New Induction Grow light

[RackitMan]

Note to moderator: If this is considered spam and against the rules, then I apologise, but I thought this may be of major interest to all growers.

I am in contact with the manufacturer of the only induction light specifically designed for plant growth and am trying to get this product off the ground and see if it meets the needs of the cannabis community. If there is interest I would be looking for both testers and investors for the USA.

Here are the pros of this new light:

1. Low heat. No venting required. Will not burn plants.

2. No fans built-in or required.

3. Light spectrum designed specifically for plant growth.

4. Extremely long life. Only 35% lumen loss after 100,000 hours. Twice that of LEDs.

5. Five year guarantee. Repairs after that time are not to exceed 50% of the price paid.

6. No supplemental light required. Designed for both vegetative and flowering dues to strong output at blue and red; yet all of the lesser frequencies are covered.

Induction lighting actually goes back 100 years to the time of Tesla and has been used for high output commercial lighting for decades. It is somewhat similar to fluorescent in that the bulb contains a sealed tube with rare gases and specifically chosen phosphor coatings.

As there are no electrodes to heat up and cool off like a standard fluorescent, there is very little material decay. The gasses are stimulated by a strong magnetic induction field; thus no wires or contacts to the bulb itself.

Initial testing indicates that a 200 watt induction light will meet or exceed the growth shown by a 300 watt triband LED grow light.

The costs are lower than that of comparable high-power LEDs, but more than HID.

These units are solidly designed with no flimsy or short-cut components.

There are 200, 300 and 400 watt models coming, with only the 200 and 300 watt models currently available.

Pictures and spectral graph coming in the next post.

FYI, I am not a salesman, but a grower like yourselves. I cannot yet vouch for this product until I and more experienced growers get a few harvests under their belts, but it could be a very exciting business and horitcultural adventure.

Manufacturer will offer a significant buy-back to initial buyers that do not think the light is adequate for their needs. They are willing to lose money to gain the future market share.

If enough people are interested, I may present a group buy proposal to my contact.

[frostymcfailure]

Induction lighting actually goes back 100 years to the time of Tesla and has been used for high output commercial lighting for decades. This is what truly sparked my interest. I've been doing research on this man since i was very young & would love to see how these turn out. I am willing to try one under a battery of extensive testing and let you know how it turns out. If i like the results i'd also be interested in investing & talking to some supply vendors i know to carry this product. Have any of these been through a run yet & if so what were the results. Also, what is the name of this type of lighting & what color does it appear to the naked eye.

[RackitMan]

The light ouput is about 85% usable by the plant as compared to about 15-20% (?) for HPS.

Notice the full red spectrum from orange and on into far red with very little wastage in the yellow and green and a nice bump on the low frequencies which includes blue, royal blue and cyan. The light appears pink/lavender to human eyes.

Unit size is roughly 8" deep * 24" * 15" and weighs 22-25 pounds.

Initial studies in Chinese Universities look promising and I have requested the papers, but we all know that we need experienced growers stateside with well-documented grows on our favorite plant to do a real-world proof of concept.

I like the fact that this is a new application, but a well-proven technology in commercial lighting. The phosphor coating specifically designed for plants is mainly what is proprietary.

The rectangle with the U-Bend tube in the lower right attachment is what the output looks like.

[Swansen]

i found these not to long ago, and the fact that Nikola Tesla is behind the invention of the light speaks volumes.... you really have to wonder though, where have these lights disappeared to over the years?? Anyways, if i had a spare 3hundy laying around i would pick up one of those 200w units. Of which, they are VERY pricey, but i guess what do you do.

bump for an amazing product

[Bubbleblower]

Hey, I did the same thing you did :thumbsup: and ordered these lamps.

Some companies have induction lights especially for flowering, that have for example been tested here (http://www.wietforum.nl/index.php?showtopic=18247&hl=inductie) (in Dutch, but the pictures are very clear).
But any company can produce them if you order enough. They just play with phosphor-mixtures till they find the right one.

You should be able to get 300 watt complete for less than $ 150,= FOB Shanghai.

[RackitMan]

Do you have a source for such a low price? I would be most interested.

An industrial induction light has the wrong spectrums and while it would still grow plants, would not be very efficient.

[bigdutchman]

I have been reading a bit about the induction lighting. I would be interested in hearing pricing, wattage, form factor, etc. LED lights seem to suffer from a lack of full spectrum, where the induction lights do not.

bigdutchman

[knna]

Very interesting, RackitMan. Thanks too Bubbleblower for the aditional info.

At what lamp power correspond the spectral distribution graph posted? Any link to more complete technical info about the lamp?

[NeverEnough]

150$ is cheap?

You can buy 8 23 watt cfls for 15$ and that purduces 12800 lumens enough to properly light a 4 foot plant with good results.

[headshake]

150$ is cheap?

You can buy 8 23 watt cfls for 15$ and that purduces 12800 lumens enough to properly light a 4 foot plant with good results.


well let's see.....



[I]

1. Low heat. No venting required. Will not burn plants.

CFLs put out a good deal of heat. they actually put out more heat than HIDs.

2. No fans built-in or required.

3. Light spectrum designed specifically for plant growth.

4. Extremely long life. Only 35% lumen loss after 100,000 hours. Twice that of LEDs.

CFLs need to be replaced every six months at least as they wear out easily. HID bulbs also need to be replaced about the same i believe.

LEDs should theoretically never burn out, but they loose light output after 50,000 hours or so.

5. Five year guarantee. Repairs after that time are not to exceed 50% of the price paid.

6. No supplemental light required. Designed for both vegetative and flowering dues to strong output at blue and red; yet all of the lesser frequencies are covered.

this will have to be determined.





-shake

[romo76]

[quote=RackitMan]I am in contact with the manufacturer of the only induction light specifically designed for plant growth and am trying to get this product off the ground and see if it meets the needs of the cannabis community. If there is interest I would be looking for both testers and investors for the USA.

I definitely be interested in testing 3 x 300w induction light(s) (or 1-400w & 2-300w depending on lumens output) and releasing the results weekly with photos. I have clones rooted under low watt LED's and will be ready to go in the next 1-2week.

Contact me and lets light it up.

Cheers:thumbsup:

[MerryPrankstr]

There are 7 of the lights on eBay right now.

M.P.

[romo76]

Seen them on ebay...thats why I started looking around for input. Price seems steep with no real results on-line to review. $450-$500 seems more reasonable for the 300w and have an independent tester to produce results with pix for the rest of the community. Willing to test it out though for the right price.

Any other sellers for less $$$ or results posted you can point too?

[phoenix137]

Are you referring to the Super Grow Light made by M-Land? I'm definately interested... could you contact me with details?

[bigdutchman]

I've ordered the 300W light from M-Land. It should arrive in the next week or so. I plan to put it into operation as soon as possible, I'm not sure if I want to do a side-by-side comparison, but I should be able to tell on a more general nature how the light is doing.

Based on what I have read, the 300W is equivalent to a 1000 -1200W LED, which is supposed to be equivalent to a MegaWatt HID :pimp:

It has half the energy consumption of my 600W HPS but should have a much higher level of usable light for photosynthesis. Watt for watt, the inductance light looks very promising.

I'll keep everyone updated,
bigdutchman

[overdose42024]

I've ordered the 300W light from M-Land. It should arrive in the next week or so. I plan to put it into operation as soon as possible, I'm not sure if I want to do a side-by-side comparison, but I should be able to tell on a more general nature how the light is doing.

Based on what I have read, the 300W is equivalent to a 1000 -1200W LED, which is supposed to be equivalent to a MegaWatt HID :pimp:

It has half the energy consumption of my 600W HPS but should have a much higher level of usable light for photosynthesis. Watt for watt, the inductance light looks very promising.

I'll keep everyone updated,
bigdutchman

i just read that a 300w is actually like a 600w LED. how much did you pay?

[oldmac]

Has anybody really looked at MLand's site? :wtf:

The 300w "super grow light" specs are truly awefull. They claim that 96% of the light produced is useable by a plant...I guess PAR watts here would be 288w. But then it says it produces Red, Blue and GREEN! I don't know what the rest of you are growing but my plants don't need green, in fact they can't see it.
Now I know when dealing with PAR that lumens are a poor choice for measurement, but they list lumen output at 30Lm/watt. That means total output for a 300w light is just 9,000 lumens.:(
Note also they are the mfg behind a bunch of crap LED lights that are way over hyped...do yoou think they might be over hyping this light toooo?

As my dad always said, "If something is too good to be true, it probably is"
:D

[bigdutchman]

Has anybody really looked at MLand's site? :wtf:

...it says it produces Red, Blue and GREEN! I don't know what the rest of you are growing but my plants don't need green:D

I looked at the spectrum the light puts out, and it has a small spur in the green area, but it is almost insignificant. I'm not sure what the 30lm/W is because others list inductance at a much higher level.

Agree, if it's too good to be true... but I decided to take the plunge. I paid $525 for the 300W light FOB my doorstep. The killer here is the shipping, they are charging $105, which is crazy. I couldn't talk him down. I'm going to do a grow test, and if it works, then I will work a deal with him to cut shipping. He wants the money up front which means I would have to order about $25,000 in lights to get a discount and will probably have to deal with the shipping and duty fees myself. Hmmmm... :stoned:

The light arrives this Friday, so stay tuned...
bigdutchman

[knna]

Yeah, oldemac, I had the same question, thus I asked RackitMan to what lamp power correspond the SPD graph posted, which has scale so it can be calculated.

When they say 96 or 85% of the light may be used by the plant it means its into the PAR range. It not mean the 96% of the watts consumed are delivered as light. Probably, the efficiency of the lamps is about 25%. If its 30%, it would be excelent.

Id wait to some more detailed specs. Can you link the manufacturer page, so I can read whatever technical info they have avalaible?

[oldmac]

Hey knna,
Here's the link to them: Shanghai M_land Industrial Corp.,Ltd Take notice of the LEDs, much of what you see on e-bay and from bs marketers of crap LEDs originate here.

Hello bigdutchmen,
I hope I'm wrong about those lights for your sake, so I look forward to your getting them, trying them and then reporting back to us. I looked at induction lights abt 15 years ago and to me there were just fancy fluorecents that had large (at that time) ballasts that could not be remotely mounted, I passed on them then.

As to spectrums provided by chinese companies, I need to pass this on to everybody. When I was building my first hi-powered LED light I had purchased 250 Red 2w Cree's 635nm since I knew them to work well (660nm red was not available) and to combine them with white LEDs. I had done alot of research on LEDs at the time and noticed most whites were driven by a blue die that excited the phosphor. The spectrum output was a blue spike at about 460nm and then a larger sweep covering the spectrums up to reds. I decided to cheapen up the design by using white diodes fron China. I had contacted a couple of mfgs with what I was looking for and one company, from Shanghai, sent me back a quote and included a spectrum analysis of the LEDs and it was exactly what I was looking for. I purchased 100 1w diodes and built my light. First run trying the light was a complete f-up, plants stretched so much they hit the glass enclosure (only have 24" clearence) of the light. I immediately realized I was lacking blue big time. I wound up sending a couple of the white diodes to someone for spectrum analysis and the resulting graph was no where near what was originally sent to me. They completely lacked any usable blue. I wound up rebuilding the light but used T5s full spectrum fluros instead of the LEDs. A couple of weeks later while going thru LED specs again I came across the EXACT spectrum I had been sent, it was on the Luxeum site. The bastards had copied it, put thier name and chinese characters on it and called it thiers. I've had a grudge against chinese crap since then.

[knna]

Hi, bubbas,

thank you for enlighting us a little more about these lamps. You data seems unbeatable. Its being difficult for me to believe that induction fluorescent lamps gets 133lm/W with 300W and 150lm/W at 400W of power. As those fluorescent spectrums emits less lm per PAR light output, it would mean that they are surpassing HPS in energy efficiency by a large margin. But it fall into what is possible technically, and I would love to confirm it.

The 300 and 400W includes all the power that the lamps burns, or just the consuption of the bulb? Meaning, those lm/W figures I have calculated based on your data, are wall plug efficiencies?

In that case, its an amazing perfomance!

Lm emission figures are backed with some measurement, or are they just what the manufacturer says that they emits? The graph posted by Rackitman seems to be extracted from an integrated sphere's measurement. If so, it surely will confirm those figures.

2000 micromols of photons/sq meter at 3ft is an overkill figure for sure. It was measured on an small cab using refflective walls? Because if its on a open room, it would be too much. Cannabis gets photosynthetically saturated between 1800-2000uE/m2 on the usual temperature ranges. So it would mean that the lamp must be used 3ft away from plants, and I dont think this is correct.

Please, may you detail a bit further irradiance figures from the quantum meter? How is possible that they peaks away from the bulb? I think im missing something here.

Sorry if I do so many questions, but it seem a very interesting lamp and I would like to confirm its not due to marketing hype but due it actually an excelent lamp.

How hot it runs? It would be possible to put it between plants? Letting some distance, of course. Im thinking on vertical setups. But probably built in reflector must be attached to the bulb, as it contains the induction engine. Is this correct?


Anyway, Id love to see a journal or something like that about tests in course. You prove movement by walking. Is it being avalaible somewhere?

[bubbas]

Hi Knna,
The figures for the output is from the manufacturer. I contact them to verify the figures and my mistake, the listed lumin output was Plm/w. The efficiency is actually 95lm/w. I don't know what plm/w differs from lm/w from what i gather it stands for pupil lumin so i think it has something to do with visable light. As for the PAR light, i used a quantum light meter and started off about 4 ft. away and moved closer until the meter peaked and also measured lux output with a second meter. i'm used to measuring and determining light out for commercial applcations and have limited experience with plant lighting having said that i do understand what plant lighting requirments are. The ballast for these lights draw about 25 watts so the actual wattage for these lights are the wattage of the bulb only.The ballast are not really ballast they are a frequency generator because this type of bulb is electrodless and works by frequency to excite the phosphours to produce light.
your question about the heat output, i have no actual data on what they produce. I can tell you that you can touch them without getting a burn. They do run pretty warm though. You can only hold them for 5-10 seconds before it gets uncomfortable. So you question about running them vertically is yes you can as long as there about at least 10 inches away.
My test will be finnished in about a month. i will post pictures as soon as i get them.
Induction lights are not anything new. I ran across them about ten years ago at a lighting fair in Hong Kong. They have been in use in Asia and europe for a long time for steet lights and other applications. I don't know why us North Amercans are so slow at adopting new technolgy.
As a side note. We have found a supplier of microwave sulphur plasma lights.We hope to test them too for horticulture applications. If you are not familar with them these are also an electrodless lighting system that uses a megatron to produce micowaves to excite the gasses to produce light. These are the most effiecient lights available (130LM/W) and produce the closest light spectrum to sunlight than any other artificial light source. Up until now these lights where very expensive running around $3000 and up each! We hope to bring the price down closer to $1500. There is an interesting article on them an experiment on growing cucumbers. They compared 1- 1000 watt MSP lamp to six 400 watt MH bulbs. In 14 days the MPS plants were more than twice as big! I am bringing one in to test. stay tuned.

[knna]

Thanks again for clarifying it, bubbas.

95 lm/W for a 2700K spectrum is more reasonable for the efficiencies of induction fluorescents actually running. It may be realistic, as its a little better than other models running, but no for a large margin. I tend to take with a grain of salt large improvements on efficacy when they arnt backed with measurements :wtf:

That improvement (from the 75-85 lm/W of most induction light Im aware of) maybe due to use a high wattage unit. Maybe manufacturer is exaggerating a little.

There is no any definition of plants lm, so its an unmeangliful figure. It would depend on what "plant sensibility" curve is used.

25W for the ballast is very reasonable for a 300-400W unit. Some electrodeless lamps, as Luxims ones, have a problem with the ballast efficiency, at least at medium wattages. Including it, the 300W units drops to a total wall plug efficiency of 87lm/W, which is still good, on the level of HO T5's. But its clear that these 300 or 400W units achieves way higher intensities than T5s can provide.

I have a sheet of the measurement of a 6450K induction fluorescent lamp of 300W (actually, 312W, but as its in chinese, I dont know if its the bare bulb or it includes the RF ballast), I dont know if its of this lamp or one very similar, the lamp is coded ZX-HX 300W. It gets 23881.5 lm (76.5lm/W) and 80.9 PAR Watts, about 337 micromols of PAR photons per second.

What still surprises me is the quantum meter with 2000uE/m2 max peaking at 3ft from the bulb. With a similar quantum output than the HPS lamp, they shouldnt peak at very different distances. But from 1.5 to 3ft is a very large difference. 2000uE/m2 is about 125000lux of sunlight (and 170Klux of HPS), a very high figure that obligues to wear sunglasses.

Perhaps was it due by very different reflector shapes? It would point up to the induction unit concentrating light below the bulb a lot more than the HPS does. At first view, the induction reflector not seems to concentrate the light so much. But sometimes reflectors do different to one may think just by a visual inspection.

Did you measure how was the light distribution along an horizontal plane below the lamp? It would be very useful to know how the reflector is distributing the light, and will provide context to the measurement on the vertical plane.

Looking forward for pics of the test :thumbsup:

[JackdaWack]

What prices would one be looking at to purchase a 300watt?

[bubbas]

Hey Jackdewack,
Our 300 watters are available in 2700K, 6400K or the purple full spectrum. All are 120 Volt and are $480
Thanks

[Gamblorman]

how many effective square feet does one unit cover? I'm looking to cover 9 to 16 square feet.

[dextr0]

Hey, I did the same thing you did :thumbsup: and ordered these lamps.

Some companies have induction lights especially for flowering, that have for example been tested here (http://www.wietforum.nl/index.php?showtopic=18247&hl=inductie) (in Dutch, but the pictures are very clear).
But any company can produce them if you order enough. They just play with phosphor-mixtures till they find the right one.

You should be able to get 300 watt complete for less than $ 150,= FOB Shanghai.

how did this light turn out grow wise??

[squarepush3r]

really interested in this stuff, would like to hear more updates or grow reports.

[squarepush3r]

bump, is 400W model available?

[bubbas]

Hi Guys,
Finnally got some pics.
As i expected the purple spectrum did not do as good as the 2700K. The purple vegged very nice and kept up with the 6400K, but when it went to bud it fell way short. The first pic is a side by side, the second is the purple Mland. bud and the ones in the yellow light is the 2700K. We vegged with 6400K and budded with 2700K VS. veg and bud with purple Mland.
As you can see the yield is no where near the 2700K. Both set ups where 300 watt induction. We believe the 400 watter will keep up with a 1000HPS as the 300's are just shy compared to 1000hps. Stay tuned.
Anyone interested in them contact me, i'll be placing an order soon as we are all sold out. these pics are only at about 7 weeks. I'll be posting more pics when complete with yield numbers

[squarepush3r]

Hi Guys,
Finnally got some pics.
As i expected the purple spectrum did not do as good as the 2700K. The purple vegged very nice and kept up with the 6400K, but when it went to bud it fell way short. The first pic is a side by side, the second is the purple Mland. bud and the ones in the yellow light is the 2700K. We vegged with 6400K and budded with 2700K VS. veg and bud with purple Mland.
As you can see the yield is no where near the 2700K. Both set ups where 300 watt induction. We believe the 400 watter will keep up with a 1000HPS as the 300's are just shy compared to 1000hps. Stay tuned.
Anyone interested in them contact me, i'll be placing an order soon as we are all sold out. these pics are only at about 7 weeks. I'll be posting more pics when complete with yield numbers

hey Bubbas

I tried contacting your website a few times, but never heard anything back from the email linked I sent.

Can i buy 400w / 500w lights? Would be interested in testing a few, respond here if you can, or to my email sent last week to your website, thanks!

[bubbas]

Hey Squarpush,
Sorry i didn't get your message. I been responding to so many inquiries lately. We are out of stock right now with the exception of a few 6400 and purple spec lights. We will be ordering a shipment soon. We were very reluctant to sell something we wern't sure how well they work and was waiting for some definite positive results, Please email me again and sorry for the wait.

[squarepush3r]

Hey Squarpush,
Sorry i didn't get your message. I been responding to so many inquiries lately. We are out of stock right now with the exception of a few 6400 and purple spec lights. We will be ordering a shipment soon. We were very reluctant to sell something we wern't sure how well they work and was waiting for some definite positive results, Please email me again and sorry for the wait.

thank, i just sent an email. probably interested in the more effective model (2800?) and high wattage, so 300 400 500 (more the better).

You can get back when you have stock or whenever available.

[xtcsdp]

Curious if anything has come of this lighting? Did you get a chance to test it? Any additional info would be appreciated.

Thanks

[xtcsdp]

Do your lights "really" work... please tell me more.

Thanks

[squarepush3r]

from what i read, speaking with someone good on the industry, he said there is only 1 spectrum Induction light. So its strange that you say you have different spectrum models of this induction lighting, since I thought it all came from the same manufacturer?

[bubbas]

Hi guys,
XTXSDP please check photos on previous posts on how they are working.
squarepush these are a type of fluorescent and of course there are as many color spectrums available as any other type of fluorescent. Your "someone good" in the industry is only trying to sell one type of light the purple one. Infact there are even two different purple spectrum available. The one we tested was suppose to be the better of the two. Induction lights have been around for over 15 years and we are now only exploring them for the horticultral industry. so to say that there is only one color of induction light is foolish.

[bubbas]

To futher my previous post, the reason i'm posting is becuase we don't want to see induction lights get a bad name because someone markets the wrong product with "induction" name and having it not perform good. I just want to prove to you all that the purple spectrum is not the way to go and the 2700k and 6400K is much better. If you bought something and paid big money for it and find out it doesn't work, your going to spread the word that the product is bogus and this awesome technolgy will go by the wayside. to say 2700K and 6400K is not designed for "growing" is wrong. I'm sure the MH and HPS light was not originally desiged for the horticultral industry too.
If the debate is wether the purple is superior to the 2700K or vise versa try a test grow with a 25,000K cfl vs. a 2700K (6400K for veg). The 25,000K cfl is the same color spectrum as the Mland induction. Induction lights are basically CFL's on steriods. The produce the same color spectrums but are much much more intense and last almost forever.
Mland does not make the bulbs, they are a fixture manufacturer. There are only a few companies that actually build induction lights.
The purple spectrum works great for growing but only if your growing basil or lettuce!

[squarepush3r]

To futher my previous post, the reason i'm posting is becuase we don't want to see induction lights get a bad name because someone markets the wrong product with "induction" name and having it not perform good. I just want to prove to you all that the purple spectrum is not the way to go and the 2700k and 6400K is much better. If you bought something and paid big money for it and find out it doesn't work, your going to spread the word that the product is bogus and this awesome technolgy will go by the wayside. to say 2700K and 6400K is not designed for "growing" is wrong. I'm sure the MH and HPS light was not originally desiged for the horticultral industry too.
If the debate is wether the purple is superior to the 2700K or vise versa try a test grow with a 25,000K cfl vs. a 2700K (6400K for veg). The 25,000K cfl is the same color spectrum as the Mland induction. Induction lights are basically CFL's on steriods. The produce the same color spectrums but are much much more intense and last almost forever.
Mland does not make the bulbs, they are a fixture manufacturer. There are only a few companies that actually build induction lights.
The purple spectrum works great for growing but only if your growing basil or lettuce!

ok, thanks for the clarification. Did you receive my email?

[squarepush3r]

still looking for sources/pricing of some of these lights to trial

//

[bubbas]

Hi everyone,
Here are some new pictues of how the induction lights are working. The purple spectrum seems to have stopped any progression. We have decided to end the purple light after today and save the crop by replacing it with a 2700K light. The 2700K is doing very good. You can see the difference in light pentration compared to the purple, the buds are growing all the way down the plant. These pictures were taken 3 weeks in bud.

[squarepush3r]

Hi everyone,
Here are some new pictues of how the induction lights are working. The purple spectrum seems to have stopped any progression. We have decided to end the purple light after today and save the crop by replacing it with a 2700K light. The 2700K is doing very good. You can see the difference in light pentration compared to the purple, the buds are growing all the way down the plant. These pictures were taken 3 weeks in bud.

not bad. Love to see more updates as they come.

[mainegrown]

subscribed

[jbrand]

very interesting. subscribed

[Vancefish]

Hi everyone,
Here are some new pictues of how the induction lights are working. The purple spectrum seems to have stopped any progression. We have decided to end the purple light after today and save the crop by replacing it with a 2700K light. The 2700K is doing very good. You can see the difference in light pentration compared to the purple, the buds are growing all the way down the plant. These pictures were taken 3 weeks in bud.

I agree this is VERY interesting. :thumbsup:

However it's been four weeks since we've seen any updates :wtf:(which is the quote BTW). I'd like to see these plants at the current stage of flower.

7 weeks in? :D

[Steveat1]

I found a manufacturer making a 400W, 2100K induction lamp $230 per.
I was at my local grow shop, and they said their 2100K HPS was their best producer. it says lumen rate is 24000 and effective lumen is 45000-48000
if what they say is true, wouldn't that light be far superior to a 2700K ?
here are some other specs from them. i aint sellin nothin!
copied from data sheet sent to me.
1.long lifespan: For some item, such as self-ballast model and small wattages series, our lamps had 60000Hrs lifespan, for other models, our lamps had 100000hrs.
2.High light efficiency: 65~90lm/w.Rate lumen is the principle date, human eyes can feel more effective lumen.
3.High color rendering: 80.
4. work frequency: 200~300KHz
5. Low Light Decline: The light decline is less than 30% when it use 60000hrs.
6.Color temperature: 2100K/2700K/3500K/4000K/5000K/6500K. 2700K,6500K ,we had larges for store so that we can delivery out as long as clients ordered.
7.The power change area is less than 3% of rate power when the voltage changed in 10% or so.
8. Environment temeprature: You can use the lamps in 0~50 centidegree if you do not use any fixtures, you can use the lamps in -20~ 50 centidegree if used in closed fixtures.
9. THD< 10%,Power factor: 0.99
10.CCC,UL,CE,ROHS,ISO9001 certification. http://boards.cannabis.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[violetsunset]

Has anyone done flowering with available induction lights and posted final pictures to show a result?

[squarepush3r]

Has anyone done flowering with available induction lights and posted final pictures to show a result?

not that I know of

[violetsunset]

not that I know of

Well, so much for that tech hype....

[ForgetClassC]

I saw an induction light system at an aquarium store the other day, and I have to say, I wasn't impressed. The bulbs were paired with a 35w MH and the MH just drowned them out. It was 4-2 foot induction lights, and one MH, and still, I had to look up into the light fixture to tell there were other lights in there.

-C

[squarepush3r]

any updates? bumpp

[bubbas]

any updates? bumpp

Hi Everyone sorry for the long MIA...long story.
Well we finally got our order of Induction lights in one and a half months late due to production problems. Here are some pictures of them with reflectors. We have been advised by our lawers not to publish a grow journal with them unfortunatly. We will however publish measurements of light quality and comparing them to other light sources. We will be measuring Lux, Par, heat and current draw from different lighting sources HPS, large CFL's, EFDL, and mircrowave sulpher plasma at different heights and light distribution over a given area. We are thinking of loaning or selling a light (special pricing) to someone to do a grow journal with. Anyone interested?

[squarepush3r]

Hi Everyone sorry for the long MIA...long story.
Well we finally got our order of Induction lights in one and a half months late due to production problems. Here are some pictures of them with reflectors. We have been advised by our lawers not to publish a grow journal with them unfortunatly. We will however publish measurements of light quality and comparing them to other light sources. We will be measuring Lux, Par, heat and current draw from different lighting sources HPS, large CFL's, EFDL, and mircrowave sulpher plasma at different heights and light distribution over a given area. We are thinking of loaning or selling a light (special pricing) to someone to do a grow journal with. Anyone interested?

hi. would love to see some lux/par reports from these. Which model did you end up getting? The 3600k as you mentioned above?

[stra8outtaWeed]

i would be interested how these might team up with LED's...i have 3500k warm white LED's in my lights but the lower 2100k might be useful!:jointsmile:

[bubbas]

hi. would love to see some lux/par reports from these. Which model did you end up getting? The 3600k as you mentioned above?
I have them in 2700K and 6500K in 300 watt and 2700K in 400watt. As for testing LED's they do not measure like other sources in other words you can't use a quantum light meter to measure LED's for some reason.

[lifted247]

I just read all 50 something posts and i would have to say this thread is extremely informational, Now this is the info that i gathered, and bubba if ur still there let me know if im right
Induction lighting is gonna cost me a little bit more for the ballast reflector and bulb than either MH or HPS, but it is also going to be more efficient, low heat, so that means the exra money i pay for INDCTN lighting i woll actually save some money because i wont have to buy expensive inline fans and running a lot of tubing for ventilation, is this correct? The picturs were very helpful, but if you could maybe put all the info into like a comparison chart that showed like lumens, heat, kw/hr stuff like that i believe it wuld help. I am extremely interested as i will be settingup my first multi plant grow room in a month and am currently trying to figure how i want to light it

[khyberkitsune]

I thought I'd drop in with a bit of news - expect to see HID-based induction systems coming sooner or later. I figured out how to deal with the fused quartz tube messing with the induction field and causing severe diminishing of light output. Now if I could only find a manufacturer that can actually do the construction of the tube, because it's a bit more complicated than the typical HID tube.

[bubbas]

I just read all 50 something posts and i would have to say this thread is extremely informational, Now this is the info that i gathered, and bubba if ur still there let me know if im right
Induction lighting is gonna cost me a little bit more for the ballast reflector and bulb than either MH or HPS, but it is also going to be more efficient, low heat, so that means the exra money i pay for INDCTN lighting i woll actually save some money because i wont have to buy expensive inline fans and running a lot of tubing for ventilation, is this correct? The picturs were very helpful, but if you could maybe put all the info into like a comparison chart that showed like lumens, heat, kw/hr stuff like that i believe it wuld help. I am extremely interested as i will be settingup my first multi plant grow room in a month and am currently trying to figure how i want to light it

I will be publishing my comparison in a week or so. I'm trying to borrow a 1000 watt HPS from a friend. I have all the other types of lights already. I'll be trying to use the same wattage for each type of lighting or close as i can. Another major benifit in cost that your missing is that these last 100000 hours or about 24 years on a 12/12 cycle. It would be the last light you would buy. That's why they are more than HPS.

[RackitMan]

Hi Everyone sorry for the long MIA...long story.
Well we finally got our order of Induction lights in one and a half months late due to production problems. Here are some pictures of them with reflectors. We have been advised by our lawers not to publish a grow journal with them unfortunatly. We will however publish measurements of light quality and comparing them to other light sources. We will be measuring Lux, Par, heat and current draw from different lighting sources HPS, large CFL's, EFDL, and mircrowave sulpher plasma at different heights and light distribution over a given area. We are thinking of loaning or selling a light (special pricing) to someone to do a grow journal with. Anyone interested?

While all of those measurements will be helpful, there is no legal reason you could not do a grow journal with tomatoes as compared to HID or LED lighting.

[Swansen]

While all of those measurements will be helpful, there is no legal reason you could not do a grow journal with tomatoes as compared to HID or LED lighting.

Yeah, i'll second that, raw information is nice, but it only says so much. Do some comparison grows with a few plants and you'll convince A LOT more people.

[khyberkitsune]

Yeah, i'll second that, raw information is nice, but it only says so much. Do some comparison grows with a few plants and you'll convince A LOT more people.

I would suggest the following grows for testing certain efficiencies:

For vegetative-phase harvested plants, use sweet basil, thyme, maybe parsley or cilantro.
For fruiting, use tomatoes or strawberries or peppers.

[Swansen]

oh yeah, people who are looking for suppliers or whatever, here is a link to cra ton of suppliers, some will sell singular units.

induction light - induction light products manufacturers on alibaba.com

[grandpa]

I would be interested in purchasing a induction light to do a grow journal.

[Romantik]

Hello all, this is my first post.
I have been farming for many years, with differnt light sorces.
I have tried LED's,hps, mh.
I am going to be testing soon the bloom induction light vs HPS.
We here in the states need a great way to grow, but keep the power down.
This is the latest promising option.
I always get excited with new tech, and like to try things for myself.
We can post, read, listen to what people say or not.
When it all comes down to it, it's always a chance.
If your not willing to take risks, than you loose half the fun in life.
Maybe it's just me, the joy of the exprientment.
Just the kind of guy that needs to see things with his own eyes.
We all know the joys each day of looking after our babies(plants)
Enjoy the journey people, take chances, embrace risks and live alittle.
Then you'll know, you, not word of mouth.
Led's are great for growth stage, hands down.
This is all I use for now, but always get excited about new things.
Stay green friends, and may we all walk the world with out fear one day.

[khyberkitsune]

"As for testing LED's they do not measure like other sources in other words you can't use a quantum light meter to measure LED's for some reason. "

Actually, you do use a quantum light meter. The only real scientific measurement of light that EVER matters (lumens is for humans, not for plants) is the amount of photons that hit a given surface area per defined unit of time. We express this as umols per square meter per second (umol/m^2/s-1) and a quantum meter measures EXACTLY this.

There is no other way to quantify actual performance potential.

Get a real quantum meter made by Apogee or Li-Cor, since they have models specifically designed for testing photosynthetic photon flux density. Most other quantum meters are very poor-quality and cheaply designed for hobbyist aquarium builders, not gardeners. I've run through a bunch of them so I could get effective specifications on my panels listed.

[TheCheese]

did you ever finish your grow? what were the final results as in terms of yeild. Also what are the overall deminsions of the whole unit including weight. What is the price for the 200w and 300w units. thanks for the info....

[wolfgar]

interesting lighting by stats but untill someone with alot of rep on this forum gives me a grow log ending in forearm sized colas i will remain a skeptic. but i so want to use a different light source. 600w on 18/6 and 1000w on 12/12 is a lot of energy to use because i have to hide from my neighbors.

[bigsby]

I would suggest the following grows for testing certain efficiencies:

For vegetative-phase harvested plants, use sweet basil, thyme, maybe parsley or cilantro.
For fruiting, use tomatoes or strawberries or peppers.

Bump

So how about it Bubbas? This is a mighty fine suggestion.

You want to get this thing off the ground. I'm sure the lawyers can agree to sweet basil, thyme, parsley, cilantro, tomatoes, strawberries or peppers... we'd all love this to be a success.

[demoreal]

Bump

So how about it Bubbas? This is a mighty fine suggestion.

You want to get this thing off the ground. I'm sure the lawyers can agree to sweet basil, thyme, parsley, cilantro, tomatoes, strawberries or peppers... we'd all love this to be a success.
I agree. First thing that came to my mind when I read the thread and got to the lawyer part.

[jscruggs420]

hello, new to board, but I have 4, 300 watt m-land induction lights, they do work and i can post pics and video of these and led grows if anyone would like to see

[khyberkitsune]

hello, new to board, but I have 4, 300 watt m-land induction lights, they do work and i can post pics and video of these and led grows if anyone would like to see

Yo those 300w M-Lands are some bad-ass units.

[jscruggs420]

have you used them

[jscruggs420]

I'm thinking about adding my 300 watt induction light into the mix just to see what it does. Does this interest anyone, or would you like to see just the 500 watt led grow. I have video of the grow and will post updates every week. I'm starting a 2400 watt hps grow with 4 300 watt induction lights on the sides to help out. I will post those pics as well when its up and going. thanks and let me know if anyone wants to see this. One more thing, I work for no companies and paid for all these lights out of pocket. These tests are done solely for medical purposes and go to medical patients in Colorado.

[jscruggs420]

I have 4 of these light, let me know

[bigtopsfinn]

I'm thinking about adding my 300 watt induction light into the mix just to see what it does. Does this interest anyone, or would you like to see just the 500 watt led grow. I have video of the grow and will post updates every week. I'm starting a 2400 watt hps grow with 4 300 watt induction lights on the sides to help out. I will post those pics as well when its up and going. thanks and let me know if anyone wants to see this. One more thing, I work for no companies and paid for all these lights out of pocket. These tests are done solely for medical purposes and go to medical patients in Colorado.

I'd like to see this, either way mentioned, start up a grow log! :jointsmile:

[bigsby]

I'm kind of more interested in seeing them side-by-side so we know what the response is for each light.

And second to bigtop - start a grow log but please post a pointer here so that we all find it!

[jscruggs420]

How do I make a pointer to this spot and right now I have space to do a led grow and another spot to do an hps and induction grow, I'll see what I can do and keep everyone posted

[bigsby]

Start your grow thread here:

Grow Logs (http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-log/)

Once you post the new thread simply cut and past the url into a response to this thread. That way people viewing this thread will find it easily.

[jscruggs420]

Thank you, started my new log at
http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-log/185318-500-watt-led-grow.html#post2104129

[bradahb]

Hi Guys,
Finnally got some pics.
As i expected the purple spectrum did not do as good as the 2700K. The purple vegged very nice and kept up with the 6400K, but when it went to bud it fell way short. The first pic is a side by side, the second is the purple Mland. bud and the ones in the yellow light is the 2700K. We vegged with 6400K and budded with 2700K VS. veg and bud with purple Mland.
As you can see the yield is no where near the 2700K. Both set ups where 300 watt induction. We believe the 400 watter will keep up with a 1000HPS as the 300's are just shy compared to 1000hps. Stay tuned.
Anyone interested in them contact me, i'll be placing an order soon as we are all sold out. these pics are only at about 7 weeks. I'll be posting more pics when complete with yield numbers
hi bubba,

interested in your 400 w 2700...how are the results coming and how much are they?

[squarepush3r]

I have 4 of these light, let me know

JC, love to see anything and everything relating to these inductino lights, including grow tests.

[krazyken]

How about that data bubba??? Looking foreword to it!

Ken :thumbsup:

[Steveat1]

I wound up buying 6 -200w/2300k induction lights ($980with delivery) from a supplier in china. who made test subjects for me. I would post some grow logs, but as this is my first legal grow, and the lamps took a little too long for manufacture, and delivery, I can't post good solid data. I have like 2.5 feet of stem on my plants and had to do some crazy bends to keep tops from hitting the ceiling, I will ,however, post my flower cycle for my clones in about 2-3 weeks from now. this will be a better test, as i will be starting with reasonable size vegged plants.
Down side is that one lamp had a bad ballast, and the rep has still not rectified the situation completely. though they did sent out a replacement ballast, it also malfunctioned, and blew out light. other lights are bright and no probs.
I could use some questions about 2100k lights with a reference to my tests, to the rep, to motivate her a little more, that people are interested in this product, but are awaiting test results from the guy who bought 6/2300k lights from her company ;-) Cherry <[email protected]>

[squarepush3r]

I wound up buying 6 -200w/2300k induction lights ($980with delivery) from a supplier in china. who made test subjects for me. I would post some grow logs, but as this is my first legal grow, and the lamps took a little too long for manufacture, and delivery, I can't post good solid data. I have like 2.5 feet of stem on my plants and had to do some crazy bends to keep tops from hitting the ceiling, I will ,however, post my flower cycle for my clones in about 2-3 weeks from now. this will be a better test, as i will be starting with reasonable size vegged plants.
Down side is that one lamp had a bad ballast, and the rep has still not rectified the situation completely. though they did sent out a replacement ballast, it also malfunctioned, and blew out light. other lights are bright and no probs.
I could use some questions about 2100k lights with a reference to my tests, to the rep, to motivate her a little more, that people are interested in this product, but are awaiting test results from the guy who bought 6/2300k lights from her company ;-) Cherry <[email protected]>
is this the mland light, or a different company in china?

[Steveat1]

Different company. you can find their lead info on Alibaba dot com if you search in alibaba , for induction lamp, and 2100k.
I spoke with m-land, but the other company was willing to make 2100k lamps, though specs didn't quite meet the 2100k color temp. please email the address i posted, the rep will be very happy and enthusiastic to create a new grower's lamp with 2100k, if they perceive demand.
the lights don't come with reflector, but i had no problem making one with aluminum roof flashing for about $15.

[vannewb]

That's the problem with buying from chinese factory... they take a long time to arrive, and if there's defects it takes even longer. If you find a local supplier, they should have supplies on hand so you're not waiting around. More $$ of course but that's what you pay for.

why did you buy 200w instead of 400w? just because of how your grow space is set up? I hope to try 400w induction +100w T5 vs. 1000w HPS to test if they're in the same league. Planning to run on a 4'x4' area on both.

I keep seeing the spectrum getting redder in these discussions... first 2700k, 2300k, now 2100k ... will it make a big difference?

[khyberkitsune]

That's the problem with buying from chinese factory... they take a long time to arrive, and if there's defects it takes even longer. If you find a local supplier, they should have supplies on hand so you're not waiting around. More $$ of course but that's what you pay for.

why did you buy 200w instead of 400w? just because of how your grow space is set up? I hope to try 400w induction +100w T5 vs. 1000w HPS to test if they're in the same league. Planning to run on a 4'x4' area on both.

I keep seeing the spectrum getting redder in these discussions... first 2700k, 2300k, now 2100k ... will it make a big difference?

The color temp is only a representation of an average value.

I'm working on induction lights that won't even bother with a color temp, they'll operate on the same principle as LED, but with much better efficiencies.

[vannewb]

I'm working on induction lights that won't even bother with a color temp, they'll operate on the same principle as LED, but with much better efficiencies.
how long do you think that will take you? induction lights that target wavelengths specific for plant growth would be revolutionary!

[khyberkitsune]

how long do you think that will take you? induction lights that target wavelengths specific for plant growth would be revolutionary!

We already have them, I'm actually working on better phosphors to make a nice quad-band induction lamp.

[squarepush3r]

We already have them, I'm actually working on better phosphors to make a nice quad-band induction lamp.

you should look at the work of these hydrogrow LED people, they got the spectrum down on their products

Hydro Grow LED (http://www.hydrogrowled.com/)

[bigsby]

We already have them, I'm actually working on better phosphors to make a nice quad-band induction lamp.

I'm interested too. Keep us up to day Khyber.

[khyberkitsune]

you should look at the work of these hydrogrow LED people, they got the spectrum down on their products

Hydro Grow LED (http://www.hydrogrowled.com/)

Only two of their listed wavelengths have the highest efficiency, the other two are off by about 10-20nm and that really affects the performance of the light.

Also, their far-red is useless since they're using 660 and not 680. The Emerson Effect with Far-Red doesn't occur without 670-680nm radiation, 660 just doesn't cut it very well. Also, the overall balance, too much red.

The only thing they have that appears to beat me is 60 degree diodes in the panel construction. Even their price per watt is kinda out there.

[vannewb]

The M-Land Bi-spectrum lamps are targeted wavelenths.
[...]
I am presently gathering data and this thread is of special interest to me. What happen to bubba? Thanks for that latest bud shot Steveat1.

I spoke to bubba a few weeks ago and he said some locals were putting them to the test.

His 400w unit is $400 or $499 (sorry can't recall) compared to yours at $800, a price that makes even me balk.


We already have them, I'm actually working on better phosphors to make a nice quad-band induction lamp.
Ok fine how long do you think your better phospors will take?

Apparently you're still testing how much blue vs. red you want in your lights?

[khyberkitsune]

"Ok fine how long do you think your better phospors will take?

Apparently you're still testing how much blue vs. red you want in your lights? "

Just waiting for them to be able to make the quantum-dot phosphors I need for 420nm, and I'll have my full line-up. Maybe 6 months, it's tough to tell.

As for testing how much red vs. blue I want, I've pretty much settled upon that number.

[Romantik]

Well folks it's moving along good with the induction show down, hps vs induction bloom.
Were at week one and both are already showing mini flowers.
Were using Advanced Nutrients for every step of the way.
I have started out with a 300 vs 300 systems.
I have noticed that since bringing the HPs into my room my temp increase has jumped at least 15 degrees.
The induction runs much cooler and I can leave the light stationary.
With the HPs I have had to move the lamp twice.
I will be posting pictures in the next couple days.
I also use LED for all my clones, I find that the babies love the LED more than your basic CFL's.
I move my clones to my flowering room at 12-14 inches.
I also do hand watering and mix my nutes at 1 gal. At a time.
Were growing good old Northern Lights hybred, to get the best of both worlds.
Happy farming to all and good luck.

[khyberkitsune]

Well folks it's moving along good with the induction show down, hps vs induction bloom.
Were at week one and both are already showing mini flowers.
Were using Advanced Nutrients for every step of the way.
I have started out with a 300 vs 300 systems.
I have noticed that since bringing the HPs into my room my temp increase has jumped at least 15 degrees.
The induction runs much cooler and I can leave the light stationary.
With the HPs I have had to move the lamp twice.
I will be posting pictures in the next couple days.
I also use LED for all my clones, I find that the babies love the LED more than your basic CFL's.
I move my clones to my flowering room at 12-14 inches.
I also do hand watering and mix my nutes at 1 gal. At a time.
Were growing good old Northern Lights hybred, to get the best of both worlds.
Happy farming to all and good luck.

For the best scientific results, don't use Advanced Nutrients. Use something general-purpose that is commonly found and easy for anybody to reproduce at a low cost. Any typical Hoagland's solution should do the trick just fine.

[krazyken]

Hey Jackdewack,
Our 300 watters are available in 2700K, 6400K or the purple full spectrum. All are 120 Volt and are $480
Thanks



$480 is a steep price for a lamp with no fixture. I sell M-Land Bi-spectrum 300W for $532 + shipping/handling. These specific units are IP65 rated, water proof for indoor/outdoor use. As someone mentioned earlier about the shipping cost being high, it is, and they will not budge. Shipping costs are controlled by the shipping companies and not the manufactures. You would have to order a whack of them to save any real amount. They weigh 33 lbs because of the thick aluminum fixture and tempered glass cover. For $52 more you get the fixture and water proof rating. JMO


Yo those 300w M-Lands are some bad-ass units.

Yes they are! :smokin:

[khyberkitsune]

Just wait until M-Land get my specialize dphosphor blend in it (if they go for it, anyways,) then they'l be better than LED, no joke. I love LED, but Induction offers so much more.

[krazyken]

Just wait until M-Land get my specialize dphosphor blend in it (if they go for it, anyways,) then they'l be better than LED, no joke. I love LED, but Induction offers so much more.

Thank you so much khyberkitsune for positive response! The science is there! The Bi-spectrum units are the best so far! I do hope you hit it off with M-Land!

Kenneth Surgent
Advanced Hydroponics
EFDL Lighting (http://www.advanced-hydroponics.ca/lighting.php)
Ontario, Canada

[khyberkitsune]

Thank you so much khyberkitsune for positive response! The science is there! The Bi-spectrum units are the best so far! I do hope you hit it off with M-Land!

Kenneth Surgent
Advanced Hydroponics
EFDL Lighting (http://www.advanced-hydroponics.ca/lighting.php)
Ontario, Canada

Well, while the science is there, there is a limitation to induction, while LED has the potential to surpass HID.
Also, I'm working on quad-band induction.

[vannewb]

Well folks it's moving along good with the induction show down, hps vs induction bloom.
[...]
I have started out with a 300 vs 300 systems.
I have noticed that since bringing the HPs into my room my temp increase has jumped at least 15 degrees.
The induction runs much cooler and I can leave the light stationary.
With the HPs I have had to move the lamp twice.
300w HPS? do you mean 2x 150w?

If you're running 300w of each, how can they warm the rooms differently? in the end all that power turns into heat.

[neceros]

I think he means he has one 300 watt hps versus a 300 watt induction light.

[bigsby]

If you're running 300w of each, how can they warm the rooms differently? in the end all that power turns into heat.

Doesn't heat output depend on the efficiency of the light and the amounts of light produced at different wavelengths?

[neceros]

Well, different lights put out different heat. Some don't put any heat out at all, like LEDs. I believe induction lighting is also very very low. It depends on how the light is produced.

[squarepush3r]

im fairly sure heat is based on watts, ie 300w = 300w

[bigsby]

First, LEDs do produce heat, just not nearly as much due to efficiencies. Hence, a 300w LED can be cooled with a heat sink or a small computer fan while a 300w HID needs a squirrel cage. LEDs only produce light in few wavelengths while an HID produces a ton light across a wider spectra including yellow and orange light which equals heat. An HID also literally burns inside the bulb. So 300w of HID = tons more heat than 300w of LED. That much I'm sure of. We need khyberkitsune in here to straighten this out...

[squarepush3r]

Hay gang,

I've found myself in a dilemma. I just found out the house I'm renting is being foreclosed on and the bank wants us out by end of the month. I know...nice of the owner to give a heads up before the bank came knocking at my door. So here is the deal. Apprentlly I will be loosing my deposit because the owner is broke :( Now I have to sell off some stuff to be-able to move into a new pad.

I very much hate to do this, and Before I go to E-bay I thought I would throw it out to the members of this site. I have (5) 300w M-Land induction lights I will be selling. I've used them for 2-cycles...approximately 700hr+/- with great results. Paid about $550-each with shipping and looking to get about 1/2 back. If anyone is interested hit me up at [email protected]



Cheers

Romo

any pics of your grow with the lights that you are selling caus i am interested but would like to see some results first? Also, you can just stay in the house I think, squatters rights or something, look it up =] good luck

[khyberkitsune]

Renters have rights. You should be contacting a lawyer right now.

[MrLegal]

if u got the 40 watt induction lamps 3500k and placed them 6 inch away from each other in a row could u flower good if u only placed the plants right under the lights?

40 watt= 3000lm

[MrLegal]

forgot to say the plants will be small2 to 3 feet tops

[romo76]

I've gotten a few emails with some questions so hopefully I can answer everyones at once.

First off, thanks for advice about renters rights. Unfortunately in Nevada renters have limited to no rights. I already talked to a friend who is a lawyer and a realtor as-well and both said I'm SOL. However if I was in California I could tell them to go suck-it for 6-months or more.

Onto the lights:
-Sorry no pix of results. Even-though I was doing this for legal purposes I didn't feel the need for any unnecessary exposure. A friend did take a few...will ask if he still has them and post if available.

-What is the light spread? I don't exactly know as I kept the lights aprox 3"-4" above canopy. My set-up was a 4-pipe recirculating system 8'-long 3.5'-wide...SOG 40-plants...2-inductions on 1 Light-Rail 3.5. Worked great for me.

-How warm do they get? If I was to guess...75+/-....warm to touch...not hot. Great lights for anyone who may have ventilation issues. Or if you choose not to use ventilation at all and keep your CO2 confined.

-What color spectrum do you have? I currently have the purple M-land currently in each fixture. I had 5-extra 2700K bulbs for flower which worked very well. I was swapping out bulbs like you would do with a digital HPS & HM ballast. Unfortunately when I was moving some stuff around the box with 2700k bulbs fell over and all broke.

-What's your opinion on performance? The purple veged like crazy (300-induction stayed neck-in-neck with 600-MH). So IMO equivalent to 600-HPS/MH. Although I never tested with any higher then 600w HPS. Furthermore you can flower with the purple, however like in a previous post they fall about 30% short. Moreover you can flower with a MH and get the same results....best to switch to HPS. Having said that maybe the Bi-Spectrum is the answer for both cycles. That was going to be my next test.

-Cost of shipping? Go to USPS, UPS, FedEx and use the calculators they provide. Shipping from NV 89510 Weight-30lbs 8"x15"x34".

-No-one asked this...but the lights have a 5-year warranty....So about 4.5-years left on warranty.

Hope this answers everyones questions.

[MrLegal]

are you in reno nv?
i am 89436 lol

but would the 40 watt induction bulbs flower if u have enough in the 2800k

i think it would be around 7000lum or more a sq ft

[romo76]

are you in reno nv?
i am 89436 lol

but would the 40 watt induction bulbs flower if u have enough in the 2800k

i think it would be around 7000lum or more a sq ft

I'm in Tahoe...and could come down the hill.

I only have the (5)-300w

[MrLegal]

what color are they?
and how do they do for flowering

[romo76]

MrLegal...If you are interested in helping patients....I have a few that will need help in the area. As I can no-longer help them.

However due to NV law you would not be-able to take ANY compensation. I only did this because I believe in helping and the cause.

[romo76]

Hay all,

Sorry to do this to the peps that are interested in the lights. But I just got a call and found out that my wife's mother is back in the hospital with aggressive cancer. They thought it was taken care of 1.5-years ago, however it sounds like it came back and spread to her lymph-nods in her chest and potentially her bone. Everything I own will be going to storage for now and I will have to deal with this later when I get back. I will get back in-touch with those who were interested...maybe few weeks...or more....not sure. Again...Sorry. Best of luck to everyone.

[winekid007]

I just finished my first harvest ever with a 400 watt Induction Grow light.

The questions:

1. Can an induction light produce Grade A+ bud.
A: Yes, yes, and yes. You will need some supplemental lighting to get there but it is easily done.

2. Can an induction light flower as quickly as HPS?
A: No not really. With supplemental lighting you can get fairly close. (but good things come to those who wait)

3. Can you produce the same weight as HPS?
A: Easily- and actually can be a decent bit more. There is a little more strategy involved (SOG- recommended) Use 2-3 times more plants but keep them smaller (dont veg as long- and drop bottom fruit early.)



Here are my personal thoughts on the light:

1. First off all of you who dont know this light is awesome compared to current lighting technology. The closest thing to Induction is LED.

2. The light I purchased shipped directly from China and cost me $310 including shipping (which was $130 of the $310- there was no shipping break on ordering multiple units i asked.) There are many providers but all the lights are coming from China at this point. (there are a few us importers and websites selling the lights but are charging an arm and a leg to get one)
The best place to find a supplier is ALIBABA.com

3. I dont have extensive growing experience but this is what I feel about the light.

Induction lights I thought could be purchased at different color spectrums (similar to ccfl's), however when I read into it the light actually produces a range of spectrum. The wholesalers typically claim 2700k-5400k. (the one I bought said 2100k-5400k). There is also a few different types- the pink ones which are not supposed to do well because the quality of light sucks and really can only be used for veg.

To get your 420 to flower at a similar rate to HPS you do need to add some supplemental lighting to get a stronger focus on the deep red part of the spectrum. I personally added 4 2700k CCFL's around my Induction light and it made a big difference in flowering time and size. (also considered a 90 watt all red 660nm LED UFO)

The Induction light on it's own would take about 1.5-2.5 weeks longer to bud than an HPS. With adding 2700k CCFL's it cuts down the flowering time to where its close to HPS (maybe a week longer at most). The good news the extra week under an Induction is well worth it. This light produces some of the most amazing chronic because of how well the plants absorb this type of light. The flowers it produces can be large also but that really depends on how you train the plant and what kind of setup/style you are running.


I recommend a SOG (sea of green) style and keep the plants smaller but a single focused stalk or lollipop style (where you drop all the bottom fruit early) so you get a few bigger buds instead of lots of mini's.

The whole advantage of this light is you can get it extremely close to the plants and it has almost no heat. This helps the plants absorbs incredible amount of energy.

Coverage:
1 400 watt light covers 2x3 feet. (with supplemental lighting 3x3-3x4)

So if you are planning on growing in a larger area multiple lights are necessary or a light mover (or both).


They now produce a 500 watt induction! I do recommend them just know that like everything else in this world nothing is as hyped up as sellers make them. You can save good money, get very good bud (that takes slightly longer), have no heat issues, can keep C02 levels higher, etc. but it has it setbacks as well, smaller plants, less coverage area.

If you can get a 500 watt shipped for under $400 it's worth a go. You will find yourself wanting to buy more of them after one harvest.

Hope I could help.
KronicKid

[vannewb]

Doesn't heat output depend on the efficiency of the light and the amounts of light produced at different wavelengths?


Well, different lights put out different heat. Some don't put any heat out at all, like LEDs. I believe induction lighting is also very very low. It depends on how the light is produced.
it's basic thermodynamics. if you're pumping 300w of electricity into a room, then 300w of energy has to come out of that room .. some way or another.

In a sealed room, it's going to be almost entirely heat, with a negligible % of it being chemical energy (i.e., the plants you grew).

The reason people say "LEDs are cooler!!" is not because a 300w LED makes less heat than a 300w HID. It's because you can grow nearly as well with 300w LED as you can 1000w HID. The reality is you're simply pumping in only 30% of the electricity, which results in only 30% of the heat.

(There is also the issue that many "300w" leds could actually be consuming only, perhaps, 250w of electricity... while 300w of HID could consume a real 300w in the bulb, plus maybe another 50w in the ballast... so suddenly your HID setup is in reality consuming 50% more electricity than a supposedly equal wattage LED).

That said: If you put 2 equal wattage lights, with equal ballast losses, in identical sealed rooms... they will both heat those rooms nearly exactly the same amount, no matter how efficient the lamp is. The brighter lamp room will simply cause the heat emanate more from the plants/walls than from the bulb.

Anyone who claims they have seen a significant temperature difference with the same wattage is either mis-measuring, or not using similar wattage.

[khyberkitsune]

Anyone who claims they have seen a significant temperature difference with the same wattage is either mis-measuring, or not using similar wattage.

There's a *MASSIVE* difference between a 1000w LED panel, which does NOT have a glass casing that reaches 1000+F while in operation nor does it have burning electrodes, and a 1000w HID, which DOES. There's a difference between the heat output from a light that uses an open electrical arc (fluorescent, HID) and a light that uses quantum wells.

I compare watt-for-watt lighting (as close as possible) all day long for my job. In the same space (A PC case) even 50w LED runs much, MUCH cooler than 54w T5HO. Reason being, no electrodes as a spark gap emitter for a source of energy loss and heat generation.

I think you're also forgetting that entropy differs in different electrical system configurations. That in itself is a basic tenant of thermodynamics.

[Weezard]

"Anyone who claims they have seen a significant temperature difference with the same wattage is either mis-measuring, or not using similar wattage. "

Oh, now, I wouldn't say that!:D

Aloha, vannewb

While you are spot on about Watts is Watts, you are overlooking a basic mechanism.


Most light sources radiate a lot of heat.

With leds the heat is produced by the diode which is tightly bonded to a heatsink.
I have a fan drawing the heat from the 'sink at the back of the lamp and I pump it out of the room before the room even knows it's there.;)

That is easy to do, with leds.:thumbsup:

Hps, even with a cool-tube, radiates much of it's heat into the room as IR, right through the cool-tube, where it is much more difficult to remove before it can cause problems.

So, I do claim, and can document, a significant temperature difference with similar wattage. :cool:

I am not mis-measuring.:)
I am taking advantage of the nature of the LED.

Narrow spectrum light that is ideal for photosynthesis. is all that I'm pumping into the room.
And the best part is, I'm putting 0 watts into less efficacious wavelengths, and almost none into radiated heat.:cool::cool::cool:

Jus' my 2 cents,
Aloha,
Weeze

[MrLegal]

romo i am willing to check one out and hopefully buy one

[vannewb]

There's a *MASSIVE* difference between a 1000w LED panel, which does NOT have a glass casing that reaches 1000+F while in operation nor does it have burning electrodes, and a 1000w HID, which DOES. There's a difference between the heat output from a light that uses an open electrical arc (fluorescent, HID) and a light that uses quantum wells.
Have you ever put both 1000w lamps in a sealed room with idential cooling systems, confirmed they both actually draw the same power (using a kill-a-watt or similar device) and then measured significantly different temperatures in that room?

I doubt it... but if you have, then can you explain where that equal amount of electrical energy goes if not into heat? (I know some people like to say "light" but that's not a good answer, since it's a sealed room the light cannot radiate away... it must bounce around until it is eventually converted to heat)


I think you're also forgetting that entropy differs in different electrical system configurations. That in itself is a basic tenant of thermodynamics.
Entropy is one-directional in every configuration. Whether that heat comes from a metal heatsink, a glass barrier, or the walls warmed by radiation, it's all still heat captured in the room.


"Anyone who claims they have seen a significant temperature difference with the same wattage is either mis-measuring, or not using similar wattage. "

I have a fan drawing the heat from the 'sink at the back of the lamp and I pump it out of the room before the room even knows it's there.;)
Yes you have a better cooling system in setup "A" than you have in setup "B". However, if the same # of watts had to be exhausted by exactly the same system in both setups, the temperature would be the same. Yours is not an apples-to-apples comparison.

So your LED setup permits you the luxury of a more efficient cooling system, a legitimate advantage to that type of lighting. apples-to-pinecones comparison, the apples are tastier, i agree.

The original claim was that 300w induction raises room temperature less than 300w HID. I don't believe it's so unless they're unequal setups. Is there something about induction lighting that allows you to more easily exaust a portion of the generated heat? If so, that's great news. That's why I originally asked the question of how someone got a 300w induction light to warm the room less than 300w HID.

[khyberkitsune]

"Have you ever put both 1000w lamps in a sealed room with idential cooling systems, confirmed they both actually draw the same power (using a kill-a-watt or similar device) and then measured significantly different temperatures in that room?"

In way many more setups than you can possibly imagine, and across the globe, pal.

My job is to design lighting solutions of ANY sort and as acting director of research for a multi-national corporation. That means LED, Induction, HID, Fluorescent, CCFL, even micro-plasma sheet lighting. You probably haven't even heard of the last one.

[Weezard]

"The original claim was that 300w induction raises room temperature less than 300w HID. I don't believe it's so unless they're unequal setups. Is there something about induction lighting that allows you to more easily exaust a portion of the generated heat? If so, that's great news. That's why I originally asked the question of how someone got a 300w induction light to warm the room less than 300w HID. "

:oSorry, brah. I missed that part.:stoned:
In which case I agree with you as conjecture.
Watts, is Watts.
Can't say for sure if the lack of internal, hot tungsten electrodes would make a big difference or not.
So, I'll defer to those who can.:cool:

Have never personally used an induction light.

So, I'll recuse myself, from this discussion, an' happily take my pineapples, with me.:)
Fo' da nex' pineapples to pineapples comparison I stumble upon.:D


Aloha Y'all
Weezard

[khyberkitsune]

"The original claim was that 300w induction raises room temperature less than 300w HID. I don't believe it's so unless they're unequal setups. Is there something about induction lighting that allows you to more easily exaust a portion of the generated heat? If so, that's great news. That's why I originally asked the question of how someone got a 300w induction light to warm the room less than 300w HID. "

:oSorry, brah. I missed that part.:stoned:
In which case I agree with you as conjecture.
Watts, is Watts.
Can't say for sure if the lack of internal, hot tungsten electrodes would make a big difference or not.
So, I'll defer to those who can.:cool:

Have never personally used an induction light.

So, I'll recuse myself, from this discussion, an' happily take my pineapples, with me.:)
Fo' da nex' pineapples to pineapples comparison I stumble upon.:D


Aloha Y'all
Weezard

The tube itself emits less heat due to having no electrodes burning, exactly, but it still gets hot at higher wattages. The ballast, not so much but it still gets warm, and for induction lamps that is an issue given the typical close construction of the unit, especially at higher wattages. Even so, more wattage in a tube does mean more heat generated, but induction does not run as hot. If it ran as hot as HID, the thin phosphor layer would be vaporized well before the advertised 100,000 hour life.

[MrLegal]

khyberkitsune if i get a 40watt induction lamp every 8 inches from each other could i flower some small plants? 5 40watt in 4sq ft

[khyberkitsune]

khyberkitsune if i get a 40watt induction lamp every 8 inches from each other could i flower some small plants? 5 40watt in 4sq ft

Just use a 40w induction lamp per square foot, and one in the center of those four? Yes that would work, although I could see that getting rather costly rather quickly. Honestly I'd go with LED, as induction lamps still have some heat issues that need to be ironed out.

[MrLegal]

do u think led to support the 40watt induction, i am not rich but i have some money to throw at it and do u know about the 32watt odor control cfls?
if i use one for ever 2sq ft will that help with the smell

[khyberkitsune]

do u think led to support the 40watt induction, i am not rich but i have some money to throw at it and do u know about the 32watt odor control cfls?
if i use one for ever 2sq ft will that help with the smell

The odor control CFL lamps are nonsense. They are not as effective as a typical chemical-bag solution.

To support a 40watt induction lamp... well, a 50w LED lamp in the right configuration should replace both of those lamps. I wouldn't use induction for now until I've had the ability to test my custom phosphor blend and give you a result report. There is the chance that my LED panels are not as efficient as induction, but it's really dependent upon certain physical conditions. As it looks, though, induction is second-dog to LED.

[vannewb]

In way many more setups than you can possibly imagine, and across the globe, pal.
I have sincere respect for your professional abilities. That is why I am asking the questions instead of simply telling people "no you're wrong". But i'm still waiting for you to explain where that 1000w of electrical energy goes if not into heat energy.

Or put another way: can you please explain how an induction lamp using 300w of electricity would produce less heat than HID lamps using 300w, if they are both in the same sealed room?

I totally get the concept that the TUBE of a particular lamp may be cooler. Maybe we are discussing different things?? I am referring to the air temperature in the room, which is what the thermometer on the wall measures.

[seventhchild]

But i'm still waiting for you to explain where that 1000w of electrical energy goes if not into heat energy.

Or put another way: can you please explain how an induction lamp using 300w of electricity would produce less heat than HID lamps using 300w, if they are both in the same sealed room?it is converted into light not heat .watts is watts its true but ya'll need to understand that this is a measure of energy used not of light output.when the light fixture converts electricity to light some of the energy is lost as heat. incandescent bulbs lose most of that energy as heat....LEDs not so much..... i think this may be called lighting efficiency or something like that ..........the point being that fixtures that convert energy into light with less heat generation will heat the room less.

[khyberkitsune]

it is converted into light not heat .watts is watts its true but ya'll need to understand that this is a measure of energy used not of light output.when the light fixture converts electricity to light some of the energy is lost as heat. incandescent bulbs lose most of that energy as heat....LEDs not so much..... i think this may be called lighting efficiency or something like that ..........the point being that fixtures that convert energy into light with less heat generation will heat the room less.

This is close, it's not efficiency but efficacy, the power or capacity to produce a desired effect. Efficiency in this case relates to power input versus energy losses in the system, whereas efficacy would be how much light is produced per unit of input power.

About 70% of the power that goes into an HID system is lost as heat, with the rest being produced as light. With LED, about 10% of the input power is lost as heat, with the rest producing light.

[bigsby]

About 70% of the power that goes into an HID system is lost as heat, with the rest being produced as light. With LED, about 10% of the input power is lost as heat, with the rest producing light.

You say potato, I say patato... ;)

So my previous statement was pretty much on target except that I referred to efficiencies...
LEDs do produce heat, just not nearly as much due to efficiencies. Hence, a 300w LED can be cooled with a heat sink or a small computer fan while a 300w HID needs a squirrel cage. HID produces a ton light across a wider spectra including yellow and orange light which equals heat. An HID also literally burns inside the bulb. So 300w of HID = tons more heat than 300w of LED. That much I'm pretty sure of. We need khyberkitsune in here to straighten this out...

[vannewb]

it is converted into light not heat .watts is watts its true but ya'll need to understand that this is a measure of energy used not of light output.when the light fixture converts electricity to light some of the energy is lost as heat. incandescent bulbs lose most of that energy as heat....LEDs not so much..... i think this may be called lighting efficiency or something like that ..........the point being that fixtures that convert energy into light with less heat generation will heat the room less.
"the point being" that 300w of electrical energy doesn't just disapear. Once it's put into a room, it's coming out in some form or another. In a SEALED room it obviously cannot leave as light energy.

So what do you think happens with all that light you're shining in the sealed room? It bounces around a bunch and is eventually absorbed by walls and items as heat energy. (and if you have plants, a negligible amount of chemical also).

At this point the question that people claiming "300w induction lamps will heat up a room less than 300w HID" are unwilling (unable?) to answer is where does the electrical energy from HID lamp end up if not, eventually, heat energy?

(p.s. induction lamps have a LOWER lumens/watt efficiency than HID lamps, which implies even if you were able to radiate away the light energy, it would still result in more heat than HID)

[khyberkitsune]

"the point being" that 300w of electrical energy doesn't just disapear. Once it's put into a room, it's coming out in some form or another. In a SEALED room it obviously cannot leave as light energy.

So what do you think happens with all that light you're shining in the sealed room? It bounces around a bunch and is eventually absorbed by walls and items as heat energy. (and if you have plants, a negligible amount of chemical also).

At this point the question that people claiming "300w induction lamps will heat up a room less than 300w HID" are unwilling (unable?) to answer is where does the electrical energy from HID lamp end up if not, eventually, heat energy?

(p.s. induction lamps have a LOWER lumens/watt efficiency than HID lamps, which implies even if you were able to radiate away the light energy, it would still result in more heat than HID)

I've already answered this. Maybe not implicitly but it has been answered.

Period, most of the energy in HID is wasted as heat. Ballast or bulb, those are your two main loss areas. Induction lamps do a better job of mitigating this with their construction and due to the fact you don't have burning electrodes.

In an induction lamp, it's lost as higher-band EM radiation and not heat, in a typical fluorescent or HID, you have burning electrodes.

[khyberkitsune]

Both panels you guys have shown will work but not really produce. Poor ratio of red:blue, poor choice of wavelengths in some cases. Total waste using the white diodes. Having now run tests between my tri-band and my prototype quad band with white, the tri-band is performing the same.

There's only 4 major photosynthetic peaks in the visible range, and the 5th carotenoid/phycoerythrin/phycocyanin 'peak' is primarily applicable to aquatic plants like algae and kelp and pond lilies instead of terrestrial plants like cannabis.

UV isn't necessary - just an overdose of blue light in the right wavelength achieves the same results. IR can help but really it's a complimentary spectrum that must be accompanied by another wavelength to create the Emerson effect.

[bigsby]

I've already answered this. Maybe not implicitly but it has been answered.


I answered it too - explicitly. Heat. Heat. Heat.

[krazyken]

Both panels you guys have shown will work but not really produce. Poor ratio of red:blue, poor choice of wavelengths in some cases. Total waste using the white diodes. Having now run tests between my tri-band and my prototype quad band with white, the tri-band is performing the same.

There's only 4 major photosynthetic peaks in the visible range, and the 5th carotenoid/phycoerythrin/phycocyanin 'peak' is primarily applicable to aquatic plants like algae and kelp and pond lilies instead of terrestrial plants like cannabis.

UV isn't necessary - just an overdose of blue light in the right wavelength achieves the same results. IR can help but really it's a complimentary spectrum that must be accompanied by another wavelength to create the Emerson effect.

In your opinion, what are the 4 major photosynthetic peaks in the visible range?

[squarepush3r]

In your opinion, what are the 4 major photosynthetic peaks in the visible range?

ill give my input :)

660 640 450 430 rounding off to nearest 10th

[khyberkitsune]

660-670, 630, 460-470, 420.

[krazyken]

660-670, 630, 460-470, 420.

So for a Quad Band 660, 630, 460, 420 what would be the best ratio?
4:3:1:1 ?

What would you recommend as a optimum custom model?

Ken
:smokin:

[myblacktypes]

i have been reading up on induction lights for the past month planning my first grow room. my grow area is 2 1/2 w x 8 1/2 h x6 1/4 L I had been planning on using a single 400 watt induction light mland with seperate bulbs for veg and flower. it has been extremely hard to find a store that sells them in the us(and for a reasonable price)or any relevant info on induction lights in use growing our favorite plant...(alibaba express $650-680 400watt light m-land) when i emailed the alibaba seller he responded telling me to purchase from hydroponicshut but they dont have the light listed on their site. now im thinking of going led after looking at stra8outtaweed's grow logs. its solid proof of results which is something that has been extremely hard to find on induction lights.

[squarepush3r]

i have been reading up on induction lights for the past month planning my first grow room. my grow area is 2 1/2 w x 8 1/2 h x6 1/4 L I had been planning on using a single 400 watt induction light mland with seperate bulbs for veg and flower. it has been extremely hard to find a store that sells them in the us(and for a reasonable price)or any relevant info on induction lights in use growing our favorite plant...(alibaba express $650-680 400watt light m-land) when i emailed the alibaba seller he responded telling me to purchase from hydroponicshut but they dont have the light listed on their site. now im thinking of going led after looking at stra8outtaweed's grow logs. its solid proof of results which is something that has been extremely hard to find on induction lights.

did he ever mention a price for his LED's? The company told me they discontinued the 300W model when I inquired about it (the one I was interested in).

[krazyken]

If you want a custom led unit, I can get you a 119 x 3W =357W output in 660,630 and 460nm with my custom ratio.

Here! (http://www.advanced-hydroponics.ca/led-lighting.php)

[myblacktypes]

did he ever mention a price for his LED's? The company told me they discontinued the 300W model when I inquired about it (the one I was interested in).

yes he does have a price $450 a panel WEX-C150

I wish there was some more good info on induction lights.

[knna]

My job is to design lighting solutions of ANY sort and as acting director of research for a multi-national corporation. That means LED, Induction, HID, Fluorescent, CCFL, even micro-plasma sheet lighting. You probably haven't even heard of the last one.


About 70% of the power that goes into an HID system is lost as heat, with the rest being produced as light. With LED, about 10% of the input power is lost as heat, with the rest producing light.

Sorry to chime in, but I believe you arnt doing right your job. At least about LED research.

The second statement is so far of reality that its hard for me to believe that it comes from someone that have worked with LEDs a minimun time. Way less, on research.

Anyone can do a mistake. But nobody working on the field of advanced lighting and much less on LED lighting can do such an unbeliable and lack of rigour statement

[bigsby]

The second statement is so far of reality that its hard for me to believe that it comes from someone that have worked with LEDs a minimun time. Way less, on research.

Anyone can do a mistake. But nobody working on the field of advanced lighting and much less on LED lighting can do such an unbeliable and lack of rigour statement

Yeah, and? Would you please enlighten by downloading some of your wisdom as to how / why this is wrong? It is well and good to engage in debate on issues of substance but simply stating something is wrong does not make it so. You need to back up your words with something more than "anyone can do a mistake."

[knna]

Yeah, and? Would you please enlighten by downloading some of your wisdom as to how / why this is wrong? It is well and good to engage in debate on issues of substance but simply stating something is wrong does not make it so. You need to back up your words with something more than "anyone can do a mistake."

Please notice my message was directed to other person that says works on LED research and did an statement soooo wrong about something esential that I wont waste my time dispelling it if its not necessary.

I can understand you dont know how efficients are LEDs converting input energy into light. You dont need to know it. You dont need to be aware of the thermal load and design the best way to take it away.

But any person working on that field does. I do.

If the stament was "LEDs converts 50-60% of input energy as light and the remaining 40-50% is released as heat" probably I wouldnt chimed in. Not correct, but it would be possible as a little exageration, or a mistake of somebody talking from memory. Its not the case.

90% energy efficiency is so far in the future that giving arguments about it is unnecessary, at least for anybody that simply had read a little about the topic. You, obviously, had not. And somebody that simply doubts it knows so little about LEDs that probably will refuse any argument I may give, because havent got any knowledge to diferenciate between what is possible and what not.

Anyway, if you think that LEDs are 95% efficient as khyberkitsune said (as 90% system efficiency includes ballast (driver, PS) losses), show me what white LEDs emits 350lm/W. Better yet, show me one that gives half of it.

Or you just can go to any LED datasheet that states output in radiometric units and check it for yourself. Anyway, you wont believe what I say. Posting actual information about the topic for years is nothing, I know

[khyberkitsune]

Oh, are we seriously going to do this? You *REALLY* want to go?

"show me what white LEDs emits 350lm/W. Better yet, show me one that gives half of it."

CREE |Cree Breaks 200 Lumen Per Watt Efficacy Barrier (http://www.cree.com/press/press_detail.asp?i=1265232091259)

208 lux/w, more than half of what you requested, and destroying ANY HID. And that's just in the GREEN band where lumens are weighted, that's not including red or blue emissions.

You want me to start explaining how this works, or should I just whip out the patent with my name on it?

The efficiency gain I talk about is TOTALLY dependent upon the crop. For cannabis, you'll never hit 95%, but I can hit it with all sorts of fodder grasses and other vegetative crops. I can grow those WITHOUT LIGHT AT ALL, basically making the system only dependent upon power for the nutrient reservoir and temp control.

As stated above, lumens is measured at 555nm. That's not taking the ENTIRE irradiant flux, which from monochromatic diodes can WELL EXCEED 300 irradiant lux/w. The blue diodes ALONE are doing that, as that's what the Cree white is based from.

I think you should spend 3-4 years on Candlepower and learn, and even then you'd still be 100 years too young to try me. Even the usage of LED for horticulture is so beyond them that they're not qualified to discuss it.

Now pardon me while I finish inventing a 300w single-package diode with totally passive cooling. South Korea LOVES me right now. Seoul Semiconductor is almost falling over themselves with my new diode design.

Maximum theoretical output is ~683 irradiant lumens per watt, FYI. Monochromatic LEDs are EASILY past the halfway mark.

[knna]

Oh, are we seriously going to do this? You *REALLY* want to go?

"show me what white LEDs emits 350lm/W. Better yet, show me one that gives half of it."

CREE |Cree Breaks 200 Lumen Per Watt Efficacy Barrier (http://www.cree.com/press/press_detail.asp?i=1265232091259)

208 lux/w, more than half of what you requested, and destroying ANY HID. And that's just in the GREEN band where lumens are weighted, that's not including red or blue emissions.

You want me to start explaining how this works, or should I just whip out the patent with my name on it?

The efficiency gain I talk about is TOTALLY dependent upon the crop. For cannabis, you'll never hit 95%, but I can hit it with all sorts of fodder grasses and other vegetative crops. I can grow those WITHOUT LIGHT AT ALL, basically making the system only dependent upon power for the nutrient reservoir and temp control.

As stated above, lumens is measured at 555nm. That's not taking the ENTIRE irradiant flux, which from monochromatic diodes can WELL EXCEED 300 irradiant lux/w. The blue diodes ALONE are doing that, as that's what the Cree white is based from.

I think you should spend 3-4 years on Candlepower and learn, and even then you'd still be 100 years too young to try me. Even the usage of LED for horticulture is so beyond them that they're not qualified to discuss it.

Now pardon me while I finish inventing a 300w single-package diode with totally passive cooling. South Korea LOVES me right now. Seoul Semiconductor is almost falling over themselves with my new diode design.

Maximum theoretical output is ~683 irradiant lumens per watt, FYI. Monochromatic LEDs are EASILY past the halfway mark.

I just wanted to point out that you dont have a clue about how LEDs works, when you pretend to work on it, more yet, in research.

Your answer confirms completely that you dont know what you talk about. You know so little about the topic that you not realize how do you confirm it each time you write about LEDs.

Lux/W? Do you still pretend to work on lighting desing? I let it as a typo. Just to inform you, lux is a unit of light density refered to the surface being lit, not an unit that measures light emission from the light source.

That figure from Cree report about lab (generally not avalaible comercially until one year later) means a great jump over current efficiencies of white LEDs, in which Cree is the actual leader.

And still with that large improvement, 208 lm/W is below an efficiency of 70%, on best case. Likely its about 64%, that is really great, very good news for everybody interested on LED lighting. But very far from 95%, that is not expected to be reached before 2020, if possible.

LEDs avalaible right now are all way far from that figure. Best bin served by Cree (do you need I explain what is a LED bin?) currently in white is S2, 148-156lm#350mA, for the XP-G, typically running at about 3V at that current, thus a power burned of 1.05W. Still without taking into account efficiency degradation by operating temperature and taking the max possible of the bin, 156lm, its 148 lm/W.

Thtas is on coolwhite, with Luminous Efficacy of Radiation about 300 lm/W, so the energy efficiency of those 14 148lm/W is of 49%. And this is maximun posible, keeping chip temperature at 25ºC. On normal conditions, best XP-G S2 bin is about 45% efficient (45% of input energy emitted as light and the rest released as heat).

For other brands and no top bins (actually, very difficult to find, apart of very expensive), usually efficiencies are about 35% for good LEDs and bins, and below 30% for most used generic ones.

I am member of candlepower forums since many years ago. Please, read a litlle about LEDs before predenting to teach people that is miles away of your knowledge about the topic.

This conversation is like you see someone saying to an audience of people that dont know nothing about indoor growing:

"Ive grown plants indoor for 20 years, Ive used almost any lighting avalaible, grow styles, I know a lot about his."

An later, says, "use 50W of HID on each square meter (11 sq ft) and you will get great results".

Maybe an audience that knows nothing about growing may pass such a wrong statement. But no any experienced grower will remain silent after reading that.

You, after being caught on your ignorance, still pretend to know a lot about the topic, and each time you write about it you only shows your ignorance to anybody minimally educated on the topic you pretend you are an expert.

It is obvious that you dont work on this field. If you do, you are a simple seller, that knows nothing about the technical side of the question.

Stop dreaming about your wonderfull patent that SCC loves so much. You have been caught in your lies, kid. D Are you sure you have the age required to post at this forum?

Continue showing your ignorance if you wish. I just pretend people knows you are not who pretend to be, and that you dont know this topic in deep to pretend to be an authority. Now people that dont know nothing about this at least knows that they must take with a big grain of salt what you write.

Guys, believe what this kid writes at your own risk. You are warned.

[knna]

Some more detailed explanation of how this kid talks about what knows almost nothing, just have read a little a mix all concepts involved.

As this pearl:


208 lux/w, more than half of what you requested, and destroying ANY HID. And that's just in the GREEN band where lumens are weighted, that's not including red or blue emissions.


As stated above, lumens is measured at 555nm. That's not taking the ENTIRE irradiant flux, which from monochromatic diodes can WELL EXCEED 300 irradiant lux/w. The blue diodes ALONE are doing that, as that's what the Cree white is based from.


Surprising on any working in lighting, you dont know lumen emission is calculated weighting the radiant flux by the CIE photopic curve.

Lm, as a unit, is defined in relation to candel (cd), at 555nm wavelenght. Its defined that way because human sensibility to light peaks at 555nm. And yes, you were able to find lumen definition and see that 1 watt (optical) of 555nm light produces 683lm.

But when you calculate the lumen emission of a lamp, that generally is not monochromatic of 555nm, the process to do it is to integrate full visible radiant flux (between 380 and 780nm) by the photopic curve.

A lamp emitting 1000lm not emits 1000lm on the green. It produces a bright sensation to humans of 1000lm, with the partial sensibility produced by each wavelenght 380-780nm added to reach that figure.

Im not sure if this mistake is larger than the 90% radiant efficiency of LEDs. The second is very severe for someone working with LEDs, but somewhat understandable (hardly) for someone focused on other fields of lighting.

But ignoring the first points out to someone that never has designed any lighting of any type nor have had any profesional relationship with this field. All lighting designers have to carefully decide what spectrum to use in order to maximize lm output from a given radiant flux while optimizing chromatic reproduction. Only a person that only have read in the context of horticulture lamps, where lumen output is almost irrelevant can do such mistake. No any lighting profesional can be wrong about it, there is nothing more esential in lighting design.

BTW, khyberkitsune, the emissiom from a lamp is called radiant flux, not irradiant. Prefix "i" added to lighting concepts signals they refers to the target being lit, not to the light source. Lux is a unit for irradiance (actually, of illuminance, as its weighted by photopic curve,), not radiant flux.

Do you notice how you show you dont know about this each time you write about it?


The efficiency gain I talk about is TOTALLY dependent upon the crop. For cannabis, you'll never hit 95%, but I can hit it with all sorts of fodder grasses and other vegetative crops. I can grow those WITHOUT LIGHT AT ALL, basically making the system only dependent upon power for the nutrient reservoir and temp control.


Any minimally educated and experienced grower can take its own conclusion.

[bigsby]

I see the mods are deleting my posts in here. For what? Have the decency to explain your actions. That way I might understand your motives. I didn't disrespect Knna in the post you deleted. In fact, just the opposite.

Is that why this thread has gone silent? Are the mods deleting further posts to this thread or is it just me? Oh wait, no they also deleted his response to me. So it isn't just me. I guess b/c he quoted me?

[Prodaytrader]

this was a good thread, now its relegated to trash talk and polite fock u's.

I tell you something I have learned over the years. Somebody with a passion and no intelligence can often go much further in life then someone with all the intelligence and no passion. Somebody who might work in a particular field may or may not be a subject matter expert, nor does it mean they will be on the bleeding edge of their field. How many educated people have you encountered in your life that appear to know very little? Knowing one thing and knowing it well is often more profitable then knowing lots about everything. The light expert may or may not be correct in this discussion, but he has done something you have not and that's make a living selling, building and designing lights. Can you say that? No matter how much technical knowledge you might have, until you start putting that light together, you have no idea what will or will not work.

Warren Buffet will be the first to admit that he is wrong at least 1/2 the time. Where he differentiates himself is his ability to quickly recognize when he's wrong and adapt. Experience is what gives him that ability, not knowledge. His knowledge in this example led him astray (in that he bought a bad company), but his experience and insight is what allows him to adapt.

[Ocotillo]

Exactly what is the weakest link in news groups and what turns folks off to the format. :(


this was a good thread, now its relegated to trash talk and polite fock u's.

[lbrends]

any more info on the induction lights?or has this thread run dry like every other test grow out there what a joke.i have one of these lights 400w bi-spectrum and was hoping for some honest feed back not all the b.s. that is going on here,i would love to post some results but not sure this is a waste of everyone's time.lets refocus here and talk about the task at hand learning about new light technology........thanks........luke

[khyberkitsune]

"But when you calculate the lumen emission of a lamp, that generally is not monochromatic of 555nm, the process to do it is to integrate full visible radiant flux (between 380 and 780nm) by the photopic curve."

But the full weighting of it is directly at 555nm.

Luminous flux means jack to plants. Radiometric flux is what matters. You try rating lights by lumens and it tells you nothing. Green 1w diode versus red 1w diode, the green will always have the higher lumen content. This weighting is totally unequal and thus PERFECTLY POINTLESS TO USE. Photometray and radiometry are two different subjects, pal.

"Surprising on any working in lighting, you dont know lumen emission is calculated weighting the radiant flux by the CIE photopic curve."

Actually, it's that PLUS MORE. But that doesn't matter, as BOTH CIE charts (1930 and 1964) are OUTDATED. We don't use those graphs any longer - that shows how far behind in this industry you are, as those also only applied to human lighting, and not plant lighting.

Here, have a picture of UPDATED color space charts we use today, not that 1930's CIE nonsense.

No wonder you seem so uneducated. You are at least THIRTY YEARS behind the times.

[knna]

Sadly, you insist to be an expert on the field but continue holding things that are very wrong. You know you cant give any decent argument to convince people who knows, but obviously your only purpose is to fool inocent people to sell them your chinese panels as the holy grail of horticultural lamps.

If they are so fool to do it after being warned, its their problem.

The fact is you ordered chinese LEDs panels as any individual can do without knowing anything about lighting. Any can call one of the hundreds of chinese companies building UFOs and so and order some lamps using a custom color configuration, of unkown LEDs of unkown perfomance.

And you try to appear as an expert that has carried thousand of experiments to tell your panels are way better that the others. Your false claim that you are an expert on lighting, director of research of a multinational company, its just a marketing strategy directed to fool growers to buy an inferior product, very cheap to order, for a way higher price. More of the marketing BS so abundant on the MJ forums.

Lm is only a way to calculate radiometric efficiency from well known units. Its clear you dont know how lumen of a light source are calculated. I wont try to convince you as you know you ignore it aswell as me. You only make noise to fool people and try they forget you are a fake identity of internet trying to rip them off.

Any person wanting to check radiometric efficiency of LEDs can download a datasheet of the highest efficient LEDs on the market (top brand Royal blue LEDs, as Cree, Osram, Lumileds...) and see with their own eyes actual efficiencies are below 50% on best cases. You can make all noise you want to fool people, but only those that never check things for themselves will be fooled. And I hope you can only rip off a few of those who dont. Thats my only purpose warning.

I wont enter in a sterile debate with a person that lies on purpose looking for easy cash.

You have been unmasked. If now people still believes you, its their problem. You can continue making noise, surely a few will fall on your tricks

[neceros]

I don't know jack about lights. That being said I'd give Khyber my thumbs up simply because he's showing evidence and knna is rehashing the same thing.

Hell, even I know lumens don't matter to plants -- They can't see it.

[knna]

I don't know jack about lights. That being said I'd give Khyber my thumbs up simply because he's showing evidence and knna is rehashing the same thing.

Hell, even I know lumens don't matter to plants -- They can't see it.

For me, its perfect. That is what surfing online is, to discriminate your sources of info and choose what you do according with that.

Just search for the my posts on the web pointing out people that lumens are nothing to plants. Previous disscussion was not about that at all. He take the topic just to appear he knows he talks about.

Good luck

[krazyken]

Close the thread it's trashed. :wtf:

Ken

[knna]

Close the thread it's trashed. :wtf:

Ken

Probably true that the thread, that started very interesting, was trashed at some point. But you have been posting, together with khyberkitsune, since it was trashed, highjacking it just in the search of profit for your business.

Thread started by RackitMan asking for new flourescent induction lights. Bubas chime in with very enriching data about them and started a good debate about the possibilities of the new tecnology. He wanted to do some serious tests to check how it works. He started them, but unfortunatelly he only reported results from the starting progress.

At some point, he stopped posting (17 March of this year, more than 5 months ago). Still some other growers tried to continue the topic with interesting posts (Steveat1, squearepush3r, vannewb and some others), but khyberkitsune closed any debate negating any other arguments solely based on being an "expert" working in this field and knowing much more than any other one, when his arguments were not convincing. That is what trashed the thead, people with interesting contributions gone, on the last months nothing new appeared, only khyberkitsune talk, with no tests, no pics, no good info....nothing.

My purpose when I posted to unmask khyberkitsune is to give possibility to those who were aporting to the thread and gone when he closed all oportunities of constructive debate to come back and be able to learn something from people actually experimenting with induction lights, no vendor's BS.

[jacksparrow]

knna i also read this thread a couple times through and i really have no clue about all of this lighting stuff. yes khyber sounds like he knows what he is talking about, but you seem to think otherwise. i have been searching for an led light to buy, actually a couple, for around a month in a half, but havent found a site that im willing to invest my money in yet.

so knna my question is do you know a good led grow light source. i have checked out prosource, growledhydro, advancedled, and many others. a year ago i actually bought a 90w sunshinesystem ufo and it vegged really well buuuuttttt like everyone else i didnt get to flower it fully bc i was in appartment and had to move.

so i guess this question goes out to anyone who knows where to get a quality led, and please no one say friggin e-bay. also i talked to some at one prosoucre and he said that like 3w leds are a sham. he said you dont get more light penetration you get less? he said that the best leds a high quality 1w diodes.

someone give me some direction im so lost. everyone tells you something different. after this im done rambling but i have an led or i guess induction ,which im not real comfortable with buying at this point, bc of the area im growing in and i wanna be "low-profile". HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!

[vannewb]

... i have been searching for an led light to buy, actually a couple, for around a month in a half, but havent found a site that im willing to invest my money in yet.

so knna my question is do you know a good led grow light source. ...

... which im not real comfortable with buying at this point, bc of the area im growing in and i wanna be "low-profile". HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jacksparrow i'm in the same position as you as long with dozens or hundreds of other prospective purchasers.

There's no consensus yet on LEDs. Lots of convincing looking marketing, and some people have done decent grows with certain LEDs. But you seem to have to adjust your style for the lower heat of LEDs, e.g., move the plants closer, water less, etc.

In another forum seems to recommend KNNA building your own LED lamp for best spectrum & efficiency. A bit daunting for regular folks especially when the best mix of led spectrums is still being debated.

Induction seems like a potentially useful half-measure... less power than HID, but compensated for by targetted spectrum. The issue is: do the currently available power+spectrum combinations live up to the hype? Very little info right now. All we know for sure is that 6400k induction lights are poor for flowering, and that Khyber thinks he can get m-land to produce a much better spectrum than their current bi-spectrum units.

Unfortunately, the people who have spent the money on these units so far have not reported their results.

[knna]

The problem is LED industry is very inmature yet. And the related to horticulture, its barely a new born. First product on a industry usually are not good or very expensive. As industry matures, product go improving and competence drive prices down.

And it goes together with general LED industry fight to improve perfomance/price.

I would say that thing has reached a point that I expect good comercial horticultural LED light to be released from next year, able to be cost effective against other type of lightings.

Right now, LEDs can only be cost effective on small setups, IMHO. There are situations (grow area cooled by AA, for example) where they can be cost effective on larger dimensions, however.

But If you can wait a while, do it. Next year it is to expect you will have some good lamps to choose at decent prices per watt.

I dont know any comercial lamp good enough I may recomend it, and less with a good price per watt.

Thats why I recomend people to build them, but not all the people have the will, skills or time to do it. Most people using LED lamps right now are either experienced growers that want to experiment with them and help in the development of the new lighting paradigma, or new growers that, once they have to make an investment on lighting, decided to spend a little more thinking on the long term. Second case is partially a good choice (small grows) and partially not because they was somewhat fooled by marketing BS so they expected way more than actually these lamps can produce.

Induction light, on the other hand, arnt really new at all. Its just some chinese manufacturers started some ago to produce units for horticulture (both for spectrum and power range) at decent prices. I feel actual perfomance is far from claims, but I dont know for sure. Thats why I was interested at the start of this thread, looking for feedback from people using them. Although probably there is a lot of BS too around induction lamps, one thing is better than with LED lamps:

LEDs avalaible have a very large gap of efficiencies, and as manufacturers never inform exactly of the model and bin used (and I believe little when they do it), buying them is kind of a lottery. You can get an unit working decently or directly garbage valid as much for vegging.

On the other hand, fluorescent induction is more mature and its intrinsically a technology that result on small differences on efficiency between top brands and chinese copies (many times, top brands subcontract manufacturing with them). Thus, maybe not satisfy some claims, but at least you know they work decently. So if you get them for cheap, that is possible, its a decent option.

jacksparrow, I didnt said that khyber si ignorant. He is somebody that has read about lighting and other growing related topics, and knows more than the average grower about some topics. But he closed a debate with the argument of being an expert working on the field and its obviously false. He put it in his signature and that is dishonest. I felt in the duty, because I have the knowledge required to notice it, of warning other people about him not being who pretend. Thats all. I dont have any personal against him and dont have any problem he continues giving his opinion and sharing with other growers as far as do it without lies that may mislead other growers. And I would like to pass over it and keep the thread on topic.

[jacksparrow]

i appreciate the help guys. i know im getting off the topic of induction lighting but i am new to this forum and have some questions. the reason im really looking into leds or even possibly induction is bc im doing an attic grow, dont worry i have the heating and cooling issue already taken care of, but im worried about flir. see, i dont want to use the "ordinary grow bulb" bc im worried the heat signature will put a huge bullseye on my place and im def. wanting to avoid that. if i did use a bulb like a high pressure sodium bulb could i vent out of my room into the unused attic space to have a more uniform heat signature or is my signature unavoidable? or should i stick with led or induction? or should i just give up on the attic? any and all input welcome. i promise after this i wont get this thread off topic anymore. thanks for having patience with me.

[lbrends]

hi guys,i have been running the 400w bi-spectrum super grow light for 2 months now, just went to flower last week, biggest problem i see is the foot print is so small,and the reflector is crap i took the glass out and it looks like it is much brighter and covers way more area.one question i have is. if the one side is 6400k [blue] how come my t5 6400k is pure white [to my eye's]should not both the [induction] and [t5] 6400k be the same colour?......luke

[knna]

hi guys,i have been running the 400w bi-spectrum super grow light for 2 months now, just went to flower last week, biggest problem i see is the foot print is so small,and the reflector is crap i took the glass out and it looks like it is much brighter and covers way more area.one question i have is. if the one side is 6400k [blue] how come my t5 6400k is pure white [to my eye's]should not both the [induction] and [t5] 6400k be the same colour?......luke

Very interesting about the reflector. When I saw the pics I thought it will reflect many light back to the own lamp.

But if you take out the reflector, the more light yet is going to go upwards, not towards plants. ¿? How did you managed to avoid it?

The difference you notice between the two 6400K is mostly due you are not comparing them with other lights of other very different tone. If you do,you still will notice some difference, but will look very similar.

Its related to human's eye ability to adaptation and our brain ability to change the "white balance", as cameras. There are thousands different spectrums able to get same CCT rating (xxxx K). Although overall color tone alone is almost the same, chromatic reproduction isnt, it depends of how is the exact spectrum that generated that given CCT. So as light is reflected back, you notice the difference and one 6400K may appear greenish regarding the other, for example, more bluish (but if you put a 2700K lamp at side, you will notice both 6400K as mostly bluish).

On the other hand, there is tolerances between the rating and the actual CCT emitted, which increases with use (age of lamp). If actually both lamps are emiting at 6550K and 6300K, example perfectly possible, difference would be way more noticiable.

jacksparrow, I didnt answer because I really dont know what LEO finds using FLIR cameras and how they use them. Probably what they look for is for heated air column being exhausted the house and some room being hotter than others. The better insulated the house walls, the less difference in temperature between walls of different rooms they will notice. Aswell, materials reflecting back IR on the inner walls minimize observed temperature for the outside. Of course, the closer the temperature of the growroom to the rest of the hosue, the more difficult to notice something, and its way easier to achieve with an smaller heat load. If you grow on a cabinet not along a wall that looks to the outside, and the temp of the room is similar to the rest of the house, likely is very difficult that any FLIR camera reveals anything. If htere is no hot air being exhausted to the outside coupled with that, I believe FLIR detection shouldnt be an issue.

[oldmac]

Hello knna,

Long time no see....cause I was away for awhile. Glad to see you still comming around here, the average board IQ goes up significantly when you are around. :thumbsup:


Very interesting about the reflector. When I saw the pics I thought it will reflect many light back to the own lamp.

You hit one of the major problems with these induction bulbs, they are huge at least a T-12 and I remember the one from 25 years ago seemed even bigger. They can't help but to reflect back on themselves. Wasn't worth growing with back then and I still think they are not worth growing with.

On the other hand, interesting lights comming from both LG Electronics and Luxim corporation. New generation of plasma light, can be true "full spectrum" with great watt/lumen conversion. Just the prices need to come down. And decent grow light company needs apply them properly.

Take care, see ya around. :D

[vannewb]

On the other hand, interesting lights comming from both LG Electronics and Luxim corporation. New generation of plasma light, can be true "full spectrum" with great watt/lumen conversion. Just the prices need to come down. And decent grow light company needs apply them properly.
When do the lights come out?

How long til they're tested?

Always lots of exciting-sounding light technologies just around the corner. But almost never does someone independent make a decent comparison of their grow performance. I guess because they hardly ever live up to the hype.

[oldmac]

Hi there vannewb,

Luxim is already shipping the acutal working part to other mfgs now. For grow lights with these, see Chameleon Grow Systems who even has 2- LiFi lights combined with some LEDs and is asking almost $7k for it, system VI I think it is called. But their designs looks like crap to me. Stray Light Optical Technologies is building reef illuminaries for the aquarium market, these actually look better for growing, but they have a strange degree kelvin, they may or may not work. Claims that 288 watts is equal to 400-465 watts of HID is what Luxim is talking. Oh and without the heat. We will see soon.:D

[knna]

Yep, those and others (GAVITA) are releasing plasma bulbs right now. Too expensive for the moment.

Results Im aware of point up to excelent quality, but really not higher yields per watt burned than HPS. If they were no so expensive, they would be a nice alternative.

Notice that "plasma" lamps are actually induction (electrodeless) lamps, but HID ones (high intensity) while the lamps this thread was comenting are fluorescent induction (low pressure) ones. While with fluorescent induction the spectrum may be similar to that obtained by standard, with electrodes, fluorescents, with HIDs things change. Plama allows to get very different spectrums, but all being released for the moment are strongly greenish and with a relatively low red (especially deep red) emission (thats why the LiFi comes with deep red leds).

Right now the larger drawback of these lamps are the ballast losses, which are very significative and account for a way larger percentage in regards to bulb's power than with conventional HIDs. So when you ask a manufacturer about them, always ask for the system (ballast+bulb) power. They tend to forget to inform about it, you know.

Oldmac, Im glad to see you recovered and posting again. I hope all is right now for you :thumbsup:

[ml2242]

i was looking at some here InductionLamps.com: Your source for all Induction Lamps and Fixtures (http://www.inductionlamps.com/) only 340$ for a 300watt tell me what u think

Do they come with all necessary parts though? looks like and un-wired ballast and bulb to me... and their grow lights at the bottom are way over priced

[MrLegal]

lol u can just buy the Remote Ballast Induction Lamp and hang it you self right?
i mean if u get the 2700k it would be the same as there grow light. i would like to know if this would work too

[vannewb]

lol u can just buy the Remote Ballast Induction Lamp and hang it you self right?
i mean if u get the 2700k it would be the same as there grow light. i would like to know if this would work too
That's what I'm doing, having one of those lamp being shipped from china. In a few months we'll discover how well it works.


Results Im aware of point up to excelent quality, but really not higher yields per watt burned than HPS. If they were no so expensive, they would be a nice alternative.
As far as I'm concerned the main measure of "quality" that matters is yields/watt.

If these lights don't outperform HPS then they're a waste of time.

[vannewb]

My "120w" induction lamp arrived recently.

I plugged it in and tested the voltage & current going to the ballast : 0.6a @ 120.0v. (both are accurate to 1/10th). This means my lamp is only consuming 66w-78w of power.

If anyone else has a chinese made induction lamp i'd be very interested to hear how much power it's actually consuming vs. the sticker.

[lbrends]

i will check out my 400w bi-spectrum i heard it is only 360w but i will see for myself.

[calbunn]

very impressive results with my 100 watt induction for clone and veg with the 400 watt inda-gro lights. Plasma really doesn't have an edge over induction horticulture lamps.

[YouGrowBoy]

very impressive results with my 100 watt induction for clone and veg with the 400 watt inda-gro lights. Plasma really doesn't have an edge over induction horticulture lamps.

I notice all your posts are about the induction lamp. You sure do like them and are a very good sales rep. for them but do you have any pics of your garden to show?

I know that if I was touting them as much as you I'd be showing pics as proof. That would really help to sell the product.

:rastasmoke:

[Zompton]

Does anyone know where i can reliably get an induction light that is proven to be close to the production of a 400w HID?!?!?

[vannewb]

No one has shown any results from growing with induction.

I put a kill-a-watt on my 120w induction & 250w HPS (magnetic ballast). They apparently consumed 110w & 350w respectively.

I'm going to run a test with 120w induction + 23w T5HO vs. the 250w HPS.

I wanted to do a 2:1 power comparison but it'll be more like 2.5:1 comparison.

[calbunn]

I notice all your posts are about the induction lamp. You sure do like them and are a very good sales rep. for them but do you have any pics of your garden to show?

I know that if I was touting them as much as you I'd be showing pics as proof. That would really help to sell the product.

:rastasmoke:

Thanks for the compliment. These grows have been averaging around 300 grams p/meter. much lower temperatures in the room and I've not had a spider mite issue in four grows. So the HID probably made that a favorable environment me thinks. Pics as requested!

[vannewb]

calbun do you use the 400w as a 1-for-1 replacement with your 1000w HPS?

Or would you use something like 3 inductions for every 2 HPSs?

[canniwhatsis]

Thanks for the compliment. These grows have been averaging around 300 grams p/meter. much lower temperatures in the room and I've not had a spider mite issue in four grows. So the HID probably made that a favorable environment me thinks. Pics as requested!

:wtf: First pic looks like it's still in vege,.... 2nd,.... well there's no size comparison, but I've gotten better off of my HPS.


So what's the sell on the induction? Show me some finished plants just before cut!:cool::wtf:

[hilights]

So the jury still out or has someone out there put a room to head and can show us all some pics
Thanks
HeadDownunder

[vannewb]

So the jury still out or has someone out there put a room to head and can show us all some pics
If calbunn claims his "400w" induction can match a 1000w HPS, then my "120w" induction ought to match a 250w HPS.

My friend thinks the induction won't even yield 1/3 as much as the HPS. Personally I expect to yield 2/3 or 3/4 as much. I guess we'll see once the show is on the road!

[hilights]

Mland brand and super grow unbranded look the same is the unbranded super grow the same lamp, all these things look great as we all know the big question is do they have enough power to penetrate deep enough to produce good big bud.So the site that sells the Mland is the same one that sells the LEDS and well I don't like em .
What about the INDA-gro is this the same concept as the others how dose it compare
Thanks so far All your ideas have been helpfull
HeadDownunder

[bubbas]

Here is a link to our a grow with a Parmax EFDL 200 watter 2700K YouTube - Inductiongrow (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1VPvNd8OTo) this is at 5 weeks of flower but you can follow his other post from the beginning. I have spent the last few months figuring out a couple of serious issues with induction lights. First the ballast were overheating and causing the lights to flicker after about 6 hours of operation. This eventually blew the ballast. the second issue was the bulb would lose output to about half brightness after a few hours of operation but was fine when it cooled down. Well after countless hours we finnally addressed the issues and had our manufacturer fix the problems according to our directions.(wasn't easy with a language barrier!!)
Since then we noticed a few new importers introduced a new induction light called the bispectrum or super grow light. The bispectrum light is a combonation of two different phosphours to produce one half of the bulb in 2700K and the other half with the dreaded purple color spectrum. I have attached a copy of our 300 watt spectral distribution test along with the bispectrum spectral test. At first you are going to be blown away by the spectral graph of the bispectrum test, but if you continue to read the report, you will find that the luminous efficiency is only 10.4 lumins/watt (although resellers are quoting 40 lumins/watt) sure the spectrum looks great on both red and blue scale but light penatration is a big issue with these lights. If you compare it to the 2700K 300 watt test you will see that the light efficiency is much better at 81 lumins/ watt and punching out over 33000 lumins. With a bit of tweaking , we believe we can get the 300 watt 2700K induction light to come close to 800 watts of HPS. If you read the 2700K test you will see that this light peaks at 615nM and peaters off in the far red. This is very close to the spectral distribution of HPS except the HPS has more in the green and yellow range and also lacks in the far red. My idea is to suppliment the missing wavelengths with LEDs. We are going to build a 300 watt EFDL with built in supplimental led's. I'm hoping to add about 50 watts of led.
There are a lot of sceptics out there for these lights so what i'm going to do is i am going to give this light to a lucky cadidate to do a nonbias grow journal anyone interested? We already know our 300 watt EFDL 2700K works and keeps up to 600 watts of LED and HPS but i'm confident the added spectrum will knock this light out of the park!
I'm still trying to source a supplier of LED's so i should have this light ready in about a month.

[bubbas]

I'm having troubles loading the bispectrum test it seems too large a file i will try to shrink it

[hilights]

Thanks for that info bubbas. Looks like a great job your doing .In your opinion the "super grow" Light(Mland) would not work as well as yours.and would you say the INDA-Gro is much the same as what you are using.

[bubbas]

Hi Hilights,
I can't say for sure the new and improved bispectrums won't work as well as standard spectrum bulbs but their specifications sure point in that direction. I testd the first generation all purple lights and they were terrible. They like first gen LED's vegged well but fell flat on the flowering so to improve it they made half the bulb in 2700K. I don't have a lot of info on the inda gro. i see they have 5250K. This color is a full spectrum color that has blue and red spectrum in it however more in the visible range of green and yellow light and less red but decent blue. I would suggest to ask them for a spectral power distribution test data. Their grow light fixture does look better than the Mland as there is no glass and the ballast is out in the open. The mland fixture is actually a tunnel lamp fixture. It has the ballast fully enclosed within the fixture and a piece of glass to protect the bulb. It's IP68 which means its waterproof but why? are we growing outdoors? It only causes overheating issues. We had overheating issues even without glass and our ballast was not enclosed so having it IP68 would make overheating matters worse.Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying others are shit so we can sell more of ours but we don't want disappointed growers who spent a lot of cash for these lights and have them perform poorly and in return telling the world that induction lights are crap. We know they work and are in the next stage of improving them to work even better than any other grow light out there.
We look at HPS and MH lights like old 60's muscle cars, Lots of HP and gobbled up fuel like there was no tommorow. LED's and induction lights are like the new gen of muscle cars more hp but sips fuel. Did you know that Hyundai's sport coupe is quicker than almost all the 60's and 70's muscle cars but still gets 30MPG that's technology!!

[jstepp590]

Well I for one am interested in these lights. Granted the initial startup cost is higher than HID but considering that you don't have the heat generated you get with HPS and the bulbs last far longer in the long run it is actually comparable to HPS. I have been looking at the inductionlamps.com 500w light in 2700k and after adding the cost of a ballast, hood, bulb (every 8 months to a year), hood cooling fan, tubing, squirrel cage etc of a 1000w HPS they are only a couple hundred more, and that is if I get the cheap ballast instead of the digital.

I would like to use a Aquamist system with it so the penetration isn't as much of an issue since they are so short in that table but of course a side by side, even with an HPS at the same watt as the induction, in an actual grow would be the clincher for me. I'm not trying to save power but heat and the necessity of venting heat. It would be a pain to set that up in my home with all the tubing and necessity of tearing apart my vent system to reach the outdoors from my basement, once my state goes medical.

IMHO the best light is still a true sulphur plasma from plasma-i but they aren't retail yet and cost WAYYYY too much. That full spectrum would be amazing though.

[hilights]

Hi bubbas
That gives me a better perspective on things and I'll bet your right, these "Mland" and I presume "Super grow" that look the same and have the same marketing blurb (water proof ? lasts for a human life time etc etc ) if it sounds to good to be true it probably is , Are made for another purpose ,not growing heads indoors.
It surprises me that there is not more people out there absolutely raving about these super grow lights (looks the same as Mland) if they really worked I'm in OZ and we only just got them here but there bin around for a while in America

[jstepp590]

Well I for one am interested in these lights. Granted the initial startup cost is higher than HID but considering that you don't have the heat generated you get with HPS and the bulbs last far longer in the long run it is actually comparable to HPS. I have been looking at the inductionlamps.com 500w light in 2700k and after adding the cost of a ballast, hood, bulb (every 8 months to a year), hood cooling fan, tubing, squirrel cage etc of a 1000w HPS they are only a couple hundred more, and that is if I get the cheap ballast instead of the digital.

I would like to use a Aquamist system with it so the penetration isn't as much of an issue since they are so short in that table but of course a side by side, even with an HPS at the same watt as the induction, in an actual grow would be the clincher for me. I'm not trying to save power but heat and the necessity of venting heat. It would be a pain to set that up in my home with all the tubing and necessity of tearing apart my vent system to reach the outdoors from my basement, once my state goes medical.

IMHO the best light is still a true sulphur plasma from plasma-i but they aren't retail yet and cost WAYYYY too much. That full spectrum would be amazing though.

Oops, I just watched the video you posted on your prior post using the 200w induction. Great job on that plant, it looks amazing, and thank you for posting the video. After seeing that I no longer need a side by side with a HPS, that is more than good enough for me. If that is the 200w in 2700k I am FASCINATED to see what the 500w will do!

[brynpav]

Hi Hilights,
I can't say for sure the new and improved bispectrums won't work as well as standard spectrum bulbs but their specifications sure point in that direction. I testd the first generation all purple lights and they were terrible. They like first gen LED's vegged well but fell flat on the flowering so to improve it they made half the bulb in 2700K. I don't have a lot of info on the inda gro. i see they have 5250K. This color is a full spectrum color that has blue and red spectrum in it however more in the visible range of green and yellow light and less red but decent blue. I would suggest to ask them for a spectral power distribution test data. Their grow light fixture does look better than the Mland as there is no glass and the ballast is out in the open. The mland fixture is actually a tunnel lamp fixture. It has the ballast fully enclosed within the fixture and a piece of glass to protect the bulb. It's IP68 which means its waterproof but why? are we growing outdoors? It only causes overheating issues. We had overheating issues even without glass and our ballast was not enclosed so having it IP68 would make overheating matters worse.Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying others are shit so we can sell more of ours but we don't want disappointed growers who spent a lot of cash for these lights and have them perform poorly and in return telling the world that induction lights are crap. We know they work and are in the next stage of improving them to work even better than any other grow light out there.
We look at HPS and MH lights like old 60's muscle cars, Lots of HP and gobbled up fuel like there was no tommorow. LED's and induction lights are like the new gen of muscle cars more hp but sips fuel. Did you know that Hyundai's sport coupe is quicker than almost all the 60's and 70's muscle cars but still gets 30MPG that's technology!!

I really like your Hyundai analogy and it's relevance to the induction lights. I've personally seen 4 of the 400 watt induction lights that inda-gro makes installed in a 10' x 10' room where there had been 3 1000 watt hps. The room is definetly cooler and the plants were within the last week or two of grow so the kush buds were as good as I'd seen under the hps grows.

For now I'm just using the inda-gro 100 watters for cloning and veg. I like them and would certainly recommend them over the other energy efficient fixture/lamp combination's I've tried. But I'm no expert. What I've learned about induction I picked up from forums like this and the inda-gro site.

[canshake]

I would be very much interested in testing out your induction lighting, I'm currently using a 400 watt med halide....with a broad spectrum band width.
in return I will give a full in-depth analysis of the products performance for the privilege of testing the system. thanks for the opportunity:Chris:)

[calbunn]

Try calling Inda-Gro and ask for Darryl. They may have a way of doing that for you but you'll never know unless you ask. They do rock though.

[tevfik]

Hi all,
I've read almost half of this thread. These are my personal opinions about these lights. If i say anything wrong, please correct me.
I don't know much about LED and HPS, i know only CFL. I'll just compare with CFL.
The comparison based on 5 years continuously flowering and for one plant only! In reality it may make much more difference.

First of all they're very expensive! No other thoughts at all :)
Yes they have longlife like 25 years in 12/12 flowering. 5 years warranty.
Lets say i bought a 200W around $450 plus delivery ($100) on ebay. I'm saying it because first of all i must look my ability to buy these. Thats the only source right now i could find cheapest.
I can also buy myself 8x 23w (184W in total) 2500k cfl's for $35 only, from a store here 30 mins from home. Not those cheap chinese things. They're Osram and they have specific spectrums. I also have cheapest chinese bulbs, one is pink and the other one is orange look. I don't have time to waste on unknown pink or orange 2700k's (?). If anyone has and if they work well that'll save much more money.
Do CFL's only have 6 months? After 6 months needs to be replaced? No problem. This makes 70$ per year and 350$ for 5 years. $200 saved! (By the way god knows what will happen in 5 years. There were no grow leds 2 years ago for example. No one can guarantee what will happen to you tomorrow. So putting half thousand bucks on a lamp for long term (specially for 25 years?) didn't seem too clever to me.)
All say CFL's are hot. Yes they are, 2 computer fan is enough to cool them down ($5).Thats what i do. If you still say too hot, there are some other options such as two pins CFL's. They work as cool as these lights (Writing 25C on Osram's website).Outputs 85lm/w. I don't know exact prices of those (bulb+ballast) but i must say if you buy, in 5 years they'll average self ballasted CFL's.
Lets continue the comparison with self ballasted CFL's.
8x23w CFL :12000lm approx. Well enough for a plant. Average light supply for every side of the plant.
1x200w Ind:9000lm, some other sources say 1600lm but it depends on spectrum i guess. 9000lm looks enough for a plant. "No supplemental lights needed" said. But tests showed, results were far from HPS. Only recommended with supplemental CFL's for better results??? One 4x23W used here. That makes 300W/14800lm in total. Well enough for a plant but what is the point of using these lights then? This i'm saying here also same for the LED's.
And here are the graphics. What makes this lights more useful (%96) for plants?

HPS [attachment=o260514] Induction[attachment=o260516] 2700k CFL [attachment=o260515]

I'm a simple CFL user. I don't understand much on terms and I don't want to obstacle anyone specially in business. I just want to run HPS but my room will not let me to do. So I interested any kind of other alternatives but reasonable. I will not fly to the moon with these lamps. If i fly, that will be only self flying and will be fair enough :jointsmile:
Stay in peace :hippy:

[Dutch Pimp]

So I interested any kind of other alternatives but reasonable. I will not fly to the moon with these lamps. If i fly, that will be only self flying and will be fair enough :jointsmile:


If I couldn't go HID lighting?....I would go High Output T5's or PL-L fluorescent tubes.

http://boards.cannabis.com/indoor-lighting/184095-l-type-fluorescent-tubes.html

[tevfik]

If I couldn't go HID lighting?....I would go High Output T5's or PL-L fluorescent tubes.
Thanks DP. I actually meant this PL-L tubes by sayin 2 pins and that was the first thing in my mind, maybe not for this grow but next one i'm switching to them for sure.

[Dutch Pimp]

Thanks DP. I actually meant this PL-L tubes by sayin 2 pins and that was the first thing in my mind, maybe not for this grow but next one i'm switching to them for sure.
with CFL's, T5's, PL-L or any other fluoros...you have to SCROG, etc...keep plants low, wide & short...:thumbsup:

[khyberkitsune]

with CFL's, T5's, PL-L or any other fluoros...you have to SCROG, etc...keep plants low, wide & short...:thumbsup:

I've never had to do that.

Vertical T5HO to the rescue!

[Dutch Pimp]

I've never had to do that.

Vertical T5HO to the rescue!

where's the beef?

[tevfik]

I've never had to do that.

Vertical T5HO to the rescue!

How big is the area? How many watts each? How did you secure the middle tubes from any kind of accident? Isn't it easy and safer to set PLL's like that? Plus they don't have much different outputs than T5's. They're shorter, and only needs to hanged from one side. If we go deep into that i'll find more reasons to not use T5. So I'll just keep comparising.


The comparison based on 5 years continuously flowering and for one plant only! In reality it may make much more difference.

All say CFL's are hot. Yes they are, 2 computer fan is enough to cool them down ($5).Thats what i do. If you still say too hot, there are some other options such as two pins CFL's. They work as cool as these lights (Writing 25C on Osram's website).Outputs 85lm/w. I don't know exact prices of those (bulb+ballast) but i must say if you buy, in 5 years they'll average self ballasted CFL's.


This "two pin CFL" i meant PLL's. I made a price and some other information research.

So here we go:

RA 80-90 bulbs (8xx) :
18,24 and 36w bulbs are $6.20
40 and 55w bulbs are $7.70
12000h lifetime (3 years in our comparison)

RA 90+ bulbs (9xx) 7500h lifetime:
18,24 and 36w bulbs are $11.80
40 and 55w bulbs are $13.60
7500h lifetime (2 years in our comparison)

I'll need one ballast for each two bulbs.
from 18 to 55w ballasts are $29.20
Life of 100,000 hours and more (22 years in our comparison.)

i'm buying 2x55 and 2x40 = $58.40 + $30.80 (+ $20 if i want 9xx's)
That will make 190w, and give the lights equally if i put 55's on center and 40's on sides. This is another advantage.
16600lm in total. Reached 3860lm per square meter.


4000 lumens sq. ft./43000 lumens sq. m. = Very good growth. Once you pass around 3500, growth rate and ability goes up fast.


Or we can go 100w of PLL and 100w of Fluora. That makes more sense to me than paying a half thousand on a tunnel light and hanging cfl's around.

[attachment=o260617] [attachment=o260618] [attachment=o260620][attachment=o260621]

Still, tell me, what makes this "inda-Bro" lights %96 useful for plants? Is it because all those light companies didn't know how to make plant lamps and they were messing around with all their sources to produce some grow fluorescent called gro or bio or natura then some genius engineers suddenly found that they were wrong???

[vanduction]

There are a lot of sceptics out there for these lights so what i'm going to do is i am going to give this light to a lucky cadidate to do a nonbias grow journal anyone interested? We already know our 300 watt EFDL 2700K works and keeps up to 600 watts of LED and HPS but i'm confident the added spectrum will knock this light out of the park!
I'm still trying to source a supplier of LED's so i should have this light ready in about a month.
Hi Bubbas,

We live in the same area and have spoken on the phone twice about your lights. At the time you did not have anything less than 400w, so I ordered from another company.

Your thread inspired me to build cabinets & start a 250w vs. 120w comparison. It is about half way through flower. Grow log is here: http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-log/192402-hps-vs-induction-cfl-flowering-comparison.html. There's so much hype out there, but so little useful results, that I decided I had to discover for myself what the REAL facts were.

If you are serious about an honest, head-to-head, documented comparison, then I believe I'm the best candidate to do it, because:

1) no expense or worries about shipping to a guy without meeting him
2) My cabinets are specifically designed for exactly the kind of testing you want done.
3) I'm proving my ability to complete a grow log with objectivity.
4) if you want, i'll return your hardware after the test.

[Indagrojeff]

In lighting we refer to it as a particular lamps efficacy.


it is converted into light not heat .watts is watts its true but ya'll need to understand that this is a measure of energy used not of light output.when the light fixture converts electricity to light some of the energy is lost as heat. incandescent bulbs lose most of that energy as heat....LEDs not so much..... i think this may be called lighting efficiency or something like that ..........the point being that fixtures that convert energy into light with less heat generation will heat the room less.

[khyberkitsune]

"watts is watts its true but ya'll need to understand that this is a measure of energy used not of light output."

No, in fact we do radiometric wattage output readings as well - that is how we determine the actual efficiency of the diode.

An LED spec sheet will typically show the power output of a 460nm or lower diode in terms of milliwatts, not lumens.

[bubbas]

Hi Bubbas,

We live in the same area and have spoken on the phone twice about your lights. At the time you did not have anything less than 400w, so I ordered from another company.

Your thread inspired me to build cabinets & start a 250w vs. 120w comparison. It is about half way through flower. Grow log is here: http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-log/192402-hps-vs-induction-cfl-flowering-comparison.html. There's so much hype out there, but so little useful results, that I decided I had to discover for myself what the REAL facts were.

If you are serious about an honest, head-to-head, documented comparison, then I believe I'm the best candidate to do it, because:

1) no expense or worries about shipping to a guy without meeting him
2) My cabinets are specifically designed for exactly the kind of testing you want done.
3) I'm proving my ability to complete a grow log with objectivity.
4) if you want, i'll return your hardware after the test.

Hi Vanduction,

Give me a call. i can set something up. My chosen test subject on 420 has gone MIA i'll give him a few weeks to contact me again. However i have some new 2100K EFDL's that just arrived. so we can do a test with them instead. Send me a private message and we'll exchange contacts or just call me i guess you already have my number

[123xyz]

Bumping this thread back to the top. This thread has been all talk no journals lol.

Bubbas, who is the candidate and where is the link to their grow (or links to any grow!!!)

[vanduction]

Bumping this thread back to the top. This thread has been all talk no journals lol.

Bubbas, who is the candidate and where is the link to their grow (or links to any grow!!!)
Here is a grow journal using 250w HPS vs. 120w induction + 24w CFL: http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-log/192402-hps-vs-induction-cfl-flowering-comparison.html

Bubbas promised to lend me an induction light but hasn't delivered.

If any other manufacturer wants to step up with a sample to be tested head-to-head, let me know. (I believe a 400w HPS vs. 200w Induction would be best)

[squarepush3r]

Here is a grow journal using 250w HPS vs. 120w induction + 24w CFL: http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-log/192402-hps-vs-induction-cfl-flowering-comparison.html

Bubbas promised to lend me an induction light but hasn't delivered.

If any other manufacturer wants to step up with a sample to be tested head-to-head, let me know. (I believe a 400w HPS vs. 200w Induction would be best)

great post. Looks like induction is just not quite there yet

[khyberkitsune]

great post. Looks like induction is just not quite there yet

It's not going to be there for a LONG time.

I just finished a MUCH improved version of an induction lamp, co-designed with a Siemens engineer.

Higher outputs than T8, less output versus a T5, given equal power consumption.

Just isn't going to happen until the things I specified are possible - waveguides in the glass tube, better diamagnetic materials to keep the EM contained within the area of the bulb.

Have a picture of my new induction lamp - good for veg, garbage for flowering.

[jscruggs420]

I have 4 , 300 watt induction lights, they work great for clones and veggen. I have pics posted and can post more :)

[khyberkitsune]

I have 4 , 300 watt induction lights, they work great for clones and veggen. I have pics posted and can post more :)

Yep, they're fine for cloning and vegging. They lack the photon flux density to work out well for fruiting and flowering. I was testing a 200w induction lamp, and the PPFD meter I use never topped out, even right against the glass.

[begunok]

Hello Everyone
I got some nice pictures of pepper growing under bispectrum induction lights. Lamps are great, even 50 Watters. Want to tell -it is wrong that 200W bispectrum can't give 2000 umols-s-m. It gives me 2000 umols-s-m in 10 cm from the bulb.

Compare to CFL
I have picture of plant, one part of it grows under cfl and other part under bi-colour. It is way different. Size, fruits and flowers you will see only under bisectrum light. Even PAR are exactly the same.

About preferences -2700/6500K versus bispectrum.
For me still unclear how come people tell us, that 2700K is better then bispectrum in flouring. If you look at emission specter for 2700K - you will not see anything after 650nm. Bispectrum has peak after 650nm. That is just unclear for me, I'm not telling this is wrong.

[vanduction]

great post. Looks like induction is just not quite there yet
To be fair this lamp did produce better grams per watt! I suspect it could outproduce HPS if the system was better designed!

Bubbas says his shades can make a huge difference in induction lamp performance, unfortunately he didn't give me a unit to test so we didn't get the chance to find out!

[vanduction]

We have been fixing the bugs that clients have been feedbacking over the last 2 years and we have come out with a new version of the mland induction light and we are developing a 500w and 600w. The recent feedbacks have been satisfying and i am really proud of our new light however i need a journal to proove this. I can't test the lights in our factory based in Shanghai as the growth of cannabis is penilized with decapitation...not worth it.

Anyways i am willing to give a discount to any grower that is willing to provide me with a journal comparing the new induction lights! I see a lot of experienced growers with the necessary tools to pull this off
When you have a production-model 150w/200w/250w/300w, let's talk!

[donglai]

I wonder if you guys are using the phosphor blend I sent to you last year? I assume you've been having good results with that if you're coming out with a new model?

Hi there,

Well firstly we have 50w/200w/300w/400w models atm. Secondly the phosphor blend you are talking about was the bug from our first version of our mland induction lamp in 2009, last year was 2010. We are planning to develop a new 500w one due to the good feedbacks we've been having and clients asking for a higher walttage induction grow light.

[khyberkitsune]

Hi there,

Well firstly we have 50w/200w/300w/400w models atm. Secondly the phosphor blend you are talking about was the bug from our first version of our mland induction lamp in 2009, last year was 2010. We are planning to develop a new 500w one due to the good feedbacks we've been having and clients asking for a higher walttage induction grow light.

The phosphor blend I'm talking about wasn't even made in my laboratory until October 2010, so that wouldn't have been my formula in use back in 2009.

[donglai]

The phosphor blend I'm talking about wasn't even made in my laboratory until October 2010, so that wouldn't have been my formula in use back in 2009.

Well are you sure you got it from us directly? If you could send me a PM with ur details i might be able to track your order and even replace your lamp for free. As i recall, by last year October 2010 we already had the new version which didnt have the phospor blend bug that made the light spectrum not reach the advertised spectrum distribution. I am saying this because some lights bought from ebay or our north american distributors are old stock from them that couldnt be sold.
Anyways the point is that the phospor blend bug has been removed and even our waterproof housing fixture is being removed from the 400w series due to the concerns that the Kelving temperature reached after a long period of activity of the lighting system.

[khyberkitsune]

Well are you sure you got it from us directly? If you could send me a PM with ur details i might be able to track your order and even replace your lamp for free. As i recall, by last year October 2010 we already had the new version which didnt have the phospor blend bug that made the light spectrum not reach the advertised spectrum distribution. I am saying this because some lights bought from ebay or our north american distributors are old stock from them that couldnt be sold.
Anyways the point is that the phospor blend bug has been removed and even our waterproof housing fixture is being removed from the 400w series due to the concerns that the Kelving temperature reached after a long period of activity of the lighting system.

You should stick with the IP67 specification. One of the good uses for the induction lamp was for keeping outdoor sports fields green. What I would suggest doing is making a new heat sink on the top of the unit and directly affixing the unit to that.

I never purchased any lamps from your company, I sent off an e-mail to the company with a new phosphor blend that I was giving out for free because I wanted to see induction lighting gain a better edge versus fluorescents.

I have to say, however, that the lights still lack overall in photon flux emissions. If only you could make those tubes of a smaller diameter, and perhaps increase the tube pressure or harvest the mercury emission lines better. Maybe redo the entire tube and use aluminosilicate instead of borosilicate glass?

[donglai]

You should stick with the IP67 specification. One of the good uses for the induction lamp was for keeping outdoor sports fields green. What I would suggest doing is making a new heat sink on the top of the unit and directly affixing the unit to that.

I never purchased any lamps from your company, I sent off an e-mail to the company with a new phosphor blend that I was giving out for free because I wanted to see induction lighting gain a better edge versus fluorescents.

I have to say, however, that the lights still lack overall in photon flux emissions. If only you could make those tubes of a smaller diameter, and perhaps increase the tube pressure or harvest the mercury emission lines better. Maybe redo the entire tube and use aluminosilicate instead of borosilicate glass?

Wow i must say i am impressed with how much you know about lighting systems i need someone like you to work with me xD. Anyways im taking notes of the suggestions ure making but i must ask the engineers on this matter as i am a noob in technicalities and thats why i came to this forum, to learn and expand my knowledge so that i can use it to improve our services but i must say that the feedbacks from experienced growers until now, has been quite pleassing and no complains have been made on our new version, however there´s always space for improvement and reaching the full potential of this technology is my ultimate aim.

[donglai]

Well i did some research of my own on the glass materials "Aluminosilicate glass has aluminum oxide in its composition. It is similar to borosilicate glass but it has greater chemical durability and can withstand higher operating temperatures. Compared to borosilicate, aluminosilicates are more difficult to fabricate. When coated with an electrically conductive film, aluminosilicate glass is used as resistors for electronic circuitry" Why and how that is worse than the borosilicate glass and its effects on the photon flux emissions? xD i need some insight on this.

I tried to PM you but i couldnt as i am quite new to this forum..i also added you on msn to further discuss your suggestions as i am working with a manufacturer of induction lights and LED lilghts and we can customized the lamps to the smallest detail so before i suggest to do some changes to the R+D dep i need some proof that this is what the customers are needing and what is best for the product itself as not only photon flux emissions count but durability of the materials are needed to be accounted too as one of the key advantages of induction lighting is the long lifespan they have.
Concerning the new housing fixtures we basically replaced the IP67 housing lighting fixture because we thought who will need a waterproof housing if it's mainly going to be used indoor..for outdoor purposes we have induction spotlights,street lights, etc and plus due to the glass housing fixture the kelvin temperatures rise by 25% in the long run and this has been one of our client's concerns so that's why we planning to changing it and i believe this would have an impact on the PAR values but i am not sure as i need someone to come up with a journal so i can get those values as i cant do the experiments myself in China due to the high risks involved..but hopefully once i am back in Spain or the UK i will try them out in my own growop and post them here xD.

[donglai]

Dude ur knowledge on material and lighting systems is limitless if by any chance ur jobless (which i doubt it) come to China there´s a high demand for ppl like u and a good business opportunity if u decide to work with us xD. Anyways, i added u on msn i we will be in contact and thanks to the forum for giving me this opportunity.

Also i am meeting next month with the R+D department and i will suggest all these points u mentioned. They should be really usefull specially in the development of the 500W and 600W induction that they are working at atm. So we will talk via msn and obviously your advices wont be rewardless xD. No more talking through forums as i already found my purpose here; you!

Peace

[donglai]

Hey man i tried to contact you without any success...the ecogroled account it has to have a domain ending either hotmail.com or something cause i cant seem to find u xd. Anyways i am meeting the technicians at the factory next week and i will comment them your advices and give u some feedback on it. Please contact me somehow i will greatly appreciated.

I will be one more week in Shanghai before going back to Spain were we are planning to open up a distribution network over there to supply Europe. Anyways i hope i hear from you soon!

[TempeToker]

So whats the verdict on these? Have they been updated and where to buy?

[helvete]

I see that Mland is still "selling" lamps. Now under a new affiliation. Don´t trust donglai for one second about getting light-fixtures for reduced prices. They sure have sold some working lamps to build trust but the vast majority of deals are scams.

These guys at Mland are crooks. I ordered and paid for a lamp at Mland and received a box of junk (no lamp at all). Mland company stressed the fact that FedEx had mixed up the parcels so I reported it as a delivery failure.

To my big surprise FedEx took responsibility for the faulty goods(!) and agreed to pay out for worth of lamp and cost of shipping, though not to me but to Mland.

The contact between me and Benjason Zhang at Mland was consistent with swift replies until FedEx reimbursed them. I I haven't heard a word from them since.

Mland told me that FedEx will reimburse me, not them, which was untrue as FedEx gave me the name of the guy at Mland who had signed for the repayment.

I do not know how they manage to confuse FedEx, this is not just a case of frauding the customer (me) but also the freight company. In retrospect all this seems well planned.

As someone pointed out, if they ship, they ship badly boxed goods that turn up broken and in that case gets returned to them and my guess is that it won't be fixed or replaced/reimbursed.


Do not go into business with Mland or anyone claiming to have anything to do with them.

Even if you or your friend get a working lamp delivered to you (highly unlikely), they will try to pull a scam when the stakes are higher et.c.

Conclusion: Not an honest company.

[Higzy]

It's 2012 and MH/HPS is still the way to go. LEDs have not shown me anything yet, either.

[bigsby]

Yeah I have to agree. I have 2x 150w LEDs (commercial). They run just fine for vegging and at considerably lower costs/heat. However, the initial investment in LED hardware makes this an unattractive option, both for the hobby (me) and commercial grower. Sure the light may pay for itself over a few years time but most growers do not operate with this kind of amortization timeline... I do love the LEDs for my 2'x5'x3.5' cab. Temps are right and the gals love them. They veg great although they don't clone for sh1t. I use a CFL for that. But for flower? No. HPS way outperforms them. Now if you build your own using high end hardware, that's a different story.

[Deesnut's]

great for newbies.
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/attachments/dscn1416-jpg.223024/

[Andrew Hui]

great for newbies.
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/attachments/dscn1416-jpg.223024/

Are these induction lights 400W or above?

[EasyToRemember]

I saw an ad in High Times for an Induction Grow Light from a company called "inda-gro"

VERY curious about these lamps!

[junkcardog]

Am currently building a grow facility in a sea container, lighting to be led and or induction. I am very interested in a working relationship with a mfg or supplier have an immediate need 3- 10 kw of induction lighting. Please contact me.
John

[Deesnut's]

room has 3 300watt 2700K and 2 300watt 6500K bulbs
Are these induction lights 400W or above?

[lexalotacus]

How much are these and where do I get one? Thanks :thumbsup: