GOD CREATED ALL OF THIS!

[chris62008]

I'm just curious on how anybody doesn't understand and accept this. Why not? It's the only thing that can possibly even be true. All the other "theories" out there just contradict themselves and quite frankly just talk in BIG circles. I would just like some input on how all of you think about this.

[killerweed420]

Some of us need some sort of physical evidence to make an educated decision. Reading some Harry Potter book with a bunch of fables in it just isn't enough.
You call god up on your hotline there and have him give me a jingle and see if he can't talk some sense into me.

[gypski]

I'm just curious on how anybody doesn't understand and accept this. Why not? It's the only thing that can possibly even be true. All the other "theories" out there just contradict themselves and quite frankly just talk in BIG circles. I would just like some input on how all of you think about this.

It think it all depends on who or what god is!!!!! How about Nature created all of this? :D

[frostedwonder]

Why not believe that I created all of this? Only people way back when were lucky enough to have witnessed events that we now many many years later try to believe in. I think its always going to be on a level that were not capable of understanding just yet or maybe ever. just my two bits. I wish things were concrete cause I hate guessing.

[chris62008]

Some of us need some sort of physical evidence to make an educated decision. Reading some Harry Potter book with a bunch of fables in it just isn't enough.
You call god up on your hotline there and have him give me a jingle and see if he can't talk some sense into me.

well there is no physical evidence!!! thats the thing! science and technology CANNOT explain how the universe started!!! scientists don't know how the universe started!! You have to assume that there is somthing greater than us out there.

[chris62008]

It think it all depends on who or what god is!!!!! How about Nature created all of this? :D

well what was before nature than??? nothing? well that just sounds ridicouls AND stupid...

[gypski]

well what was before nature than??? nothing? well that just sounds ridicouls AND stupid...

No? There had to be something and its certainly not some guy sitting in the sky making book on all humanity. If you believe the guy in the sky thing, where did he come from? Its nature and science will prove it. :D

[hazetwostep]

well there is no physical evidence!!! thats the thing! science and technology CANNOT explain how the universe started!!! scientists don't know how the universe started!! You have to assume that there is somthing greater than us out there.

science and technology have not explained it as of yet... though you trust your life to them everyday you deny their ultimate conclusions.

yes there are lots of unanswered questions that cannot be explained yet... the big mistake is to then assume god or a higher being is behind it. science once could not explain the sun so they assumed it was a god riding a chariot. those assumptions will lead you wrong.

[BlueBlazer]

You have to assume that there is somthing greater than us out there.

Logically speaking, it is your basic premise that is giving you problems.

Throughout the history of mankind, unexplained natural phenomenon has given rise to belief in "something greater than us". The human mind created a myriad of gods and demi-gods to explain things like lightning, daylight, night, storms, floods, earthquakes, volcanoes, etc. Eventually these were cobbled together to form pantheon gods.

Science has proven that lightning is not a god throwing a spear. Even before that happened, there were many people who did not believe in a god throwing a spear explanation without proof. Mainly because it was nonsensical.

[killerweed420]

well there is no physical evidence!!! thats the thing! science and technology CANNOT explain how the universe started!!! scientists don't know how the universe started!! You have to assume that there is somthing greater than us out there.
I don't have to assume anything. I require evidence pure and simple. Like I say if you've got that hotline to the big guy have him give me a call and we'll see if he can convince me..

[chris62008]

No? There had to be something and its certainly not some guy sitting in the sky making book on all humanity. If you believe the guy in the sky thing, where did he come from? Its nature and science will prove it. :D

you see he's not just "some guy" sitting out in the clouds.. he's GOD. Something waaaaayyyy greater than ANY human. He has always been and always will be. And you just have to accept that because frankly, theres NO other explanation. Especiallly in "science" terms.

[chris62008]

I don't have to assume anything. I require evidence pure and simple. Like I say if you've got that hotline to the big guy have him give me a call and we'll see if he can convince me..

Well than jerkoff, wheres your evidence? NO evidence you can get will prove the creation of the universe or better yet, what was BEFORE the creation of our universe. So please, SHUT UP!!!

[BlueBlazer]

This guy has to be a troll. I'm not wasting any more of my time on him.

[Blazed Deafy]

I came across this Perry guy and his information theory. I found one his premise quite interesting... DNA is not merely a molecule with a pattern; it is a code, a language, and an information storage mechanism. All codes are created by a conscious mind; there is not natural process known to science that creates coded information. Therefore DNA was designed by a Mind.

[hazetwostep]

i understand the feeling some have to want the control, purpose, and sense of "something in control- aka: god" with some "greater plan." they attribute all that doesn't currently make sense to their minds and that causes unsurity and fear to a "big brother" or "big father" in the sky looking out for their good...

i understand the innate or, to use a pun, "god-given" need others have to not blindly believe tales they are told that attempt to box in the vast enigma of life and existence to some oversimplified set of rules that are constantly changing from century to century called religion and called god.

to each their own...

[BlueBlazer]

I came across this Perry guy and his information theory. I found one his premise quite interesting... DNA is not merely a molecule with a pattern; it is a code, a language, and an information storage mechanism. All codes are created by a conscious mind; there is not natural process known to science that creates coded information. Therefore DNA was designed by a Mind.

This is merely restating the creationist platform. Life itself is a natural process that creates coded information. Perry immediately discounts that, so it is not possible to go any further in the debate. He and his minions claim it has to occur by design. Opponents to this position claim it occurs naturally. Stalemate.

For anyone interested in the scientific rebuttal of this "challenge", here is a good article by Richard Dawkins: The Information Challenge | Australian Skeptics (http://www.skeptics.com.au/publications/articles/the-information-challenge/)

[chris62008]

i understand the feeling some have to want the control, purpose, and sense of "something in control- aka: god" with some "greater plan." they attribute all that doesn't currently make sense to their minds and that causes unsurity and fear to a "big brother" or "big father" in the sky looking out for their good...

i understand the innate or, to use a pun, "god-given" need others have to not blindly believe tales they are told that attempt to box in the vast enigma of life and existence to some oversimplified set of rules that are constantly changing from century to century called religion and called god.

to each their own...

yes.. plz go on living your pointless, worthless life. Well, according to you that IS REALLY how you feel about your life? I mean you seriously have no question on to how you got here? or what happens after you die? you just think that BAM! time was created and so was everything else and it all just came together like this on accident? haha THAT IS WHAT SOUNDS STUPID!!! Not the belief of GOD. lol

[chris62008]

This is merely restating the creationist platform. Life itself is a natural process that creates coded information. Perry immediately discounts that, so it is not possible to go any further in the debate. He and his minions claim it has to occur by design. Opponents to this position claim it occurs naturally. Stalemate.

For anyone interested in the scientific rebuttal of this "challenge", here is a good article by Richard Dawkins: The Information Challenge | Australian Skeptics (http://www.skeptics.com.au/publications/articles/the-information-challenge/)

yea but the one thing is that the opponets are wrong. THE OPPONENTS believe life comes from nowhere!!! Thats incomprehensible for a human. That's why you have to accept that their is something bigger, and better than us! Once you do that you'll feel ALOT better :)

[gypski]

I came across this Perry guy and his information theory. I found one his premise quite interesting... DNA is not merely a molecule with a pattern; it is a code, a language, and an information storage mechanism. All codes are created by a conscious mind; there is not natural process known to science that creates coded information. Therefore DNA was designed by a Mind.

It must have taken billions of years for your guy in the sky to write all that code, or its simply mutation after mutation and mistakes in the development or evolution of DNA and the diversity of species. Then because he got tired of his mistakes, he destroyed them and started anew. Or from random acts of nature through the geologic activities of the planet wiping them out and natural selection let the strongest, and smartest to survive. I believe in the random and natural selection. :D

[BlueBlazer]

yea but the one thing is that the opponets are wrong. THE OPPONENTS believe life comes from nowhere!!! Thats incomprehensible for a human. That's why you have to accept that their is something bigger, and better than us! Once you do that you'll feel ALOT better :)

OK, so I have some time to waste . . . :smokin:


You have convinced me with your impeccable logic. I now believe in a higher, better being than me. I now worship Bacchus.

Because only a truly wasted god would create us. :thumbsup:

[chris62008]

OK, so I have some time to waste . . . :smokin:


You have convinced me with your impeccable logic. I now believe in a higher, better being than me. I now worship Bacchus.

Because only a truly wasted god would create us. :thumbsup:

NO! but your just being stupid. According to Einsteins theory of "General Relativity" their has to be a higher being of some sort. Einstein himself (smartest man to live probably) even concedes to a belief in God.

Now as for saying a certain religion. Well... The "Holy Bible" is the only "Holy" book to explain a CREATION of time... Others speak of their Gods being created WITHIN time... The Holy Bible speaks over a dozen times about the creation of our universe... One of my favorite quotes is Hebrews 11:3. "The universe that we detect was made from that which we cannot detect" or "the things which are seen were not made of things which do appear" simple proof of an existing God!!! It's all really good stuff. I hope you enjoyed getting schooled!

[BlueBlazer]

NO! but your just being stupid. According to Einsteins theory of "General Relativity" their has to be a higher being of some sort. Einstein himself (smartest man to live probably) even concedes to a belief in God.

Now as for saying a certain religion. Well... The "Holy Bible" is the only "Holy" book to explain a CREATION of time... Others speak of their Gods being created WITHIN time... The Holy Bible speaks over a dozen times about the creation of our universe... One of my favorite quotes is Hebrews 11:3. "The universe that we detect was made from that which we cannot detect" or "the things which are seen were not made of things which do appear" simple proof of an existing God!!! It's all really good stuff. I hope you enjoyed getting schooled!

Schooled?!? By you? Bwahahahaha.

First, Einstein did believe in god, but the theory relativity has nothing to do with god. You're thinking of the unified field theory which he was never able to prove. Second, no matter how smart he was he was just a man and obviously as subject to superstition as anyone.

I'm a preacher's kid son. Unlike you I have read the "holy" bible from cover to cover. I was born and raised in the church. I just don't believe in it. I will never believe in it and nothing an amateur like you can say will change that. Especially some selected verses your preacher told you to read . . . :cool:


BTW ~ Bacchus created time so he'd have something else to waste . . .

[mainegrown]

Schooled?!? By you? Bwahahahaha.

BTW ~ Bacchus created time so he'd have something else to waste . . .


there you go blaze.. what is that Roman?? lol

i am pagean, my family has been almost solidly druidic for the past 2000+ years.. i have not ever had that much interest in the things my mom tries to teach me, i find them kinda boring but she is fairly 'enlightened' and believes in recording the stories and teachings for dumb guys like me who dont pay attention when they are young and regret it for the rest of their lives..

so yes i do believe in a greater being.. Gia, the earth.. well thats the closest i can come to using written word because the one i was taught cant be written.. but i believe in the earth and it has been there before man. and man created 'GOD' so that he could brave the dark night. rather than embrace the natural order man decided he was GREATER than Gia and he was allowed to rule Her. now look where we are 2010 years later!!
lol if your GOD was so powerful he wouldnt allow his 'chosen' to be killed off by MY god Gia every year. GOD would protect them right?? GOD does protect the righteous, correct?? and he wont let the 'pure' fall till the revelations, right?? or is revelations already gone and we got left behind and god doesnt hear us anymore and we are all damned...ha ha ha ha. take your pick but either way GOD DOES NOT EXIST the way you see him


:D :D :D ;)

i am also about allowing people to make mistakes if they want.
have fun preaching bro
-J

[Kid Dynamite]

i am pagean, my family has been almost solidly druidic for the past 2000+ years..


Pics or it didn't happen :D i have much respect for the Druids but no family has been druidic for 2000 years. The modern druid movement has been around for 150 years at the very most, and theres no way anyone can claim that they are descended from Iron Age druids :D

apologies, it's just that im a bit of a pre-history buff and i couldn't let that one slide.

[mainegrown]

family history goes way back, but i was being kinda exaggerated to get my point across....sorry i didnt think people would be quite so literal in this line of debate... about GOD.
so my bad...but our family history goes back before the crossing to america and we were on the mayflower.. i will find the pics of the family tree for ya'll and they show us moving to america somewhere around the middle of the chart...so yes i do claim to be descended from 'iron age' druids but i cant prove it that far back but i think i got at lease 300+ provable years and many more are talked about in some of the stories i was told as a youth by my parents..
hope that clears that up a bit
-J

[BlueBlazer]

there you go blaze.. what is that Roman?? lol



lol :thumbsup:

[delusionsofNORMALity]

THE OPPONENTS believe life comes from nowhere!!! That's incomprehensible for a human. That's why you have to accept that there is something bigger, and better than us!of course there is something bigger than us. trees are bigger than us, mountains are bigger than us, the earth is bigger than us, the universe is bigger than us. is there something better than us? well, i suppose what your definition of better is. there is a great deal that is more powerful, more gentle, more seemingly rational than humanity, but do these things make them better than a man? of course not, merely different.

there is so much we do not understand, so much we will never understand. that doesn't mean we should merely stamp those things as the domain of god and refuse to investigate them, that is what we do when we blindly accept the limitations that religion places on us. simply defining those things as the works of some sentient creature beyond our comprehension is the ultimate act of surrender and an insult to the potential of humanity.


Once you do that you'll feel A LOT betterdo you really just want to feel a lot better? if so, clear your mind of all rational thought and indulge in the complacency of the idiot. life is not about merely feeling better, but striving to feel better. the struggle is the point of life.

[mainegrown]

the struggle is the point of life.

thanks you hit it right on :thumbsup:
-J

[chris62008]

do you really just want to feel a lot better? if so, clear your mind of all rational thought and indulge in the complacency of the idiot. life is not about merely feeling better, but striving to feel better. the struggle is the point of life.


I feel just fine. Matter of fact I feel GREAT, KNOWING that their IS a God. Science itself even proves it with DNA but ignorant people just ignore that fact I guess. Even some of the "smartest" naturalists will concede that, even they, don't know what created life. They are just left talking in circles about how things just magicilly create themselves. lol. Thats nonsense if you ask me. lol

[BlueBlazer]

Bacchus 1:1-9

1. On on the first day Bacchus created man, woman, animals, dinosaurs, aliens, and a bunch of other stuff 2. (days were really, really, really long back then). 3. The last thing he created was cannabis. 4. On the second day, he rested. 5. On the third day, he got ready to do some more creating right after some bong hits. 6. On the fourth day, he forgot what he was going to create. 7. On the fifth day, he rested. 8. On the sixth day, he created brownies and put some cannabis in them. 9. On the seventh day, he created music and spent the day chilling and recuperating from a long week.

Book of B yo! :D

[PureEvil760]

Well than jerkoff, wheres your evidence? NO evidence you can get will prove the creation of the universe or better yet, what was BEFORE the creation of our universe. So please, SHUT UP!!!

You can prove God's existance and that is through your own desire. The only 'evidence' to somone unwilling to do this in my opinion would be the countless abundance of spiritual books each one claiming things beyond our perception and most of them, though written by different people in different languages accross the world, share many similarities in their message.

[delusionsofNORMALity]

Even some of the "smartest" naturalists will concede that, even they, don't know what created life.admitting what you don't know is the beginning of wisdom. those who blindly claim that creation is the domain of a god can never hope to rise above their own preconceptions, they can only feign wisdom as they wallow in their ignorance.


They are just left talking in circles about how things just magically create themselves.magic? magic is the bailiwick of the religious and the "spiritually" obsessed. what may appear magical to us now might be explained tomorrow and seem mundane the following week. if the term magic can be applied to anything, it is the fantasy of gods and the miraculous nature of religion.

[hazetwostep]

yes.. plz go on living your pointless, worthless life. Well, according to you that IS REALLY how you feel about your life? I mean you seriously have no question on to how you got here? or what happens after you die? you just think that BAM! time was created and so was everything else and it all just came together like this on accident? haha THAT IS WHAT SOUNDS STUPID!!! Not the belief of GOD. lol

you judge my life as pointless? i have been happily married for five years to the love of my life who i would gladly give my life for. i have parents who have been happily married for almost forty years and a sister who i call a best friend too. i love them and cherish them more than anything. i am healthy and happy as a nurse who works with children cancer patients helping them and their families through life and death.

you are arrogant enough to say my life is pointless? if your god is as uncaring and arrogant as you, i wouldn't want to meet him. if you are delusional enough to believe that you follow a god of love, that is simply sad. life is beautiful and this is our only chance at it. i cherish and value life more than anyone who believes that life is a "test run" to get ready for "true eternity" in "heaven."

it doesn't matter how i got here, it only matter that i am here.

it doesn't matter where i go when i die because i am too busy living.

you say it doesn't make sense that there can be such order in the universe without an intelligence to create it. then who created that intelligence? keep a sound and logical thought process and you will see your argument chokes itself. if you say god just always was, then i say the universe just always was and that doesn't make any less sense.. it just doesn't take thoughtless, blind faith to believe in. you have repeatable data to stand upon.

no, science doesn't have all the answers yet, but it is objectively working toward it. religion has been defending disproved ideas for thousands of years from the earth being flat to 7 days of creation to a world-wide total flood.

[mainegrown]

not to play devils advocate but this douche has the right (1st amendment anyone??) to believe and say what he wants AS LONG AS it does not interfere with the life liberty or happiness of others...
and we dont have to listen to his b.s.
also can any of you prove there ISNT a god??
remember the human mind is way more powerful than modern science can quantify right now and we could just MAKE a god for ourselves with OUR minds...lol
have fuun
-J

[psychocat]

well there is no physical evidence!!! thats the thing! science and technology CANNOT explain how the universe started!!! scientists don't know how the universe started!! You have to assume that there is somthing greater than us out there.

Never assume to know anything, a lack of explanation cannot be replaced by fantasy.
As for something greater than us, that's pretty much a forgone conclusion unless you subscribe to the arrogance of humans in believing that we are the peak of stellar intelligence and I don't.

[chris62008]

you judge my life as pointless? i have been happily married for five years to the love of my life who i would gladly give my life for. i have parents who have been happily married for almost forty years and a sister who i call a best friend too. i love them and cherish them more than anything. i am healthy and happy as a nurse who works with children cancer patients helping them and their families through life and death.

you are arrogant enough to say my life is pointless? if your god is as uncaring and arrogant as you, i wouldn't want to meet him. if you are delusional enough to believe that you follow a god of love, that is simply sad. life is beautiful and this is our only chance at it. i cherish and value life more than anyone who believes that life is a "test run" to get ready for "true eternity" in "heaven."

it doesn't matter how i got here, it only matter that i am here.

it doesn't matter where i go when i die because i am too busy living.

you say it doesn't make sense that there can be such order in the universe without an intelligence to create it. then who created that intelligence? keep a sound and logical thought process and you will see your argument chokes itself. if you say god just always was, then i say the universe just always was and that doesn't make any less sense.. it just doesn't take thoughtless, blind faith to believe in. you have repeatable data to stand upon.

no, science doesn't have all the answers yet, but it is objectively working toward it. religion has been defending disproved ideas for thousands of years from the earth being flat to 7 days of creation to a world-wide total flood.

yo man stop being so defensive. lol. I never called your life worthless.. YOU DID!!!!! Believing that you are just here, to be here, is totally blunt. You might as well say "MY LIFE IS WORTHLESS!!!" and that is what you said. That theres really NO reason for us to live... so our lives our WORTHLESS??? hmmm I THINK NOT!!!!! :)

[psychocat]

To be brutally honest I do believe our individual lives to be a tiny little thing on a stellar scale.

[apocolips31]

admitting what you don't know is the beginning of wisdom. those who blindly claim that creation is the domain of a god can never hope to rise above their own preconceptions, they can only feign wisdom as they wallow in their ignorance.



I think you are forgetting something here, that believers such as my self admit to not knowing everything but, the one thing we do know is that their is a greater power then ourselves. The people who are truly ignorant are the ones who believe science can explain everything to them.
Well what is science? It is our PERCEPTION of the way things work in the world around us. Science is nothing more than a way of man to blind himself of the truth and feel powerful, when in fact the truth is we will never know everything, in our present state anyways. Science is always speaking of something new or unknown that the are on the verge of discovering. What does that discovery do? It makes them realize that their is another variable they forgot to put in the "equation" of the universe you know, then they look for a new thing to say is creating theses forces or acts. It is a merry go round their is never a end. If you believe in string theory then you must know that their seems to be something always smaller that we didn't know existed. Another thing science puts a label on to feel in control of the universe around us,but really they know a lot less about the world around us than we really think. If you want to believe in science so much, science it self has spoke of different dimensions that we can not perceive. You know why because we ARE limited. We are limited to our bodies and our minds, OUR way of perceiving the world around us.

[delusionsofNORMALity]

I think you are forgetting something here, that believers such as my self admit to not knowing everything but, the one thing we do know is that there is a greater power than ourselves. The people who are truly ignorant are the ones who believe science can explain everything to them.i have forgotten nothing. given an infinite amount of time, we might very well be able to understand the infinite number of things we do not now understand. of course we don't have all of eternity to make those discoveries and will have to satisfy ourselves with the little time we have, but in order to understand anything we must first be willing to start the search. blind belief in that sentient "greater power" admits defeat before we even begin. most all deities have that one thing in common, their ways are mysterious and unknowable by their very nature. admitting to that unknowable force is the first step in blinding ourselves to what is knowable - everything.


Science is always speaking of something new or unknown that the are on the verge of discovering. What does that discovery do? It makes them realize that their is another variable they forgot to put in the "equation" of the universe you know, then they look for a new thing to say is creating theses forces or acts. It is a merry go round there is never a end.it seems you understand it, but the blinders of faith will not allow you to appreciate a very simple truth - there is never an end to discovery. with each new bit of understanding more questions reveal themselves. there is no final solution as there is to be found in religion, no simple answer to end all questions. that is the nature of scientific inquiry.

[BlueBlazer]

Good answer delusionsofNORMALity. :thumbsup:

Religion is anti knowledge. It is about coming to grips with the death fear and feeling better about things. Nothing wrong with that if it keeps you from popping your cork, but it doesn't make it true.

[BlueBlazer]

...remember the human mind is way more powerful than modern science can quantify right now and we could just MAKE a god for ourselves with OUR minds...lol
have fuun
-J

There is an excellent trilogy of books that deals with just that subject. It's called The Hammer and the Cross by Harry Harrison. It's about the clash between the gods of the Norse and Yahweh in post-Roman Britain. I highly recommend it, but not necessarily for Christians as it would probably make them angry.

[delusionsofNORMALity]

Religion is anti knowledge.the lessons we can learn from religion are of an ethical nature and, while remembering that morality is not the sole domain of religion, they should not be discounted entirely. the virtues of charity, sacrifice and duty that are extolled throughout many sacred texts should be used to temper the harsh realities of science. though such virtues may be derived from other sources, for many religion is the main example through which their morality is formed. damning religion entirely for the abuses and ignorance of the few is as disingenuous as refusing science for its clinical outlook.

[chris62008]

the lessons we can learn from religion are of an ethical nature and, while remembering that morality is not the sole domain of religion, they should not be discounted entirely. the virtues of charity, sacrifice and duty that are extolled throughout many sacred texts should be used to temper the harsh realities of science. though such virtues may be derived from other sources, for many religion is the main example through which their morality is formed. damning religion entirely for the abuses and ignorance of the few is as disingenuous as refusing science for its clinical outlook.

say what you want and try and hide behind all your big words. but simply put. SCIENCE PROVES there is something that created us... you can trace it all the way back to DNA... and YES, DNA WAS CREATED, not just magically appeared. Most of the smartest and famous scientist will even come to grips... THIS WAS NO ACCIDENT... WE WERE CREATED!!!

A wise man knows he knows nothing! I will leave you atheists with that!!!

[hazetwostep]

yo man stop being so defensive. lol. I never called your life worthless.. YOU DID!!!!! Believing that you are just here, to be here, is totally blunt. You might as well say "MY LIFE IS WORTHLESS!!!" and that is what you said. That theres really NO reason for us to live... so our lives our WORTHLESS??? hmmm I THINK NOT!!!!! :)

well then since i did not say my life is worthless since that is the furthest thing from what i feel... you should re-read what i wrote and try again on your assumptions. i didn't say there is no reason to live. i gave you many reasons why i believe life is the greatest thing.

to assume life is worthless because we don't live forever... i don't follow your logic at all. i guess belief is a better word since it is not logical but purely emotional.

[delusionsofNORMALity]

THIS WAS NO ACCIDENT... WE WERE CREATED!!!so we have come full circle, as such discussions always do. that a mind designed to recognize patterns might find patterns all around is taken as proof of some intelligent designer. our hubris, in anthropomorphizing the world around us, leads us to imagine a sentience behind all of the variables that have led to life. if these fantasies were not so wide spread they would be considered nothing more than the delusions of a tin foil clad conspiracy nut.

[BlueBlazer]

the lessons we can learn from religion are of an ethical nature and, while remembering that morality is not the sole domain of religion, they should not be discounted entirely. the virtues of charity, sacrifice and duty that are extolled throughout many sacred texts should be used to temper the harsh realities of science. though such virtues may be derived from other sources, for many religion is the main example through which their morality is formed. damning religion entirely for the abuses and ignorance of the few is as disingenuous as refusing science for its clinical outlook.

I didn't mean that religion had no knowledge, however, moral knowledge is something that every thinking being has anyway IMHO. Religion encourages it's followers to not let anything interfere with their faith. Passively, they encourage followers to ignore any information that gives doubts (i.e. - practically anything not church approved). More aggressive practices involve trying to ban certain books, music, arts, etc.

[chris62008]

I didn't mean that religion had no knowledge, however, moral knowledge is something that every thinking being has anyway IMHO. Religion encourages it's followers to not let anything interfere with their faith. Passively, they encourage followers to ignore any information that gives doubts (i.e. - practically anything not church approved). More aggressive practices involve trying to ban certain books, music, arts, etc.

Well buddy I have not banned ANYTHING AT ALL in my knowledge. NO BOOKS, MUSIC, ARTS, etc. and neither did guys like Einstein, Newton, Yockey, etc. ALL came up with pretty much the same conclusion... WE WERE CREATED... According to "natural laws" of science that we LIVE by today, it's techniclly IMPOSSIBLE for this to be some random sort of accident... DNA was CREATED and this universe was "fine tuned" SO much that it is IMPOSSIBLE for it to be some sort of random act... IT IS HUMANLY IMPOSSIBLE FOR THIS UNIVERSE and DNA to create itself!!!! You might wanna look some of this stuff up before trying to argue about it... Just face the music all you atheists... there IS something "greater" than yourself out there... SCIENCE even proves it :)

[BlueBlazer]

Well buddy I have not banned ANYTHING AT ALL in my knowledge. NO BOOKS, MUSIC, ARTS, etc. and neither did guys like Einstein, Newton, Yockey, etc. ALL came up with pretty much the same conclusion... WE WERE CREATED... According to "natural laws" of science that we LIVE by today, it's techniclly IMPOSSIBLE for this to be some random sort of accident... DNA was CREATED and this universe was "fine tuned" SO much that it is IMPOSSIBLE for it to be some sort of random act... IT IS HUMANLY IMPOSSIBLE FOR THIS UNIVERSE and DNA to create itself!!!! You might wanna look some of this stuff up before trying to argue about it... Just face the music all you atheists... there IS something "greater" than yourself out there... SCIENCE even proves it :)

First of all, I never said you personally banned anything, however your religion is another matter. I won't try to reason with you any further, because you aren't interested in reason. You are either a completely gone zealot or a troll. Either way there is nothing to be gained.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P47OC439x88

[chris62008]

First of all, I never said you personally banned anything, however your religion is another matter. I won't try to reason with you any further, because you aren't interested in reason. You are either a completely gone zealot or a troll. Either way there is nothing to be gained.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P47OC439x88


HAHA!!! I WIN!!! I FINALLY WIN!!! I will definitly remember this moment for a while!!!!! It just feels so good! I gotta celebrate :jointsmile:

[mainegrown]

uh huh... u win.... cause everyone thinks you are being number then a pounded thumb. great victory to remember.
-J

[BlueBlazer]

uh huh... u win.... cause everyone thinks you are being number then a pounded thumb. great victory to remember.
-J

Trolls get a weird sort of satisfaction. How long can they string folks along.

I get satisfaction from allowing them to demonstrate their idiocy. I figured a long time ago he was either a troll or he was actually about 10 years old. His last post confirmed one or the other. ;)

[delusionsofNORMALity]

I figured a long time ago he was either a troll or he was actually about 10 years old. His last post confirmed one or the other. ;)but the hope always remains that such folks will actually come up with something new. they seldom do, but it's always worth a shot.

the strangest part of this for me is that i'm actually defending religion on another forum and i keep confusing the two threads. every time i post in either i have to read back to remember where i am. yes, i am a bit psychotic.:D

[psychocat]

but the hope always remains that such folks will actually come up with something new. they seldom do, but it's always worth a shot.

the strangest part of this for me is that i'm actually defending religion on another forum and i keep confusing the two threads. every time i post in either i have to read back to remember where i am. yes, i am a bit psychotic.:D

Sometimes it's fun to play devils advocate :D:cool:

[chris62008]

Trolls get a weird sort of satisfaction. How long can they string folks along.

I get satisfaction from allowing them to demonstrate their idiocy. I figured a long time ago he was either a troll or he was actually about 10 years old. His last post confirmed one or the other. ;)

I already told you that I am 20. But the reason I said that, my not so smart freind, is because you lack to bring ANYTHING somewhat resourcful with what you say. I'm backing EVERYTHING I say up with facts. You and your posse on the other hand... ehhh not so much! hehe... You guys are literlly backing out of this debate... CUZ YOUVE BEEN HAD!!!

Let's just put it this way. There is no theory in the history of science that has more holes, problems or detractors than Neo-Darwinism. Itâ??s the most troubled theory in all of science. The best evidence for this comes from a most curious place: Stephen Meyerâ??s recent book â??Signature in the Cell.â?� I suggest that you and your posse of atheists go and READ the book so you can get some basic knowlege of what DNA really is and how it works.

Just like the Berlin Wall back in '89, Darwinism will FALL in the near future. It will FINALLY be silenced FOR GOOD.

"The wall will fall. Beliefs become reality."

[wingedson]

Track down some Egyptian texts on Metaphysics. It's what Christianity, Catholicism, Judaism, and Islam are based upon. Those folks had enough information about the formation of the universe, that we are still using their Mathematics, Astronomy, and Physics concepts to this day. Please become informed, then decide what you think is going on, then get more informed, dump your previous notions and enjoy the ride of conscious, unending, evolution!

[BlueBlazer]

...

That's what you have to add to this. Nothing. Troll somewhere else.

[mainegrown]

hey at least he is only on this one thread... keep him here, cause if i find him spamming my log im gonna flip...
and 20 y.o chris... wake the fuck up man... god aint real he is a figment of your imaination... the human mind is VERY good at seeing patterns... like one in OUR DNA...
-J

[Richol]

For all those who dont believe in God give me some good explanations why you dont, and ill give you some reasons i do.

Sit in a room where no one will bother you open your heart to Jesus and talk to him thats his number just pray, i've felt his holy spirit every time i pray every time i sing his song or simply just the act of sharing his word.\

Whats the feeling you ask well for me its the warmest most loving and most joyest feeling in the world and before anyone chimes in with their two cents about how this feelings can be from something else you try.

Plus everyone who dont believe in the Bible or God just cuz it was written along time ago, your basically telling me that everything in the history books didnt happen just because it took place before our time, I mean theres alot of people who saw Jesus and witnessed his miracles, but i guess there will always be haters n those tricked by satan him self

[gypski]

Religion....a carry over from the Dark Ages or latent human superstition that something has to be greater then they are. And, they are correct. Its the physical universe, not some [I]guy in the sky[I]watching and recording and creating every and anything. From the state of the world, one would have to believe they were a psychopath to create and observe constantly a world like ours!!!!! :D

[chris62008]

That's what you have to add to this. Nothing. Troll somewhere else.

and where is your response brainiac? what are you adding to this?? NOTHING but your "smart aleck" remarks thats what!!! I know you feel backed in a corner because you cannot come up with ONE good scientific reason to support your thesis!!!!! instead of bashing what I say,, maybe you can come up with a counter-argument?... o wait,, you already tried that... THANK YOU, COME AGAIN!

[chris62008]

hey at least he is only on this one thread... keep him here, cause if i find him spamming my log im gonna flip...
and 20 y.o chris... wake the fuck up man... god aint real he is a figment of your imaination... the human mind is VERY good at seeing patterns... like one in OUR DNA...
-J

I didnt know that proving atheist all over the world wrong was considered "spamming"!!! darn.. i think i might want to find a better job than..

listen here buddy, I"M the one whos awake.. YOUR sleeping... Time for you to read up on SCIENCE and awaken that brain of yours,, cuz by ALL means.. SCIENCE PROVES A GOD (or creator)... I mean, if you can find a code that is created by a natural process than you can disprove my theory... If you can't, well than your stumped... like ALL atheists!

[BlueBlazer]

and where is your response brainiac? what are you adding to this?? NOTHING but your "smart aleck" remarks thats what!!! I know you feel backed in a corner because you cannot come up with ONE good scientific reason to support your thesis!!!!! instead of bashing what I say,, maybe you can come up with a counter-argument?... o wait,, you already tried that... THANK YOU, COME AGAIN!

Counter arguments don't work with trolls. I noticed you haven't even disputed that you are one. I've already presented logic which you ignore and you haven't addressed even once the questions I've asked you. You just make claims, without a shred of backup, with the sole intent of agitating. Again, prime behavior of a troll.

You're wasting your time here troll.

[BlueBlazer]

For all those who dont believe in God give me some good explanations why you dont, and ill give you some reasons i do.

I don't believe in god because I've never seen a shred of hard evidence. I'm glad you find solace in your faith. I can't have that faith because I'm a born skeptic. I require proof and there is none.

Besides, even if there was a god, doesn't mean that it's your god does it?

[chris62008]

Counter arguments don't work with trolls. I noticed you haven't even disputed that you are one. I've already presented logic which you ignore and you haven't addressed even once the questions I've asked you. You just make claims, without a shred of backup, with the sole intent of agitating. Again, prime behavior of a troll.

You're wasting your time here troll.

STILL no counter-argument??... I'm starting to get suspicious on who's REALLY the troll in here... lol *shakes head while laughing*

[BlueBlazer]

STILL no counter-argument??... I'm starting to get suspicious on who's REALLY the troll in here... lol *shakes head while laughing*

Answer my question. Have you ever read the entire bible?

[mainegrown]

i have a couple times and i find it is a great read...full of wisdom and most of the rules that it outlines make sense if you can get past all the god-bullshit....
only thing that i dont get is how people can think that a book written by a MAN could be taken as the word of GOD???
chris answer.. how can you prove there IS a god... scientifically please bro.. no more of this DNA BS either.. i looked into that and almost everyone in the field seems to think that that is a big ass load of BS written by someone with an agenda to push.. not an impartial third party.
prove that if there is a god that it is YOURS and not mine and also prove that you are not a troll by doing so in a non-confrontational manner please..
-J

[chris62008]

i have a couple times and i find it is a great read...full of wisdom and most of the rules that it outlines make sense if you can get past all the god-bullshit....
only thing that i dont get is how people can think that a book written by a MAN could be taken as the word of GOD???
chris answer.. how can you prove there IS a god... scientifically please bro.. no more of this DNA BS either.. i looked into that and almost everyone in the field seems to think that that is a big ass load of BS written by someone with an agenda to push.. not an impartial third party.
prove that if there is a god that it is YOURS and not mine and also prove that you are not a troll by doing so in a non-confrontational manner please..
-J

what do you mean none of that DNA BS?? how is DNA BS?? DNA is purely scientific and obviously is a code. Well.. if YOU can tell me one NATURAL PROCESS that creates coded information than you can discount EVERYTHING I said.

[chris62008]

Answer my question. Have you ever read the entire bible?

not entirely from front to back.. however, I have gone over the entire bible and I have a pretty good amount of knowlege on it

[mainegrown]

i think that trying to say that DNA is a code that was ARTIFICIALLY created is bs... there are many codes that are naturally created. look up info on the Fibonacci sequence and tell me that there are not naturally created codes and i wont talk anymore..
many things in nature SEEM to be 'created' because they have a sense of 'order'.. it is just that doing things the 'right' way often seems to the human mind to be 'created' because it isnt the way WE would do it but it works better than the way we WOULD do it so we think that it HAS to be a 'greater mind'/'supreme being' when in reality the 'perfect nature' is just the result of millions of years of trial and error..
so i can say that DNA being a 'created code' is bs because i cant see any proof that it was more than the result of many errors and cullings.. and the end result is US!!
and if dna were to be 'created' by god.. and god created us in his image and he gave us dna but he also gave dna to all of the other plants and animals then how can we claim to be the end all be all greatest thing.. and how can you think that you have the right to do anything to our mother the earth?? if your god created the earth and you believe that your god is so powerful then why is there direct evidence of evolution.. in the form of fossils and such of EXTINCT animals that died out because they were NOT perfect..
sorry if my thoughts are a bit disorganized i am testing a friends crop and its GREAT
-J

[sarah louise]

I'm just curious on how anybody doesn't understand and accept this. Why not? It's the only thing that can possibly even be true. All the other "theories" out there just contradict themselves and quite frankly just talk in BIG circles.

I think you fail to realise that the Christian concept of 'God' is also a theory and no less full of contradiction than any other theory of existence.

Maybe the reason I don't, as you say, 'understand and accept' the Christian creation myth is because I did not have it, or any other dogma, rammed down my throat during during my formative years.

I think that is a distinct possibility.

[mainegrown]

I think you fail to realise that the Christian concept of 'God' is also a theory and no less full of contradiction than any other theory of existence.

Maybe the reason I don't, as you say, 'understand and accept' the Christian creation myth is because I did not have it, or any other dogma, rammed down my throat during during my formative years.

I think that is a distinct possibility.
same here maam... no one forced shit down my throat and i feel just fine about it.. my family is all about doing what YOU believe in not what they think you SHOULD believe in. i happen to share their views but they let me come to that conclusion by MYSELF.. thank you very much..
-J

[chris62008]

i think that trying to say that DNA is a code that was ARTIFICIALLY created is bs... there are many codes that are naturally created. look up info on the Fibonacci sequence and tell me that there are not naturally created codes and i wont talk anymore..

-J

so when you say "Fibonacci sequence" Im guessing your relating to bee waggles and tree rings for the most part and yes! your right,these things are most certainly codes. but they derive from DNA, and therefore don't count as examples of naturally occurring codes, since DNA has not been proven to have a naturalistic origin.

[wingedson]

so when you say "Fibonacci sequence" Im guessing your relating to bee waggles and tree rings for the most part and yes! your right,these things are most certainly codes. but they derive from DNA, and therefore don't count as examples of naturally occurring codes, since DNA has not been proven to have a naturalistic origin.

Do you know the origin of Jehovah? Jah, or the mighty Lord and God from the various Bibles that have been edited by no less than King James of England, came from a time when the Jewish folk were separated into various tribes throughout the desert. Jehovah was just one of many Gods. The whole "monotheistic" conquering Lord who is the one and only God is a misinterpretation of some Egyptian texts, misread by Greek scholars, then turned into a hybrid religion of the Roman/Pagan Christians. It was a combination of so many elements, all of which are derived from a polytheistic religious base. What if Jesus is actually the story of an Egyptian Pharaoh, and his story was stolen and mutilated to fit the pantheon of a conquering Roman war machine?

Here's a postulation for you.....

What if Nature is the supreme being? What if Nature encoded into Humanity, this concept of God, to ensure the survival of a race, that without some sort a Higher Power to reconcile with, would destroy themselves entirely? What if some people have this code deeply engraved in their DNA through the ages, and others have evolved differently. Neither is wrong, Neither is right. Both are just part of a whole. One side ensures technological advancement increases, along with scientific achievement, and the other attempts to bring an internal awareness, along with a rooted base in worshiping life, and being compassionate. Of course these two examples are very open ended, and black & white. The grey area is much larger in the Human species.

[BlueBlazer]

so when you say "Fibonacci sequence" Im guessing your relating to bee waggles and tree rings for the most part and yes! your right,these things are most certainly codes. but they derive from DNA, and therefore don't count as examples of naturally occurring codes, since DNA has not been proven to have a naturalistic origin.

Saying "DNA" has to be created is merely a variation on "the universe" has to be created. There is no proof that it was created, just the opinion. I don't have to disprove this claim, because it has not been proven to anyone's satisfaction except those who want it to be true.

[BlueBlazer]

not entirely from front to back.. however, I have gone over the entire bible and I have a pretty good amount of knowlege on it

I guess I knew that would be your answer. How can you run your life and all that you believe from a book you've never read in it's entirety?!? It's mind boggling.

You have a pretty good amount of knowledge on it?!? You've gone over the entire bible? As opposed to reading it? What does that even mean? Oh, your pastor has gone over it for you. So where does your certainty come from? I'll tell you. Indoctrination and brain washing. Really read the entire book from cover to cover and you will experience a lot of doubt. Trust me on this.

Or you can keep to the 10 or 12 bible versus your pastor had you memorize to bother non-christians with. Whatever.

[delusionsofNORMALity]

Really read the entire book from cover to cover and you will experience a lot of doubt.after having read the sacred texts of many of the world's religions, i have found they all have one thing in common. they are all as open to interpretation as any other writing. even the language they are written in is merely a translation (an interpretation) from another language in most cases. though a christian may claim his faith is based on the words of the bible or a muslim may cite the koran as the impetus for his chosen way of life, it is always someone else's interpretation they are placing their trust in. merely reading the words is not enough, one must be able to suspend their disbelief in order to fully accept what we all know is nothing more than a collection of the words of man. the claims of burning bushes, mysterious golden plates and divine inspiration are merely tools we use to allow us to suspend our disbelief and immerse ourselves in the improbable.

our friend chris has obviously done quite a good job of suspending his disbelief. he has done such a good job of it that he is able to transfer his resulting faith from the ethical disciplines of religion to the more tangible areas of scientific endeavor. he is willing to invest himself in the improbable and rather contradictory concept that the appearance of code-like behavior implies a sentient force behind the creation of our dna. he disingenuously asks us to cite any example of code that is not engineered by a higher intelligence, but we must use his definition of code and he will always have a way out by merely stating that all of nature is a part of the creation of his god. there are codes within the songs of birds and the petals of flowers because a code is nothing more than the representation of concepts we understand couched in symbolism we are unaccustomed to, but these instances are easily discounted by the insistence of the faithful that all this is the work of the ultimate architect.


10 or 12 bible versus your pastor had you memorizetheology is the work of a lifetime and simple minds will never study more of it than they must. our religions have been centuries in the making and to expect anyone but a devoted theologian to do much more than memorize a few passages of scripture is asking too much. the bible is a confusing mash of allegory and symbolism that such simple minds must have interpreted for them by those who claim to have studied and come to some limited understanding of those texts.

belief is not understanding, it is acceptance.

[BlueBlazer]

theology is the work of a lifetime and simple minds will never study more of it than they must. our religions have been centuries in the making and to expect anyone but a devoted theologian to do much more than memorize a few passages of scripture is asking too much. the bible is a confusing mash of allegory and symbolism that such simple minds must have interpreted for them by those who claim to have studied and come to some limited understanding of those texts.

belief is not understanding, it is acceptance.

I'm not asking for chris to be a theologian. I'm asking and expecting that he at least read the text that his religion he so ardently defends and advances is based on.

You're right that belief is not understanding. It is surrender.

[chris62008]

I guess I knew that would be your answer. How can you run your life and all that you believe from a book you've never read in it's entirety?!? It's mind boggling.

You have a pretty good amount of knowledge on it?!? You've gone over the entire bible? As opposed to reading it? What does that even mean? Oh, your pastor has gone over it for you. So where does your certainty come from? I'll tell you. Indoctrination and brain washing. Really read the entire book from cover to cover and you will experience a lot of doubt. Trust me on this.

Or you can keep to the 10 or 12 bible versus your pastor had you memorize to bother non-christians with. Whatever.

dude I don't even go to church. Don't "assume" that some pastor or preach is putting these thoughts in my head. lol. I havent been to chuch in over ten years bud. These are my PERSONAL beliefs, and studys that I have conducted. Science is here to prove atheists wrong! AND IT IS!!!

"we are the arm of God, and science is the blade. If we are wise and swift, we shall quell this heracy without incident!" chris62008

[chris62008]

. he disingenuously asks us to cite any example of code that is not engineered by a higher intelligence, but we must use his definition of code .


1)Code is defined as communication between an encoder (a â??writerâ?� or â??speakerâ?�) and a decoder (a â??readerâ?� or â??listenerâ?�) using agreed upon symbols.

2)DNA's definition as a literal code (and not a figurative one) is nearly universal in the entire body of biological literature since the 1960's.

[BlueBlazer]

dude I don't even go to church. Don't "assume" that some pastor or preach is putting these thoughts in my head. lol. I havent been to chuch in over ten years bud. These are my PERSONAL beliefs, and studys that I have conducted. Science is here to prove atheists wrong! AND IT IS!!!

"we are the arm of God, and science is the blade. If we are wise and swift, we shall quell this heracy without incident!" chris62008

Well how about that. Let's see here, 1) You don't go to church. 2) You do you own research and base your beliefs on that. 3) Your personal beliefs are contained in a book that you have never bothered to research fully.

Your "science" is a sham and a mockery of science. Your beliefs are not fully researched by your own admission. Yet you throw stones at those who don't believe as you do? Interesting . . . and rather trollish. :D

[chris62008]

Well how about that. Let's see here, 1) You don't go to church. 2) You do you own research and base your beliefs on that. 3) Your personal beliefs are contained in a book that you have never bothered to research fully.

Your "science" is a sham and a mockery of science. Your beliefs are not fully researched by your own admission. Yet you throw stones at those who don't believe as you do? Interesting . . . and rather trollish. :D

well well... No real counter argument here.. mainly just trollish stuff lol... you cannot prove the theory wrong so now your trying to bash me... thats whack! lol

[BlueBlazer]

well well... No real counter argument here.. mainly just trollish stuff lol... you cannot prove the theory wrong so now your trying to bash me... thats whack! lol

Troll behavior 101. Step 3, "poor me" . . . :cool:

[Islandborn]

Yikes....you guys got your own miniature Jihad going on in this thread...well good luck and god bless, or allah akbar, or peace, or whatever....kill each other for once and let the folks that could care less either way continue to stack money and chill. Love Jesus....awsome dude. Wanna be a muslim.....party on. Wanna worship a character from Avatar.....sweet. JUST KEEP IT TO YOURSELF.:hippy:

Nobody is wrong when it comes to higher powers.

[mainegrown]

good to see some common sense there Islandborn..
always good to see you weigh in on these lil disputes though i doubt if either of these two are gonna let it go.. lol
-MG

[BlueBlazer]

Yikes....you guys got your own miniature Jihad going on in this thread...well good luck and god bless, or allah akbar, or peace, or whatever....kill each other for once and let the folks that could care less either way continue to stack money and chill. Love Jesus....awsome dude. Wanna be a muslim.....party on. Wanna worship a character from Avatar.....sweet. JUST KEEP IT TO YOURSELF.:hippy:

Nobody is wrong when it comes to higher powers.


Go on with your bad self and stack money and chill. I'm not stopping you. I have no desire to kill anyone. This is all amusing to me, there's no anger in it from my side. :D

[Blazed Deafy]

It must have taken billions of years for your guy in the sky to write all that code, or its simply mutation after mutation and mistakes in the development or evolution of DNA and the diversity of species. Then because he got tired of his mistakes, he destroyed them and started anew. Or from random acts of nature through the geologic activities of the planet wiping them out and natural selection let the strongest, and smartest to survive. I believe in the random and natural selection. :D


Can you explain how the random selection in evolution works?

Personally i dont give a flying fark what, when, why, where, which, and how WE got here. why bother? dont yall realize that everyone of us is DARN unique and precious since we come from A SPERM and AN EGG. Most of males constantly jack off everyday and billions billions of sperms swim n seek for the egg in vain. Every sperm wasted could be you yet its someone else Even ovaries ovulate every month. Somehow every one of us came to the world for a reason. oneof billions of gametes. the chances of coming to life is slim def shows everyone of you is unique. just something to think abt. i rather to live a life. i abide the motto: life is a trip: self-explanatory :jointsmile::thumbsup:

[hazetwostep]

blueblazer... funny video link! good stuff...

as far as arguing with religious folks who use logic like "i don't understand this so it must be god..." there is no reasoning with them. they are essentially the same people who said science was crazy by claiming that the earth is not the center of the universe, that the sun overhead was a god riding a chariot, that jesus christ was coming again in the year 2000, etc...

i have learned to let them live in their constricted little worlds of narrow rules and views that make them feel safe about the fact that death is coming for them and there is no way around... let's make up a fairytale about a nice place in the sky that makes us not feel scared.

the greatest hypocrisy is that most of these people say they believe and follow jesus and by reading through their posts i can clearly see that they understand NOTHING about what jesus was about.

this is from over twenty years of formerly following christianity which led me to attend seminary which led me to actually study the bible for myself and not just listen to people tell me on sunday's what it said. 3 years of seminary and studying the bible clearly led me to see that it is just another attempt of humankind to understand the unknown.

it has good ideas like "love your neighbor as yourself" and crappy ideas like the many places it condones slavery and sexist treatment of women. if you give it a true study, you will see it is the work of humankind through and through.

[BlueBlazer]

this is from over twenty years of formerly following christianity which led me to attend seminary which led me to actually study the bible for myself and not just listen to people tell me on sunday's what it said. 3 years of seminary and studying the bible clearly led me to see that it is just another attempt of humankind to understand the unknown.

I'm with you man. My father was a preacher and I grew up in the church. I've read the bible cover to cover more than once. It would greatly disturb many "New Testament" Christians to actually read what the Old Testament god was like.

You're also right that it's useless to argue with those folks who believe in god. I just can't help myself sometimes.

[hazetwostep]

my fellow PK blueblazer! i knew i liked you for some reason... haha.. we share a bond that nobody could understand who isn't a PK.

i can't help myself either even though trying to reason with most religious people is like trying to knock down a mountain by beating your head against it! i use to fully buy into that whole scene so there is a part of me that believes there is hope for reason to win out over dogma. if most christian arguments had a source references it would look like this:

Source
1. My pastor
2. It just makes sense to me
3. My pastor
4. Random Bible verse taken out of context from a book that i "know" is god's word because it says it is (beautiful circular logic)
5. Random Christian website
6. Sunday school class
7. Grandma told me
8. My pastor

it still amazes me that people (like i use to) believe so strongly in something they never really look into very much themselves. i have read through the whole bible cover to cover 3 or 4 times but that is not even all that valuable. since it is a collection of books and letters it is much better to read them side by side and not one after the other. that is when all the flaws and wholes and inconsistencies really shine! once you read the 4 gospels side by side comparing parallel stories to each other you will be amazed at all the contradictions in a supposed flawless book!!!

comparing the god of the old testament and the god of the new testament truly is amazing too like you said. "I am the LORD, I change not." Malachi 3:6. the way people try to justify the OT god and the NT god with this scripture is baffling!

[BlueBlazer]

my fellow PK blueblazer! i knew i liked you for some reason... haha.. we share a bond that nobody could understand who isn't a PK.

Amen to that (pardon my pun). :D

I was fortunate to be brought up in the more "intellectual" as opposed to "emotional" approach to religion. My father was a Presbyterian minister.

He believed in his god, but he was very open minded towards my doubts and even helped me study other religions. I had friends who had the opposite and I always felt real sorry for them.

Being a PK in a small town gives you notoriety that isn't always welcome, but it opened the doors to quite a few young ladies whose mothers and fathers didn't fear a thing from the PK. Heh heh heh

[hazetwostep]

hahahaha... heard you on the blazer!:thumbsup:

[chris62008]

blueblazer... funny video link! good stuff...

as far as arguing with religious folks who use logic like "i don't understand this so it must be god..." there is no reasoning with them. they are essentially the same people who said science was crazy by claiming that the earth is not the center of the universe, that the sun overhead was a god riding a chariot, that jesus christ was coming again in the year 2000, etc...

i have learned to let them live in their constricted little worlds of narrow rules and views that make them feel safe about the fact that death is coming for them and there is no way around... let's make up a fairytale about a nice place in the sky that makes us not feel scared.

the greatest hypocrisy is that most of these people say they believe and follow jesus and by reading through their posts i can clearly see that they understand NOTHING about what jesus was about.

this is from over twenty years of formerly following christianity which led me to attend seminary which led me to actually study the bible for myself and not just listen to people tell me on sunday's what it said. 3 years of seminary and studying the bible clearly led me to see that it is just another attempt of humankind to understand the unknown.

it has good ideas like "love your neighbor as yourself" and crappy ideas like the many places it condones slavery and sexist treatment of women. if you give it a true study, you will see it is the work of humankind through and through.

The funny thing is you cannot PROVE with science that there isn't a God, and I can PROVE there is! ... with DNA for example!

[BlueBlazer]

The funny thing is you cannot PROVE with science that there isn't a God, and I can PROVE there is! ... with DNA for example!

What's that? Did I hear a troll just now? :cool:

[hazetwostep]

The funny thing is you cannot PROVE with science that there isn't a God, and I can PROVE there is! ... with DNA for example!

you can prove it??? wow, i stand corrected then in that case but i am surprised that you are not a bit more famous for finding hard scientific data like that and not just personal opinion like most religious people argue with statements like "wow, this is so complex then it must have been made by god."

could you explain a bit about DNA to me and how you found something that no other scientist has found yet??? if they did i am sure it would be a big deal and have headlines on every newspaper and news channel saying something like...

"Scientist Found DNA 100% Proves God Exists! The great debate is now done!"

must have missed that one! ((cough cough))

TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL

now did that magic DNA also tell you which religion's god is the one real god??? christian, muslim, wicka, etc??? you have me hanging on the edge of my intellectual seat! :rasta:

[BlueBlazer]

now did that magic DNA also tell you which religion's god is the one real god??? christian, muslim, wicka, etc??? you have me hanging on the edge of my intellectual seat! :rasta:

I told you man, DNA has proven Bacchus is the real god.

Humans are hardwired in their DNA to want to party down and Bacchus is the party god, so . . .




As soon as I publish my findings, you'll see some pretty interesting headlines. :stoned:

[chris62008]

Today, many religious denominations accept that biological evolution has produced the diversity of living things over billions of years of Earthâ??s history. Many have issued statements observing that evolution and the tenets of their faiths are compatible. Scientists and theologians have written eloquently about their awe and wonder at the history of the universe and of life on this planet, explaining that they see no conflict between their faith in God and the evidence for evolution. Religious denominations that do not accept the occurrence of evolution tend to be those that believe in strictly literal interpretations of religious texts. â?�
â??Science, Evolution, and Creationism, National Academy of Sciences[10]

i'm not trying to argue that evolution doesn't exist and never has! I'm just letting you guys know that it was DESIGNED to happen. It does'nt happen randomly. AT ALL!!! NEVER!!!!

[chris62008]

now did that magic DNA also tell you which religion's god is the one real god??? christian, muslim, wicka, etc??? you have me hanging on the edge of my intellectual seat! :rasta:

no the DNA doesnt' tell you that. The HOLY BIBLE tells you that.. and the Holy Bible is actually verrryy acurate when it comes to science today my freind

[BlueBlazer]

Back to your bridge you evil troll. You have no power here . . .

[psychocat]

My response is that when Creationists talk about God creating every individual species as a separate act, they always instance hummingbirds, or orchids, sunflowers and beautiful things. But I tend to think instead of a parasitic worm that is boring through the eye of a boy sitting on the bank of a river in West Africa, [a worm] that's going to make him blind. And [I ask them], 'Are you telling me that the God you believe in, who you also say is an all-merciful God, who cares for each one of us individually, are you saying that God created this worm that can live in no other way than in an innocent child's eyeball? Because that doesn't seem to me to coincide with a God who's full of mercy'

David Attenborough :thumbsup:

[Delta9 UK]

i'm not trying to argue that evolution doesn't exist and never has! I'm just letting you guys know that it was DESIGNED to happen. It does'nt happen randomly. AT ALL!!! NEVER!!!!

CORRECT! Chris this is the first accurate thing you've said - indeed it doesn't happen randomly - and here is where you show your true ignorance of the theory.

I'm going to guess you haven't studied biological evolution, specifically natural selection and genetics - if you did you would know it isn't random - not at all. Lets go to school....

Natural selection is driven by the environment - it literally 'selects' the best ('fittest' if you like) life form - which through the nature of its 'success' is able to pass on those genes. As the environment changes so do selection pressures which 'choose' the best organism for the environment at that time. No organism is good/bad or better/worse it all depends on the environment at the time.

As the environment changes continually and mutagenic changes work their way into an organisms' genome you have the mechanism for evolution. That isn't random at all - the 'guiding hand' is the environment.

On the subject of DNA Iâ??ll come out and say it: DNA did not give rise to the first life. Yikes! like nobody thought that before. DNA has no way of being part of the very first life form because DNA makes RNA make protein makes DNA. Without proteins, you canâ??t make more DNA.

By itself, DNA is relatively inert. It doesnâ??t do anything special unless thereâ??s the cellular framework around to utilise the information encoded within its nucleotide sequence. As such, DNA could not have existed in the first organism.

But doesnâ??t this falsify Darwinian evolution? Uh, no, it doesnâ??t. The main reason is that evolution doesnâ??t predict that DNA was present in the first lifeform at all. This was simply something that scientists thought could be true, but the mechanisms of mutation and natural selection do not in any conceivable way hinge on DNA being present in the first lifeform. As such, itâ??s not a prediction made by evolutionary theory, and its falsification has no bearing on the truth of evolution.

:thumbsup:

[throatstick]

CORRECT! Chris this is the first accurate thing you've said - indeed it doesn't happen randomly - and here is where you show your true ignorance of the theory.

I'm going to guess you haven't studied biological evolution, specifically natural selection and genetics - if you did you would know it isn't random - not at all. Lets go to school....

Natural selection is driven by the environment - it literally 'selects' the best ('fittest' if you like) life form - which through the nature of its 'success' is able to pass on those genes. As the environment changes so do selection pressures which 'choose' the best organism for the environment at that time. No organism is good/bad or better/worse it all depends on the environment at the time.

As the environment changes continually and mutagenic changes work their way into an organisms' genome you have the mechanism for evolution. That isn't random at all - the 'guiding hand' is the environment.

On the subject of DNA Iâ??ll come out and say it: DNA did not give rise to the first life. Yikes! like nobody thought that before. DNA has no way of being part of the very first life form because DNA makes RNA make protein makes DNA. Without proteins, you canâ??t make more DNA.

By itself, DNA is relatively inert. It doesnâ??t do anything special unless thereâ??s the cellular framework around to utilise the information encoded within its nucleotide sequence. As such, DNA could not have existed in the first organism.

But doesnâ??t this falsify Darwinian evolution? Uh, no, it doesnâ??t. The main reason is that evolution doesnâ??t predict that DNA was present in the first lifeform at all. This was simply something that scientists thought could be true, but the mechanisms of mutation and natural selection do not in any conceivable way hinge on DNA being present in the first lifeform. As such, itâ??s not a prediction made by evolutionary theory, and its falsification has no bearing on the truth of evolution.

:thumbsup:

so hitler had it right all along nice.

[Delta9 UK]

so hitler had it right all along nice.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

Hitler didn't get anything right - he didn't even understand natural selection at all but he was a dirty great big fan of Eugenics - and a total asshole.

Besides we are only on page 5 - you can't bring up Hitler just yet and invoke Godwins Law - we aren't done yet!

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

My response is that when Creationists talk about God creating every individual species as a separate act, they always instance hummingbirds, or orchids, sunflowers and beautiful things. But I tend to think instead of a parasitic worm that is boring through the eye of a boy sitting on the bank of a river in West Africa, [a worm] that's going to make him blind. And , 'Are you telling me that the God you believe in, who you also say is an all-merciful God, who cares for each one of us individually, are you saying that God created this worm that can live in no other way than in an innocent child's eyeball? Because that doesn't seem to me to coincide with a God who's full of mercy'

David Attenborough :thumbsup:



A god that cares about the continuation of lif must understnd better than any HUMAN could, that not every life is necessary, not every life needs be lead/lived, and not every life is beneficial to the other lives around it.

The horrid events of today might just be the precursor for the utopian events of tomorrow, but if we are to make it a reality, we must learn jsut how much of life is necessarily important to be lived, and how much of life is truly terrible to have lost.


"God" would know, better than any of us could figure out.








you see he's not just "some guy" sitting out in the clouds.. he's GOD. Something waaaaayyyy greater than ANY human. He has always been and always will be. And you just have to accept that because frankly, [I]theres NO other explanation(?). Especiallly in "science" terms.



Speaking of talking in (BIG) circles...


"you have to, because of my logical understanding of it" is just another circle, isnt it?

""and I can PROVE there is! ... with DNA for example!""



The burden of proof rests in your hands...

How, exactly, does the existence of any matter or energy prove that someone CREATED matter and/or energy?