Please help! TS form included

[sergentjunk]

C=Answer if you grow coco
E= EVERYONE needs to answer lol!


E-indoor
E-coco
E-specific medium: coco/perlite
CSL-Soil type/brand: Readygro Moisture formula
SCL-Anything you have added to the soil: none
SCLR-Soil or slab runoff pH: 6.5
E-Water source: Tap
E-Source water pH: originally 7.5-8. PH Down to 6.5
E-Age of plant: 2.5 months
E-Type of fertilizer: Pure Blend Pro (organic)
E-Rate of application: feed once every other week. half dosage
E-Lighting source and distance from plant: HPS now 6"
E-Air temperature:75* lights off, max 80* lights on
E-Air % Relative humidity: 35%
E-Lighting schedule: 12/12 8p.m. to 8a.m.
E-Type of ventilation your room has: in a 2'x2'x4' homebox xs dayton exhaust, inline duct from a/c unit for intake w/4" can fan to boost cold air (it's hot here)
TR-Did you pre-soak your media in pH corrected solution: no


Okay, here's the deal folks. Please keep in mind I'm very new (my first grow) and all products used are recommendations from my local hydro shop, so hopefully he's not as much as a douchebag as he seems:

I have four plants: 3 fems, 1 male. One of the fems is having some strange leaf development. They are almost 2 weeks into flowering (started 6-14-09), the tallest lady started showing some leaf curling in a few of the lower leafs. This after watering with veg nute still.

The only thing I did up untill changing the light from MH to HPS on 6-20-09 was change the light cycle from 18/6 to 12/12. So basically I left the MH in for a week, and gave one more dosage of veg nutes this past Saturday. I also changed to HPS this past Saturday.

The fingers on the leaves are curling in from the edged turning into "tubes". Some were worse than others, but the upper leaves (half way up and up) seem ok. There is some discoloration (yellow-ish) on some of the curled leaves, but some of the curled leaves are still green. It's acting very strangely considering what I put into them. My watering schedule is about once a week...I've read to wait until the pots are dry a few inches down to water, and that's how long they take to get that dry. Every other watering I give half the recommended dosage of nutes. I water with balanced 6.5 water, and the runoff is the same as the input. I have not tested the PPM as I didn't have a tester at the time.

Birthdays are good to me though and my friend got me a Hanna 98129 tester. So being the eager beaver, I tested my tap's PPM and it was almost 600(590-ish). I was using his tester for PH balances previously. He has the pimptastic Hanna tester.

A little history: These plants were started in an Aero Garden and stretched A LOT. Maybe I should've LST'd this particular one. Other than the leaf problem, the plants seem healthy and took to the transition from the Garden to coco pots nicely. Nice thick stalks, longs fingers, etc. Other than this leaf problem there would be no indication that anything is wrong.

Tonight whilst I wait for some saint to reply and lend their expertise, I am going to run 6.0 PH water through them and flush thoroughly. Maybe they're under nourished? I don't quite understand the whole PPM logic yet. Don't know what it's supposed to be, what is too much or too little. I did read around here as much as I could, but could never find a definitive answer to what the plants like best growing in coco.

If pics are needed let me know and I'll snap some tonight.

Thanks in advance for any help everyone. It is very appreciated as I know how long this post is LOL.

****Almost forgot! The guy at my hydro shop said that coco will "assimilate" to what you put into it. So if I add 6.5 PH water, the coco will be 6.5. For shits and giggles I bought a cheapo $10 soil meter just to get some indication of the coco PH, it read between 8-7. Don't know how accurate that is, just thought I would throw it in.

*junk

[phatsesh101]

here too

[phatsesh101]

some pics would help

im not sure but i think 6.5 is a lil high for coco i will check but i think it shuold be a bit lower

have you calibrated your new metr yet?

[sergentjunk]

PHATESH: You're right, it's supposed to be 5.8-6.2. Some of the leaf tips now are taking on all new little twisty curly shapes LOL.

However I've done some MORE research and figured out what my problem is. That is that I'm an idiot. I did so much research on this, but was researching the wrong thing.

I was ASSUMING coco was treated as a soil grow, so I was following guidlines for soil...not coco. Coco, come to find out, is a considered more of a hydro grow and needs to be kept moist. I've been watering once a week, when the medium gets almost dry. Not good for coco. So much of what I was doing wasn't good for coco.

The entire problem is that watering once a week, every other time being a balanced nute formula. Well during that week the nutes dry, solidify, turn to salt, etc. When I water the following week, I only water enough so water just starts to drip. Not really "flushing" the hardened week old nutes out.

Current readings: Input: PH(no nutes) 5.8. PPM 600
Output: PH 5.6. PPM 1200-1400 depending on the plant

I'm no scientist, but I see a problem here.

With the water I had prepared I was able to flush to get them down to a PPM of 900 across the board. I will continue to do massive flushes over the next couple of days to get the PPM down to a reasonable level, once I research more and find out what that is. But from what I've gleaned, I think it's around 300-500?

So sorry for waisting anyone's time, and thank you Phatesh for trying to help me out. That's what I love about this forum, someone doesn't do enough research and STILL gets a helping hand.

Peace
*junk

[Dutch Pimp]

What size HPS light?..cool tube or reflector glass-inclosed?

6 inches seems very close?

[Rusty Trichome]

Did you know there is a feeding schedule available for Botanicare products?

Botanicare Feeding Schedule (http://www.sea-of-green.com/images/documents/BotanicareFeedSchedule_0507.pdf)

Ph stress and underwatering will cause problems in the upper canopy, especially if pushing the limits with nutrition, bulb distance and temps.

[phatsesh101]

I was thinking bout running coco so ihad some info.

glad we can help, its always a learning experiance good growing.

oh and grow room pics are worth more than you could ever write in any form and are always reccomended for a faster and better and more responses.

[sergentjunk]

Dutch: It's 250w. I will get the water cooled cool tube eventually, I just don't have the 275 to drop in it right now. Probably next cycle. Since this is the tallest of all plants, I went ahead and bent it over and tied it down. My theory there is two fold: One..expose the middle of the plant to more light(it's pretty bare in that area). Second...to get it farther away from the light. Now they're all the same distance from the light: about 10"

Rusty: Ya I just found that last night, but not sure how to interpret the schedule. If I'm reading it correctly, then I should have fed them 25-30ml (almost 2 tablespoons). My confusion is: is that every watering/feeding every day, once a week? dosage per plant: 4 plants would come out to 100-120ml for the whole water formula? Or dosage per total water formula? Also...I have read that it's best to administer half the recommended dosage, does this hold true for coco and organic nutes??

Also, during the "Transition" period, it calls for 15ml of veg 15ml of bloom(which I already have, just haven't administered). So is that the two mixed together? Again, per plant? My watering method is to prepare about 4-5 gallons of water, balance it, and water all plants. I'm preparing more now obviously to continue with the flushes, and once that balances out the PPM, I will resume feeding with bloom. This time keeping the coco hydrated. Please excuse my ignorance or just flat out stupidity in this matter, but looking at the feeding schedule just raises more questions for me. Maybe I'm making it too complicated than it is.

You had mentioned that PH stress and underwatering will cause problems in the upper canopy. Well that's the rub...the upper canopy is fine, the problems are occurring well below the canopy. Does the same philosophy apply? I've been testing my PH for the past three weeks and it SEEMS fine, but my PPM runoff is off the charts. Need to stabilize that and water MUCH more.

I have to search more to find out what good PPM levels are. I have no idea what they should be, but I'll find it. I just know they should be lower than they are, and need to be watering more than I am. Does anyone know how to reduce PPM in tap water??? Mine comes out at 600.


Thanks so much for the replies! I really appreciate everyone taking the time to read my lengthy posts.

*junk

[sergentjunk]

Thank you Phatesh! I totally spaced on taking pics lastnight. I spent so much time and was consumed with the flush I didn't even think about it. I WILL take some tonight and post. Ya this is ALLLL learining for me, but for my first attempt it's going pretty well...of course a lot of that has to do with this forum. I just feel lucky enough to be starting out with 3 fems out of 4 plants.

[Rusty Trichome]

It's a week-by-week schedule, not day by day. Plain, properly ph'd water inbetween when necessary.

With the schedule, you add everything it says to add for that week, and give it that day. (mixed into water, of course) Don't save it to add more the next day, it will go bad. If in the transition period it says to add something...add it, too. If it doesn't say to add it, don't add it. But until you get used to working with those nutes...one feeding a week.

Although a picture is worth thousand words, it can have a thousand stories. To me, pictures are just another tool. Filling-out the troubleshooting form is still worthwile.

Wish I was good enough at troubleshooting that I could diagnose and suggest a treatment plan, just by looking at a picture. Sure would save me a shitload of time.

[sergentjunk]

Phatesh: Can I ask why you decided to not go coco?? Thank you for your insight and participation!

Rusty: Got it now. Thanks for the disertation. That answered every question I had on feeding. So my thinking with feeding once a week is to completely flush with the watering preceeding the feeding. That way all the old crap is out, if there was any left. Then next watering, add nutes. The one thing I read is that you can't over water coco with correct drainage.

I'll still post some pics later tonight just so everyone can see what's going on.

Well the cloud is lifting and it's all starting to make sense now. Shit, after I got a 1400 PPM runoff after a 600PPM intake...it all started to make sense there. Everything else I've learned from here just lets me know I've been compounding the issue this whole time.

Thanks again Rusty! I've been following yours, Dutch's, and Stinkys posts a lot and usually always refer to you desert growing guide you posted. As I live in the same area, it's been an invaluable tool.

*junk

[phatsesh101]

when i started growing i couldnt afford all the tools needed to run anything but soil or peat so i refined my techniques around that. as time goes on i like experiment with different mediums and stuff

next run will be superoots pots vs standard for end wieght cause some thing arouse at the end of my last grow i didnt care for so im gonna try something else

oh and the pics are in addition to the form not in lieu of it, sorry about my half ass stoner posts. damn sour d covered in twreck fullmelt fucks me off

[sergentjunk]

Very cool Phatesh. As soon as I get comfortable with growing, I'll start to experiment with mediums. So far though (now that I know more) I'm starting to like the coco. Seems to have the benefits of hydro, but an easier set up...llike soil. My friend has a full hydro set up, and I like my actuall set up better, but like having the benies of hydro. Let me know how the superoot pots turn out, very curious on those.

Ya I know pics are great...but just as you have "half ass stoner posts" LOL, I have half ass attention span. So when I'm flushing and observing PPM runoff of monumental proportions, I forget to click. I'll get 'em up tonight. I've been wanting to post pics of my grow anyway, nows a better reason than ever.

Dutch: Love the chart, and thank you! So anything above the 100% line is dangerous?? At 6", my lady was up to 175 PAR. A little too much? LOL

Thanks again everyone. Now I can't stay away from this place. Love it!

*junk

[Dutch Pimp]

Dutch: Love the chart, and thank you! So anything above the 100% line is dangerous?? At 6", my lady was up to 175 PAR. A little too much? LOL



yeah...light distance is a tricky thing....and not all reflectors are created equal...some are better than others. The ones with crinkles seem to be better than smoothed polished surfaces...IMO.

I couldn't get my 400 watt HPS or CMH bulbs closer than 15 inches from the canopy. I have a smooth polished reflector...:(

[Rusty Trichome]

There's nothing wrong with making do with what you have, lol.
Being on a fixed income makes one resourseful, and I don't grow commercially so am not going to sweat a lumen or two. :jointsmile:

Also, it was 96 degrees in my flowering shed a few minutes ago when I took this shot. (107 outside) Thank goodness for air conditioning. :D

[sergentjunk]

Dutch: well I have a 250w in a "crinkeled" hood. I have to tell you it's bright as all hell in the homebox!! I almsot need nuclear test shades when I open it up LOL. Strangely enough, the one plant seeming to be doing the best is the 1 male. He is (was) the farthest away (about 15")and is filling and "balling" out ever so nicely. So I just followed suit and lowered the plants to about 10" away from the light lastnight (no more room to raise the light). My lights come on at 8pm so I'm looking forward to seeing how they're doing, and giving them another bath.

Rusty: Yes it was a hot one today, and early!! By 8am I was thinking "wtf! it's hot!" Oh well, summer is upon us. I have a wall mount a/c unit with half it's ducting piped into the grow room, keeping it a cool 76* lately. It's nice, elect. bill sucks. I know you stated here and in your dealing with heat thread that you've had good experiences in the low to mid 90's. Still makes me nervouse though to even let them get above 80*. Am I being too paranoid and anal??

*junk

[Rusty Trichome]

It's basically a balancing act. But yeah...kinda being anal, lol. Is a hothouse optimal? No. But I go through this every year, and can't afford a larger a/c, nor the higher electric bills it would create. And I'm very pleased with my results, regardless. I also work at home so can keep an eye on 'em all day.

Also, under these extreme conditions...my indica's and indica dom's fare better at the upper temp extremes than do the sativa's and sativa dom's. Vice-versa in the winter.

Yeah, last few weeks were beautiful, then this week someone turned the oven on. Best spring in a few years though. Actually had one. :thumbsup:

[sergentjunk]

Right on Rusty. I'll raise the a/c t-stat that I wired into the grow room in small increments to let it get to around 85*. I don't want to do it all the way right away. It's sitting at 76* right now and a 10* difference in temp might not be favorable. As it's getting hotter here, that probably won't lower my elec bill, but it will at least stop it from spiraling out of control. Wish I was able to work at home full time. I can only do it part time now.

I can't remember when the last time was we had a spring. It was very very nice.

Lament for our spring

*junk

[Rusty Trichome]

I wouldn't go overboard, nor would I do it if I could afford a cooler growroom, a cool tube, a mansion in Beverly Hills... You did read how it may add a week or more to harvest date, right? And I've never tried using coco for this. Would you be able to keep the soil from drying too quick?

Ok...got the disclaimers out of the way. But if bills are pressing, I'd push the limits in small increments. Keep an eye on soil moisture and ambient humidity levels. You'll have to water a tad more. Perhaps a lot more, lol. I'd forsee no problems with a couple degrees a week or so till acclimated...except I've never tried with coco. :wtf:

[sergentjunk]

Thanks Rusty. I'll keep that all in mind, and I remember you mentioned the possible length of harvest time...which is understandable. I figured it would dry out the coco faster, so I'll just keep up on it. I did another flush tonight and got all but one down to 700PPM, and go that one down to 600PPM. So I think I'm on the right track. I did raise the temp up to 79*, and will continue probably to about 85*....baby steps though

Ok, here's the pics as promised. My 2 month old beagle ate the "tube" leaves that I pruned off, so I couldn't snap those...and he seems a touch happier :stoned:
The lighting turns out funky under a HPS light...very strange and hard to get the color interpretation across, but here ya go:
1st: is of the problem plant as mentioned before. These tips are curling under.
2nd: The center of this one blood red, off the same plant. Normal?
3rd: Lower leafs of the same plant. Notice the stems? Strange color but could be normal.
4th: The whole grow room, complete with bent plant
5:Lower leafs of another fem, but all in all she's in good shape. Just wanted to show it off to see if it's indicative of an overlying problem.

I'm hoping everything is under control now that I got the PPM's down, lowered the plants and the PH...oh and of course watering a lot more regularly. However, I would still love to hear anyone's input on this.

Thanks again!

*junk

[sergentjunk]

Here's the crap factory that ate the leaves. He's my boy though, he rocks

*junk

[Rusty Trichome]

Since we're showing pet pix...
Here's Bo (4.5 lb chihuahua) and his favorite fetch toy.

[sergentjunk]

LOL....that's awesome Rusty. We have a little chihuahua too, she's a freak. Does he eat your leaves too?

Looking forward for the lights to come on tonight and see how they like a night with half the PPM they were used to. I'll post results and updated pics when I see some change.

*junk

[phatsesh101]

my jack russel well eat the white widow but runs from the master kush lol

looks like some possible light burn or ahh lets see how they come back should start looking good now hopefully

[sergentjunk]

my jack russel well eat the white widow but runs from the master kush lol

LOL...hrmmm, wonder why that is??


looks like some possible light burn or ahh lets see how they come back should start looking good now hopefully

I thought that too, but it's not on the upper canopy, just on the lower half. If it was light burn wouldn't it be on the top too??

*junk

[phatsesh101]

i have a light that has funny hot spots, probly need a new bulb but ne way. ,.

and i think a some kind of toxicity does that too but with the flush it shouldnt be a prob, no worries

[sergentjunk]

i have a light that has funny hot spots, probly need a new bulb but ne way. ,.

That raises a good question. I'm having a brain fart on what they're called, but do those spot diffusers that you can put in front of your lamps work at all?? I was thinking since I have such limited headroom that I might want to consider one of those. Or the water cooled Cool Tubes.



and i think a some kind of toxicity does that too but with the flush it shouldnt be a prob, no worries

Hopefully any toxicity that was in there is gone for the most part. I did two nights of heavy flushing, soaking, agitating, and draining. I pulled the male out last night as he has done his job now. So now there's much more needed room in the tent.

I was able to flush the plants down to between 600-700. I went a bought distilled water last night. I'm now saving up for and RO system btw. So I mixed 4 gallons of 35 PPM with Pro Blend flowering to bring it up to 360. Fed, resulting in a PPM runoff of around 550, which is lower than the previous night, but this time included nutes. So it's not as high as I've seen, but I want to ease back into things. They seem to be doing well, lots of new growth, and more little bud sites popping up all over the place. I'll update pics in a couple of days. The very tall lady(the original problem plant) that I had bent over and tied down has vigorously brought her head up and is going towards the light...she's much happier now.

Thanks again everyone, all the help is much appreciated. Hopefully after I get to learn more I can start to return the favor.

*junk

[Rusty Trichome]

Glad to hear they're perking-up. :thumbsup:

If you untie her, she'll have a tendency to spring back upright. But check both ends of your string often, or you can strangle the plant. You can also tie-down the shoots as they compete to be the tallest, if need be.

[sergentjunk]

Holy shit...these things are blowing up now! I've never seen such a response in such a short amount of time. There are new bud sites all over the place, and the existing ones are going crazy.

Rusty: ya I'm gonna leave her tied down for the rest of the grow. Her head is going back up of course, and all along the main stem there is new growth and new hairs (pisitls?). I am keeping the tie around the stem open so it has room to grow, and she seems to be extremely happy with the situation. Good idea on the chutes, I never thought about that...but it's good to know as I'm sure they WILL compete. Now after I've seen all the growth, I'm getting impatient LOL. My first grow and I think I might be more interested in the final product than smoking the final product. I'll update with pics on a few days.
Science is fun.

On a side note, is there ANY way to tell what strain this might be??? They were bag seeds, out two different bags. But it was VERY nice stuff.

*junk

[sergentjunk]

well they were perking up. Actually the two are doing goo...it's this one problem plant...

Pics 1 and 2 are leaves that are still on the plant.
Pic 3 are leaves I had to cut off
Pic 4 is a leaf still on the the, but a little higher up. (all the others are below the halfway point)
Pic 5 are the other two plants that seem to be doing ok, other than a small yellow spot on the one in the back.

After flushing friday and saturday nights, got the PPM down from 1400 to 700. Fed them sunday night and read the runoff to be in the mid 500's. Left them alone monday, and watered lastnight(tuesday night) with a very mild solution of nutes because I had some mix left over. Mixed some leftover with mostly tap water, had a runoff of 560PPM. Now I see this tonight. I still don't know what the ideal levels should be for my nute, coco combo. Botanicare's feeding schedule says nothing about PPM....so I'm kinda guessing here. I read somewhere on here that it takes about 3 days to see the effects of anything, so that would land this on about feeding day. Can someone please confirm if this is nute burn or not??

PH was always 5.9 going in and coming out with every watering.
I'm very confused as the other two seem to be doing ok with the same feed/water administration.

Thanks folks,

*junk

[Rusty Trichome]

First thing I thought of when I saw the leaves was H2O2 burn. (still green but crispy leaves) Also looks to me like ph swing (canoeing and twisting of the leaves) and overnute. (browning and leaf margin upturning and slight browning) With using the coco, do you use CalMag or something similar?
Wish I could help more, but I have no hands-on experience with hydro or coco growing. (might I recommend some peat-based soil, lol?)

Takes about three days to see anything positive. Bad shitcan happen overnight.

If this is happening only on the one plant, perhaps it's needs are different than the other two. (different strain?) I'd keep doing what you're doing on the two that are fine...and perhaps lower nute strength on the problem child.

[phatsesh101]

i gave my plants the wrong nutes about two + weeks ago and theyre finally coming round after a over 2 weeks after a transplant and all the older leaves that were effected continued to burn until gone, now shes purdy again.

im not recommending a transplant as mine were dirty girls in organics and i couldnt flush or better it did nothing.

i think rusty got it. and your ph jump could have here sayin wtf

[sergentjunk]

H2O2 burn?? I've never heard of that. Something else to research LOL.
Not that I doubt both suggestions, but how could it be PH swing when it's read stable for the last two weeks? The runoff is always the same as the level I pour in...5.8-6.1. Is that enough to be PH swing or am I missing something? I am NOT using calmag yet, but I need to. I just read, especially using distilled water (which I thought would be safer while adding nutes), that calmag is necessary...I was unaware. I'm stopping off and getting some tonight. It's weird though, all the new growth on the problem plant is ok, and it's still flowering nicely. It's jut the current/older leaves that are starting to get all outta whack. But I fear it may be indicative of something else that if I don't catch, could take the whole plant with it.

They are two different strains. The two good plants are one, the bad is another. So one needing different methods than the other doesn't surprise me and it's been something I've been meaning to ask but spaced it.

I will continue to use the same methods for the two good ones, and try to drive the bad one a little differently.

So to recap if I may ask:

-H2O2 burn...what is it?
-Can it be PH swing if it's always between 5.8-6.1, or am I not understanding that correctly?
-Could the lack of calmag be the total issue?
-Is the fact that the new growth looks good now, but the older fan leaves that are affected mean anything??

I forgot to mention I fed them Botanicare Pro Bloom for flowering if that helps.

Thanks again for the replies, you all rock! Hopefully I'll get this figured out.

*junk

[phatsesh101]

5 days ago ur ph in was 6.5 +- 0.2 now your 5.9 so that is .6 +/- 0.4 but just that .6 can cause probs, hence the different ph levels between peat and coco

as far as the new growth being nicer than the old is a sign of a mobile element deficiancy the reverse is of an immobile deficiancy (ugly new growth) typically but the cause of deficiancy is usually from ph lockout generally as for what elements are mobile and immoblie is your homework for tonight LOL;)

it might be a reaction to the ph flux and just needs to grow out if everything is

the cal mag may fix if your prob is magnesium def i need to read back

first ph now distilled water ur sheets says tap not distilled :wtf:

[sergentjunk]

5 days ago ur ph in was 6.5 +- 0.2 now your 5.9 so that is .6 +/- 0.4 but just that .6 can cause probs, hence the different ph levels between peat and coco

That is correct. I was balancing the PH around 6.5, then read that coco does better at 5.8-6.1...so I corrected to that. Thanks for reminding me though...a lot has happened in the past week and I forget :(. But I am glad to know that even a fluctuation of .6 can make an impact. Still new to this "science" and how it all relates to one another.


as far as the new growth being nicer than the old is a sign of a mobile element deficiancy the reverse is of an immobile deficiancy (ugly new growth) typically but the cause of deficiancy is usually from ph lockout generally as for what elements are mobile and immoblie is your homework for tonight LOL;)

Awesome, don't even know where to begin on that on LOL, but I'll figure it out. I have no problem with homework. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction!


it might be a reaction to the ph flux and just needs to grow out if everything is

That's sort of what I was thinking, and hoping.


first ph now distilled water ur sheets says tap not distilled :wtf:

I had been, through this whole grow up untill feeding them on sunday, using tap water that has a PPM level of 700. So at the time I filled out the form, yes I was using tap, and only used distilled once to feed(sunday), and a small amount mixed with tap on monday. The first flush I read the runoff at 1400, by the end of the second got it in the high 600's to high 700' depending on the plant. So knowing that I will never get the PPM below 600 using tap water, decided to use distilled for feeding only since tap plus nutes would bring the PPM to 1k or more. I still haven't been able to find a recommended PPM level for coco and the nutes I'm using. For all I know 1400 might be ok, and using 700PPM tap with nutes might still be ok. I don't know. I posted a tapwater thread...here... (http://boards.cannabis.com/indoor-growing/172816-tapwater-ppm.html)in the indoor growing section and it was suggested that 600 was high for cloning. Well I'm not now and don't plan on cloning. At this point I'm guessing on what the right PPM is for my setup. I know guessing isn't the right way to do it, but I can't find the right way so I'm going off cumulative reports of other growers and their methods. I've read anywhere between 600 and 1100 is good for flowering. Considering their state at the time, I didn't want to blast them with nutes to bring them up to 1k, kinda wanted to ease them back into the feeding if that makes sense.

Sorry for the confusion regarding tap/distilled Phatesh. But yes, I watered with distilled/nutes once on Sunday, and a small amount of the remaining mix with 2gallons of tap on monday night. PPM runoff Monday was 560...I did nothing last night and planning on water with plain tap tonight. I will update the form to state that I am now using tap for normal watering, and distilled with the nute mix(if I can edit that post). Unless I am able to find some solid PPM info.

Hopefully this all makes sense and I'm not annoying anyone too much LOL. If I am, I understand. Trying to keep these questions to a minimum, but am doing research between postings.

Thanks everyone!

*junk

[Rusty Trichome]

H2O2 is hydrogen peroxide.

What I was trying to say, is that the soil mix is buffered (usually with lime) to get the mix to buffer to a set ph. In other words...an african violet mix is buffered differently than the cactus mixes, which are buffered differently than the coco mixes, which are buffered different than other mixes from other companies, and so on....Each mix and brand have their own formula, so dialing it in is sometimes a drag, unless you have lime and a ph pen.

If you are trying to fight against the ph of the soil, perhaps adjusting the soil or switching brands may be necessary.

For instance: If the soil is buffered to a 6.0, (which would have less lime than a mix buffered to a 6.8 or 7.0) then even if you add 7.0 water, runoff will be closer to what the soil is buffered to. Perhaps in the range of 6.1 to 6.3 or so, runoff. As the lime depletes in the soil, the buffering fades with it. Adding lime bumps the ph of the soil up.

This is where patience and a slow-go approach comes in handy. Eventually it all falls into place. Making small changes, one at a time will net you the best enlightenment, because you can see the cause and effect results. If you change three things, and it still doesn't work...which thing was the wrong thing?

Getting tired. Hope I got the point across. I think I'm explaining it more complicated than it has to be. :jointsmile:

[sergentjunk]

H2O2 is hydrogen peroxide.

What I was trying to say, is that the soil mix is buffered (usually with lime) to get the mix to buffer to a set ph. In other words...an african violet mix is buffered differently than the cactus mixes, which are buffered differently than the coco mixes, which are buffered different than other mixes from other companies, and so on....Each mix and brand have their own formula, so dialing it in is sometimes a drag, unless you have lime and a ph pen.

If you are trying to fight against the ph of the soil, perhaps adjusting the soil or switching brands may be necessary.

For instance: If the soil is buffered to a 6.0, (which would have less lime than a mix buffered to a 6.8 or 7.0) then even if you add 7.0 water, runoff will be closer to what the soil is buffered to. Perhaps in the range of 6.1 to 6.3 or so, runoff. As the lime depletes in the soil, the buffering fades with it. Adding lime bumps the ph of the soil up.

This is where patience and a slow-go approach comes in handy. Eventually it all falls into place. Making small changes, one at a time will net you the best enlightenment, because you can see the cause and effect results. If you change three things, and it still doesn't work...which thing was the wrong thing?

Getting tired. Hope I got the point across. I think I'm explaining it more complicated than it has to be. :jointsmile:

Yep you got the point across. Sorry for the fatigue. I have a tendency to over explain things too...hence my long replies. So I'm keeping this one short. I guess I miss understood the guy at my hydro shop when he said that coco will assimilate to what you put into it. I think I'm miss understanding quite a bit. His statement would lead me to believe that whatever I put in the coco, that's the ph level of the coco...maybe not now. I'm sticking to the one at a time method. So now I will just give them pure balnced 5.9 tap with no nutes and see what happens over the next week or so.

Thanxs Rusty and Phatesh for helping with the latest dilema.
*junk

[Rusty Trichome]

Not tired of this thread, but just plain tired. Trying to get the ground ready for some fruit trees and blackberry and grape vines. (yes, they do grow in the desert) But it's friggin hot here, and no backhoe. Sucks the strength right out of ya.

Have you looked through some of the coco growlogs? Might pick-up a few good pointers I'm unable to provide. Could even ask a question or two about their techniques if the thread is still active. Not trying to push ya off on other's, but Dammit Jim, I'm just a soil guy. (sorry, t'was a crappy Star Trek reference)

[sergentjunk]

Not tired of this thread..
OH...no I didn't mean that Rusty! LOL...not at all. I know how hot it is here (I've been working outside too), so I feel ya.


Have you looked through some of the coco growlogs? Might pick-up a few good pointers I'm unable to provide. Could even ask a question or two about their techniques if the thread is still active. Not trying to push ya off on other's, but Dammit Jim, I'm just a soil guy. (sorry, t'was a crappy Star Trek reference)

Funny you should mention that....I found WeedHound's most awesome grow log for Botanicare products that details his feeding schedule and most of what I've been looking for...PPM Levels. I know it's no absolute, but it's a guide. He feeds everyday I think. Crazy. That particular grow was in higromite rocks and the thread was in the hydro section. See my problem (I know,,,I have more than 1 ;)), is that I keep thinking I have a soil grow...I don't . Coco is considered more hydro than anything. Breaking that thought process of soil is my mistake. Even though I'm putting matter in a pot...it's not soil and shouldn't be treated as such. I stopped on the way home and picked up some CalMag and ClearEx. If we aren't Botanicare shareholders, we should be dammit LOL.

For those of you who have seen that particular log...what's your opinions??
For those of you who haven't...it's here. (http://boards.cannabis.com/hydroponics/147458-weedhounds-nute-schedule-hydro-botanicare.html) If anyone gets a chance let me know your thoughts.

This is all very fascinating to me. Makes me want to do it for a living, not just for the weed, but because this is actually fun as shit to me.

Thanks everyone so much. I'll keep updating. Hopefully this will help someone in my situation someday.

*junk

[Rusty Trichome]

Profound revelations are always so...enlightening. :jointsmile:

WeedHound is a knowledgeable grower, and a fine lady. Won't steer ya wrong. :thumbsup:

[sergentjunk]

He feeds everyday I think.


WeedHound is a knowledgeable grower, and a fine lady.

Woops! LOL. Sorry WH

*junk

[phatsesh101]

I water daily 8-10oz. and when needed a lil more
keep them moist and hungry

that would be the life huh, no more work just wake lite one and go into the LAB, it will make you mad, mad i tell you wahahahahah.

another wonderful harvest :rastasmoke:

[sergentjunk]

I water daily 8-10oz. and when needed a lil more
keep them moist and hungry

That's what I'm doing now just to sort of start back to square one, then I'll start a new feeding regimen. I need to get all the old shit out of there and just start from scratch...I think LOL. Seems to be the best philosophy so far!

Also, on cannn-uk.com I found a form you can fill out for your type of medium and it will tell you the recommended PPM levels for growing in coco throughout the stages of growth, but it can also include any type of medium. I can post the link if anyone is interested.


that would be the life huh, no more work just wake lite one and go into the LAB, it will make you mad, mad i tell you wahahahahah.

another wonderful harvest :rastasmoke:

Ya now that would be the shit. I just wanna grow stuff now...anything lol.

I'll post updates in a day or two with some pics.

Thank you!

*junk

[sergentjunk]

Update:

Well seeing as how I've found three credible sources that are telling me that this far into flowering the ppm feeding should be between 800 and 1k, I'm going with that for now. Essentially hitting them with nutes and calmag, then flushing with low PPM and clearex, repeat, repeat...per the feeding schedules I have found for coco.
So I tried the feeding last night when the light came and 1kPPM, and I'll flush tonight. I checked this morning before the light went off and they(including the problem plant) looked pretty good.

I'll see how it goes and update with some pics. Coco is an interesting grow.

*junk

[sergentjunk]

The good: These plants are doing great now.

4 weeks into flowering.

I found a solid feeding regimen to stick by and it seems to be going good. Considering my first grow, I'm extremely happy with these two fine ladies. I have no idea the strain, wish I could find out somehow. In WeedHound's hydro grow guide, it is recommended that Sweet and Hydroplex is used. I am not using any of those two now, but will pick up them up next week.

Thanks again for everyone's help...most appreciated.
Next post is the problem plant.


*junk

[sergentjunk]

The not so bad, but better than it was:

The bitch of the bunch. She's been a work in progress but I think I have her figured out. There are still a few leaves not doing so well, but I'm thinking it's a remainder of the pre-existing issues due to my ignorance. Not that I'm not ignorant anymore LOL, just a bit more educated. I've done a few tests with her, one of them being skipping a day of watering. She didn't like it...not one bit, and she let me know. She is VERY expressive. I think she will be saved and at least yield a couple yummy nugs.

I am solely using RO water now BTW.

For the curious...I believe this was a culmination of a few problems: nut lock out due to poor PH(I think that's where it all started), probably some mag def after starting distilled water(now using RO water), etc. Treating coco like a soil grow...only watering a few times a week, giving the administered nutes time to harden and destroy some roots, also contributing to the lock out?? Point being is there was a myriad of issues going on. She's cleaning up though, flowering, and producing some noticeable trichs. Nothing close to the other two, but she IS producing.

The 3rd pic was how the problems were starting,,,then progressing to look like the other damaged leaves. Damage seems to have subsided.

To me, comparing these pics (taken 7-8-09) to the previous set (taken 6-30-09), both of this plant and the previous post...there seems to me to be some good overall improvement.

*junk

[phatsesh101]

looks good, some times i get a female that wont conform to my program and then i just put her out to flower and she dont come back

[sergentjunk]

Damn Phat...that's a bad deal. I'm not sure if she will yield much at all, if anything. What I'm most interested in (other than using her to learn from) is the seeds. I left the male in long enough to blow his nut, so they will all produce seeds I'm sure. But she is from a different strain I think....so that's my major motive in her.

*junk

[Rusty Trichome]

Patience. You will lose some of the yield because of the seeds, (most of the yield) and it takes about 4 to 5 weeks minimum for seed to become viable.

[sergentjunk]

Patience. You will lose some of the yield because of the seeds, (most of the yield) and it takes about 4 to 5 weeks minimum for seed to become viable.

Thanks for the tip Rusty! They're into their fourth week now, and I'm sure there's another four to go...at least. I'm not too concerned about the yield other than seeds. The two good plants will do me fine...at least long enough to get through the next grow. It's all personal and I'm not a heavy smoker. I prefer quality over quantity, they seem to be very nice quality...at least better than I used to purchase. LOL...."Used to purchase", that's great. These are actually bag seeds out of some VERY nice stuff that I was lucky to get my hands on, and lucky enough to have seeds.

Thanks again!

*junk

[Rusty Trichome]

Pretty cool, huh?

When breeding, best to keep track of what you crossed, label and store different crosses seperatly, note which pheno was best and breed those, to encourage those traits on the next seed run. Quality genetics will generally have less of a variation due to back-crossing.

Some seeds may be less developed depending on how long the residual pollen (throughout the growroom) lasted after intended pollination. (weeks?)

Got a strain name you can be proud of picked-out? (bagseed is taken, I think)

[phatsesh101]

i am backing up rusty on the keeping of a detailed breed log one for just urself or us if you want to share :thumbsup:

breeding is funny you must watch for acclimatization and the degrading of potency all sorts of stuff but its fun get a book

now im doing a breed check it out. got alot of my info from marijuana botany robert clark

[sergentjunk]

Pretty cool, huh?

Very.

Good infor Rusty and Phat. Thanks! Yes I'm keeping logs of everything and the breeding. I'm pretty sure the male and the two good fems came out of the same bag, but the one fem in question is from a different batch....hence the cross. I have no idea what strain they originally claimed to come from, so the only way I can keep track is to name the strains by the people I got them from LOL. Until I come up with my own as Rusty suggested, however...I have no dreams of this being an original strain. I'm sure the product of these two strains is out there somewhere...I by no means have an original product.

But I'll name it for the hell of it(if it's worth naming by the time the potential seeds grow), and yes...I would love to share all the info here with everyone! So when these are done, and if there are seeds...I will keep a detailed grow log for everyone to see what happens with this breeding. I will be keeping a detailed log next time anyway...but newly crossed seeds should be a fun experiment. Look for something in another month and a half or two months from me as far as a grow log goes. That should give these enough time to fully mature and get my room ready for another batch.

Thanks for the input! I like it here.

*junk

[Rusty Trichome]

If you crossed it yourself, you have an original strain...and can name it as you see fit. It's not like you'll be selling them retail and need to worry about copyright infringement.

Here's a couple to get those creative juices flowing...
Grab Bag (bagseed)
Double Bagger (crossed bagseed)
Sergent Freebie
Drill Sergent
First Sergent (your first successful seed run)
Delta Force (force-femmed)
"INCOMING" (creeper weed that hits you like an incoming RPG)
Seperation Anxiety (where the hell did my key's go...?)
Premature Discharge (autoflower traits)
Friendly Fire (mellow Sativa)

Hmm...seems I've gone a tad overboard, but you get the idea, lol. :thumbsup:

[sergentjunk]

LOL...not overboard at all Rusty. I liked those. The issue you brought before about "viable seeds" might be an issue. She's not flowering well at all and the seeds, if indeed that's what they are, are still as small as they were the first day I saw them. While the damage as almost all subsided...I think she's retarded...literally. She has grown only three fingered leaves, the calyx's are deformed, and just generally growing VERY strangely. Obviously sativa dominant, and was obviously very stressed early on...it seems to the point of non recovery. But I'm gonna let her fly, will require a longer flower cycle than the others if anything is going to be produced. She definitely has different requirements than the other two that I am accomodating...so it's up to her.

Other than that, the other two are looking great blooming into very fat plants. Bottom leaves are starting to lighten to a subtle yellow, working it's way up indicating the drop in nitrogen. The colas are about 2" in diameter, and there are smaller nuggets that are filling out nicely turning into little "mini" colas. Nice fat calyx's all the way around, very hairy, and very frosty. Good stuff.

I'll update pics in a few days so we can compare the progression over the past few weeks.

Thanks again!

*junk