Yellow leaves

[SWABLR]

Currently have three of my daughters in their third week of flowering and I have yellow leaves showing up. Also, have tested the pH of my soil and find it ranging from 7.0 - 8.0, very alkaline.

I would like to get my pH back in range, 6.0 - 7.0, but do not know how to go about it? Any help you can provide is appreciated.

Below is the Trouble Form I have filled out and I hope that I have provded enough information so that you will see what I have done wrong and what I need to do to correct it.

Thank you,

SWLABR
:)


What is your experience level? First Timer

Your Equipment:
.1) Type and wattage of lights. HPS 400W
.2) Distance from tops? Currently 4"
.3) Reflector type? Enclosed reflector
.4) Is there a consistent fresh air supply? No
.5) Do you have an exhaust fan and a circulation fan? Circulation fan, no exhaust fan
.6) What are the bulb wattages, kelvin ratings, and schedule? 1 x 400W, Hortilux Super HPS, 12 On, 12 Off.

Your medium:
.7) Specific brand and type of soil: River rocks covering the bottom of the pot, fine sand covering the rocks, fine layer of Organicare's PURE organic plant food, followed by Fox Farm Ocean Forest.
.8) Size of container. 10" terra cotta pot
.9) Did you use peat pucks (or similar) to root clones or germinate seedlings? Peat pucks

Your nutrients and water:
10) Source of water? (tap, bottled or filtered) Filtered water from Store. What's it's ph before adjusting? 6.0
11) Method of checking water ph. (ph pen, test strips, aquarium test kit...) Test kit from General Hydroponics
12) Method of adjusting water ph. (phosphoric acid, white vinegar, hydrated lime, PH Up...) PH Up & PH Down from General Hydroponics.
13) Specific brand and N-P-K ratio for each bottle. List dosages (quantity per gallon) and current feeding schedule. Fox Farm Product line, Grow Big (6-4-4) 2 tsp/gal. every watering, Tiger (2-8-4) 2 tsp/gal. every watering, Big Bloom (0.01-0.3-0.7) 1 tbls/gal. every watering, Beastie Bloom (0-50-30) ½ tsp/gal every other watering. Following Fox Farms feeding scheduled for soil
14) How often are you watering between feedings, and how much per watering? Am feeding every watering. Watering every two to four days.
15) Any additives or tea's? (Superthrive, CalMag, molasses, Mother's Earth...) None
16) Are your ph levels stable, or do they fluctuate? No, my soil PH is around 7.0 - 8.0 right now and I do not know how to get it down.
17) What is your ingoing water's ph? ...your runoff ph? Ingoing is 6.0, outgoing is 5.0.
18) Do you foliar feed? If so, with what, how often, and at what time do you spray? No.

Your growroom:
19) Indoors or outdoors? Indoors
20) What size of closet, room or hut? Closet,
21) What are the temps and humidity levels while lights are on? ...Approximately 80F - 90F With lights off? Do not know
22) Have you seen signs of insects in the growroom? Yes, little bastards.

Your strain:
23) What strain are you growing? (Indica dominate or Sativa dom?) Do not know
24) From seeds or clones? Bag seeds
25) Is this an autoflower strain? Do not know.

[irydyum]

16) Are your ph levels stable, or do they fluctuate? No, my soil PH is around 7.0 - 8.0 right now and I do not know how to get it down.
17) What is your ingoing water's ph? ...your runoff ph? Ingoing is 6.0, outgoing is 5.0.


If you are testing your runoff properly, number 17 suggests that your ph is below the 5 range. If you are putting 6.0 in and your soil was 7 or 8, the runoff would come out HIGHER than what you put in, not lower.

http://boards.cannabis.com/plant-problems/153522-soil-runoff-ph-flushing-correct-lockouts-why-how-do.html

Check that link out and let us know what comes out using this method.

[SWABLR]

OK. Perhaps the results I am getting have to do with the way I set up my gorw medium? I started out with river rocks covering the bottom of the pot, followed by a fine sand to cover the tops of the rocks, followed by Organicare plant nutrient and topped off by Fox Farms Ocean Forest soil.

Am guessing here, but is is possible that the sand and the river rocks can change the pH of the run-off? When I have poured clean water into the medium and I examine the run-off there are fine sand particles present when I take my sample for the pH test.

In any event, I will take your advice Irydyum and follow StinkyAttics guidelines for getting proper pH readings and then post them here.

Thank you!
:thumbsup:

[carinia]

I would guess its your organicare! Those long term release nutrients can mess with your feeding schedule. Also, they need to be mixed throughly in the soil, rather than in just a layer. That way the roots don't burn up when they hit that layer!

Also if the ingoing ph is 6, and the outgoing is 5.0, your soil ph is 5.5, which is too low, not to high. The layer of ferts might be messing up your readings there. Where did the 7.0-8.0 readings come from?

[SWABLR]

OK, followed StinkAttics guidelines and have confirmed the following:

1. The pH of the water I am using is in the range of 6.0.
2. After flushing Maureen, she is a daughter of Jane, is also 6.0. But I have to add that the flush was cloudy and did have sand particles in the run-off.

If I want to raise my pH how many drops/gal. do I add to the water?
Conversely, if I want to lower the pH, how many drops do I add per gallon of water?

Thank you again for you help, it is appreciated.

[SWABLR]

Carinia,

The pH readings in the 7.0 - 8.0 came from a cheap instant reader that tests the amount of light beeing shed on the plant in question, the moisture content of the soil and the pH level of the soil. Probably not the best device to rely upon for pH readings. The device was a Home Depot special. :(

[carinia]

Teehee! I used one of those when I first started growing! Yeah those things are crap! Kind of fun to play with, but def. not accurate. :)

You just have to add and test, until you get it to where you want. Get it to about 6.5 and add your nutes.

[SWABLR]

OK, now I get how to alter the pH of my soil! StinkyAttic explained to me!

"Use your commercial PLANT pH up/down- not the kind for pools- ad add it dropwise until the fertilizer solution is at the correct pH for your grow style.
The ideal 'middle' of each range is given here:
Hydro 5.9
Soilless 6.4
Soil 6.7
If you find your soil, for example, is giving a runoff that is too low, water with fert solution that is lightly HIGH- around 7.2- until you see that the runoff is in the correct range. If the runoff is too HIGH (much less common), use ferts at 6.2 until it improves. It's easiest to do this as a flush- all in one shot.
Be careful of shocking the plants with water that is more than a full pH point off their ideal range, even as a flush solution. "

Sweet.

One last questioin to you all if I may?
How much can I trust the General Hydroponics Control Kit for testing the pH of my soil? Is there a/are there better product(s) on the market for this?

I ask because I see members postings stating that a pH of 6.x is the best for growing, but my testing kit only gives me a ballpark idea of where my pH is at.

[irydyum]

Also if the ingoing ph is 6, and the outgoing is 5.0, your soil ph is 5.5, which is too low, not to high.

This is incorrect. If the outgoing is 5.0, the medium would have to be BELOW 5 to lower the water to 5. If the medium were 5.5 and the water is 6.0, how did the water get lower than the medium on the way out????

I would suggest investing in a PH pen. They have a digital readout and also do temperature (most). They require regular calibration, but it's worth the effort. Also try to find one with 2 point calibration rather than one point, they are a little more accurate.

As far as how many drops of PH down to change your solution, that is going to depend on if you are feeding, or if it's straight h2o. I usually add just under 1ml to my nute solution, and it brings it down around half a point. It's going to be hard to be accurate without a digital reading. Some guys can tell with ph strips, or the test solution, not me. Just one less thing for me to screw up with the pen:thumbsup: And I'm all about eliminating operator error when possible:stoned:

[Rusty Trichome]

I use the GH phDown (phosphoric acid) for my 8.0 wellwater. 1/4 tsp per gallon drops the water down to 6.7ish. If you need phDown, you don't need phUp. (and vise-versa)

Would stop layering the components in your medium. The fine sand traps and holds moisture big-time.
The layering of ammendments will, as previously stated, burn the shit out of the plants, and ammending is really unnecessary with the Ocean Forest. (it already has earthworm castings, bat guano, Pacific Northwest sea-going fish and crab meal. Composted forest humus, sandy loam, and sphagnum peat moss) Ammending it further can have adverse effects unless you know how and why you are doing so. (perlite being an exception, depending on the season)

The Ocean Forrest is pre-buffered, so likely the runoff numbers the probe listed were bogus.

I add the drainage rocks to the drip tray, not inside the pot. Easier to stick your finger in the drain hole to determine moisture level, and allows more medium inside the pot for root growth. Tiz easier than picking the rocks during each transplant, too.

Doesn't GH put-out a ph test kit for water? Regardless...a good aquarium ph test kit costs $6 US, but is only good for clear water. They are no good for runoff because the tinting will screw-up the color-coded readings.
A ph pen is the best option and an invaluable tool. If you get the pen, you might also want to get the calibrating solution and the storage solution. (it's much easier than it sounds)

Terra cotta pots are ok for gardening, but the roots can and will find the little pores, (depending on the texture) making transplants a tad frustrating, and can be destructive to the rootball. Tiz a heavier pot to work with, too.

There is a schedule for Fox Farms nutes in my signature. Find it, download it, print it. Feeding should be happening once a week, so no...you are not following the schedule. Plain, properly ph'd water between feedings if necessary.

Lay-off the Beastie Blooms till you get your shit back in line. The FF solubles should only be used on a healthy plant free of other stressors. Otherwise it can do more harm than good. The solubles are quite strong, so use care regardless.

What do the 'little bastards' look like, and where on the plant are you finding them?

Slow down, take a deep breath, and keep learnin. :thumbsup:

[1Wonder]

I use the GH phDown (phosphoric acid) for my 8.0 wellwater. 1/4 tsp per gallon drops the water down to 6.7ish. If you need phDown, you don't need phUp. (and vise-versa)

My tap water(well water) is 7.0 and I have to use PH UP with my Foxfarm Nutes for flower as they drop the PH to around 5.
But when I use my Tapwater just for watering I have been adding a few drops of PH Down to lower it from 7 to around 6.7.
Is This NOT a good thing to be doing as It has been worrying me if I am doing the right thing.

[carinia]

Oops, your right irydyum, I wonder how much I smoked last night to get that math!

[Rusty Trichome]

My tap water(well water) is 7.0 and I have to use PH UP with my Foxfarm Nutes for flower as they drop the PH to around 5.
But when I use my Tapwater just for watering I have been adding a few drops of PH Down to lower it from 7 to around 6.7.
Is This NOT a good thing to be doing as It has been worrying me if I am doing the right thing.
Actually, I've been using FF for a couple of years, and regularly test my ph pen against calibrating solution. I'm confident enough with my numbers to stand by 'em, give or take a .05 range either way for different batches, age of product, different testing methods...

What do you use to test your ph? FF bringing it down to 6.5 I could understand, but 5.0 is unthinkable under normal dilutions.

From experience...If my tapwater ws 7.0 and I used Fox Farms, I doubt I would feel a need to adjust the water one way nor the other, unless additives added to this ph shift. Stuff like Botanicare Sweet and CalMag Plus are very acidic, molasses is slightly acidic...and I'd likely account for that in some way. But the FF line itself should be fine with tapwater at 7.0 ph.

[1Wonder]

I have 2 Milwalke PH600 pens and have cal soultion. I use about 2tsp Tiger Bloom and 1 TBl spoon Big Bloom to gallon of 7.0 water and it was like PH 4.9 before I added about a good tsp+ of GH PH UP just to bring it up . I will start watering without adding PH Down from now on.My plants are outside 1 Hermey and 1 nice 5'+ Female and both look healthy and sooo close to harvest.
Thanks for the help as always.

[SWABLR]

Rusty,

The little bastards look like gnats or little flies. They are dancing in my soil and prancing up and down the main stem of my two mothers.

Have used pH Up on my three daughters in an attempt to raise the pH of the run-off from the current 6.0.

My two mothers have a runn-off of 8.0. Have been watering them with RO water with a pH of 6.0. Should I be using pH down on these two or would I be better off flushing with the straight RO water at 6.0?

Thank you again!

:)

[irydyum]

Have used pH Up on my three daughters in an attempt to raise the pH of the run-off from the current 6.0.


:)

I hope you mean adding pH Up to the water, and not adding it to the soil. Reads a little funny, and makes a MONSTER difference.

[SWABLR]

No, I added the pH Up to the RO water I use, which has a pH of 6.0.

:thumbsup:

[Rusty Trichome]

Rusty,

The little bastards look like gnats or little flies. They are dancing in my soil and prancing up and down the main stem of my two mothers. Get some Raid, (strips) and clean-up any leaf litter in the pots. :thumbsup:


Have used pH Up on my three daughters in an attempt to raise the pH of the run-off from the current 6.0.
My two mothers have a runn-off of 8.0. Have been watering them with RO water with a pH of 6.0. Should I be using pH down on these two or would I be better off flushing with the straight RO water at 6.0?
Not too sure about the use of phUp, but am curious how long it lasts in the soil. Did you use it previously with the mothers'? If so, it might still be raising the ph on ya. I would flush once (2:1 water:volume) with properly ph'd water, (6.3 to 6.7ish) and go from there. I try to never purposefully raise or lower the ph out-of-range. Sometimes necessary, but not recommended.

Good luck.