First time scrogger

[Horsemanrocks]

Ok scroggersâ?¦.hereâ??s what Iâ??m trying to get a little feedback on:
Iâ??ll be scrogging for the first time and would like opinions as to the height of the screen.
Between the top of the bucket to the bottom of a 250W HID is 56â?�. The reflector is a real spreaderâ?¦â?¦quite wide. Itâ??s enclosed (got glass) and a 180 cfm exhaust fan. Iâ??m going to make an assumption here: Iâ??m assuming that the light couldnâ??t ever be closer than 12â?� ( thatâ??s not exactly the part I want help withâ?¦.Iâ??ll learn that in practice). Take the 56â?� -12â?� = 44â?� In theory Iâ??ve got 44â?� of grow space. Itâ??s a recirc DWC with bubblers.
The strain is an Indica bagseedâ?¦â?¦.Thatâ??s all that I have to work with. And the variables are infiniteâ?¦..that Iâ??m already aware of.
Iâ??m simply asking for opinions on where would you start given this information. Express it in inches, ratios, rules of thumb, based on height, based on veg time, or whatever your personal approach would be in this situation.
You wonâ??t wear me out with detailâ?¦..Iâ??ve got plenty of time to read. I do appreciate the time and energy that you put into my schooling

Thanks,
Horsemanrocks.

[oldmac]

Wow Horsemanrocks,

Look at all those scroggers' jumping up to tell you how great it is to grow scrog style, with all it's advantages and such. And sharing all those hard learned lessons they went through.

At first I thought that maybe the scroggers' all got busy getting hammered on the 4th and were recovering on the 5th, were looking for where they left their computers on the 6th.....but now on the 7th, well it looks like your thread is just hanging out there like an unloved turd. Next time you want to find the scroggers, start a thread stating that scrog style growing is for fools and idiots and I'll bet you get a big responce from them.;) (Yeah I've started using emoticons, so sue me)

I'd offer you some help, but you'd probably not take my advice anyway.:D

[Horsemanrocks]

well it looks like your thread is just hanging out there like an unloved turd.

I can see that you went to the WeeZard school of compassion.
You always make me laughâ?¦â?¦.thatâ??s so good, I almost wanna use a smileyâ?¦â?¦but nope, not gonna do it.
Oh hell, Iâ??ll do alrightâ?¦â?¦I have some ideas (big ideasâ?¦..huge ideasâ?¦â?¦monstrous ideas) just looking for more input. Thereâ??s lots of info here (C.com) but specifics are always the challenge.

I'd offer you some help, but you'd probably not take my advice anyway. :D

I would cautiously take advice from a guy using â??Grinniesâ?�â?¦â?¦you know, (grain of salt) sort of thing! Some of the info that Iâ??ve seen end up a little lower in height than Iâ??d picturedâ?¦â?¦.just thinking about veg timeâ?¦..possibly a little taller grow without overrunning the space (lighting).
Iâ??m considering championing a Newbâ??s unionâ?¦â?¦this sorta thing just shouldnâ??t happen.

Union member # 000,000,001
Horsemanrocks

[crabbyback]

Wow Horsemanrocks,

Look at all those scroggers' jumping up to tell you how great it is to grow scrog style, with all it's advantages and such. And sharing all those hard learned lessons they went through.

At first I thought that maybe the scroggers' all got busy getting hammered on the 4th and were recovering on the 5th, were looking for where they left their computers on the 6th.....but now on the 7th, well it looks like your thread is just hanging out there like an unloved turd. Next time you want to find the scroggers, start a thread stating that scrog style growing is for fools and idiots and I'll bet you get a big responce from them.;) (Yeah I've started using emoticons, so sue me)

I'd offer you some help, but you'd probably not take my advice anyway.:D

Geez, give us a break. It was a holiday weekend, I'm sure we all got blasted, then had to catch up with our own stuff. We're not all superduperman like you.:S2: j/k, you know I admire you greatly.
Horse, I scrog. Boy, do I ever. I'll give you a quick rundown in another post.

Good thread. I'm here to watch and learn too.

[crabbyback]

I grow hempy bucket style. I also grow under small lights; Procyons, 150w and 250w HPS, T5s.

To be exact, I don't SCROG, because I don't use a screen. I was going to add a screen but I found I didn't really need it and I didn't want the plants to be tied down to a stationary screen. And its more like a BOG because I use top and sidelighting.

Plants bloom in 1.5 gal rectangular containers. I train using tie-downs or even twisting stems together, tucking fan leaves, exposing buds in a rectangle shape, flat top, flat sides. I try to keep them no taller than 1 ft., they want 3 ft., we settle on approx. 18 inches from top of pot at harvest. Sometimes I top, sometimes not, before training.

So far I've done this with White Widow, Masterkush, PPP and Skunk. The Masterkush loves it. I can't imagine bagseed indica is that much different, but I'm no expert..... yet. :jointsmile:

IMHO, within reason (and strain), you can make the screen whatever height you want, but the key and trick is to get the light penetration you need.

And yes, a bit longer veg time is in order otherwise yield suffers. But if you go too long, you play hell keeping her small and it affects light penetration negatively.

[Horsemanrocks]

Just re-read softmacâ??s post. Shouldnâ??t have done thatâ?¦..Itâ??s got me laughing all over again. And if it comes down to the end and I still canâ??t grow successfully, you just wonâ??t be able to take away from me the fun I had trying.
Okâ?¦.Iâ??ll try to get serious here.
Thanks for the reply Crabby. All input contributes to the end. While our styles may differ somewhatâ?¦.Iâ??m learning.
I went looking for a quote that Ms Stinky used for a whileâ?¦..canâ??t seem to find it againâ?¦â?¦so Iâ??ll mis-quote it as something like â??eventually your style matches your spaceâ?�. Being a Calif boy, and until it changes weâ??re allowed six mature plants. So after some study I decided on DWC and Scrog. My somewhat limited space seemed to lay out well for that approach.
Then of course it evolved into optimizing that style.
Hereâ??s some advice offered by Headshake on another thread:

it all depends on your enviromental factors. lighting, nutes, strain etc, etc. why not grow a plant in your setup and see what it does in those two weeks. keep in mind that it will double to triple in size during flower.

So letâ??s imagine that I set the screen at 14â?�â?¦..thatâ??s about 1/3 of the available space. Veg until I feel that I have a pretty good fill (maybe 70%) of the space below the screenâ?¦â?¦.then 12/12 from there on.
How does that grab yaâ??â?¦..If that puts your panties in a bunchâ?¦..then speak to me.

IMHO, within reason (and strain), you can make the screen whatever height you want, but the key and trick is to get the light penetration you need.

Is it foolish to think that the screen at this point has pretty much leveled the playing field, the light from here up more concentrated on the flowering portion of the grow. Isnâ??t everybody in the same boatâ?¦.raising lights in relation to the tallest point. The point of control being which lighting was chosen from the git-go.
I can do some tying down above the screenâ?¦.but not so clear as how to optimize penetration. (Yikes, I just now realized why Iâ??m old and single)

Union member # 000,000,001
Horsemanrocks


An off topic Post Script,
Many times itâ??s difficult for a Newb as we seem to be on the â??takeâ?� and not able to â??giveâ?�. I offer this up for any of you that might be veterans, of the boomer generation, and not necessarily affluent. Even though you werenâ??t a lifer, and might have served as little as 2 years, there is still a possibility of a pension offered by the Veterans Administration that you would qualify for. Check out this link Veterans Pension (http://www.vba.va.gov/bln/21/pension/vetpen.htm)
If even one of you can use this informationâ?¦â?¦Then thatâ??s my contribution.

[oldmac]

CrabbyB, I really like that concept. Train those plants to fill the space. Or is it more like plants in bondage, that's what I think of when I see some LST plants. Strings, ties, cable wraps...my friend a long time ago would tie fishing weights or empty beer cans on strings on large plants he grow out side, looked great. Later near harvest, he had sticks and 2x4s proping up these long outstretched limbs, each multi-colaed, amazing.

Your concept is the same as scrog, fill the space and get a good canopy for the light. The whole setup seems well thought out.
BTW I wasn't lookin' to be no slave driver, just thought someone had to break the ice for Horseman.

[oldmac]

:cool: So hey Horsemanrocks, I understand you started a new union, what are you Local 1 & only?

CrabbyBack has some good ideas to start you thinking about your space. A lot of knowledge there. When I have some more time, maybe later tonight I'll describe a scrog grow that I saw a few years back. It was rather primative (cheap) and worked rather well. I've got to get going, prople to see.:(

[Joefarmer]

HI yall, I'm doing my first indoor grow (LED Aerospring, check the log) and plan to ScrOG it. So I'll be tuned in here. This is a cool thread. I've been scrogging outdoors (Purps/BlueCityDiesel, another log) and I love it! Sorry Horseman to plug my own shit in your thread. But for what it's worth, my outdoor ScroG is spaced roughly 96,000,000mi from the "lamp". peace

[Horsemanrocks]

Oh, Iâ??ve got nothing against tie-downs. I have 100 cup hooks and extra long pipe cleaners for ties, set aside and awaiting their big moment.
I just found this info just this afternoon:
The ScrOG-O-Rama download is a collection of more than 130 threaded posts of questions and discussions on the ScrOG technique. See the ScrOG article for details.
Download scrogorama.zip (118k)
The zip link didn't load.....maybe this'll do it. CannaStats - Download Page (http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fourtwenty/articles/download.htm)

Here they started their flower with the canopy only 20-25% full. Much earlier than I would have imagined.
I downloaded the zip (virus checked it) and opened it. Only about 20% into itâ?¦.but lots of food for thought here. The entire site has lots of good stuff. CannaStats Home Page (http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fourtwenty/index.html)
Itâ??s time well spent for anybody looking for scrogging thought.
Local 1 & only
Horsemanrocks

[oldmac]

:wtf:I just spent a long time writing about a scrog set up and it all just got lost.

Second time tonight/this morning, it happened to me on an other thread earlier. too tired to try and rewrite and repost now, I'll try later.:(:(:(

[justanotherbozo]

here's a couple links to threads by FreezerBoy, a guy who runs a really
nice little SCROG, in DWC, inside an old freezer.

250w Freezer grow THaze x Skunk (http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=77833)

DESTROYER on Ice - 250CMH Freezer Grow (http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=99905)

and here's a couple pics to show what i mean.

if you're still lookin' for help, this guy's threads are well worth the read!

[crabbyback]

Horseman,

Even after doing my research thoroughly and planning everything out on paper, I changed things after I got started. It seems to be the nature of the learning curve.

If I didn't habitually overstuff my bloom areas, I would have room for 5 plants. Two in the smaller LED/T5 cabinet (wanna be SCROG). Three in the larger area under 250 and 150 HPS.

When I was talking about light penetration, I really wasn't thinking true SCROG but my own grow. I apologize.
The way I understand a true SCROG, with a screen, everything trained/pushed under the screen withers and dies away eventually from lack of light. At least that's what it looks like in the pictures I've seen. Maybe the true SCROG growers will chime in here.
I'm not so good at pruning the lower/interior bud sites before bloom, so I have lots of popcorn buds. I need a step by step tutorial with pics. However, the way things have evolved, it doesn't really matter whether I've got lots of popcorn or not. I don't trim or cure the popcorn -- it goes straight into canna caps. And there is always plenty of large nuggets to smoke for all. (Crabby hates manicuring with a passion)

BTW - As far as panties go, I don't wear 'em so you can't bunch 'em. :eek:

[oldmac]

Hey Crabby,

You're not the only one who hates manicuring but I found the perfect solution, get yourself an old indian side kick. It works for me, Tonto is a trimming fool and is capable of doing hippy cuts (a little shaggy) to the tightest of poodle cuts. I set him up with a tv tray in the evenings and he trims away while watching TV. I haven't trimmed a bud in abt 10 yrs.

BTW your discreption of scrog, with no vegatation between grow bucket and screen is spot on. That's what I've seen.

I'm not even going to ask about your lack of pansies.;)

[oldmac]

Hey Justanotherbozo, those are some great pics from freezerboy. I was very impressed with it when I saw it over there. Guess you sleep around on other boards too. Good to see you.

Yo Horesmanrocks, man you missed a good post, I spent a bunch of time writing and it was some good shit, but I think our beloved Canna.com boards are under cyber attack by the North Koreans! :mad: My post lost to the commies.

So, anyway a few years back I agreed to help this fellow who had set up a sizeable grow using E&F in buckets and scrog with his plant problems, they were all dying and he could not figure it out. (Hey who nows death better then me:D that was a joke son) It was the first time (really only time) I'd seen a scrog grow in person and close up. I was impressed by a couple of things.

He was using 4'x4' screens that where just wooden frames with chicken wire, he had rooms with 2- frames each and 2- 1000w HID, and under each tray he had 4-buckets with 10" net pot lids plumbed to a central resevior 55gal plastic barrel. The buckets were raised off the floor abt 1' to allow them to drain to a central sump for return to the barrel.

He would grow and veg the plants using MH and as they grew he would cut the top to make it branch more, and as it grew he would strecth branches out a put them up through the screen. He would fill the 4x4 screens like they were trays and they looked like a tray of small plants. When they reached a height of 12" or so hed swith to HPS and 12/12. The branches grew like sog plants and would finish abt 28" +/- above the screen level. Below the screen it was bare stalk and branches.

Here's the cool part, when he harvested he'd cut the branch colas abt 6" above the screen, trim any bud material left, then switch back to MH and would re-veg them! When they got to be a healthy 12" or so he'd swith back to 12/12 and HPS. He could do this 2 or 3 times before he'd start new plants.

BTW his problems centered on poor hygiene (his grow not him) and having only 1 resevior for 8 of these rooms. When 1 plant got sick they all would get sick. But running good it was a producing a metric shit load.:thumbsup:

[Joefarmer]

Good stuff oldmac. The ScroGs I've seen (pics) have all been bare stem under the screen and only several inches above the base of the plant. I guess you just have to rely on that 12/12 growth spurt. Getting mine ready, gonna have the screen 9" above the res.

[Horsemanrocks]

Yo Horesmanrocks, man you missed a good post, I spent a bunch of time writing and it was some good shit, but I think our beloved Canna.com boards are under cyber attack by the North Koreans! My post lost to the commies.

Macâ?¦.I noticed one of your posts back sometime where the pictures didnâ??t load. For me this site freezes up at 10pm to about 10:30â?¦..for you a little differentâ?¦but trying to post within this window is fruitlessâ?¦.I bet that you were already aware, just mentioning the possibility!

He was using 4'x4' screens

4� X 4���.?

When they reached a height of 12" or so hed swith to HPS and 12/12.

Can an old guy like you remember the relationship to the screen at this point?

The branches grew like sog plants and would finish abt 28" +/- above the screen level

I have two options: adjust my mindset to finish lower than my mental picture (36+�) or continue to beat this thing to death until I figure out how to finish within this mental framework���.so, which one are you betting on????
You did say â??above screen levelâ?� â?¦..Iâ??m down with that! (do I sound young, or what)

then switch back to MH and would re-veg them!

Havenâ??t spent a lot of time with re-veg, the little that sticks in my mind is that it can take some time. You know by another thread that Iâ??m already defensive about roots plugging drains becoming an issue and the loss the disease (root rot or whatever) did become an issue.
The first round for me wonâ??t be an issue, but with luck after that my pre-veg tray will set me up for a fairly rapid re-load. Gotta love the innovation though. The one thing that I always keep an eye open for is innovation.

When 1 plant got sick they all would get sick

Scroggers nightmareâ?¦â?¦..Daâ?? gamble yaâ?? take.

BTW - As far as panties go, I don't wear 'em so you can't bunch 'em.

My apologies CB, that wasnâ??t actually directed at youâ?¦.poor choice on my part.


Horsemanrocksâ?¦.and out!

[crabbyback]

Actually horseman, I was joking with you - so certainly no offense taken. I'm not easily offended (meaning I've got more b***s than a woman should have, or so mr. crabby says).

Oldmac: That was a way cool idea that you described. The SCROG sounds like the ones I've seen. That area between screen and roots reminded me of huge live oaks that grow together into continuous canopy and its very dim underneath.

Horseman: go with your own thoughts on height. Only you know your unique grow and you've made good decisions so far. :thumbsup:

[oldmac]

Yeah Horseman,

The sreens where 4'x4' frames and had chicken wire in them.
Screens were 1' above the pots.
This guy vegged for a long time tho I don't remember how long, he was contstantly cutting anf trimming to get the screen filled and even cut stuff above screen to keep it even. To get shorter growth just start your 12/12 when they are about 8" above screen should finish closer to 18-24" ( which btw is what I'd probably shoot for).

I still think it's the N.Koreans screwing up the internet.:mad:

Not sure if this ever made it thru, but I was telling someone about my memerory. Long term memeory of stuff that is trivial I can remember great like things I did on the farm when I was a kid. But it is the short term memory that's a troubleing. Like waking up and saying where the hell am I? what time is it? what day? and hey who is this in the bed with me?.......and why is she dead?:D

[crabbyback]

Like waking up and saying where the hell am I? what time is it? what day? and hey who is this in the bed with me?.......and why is she dead?:DYou run two grows, you furnish other people's meds, and then you have the energy to play around with "cold Ethel"? What strain are you smoking lately? :wtf:

[bigtopsfinn]

Just now got a chance to read through all this :D



Ok scroggersâ?¦.hereâ??s what Iâ??m trying to get a little feedback on:
Iâ??ll be scrogging for the first time and would like opinions as to the height of the screen.
Between the top of the bucket to the bottom of a 250W HID is 56â?�. The reflector is a real spreaderâ?¦â?¦quite wide. Itâ??s enclosed (got glass) and a 180 cfm exhaust fan. Iâ??m going to make an assumption here: Iâ??m assuming that the light couldnâ??t ever be closer than 12â?� ( thatâ??s not exactly the part I want help withâ?¦.Iâ??ll learn that in practice). Take the 56â?� -12â?� = 44â?� In theory Iâ??ve got 44â?� of grow space. Itâ??s a recirc DWC with bubblers.
The strain is an Indica bagseedâ?¦â?¦.Thatâ??s all that I have to work with. And the variables are infiniteâ?¦..that Iâ??m already aware of.
Iâ??m simply asking for opinions on where would you start given this information. Express it in inches, ratios, rules of thumb, based on height, based on veg time, or whatever your personal approach would be in this situation.
You wonâ??t wear me out with detailâ?¦..Iâ??ve got plenty of time to read. I do appreciate the time and energy that you put into my schooling

Thanks,
Horsemanrocks.

I had a chance to grow one of my TW's before I tried scrog, so I had some kind of an idea about the stretch. I vegged to fill the screen 70%. Didn't really care about the height, because first I LST'd and then just set my chicken wire on top of the plants, and tied the screen to my plants' containers (that way the screen stayed around the same height from then on).

I think making your growroom as flexible as possible is the best approach... especially adjusting the height of your light. You could also cut individual screens for each plant, that way you can always turn them, and take them out individually if you have to, etc.

Second link in my sig has my Scrog grow, and I explained it a little better in there. This is where I got a lot of my ideas: http://boards.cannabis.com/closet-cabinet-growing/52326-lovely-ladies.html

Good luck :jointsmile:

[oldmac]

Hey bigtopsfinn,

Been awhile since I've seen you around old friend. Have you been busy moving, hope all is going well for you. Good post too, Horsesass I mean Horsemanrocks needs all the help he can get, but he seems to be trying to get it right before major commitments. Id like to be able to keep him out of the "plant problems" section later.

Great advice as to keeping it fexible.:thumbsup:

[oldmac]

You run two grows, you furnish other people's meds, and then you have the energy to play around with "cold Ethel"? What strain are you smoking lately? :wtf:

Was that her name? I hope she wasn't a friend of yours.:(

Actually, last night we did some autoAK47 (a couple of small buds fell off) so we vaped them, the only way to check out fresh stuff for taste and potency.

[bigtopsfinn]

Nice to see you around still. Been on vacation (pic is from night fishing in Northern Finland around 2 a.m.) ... now packing for Amsterdam... actually the wife is, I'm mostly enjoying the final spoils of my scrog grow :jointsmile:

[Horsemanrocks]

The sreens where 4'x4' frames and had chicken wire in them.
Screens were 1' above the pots.
This guy vegged for a long time tho I don't remember how long, he was contstantly cutting anf trimming to get the screen filled and even cut stuff above screen to keep it even. To get shorter growth just start your 12/12 when they are about 8" above screen should finish closer to 18-24" ( which btw is what I'd probably shoot for).

Mac
Thanks for the numbers, they somehow help in creating a mental picture.

Id like to be able to keep him out of the "plant problems" section later.

What do you suppose the chances of that are?. Iâ??ll be there with big olâ?? alligator tearsâ?¦..saying please, please help me, babies are dying!

BigTopps
I had a chance to grow one of my TW's before I tried scrog, so I had some kind of an idea about the stretch. I vegged to fill the screen 70%. Didn't really care about the height, because first I LST'd and then just set my chicken wire on top of the plants, and tied the screen to my plants' containers (that way the screen stayed around the same height from then on).

Good specific stuffâ?¦.very helpful.

Your lovely ladies linkâ?¦â?¦thatâ??s the kind of thing that really helps breakdown images. Very nicely done.

I think making your growroom as flexible as possible is the best approach... especially adjusting the height of your light. You could also cut individual screens for each plant, that way you can always turn them, and take them out individually if you have to, etc.

Lighting totally flexible:

[attachment=o222590]

Buckets: No flexibility here:

[attachment=o222591]

My Brain: Even less flexibility here

[attachment=o222592]

How I got that picture is off topic, but a fun story. The off topic cops havenâ??t reprimanded us yet, so Iâ??ll indulge myself.
In the 60â??s I used to hang out at a ranch in the mountains. I always had a lot of fun there. There were always very interesting characters there, some in saffron robes, one in particular who always wore a really cool white robe, bald headed chanters, an Indian medicine man, musicians by the score, lots of beautiful young women who almost invariably were carrying trays laden with browniesâ?¦â?¦so what wasnâ??t to like.
So one hot summer day, we were passing around what we called â??blue hootersâ?�, the guy who owned the place (if I remember his name was Leary) asked if anybody wanted some Kool-aid. It was hot and dryâ?¦.I thought to myself kool-aid was possibly a little juvenile but anything cold and wet would be goodâ?¦.so yeah â??Iâ??m inâ?�. The kool-aid wasnâ??t exactly like any that Iâ??d had before, but goodâ?¦..not too sweet with a little bit of an acid overtone. It did the job on the cottonmouthâ?¦ almost, I had a second Kool-aid and Viola, cottonmouth under control.
The guy in the white robe was quite thirsty tooâ?¦.he drank kool-aid all day long and laughed a lot. He and Leary were always making up names for each other (I think of these two when I refer to oldmac as softmac). Leary called him Dr. Dick or Baba Rum Dumb and theyâ??d laugh and laugh. It was so infectious that you just couldnâ??t help but laugh with them. Baba Rum Dumb referred to Leary as Padre or Father Timothyâ?¦.more laughing as this guy was no priest.
Okâ?¦back to how I got the picture of my brain.
A little later the bald headed chanters began to get their groove on and as time went by everybody began to join in. It was somehow strangely compellingâ?¦.I joined in too. Iâ??m pretty sure I didnâ??t get the words exactly right, but the chant was pretty repetitive and fairly easy to pick up. After some timeâ?¦.not exactly sure how longâ?¦.it occurred to me that: not only could I, but somehow I needed to take a snapshot of my brain.
Sitting next to me in the chanting circle was the Shaman. At that moment he leaned over to me and said â??I hear youâ?� (I hadnâ??t said anything aloud). He reached into his pocket and pulled out three things. A pouch full of herb, tobacco, and a pipe. He told me to take the herb. I tried to, but it was very dry and quite bitter, I had to wash it down with more kool-aid. He then loaded up his pipe and lit it. At that instant his chant changed. A totally different language at a completely different tempo that, for reasons that I canâ??t explain, was in perfect harmony with the first chant still in progress.
Every hair on my body was standing straight up on end. As I looked around the circle, everybodyâ??s hair was on end. In the 60â??s that was a lot of hair. (not sure about those bald guys though). On the ground in front of me was a gopher hole. The Shaman instructed me to dive into that hole and go to â??the centerâ?�. I immediately dove into the hole and accelerated faster, and faster, and still faster. Going deeper, deeper, always deeper. At one point I noticed that the Shaman was right there with me, going ever faster still.
The following morning I woke up at home, in my own bed with no idea what happened between these two points. How I even got homeâ?¦.a total mystery.
I spent the next week at the carwash, washing windows, making a living. Come the weekend I thought that I might run over to the ranch to see what was going on. I grabbed a bag of walnuts (theyâ??re perfect with the brownies) another bag of some weed that we called â??purple moronâ?� (after a couple of hits we just called it â??Muhâ?�) and threw on my Mexican wedding shirtâ?¦..the same shirt that I had worn the week previous. I tried to stuff the walnuts into the shirt pocket, but they just wouldnâ??t go. There already was something in the pocket. I reached into my pocket and removed a Polaroid pictureâ?¦â?¦â?¦.. of my brainâ?¦.Uh, uh uhâ?¦Your guess is as good as mine.

Horsemanrocksout��waayyy out!

[oldmac]

Very nice looking pictures (this time). The light set-up looks good and I really can't wait to see how the hybred mix of HPS and LED does. I really think they should compliment each other.

Your buckets also looking pretty good. I think I'm getting more anxious to see this thing get going then you.:)

The third picture presents a few problems and even more issues. Doen't look like it's a numbers matching one, maybe a rebuild or just a swapped out one from the junkyard. You sure the shaman or someone didn't steal yours?:D


Hey Bigtops,

Great picture, makes me want to visit Finland and even take up fishing.
The 2am sun light reminds me of Fairbanks, Alaska in the summer.

[justanotherbozo]

Hey Justanotherbozo, those are some great pics from freezerboy. I was very impressed with it when I saw it over there. Guess you sleep around on other boards too. Good to see you.



thanks man, good to see you too, and still helpin' the noob's, lol.

anyway, i'm glad you liked FreezerBoy's work, and i've been impressed
with his grows for some time now, he really knows his stuff, and not
just how to SGROG, he's a cultivator for real!

and yeah, i bounce around, ...i don't really come to learn anymore, now
i stop in, look to see if there is anyone i can help and if not, i bounce, lol.

[Horsemanrocks]

Subtitle: My brain on drugs!


I know Horse you were worried about my health, but after just reading your story of finding a poloroid pic in your pocket...well son I very worried and concerned about your mental health. LOL
Iâ??ll start this off with another story.
At one point Ghandi was leading a march. The march was set to take two days. After the first day Ghandi announced to his devotees that he would not be participating in the second days march. He explained that in his mind, things had changed and that he no longer believed in the purpose of the march.
His dedication was to truth, more than his need for consistency.
He had at this point abandoned any attachment to what anybody elseâ??s opinion of him might be or what others needed him to be. He was simply doing what he needed to do.

At some point in my life (through the wisdom of one of the storyâ??s characters Ram Dass) it became clear to me that one of the prisons that I had built for myself was the concern of what other people thought of me.
The day that I â??stepped over the edgeâ?� was the day that I too abandoned the concern (fear) of how I was perceived. It was the gift of freedom. One of the greatest gifts that anybody could ever bestow upon themselves.

To a younger guy, telling an off the wall story like that would have been fearful. Oh my godâ?¦.how will I be perceivedâ?¦..theyâ??ll probably think Iâ??m a nut job and avoid me.
I told that story simply for my own entertainment (and possibly for the entertainment of those that had recently enjoyed their â??productâ?�) I had a great time telling it and if anybody else enjoyed it even half as much as I enjoyed telling it, then we both win.

The really fun partâ?¦..a portion of that story is trueâ?¦..Iâ??ll let the rest of you guess which part.

Just a 60â??s kind of guy,
Horsemanrocks

[oldmac]

Hey, seen the lights, seen the buckets, now what are you waiting for?

I want to see some green stuff starting to grow, the sooner you start the sooner the plants will finish.:stoned:

[Horsemanrocks]

I want to see some green stuff starting to grow, the sooner you start the sooner the plants will finish.
Waiting on me is going to be a disappointment.
The first seedlings, actually plants at that pointâ?¦.I gave away (think Guerilla)
The secondâ?¦I got called away. Unfortunately my backup was unavailable also.
The third lost to a poor choice on my partâ?¦..(different potting mix) the ingredients said calcium. A newbs mistake, calcium nitrate isnâ??t just harmless calciumâ?¦.they grew well for a week, then stalled for another, then began to lose that dark green color, leaves began to turn down (ramâ??s horns). Multiple flushes didnâ??t help at all.
I read Ms Stinkyâ??s tutorial on starting in quite small pots and repotting up and up. But damn do they dry fastâ?¦..too much attention needed. Itâ??s getting hot now. I have some in potting mix, and some in an oasis cube in potting mix (in 2â?� pots) to see if that helps outâ?¦..so far it seems to help a little, but may become a problem laterâ?¦.who knows?
Iâ??m still trying to work out the small pot idea. If I have to begin again (just realized, no reason to wait) Iâ??ll start a seed in a peat pot inside a 4â?� pot. I may be able to create a tighter root ball (the way Ms Stinky suggests) without the need to constantly monitor against drying out. I had some winter squash this spring that struggled to break through their peat pots.
Iâ??m a bit of a fatalist in that thereâ??s a reason for whatever, and on the other hand a little disappointed not to be moving along faster. Although I never even considered getting away (heat wise) with much this summer.

All that issue asideâ?¦.Itâ??s becoming obvious to me that unless I make some additionsâ?¦.like A/C and a chiller, that the chances of growing in the heat of the summer are getting slimmer all the time. The A/C wouldnâ??t be so out of place, but a chiller might be a bit of a â??tellâ?�. At this point I have months to figure out how to disguise a chiller.
Other options might be dropping the HID and going smaller with just the UFOâ??s, 180W combined (in two buckets).
Budmac, Iâ??ve tried to imagine how much wattage (heat) that I might be able to cut by dropping the HID next summer and using your style (flouro & led). Presently Iâ??m at 430 watts of heat. Iâ??m open to suggestion. Youâ??ve seen the rectangle (5â??X2.5â??) How much heat could I cut with T-5â??s, if much at all? (By the way, nice choice on the new avatar. It makes you look so much younger).
CB, it appears that a signature revision is in order.
Weeze, if you happen to stumble across this (and I do mean stumble). In another thread you suggested a higher heat threshold than is commonly used, but didnâ??t elaborate much. That and any tricks as to how to get away with higher heat would feed my decaying gray matter. Donâ??t worry, Iâ??d print it out.

The good news is that the outdoor SOG is doing quite well.
I got these seeds from the good folks over at Cheatumseeds.comâ?¦they were a bit pricey, but so far the veg has been impressive. The strain is Nearly Girl.

[attachment=o223121]

Classic sativaâ??s as theyâ??re taking their time to flower. No trichs yet. Canâ??t wait for October.

Halfbrainrocks.

[oldmac]

Indoor heat issues are a bitch. We had to drop 1 1000w HPS weeks ago and I think if we ever get real summer weather here where I am, the 2nd HPS will have to go.

T5s are alot like the LEDs, what heat they create is just the heat of making light, no secondary radiant heat like an HPS. Unlike LEDs tho the heat they create is generally below the light not above. BTW as a side note, I am not really happy with the results of the T5/LED hybred. Just not getting the amount of light mixing I had hoped for, it's pure LED in middle, pure T5 on outer rows and just some mixing inbetween.

I have been very impressed with the auto flower AK47s we are growing, nice size plants, excellent smoke (well only vaped ATT) and I'm thinking they are perfect for a small closet grow for the hobbyist. Something to consider. BTW just put a couple of pics up on my thread of the first one to be harvested.

[crabbyback]

Hi Horseman,
I also have heat issues in the summer. I've decided to use only my LEDs in summer and just one T5 on another table for mothers, seedlings, vegging.

My experience has been that a 4x48" T5 with my LEDs, in a grow cabinet still puts me into the danger zone (mid to high 80s). So, I'm not using it until I get past that major stretch in flower, probably for the last 4 weeks before harvest.

I refuse to A/C the grow area and a chiller won't work for me, so I'll probably end up a winter grower only. However, Rusty has a great thread on dealing with heat. Check it out.

Luck and keep cool,

[Horsemanrocks]

Thanks cb,
Temp control is a little easier now as overnight temps have backed off some. Heat (being cumulative) is hard to control when thereâ??s no ability to refresh overnight. I over-reacted a little by over watering a little. The Rusty link was goodâ?¦.made me feel a little more at ease about higher temps.
Iâ??ll be seasonal too, as my needs donâ??t overshadow the ability to produce.
Chiller, A/C, decisions for another time. If experience doesnâ??t teach meâ?¦.Iâ??ll ask.

Mac's right,
Willierocks.

[Horsemanrocks]

Tie points��..check
Screen in���check
Tiedowns��...at hand
Decisions madeâ?¦â?¦Letâ??s just hope that theyâ??re for the right reasons.
I thank all for the inputâ?¦â?¦at some point â??yous pays your money, and yous takes your chances!
Screen to bucket 12â?�â?¦â?¦.gottaâ?? admit, workability in a 30â?� deep cabinet played a large part in the decision. My lower back spoke loudest. If I see the opportunity to raise it in the futureâ?¦..itâ??s gonna happen!

[attachment=o224162]

The only thing left is timing the veg perfectly��.how hard could that be��

For cb,
Testosteronerocks.

[Weezard]

Aloha, Stoned Pony,;)

"Weeze, if you happen to stumble across this (and I do mean stumble). In another thread you suggested a higher heat threshold than is commonly used, but didnâ??t elaborate much. That and any tricks as to how to get away with higher heat would feed my decaying gray matter. Donâ??t worry, Iâ??d print it out."

Actually, that's what extra CO2 is for.
Up roun' 90+ degrees F. Hemp will grow at an accelerated rate if it has extra CO2.
Seems that normal levels are not enough at these temps and most strains will cease growth without some extra "carbonic fo' da chronic."

Fun thread, don't know how I missed it.

Cheerio,;)
Weeze

[LOC NAR on probation]

I don't know if they will stumble but I can.

If you have a sealed room and the proper CO2 equipment, valves and timers.
Yes you can run higher temps with high levels of CO2. Finish your grow, bigger and a week or so early.

The trick here in hydro is to keep the water and rez cool. Many ways to do that. Chiller for rez or keeping the rez in A/C in another room and keeping water circulating. The rez must stay cool or root rot.

[Weezard]

"The rez must stay cool or root rot."

I hear that a lot!

Aloha Loc Nar:)

Have to disagree though.

Been extremely lucky I guess.
Got no rot at 85 -90 F. in my rez.
[attachment=o224676]
I attribute that to aggressive aeration and tap water with chloromine.

Of course, tomorrow, it could go tits-up on me.:D

ciao

Weezard

[LOC NAR on probation]

Aloha, Weezard.

The proof is in the pudding. Wish I had that mix. If mine gets to 78 degrees it's rot city. Using R/O water and calmag.

Let's not have any of that tits up talk. It's working don't change anything.

[Weezard]

Aloha, Weezard.

The proof is in the pudding. Wish I had that mix. If mine gets to 78 degrees it's rot city. Using R/O water and calmag.

Let's not have any of that tits up talk. It's working don't change anything.

Try tap water.
Or add a tsp. of bleach per 5 gallons of R.O..

I had a black fungus coat my wicks when I used distilled water, and rain water.
Went to tap water, and now can do an entire veg .without changing out the rez bucket.
I lift the root ball and lower it into a bucket of bloom nutes when we go into flower.
My lanai can hit 90 F. in the summer but that rez water lasts until chop time.
I just adjust the PH and nutes on the fly until harvest.

Disclaimer:

Not really suggesting anyone else push their luck this way though.
Their milage can, and probably will, vary.:D

Aloha,
Weeze

[Horsemanrocks]

Thanks guysâ?¦â?¦there is a lot of â??absoluteâ?� knowledge around hereâ?¦..until it isnâ??t.
I did install this, due to a suggestion on another thread that I eliminate chlorine.

[attachment=o224768]

I havenâ??t taken the time to clarify if the local water is conditioned w/ chlorine or chloramines.

Or add a tsp. of bleach per 5 gallons of R.O..

I would image that youâ??re using the two interchangeably (chlorine and chloramines)â?¦..SÃ* o no. I do get my 30gals quicker if I donâ??t use the filterâ?¦.and the bleach would be chlorine.

As far as CO2â?¦..still holding outâ?¦..maybe too much for a never has been. Life is longâ?¦.when the time is right!

root rot.

Ever since I went on social on Social Security��kinda been afraid to look!

Enquiring minds want to know,
Horsemanrocksâ?¦..out.

[Weezard]

Thanks guysâ?¦â?¦there is a lot of â??absoluteâ?� knowledge around hereâ?¦..until it isnâ??t.
I did install this, due to a suggestion on another thread that I eliminate chlorine.

Profit oriented folks that sell RO filters, say crap like that all the time.
That does not make it fact.

Chlorine is an element essential to all living things.

It's only too much Chlorine, (or anything for that matter), that is harmful.
Also, Cannabis seems to have no problem with Chlorine, Sodiun Hypochlorite (bleach), Chloramine, or it's breakdown products (Haloacetic acid , etc.).

But slime molds, cryptobacters, giardiasis, coliforms, general nasties and single- celled shit-storm seeds, do.
Stops 'em dead.

Evaporation/aeration will lower Chlorine concentration, (though it isn't really necessary), and ammonia/organic crud/ Ascorbic acid, (Vitamin C), will lower Chloramine concentration. Again a waste of time and effort.


[attachment=o224768]

I havenâ??t taken the time to clarify if the local water is conditioned w/ chlorine or chloramines.

Does not really matter, my friend.

Well, I take that back.
Total lack of either is not advised.

Did a test a while back.
Put two cuttings in rainwater and two in tap water.
The rainwater kept trying to grow algae and just sucked the life out of the cuttings.
They shrank in size and did not root.
Might say, it sapped it's strength.:D
Makes sense, distilled water will suck all the goodness out of a plant by osmosis.
The tap water cuts rooted well, and had no schmutz coating the cups.
A week after that, I cleaned the rainwater cups and refilled with tap water.
They rooted in 2 more days, but were too retarded to grow very well.

Seems the chloramine protects plants the same way it protects people.
So,

Or add a tsp. of bleach per 5 gallons of R.O..

I would image that youâ??re using the two interchangeably (chlorine and chloramines)â?¦..SÃ* o no. I do get my 30gals quicker if I donâ??t use the filterâ?¦.and the bleach would be chlorine.

Well, bleach is a hypochlorite salt, but it releases Chlorine ions so, same difference, yah?

As far as CO2â?¦..still holding outâ?¦..maybe too much for a never has been. Life is longâ?¦.when the time is right!

Won't do much at ordinary temperatures anyway

root rot.

Ever since I went on social on Social Security��kinda been afraid to look!

Iffn ya wait long enough your nose will tell ya.:D

Enquiring minds want to know,
Horsemanrocksâ?¦..out.

Consider yerself schooled, homeslice. - Stinky Attic:)

Enquiring minds, our specialty.
Got a three for one sale, this week only.;)

Howzit HMR?

Weeze

[Joefarmer]

Yo, we talkin' bout' scrog or chlorine here?! JK

Here's a few pics of my LED scrog grow. Just installed the screen and they're on day 10 of flower. They're random bagseeds so the height is all over the place, may have to eliminate the weak ones that haven't even reached the screen yet. Luckily I don't have much of a height restriction.

[Weezard]

Lookin' good ! J. the F.:cool:


Weeze

[Horsemanrocks]

Yo, we talkin' bout' scrog or chlorine here?! JK

We just go whichever way the wind blows us.

If I remember correctlyâ?¦.the last time you posted hereâ?¦..I followed your grow and your screen was @ 14â?�. Would you change the height for any reason?
I donâ??t remember the LEDâ??sâ?¦..but then I donâ??t remember what I had for lunch either. So if youâ??re so inclined bring me up to (or back to) speed.
I see that you do a lot of manicuring under the screenâ?¦..lookinâ?? like you donâ??t buy the â??too much stressâ?� theory.
Nice picâ??sâ?¦.thanks for sharing.

Horsemanrocks.

[Weezard]

Um, what was the question?

Weeze.

[Horsemanrocks]

Um, what was the question?

While itâ??s painfully obvious that I have no reservation as to being a foolâ?¦..I always imagined that you had more dignity than that.

Illusions shattered,
Horsemanrocks.

[Weezard]

It would appear that your imagination is unsupported by fact.

Dignity?
Brah, we don't even wear pants

Da Humble, un-dignified, Zard

[dejayou30]

Horseman, nice thread. I find myself in the same scrog newb boat. I just put one of my Master Kush clones into the screen today. I am a bit worried about the branches, as they are all bent and bruised from being forced back and forth through the screen and the leaves are all limp and sad looking. After Googling around, I think they should recover since they didn't break or anything.

As far as height, my screen is 2.5' off the ground and 2.5' from my 1KW light. I have a really small vertical space, but in the past I have been as close as 10 inches to the light and not had any ill effects. In retrospect I probably would have been alright a 2', but I wanted a lot of clearance between screen and bucket for some stupid reason. I am just using 300W equivalent CFL's to veg right now because my HID gets too hot in my small room and heats up my water.

Weezard, you have some pretty amazing roots with 90 degree water. Mine is about 77 and its starting to rot a bit, despite the 38W of air pumping through the bucket. :wtf: But the plant above the bucket looks great, and there's no slime on the roots, just some brown color and they don't look happy but they don't look that bad either. Hoping I can limp them along till fall. What the hell do you use for aeration to not get rot in that hot of water?

I posted a thread about my scrog in the advanced techniques forum with some questions that no one answered, and those are: 1) How big do I let the tips get before forcing them back through? and 2) (Which I think I answered myself in the affirmative) Is it OK that the stems are all brown and bruised at the bend site or should I unweave them out of the screen and straighten them out?

I am pretty excited to flower this plant in the ScROG in a couple months after it has filled up the screen. So far, its got half of a 4'x3' screen filled with two months before I can flower because of heat issues. Good thread, and I'm sure I'll be back! :thumbsup:

[Weezard]

"Weezard, you have some pretty amazing roots with 90 degree water. Mine is about 77 and its starting to rot a bit, despite the 38W of air pumping through the bucket. :wtf: But the plant above the bucket looks great, and there's no slime on the roots, just some brown color and they don't look happy but they don't look that bad either. Hoping I can limp them along till fall. What the hell do you use for aeration to not get rot in that hot of water?"



Aloha, Deja

Mahalo!

The airpump is just a standard WallyWorld aquarium pump with a cheap generic airstone.

I attribute my luck to our Hawaiian tap water.

It's from wells, but is stored in tanks aboveground.
If the water company didn't treat the water, with something, it would play host to all sorts of nasties in those tanks.

All this "leave the water sit for 24 hours to let the Chlorine evaporate" nonsense is in reality, counter-productive.
If any water company still uses Chlorine gas, it does not harm the plants, and, in hydro, will give a few days protection from slime molds.

Most water companies actually use Chloramine currently, which is a compound that will not "evaporate" when allowed to sit in clean water.

This is a good thing. :thumbsup:
The Chloramine kills mold and all manner of unwelcome micro-organisms before they can rot yer root.:(

The other "secret" is what I leave out.
All that goes in my bucket or coco is hydro bloom nutes and tap water.
Specifically DynaBloom, and a little CalMag.

Remember, some nutes will cause root browning.
It's just a stain.
If it's not slimy, and does not smell, it's prolly not a duck.:D

Too many folks shoot up their own feet by tryin' all that high-priced snake oil on the hydro store shelves, or adding Moleasses to hydro or "Superjive", or "Tiger-go-boom", ad nauseum!
Feh!
I'm with Thoreaux on this; "Simplify".:cool:

Crap!
Dat's 'bout 7 cents.
Ya only asked for 2.

:jointsmile:"It's da nature of da meds". - St. Zard the pontificate.:D

('umble, ain't he?)
Wee, itty, Zard






-

[Horsemanrocks]

Chain reactionâ?¦..you double up on medsâ?¦..post this

Brah, we don't even wear pants

Then I have to double up to even sleep at nightâ?¦.sheesh!

Deja,

As far as height, my screen is 2.5' off the ground and 2.5' from my 1KW light. I have a really small vertical space, but in the past I have been as close as 10 inches to the light and not had any ill effects. In retrospect I probably would have been alright a 2', but I wanted a lot of clearance between screen and bucket for some stupid reason. I am just using 300W equivalent CFL's to veg right now because my HID gets too hot in my small room and heats up my water.

This ought to be exciting. Super long vegâ?¦.1000Wâ?¦.limited vertical space. Tell me itâ??s not Sativa dominant. Do not hesitate to keep us up to dateâ?¦.in fact pictures of where you are today would feed a good mental picture.

Is it OK that the stems are all brown and bruised at the bend site or should I unweave them out of the screen and straighten them out?

I saw a good youtube video on messaging the stems (of sorts) to increase flexibility. If itâ??s of interest Iâ??ll be glad to link it here.

two months before I can flower because of heat issues.

Me too, Iâ??m mostly just hanging out waiting for fall. I hope to begin vegging clones in about 3 weeksâ?¦..at least thatâ??s what it feels like today.
I come from a construction background. In construction the guy thatâ??s solved his problems before they become problems sleeps better at night. Weeze, oldmac, crabby and others have been quite patient waiting on a guy who isnâ??t visibly moving forward. I have a million questions and zero experience. But who the hell knowsâ?¦..I may just get â??luckyâ?� and be successful the first time.

---------------or--------------

In October you find me with multiple threads in the â??plant problemâ?� section. (I hear from my bookie in Vegas that oldmac already has a grand riding on itâ?¦â?¦wouldnâ??t want to let a friend down)
But rememberâ?¦..when you see me in â??plant problemsâ?�â?¦â?¦.be gentle, itâ??s my first time.

Horsemanrocks.

[Joefarmer]

Yo, we talkin' bout' scrog or chlorine here?! JK

We just go whichever way the wind blows us.

If I remember correctlyâ?¦.the last time you posted hereâ?¦..I followed your grow and your screen was @ 14â?�. Would you change the height for any reason?
I donâ??t remember the LEDâ??sâ?¦..but then I donâ??t remember what I had for lunch either. So if youâ??re so inclined bring me up to (or back to) speed.
I see that you do a lot of manicuring under the screenâ?¦..lookinâ?? like you donâ??t buy the â??too much stressâ?� theory.
Nice picâ??sâ?¦.thanks for sharing.

Horsemanrocks.

Horseman,
So I was going to mount the screen at 9'' but they got too big too fast, so I installed it at 12''. It's mixed bagseeds so they're all over the place height wise so once I get it full of one strain(hopefully next grow) setting the height of the screen will be easier.

Yeah I trimmed em' up pretty good down below in hopes of getting them to focus their energy on the canopy. I'm done with the worst of it now and they really showed no signs of stress from trimming. I snipped a little bit each day or every couple days to give them time to recuperate.

Ripped a male yesterday and a couple others have lady parts.


Any suggestions on cooling my 15gal reservoir?

I've tried putting the airpump outside the room and put an ac in the adjacent room. Neither seemed to do much. The res is at about 80+- so I'm nervous. I'm kind of out of options to cool the closet too which also gets up to 80+. May just have to wait for outside temps to drop.

[Horsemanrocks]

Any suggestions on cooling my 15gal reservoir?

I personally am a never has beenâ?¦..so take my opinion w/ a pound of salt
Hereâ??s the WeeZard opinion from another threadâ?¦..

Relax Brah. Your tank temp is OK.
As long as the water is clean and the light is excluded you can run as high as 90 F. in the res.
Maybe higher, ah dunno.
But I've run near 90 for 3 weeks and did not change out the water at all during bloom.
I use no preventative other than what's already in my tap water and have yet to see any problems, (3rd grow).
Course, that could just be luck.

Well from what Iâ??ve read a chillerâ?¦â?¦Iâ??m sure thatâ??s no surprise.
I did see a post (I think over at ICmag) where a grower installed 2 PC fans (1 in & 1 out) on the lid of his controller. He loved itâ?¦..if you suffered low humidity to begin with, it might be fun to do.
My best advice is to wait a minute or two��the Weeze is omnipresent�..

Horsemanrocks.

[Horsemanrocks]

Weezeâ?¦..did you ever save a copy of Puffztersâ?? grow log. Maybe itâ??s something that I could model one after.

Aloha,
Horsemanrocks.

[Weezard]

"Then I have to double up to even sleep at nightâ?¦.sheesh!"

We're nocturnal.
We have no eyelids.
Can slip through a gap the size of a usb port.
Have no respect for privacy, or gravity.
And a reptillian code of ethics.

No get me wrong.
We're moral, but that morality is quite different from what humans, call ethical
behavior.
Quite frankly, what humans call ethical behavior, is what keeps us up all night!:(

Aloha,
Weezard

[Horsemanrocks]

Deja,
Iâ??ve been reading another thread where you were experiencing root rot. Ms Stinky suggested GH subculture. Did you ever try it?......if so, any conclusions?
Somehow the beneficial bacteria thing still intrigues me. Iâ??d take a schoolinâ??.

Still too long to think,
Horsemanrocks.

[oldmac]

Hey Horsemanrocks,

For you or anybody who has resivoir temperture problems and don't have access to Hawain tap water, you might try a product by DutchMasters called "zone".
It will prevent root rot and other root pathogens and will allow for higher temps without damage.I used it while I was chasing the heat ghost in a NFT rez many years ago.

The other solution is to take a small (lunch box sized) styrofoam cooler, put a coil of your air line in it (from your air pump) and fill with ice. The lower you can get the air temp into the rez, the lower the rez temp will be.
:)

[Horsemanrocks]

Good tip on the Dutch Masters â??Zoneâ?�â?¦â?¦.Itâ??s goes right into the res temps fileâ?¦.Iâ??ll likely need it some day. While Iâ??m kinda on hold, waiting for cooler temps to arriveâ?¦.in SoCal high temps can arrive about any time. Tonight the temperature isnâ??t dropping muchâ?¦.so dropping the temps (in the grow room) overnight involves â??active participationâ?�.
My local water is (or could be) very similar to the Zardâ??s description of hisâ?¦..pumped into above ground tanks and then delivered. Iâ??ll just make my best guess, and see what happens.
Youâ??re a good man, and always helpfulâ?¦â?¦I am bound and determined to stay out of the â??plant problemsâ?� section this fall. We shall seeâ?¦..

As alwaysâ?¦.hope that your life is good,
Horsemanrocks��out!

[Horsemanrocks]

One suggestion that I heard to lessen heat (I think that this came from oldmac) was to remove the heat created by the air pump/s for the buckets. (compressing air creates heat to the stones, and heat to the room) My solution was to run an air supply underground 80â?? from a large compressor at a distance and just use a regulator in my flower room. So the heat created locally was no longer an issue.
Since I was never totally impressed with the output (listed 1.75psi) supplied by the air pump I can now up the psi to the airstones to my liking. (with a 6â?� stone, only about half was creating bubbles) This is a recirculating DWC, but would survive easily on bubbles alone. So being satisfied with the output of the airstones, now I have the option of using the pump or not. (eliminating another source of heat) If I decide on full time circulation, putting it on a timer, or circulation solely for the purpose of ph-ing and/or feeding nutes to the buckets.
I do like options.

Horsemanrocks.

[Weezard]

Weezeâ?¦..did you ever save a copy of Puffztersâ?? grow log. Maybe itâ??s something that I could model one after.

Aloha,
Horsemanrocks.


No grow log, but I probably have the spreadsheets.
Would that help?

W.

[Horsemanrocks]

No grow log, but I probably have the spreadsheets.
Would that help?

Puffzter seems like a pretty thorough guyâ?¦..Yeah, Iâ??d love to see it. Even us mentally challenged might eventually learn somethingâ?¦â?¦yaâ?? think?

Manrocks

[Weezard]

Drat!:mad:
Dis buggah no like spreadsheet file kine.:wtf:
No can attach.:(
I'll E it to ya.:)

Onna way.:thumbsup:
2day:cool:

W.:stoned:

[Weezard]

feathers.

You are allowed to bump your own thread ya know.:cool:

I posted here a month ago, and not a peep outta you since.

You not gonna be social, not even offer offer a bug or a cola,
we gonna hafta find anudder porch.:(
Whattaya? Hibernating?

:DWeeze

[Horsemanrocks]

Thatâ??s the number of posts to read. Now consider that Iâ??m an old guy and have to read something at least twice to remember it, thatâ??s over 3 million posts to read. Itâ??s gonna take another couple of daysâ?¦..at least.

The good news is that hibernation means cooler temps, so I have clones inâ?¦.ready to take advantage of the cooler nights. The problem presently is that I put the mothers in to flower and they still refuse to commit. Theyâ??re still in small pots so I wonâ??t ever complete the flowering, all Iâ??m looking for is a yea or nay. The clones may need to be slowed as much as possibleâ?¦..any advice?

I started three others much later (too young to clone) the first one to commit showed his colors yesterday. A second showed pistils very clearly today, and the third is still kinda shy.

I built what I thought was an original idea, until I ran across slab tray lids that were pre-drilled. So maybe not so originalâ?¦..well, I hadnâ??t seen one before.

[attachment=o228537]

[attachment=o228538]

Itâ??s just a little pre-veg tray to speed things along a bit. (bubblers only)

I have (4) 40W 6500K tubes available for the pre-veg tray. Maybe just low light initially until the mamas show their stuff.

[attachment=o228539]

And modified the 6� netpots a little so that the 3 ¾� pre-veg netpot slips right in with little delay

[attachment=o228540]

Still diddlinâ?? with little thingsâ?¦..here just a little more control over a secondary exhaust fan.

[attachment=o228541]

All in all just a bunch of little stuff.

And of course you know that nothing pleases me more than having you hang on my porch. You, oldmac, Daâ??Hermie, and Shake are very entertaining on your http://boards.cannabis.com/hydroponics/167599-hydroponics-procyon-100-leds-2.html
thread. But yâ??all are so far over my head that humor is all I could contribute. Great reading though.

You not gonna be social, not even offer offer a bug or a cola,

Iâ??ll repeat that to you when one day you find me standing on your lanai.

Any updates on your uninvited midnight visitors?

Como siempre,
HMR

[Weezard]

Thatâ??s the number of posts to read. Now consider that Iâ??m an old guy and have to read something at least twice to remember it, thatâ??s over 3 million posts to read. Itâ??s gonna take another couple of daysâ?¦..at least.

The good news is that hibernation means cooler temps, so I have clones inâ?¦.ready to take advantage of the cooler nights. The problem presently is that I put the mothers in to flower and they still refuse to commit. Theyâ??re still in small pots so I wonâ??t ever complete the flowering, all Iâ??m looking for is a yea or nay. The clones may need to be slowed as much as possibleâ?¦..any advice?

Rather than garble what I read in a nudder thread,
I'll point ya at da front of dat horse, Old Mac, of course.


I started three others much later (too young to clone) the first one to commit showed his colors yesterday. A second showed pistils very clearly today, and the third is still kinda shy.

I built what I thought was an original idea, until I ran across slab tray lids that were pre-drilled. So maybe not so originalâ?¦..well, I hadnâ??t seen one before.

[attachment=o228537]

[attachment=o228538]

Itâ??s just a little pre-veg tray to speed things along a bit. (bubblers only)

I have (4) 40W 6500K tubes available for the pre-veg tray. Maybe just low light initially until the mamas show their stuff.

[attachment=o228539]

And modified the 6� netpots a little so that the 3 ¾� pre-veg netpot slips right in with little delay

[attachment=o228540]

Still diddlinâ?? with little thingsâ?¦..here just a little more control over a secondary exhaust fan.

[attachment=o228541]

All in all just a bunch of little stuff.

And of course you know that nothing pleases me more than having you hang on my porch. You, oldmac, Daâ??Hermie, and Shake are very entertaining on your http://boards.cannabis.com/hydroponics/167599-hydroponics-procyon-100-leds-2.html
thread. But yâ??all are so far over my head that humor is all I could contribute. Great reading though.

More horsefeathers. :D
No be so humble, you get it.:rastasmoke:
Your growroom conception and execution are elegant, brah.

You not gonna be social, not even offer offer a bug or a cola,

Iâ??ll repeat that to you when one day you find me standing on your lanai.

What? You no gonna set a spell.
We allus feed and inebriate our guests whenever possible.:jointsmile:

Any updates on your uninvited midnight visitors?

Como siempre,
HMR

No caught da buggahs, yet.
But, I got a plan.
[attachment=o228569]
I'll try to remember to document the setting of the snare.
Jus gotta grow up some bait firs', yah?

Good to see ya posting again.
Lizards get all kine nutzy ideas.
But dey need you kine guy to get organized enough to make 'em efficient.

Aloha,
Wee...

[oldmac]

Hey Horsemanrocks!:thumbsup: I was going to leave you a picture message yesterday and then I saw Weez leave you a post......and you responded. That's great, I figured you had got enough info from us, used us, and then floated away.

I really like your pictures, seems everything you are doing is well thought out. Plus it looks like you actually take pride in doing things nice and neat, kudos to you.

I'm not really sure what Weez is referring to, as per the clones. I don't remember 90% of the stuff I write, and the other 10% is questionable.:D
You can store cuttings till you are ready to make clones not sure that is what you need to do. If they are rooted clones you can just veg them in your clonning device. Since you want branches early, you can cut them and that too will slow them down. Plus get you multibranch plants early.

BTW you need to check out my aero/fog grow tray, and I have an album up of it. Good to see you are ok, now all we need to do is find CrabbyBack and find out what happened to her.:)

[DreadedHermie]

I was gonna make a joke about your ninja outfit in the other thread. It mighta sounded mean instead of just goofy, though, so I gave up and saw else shiny, and off my ADD ass goes wandering...

Anyway, I was gonna say something like, "Hey, the dry cleaners mixed up our costumes again. You're looking out the fly," but it only seemed really funny right before unconsciousness. Didn't want you to take it the wrong way.

Your setup looks great. Real neat, cleanly laid out, great photos...

I've got a question for you:
What kinda regulator / valve do you have between your air comp and the airstone? (I've got a "portable contractor's" compressor, a little Coleman or something like that--was thinkin' about using it like you are, to make bubbles.)

Like Oldmac, I'm unsure of where you are in your timetable with the clones. If the plan is to flower them all anyway, you could go ahead and flip them now and jes' keep an eye on the "mothers" for an early warning. If you see male parts, track down all the cuts from it and kill...wait a sec, you were gonna do that anyway, right? Anyway, you can cull the males from the flower room as easily as from the veg, cantcha?

[Horsemanrocks]

Oldmac,

That's great, I figured you had got enough info from us, used us, and then floated away.

Youâ??ve been around long enough to know that weâ??re all using each other. Me for your knowledge, and youâ?¦..just because I have such a pretty face.
Okâ?¦.so weâ??re doing this thing. All learing about our interests with â??friendsâ?� and â??repâ?� and all this silly shit. But you came to â??my rescueâ?� to get the ball rolling. Thatâ??s what I consider friendsâ?¦.you are a good manâ?¦..and I do value your friendship.
With that â??thick shitâ?� saidâ?¦.on to biz.

You can store cuttings till you are ready to make clones not sure that is what you need to do. If they are rooted clones you can just veg them in your clonning device.

Yeah, I probably should have put them in the fridgeâ?¦â?¦but I just couldnâ??t imagine that the mothers wouldnâ??t show by now. The clones are in the dome (earliest ones 2 weeks tomorrow) I still have a little time as no roots have actually emerged from the cubes yet. The mothers have the little bump where the calyx will formâ?¦.for quite a while now (weeks). I did learn from plants that I put in later that when they do get readyâ?¦.they do so in short order. So with luck, this will only turn out to be a newb freak out.

Since you want branches early, you can cut them and that too will slow them down. Plus get you multibranch plants early.

Yaâ?? mean I gotta take the blade to that tender little clone. Good tipâ?¦.I resist cutting too muchâ?¦..looks like Iâ??m gonna learn. Why is it that the simplest of thing so often elude us.

now all we need to do is find CrabbyBack and find out what happened to her.

I thought of her the other dayâ?¦.meant to go to see when she last posted. CB check inâ?¦.we miss you!

Hermie,


I was gonna make a joke about your ninja outfit in the other thread. It mighta sounded mean instead of just goofy, though, so I gave up and saw else shiny, and off my ADD ass goes wandering...

I was just jerking the Weeze around a bit��I think that his sense of humor was at a momentary lull. He appears to be recovering�..he just needed a little time.

I've got a question for you:
What kinda regulator / valve do you have between your air comp and the airstone? (I've got a "portable contractor's" compressor, a little Coleman or something like that--was thinkin' about using it like you are, to make bubbles.)

Not much of oneâ?¦..A friend had one for $5. Iâ??ll probably pick up a backup (hopefully soon enough) My criteria was that it be sensitive to lower pressures (much harder to find). If I get to the point that I determine that a dual stage regulator better serves, Iâ??ll do that (I am OCD yaâ?? know). For the moment if this cheapo fails I can â??borrowâ?� from my oxy/acetylene in the shop.

[attachment=o228632]

Like Oldmac, I'm unsure of where you are in your timetable with the clones. If the plan is to flower them all anyway, you could go ahead and flip them now and jes' keep an eye on the "mothers" for an early warning. If you see male parts, track down all the cuts from it and kill...wait a sec, you were gonna do that anyway, right? Anyway, you can cull the males from the flower room as easily as from the veg, cantcha?

I am a California boyâ?¦..limit here is 6 mature plants (Cal defines this as flowering) Got 18 clones (Shushâ?¦donâ??t tell) So like anybodyâ?¦..Just didnâ??t want to put males into flower. (Hell, Iâ??m an Americanâ?¦.I want it allâ?¦â?¦and I want it right now.)

Hermie, you too are a bright mindâ?¦..great humor on your threads, much appreciated.

For nowâ?¦.Iâ??ve exceeded by typing capacity

Om, Daâ??Hermie, Zardly â?¦â?¦. Namaste,
HMR.

[Horsemanrocks]

Regulators

Hermie, I felt like I could have done a little better with my answer about regulators. Here Iâ??m showing another â??regulatorâ?� (plenty sold on ebay etc) Well itâ??s not really a regulator at allâ?¦..more like a â??volume limiterâ?�, a valve with a gauge attached. They can be useful in a dynamic situation like spraying paintâ?¦.but they donâ??t actually regulate anything. Avoid this style.


[attachment=o228730]


But you can probably pick up a true regulator for $20-25. My search for low pressure regulators was wasted timeâ?¦..waaaayyyy too expensive. I imagine that anything that goes to zero can be dialed up until you get the kind of action that you like.

Hope that I did better this time.

Horsemanrocks.

[oldmac]

....hey sonny, HMR there...you run any tests yet to see what temperture the AIR comes out after dat thar pretty manifold?? Looks like it come from one of those big compressors, that make lots of temperture, da ya know what I mean?;)

That is nice work and I suppose you've thought about this already.
Still waiting for you to comment on my aero/fog LED setup. Chk it out in hydro section, plus my album of it's build.:thumbsup:

[DreadedHermie]

I haven't seen anything like that regulator / distribution block setup since the wife automated her mini-bar! :icon220: :glugglug:

Yoicks! 420 posts! Fire in the hole! :bigsmoke:

[Horsemanrocks]

hey sonny, HMR there

Sonnyâ??s okâ?¦..I like â??young fellaâ?� too, either one works. Todayâ??s gonna be a good day.

you run any tests yet to see what temperture the AIR comes out after dat thar pretty manifold

No testsâ?¦.the compressor is over 100â?? away, with 75â?? being underground. Didnâ??t in my wildest dreams imagine that it would be warmer than a local pump.

Still waiting for you to comment on my aero/fog LED setup. Chk it out in hydro section, plus my album of it's build.

Iâ??ll try to fit that in todayâ?¦â?¦Pops. (lemme know if you prefer â??old timerâ?�)

I haven't seen anything like that regulator / distribution block setup since the wife automated her mini-bar!

(6) one for each bucket, (4) for the pre-veg tray, (2) for the controller. Hell, even Iâ??m impressed.

Iâ??m beginning to suspect a little collusion here. Weeze brought me back just so you three would have somebody to beat up a little. Just so that you knowâ?¦.I come from a very thick skinned environment. When you fuck up in this part of the world, you hear about it immediately and unmercifully.
Thereâ??s an old saying in golfâ?¦..â?�every shot makes somebody happyâ?�.

Hermie, just gotta say how much I enjoyed your remake of Shakes avatarâ?¦.heâ??d be a fool not to use that!

Om, I absolutely love the frankenfogger. It occurs to me that you enjoy the building and innovation process as much as I do. I see so many participants here that miss â??putting it all togetherâ?� is so much fun. The fact that I started here in April and got closed out here by the summer heat has been a bonus for me. Iâ??ve enjoyed the process immensely and feel greatful for the time to put together a system that I hope to enjoy using as much as Iâ??ve enjoyed building.
The space that you have to work in has got to be the envy of all.

Iâ??ll include thisâ?¦â?¦just so that the â??beat up on Horsemanâ?� committee doesnâ??t find itself lacking ammunition.

The controller belowâ?¦.on wheels

[attachment=o228843]

The reservoir aboveâ?¦.on slides

[attachment=o228844]

Connecting the two

[attachment=o228845]

Thereâ?¦.that ought to useful.

â??Hit me with your best shotâ?�.
Rocksâ?¦.out.

[oldmac]

Nice work Sonny! :thumbsup: How's that for beatin ya up?

I enjoy new technology, whether lights, or grow systems. Some things I buy off the shelf other things I buy and modify and somethings you just gotta do from scratch. Right now I'm headed towards fog land. The real bitch is I built fogfognugen over a year ago, and we are only getting around to putting it (well 1/2 of it) into service now. It's been driving me crazy. (very short trip)
:D

[Horsemanrocks]

The bad news is that of the 6 indica bagseed that I took to discoveryâ?¦.
5 male
1 Female

The good news is that another grower graciously gave me 5 cuttings from what he called SS Silver Haze X Skunk. The bad is that Iâ??m running a couple weeks behind (I can easily live with that) The good news is that with the Sativa influence Iâ??ll end up with something much more to my liking.

Those that have followed along have seen my lighting. A 250W Hid flanked by (2) 90W ufoâ??s

[attachment=o229228]

Over 6 buckets DWC, bubblers, controller/pump etc.

[attachment=o229229]

As I sit today Iâ??m cloning (5) indica bagseed and (5) of the SS. Not enough of either for the 6 buckets. 4 of each (saving one of each back for mothers). So a mixed grow it is. As I sit today I imagine that Iâ??ll go with (4) of the SS and (2) of the bagseed.

What Iâ??m trying to get a handle on is which strains might be best to place under which lighting. The two outside buckets on either side being much more influenced by the LEDâ??s and the center buckets taking more influence from the HPS.

Most of you know that Iâ??m a newb and have never grown a thing. So I have no picture in my mind as to what I might end up with. The original plan was to Scrog.

[attachment=o229230]

That part Iâ??ll abandon if it appears to further complicate the issue. (Maybe it improves itâ?¦.I donâ??t know) Any help with a placement strategy would be appreciatedâ?¦.I really donâ??t have a clue.

Garcias,
Horsemanrocks
akaâ?¦Sonnyboy
akaâ?¦Kid

[Weezard]

"Any help with a placement strategy would be appreciated"

I'll give it a shot.:jointsmile:

Since moving the plants it not an easy option, it would seem wise to build "flexibility" into the light placement.

Unless the following stab at advice actually has some merit.

Indica will generally be squatter and have broader leaves, (better at gathering light, but also obstructive.
It will also finish first, generally.
So, I'd put in on the outside just to make the scrog easier.

Aloha ya ol' cow poker.:D

Weeze

[DTRave420]

Luv your setup man although this thread has my head spinnin'...You hydro guys are truly demented,lol!!!Can those LED's be lowered to be used as side sups at times???

[Horsemanrocks]

That was quickâ?¦..you work fastâ?¦..although not â??at homeâ?� Iâ??m sure.

Since moving the plants it not an easy option, it would seem wise to build "flexibility" into the light placement.

Thanks for the advice, but with (2) fans, (3) lights, hood exhaust, and control cables��just a little more than I have energy for at this time.

That placement accomplishes two things. If I go with (4) SS and (2) bagseed I can compare the SS with the hid influence to the SS with the led influence. And the led influenced sativa to the indica.

Iâ??m unconcerned at this point about everything finishing togetherâ?¦..on one level Iâ??m getting a little anxious to â??get on with itâ?�. It appears that the cooler nights will allow finally moving forward. (My target was mid Octoberâ?¦.only a little behind that now)

My harvest strategy is â??all over the placeâ?�. Some earlier, some later. Now with all the lighting differences, strain differences, harvest differencesâ?¦â?¦I may not be able to report for a considerable period of timeâ?¦â?¦.itâ??s clear that Iâ??d better take a lot of notes. (I donâ??t even do lolâ??s).

Work has fallen off to an all time lowâ?¦.so I managed to give a client a little more than he could afford in exchange for a 6100btu window mount A/C. I donâ??t even begin to imagine that it would be sufficient to carry me through the heat of the summer, it might extend a marginal beginning in say May. Youâ??ve followed my efforts to eliminate heatâ?¦â?¦well, just one more tool in the arsenal.

Thanks Weeze, you and oldmac validate that â??friendsâ?� thing consistently.


Horsemanrocks
akaâ?¦Sonnyboy
akaâ?¦Kid

[Horsemanrocks]

Thanks, DTR


Can those LED's be lowered to be used as side sups at times???

Oh yeah, theyâ??re on yo-yoâ??s. The original intent was to widen the footprint of the hid in the center, to expand the coverage over a rectangular flower chamber. I am getting excited about eventually comparing â??hid budâ?� to â??led budâ?� with the other variables unchanged. One day Iâ??ll actually be able to submit an â??opinionâ?� on the difference.

Horsemanrocks
akaâ?¦Sonnyboy
akaâ?¦Kid

[Weezard]

"Thanks Weeze, you and oldmac validate that â??friendsâ?� thing consistently."

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a "kid".
El oh el!

Aloha Youngsta'
Keoni.

[Horsemanrocks]

No man stands so tall as when he stoops to help a "kid".

Ok, youâ??ve got a few years on themâ?¦..but I still wouldnâ??t rule out a future in the NBA. I hear it really pays wellâ?¦..and what the hell, youâ??ve got the time.

El oh el!

Back atchyaâ??

Kidrock.