stupid DWC ??

[tinytoon]

this is probably a simple stupid question but what is the easiest way to do a water change in a 5 gal DWC bucket?? I dont run DWC as of yet but thinking about doing a mother plant this way and continuing E&F in my cab and tent. so if I have a 5 gal bucket, netpot lid, airstone and pump what would the simple method be?? just didnt think popping the lid of and exposing roots to light to change water was a good idea but I have no clue hehe :wtf:

[DreadedHermie]

Just need another bucket. Mix it up exactly the way you want, set it along side the DWC, and just swap 'em. No biggie. Brief aeroponic experience for the plant! :thumbsup: I've seen peeps be positively brutal on roots and the plant didn't seem to mind(?):wtf:

[darealbrain]

yeah all it is is transplanting.

[disrupt86]

try not to do it in direct light,but u wont ave any problems.i personally just use an exact empty container,some people fill it with straight water and swap it over,just be fast about it if u are going to do it empty.

[tinytoon]

I knew it was something simple :jointsmile:

[MerryPrankstr]

Go for it Tinytoon, I don't know why I resisted as long as I did.

I'm running 6" net basketa with coco in 5 gal buckets with a 5" disk airstone right now and it seems like they're growing in fast forward.

18" in 8 days !!!

I premix the water and swap the buckets and I'm done.

M.P.

[Mother]

Tinytoon,

I'm curious why you want do grow a mother in DWC? If you need the rapid growth I suppose it makes sense, but if you don't, you're just exposing yourself to more things that can fail. For example, if your power goes out, a mother in soil will be fine for a few days, but in DWC your mother dies. You also have to rely on air pumps, which can fail. Just trying to save you some headache.

[tinytoon]

hmmm didnt give the power outage a thought but the reason behind it all is ..
1) never done DWC and thought would give a try and would like to change my 4x4 tent into DWC instead of E&F.
2) we have been doing continuous clones .... we clone about a week before flower so we can start the next grow and tired of waiting on plants that fall behind.
3) have 2 grows atm 2x3x6 cab which will stay E&F and a 4x4x7 tent which the E&F setup in the tent is wasting alot of space so thought turn that into DWC.
4) thought to start 1 DWC (mother) to get my feet wet (no pun intended) and get used to it before chamging tent over.

now I have a quick question ....... I understand in DWC if the airpump stops then the plants can basically drown, so if power goes out or pump dies what is an estimate on time before drowning would occur?? and is PH a real pain to try and keep in line?? my E&F trays hardly ever change much more than like +/- .4 or so

[thebeachman]

Ithink the ease of DWC is worth the risk,theres alot that can go wrong with any system,I leave 4"humid zone between my pot and H2O.The bubble will
mist up to wet the medium,eventually long roots find the water but,there is always humid air in that four inch zone and the power can go out and it doesntkill the plant,helps prevent root rot also.:hippy:

[thebeachman]

Check this out.[attachment=o229047]
Those wet roots are at least 8" from the H2O,its all in the wicking properties I could shut down the pump and
thew would stay wet,while the submerged roots share the O2 the unsubmerged roots take up,the result is no suffocation.:hippy:

[tinytoon]

thank you for your input beach :thumbsup:

[ForgetClassC]

What I found really helpful was to get a checkvalve and put it right after the tube comes out of the bucket, just disconnect and take the bucket to where it needs to go. That of course is if you had the hose drilled through the bottom side of the bucket. Its also nice to have a caring hand to hold the plant while refilling, preferably the person you are growing/living with.

[tinytoon]

hehe I dont think going out to the sidewalk and saying "excuse me you got a min to hold my plant while I change water" would work out very well :D

so 5 gal bucket x2 for water changes, 6" netpot lid, airpump and airstone and of course water, nutes, hydrotron, etc.
Am I forgetting anything??

[thebeachman]

I took a paddle bit and drilled a hole in my buckets at the bottom
and insert a inline valve should come with a grommet get them at any hydro store.Drains with the turn of the valve.makes checking ph easy.But when I change my solution
I simply have a clean bucket with solution to change out.Exposing those roots during solution chage is no tgoing to hurt your plant. Spring for an extra bucket.:hippy:

[MMJLabRat]

I have

use the extra bucket method - it works perfect.

just mix solution as directed and set the lid on the newly filled and clean bucket.

I have also

just set them in another bucket Dry

Set them on the floor with nothing.

held them in the air while someelse went and got the bucket clean and filled

what ever it takes. and the roots like to be touched. I wave my hand through the water to separate the roots sometimes, they seem to enjoy it and are always fat.

[thebeachman]

LOL, you sound as organized as I am. Roots love to be out of the bucket
as much as possible just keep em moist.:hippy:

[tinytoon]

ok 5 gallon bucket with 2 6" bar airstones and a 6" bucket basket, how high should water level be for a newly rooted clone??

[tinytoon]

hmmm .... nobody knows water level??

[avon211]

I put a small hole in my DWC lid and have a battery operated pump that sucks all the old nute solution out and I fill the same way. I have a empty bucket that I fill and unfill into. This whole process only takes minutes.

[DreadedHermie]

hmmm .... nobody knows water level??

TT, I couldn't find what you've got the clone in. Rockwool cube in hydroton?

I'm using coco and it's real forgiving. Any bubble-splashes get wicked all through the coco real well. Almost touching to 2" away, it was all good.

[tinytoon]

I'm sorry DH. Clone is in a Rapid Rooter which is in the Hydrotron inside a 6" bucket basket on top of a 5 gal bucket :thumbsup:

[LOC NAR on probation]

hmmm .... nobody knows water level??

Newly rooted clones water level is just barely below the bottom of the netpot. Bubbles splash the bottom and keep it wet. Then the water can be lowered a bit when roots hang down good. Air ball roots stay fairly dry but moist.

[tinytoon]

kk ty :thumbsup:

[tinytoon]

Roots out of the basket after 9 days :thumbsup:
Pics tomorrow

[tinytoon]

ok been going for about 2 weeks or so now and plant has roots (about 4) hanging down to the water and roots look great, growth however is slower than a turtle that was hit by a semi-truck!! Was running a pair of 75w cfl's over top of plant and just upgraded those to a pair of 100w cfl's. Could it be low light levels being the cause of slow growth? Comparing to the plants under the 400w MH which were started about 2 days earlier, the cfl plant is about half the size.

[ForgetClassC]

Whats your nute solution at? When I did a DWC I started it at 1/2 the level for the seedlings and stuff and in the first 2 days had roots from a clone. After that it didn't really stop. Weird that they only have 4 roots, mine erupted as soon as they hit the water. Are the roots just straight or do they branch out all over the place. Man I'm rambling, I'm so high, fuckin trainwreck......

[tinytoon]

Sorry not to make it more clear and stupid me should take a pic or 2 also :( but there are like 4 roots that are about 7" long that reach the water and there are others coming out of the hydrotron. The plant has more than 4 roots total, sorry for being misleading. Root growth looks good it is the top side that just doesnt really seem to being doing much. Thats why was wondering if it had to do with only 2 100w cfl's atm compared to my 400w MH in the tent. Nute strength is full. 5 ml per gal of micro/grow/bloom PH at 5.9

[disrupt86]

they will come, due time.if 4 have made it u got 40 more on the way in a week or 2

[tinytoon]

kk thnx for the support :thumbsup: I'm going to add 2 horizontally mounted flouros on either side and keep the 2 100w cfl's over top. All will be running 6500k daylight bulbs :jointsmile:
sorry for all the stupid questions, I just got so used to my 2 E&F units I dont even think when I work with those and this is the first DWC I have done and didnt really know what to expect.

[tinytoon]

did rez change yesterday along with the 2 cabs (the normal Sunday duty), and all looked real good, roots coming along good and nice and white. Tonite I go and check on my lil bucket baby and root part that was dangling in water has a brown tint to it and almost slimy looking (didnt want to touch as roots still look on fragile side). So now I sit here and think :wtf: wtf?? If a small amount of light was getting into the buckey could this be a cause?? PH is running right around 5.8/6.0 and res temp is 68/73. I know temps can cause root rot but I dont believe I am even close to being high. Have 2 6" airstones that are bubbling there arse off so lack of O2 should not be a cause. What am I leaving out??

[DreadedHermie]

What's your water like?

If I use water from my well I get stinky brownness (smells like a wet dog) in less than 24 hours. But my rez temps are in the 80's.

Switched to distilled + calmag, problem solved.

I've even used chlorine bleach in the rez (1-2 ppm) despite some "experts" telling me that'd kill my plant. (Scorched her a bit, I'll confess, but I killed the brown slime and the plant survived). A more conventional approach is administration of 3% H202 at 5-15 ml per gallon, at 3-day intervals.

But if you are inoculating a warm nutrient solution with bacteria/fungus (with no natural controls like beneficial organisms) from your water, rapid slime growth is very possible.

[tinytoon]

I using tap water, same as I have been using in my E&F systems for over a year now. I get my yearly water report but dont have a clue wtf it says since there isnt a ppm are anything of the sort in it. added 2 capfuls of H2O2 last night to the 3 gal of water in res and this morning the roots look ALOT better. Doesnt appear to be slimey and brown color is disapating. When I changed water on Sunday I wiped out the bucket and rinsed best I could and whaite rag I used for wiping did remove a brown film from sides of bucket and tops of stones. I starting to think maybe H2O2 is gonna be a constant add to the mix. Also added 2 24" flouro's to the lighting setup.

[DreadedHermie]

Well, tap water, sure...

But where was it before it came outta your tap?

A well/aeration system (no disinfection unless you're doing it, and possible fungal / bacterial load) or a municipal water supply (treated with chlorine / chloramine / whatever) and probably "clean."

I'm gonna guess it's "city" water...since somebody gave you a report..and since it's worked okay before in E & F... :thumbsup:

Mine's infectious right outta the tap. :( I won't drink it...

Sounds like you're getting it under control, though..good luck...:hippy:

[james70]

Could the slime be caused by res/nutes being too cool? I was vegging under cfl's and had low temps and a slight brown tinge to roots. I added cannazyme just in case. Not a problem now i'm flowering with a 600w HPS.

Re: changing nutes, I always swapped buckets but now the root mass is huge and i'm doing a scrog so decided to buy an extra water pump. Same as what avon211 suggested.

[tinytoon]

sorry DH it is City water.

right outa the tap .... boy I can be such a dumbass sometimes lol :jointsmile:

[DreadedHermie]

boy I can be such a dumbass sometimes lol

You? Think I couldda asked the question better? (What's your water like)...Well, it's..er...wet...and...hardens up in the freezer...unhhh....

I was just trying to figure out if funky well water could be causing your problem, because you can just boil that to fix it.

Now...what's your "capful" like? :D

[tinytoon]

exactly as stated on this 1 lol. the cap of the H2O2 bottle is the cap I mentioned so I will guesstomat about a teaspoon is a capfull :thumbsup:

[tinytoon]

ok I feel really lost in the world of DWC. pics below. Bucket has been running for 4 weeks now and I really expected more by now unless I am just fucking it all up without even knowing which very well could be the case. I guess my big question at the moment would be when was i suppose to drop the water level? I mean when i started I had the water level just below basket and bubles would pop and spry Hydrotron like it was suppose to then when I had about 3 or 4 roots that were in the water I dropped the level about an inch or so ending with water aprox 2" below basket. I know I am only running under 2 100w cfl's and a pair of 24" floruo's but talk about snail slow. open to all input be it good or bad :wtf:

[tinytoon]

/bump

[GetThisOrDie]

im still a little confused about this as well Tiny...

Your brown roots sound like mine... I thought it was from the bat guano FF stuff... Big Bloom. My roots are totally brown and eww looking. Have been for awhile but absolutely no negative effects on my plant. In fact its the best looking plant ive ever had. I also use tap water.

I have my water lvl super low compared to the bottom of the basket... Maybe 8-10" and mine does fine. Id love to hear the proper lvl from some more experienced people.

[disrupt86]

i woud raise your water level,browning of the roots is one of 2 things rot or nutrient stains. deff bring the water level back up to the bottom of the pots,u wont hurt anything.hell thats how i veg cuttings,just a tub of water with vitamine b1 and superthrive.they sit there for about 2 weeks.as long as u have oxygen u wont have a problem.cannazyme will help like some one else sed,it eats old bad roots and causes benneficial bacteria to be released.how far away are your lights.my guess is your lights are 2 far away to really stimulate growth and 2 having the added stress of just trying to stay hydrated.so give it a shot for about a week .put those flouros about an inch or 2 from the top and raise the water level i bet u will see major growth in that time,deff 2/3 inches and much more root mass.if u want to stabalize your rez temps u can buy a seedling heat mat and put it under your bucket,or go to petsmart and buy aquarium heater with a temp controll for like 10 bucks.

[cannamanibus]

i woud raise your water level,browning of the roots is one of 2 things rot or nutrient stains. deff bring the water level back up to the bottom of the pots,u wont hurt anything.hell thats how i veg cuttings,just a tub of water with vitamine b1 and superthrive.they sit there for about 2 weeks.as long as u have oxygen u wont have a problem.cannazyme will help like some one else sed,it eats old bad roots and causes benneficial bacteria to be released.how far away are your lights.my guess is your lights are 2 far away to really stimulate growth and 2 having the added stress of just trying to stay hydrated.so give it a shot for about a week .put those flouros about an inch or 2 from the top and raise the water level i bet u will see major growth in that time,deff 2/3 inches and much more root mass.if u want to stabalize your rez temps u can buy a seedling heat mat and put it under your bucket,or go to petsmart and buy aquarium heater with a temp controll for like 10 bucks.


Are you saying the roots of your veg. plants actually sit in water with an oxygenator?

[GetThisOrDie]

i woud raise your water level,browning of the roots is one of 2 things rot or nutrient stains.

That makes me feel better at least... i kind of figured it was from the big bloom since it looks like chocolate milk and now the roots are brown.

[tinytoon]

the browning of my roots has decieded not to be a problem as a lil H2O2 once or twice a week and we good. res temps run from about 68-72. lights and distance are 2 100w cfl about 20" overhead and 2 24" flouro tubes as side lighting about 12" from plant. water level is about 2" below basket. lights run 18/6. nutes are at 100%, same mix as I use in my E&F. did I forget anything? once again could this slow growth be because I am comparing this setup to my E&F stup running a 400w MH bulb?

[GetThisOrDie]

Maybe they are just stressed a bit from you having to fine tune it? Sounds like a decent amount of light...

When i was experimenting with hydro in a small rez under four 23w CFLs, I had a time when it didnt grow for almost a week because I kept messing with the nutes. Then once it got used to it they exploded.

[tinytoon]

kk ty i'll be looking for the Boom!! :weedpoke:

[DreadedHermie]

distance are 2 100w cfl about 20" overhead and 2 24" flouro tubes as side lighting about 12" from plant

I think your lights are too far away.

TT, I don't know what your 100W CFL's are like. But I usta run a pretty impressive T5 array within 2" of my tops, with some small fans blowing lengthwise along the tubes / in the airspace above the plants. Use the back of your hand cross-referenced against a thermometer and keep the temps at or below 85-87degF at the tops. (The lower sections of the plants will be cooler, unless you're growing in a "tiny" enclosure as well. :))

IMO, the sidelight tubes are unneccessary at this point. Basically, your plants don't really have "sides" to light yet. If you need them for heat, go ahead--the more light the better. But I'd get them as close as I could also, within an inch or two, temps permitting, if you're going to bother with them.

If you have to choose between adding sidelights or positioning your primary overheads correctly, ditch the sidelights. All that "NASA" data about how effective sidelighting is, is misquoted and/or taken out of context. I've read it. A lot of the figures I see bandied about were taken from an annual report that basically said, "Here is what we EXPECT so get next time, if you renew our grant funding." Grant funding was NOT continued, the experiments were never conducted, yet I see these 28-35% improvement figures flung around as gospel. It was a sales pitch, and the claims were NOT substantiated in experiments conducted by D. Hermie & Associates. ;)

Visit a commercial greenhouse. Observe the conspicuous lack of sidelighting. Speak to the resident horticultural expert and prepare to get scoffed at for suggesting such a thing.

But like I said, I don't have a clue what your hundred-watters are. Maybe they can peel paint at a foot away. But they've GOTTA be able to go closer than 20". I've run 400 watt HPS without vented hoods closer than that.

Throw up a picture or some specs on your CFLs and maybe some folks will chime in. (I've used CFLs before, but nothing bigger than the ~46 watt ones with a standard E-26 Edison base.) But get those babies in as close as possible, and get reflective material in place, also--as well as you can without obstructing airflow.


Hermie :hippy:

[disrupt86]

Are you saying the roots of your veg. plants actually sit in water with an oxygenator?

yep,star em in a 35 site bubble cloner,once rooots have formed they go into net pots with hydroten, fill a trey full of soultion about half way up the net pots "right about were the root system should be and i just let em chill with a gh 4 site air pump.when there big enough they go right into flower.

[tinytoon]

well I guess I cant read very well lol. apparently a 23w cfl is equivilent to a 100w reg bulb so I guess I misstated what I had.

[MerryPrankstr]

tinytoon,
I've been reading along with this thread with no idea what's going wrong, so no comment so far. But the difference between 23 watts and 100watts may be part of the key. I totally agree with DH, IMHO they need more light.
I ususally have my Ph around 5.4 and ppm around 350(Milwaukee) when I start to convert from coco pot to net/DWC. I wait until the roots start to run up a 6" pot then transfer them to the 6" net in 5 Gal DWC. The level is 1/4 to 1/2 " until they start to take off, then let it drop down to as much as 4-6" before refilling the rez. I let the ph sweep from 5.4 ish to around 6.2 ish then replace, usually every 2-3 weeks. I Increase the ppm gradually and back off at the first sign of over nuts.

7 weeks and they look like this:

[attachment=o231904]

Laughing Buddha roots...

My :twocents:
M.P.

[tinytoon]

I dropped the overhead light which is the twin cfl's to about 8" from plant which is about as close as I can get (will post pics of setup this week). Have been doing a lil research on some trouble with the way leaves have looked and believe I am having a slight Mag def so to see if am correct or not doing a half dose of epsom salts (read on this board that 1/4 tsp per gal of water is reg treatment) and will keep an eye on leaves for any change. Didnt want to do a full dose since I also read that too much Mag will cause other probs. Yes Cal-mag is on the shopping list but cash flow wont allow it atm

[tinytoon]

Did half dose Epsom salts last week and repeating same this week. Huge diff in plant which started about 2/3 through last week. Pics to come later

[LOC NAR on probation]

Had to use the ebsom myself a few times. The calmag is just easy but the store is an hour away. Brings them back real nice. Waiting for pic's. lol

[LisaDouglas]

Hey Guys,

Thanks so much for all the helpful information in this thread about DWC growing. This is the method I am currently using. Being a complete newbie to growing gets a bit overwhelming at times.

Sadly, Oliver and I have decided to stop our current grow, cut our losses and start over. We have been in flower for over 8 weeks today and the flowers are just not filling in. :( We must have gotten a strain that doesn't like to be indoors (at least I am hoping that was the problem). Hopefully our next grow will go better.

Anyway, thanks again for all your comments and info sharing.

Lisa

[tinytoon]

tell us about your setup and maybe we can help

[tinytoon]

ok finally got a few pics of Momma and ty to all for the input on getting lights closer as I feel this was the big turning point ( rep coming to you DH!). Pic of roots you can see they are getting "stained" by the nutes so I added 2 capfuls of H2O2 and should be clear by tommorrow. She also gave up her first 2 clones on Monday as the 5 we took for our next run were nothing but runts minus 1 so had to pull 2 off her to keep the ball rolling.

[DreadedHermie]

That's a pretty plant.

Off to the races, now that we got our feets in da soup! :thumbsup:

[GetThisOrDie]

She looks great! Grats on getting it dialed in.

[tinytoon]

Ty for the compliments and ty even more for the help along the way. Gonna do 5 of these in the tent under 1 of the 400w tubes next run and see the comparison to E&F I have been doing

[Doc401]

Hiya tinytoon, Best wishes to ya man, i know nothing about this type of grow i am sure i will learn from here..

best of luck man as we all need knowledge..

keep up the good work..:thumbsup:

[tinytoon]

when you have a plant in a 5 gal bucket I know you start with water about an inch below basket and as roots come down you slowly can drop water level, my question is how much water do you end up with at it's lowest point?? I have about 3 gals I start with when I change water out and Sunday will prob change that to 2 1/2 gals. will post some pics later. also it seems that nute stain has gotten the roots again. seems to have started and then water level went down and the roots at the level where the water level was are dark and such and was thinking I could take a spray bottle and rinse and clwean them off, sound like a plan??

[LOC NAR on probation]

Nute stain will always be there. I know you can drop water level but leave it as high as you can and keep it topped up. Roots will love you for it.

[tinytoon]

Kk Loc will do, you not steered me wrong yet :jointsmile:
wait a sec I just read that again and you say nute stain will always be there? then what pry tell is it if H2o2 clears it up?

[LOC NAR on probation]

well either the h2o2 is bleaching them or the start of phytium and the h2o2 cleans it.

[tinytoon]

guess it's time for me to get the crappy camera out again lol :D

[GetThisOrDie]

On my last grow the stain was all the way up to the basket. I figured it was from the guano. It was healthy as all hell though so I didnt worry about it. So im still confused about nute staining or whatever it is referred to as. As long as my plants are healthy then I wont worry too much about it.

[tinytoon]

I agree with the healthy plants, I'm just a glutton for info :jointsmile:

[tinytoon]

so far the first time DWC experiment is going really well. I would like to thank all who gave me hints and advice as far and cant wait to try this in my tent. Momma looks real good though :jointsmile:

[frostedwonder]

Hey TT, This thread should be banned....one could take over the world with this knowledge. It makes me want to get my feet wet DWC style! This was really informative and covered hopefully many of the ups and downs someone goes thru dialing in their system. I now want to try at least one.Thanks for posting it and all that responded.:thumbsup:

[tinytoon]

Hey np Frosty .... just cant wait to see 5 of these in the tent!! :thumbsup:

[ForgetClassC]

I've foudn these buckets are awesome, can't wait to make another myself......

[GetThisOrDie]

She looks great... cant wait to see you fill the tent with them!

[TheCaretaker]

I am running 3 buckets with 2 plants each. they are 2 weeks apart. in a small 2x6x8 closet. i like dwc its simple to use,if something is going wrong you know that day, has very fast growth and my roots look like thick ramen noodles boiling on the stove.:rasta: go dwc on small scale, because any more than 5 or 6 buckets it starts getting tedious and wastefull

harvesting in 9 days(day 50. and day off:smokin:)on 1st batch

[TheCaretaker]

mother plants lookin good TT:thumbsup: nice and healthy. she's going to make excellent clones. soon as the clone roots hit the water in dwc they explode in growth, looks like a new plant everyday, it grows like a "weed":D

[tinytoon]

thank you for the thumbs up and you got some nice looking stuff going there Taker!! :jointsmile:

[GetThisOrDie]

Quick question for you Tiny and everyone else reading this thread....

What kind/size air pump do you use? Im thinking about either putting two pumps to each bucket or possibly looking for greater output pumps... Wanted to see what others are getting results with.

[tinytoon]

believe it or not I'm using just a plain 2 outlet airpump from fish dept at Walmart. Have 2 6" stones in the bucket.

[GetThisOrDie]

I was actually looking at those at walmart lol. I saw the dual output and the one that has a strange shape. I have an extra pump and some stones that im going to add to my current bucket until I get a dual outlet.

[tinytoon]

the 6" stones at Wally World have an end cap so you can link more than 1 together in a chain so to speak, I'm gonna run 2 stones per bucket off 1 line so I will get 2 buckets to each dual outlet pump :thumbsup:




I hope :D

[TheCaretaker]

hey read my thread *DWC* SUPPLIES, SETUP, AND HOW TO'S (MY FIRST GROW). ive put a list of the stuff i researched and tried(also my trial and errors) 8 liters of air a min. is perfect for 5 gal of water/nutes