Waterfarm 8

[DelCerro]

Hi..., and thanks in advance for your help. I have read a lot on these forums and now have questions of my own ;-) ...

I have an indoor growing room with a waterfarm 8 using hydroton and GH nutes. I am on my first crop which was started from plants that were almost 2months old as a friend was growing them for me as I put my room together.

I lost a couple during the transition do to the roots not catching in the hydroton (the rockwool the plants came in too big..., learning lesson ;-)

I am beginning the 3rd week of flowering (using 2-1000's running 12/12) and all 6 plants are flowering except 2 of the plants are drooping (mainly the fan leaves...) and have been for a couple of weeks...

My question is that I am not sure if it is too much water or not enough.., and reading in the different forums here it is hard to tell (as most with drooping problems described are not hydro).... I have tried experimenting with both (less and more water) but I really haven't turned it off for a long period of time as I am scared to ruin my crop at this point in the process ;-) ...

I am leaning towards they were receiving too much water, but want some advice... I am currently watering 2 hours on and 1 hour off.

FYI, tonight (when the lights come back on) I am adding the circulation kit as I think the water would be better if it circulated (mixed) throughout the system (from pot to pot).

So first question... Can you overwater? and if so, what does it look like?

Second Question? Do I have to outside fresh air into the room (besides the times I go in and out during the day)? meaning, I do have a line in with a hepa filter but haven't been using it as it is over 90 degrees outside..., and I already have to keep portable (large) AC running in that room (most of the time around the clock) to keep things cool... I keep the room at 75-78 degrees and 50% humidity (I have a dehumidifier).. So, I want to hold off running the hepa filter (and bringing in the hot air) until I need to use the can filter (to filter the odor when necessary)...

Third question, I am going to want to expand after I harvest this time and am looking for the latest technologies (systems) and was wondering what new methods are emerging as the most consistent with larger yields? â?¦

Thx again.
DelCerro

[SpaceNeedle]

Before you think you want to expand, you should have a few crops under your belt with your waterfarm.
Your water level in your buckets should come right up to the bottom of the try that your hydroton sits in. I would also keep it running 24/7 as long as they are in hydroton.
I am assuming you have a PPM/EC meter. IF you don't RUN to the nearest store and get one. You should be around 1000 -1200 PPM at this stage. Check the 2 plants that are not doing well if they have rockwool in them, because then that may well be the problem they are not doing well. Rockwool holds water so much that it will drown the roots in a system like yours.

You don't have to bring in additional fresh air from the outside if its hotter than what it is in your A/C'd room. You will be short on CO2 in there, but that is not much worry about now, but may be in the future.

I think the waterfarm system is an excellent system for anyone to get their feet wet in. Don't even consider going to another system until you have this one down pat.

Spaceneedle

[DelCerro]

Hi Spaceneedle... thx for your quick reply.

I just added the circulation system to the waterfarm. It seems to move the water, but slowly..., which is still better than it was..

I raised the level of water in the buckets (it is about 1/4-1/2 inch from bottom of upper bucket.., and put it on 24x7.

My Hanna meter is being replaced (under warranty). I should have it back next week.. I am running about 1200ppm... (with the same mixture I have been using). As mentioned, I make RO water once per week.

I think you are right, the problem is the rockwool, it stays wetter than the stones, but I think I am stuck with it (the rockwool) as I think it would be too much trauma to get rid of it now (but I know for the next time ;-) .. Am I wrong, should I get rid of some of it? or will that be to traumatic?

I am getting a CO2 kit and will use it soon.

How many is the most buckets you have seen with a waterfarm?

How about ebb and flow?

My room is 12 x 12 and I want to max out my growth...

Thx again

[LOC NAR on probation]

You can under water but not in hydro if your roots are in the water.

There is no such thing as overwatering. It's drowning. How do we explane hydro ? It is the duration of the saturation of the rootball. It rains for days outside.

If you are going to run co2 you don't need out side air.

Be carefull. No co2 in a living area. It can flood a house and kill everyone.
Been there, almost tragic.

Two 1000's. I would just keep adding waterfarms or 5 gallon buckets maybe cheaper.

[DelCerro]

As mentioned, I added the circulation kit last night... Today two of the plants are looking worse... I hope it was the trauma they went through ... I included photos...

[SpaceNeedle]

Hi Spaceneedle... thx for your quick reply.

I just added the circulation system to the waterfarm. It seems to move the water, but slowly..., which is still better than it was..

I raised the level of water in the buckets (it is about 1/4-1/2 inch from bottom of upper bucket.., and put it on 24x7.

My Hanna meter is being replaced (under warranty). I should have it back next week.. I am running about 1200ppm... (with the same mixture I have been using). As mentioned, I make RO water once per week.

I think you are right, the problem is the rockwool, it stays wetter than the stones, but I think I am stuck with it (the rockwool) as I think it would be too much trauma to get rid of it now (but I know for the next time ;-) .. Am I wrong, should I get rid of some of it? or will that be to traumatic?

I am getting a CO2 kit and will use it soon.

How many is the most buckets you have seen with a waterfarm?

How about ebb and flow?

My room is 12 x 12 and I want to max out my growth...

Thx again

I've seen my own starters with rockwool struggling to keep from drowning in the beginning.... I've just quit using rockwool altogether. Ebb and Flow, and drip are also fine once homed in. I use e/f in vegging and the drip in fowering... but there's nothing wrong with your kind of system. I know someone that's had 45 or 50 of them burping away. I believe the biggest drawback is trying to keep the temps down in the water, simply because you have EIGHT small containers (buckets) under the sun each container holding 3 gal, and lots of small lines moving it all under the lights. Where the others such as EbbFlow may have ONE reservoir of 30 not open to the direct heat of the light(s). On those pics, you can chuck the one on the left, it will not recover if its been like that for a day. The other one should make it.

SpaceNeedle

[DelCerro]

Once again SpaceNeedle, thank you for your time and input... I appreciate info...

The plants have only looked real bad since last night... I think they will recover (I am an optimist ;-) ... If not, chalk it up to the learning experience (which is why you want me to get more practice before I expand... thx for that advice ;-)

The plants that are remaining look happy and are giving me a lot of nice looking buds.. I am sure my first cycle will be fruitful and rewarding. I think the real problem with this cycle, in addition to me being a novice, is the plants were growing (begining veg) for me by someone else as I was getting my system together (not to mention I was visiting friends in Holland ;-) ... he grows in Rockwool (and large pieces) which isn't my choice.. he cut away a lot of it when transplanted to the hydroton, but I feel the issue is with how much water they hold compared to the clay rocks.., so I am really not happy with the root system... the next cycle will be with smaller plants that I can control longer and get a much better root system.

You are exactly right about the water (temp).. small buckets, hot lights, etc... I guess I could insulate the tubing between buckets (and maybe should)...

But, to me, more importantly if you want to do something to the water..., you can't without throwing out the entire batch (and nutes).., (because the water is in 8 (or 50) containers..., but if you had it all in one place between feedings..., you are in control (which is why I am thinking I need to change especially if I want to go from 8 plants to 48...


I want to plan now for my growth.. I am not worried about having to keep (or not keep) what I currently have including the waterfarm as I have a friend who could use it (who wants a limited growth).. but, here is the question..., if you had a 12 x 12 room with 8 foot ceiling (and closet at one end that we use for air in and out and electric), what would system would you put in place (to..., of course maximize the output ;-)

BTW, I have access to air in and out and water already in the room... I was thinking of trying to get the ballasts out of the room, (maybe on my deck outside) but would prefer to keep everything self contained.... The lights are air cooled (using insulated ducting where needed). The AC is a portable unit (12BTU), which seems to have to run most of the day... I have a dehumidifier as the room was 75% humidity (and higher)...

Thx
DC

[SpaceNeedle]

I have run buckets, but they were not waterfarm. My buckets had airstones in them, and then I had the water circulating. Then I was in a grow shop one day and saw the waterfarm, and a salesperson showed me the principles on how they work. Well, mine were 5 gal home depot buckets, so I tried to get just the tube that waterfarm uses and it was just not built for round buckets. Their sizing was also such that you could not adapt them with anything from Home Depot, so I decided to make my own. I think you might find a pic of what I built in my gallery. It worked better FOR ME and my buckets than the ones I bought from Waterfarm.
About a year ago I went to drippers. Basically a 4'x4' tray maybe 8" high. Using one on the floor as a reservoir, then I have a couple of 2x4s across them and an identical tray on top that holds the plants. I have 15 pots in there, each about 10" high, a pond pump in the reservoir brings the nutes up onto a 1/2" pvc pipe that runs the around the edge of the top 4'x4' tray. From there I have the small 1/4" tubing going to each pot. NO Drippers, I just turn on the pump and let her rip. Nutes run thru the pots drain out the bottom and then the tray drains back into the res... Works great, keeps the water temps nice, I can move the position of the plants anytime... I really like it.
I used to be in the HVAC biz, and if you want to have a room with A/C, you should have an independent system, and you need 5000BTU for each 1000W light. Depending where you live (climate), it may make sense. But, if you are running 5 1000W lights, that means you need a 2 Ton A/C. An A/c that size will consume about 20 amps. For 20 amps I can run 2 1/2 lights (1000W each), so I'm trying to avoid that. Not that it wouldn't be nice to have, but I don't want my electric bill being 3x what my neighbors use.

SpaceNeedle

[DelCerro]

Well, my optimism kicked my butt... the plant you told me to pull is listening to your experience and not my 'hope'... ;-) ... they definitely experienced a lot of trauma during the addition of the circulation kitâ?¦ ... I am disappointed... I should have waited to add the circulation until after the harvest...

You are right, trying to put the same connectors that they use on a round bucket would be tough (or impossible), and for sure would leak...

I like the sounds of your setup..... do you have a photo of it?

How tall do you let the plants get when they grow that close together?

Maybe I didn't notice it, but what medium are you growing in?

DC

[SpaceNeedle]

Well, my optimism kicked my butt... the plant you told me to pull is listening to your experience and not my 'hope'... ;-) ... they definitely experienced a lot of trauma during the addition of the circulation kitâ?¦ ... I am disappointed... I should have waited to add the circulation until after the harvest...

You are right, trying to put the same connectors that they use on a round bucket would be tough (or impossible), and for sure would leak...

I like the sounds of your setup..... do you have a photo of it?

How tall do you let the plants get when they grow that close together?

Maybe I didn't notice it, but what medium are you growing in?

DC

Well, you MIGHT have been able to save that one. It had a lot of green (leaves and branches) on that plant that you were trying to keep alive. You could have cut the green WAY back. If you had done that, your plant may have been able to send its energy it had left to what green you had not cut. In other words, it would have given the rest of the plant a chance to rebuild.

My plants are about 12" high when they go into flowering. Yes, and the medium is hydroton. You can only run a 1/4" line with no drippers unless you use it or something comparable, or they would drown. Drippers work also, but you would need a filter in your lines to keep them from plugging up. I'll try to take a pic of my tray setup when the lights are on.
The buckets like yours are very thin plastic, and so even the buckets should be insulated to keep them as cool as possible. I've even seen insulated tops on them with just the plant sticking out to keep the nutes cool.

SpaceNeedle

[DelCerro]

SpaceNeedle... Thx for your time and input... is it possible to talk to you on the phone? Maybe you can send me your number @ [email protected] ...? or if you send me your eMail address I could send you mine (just don't want to post it here on the forum ;-) ..

If not, I will ask more q's here..., but think a call might help me better..

[DelCerro]

Hi SpaceNeedle... Question... I just read this sticky... If you use RO or distilled water you NEED CalMag Plus... About 2 weeks into the grow cycle, I started tu use RO water because the PPM were 400-600 from the city... I am using GH (for hard water).. I am NOT adding CalMag Plus... do you suggest I get some?

Thx
MB

[headshake]

if you are running RO or distilled water you absolutely have to use calmag+. they both have most of the beneficial micronutes removed, ergo you have to supplement.


-shake