Plant Problem

[michaelpeg]

What is your experience level? (first timer, novice, experienced...)
dumb novice

Your Equipment:
.1) Type and wattage of lights. (MH, HPS, CFL's, tube fluorescents, LED's)
1: 400w hps
.2) Distance from tops?
2: ~8 inches
.3) Reflector type? (cool tube set-up, bat wing, enclosed reflector, bare bulb...)
3: bare bulb
.4) Is there a consistent fresh air supply?
4: yes
.5) Do you have an exhaust fan and a circulation fan?
5: circulation fan only
.6) What are the bulb wattages, kelvin ratings, and schedule?
6: 400w hps 18/12
Your medium:
.7) Specific brand and type of soil, (coco, peat based soilless...) and anything you've added to it. (vermiculite, perlite, worm castings...)
7: Foxfarm Ocean Forest mixed with ~25% perlite
.8) Size of container.
8: Hydro guy told me it was 1 gal. i think it is 2 gal (it is about 2x size of a gal of ice cream
.9) Did you use peat pucks (or similar) to root clones or germinate seedlings?
9: no

Your nutrients and water:
10) Source of water? (tap, bottled or filtered) What's it's ph before adjusting?
10: tap ph around 8
11) Method of checking water ph. (ph pen, test strips, aquarium test kit...)
11: ph pen (milwaukee)
12) Method of adjusting water ph. (phosphoric acid, white vinegar, hydrated lime, PH Up...)
12: phosphoric acid (ph down)
13) Specific brand and N-P-K ratio for each bottle. List dosages (quantity per gallon) and current feeding schedule.
13: nutes used are foxfarm grow big thats it. previous feeding i gave her 3)4 strength on about 1.5 mls per 500 mls
14) How often are you watering between feedings, and how much per watering?
14: I feed every second watering and i water with about 250mls with and without food
15) Any additives or tea's? (Superthrive, CalMag, molasses, Mother's Earth...)
15: None
16) Are your ph levels stable, or do they fluctuate?
16: Stable
17) What is your ingoing water's ph? ...your runoff ph?
17: ingoing 6.8 runoff 6.8
18) Do you foliar feed? If so, with what, how often, and at what time do you spray?
18: No

Your growroom:
19) Indoors or outdoors?
19: indoor
20) What size of closet, room or hut?
20: room approx. 10ft by 10ft
21) What are the temps and humidity levels while lights are on? ...With lights off?
21: I dont know the humidity but i would guess pretty dry because its almost winter. I dont have a thermometer but I am quite sure temps at the top of the plant with lights on is about 25 celcius MAX and lights off about 18 celcius
22) Have you seen signs of insects in the growroom?
22: No
Your strain:
23) What strain are you growing? (Indica dominate or Sativa dom?)
23: barneys farmindica-sativa not sure the dom
24) From seeds or clones?
24: seed
25) Is this an autoflower strain?
25:no

The plant has been growing extemely slow (it`s over 3 months old possibly 4 months) old leaves were turning light green, yellow, white and then brown. At the time i was feeding them with really weak nutes which was slightly less than 1)3 strength and was getting poor results with very slow growth. I figured she was hungry so I bumped it up to 3)4 strength which led to pretty quick growth the leaf edges were curling up like heat stress ( which i know it is not) and spots on the leaves after the leaves fully developed. On the next feed day i gave her approx. 2)3 strength and same thing. Figuring that i had burned her I flushed her out 5 days ago with about a gallon of ph 6.8 water and runoff was 6.8 at end of flush. The runoff was piss yellow at the start of the flushwhich i read on stinkys flush guide was an indicator that it needed a flush. I watered until the water was pretty clear (still a bit of yellow not much) and she has not produced any spots since but im back to the same slow light green coloured growth. Any ideas?

[michaelpeg]

to keep it interesting some beautiful weed I bought because i can`t seem to grow my own:jointsmile:.

[michaelpeg]

anyone?

[bonedaddy420]

I know its not any help, but that should be way way bigger at 3-4 months... It seems like you have had some bad luck and I really hope you keep trying and don't give up! Maybe try some CFL supplemental lighting? I would imagine you wouldn't need it for 1 plant under a 400w HPS, but maybe the problem is that you are running it in too big of a space and there is not any light reflecting back onto the plant. Is it possible for you to make some sort of box, or even some walls to put around the plant that could harness your light more effectivly?

[DreadedHermie]

6: 400w hps 18/12


Well, a 30-hour day is weird. 18/6 maybe?


14) How often are you watering between feedings, and how much per watering?


And you didn't answer this question. I think the problem is lurking around here somewhere. That pot is pretty big, too. I'm thinking soggy soil > whacky soil chemistry > nute lockouts, etc.

Keep them younguns pret-near rootbound as they grow, so the roots can drain the soil better. A coupla inches of pebbles, broken pots, etc. in the bottom of that pot would have helped it drain better till you got some roots goin'. (There are drain holes in the pot, yes?) Was it rootbound when you transplanted up to that pot?

Anyway, without getting too technical (because I am fundamentally unequipped) I would guess it's "Overloved" via too-frequent watering, or some variation of that theme.

And Bonedaddy's right. 400HPS is a lotta light going to waste, and a lotta heat for a youngun. Prolly have better luck with some 5500-6500K CFL's or some Cool-white fluoro tubes. Some folks have good luck vegging under HPS. I'm not one of 'em. :(

[michaelpeg]

Well, a 30-hour day is weird. 18/6 maybe?



And you didn't answer this question. I think the problem is lurking around here somewhere. That pot is pretty big, too. I'm thinking soggy soil > whacky soil chemistry > nute lockouts, etc.

Keep them younguns pret-near rootbound as they grow, so the roots can drain the soil better. A coupla inches of pebbles, broken pots, etc. in the bottom of that pot would have helped it drain better till you got some roots goin'. (There are drain holes in the pot, yes?) Was it rootbound when you transplanted up to that pot?

Anyway, without getting too technical (because I am fundamentally unequipped) I would guess it's "Overloved" via too-frequent watering, or some variation of that theme.

And Bonedaddy's right. 400HPS is a lotta light going to waste, and a lotta heat for a youngun. Prolly have better luck with some 5500-6500K CFL's or some Cool-white fluoro tubes. Some folks have good luck vegging under HPS. I'm not one of 'em. :(

I answered question 14: 14: I feed every second watering and i water with about 250mls with and without food

the plants are not youngens, like i said they are 3-4 months old, I let the soil get quite dry I use a moisture meter to penetrate the soil and i see how much soil sticks to the probe when I see its dry to about an inch and a half from the bottom I water(lets me know at what level it is wet), you know what i mean with the light schedule, yes 18/6.

the plants were rootbound but came from a 4 inch pot, yes there are drain holes lol.

as for the cfls, they started under cfls and looked like shit, kind of how they do now.

There is no problem with drainage because like I said it is probably about 20% perlite+ however much perlite it came with.

Like I said, temps are fine, I know the hps is wasting lots of light without a reflector but shitty plants=more money spent at the dealer= no money for anything! anyways I really dont think this has anything to do with that.

What kind of wacky soil chemistry? im using ffof like half of you guys use (paid $50 for it) and i've only fed the plant maybe 5 times total.

I guess i will have to record my entire grow on camera so someone can catch what I am doing wrong.

thanks for the replies

[michaelpeg]

I know its not any help, but that should be way way bigger at 3-4 months... It seems like you have had some bad luck and I really hope you keep trying and don't give up! Maybe try some CFL supplemental lighting? I would imagine you wouldn't need it for 1 plant under a 400w HPS, but maybe the problem is that you are running it in too big of a space and there is not any light reflecting back onto the plant. Is it possible for you to make some sort of box, or even some walls to put around the plant that could harness your light more effectivly?

believe me I am well aware it is small for its age, I wish i could afford a reflector and i think a box around them would build up way too much heat

thanks for reply

[bonedaddy420]

Why not do what a lot of people on here do, DIY a reflector outta some cardboard and foil? Something can't be worse than nothing, right? And if you don't know that a box would make too much heat, why not try it out and find out for sure?? I'm not trying to be a dick, I've for sure seen one of your previous attempts, and it seems like you have everything to make it work, it just doesn't work, know what I'm sayin? Also remember, you get what you put into it. Just don't give up, try some new ideas, and good luck.

[michaelpeg]

I actually started them in a rubbermaid bin with cfls and it was hot as hell in there (you can check it in my abandoned grow log for this plant if you want title: first grow log I WILL need help). Yes any reflector would help greatly I was hoping I would be able to afford a batwing by now but i might just go ahead and try to construct one out of a large beer can. Sorry everyone if I come across as a dick but I have been trying so hard for so long and on top of that I have no weed and I have a serotonin deficiency which causes me to get mad real fast which really sucks:(

anyways I think you might be right DH about to big of pots. When I think about it, my most successful plant (my first try) was flowered in a 6 inch pot. My next attempt I will definitely wait longer to put them in a huge pot.

[talonkardel]

just because you had a successful grow in a 6" pot doesnt mean its the best way to go about it.. You should really go through and read alot of the sticky's in these forums before you start again. I'm a first time grower myself, although im growing outside, the same concepts still applies ie. (transplanting properly, watching nutrient levels, etc.)
When i started here i was told to read up on stinkyattic's posts and indeed i did, she has a gazillion posts on how to get the most from your plants.
Optomizing your grow would be a great way to go, having just one plant isnt always reliable (could turn male, could be retarded genetics etc.) Your lighting setup seems optimal for a micro grow (up to 6-7 plants depending on space).
Just remember, if you fail -- go back read more, and when you think you've read enough, read some more, and then try again :D.
Also, fox farm soil isnt necessary for a good grow, im using a compost/potting mix that cost me $1.80 per cubic foot. With a good set of nutrients, you can get everything you need out of your plant.
And again, read read read, everything you need from start to finish is inside this forum.
Cheers! TK.
:hippy:

[michaelpeg]

come on I have read hours and hours on this, I have been a member since 2007 and have over 500 posts I have read the stickies and pages of the plant problems section and the plant problem sections on other sites. I could probably tell someone everything they need to know to grow a nice plant but I can't seem to pull it off myself.

I've grown outside as well. Its easy as shit, I threw a couple seedlings in the ground and they grew into perfect healthy plants, aside from a little bit of bug damage on the lowest leaves but it frosted way to early to harvest anything worthwhile.

I know that you dont need foxfarm soil but i bought it so you guys would have a better idea of what problems I have because most of you guys use it/have used it.

[MasterKushy]

Looks like you're over feeding it. Do you know the PPM or EC of what you are feeding it? The curled up edges and brown spots makes me think you are feeding too much.

[DreadedHermie]

Sorry, michaelpeg. I've been in some pain for the last coupla weeks and I *cough* "overmedicated" myself before answering your post. I did miss some things! And, your frustration is evident so I would like to try to help.


I answered question 14: 14: I feed every second watering and i water with about 250mls with and without food

Hush my puppies! You did answer it. The freakin' question doesn't ask the important thing, though: how often do you water? I realize you feed / water alternately, but the question doesn't ask whether this is a daily or monthly event.

Here's what I'm thinking:

Fox farm is good soil, I've used it several times, but it's HOT (lotsa nutes). Enough to have shocked your plant when you first started using it. A plant that small probably was not using the nutes nearly as fast as you were adding them, even at half-strength or even less. Small plant + big potta hot soil = no extra nutes needed for 3 weeks, maybe.

If you were watering every day, and feeding every other, that would definitely cause what we're seeing here. Less often, maybe still caused it. So, how often were you watering?


the plants are not youngens, like i said they are 3-4 months old,
Sorry, I did read that, but was looking at the pics, and :stoned: :stoned:

I let the soil get quite dry
Well, you want it to dry a little...not enough to shrink and crack, though.

I use a moisture meter to penetrate the soil and i see how much soil sticks to the probe when I see its dry to about an inch and a half from the bottom I water(lets me know at what level it is wet),


I'm not a fan of moisture meters. I poke my finger in there, and heft the pot for weight.

If you have access to a TDS / EC meter, THAT might be helpful. I would check the runoff water and see if it's still hot coming out.

The problem still looks like a semi-drowned plant with a toxic buildup in the soil.

HTH, Hermie

EDIT: I agree with Masterkushy, too! :thumbsup:

[michaelpeg]

all is good DH, I guess maybe I underestimated the foxfarm and possibly nuted too early but the plants were growing so slow, sometimes no noticeable growth after a few days and older leaves going white with light green new growth so I figured that those were the symptoms of hungry plants. I water about once every 4 days. I still haven't watered since the flush which was about a week ago but the moisture meter comes out of the soil dirty.

I dont use the numbers on the moisture meter as a reference to water i just use it instead of poking my big finger through the soil possibly damaging roots.

I would love a ppm meter but I can't afford it right now but it is the first thing on my list of plant supplies.

I haven't fed them since the flush about a week ago and growth has been slow and light green.

I am still thinking it is because I went to big of pot too fast.


Thanks for the replies

[bonedaddy420]

I just had a thought, what about your bulb? I personally have never dealt with HID lighting, but I know that bulbs degrade with time. I also know there are serveral different brands with mixed reviews. Just something to ponder I guess, someone with more HID knowledge would have a better idea than me.

[michaelpeg]

yeah HID bulbs are less effective over time and mine is on its second grow but i dont want to waste any more money on a new bulb until I have my problems sorted out first, The bulb wouldn't cause what im seeing on my plants, it would just give me more stretching

[bonedaddy420]

yeah it was just a thought I had when I was astral travelling :D, after I had thought about it more I figured that it probably wasn't the light, but still something to consider.

[JackdaWack]

Bulbs will loose the max lumen output over time, its not really an issue unless you need every lumen, If your over kill on lighting dont worry about it. Get a new one when u can afford it.