Khalid Sheik Mohammed Gets Civilian New York Court

[Islandborn]

and 5 others icluding Rhamsi BinAlshib.

Feds to seek death penalty for Sept. 11 suspects in Manhattan trial (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/khalid_sheikh_mohammed_other_suspects_1Lwa4EvGzzZE 8n01Xry40H)

Anyone remeber the Zacarious Mousoai trial?? Took fucking 4 years...after he admitted in court his guilt.

This is a TOTAL joke.....trial will cost taxpayers 10's of millions of dollars and last for years and years. Their lawyers will get up and lambast America and her allies for years. Headlines will splash all over the world of totally fabricated accusations inciting more retarded children to be suckered into blowing themselves up for jack shit. These martyrs who wish to castrate women and abolish music.

This is a trial for waterboarding and the CIA.....

[smello]

:mad:We will never learn-just give them our rights,which are better than the countries there from.

[RoundEye]

The biggest problem I see with this is that Americans are so ignorant of history that they have no clue as to why this is such an overwhelmingly bad idea. On top of that, their/our ignorance of it's historical precedent means that this will become the new precedent.

Liberals like to worship their god FDR. They need to read what he did to the 8 his administration discovered in '42. All but two were executed within a month.

[eastbaygordo]

To all repubs and sympathizers, I hope y'all get arrested and ass raped in jail.

To the normal folks, rule of law returns to America. That is a good thing.

[RoundEye]

Constitutional rights do not extend to enemy combatants in war. Military courts are what is needed here.

[Markass]

Execute them by firing line on television...- that's what they'd do to us

[Islandborn]

To all repubs and sympathizers, I hope y'all get arrested and ass raped in jail.

To the normal folks, rule of law returns to America. That is a good thing.

LMAO.....apparently this chicky is so open minded their brain fell out.

Stop watching HBO so much.....in real prison homosexuals and bootie bandits are segregated for their own protection.

I thought the left was supposed to be all open minded and accepting...yea right...whiny bitches. Come get some.:pimp:

[RoundEye]

LMAO.....apparently this chicky is so open minded their brain fell out.

Stop watching HBO so much.....in real prison homosexuals and bootie bandits are segregated for their own protection.

I thought the left was supposed to be all open minded and accepting...yea right...whiny bitches. Come get some.:pimp:

Lefties are only open minded and tolerant if you happen to agree with them. They seem to be tolerant of everything expect opposing views. The biggest problem as I see it, they've confused tolerance and acceptance. I can be tolerant of many things that I don't openly accept.

[Islandborn]

To all repubs and sympathizers, I hope y'all get arrested and ass raped in jail.

To the normal folks, rule of law returns to America. That is a good thing.

Wouldnt ya know....eastbay is from the great broke ass state of California lol, you need to borrow some cash homie? Wanna sell me your now outlawed big screen for some hope and change my friend...people in welfare states are always the ones whining and complaining.....it falls on deaf ears and a big smile. Anyway, imma watch some football on my 60in ( and bet $ with my profits) LCD and then take my son to the gun range to shoot some rounds with my Taurus 9mm & AR-15.... Deuce.

[Islandborn]

That was funny...ass raped? What an intellectual powerhouse.

I'd be angry and bitter to if my liberal govt, decided to withhold 10% more of my paychecks and stole my tax refunds to pay for their nanny state policies.

[RoundEye]

Wouldnt ya know....eastbay is from the great broke ass state of California lol, you need to borrow some cash homie? Wanna sell me your now outlawed big screen for some hope and change my friend...people in welfare states are always the ones whining and complaining.....it falls on deaf ears and a big smile. Anyway, imma watch some football on my 60in ( and bet $ with my profits) LCD and then take my son to the gun range to shoot some rounds with my Taurus 9mm & AR-15.... Deuce.

Funny how people in bankrupt states try to be the voice of reason for us that aren't.

I regularly take the kids out to the range. The 3 of them have little Marlin .22's.
Me, I've got a Rem 700 SPS in .223 a Savage in .308 and do all my own hand loads.
Way cheaper than buying boxes at the store. I guess that makes us extremist wackos.

[Islandborn]

Voice of reason....guy sounds like a skinhead straight up. I find far left nanny state supporters repulsive....but would NEVER, ever, wish them or anyone else to be fucking arrested for the personal opinions. I hope people read these things, these pseudo-intellectual, so-called liberals show their fascist heritage for all to see. The left has been the breeding grounds for almost all of historys murderous Dictators and Tyrants. Any honest Democrat would freely admit that. People see right there with EASTBAYGORDO. a fascist masquerading as a "liberal". Thats alright though...we still love ya homie, dont want you arrested and raped for opinions.

[delusionsofNORMALity]

To the normal folks, rule of law returns to America. That is a good thing.just so you know, the rule of law for enemy combatants is an entirely different thing than what civilians face. twelve men, angry or otherwise, are not what is called for when dealing with acts of war, but a military court or its equivalent. i'm sure that bleeding hearts would love to see deadlocked juries and suspended sentences for every terrorist we find, but war is a bit different than when some punk robs a liquor store for a pack of smokes. please wake up and smell the c-4.

[Islandborn]

Bush punted this one down the road too( sellout).....shoulda tried him at club Gitmo...taken him out behind the makeshift courtroom and hung his ass. And all the other highvalue targets. Chunked their corpse into the ocean for the fish to eat.

Now it will be YEARS AND YEARS of courtroom antics and ridiculous newspaper headlines.....big mean bush this and scary CIA that. Pathetic. Thats alright though.....we'll see.:pimp:

[RoundEye]

Voice of reason....guy sounds like a skinhead straight up. I find far left nanny state supporters repulsive....but would NEVER, ever, wish them or anyone else to be fucking arrested for the personal opinions. I hope people read these things, these pseudo-intellectual, so-called liberals show their fascist heritage for all to see. The left has been the breeding grounds for almost all of historys murderous Dictators and Tyrants. Any honest Democrat would freely admit that. People see right there with EASTBAYGORDO. a fascist masquerading as a "liberal". Thats alright though...we still love ya homie, dont want you arrested and raped for opinions.

So so true. I don't recall ever hearing a fellow conservative ever wish any real harm to anyone. Lefties always wish sick and twisted fates to anyone disagreeing with them. Then, they say we're the extremist and unloving types. This is were tolerance comes in to play.
I tolerate their opinions without accepting them.

[Islandborn]

Im telling ya.......................America sees Obama for what he is now. The Independents like myself who gave Obama the win in 2008 will never vote for him again. Never. Another goofy ass tax and spend liberal like all the rest....with a twist of 3rd world socialism.

2010 will be one of the most important...if not the MOST important election in American History. I hope you guys are registered to vote, have your cards and ID......cause it's on. Im bringing my whole family to the polls..

[boaz]

... I hope you guys are registered to vote, have your cards and ID......cause it's on...

:jointsmile: I have still have my voter reg card in my wallet ready to pull out and use in just 12 short months. :D time to weed out the congress. :stoned:

[smello]

.......................

2010 will be one of the most important...if not the MOST important election in American History. I hope you guys are registered to vote, have your cards and ID......cause it's on. Im bringing my whole family to the polls..

Im ready to get in line now!!!!!!!!

[boaz]

but back on topic, politix aside :jointsmile:, personally I think they should have tried all these guys in military tribunals and, if found guilty, executed them. If DOJ believes that they can accomplish that same objective now, in a non military court (with the help of DOD it sounds like) then I'm with them all the way. I'm not really concerned if they are executed as enemy combatants or just common murdering thugs, as long as justice is served. :twocents:

[Islandborn]

Watch Lindsay Graham destroy Attorney General Holder today in the Senate over this debacle

Althouse: Lindsey Graham devastates Eric Holder. (http://althouse.blogspot.com/2009/11/lindsey-graham-devastates-eric-holder.html)

m-m-m-m Miranda r-r-r-rights???

[Islandborn]

This a pure showtrial for waterboarding and the CIA. Here is another interesting read about the Holder DOJ.....SCARY.

Did Holder stiff Senate on Justice Dept. lawyers who defended jihadis? | Washington Examiner (http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/Did-Holder-stiff-Senate-on-Justice-Dept-lawyers-who-defended-jihadis-70442797.html)

Looks like they are full on committed to a one term president. Any bets?

[cannamanibus]

Why are we even trying him? OH b/c it's constitutional right? If they wanted to, they could hire me and i would torcher him myself, no prob. Yah we should put it on air to. Wasting more money. I get so mad at these subjects i wish i wasnt a pupu myself b/c i would join the ARMY. I want some frontline shootn action. My knee is messed up anyways i could'nt make it pass basic training. Actually im surprised the inmates haven't killed him already. Probably in segregation, b/c i know the AB would place a hit for him.

U.S.A is full of a bunch of tree huggn pupu's. Although i dont know where to find them down here in TX. I voted for Obama, im 22 btw if it makes a difference. I feel it does b/c you learn from your mistakes.

Off topic i know- For Nidal Hasan, i want to find him and drill 1/8in holes in his legs. Rip off ears, cut off fingers. I dont know.

[RoundEye]

Why are we even trying him? OH b/c it's constitutional right? If they wanted to, they could hire me and i would torcher him myself, no prob. Yah we should put it on air to. Wasting more money. I get so mad at these subjects i wish i wasnt a pupu myself b/c i would join the ARMY. I want some frontline shootn action. My knee is messed up anyways i could'nt make it pass basic training. Actually im surprised the inmates haven't killed him already. Probably in segregation, b/c i know the AB would place a hit for him.

U.S.A is full of a bunch of tree huggn pupu's. Although i dont know where to find them down here in TX. I voted for Obama, im 22 btw if it makes a difference. I feel it does b/c you learn from your mistakes.

Off topic i know- For Nidal Hasan, i want to find him and drill 1/8in holes in his legs. Rip off ears, cut off fingers. I dont know.


Yes your age does make a difference. More than you probably know.
And I thought the younger generation was lost!!! WOW,, you revitalized my hope in the nationalized pride of our youth. We're American's and the world has gone from looking to us as a ray of light, of hope, into thinking we're all pussies. No other nation would be such politically correct losers as we have become. Keep the faith kid.

[Islandborn]

Why are we even trying him? OH b/c it's constitutional right? If they wanted to, they could hire me and i would torcher him myself, no prob. Yah we should put it on air to. Wasting more money. I get so mad at these subjects i wish i wasnt a pupu myself b/c i would join the ARMY. I want some frontline shootn action. My knee is messed up anyways i could'nt make it pass basic training. Actually im surprised the inmates haven't killed him already. Probably in segregation, b/c i know the AB would place a hit for him.

U.S.A is full of a bunch of tree huggn pupu's. Although i dont know where to find them down here in TX. I voted for Obama, im 22 btw if it makes a difference. I feel it does b/c you learn from your mistakes.

Off topic i know- For Nidal Hasan, i want to find him and drill 1/8in holes in his legs. Rip off ears, cut off fingers. I dont know.

At 30...... I made the same mistake and voted for this clown of a president. A fucking cry baby socialist who masqueraded as a middle of the roader. Never again. And millions and millions of Independents like me feel the same.

I cannot wait till Mid-terms.....its gonna be hilarious...

[boaz]

At 30...... I made the same mistake and voted for this clown of a president. A fucking cry baby socialist who masqueraded as a middle of the roader. Never again. And millions and millions of Independents like me feel the same.

I cannot wait till Mid-terms.....its gonna be hilarious...

:jointsmile: i swear its like deja vu all over again :D i felt the exact same way after voting for Bill Clinton in '92. and that was just weeks into his presidency, imagine how we felt several years into it after that Janet Reno creature got into top gear. good god. :wtf:

you guys can hate all me all day if you want but I'm telling you I'll take our current AG over miss chokes on dicks any day. hell, i'd take 'berto over her :p and he was total joke.

[Islandborn]

I lump Reno and Napalitano into the same small group of angry lesbians.

Really...doesnt it appear as if they have commited to Obama being a one term president....any honest, educated, rational person has to wonder what they are thinking????

[boaz]

^ :D

I put Reno and Bill Clinton in the group of those who have committed crimes against humanity and genocide but lets not go there.

I guess Barry and boys must be thinking they can convict and start executing these individuals. that would be the only reason I could think they would do all this.

Makes me wonder why there has been no trial or no tribunal after 8 years. I say just have a trial and convict 'em. I think most of them will plead guilty anyway and there won't even be a trial, except for the prelims. :twocents:

But I do agree with you that if this does backfire the way everyone seems to predict it will, then they can turn out the lights the party is over for 2012. :jointsmile:

[cannamanibus]

They should just send em to Texas. Well zap em and get it done. Already done 2 within the last 2 weeks.

[Islandborn]

^ :D

I put Reno and Bill Clinton in the group of those who have committed crimes against humanity and genocide but lets not go there.

I guess Barry and boys must be thinking they can convict and start executing these individuals. that would be the only reason I could think they would do all this.

Makes me wonder why there has been no trial or no tribunal after 8 years. I say just have a trial and convict 'em. I think most of them will plead guilty anyway and there won't even be a trial, except for the prelims. :twocents:

But I do agree with you that if this does backfire the way everyone seems to predict it will, then they can turn out the lights the party is over for 2012. :jointsmile:

The only thing it can do is backfire....these people were caught on the battllefield....not in America. They werent wearing a uniform and are NOT protected by any international law or the Geneva convention no matter what a liberal may claim.

These folks or their lawyers will take the stand for YEARS and say whatever they think will get the most headlines. They are already planning it.....who cares if its true....just say it.

[Islandborn]

^ :D

I put Reno and Bill Clinton in the group of those who have committed crimes against humanity and genocide but lets not go there.

I guess Barry and boys must be thinking they can convict and start executing these individuals. that would be the only reason I could think they would do all this.

Makes me wonder why there has been no trial or no tribunal after 8 years. I say just have a trial and convict 'em. I think most of them will plead guilty anyway and there won't even be a trial, except for the prelims. :twocents:

But I do agree with you that if this does backfire the way everyone seems to predict it will, then they can turn out the lights the party is over for 2012. :jointsmile:

I assume your refering to Waco & Ruby Ridge?

[Mississippi Steve]

These folks are PRISONERS OF WAR, and as such should be prosecuted here and only here.

International Criminal Court - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Criminal_Court)

[Mississippi Steve]

Watch Lindsay Graham destroy Attorney General Holder today in the Senate over this debacle

Althouse: Lindsey Graham devastates Eric Holder. (http://althouse.blogspot.com/2009/11/lindsey-graham-devastates-eric-holder.html)

m-m-m-m Miranda r-r-r-rights???

Miranda only applies to US Citizens. It does NOT apply to prisoners of war.

[boaz]

I assume your refering to Waco & Ruby Ridge?

yep.

[Islandborn]

Im with ya....besides believing they should be tried and hung by the military at Gitmo.

[boaz]

They should just send em to Texas. Well zap em and get it done. Already done 2 within the last 2 weeks.

:D yeah, really or send them here to Oklahoma. not a whole lot bleeding heart liberals around these hyere parts. :jointsmile:

[Islandborn]

Defense attorneys already whispering of a change of venue motion.....prolly send it to California so they can be acquitted and get teachers positions at Berkley and UCLA......those kids will believe anything a muslim with a beard tells em.

[Islandborn]

Way off topic here...sorry. Whats up with dudes wearing clothes with Rhinestones on them? Fuckin Ed Hardy......since fucking when did it become socially acceptable for a grown ass man to wear little sparkly gems on his clothes and be cool......cause you fuckin aint. Shits whack as a motherwhatever.

And while Im on it........if your over.....say 25....putting rims on ur ride stops making ya look cool and starts making ya look gay.....same with the Affliction shirts...its dead already......LET IT GO.

sorry.... back to the world.

[boaz]

^ i can't speak for Bezerkely but I graduated from UCLA and I can tell you there were a LOT of very conservative students there when i was there.

[boaz]

Defense attorneys already whispering of a change of venue motion.....prolly send it to California so they can be acquitted and get teachers positions at Berkley and UCLA......those kids will believe anything a muslim with a beard tells em.

i'm guessing you've never actually been to California, am i right? don't believe the sterotypes, they are mostly wrong. mostly. :D

[Mississippi Steve]

i'm guessing you've never actually been to California, am i right? don't believe the sterotypes, they are mostly wrong. mostly. :D

I grew up in the Bay Area(Redwood City) in the late 60s, and early 70s.... he's dead on for the Peoples Republic of Berkeley.
If you want real conservatives, move to the deep south.

[Islandborn]

i'm guessing you've never actually been to California, am i right? don't believe the sterotypes, they are mostly wrong. mostly. :D

My sister-in-law lives in LA, went to Aveeda school there........been to California prolly 20 times in my life......from North to South.

[Islandborn]

I was watching all the rich white kids with dreads protesting the RAISE in tuition at Berkley over the weekend.....so these are college level kids right...they really cant put it together that its these tired ass socialist policies their elected officials install thats doing this right? Skip the protests kiddies and catch an economics class between pilates and vegan living:D

[cannamanibus]

Way off topic here...sorry. Whats up with dudes wearing clothes with Rhinestones on them? Fuckin Ed Hardy......since fucking when did it become socially acceptable for a grown ass man to wear little sparkly gems on his clothes and be cool......cause you fuckin aint. Shits whack as a motherwhatever.

And while Im on it........if your over.....say 25....putting rims on ur ride stops making ya look cool and starts making ya look gay.....same with the Affliction shirts...its dead already......LET IT GO.

sorry.... back to the world.

Tell me about it man, WTF. Ed Hardy... thats funny. Ima katch the Kappa tho... this year in the Gtown. hahaha :cool:

[boaz]

I grew up in the Bay Area(Redwood City) in the late 60s, and early 70s.... he's dead on for the Peoples Republic of Berkeley.
If you want real conservatives, move to the deep south.

thats true but the time ghost changed. :stoned: when I was at the UC's, the mighty dollar was king. even more so at Bezerkely from what I could tell.

but that said, :D yeah, white guys in dread locks. :wtf: but that's college these days. I bet you'd find the same dudes in Austin right now. :rastasmoke:

[boaz]

I was watching all the rich white kids with dreads protesting the RAISE in tuition at Berkley over the weekend.....so these are college level kids right...they really cant put it together that its these tired ass socialist policies their elected officials install thats doing this right? Skip the protests kiddies and catch an economics class between pilates and vegan living:D

:jointsmile: protesting is a long proud tradition for the UC's.
:s4:

I took my LSAT exams in the middle of the protest over the first gulf war. no worries, tho, still aced it and made it down to Westwood in time to take some great photos of the event. :pimp:

[Dreadscale]

Bring them to Trial anywhere in the states, It won't matter.

I don't care if it is a Red state or a Blue state if the evidence is there to convict them, they will be convicted!

I see all the FEAR mongering instigated by the Fascist Right.
The only thing to be really fearful of is that the dirty deeds of the previous administration may come to light.

If we cower from our duty to bring them to a fair trial, they win.
The whole idea of TERRORIST is to make us scared!!

I'm sorry but I'm not.

[Mississippi Steve]

Bring them to Trial anywhere in the states, It won't matter.

I don't care if it is a Red state or a Blue state if the evidence is there to convict them, they will be convicted!

I see all the FEAR mongering instigated by the Fascist Right.
The only thing to be really fearful of is that the dirty deeds of the previous administration may come to light.

If we cower from our duty to bring them to a fair trial, they win.
The whole idea of TERRORIST is to make us scared!!

I'm sorry but I'm not.


I'm not sorry either.... those klowns are prisoners of war. they should be tried either by a military tribunal, or send 'em to the world court in the Netherlands.
There is absolutely no reason to even think about a US court. It will be a media circus the likes of which, we have never seen before.

Who's gonna *PAY* for all that crap :wtf:

[Dreadscale]

I see Prisoner of War mentioned a lot!!
Prisoner of what War? The neverending War on Terror?
They have never had the protection of POW status as outlined in the Geneva Convention.


These guys are common criminals!!!
Mass Murderers!!!
They don't deserve POW status.
Read it here :) Are Al-Qaida Prisoners of War? (http://www.uwgb.edu/DutchS/PSEUDOSC/POW.HTM)

What International Law Says
The principal conventions governing prisoners of war are the Hague Convention of 1907 and the Geneva Convention of 1949. U.S. policies are spelled out in The Law of Land Warfare, Army Field Manual FM 27-10.

The Hague and Geneva Conventions lay out four criteria defining prisoners of war. This is a direct quote.

a: that of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates.
b: that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance.
c: that of carrying arms openly.
d: that of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.

The conventions further stipulate:

That guerrillas and resistance movements are entitled to treatment as prisoners of war provided they fit the four criteria above.
That if a populace spontaneously rises up in defense of its territory without having time to organize formally, they are still entitled to treatment as prisoners of war provided they meet criteria c. and d.
That persons whose status is in doubt enjoy the protection of prisoner of war status until their status is determined by a "competent tribunal."
They are not prisoners of war, but are to be given the same treatment until their status is determined.

If Al-Qaida had never attacked the United States, but had merely fought us in Afghanistan, they would probably be entitled to the status of prisoners of war. But in its operations against the United States, Al-Qaida fails all four tests. While Al-Qaida has a chain of command, it does not accept responsibility for the actions of its operatives (or more to the point, considers any act that harms Americans legitimate). Open operations and conduct of operations in accord with the laws of war hardly need comment.

[boaz]

...
These guys are common criminals!!!
Mass Murderers!!!
They don't deserve POW status.
...

that is the way I see it, too. Giving them POW or trying them is the hague just gives them prestige that they do not deserve. try 'em and fry 'em in civy court as common murdering thugs. :twocents:

[Islandborn]

[quote=Dreadscale]Bring them to Trial anywhere in the states, It won't matter.

I don't care if it is a Red state or a Blue state if the evidence is there to convict them, they will be convicted!

I see all the FEAR mongering instigated by the Fascist Right.
The only thing to be really fearful of is that the dirty deeds of the previous administration may come to light.

If we cower from our duty to bring them to a fair trial, they win.
The whole idea of TERRORIST is to make us scared!!

I'm sorry but I'm not.[/QUOTe

Fascism is a product of the Left....same with our current socialist resurgence and communism. All part of the left....not the right. Nazis were leftist socialists spewing anti jew garbage...and slaughtered 6 million.

Im so tired of left and right....feels more like its either your a Democrat or a socialist nowadays......and people thought America was divided under Bush's crazy ass......So much for the One, four years and he's done.

[Dreadscale]

According to most scholars of fascism, there are both left and right influences on fascism as a social movement, and fascism, especially once in power, has historically attacked communism, conservatism and parliamentary liberalism, attracting support primarily from the "far right" or "extreme right."

[boaz]

I'm no political expert but from I remember fascism is the believe in a small centralized gov't that controls everything. This definition fits both dems and repubs.

Really it seems to me that the polar opposite of a fascist would be a libertarian. :cool:

[Dreadscale]

Fascism is a product of the Left....same with our current socialist resurgence and communism. All part of the left....not the right. Nazis were leftist socialists spewing anti jew garbage...and slaughtered 6 million.

Im so tired of left and right....feels more like its either your a Democrat or a socialist nowadays......and people thought America was divided under Bush's crazy ass......So much for the One, four years and he's done.

I strongly disagree with this!!
Check out the signs and decide for yourself!!

Full Article
Definition of Fascism (http://www.couplescompany.com/Features/Politics/Structure3.htm)

The 14 Defining
Characteristics Of Fascism
by Dr. Lawrence Britt

Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and several Latin American regimes. Britt found 14-defining characteristics common to each:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism -
Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights -
Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause -
The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

4. Supremacy of the Military -
Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

5. Rampant Sexism -
The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.

6. Controlled Mass Media -
Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

7. Obsession with National Security -
Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined -
Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

9. Corporate Power is Protected -
The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed -
Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts -
Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment -
Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption -
Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

14. Fraudulent Elections -
Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

________________________________

Commentary:
An interesting note to end this article: As of January 2004, the United States fulfills all fourteen points of fascism and all seven warning signs are present. But we're not alone. Israel also fulfills all fourteen points and all seven warning signs as well. Welcome to the new republic, redefined, revised and spun. It is not too late to reverse this in either country, but it will be soon. The first step is realizing it. The second step is getting involved. As the propaganda slogan disguising our current war goes, "Freedom isn't free." But our war for freedom isn't abroad; it's here at home.


:twocents:

[Islandborn]

[email protected] Mon May 12 13:00:44 2003
Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 13:10:33 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Chip Berlet" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Fascism Anyone? 14 Characteristics of Fascist Regimes
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Article: 157767
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This is a highly flawed article. It is not a very accurate picture of fascism and frankly was a ripoff from a much better article by Umberto Eco:

Eternal Fascism: Fourteen Ways of Looking at a Blackshirt Eco - "Eternal Fascism: 14 Ways of Looking at a Blackshirt" (http://www.themodernword.com/eco/eco_blackshirt.html)

The Britt article started with what is happening in the U.S. and then crafted a description of fascism that only highlights those points that will support the thesis. This is a logical fallacy (the false notion that things that are similar in some aspects are identical in all aspects).

See also these definitions/descriptions:

PublicEye.org - Website of Political Research Associates (http://www.publiceye.org/eyes/whatfasc.html)

PublicEye.org - Website of Political Research Associates (http://www.publiceye.org/eyes/whatfasc.html)

Fascism is an especially virulent form of extreme right populism. Fascism glorifies national, racial, or cultural unity and collective rebirth while seeking to purge imagined enemies. It attacks both revolutionary movements and liberal pluralism in favor of militarized, totalitarian mass politics. Fascism first crystallized in Europe in response to the Bolshevik Revolution and the devastation of World War I, and then spread to other parts of the world. Between the two world wars, there were three forms of fascism: Italian economic corporatism; German racial nationalist Nazism; and clerical fascist movements such as the Romanian Iron Guard and the Croatian Ustashi. Since WWII, neofascists have reinterpreted fascist ideology and strategy in various ways to fit new circumstances.

Roger Griffin, an influential scholar of generic fascism, argues that cism is best defined as a revolutionary form of nationalism, one that sets out to be a political, social and ethical revolution, welding the â??peopleâ?? into a dynamic national community under new elites infused with heroic values. The core myth that inspires this project is that only a populist, trans-class movement of purifying, cathartic national rebirth (palingenesis) can stem the tide of decadence.

There are other common components of fascism, including an exclusionary form of ethnonationalism that narrowly defines who the real people or Volk are; the idea of the primary importance of the homogenous whole (Integralism); and the diminution of the importance of the individual in a society ruled by leaders who metaphysically represent the will of the people (Organicism). These factors create a drive for totalitarian control in fascist movements and states. Totalitarian movements and governments insist on intruding into and controlling every aspect of a person's life-public or private-political, social, or cultural. Totalitarianism is a term that still has analytical value despite its frequent misuse to bash the Left. Most notorious was Jeane J. Kirkpatrick, U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations, 1981-1985, who promulgated a theory that communist governments were totalitarian and could never be reformed, but brutal right-wing dictatorships were merely authoritarian and thus could be reformed through alliances with the United States. While this misrepresented the work of Hannah Arendt in her definitive book The Origins of Totalitarianism, it also suffered from a certain lack of historical accuracy when communism collapsed in Europe.

Chip Berlet, Political Research Associates
Co-author, "Right-Wing Populism in America"

[Islandborn]

The 'only' word in only a problem of the left was incorrect....

[Islandborn]

The way the liberal Dems seek to control every aspect of our lives from the Laughable Cap and Trade to the socialist Healthcare plan that killing their re-election chances....it sure seems to me that its the American Democrat Party that the scary fascist/socialist welfare party. I hated Bush...hated him. I was even duped into voting for Obamao....but between the 2 of them.....Obama is a way greater threat than W ever was

[Dreadscale]

....Fascism is an especially virulent form of extreme right populism.

I don't believe you will concede the point when even the material you provided clearly states the right wing appears fascist.. :)

I will concede Obama could be a greater threat to the country than George W., just on pure intelect.
This being said, he could also be a greater help to the country for the same reasons.

[Islandborn]

I thought I had in my last point.....There have been rightwing fascists...I spoke before thinking:stoned:. ....I just never gave feeble Bush the credit the socialist left did with being some fascist leader of a big right wing conspiracy...he wasnt smart enough for that.

[Islandborn]

Obama is a threat on intellect? Obama isnt super intelligent by any stretch of the imagination. He tries hard to make it appear as if he is though... an intelligent, cultured, person would have known not to bow lower than your host in Japan because it's a sign of weakness in Japanese culture...not that it mattered one way or another...im just saying. Obama was portrayed as many things during the campaign...none of which he has backed up or followed through on...hence his approval now below 50%.

I think my point is that if you look around the world right now and in America....the left currently represents a socialist...welfare & handout ideology. I also firmly believe there is a growing anti-jew ideology entrenched in the American and European leftists of 2009 which will be confronted sometime in the near future. The left also seeks to control and direct peoples individual lives in any way they can.....what we eat...how much I drive....what I set my air conditioner on.... what dr. i wanna use and for what...the list goes on and on and it's pathetic. Liberals would reach into your home and mine and tell us what to do if they could...

[boaz]

... I also firmly believe there is a growing anti-jew ideology entrenched in the American and European leftists of 2009 which will be confronted sometime in the near future. ...

really? i would hope its more anti Israel than anti-semetic, but i really wouldn't know these days. not a whole lot of left wingers where i live now.

[Dreadscale]

I don't believe you will concede the point when even the material you provided clearly states the right wing appears fascist.. :)

I will concede Obama could be a greater threat to the country than George W., just on pure intelect.This being said, he could also be a greater help to the country for the same reasons.


Obama is a threat on intellect? Obama isnt super intelligent by any stretch of the imagination. He tries hard to make it appear as if he is though... an intelligent, cultured, person would have known not to bow lower than your host in Japan because it's a sign of weakness in Japanese culture...not that it mattered one way or another...
im just saying. Obama was portrayed as many things during the campaign...none of which he has backed up or followed through on...hence his approval now below 50%.

I think my point is that if you look around the world right now and in America....the left currently represents a socialist...welfare & handout ideology. I also firmly believe there is a growing anti-jew ideology entrenched in the American and European leftists of 2009 which will be confronted sometime in the near future. The left also seeks to control and direct peoples individual lives in any way they can.....what we eat...how much I drive....what I set my air conditioner on.... what dr. i wanna use and for what...the list goes on and on and it's pathetic. Liberals would reach into your home and mine and tell us what to do if they could...

Islandborn if you read the quotes posted I don't believe I said Obama is a threat of any type! The point is not that Obama is super intelligent. The point is, he is smarter than the man who had photo ops reading a book upside down.
Hopefully this is just a misunderstanding and not an attempt to make a point with misquoted material. I do have to wonder about it because that is a ploy the right uses a lot to make points. (Misstating facts = FOX NEWS)
Actually since you mentioned bowing it implies it does matter to you. Since it is important to you it is important to me. :thumbsup:
Bowing (ojigi) is an important custom in Japan.
Bowing is a gesture of respect. Different bows are used for apologies and gratitude, to express different emotions, humility, sincerity, remorse, or deference, and in various traditional arts and religious ceremonies.
To preform the bow that would imply weakness you would kneel, bow forward with your forehead and hands touching the floor.
A TIP ON BOWING:
If you are new to Japan, you may find at first that you are not sure when to bow or how low or for how long. Most Japanese just appreciate that you make the effort and try but, if in doubt, bow lower and for slightly longer than the person you are meeting. You canâ??t go too far wrong with that! And when you start bowing on the phone, youâ??ll know youâ??ve got the hang of it.:thumbsup:

"....the left currently represents a socialist...welfare & handout ideology."I'm not going to argue a lot on this point!! I also see socialist...welfare policies. Socialism has always been a part of the U.S. policy. It may be more apparent now that the left is using socialism to undo the damage the fascist on the right have caused. The elitist, military based policies that have pushed this country to the brink may need a touch of socialism to undo them. I don't know. If I knew the answers I would be in D.C. not here.:)

"I also firmly believe there is a growing anti-jew ideology entrenched in the American and European leftists of 2009"
Beliefs are a wonderful thing. Beliefs are even more wonderful when they are rooted in fact.
I don't believe the Jewish community is with you on this though.
According to NJDC - President Obama received nearly 78% of the Jewish vote.
According to Institute of Global Jewish Affairs -Obama received 78% of the Jewish community's vote, the seventh highest percentage in history. The Illinois Democrat trails only Franklin Roosevelt (1936-1940-1944, 90%), John Kennedy (1960, 82%), Lyndon Johnson (1964, 90%), Hubert Humphrey (1968, 81%), Bill Clinton (1992, 80%), and Al Gore (2000, 79%) in receiving such Jewish support.[1]
If you would point me to some FACTS that indicate a Anti-Semitic ideology on the left in America, I would be glad to look at them.
Once again FACTS are nice.
The Fact is NOONE has told me what to eat, what Dr. to see. This is more of an economic thing, I drive if I have Gas, I eat steak if I can afford it. If I can afford a specialist I don't go to the Community Clinic.

"Liberals would reach into your home and mine and tell us what to do if they could..."
The only argument I have with this statement is that it is not confined to Liberals!
Both right and left seek to control us. Some use methods that are direct and some are more indirect. We can be told not to drive or the government can make it less appealing to drive. We can be told which Dr. to go see or we can have it so expensive we can't afford health care.

Both sides want to control us they just implement different tactics to get the job done.

I hope you don't tire easily of these chats. :) I love your input!!
Even though we may disagree on some of it.:computerlove1:

[Islandborn]

Photographed holding a book upside down? Really? I dunno who ur talking about but that doesnt really tell ya very much. I have a geology book you have to turn upside down to get the mapping right.

Looking at Obamas 1st year in office Id say he is far less expierienced and educated than almost all of his predessesors.....in a year he has gone from the man with the plan to an international punching bag and laughing stock

Off the top of my head Cynthia McKinney, Democrat of California comes to mind for her anti-israel and jew BS.

I thought it was financial irresponsibility and idiotic home loans for people with no jobs got us into the financial mess we are in? The proposed Obamacare bill now dwarfs the cost of the Iraq war....

Letting all those car companies fail with no bailout was the right answer to the crisis...same with the banks...do bad buisness and you fail...story over

Removing Federal guidlines keeping people from buying insurance across state lines and TORT reform is the answer...not creating ANOTHER poorly run Govt agenc..

[Islandborn]

I was saying the Democrats WANT to be able to control those things. Dr.s, what kind of cars we buy, how much electricity we use and when....control. People see that now.....thats why Obama and most importantly...CONGRESS...is in deep shit IN 2010.

[boaz]

... Off the top of my head Cynthia McKinney, Democrat of California comes to mind for her anti-israel and jew BS.
...

its unfortunate (for them :jointsmile: ) if she has said anything anti-semitic.

The only thing I knew about her (before I dogpiled her. :D ) was that she had some kind of brawl with the Capital security or something.


I wasn't even aware of her work in Gaza. Pretty gutsy chick if you ask me. :smokin:



wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynthia_McKinney)

Free Gaza Movement

Ship Dignity

On December 30, 2008, McKinney was aboard the ship Dignity as it attempted to enter the Gaza Strip, which had its coastal area declared a "closed military zone" by Israel, while on a humanitarian mission by the Free Gaza Movement from Cyprus. Aboard were physicians, medical supplies, and activists, including Caoimhe Butterly. The Israel Navy confronted the ship at night in international waters. Members of the crew claimed that the ship was rammed, gunfire was directed at the water, and the ship was forced to dock in Lebanon after taking on water[75][76]. Israel officials claimed that the collision was accidental and occurred after the ship was informed they wouldn't be allowed to enter Gaza and tried to outmaneuver the patrol boat; they decried McKinney's actions as being irresponsible and provocative for the sake of propaganda.[76][77]

Ship Spirit of Humanity

On June 30, 2009, McKinney was aboard the Greek-flagged Free Gaza Movement's ship Spirit of Humanity carrying 21 activists including Irish peace activist Mairead McGuire, medical supplies, a symbolic bag of cement, olive trees and toys, when it was seized by the Israeli Navy 18 mi (29 km) off the Gaza coast. It is unclear whether they were in international waters or in Gazan waters, which is subject to the Israeli blockade of Gaza.[78][79] Although both the Cypriot and Israeli authorities were officially informed the destination was Gaza before the vessel's departure, according to the Cypriot government the ship "was given permission by the competent Authorities of the Republic of Cyprus to sail off the port of Larnaca in Cyprus on the basis of its declaration that its intended destination was the port of Port Said in Egypt."[79]

McKinney was held at the Givon immigration detention center in Ramle, until she was released on July 5.[80] The Israeli government would have released McKinney and her fellow activists immediately had they signed deportation papers; however, McKinney at least initially refused to sign, arguing that she could not be sure of what the papers, written in Hebrew, said, and that the papers would require them to admit that they were in violation of Israel's blockade, which they deny.[81][82][83][84][85] According to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, Israeli officials have noted "that Palestinian Authority and the rest of the international community had agreed to the off-shore blockade to prevent arms smuggling into Gaza."[83] The Palestinian Chronicle reports that such an agreement to the off-shore blockade never happened. "No Palestinians have agreed nor did the international community agree to a blockade of Gaza by land or Sea."[86] On June 17, 2009, a group of United Nations agencies and non-governmental organizations (NGOs) called for an end to Israel's blockade of the Gaza Strip.[87]

On July 7, 2009, McKinney was deported to the United States.[88] The Israeli government has indicated it will deliver the supplies via land.

[Islandborn]

McKinney is more stupid than brave....they shoulda shot her and sunk the boat.

Jesse Jackson also has some pretty hilarious anti-jew comments also.....Ill post some Monday when I have some time....Senator Byrd D. the former Klansman has some good stuff to..

[boaz]

^ sounds like they did try to sink her boat. they prolly woulda shot her, too, if they could have got away with it.

[boaz]

I'm not going to turn this into a whole Israel vs. Palestine thing but do you remember what was happening about that time? I remember turning on the BBC to watch the early news that day and seeing an interview with the UN personal on the ground in Gaza. He was saying telling how they had given their GPS coordinates to the Israel Defense Forces and warned them hey had brought all the children to the schools to save them from the bombing. The next day the IDF bombed the schools and scores of school children were killed and maimed. If anyone could have got a boat load of doctors to the scene to help them, I don't give a fuck who might object.

[Islandborn]

I wouldnt even know where to start with the israeli palesinian war....it was going on before I was born and will continue long after Im dead....

[boaz]

... Jesse Jackson also has some pretty hilarious anti-jew comments also.....Ill post some Monday when I have some time....Senator Byrd D. the former Klansman has some good stuff to..

true. Jesse has some classics. :D

[boaz]

I wouldnt even know where to start with the israeli palesinian war....it was going on before I was born and will continue long after Im dead....

:jointsmile: okay, I agree. You get the final word on that. :D