Do Not Be Fooled or Lied To by The Dispensaries in Colorado

[Tritech420]

Good day all, I hope all here read the MMJ-News on a monthly basis. As a registered patient/caregiver/dispensary owner I want to let you know that several other dispensaries in this wonderful state have been out right lying to thier perspective patients. I have called several and I get this response, "you must assign us as your caregiver, and you may only obtain meds from us." This is an out right lie!!!!!!! Check out the 2009 Colorado Patients" Campaign @ [url=http://www.cannabisunivercity.webs.com/09copatientscampaign.htm]
as a registered Colorado MMJ patient has the right to obtain meds from any source no matter who your caregiver is!!!! It is time patients stand up and make the dispenaries realize that they will not survive without us, take away the membership fees, the outragous prices for meds, and quit lying to us!!!!!! A reputable dispensary will not require you to sign a contract, pay a membership fee, and will also show true compassion for thier patients by charging them according to thier income, not the dispensaries profit margin, in reality it only cost 400.00 to grow a pound of pot, so why are they charging 400.00 an ounce to folks on SSI or SS-DI? Get involved and speak out!!!!

[colagal]

Good day all, I hope all here read the MMJ-News on a monthly basis. As a registered patient/caregiver/dispensary owner I want to let you know that several other dispensaries in this wonderful state have been out right lying to thier perspective patients. I have called several and I get this response, "you must assign us as your caregiver, and you may only obtain meds from us." This is an out right lie!!!!!!! Check out the 2009 Colorado Patients" Campaign @ [url=http://www.cannabisunivercity.webs.com/09copatientscampaign.htm]
as a registered Colorado MMJ patient has the right to obtain meds from any source no matter who your caregiver is!!!! It is time patients stand up and make the dispenaries realize that they will not survive without us, take away the membership fees, the outragous prices for meds, and quit lying to us!!!!!! A reputable dispensary will not require you to sign a contract, pay a membership fee, and will also show true compassion for thier patients by charging them according to thier income, not the dispensaries profit margin, in reality it only cost 400.00 to grow a pound of pot, so why are they charging 400.00 an ounce to folks on SSI or SS-DI? Get involved and speak out!!!!

FYI - There is a point of law to contend with:

(4) (a) A patient may engage in the medical use of marijuana, with no more marijuana than is medically necessary to address a debilitating medical condition. A patient's medical use of marijuana, within the following limits, is lawful:

(I) No more than two ounces of a usable form of marijuana; and

(II) No more than six marijuana plants, with three or fewer being mature, flowering plants that are producing a usable form of marijuana.

(b) For quantities of marijuana in excess of these amounts, a patient or his or her primary care-giver may raise as an affirmative defense to charges of violation of state law that such greater amounts were medically necessary to address the patient's debilitating medical condition.

Consequently (the way I understand it), a caregiver or patient can only grow the amounts that are medically necessary, which usually means only two ounces, etc. However, the law is not clear on how often this medically necessary amount can be in the patients' possession, i.e., every day, every month...?? I am guessing it means how often the patient needs it to adequately address the medical problem? Consequently, in order for us, for example, to legally grow more medical marijuana than we have permission to do so, would require us to be named as caregiver for those registered patients. For us to sell to a registered patient who has not given us legal permission (caregiver-ship) to do so would be unlawful - therein lies the rub: A registered patient can buy from any source, but a grower cannot legally grow for any registered patient without being that patient's caregiver.

Unfortunately, this is a confusing (not user friendly) law both for the patient and caregiver - a chicken and egg dilemma at best, and following the rules is problematic. So, unless the law is clarified (instead of muddied by the state's latest amendment regarding caregivers), and unified with federal law, the interpretation/implementation is wide open, inconsistent, frustrating and potentially fraught with undesired legal consequences.

Fortunately for us, our first two registered patients had faith in our ability to provide them with a medicinally and cost effective product, and named us as their caregiver. And now, five months later, their faith in us has been rewarded.

[Tritech420]

Thanks COLAGAL for the FYI, I understand how many interpret the law and it is very vague. I have been on this program since it was enacted and was patient 35 in the beginning. I have grown for years and as soon as I was accepted with the registry I immediately obtained one of the top medical marijuana lawyers in the state and have worked and obtained advice from Sensible Colorado and my local NORML chapter. I agree with you on the point of the law being very unclear and inconsistent, however what I see going on is dispensaries using the plant numbers of patients to provide for other patients in the form of excess from the original six plants. I have witnessed first hand caregivers growing for 5 patients, producing 4 plus pounds every 60 days with the alloted 15 plants in flower. Approximately 1 pound goes to the original 5 patients at the rate of 2 ounces per month and at a cost of 300.00 to 500.00 per ounce, then the 3 pound balance is sold to other patients at the same cost rate. On the low end this comes out to 44,800.00 every 60 days. This is basically taking advantage of the patients. The other point I was trying to make is that again first hand I have heard and seen this: dispensaries lying to patients about the caregiver situation and basically telling them they have to assign the dispensary as their caregiver and then they make them sign a contract basically stating they may only obtain meds from them and as you said a patient may acquire meds from anywhere. Not to mention the membership fee, what is that all about? I am all for free enterprise and living in America gives us that right, but is it fair to profit from the misery of others, is it fair to charge someone who only gets a 750.00 monthly check 400.00 for an ounce of meds that helps them and keeps them from more harmful drugs? Not only is this a legal issue but a moral issue as well. Thanks Again for your input and I do agree with you on more regulation, but why do we need the government to do something we as caregivers/patients/dispensaries could handle ourselves with a little more honesty and a lot less greed.

[phatsesh101]

it cost more than 400 dollars to grow a pound of top shelf dude that barely covers electric let alone time, nutes,etc. and my time and ability to grow top shelf considering most people cant, constitutes a higher pay scale not tomention the constant worry of being robbed shot killed or thrown in prison for 20 years, my massages needed for stress

have you ever been victim in a home invasion?

if you dont like it grow your own and you deal with the bs that comes along with growing and paying taxes on what you grow.

maybe you should see what really goes into it and not what you see on tv bub

if you can grow six plants, and go to 3 collectives then your essentially growing 18 plants and breaking the law in the eyes of DEA. but all of the colectives need to be raided simutaineusly to prove your beyond your limit and everyone goes to jail but thats in cali.

[colagal]

Thanks COLAGAL for the FYI, I understand how many interpret the law and it is very vague. I have been on this program since it was enacted and was patient 35 in the beginning. I have grown for years and as soon as I was accepted with the registry I immediately obtained one of the top medical marijuana lawyers in the state and have worked and obtained advice from Sensible Colorado and my local NORML chapter. I agree with you on the point of the law being very unclear and inconsistent, however what I see going on is dispensaries using the plant numbers of patients to provide for other patients in the form of excess from the original six plants. I have witnessed first hand caregivers growing for 5 patients, producing 4 plus pounds every 60 days with the alloted 15 plants in flower. Approximately 1 pound goes to the original 5 patients at the rate of 2 ounces per month and at a cost of 300.00 to 500.00 per ounce, then the 3 pound balance is sold to other patients at the same cost rate. On the low end this comes out to 44,800.00 every 60 days. This is basically taking advantage of the patients. The other point I was trying to make is that again first hand I have heard and seen this: dispensaries lying to patients about the caregiver situation and basically telling them they have to assign the dispensary as their caregiver and then they make them sign a contract basically stating they may only obtain meds from them and as you said a patient may acquire meds from anywhere. Not to mention the membership fee, what is that all about? I am all for free enterprise and living in America gives us that right, but is it fair to profit from the misery of others, is it fair to charge someone who only gets a 750.00 monthly check 400.00 for an ounce of meds that helps them and keeps them from more harmful drugs? Not only is this a legal issue but a moral issue as well. Thanks Again for your input and I do agree with you on more regulation, but why do we need the government to do something we as caregivers/patients/dispensaries could handle ourselves with a little more honesty and a lot less greed.

Yes, health care is expensive, and the people operating our health care system profit from the misery (ailments) of others, and certainly some people take advantage. That is the unfortunate reality for those who have a hard time affording decent health care. It is a profit based system...for the most part.

Anyway, if, for example, the new amendment limits caregiver-ships to 5, those selling their excess to others would be in violation of the law, right? Wouldn't that expose these dispensaries to a visit from law enforcement once they got on their radar?...which shouldn't be too difficult. So these dispensaries probably see themselves as taking a big risk for others in need, which, I guess, they want to be compensated for - some more than others, and like you say, some will do so in unscrupulous ways...

Are you able to grow for yourself? I know we have spent more than $3,000 to grow medical grade product for our registered patients. We are a long ways from breaking even, but we need to eventually.

[Tritech420]

it cost more than 400 dollars to grow a pound of top shelf dude that barely covers electric let alone time, nutes,etc. and my time and ability to grow top shelf considering most people cant, constitutes a higher pay scale not tomention the constant worry of being robbed shot killed or thrown in prison for 20 years, my massages needed for stress

have you ever been victim in a home invasion?

if you dont like it grow your own and you deal with the bs that comes along with growing and paying taxes on what you grow.

maybe you should see what really goes into it and not what you see on tv bub

if you can grow six plants, and go to 3 collectives then your essentially growing 18 plants and breaking the law in the eyes of DEA. but all of the colectives need to be raided simutaineusly to prove your beyond your limit and everyone goes to jail but thats in cali.

First thing is I do not watch T.V.
Second is I have to tight of security to worry about home invasion
Third is if you would of took time to read the whole post and put aside your arrogant anger issues you would not have even asked those questions, you really should try to learn more about the knowledge and occupation of those you so arrogantly verbally attack, most of all I enjoy what I do and that in itself makes it the ultimate job, if you are so stressed then you should find another line of work.

[VapedG13]

Dude why even bother with despensaries??? Mabey for the first 3-4 months of your new Med script.

You can order seeds and grow your own then you will never have to worry about what someone is going to charge you ...You will also know how the plant was grown... what ferts where used and what chemicals if any were used.....Nothing better than getting a headache from weed you just purchased because the Grower didnt flush the plants

$400 doesnt even cover 1 month of my electric bill....my dirt cost $40 a bail and I use 3 bails for a crop...my ferts cost $100 per crop...on average per crop I would say $1000-1200 or $300-400 per month is the cost to produce my meds

[Tritech420]

Dude why even bother with despensaries??? Mabey for the first 3-4 months of your new Med script.

You can order seeds and grow your own then you will never have to worry about what someone is going to charge you ...You will also know how the plant was grown... what ferts where used and what chemicals if any were used.....Nothing better than getting a headache from weed you just purchased because the Grower didnt flush the plants

$400 doesnt even cover 1 month of my electric bill....my dirt cost $40 a bail and I use 3 bails for a crop...my ferts cost $100 per crop...on average per crop I would say $1000-1200 or $300-400 per month is the cost to produce my meds

It is obvious that no one truly reads the entire post. I thought I was clear when I mentioned I am a patient/caregiver/dispensary owner so it would be obvious I grow, not only for myself but 9 other patients as well. I grow medical grade bud and have been growing for several years. Not that this matters as it is not rocket science with the right genetics. I grow my allowed plants of 60, 30 veg and 30 flower, my grow costs total 2400.00 per cycle. I am not going to get in to the details due to security issues but I still stick with it only costs about 400.00 to grow a lb of medical grade bud.

[VapedG13]

Your right man.... MMJ patients can survive really good WITHOUT co-ops/deispensaries.....they are there for the people who cant wont or dont know how to grow there own.

I know alot of MMJ people here that grow there own......its better to be self sufficient than dependent.

[psychodelic]

it cost more than 400 dollars to grow a pound of top shelf dude that barely covers electric let alone time, nutes,etc. and my time and ability to grow top shelf considering most people cant, constitutes a higher pay scale not tomention the constant worry of being robbed shot killed or thrown in prison for 20 years, my massages needed for stress

have you ever been victim in a home invasion?

if you dont like it grow your own and you deal with the bs that comes along with growing and paying taxes on what you grow.

maybe you should see what really goes into it and not what you see on tv bub

if you can grow six plants, and go to 3 collectives then your essentially growing 18 plants and breaking the law in the eyes of DEA. but all of the colectives need to be raided simutaineusly to prove your beyond your limit and everyone goes to jail but thats in cali.

I feel like you are defending yourself as a dealer, not a MMJ Dispensary business. If you worked at a MMJ dispensary, I might put more stock in your comment. But the OP clearly stated that their issue is with the underhanded business practices of the MMJ dispensaries in Colorado. With a prescription, it should be the same as getting any other prescription filled: legal, hassle-free (for the most part), and affordable. The OP is stating that the Colorado dispensaries are not allowing this to happen, which is enraging.

I guess I don't understand why your response is to attack the OP? It has nothing to do with you or your personal illegal home-grows. This thread is about the legal Colorado dispensaries. Why even comment? You can't compare MMJ dispensary costs-of-operation to your personal drug-dealing operation.

[Tritech420]

Finally someone who reads the entire message-kuddos man.

[phatsesh101]

i used to grow for a collective in socal until the local leo and dea kicked in my door despite TOP LINE SECURITY invade my home. take my meds ROBERRY, take me to jail KIDDNAPPING, just to let me go free after they broke all my shit and found me within guidelines. and lawyer fees and its fucked up shit. now not to mention the cost of a grow sight cause of a moratorium saying i can only grow in industrial areas so now there is rent.

sorry ur in colorado but the dea dont care, and here in cali you can go to more than one dispensary or colloective (for legal purposes) but if they raid 3 different places that have your rec on file 2 of those places are considered illigetimet and theyre are illegaly growing your meds and face prosecution. Not that youll get prosecuted but they will make theyre money off of holding u just to let u go (dry runs)

I have been on the front of this medical shit since day one. Right now we, our local mapp is funding legal costs for lawyers to fight for collectives in san bernardino and riverside counties.

sorry if i came off brash but im sorry of people complaining about the costs of meds, wait til pfizer catches on and charges 30 a gram like for my marinol pill which i can make at home for 5$ each. dont get much shit from the disp. around here ther are over 20 in the town i live in. and 20 on the street i lived on in hollywood.

[phatsesh101]

sorry our laws are a diff here in cali and if i was running an illegal grow id be rich. not homeless

i do agree that prices are a lil high but theres alot to consider before you throw prices out, like strain for instance ppp is maybe 400 a pound, but take for instance something that dont bud like a ppp. my #1 patient fave a cali kush blend only hits 1-2 oz per 3 ft a month veg and two flower is 400 in electric and can maybe fit six under a 1000w so theres 6-12 oz only for 400 so low ball it cause its hott this year and i dont crank up ac to add to my yeild and i get 6 oz from my 400. my Lb would cost just short of 1200, 2 oz for me. that dont include sundries, testing equip, supplies, medium on that is an easy 40-80. good quality nutes another 60 the cost of light bulbs 180/4 waps per light per year adds up quik.

when a collective is ran as a business, to keep records is a legal necessity. then you come to realize what everything cost and to keep good records requires an accounant (that costs) lawyers to cover your ass, cause its not if but when it will need to be covered (more overhead) all the while this hiring creates jobs and contributes tax dollars cause i cant do everything nor am i a lawyer or accountant. and these just scratch the surface.

what i get in a nutshell is that you sell your meds for 200 dollars a half LB (cali limit) and you still cant get patients to sign up with your collective instead of others despite their having much higher prices. and in your case y would it matter unless you were profiting.

[kodesh]

... With a prescription, it should be the same as getting any other prescription filled: legal, hassle-free (for the most part), and affordable. The OP is stating that the Colorado dispensaries are not allowing this to happen, which is enraging.


Bingo!

It really comes down to simple greed. There are a huge influx of new medical patients. I was at the recent Board of Health hearing and they are estimating 15k+ registered by the end of the year. There were about 4k at the end of last year. I don't think the dispensaries were ready for the influx of patients, they ran out of meds and had to go shop wholesale (typically, what, $4k/lb lately?). If they are selling at what I consider street/standard price of $300/oz (correct me here? I'm in the Boulder/Denver/Foco areas), their profit margins just got a lot slimmer than they were used to on the meds they grew themselves.

I'm generalizing here based on my experiences with 3 dispensaries and 2 delivery services, I realize it's not an accurate representation of all caregivers and dispensaries in the state. But my experience has been that as the dispensaries ran out of meds, they either lowered the quality of medication they offered (several times I received seedy/leafy or harsh or mouldy!! meds), or they offer high quality meds at ridiculous prices - for example, I absolutely love Patient's Choice for their clean professional relaxed atmosphere, but $65 for 1/8th is robbery imo.

Now I think you could argue it either way as to which is better for patients, dispensaries raising prices with the market to serve more patients, or should they be turning new patients away so they can afford to supply meds to their existing patients at a reasonable price?

Personally I think part of their obligation as a caregiver is ensure that they can deliver /consistently/ good quality meds at a price the patient can afford, even if it means turning away new business.

[colagal]

Another FYI - as I try to understand the state's interpretation of caregivers and dispensaries, the following was sent to me from the director of the state registrar:

One more question: if a registered patient's caregiver does not have (for whatever reason) available medical marijuana when the patient needs it, can the patient go to a dispensary or grower to obtain the medical marijuana, even though the dispensary or grower is not that patient's primary caregiver? Or does the patient need to wait until the primary caregiver is able to produce what he/she needs? Thanks again.

The response: My understanding is that most dispensaries are requiring that they be listed as the patient's primary care-giver before providing services. You may wish to check with any dispensaries in your area regarding their specific requirements.

It is true that registered patients can buy from any source; however, in order for a dispensary to be legal, it has to have enough caregiver-ships to cover the amount of product they have on hand. In the event the dispensary has extra meds that the patient doesn't use (greater than the allotted 2 ounces, etc., per patient), then it could sell to just registered patients without them naming that dispensary as a primay caregiver. Some dispensaries do this, some don't.

[iusemm]

It is time patients stand up and make the dispenaries realize that they will not survive without us, take away the membership fees, the outragous prices for meds. A reputable dispensary...will also show true compassion for thier patients by charging them according to thier income, not the dispensaries profit margin, in reality it only cost 400.00 to grow a pound of pot, so why are they charging 400.00 an ounce to folks on SSI or SS-DI? Get involved and speak out!!!!

Thank You!! I have been a patient dependant on 'caregivers' since the programs inception. I took out cash advances to pay for my medicine - I think it's crazy to be charging a Patient $400 - we shouldn't be paying street prices. What is the point of appointing someone caregiver?

[GratefulMeds]

The response: My understanding is that most dispensaries are requiring that they be listed as the patient's primary care-giver before providing services. You may wish to check with any dispensaries in your area regarding their specific requirements.

It is true that registered patients can buy from any source; however, in order for a dispensary to be legal, it has to have enough caregiver-ships to cover the amount of product they have on hand. In the event the dispensary has extra meds that the patient doesn't use (greater than the allotted 2 ounces, etc., per patient), then it could sell to just registered patients without them naming that dispensary as a primay caregiver. Some dispensaries do this, some don't.

patients can buy from any source fellow patients, dispensaries or dealers, as long as you have your permit you are protected under the constitution. Contact Sensible Colorado if you want the real facts on Medical Marijuana

[gangagirl]

you are so right

[greenimp]

My biggest problem with all of this is that if someone is acting as a caregiver and growing MMJ then the ENTIRE crop better find its way to the dispensary/patients. Growers out there that are not doing this are taking advantage of the law and the patient. If any part of a crop finds it way to secondary market, and we all know it does, then the grower is breaking the law and the social contract with the patients that allow them to operate.

If I had any say in it I would require all growers to document their crop with either the CO agriculture department, or at least some authority. That and any grow operation should be subjected to OCHA and any other state authorities out there. Some of the operations I have seen have had construction/wireing issues that violate so many building codes its not funny.

Grow operations need to be treated like any other manufacturing operation out there. Period. No exceptions. You guys want this to last, you better do things 100% above board. I'm not saying everyone is at fault, but we all know that the majority of growers are not 100% above board.

[neversummer]

My biggest problem with all of this is that if someone is acting as a caregiver and growing MMJ then the ENTIRE crop better find its way to the dispensary/patients. Growers out there that are not doing this are taking advantage of the law and the patient. If any part of a crop finds it way to secondary market, and we all know it does, then the grower is breaking the law and the social contract with the patients that allow them to operate.

If I had any say in it I would require all growers to document their crop with either the CO agriculture department, or at least some authority. That and any grow operation should be subjected to OCHA and any other state authorities out there. Some of the operations I have seen have had construction/wireing issues that violate so many building codes its not funny.

Grow operations need to be treated like any other manufacturing operation out there. Period. No exceptions. You guys want this to last, you better do things 100% above board. I'm not saying everyone is at fault, but we all know that the majority of growers are not 100% above board.

I cant believe you actually believe this! There are so many people without cards that still need medecine. Not everyone has $300 to get a card, or even knows how to get one. Some people are happy getting their medecine the same way they have for years. Most of these dispenseries are charging more than street prices anyway. What about people that dont have medical records, or maybe their condition is considered treatable by medical marijuana according to CO?

You say growers should be 100 percent above board, but that is ridiculous. All these growers have been breaking the law for years, and according to the federal government, they still are. Grow rooms are not built according to codes, you trip me out. This medical thing is just a loop hole that people have worked years for, and its just one more step to get marijuana legalized. Everyone deserves good medecine, not just people lucky enough to have a card.

According to federal government, weed is still illegal, even if you have a medical card. So everyone is still breaking the law. We need less laws and regulations, not more. Anyone should be able to grow as much weed as they want, and sell to whoever they want, for whatever price they want. That is the American Dream.

And this stuff about charging people according to income is ridiculous. What is this? Socialized weed. Its no one elses buisness how much money I make, and it surely shouldnt determine how much i pay for medecine. What is the point of working hard to make more money, if you have to pay more taxes, and pay more for everything?

[greenimp]

That attitude is exactly what will cause the state to try and regulate out the "loop hole". If growers keep the mind set that what they are doing is "illegal" how do you expect the general public to come to accept it?

If you want to grow and sell to dispensary, act like a business. If you want to sell to the secondary market, do it, and take your chances. Don't do both. You compromise the system when you do.

Don't try and use economic arguments as to why you need to sell some of your crop on secondary markets either. If you clients can afford to buy fro you there they can find a legitimate dispensary to purchase from. Unless you are just giving it away to people, but I doubt that...

Just because until now everything has been done on the sly, doesn't mean it should continue that way.

[palerider7777]

Thanks COLAGAL for the FYI, I understand how many interpret the law and it is very vague. I have been on this program since it was enacted and was patient 35 in the beginning. I have grown for years and as soon as I was accepted with the registry I immediately obtained one of the top medical marijuana lawyers in the state and have worked and obtained advice from Sensible Colorado and my local NORML chapter. I agree with you on the point of the law being very unclear and inconsistent, however what I see going on is dispensaries using the plant numbers of patients to provide for other patients in the form of excess from the original six plants. I have witnessed first hand caregivers growing for 5 patients, producing 4 plus pounds every 60 days with the alloted 15 plants in flower. Approximately 1 pound goes to the original 5 patients at the rate of 2 ounces per month and at a cost of 300.00 to 500.00 per ounce, then the 3 pound balance is sold to other patients at the same cost rate. On the low end this comes out to 44,800.00 every 60 days. This is basically taking advantage of the patients. The other point I was trying to make is that again first hand I have heard and seen this: dispensaries lying to patients about the caregiver situation and basically telling them they have to assign the dispensary as their caregiver and then they make them sign a contract basically stating they may only obtain meds from them and as you said a patient may acquire meds from anywhere. Not to mention the membership fee, what is that all about? I am all for free enterprise and living in America gives us that right, but is it fair to profit from the misery of others, is it fair to charge someone who only gets a 750.00 monthly check 400.00 for an ounce of meds that helps them and keeps them from more harmful drugs? Not only is this a legal issue but a moral issue as well. Thanks Again for your input and I do agree with you on more regulation, but why do we need the government to do something we as caregivers/patients/dispensaries could handle ourselves with a little more honesty and a lot less greed.

is it fair for any other biz or gov to charge what they charge to people that only make this or that? so what your saying is if u go down to the store to buy say bread because u only make 750 u should'nt have to pay the 2$ like everyone else but say 75 cents? say u to to walgreens cause your sick and the meds were 50 and u go to them and say hey i only make 750 a mo u think they will give it to u for 25?they will say u have ins?i don't see you going to any other stores bitching about what u make and u need a discount?

[palerider7777]

I cant believe you actually believe this! There are so many people without cards that still need medecine. Not everyone has $300 to get a card, or even knows how to get one. Some people are happy getting their medecine the same way they have for years. Most of these dispenseries are charging more than street prices anyway. What about people that dont have medical records, or maybe their condition is considered treatable by medical marijuana according to CO?

You say growers should be 100 percent above board, but that is ridiculous. All these growers have been breaking the law for years, and according to the federal government, they still are. Grow rooms are not built according to codes, you trip me out. This medical thing is just a loop hole that people have worked years for, and its just one more step to get marijuana legalized. Everyone deserves good medecine, not just people lucky enough to have a card.

According to federal government, weed is still illegal, even if you have a medical card. So everyone is still breaking the law. We need less laws and regulations, not more. Anyone should be able to grow as much weed as they want, and sell to whoever they want, for whatever price they want. That is the American Dream.

And this stuff about charging people according to income is ridiculous. What is this? Socialized weed. Its no one elses buisness how much money I make, and it surely shouldnt determine how much i pay for medecine. What is the point of working hard to make more money, if you have to pay more taxes, and pay more for everything?

this i can agree 100% peeps act as if because we call it compassion that it means everything is for free or next to nothing.they don't even think or care to think about what the grower still have to put up with to grow.and the guy talking about we need more laws and the state should be able to come into your house and ck up on u bs i say lmao.U know what would happen then?? smart guy u smart guy u??

growers would say fuck this were going back underground and u can pay the fucking street prices and have to put up with shady dealings and being shorted when we feel like it or over charge u next time cause u bitched about price this time. see how that works?? wow everyone wants something for nothing all the time wow.:stoned::thumbsup:

[palerider7777]

That attitude is exactly what will cause the state to try and regulate out the "loop hole". If growers keep the mind set that what they are doing is "illegal" how do you expect the general public to come to accept it?

If you want to grow and sell to dispensary, act like a business. If you want to sell to the secondary market, do it, and take your chances. Don't do both. You compromise the system when you do.

Don't try and use economic arguments as to why you need to sell some of your crop on secondary markets either. If you clients can afford to buy fro you there they can find a legitimate dispensary to purchase from. Unless you are just giving it away to people, but I doubt that...

Just because until now everything has been done on the sly, doesn't mean it should continue that way.

your in a dream world dude u need to sit back and think a min the growers have to think like that if not they will get pinched even tho it's "legal" the leo still have a hard on for us.U ever read the news? besides that a bigger issue is robbers if the word gets out that "hey look"over there is a grow house it would be a matter of time that someone will want to rob it.

this is'nt big pharm were not backed by anyone it's our own necks out on the line not yours.were not backed by big gov and have all the goodies and gov to protect us.we have to worry bout them and the peeps on the street.get it correct.

[ViridisWellness]

Good day all, I hope all here read the MMJ-News on a monthly basis. As a registered patient/caregiver/dispensary owner I want to let you know that several other dispensaries in this wonderful state have been out right lying to thier perspective patients. I have called several and I get this response, "you must assign us as your caregiver, and you may only obtain meds from us." This is an out right lie!!!!!!! Check out the 2009 Colorado Patients" Campaign @ [url=http://www.cannabisunivercity.webs.com/09copatientscampaign.htm]
as a registered Colorado MMJ patient has the right to obtain meds from any source no matter who your caregiver is!!!! It is time patients stand up and make the dispenaries realize that they will not survive without us, take away the membership fees, the outragous prices for meds, and quit lying to us!!!!!! A reputable dispensary will not require you to sign a contract, pay a membership fee, and will also show true compassion for thier patients by charging them according to thier income, not the dispensaries profit margin, in reality it only cost 400.00 to grow a pound of pot, so why are they charging 400.00 an ounce to folks on SSI or SS-DI? Get involved and speak out!!!!

While I agree with you that a patient should have the right to go wherever they want for their "caregiver" services, I completely disagree with your analysis here, and I'll begin with this:

1) Your link is broken, but I went on Cannabis U's site and checked out the Patient Campaign. This looks to be an effort within the community (and a good one I think) to try and get the state to accept multiple caregiver nominations per patient. It's what they want the law to be, not necessarily what it is.

From A-20:
â??A patient who has not designated a primary caregiver at the time of application may do so in writing at any time during the effective period of the registry identification card, and the primary caregiver may act in this capacity after such designation.â?�

2) Just because the language in Amendment 20 implicitly gives a patient the option of not nominating caregiver, that is by no means the same as saying that a) they can buy from any dispensary, and b) the dispensary can sell to any patient that comes strolling to their door. Reading the next section from A-20 I think helps explain why I think that's not a smart idea:

(2) (a) â?? â?¦ a patient or primary care-giver charged with a violation of the state's criminal laws related to the patient's medical use of marijuana will be deemed to have established an affirmative defense to such allegation where:

(III) The patient and his or her primary care-giver were collectively in possession of amounts of marijuana only as permitted under this section.â?�

This language here doesnâ??t help the dispensaries that are taking the â??de facto/ad hoc caregiverâ?� argument. Primary doesnâ??t seem synonymous with ad hoc or de facto to me. It seems pretty clear that the spirit of the law is that either a) as a patient, you grow your own, or b) you assign those rights to a caregiver.

But if some non-patient walks into your door and you sell to them, well, you're selling one of your patient's product aren't you? That's the bottom line. You aren't suddenly growing on the spot for this stranger. You're dipping into your actual patient's products, to which they're legally entitled.

So to say that, because Amendment 20 doesnâ??t force you to choose a caregiver, you therefore can buy from anyone seems like total wishful thinking. It's a big jump, and one in which you may eventually take a big fall for. A safer interpretation would be to assume that the A-20 drafters meant that, if you donâ??t nominate a caregiver, youâ??re therefore growing for yourself. No mention of Walgreens is included in A-20, as much as we would like it.

Again, I support this and hope that patients and caregiver end up explicitly receiving this option. But it's not cool coming on here and labeling other dispensary owners liars about it. They're just being safer than you are - Mr. Dispensary Owner. Some could reasonably say that you have a not so altruistic interest in taking such a righteous stand.

Anyway, good luck, and remember - it's usually the fastest car on the highway that gets pulled over.

[palerider7777]

While I agree with you that a patient should have the right to go wherever they want for their "caregiver" services, I completely disagree with your analysis here, and I'll begin with this:

1) Your link is broken, but I went on Cannabis U's site and checked out the Patient Campaign. This looks to be an effort within the community (and a good one I think) to try and get the state to accept multiple caregiver nominations per patient. It's what they want the law to be, not necessarily what it is.

From A-20:
â??A patient who has not designated a primary caregiver at the time of application may do so in writing at any time during the effective period of the registry identification card, and the primary caregiver may act in this capacity after such designation.â?�

2) Just because the language in Amendment 20 implicitly gives a patient the option of not nominating caregiver, that is by no means the same as saying that a) they can buy from any dispensary, and b) the dispensary can sell to any patient that comes strolling to their door. Reading the next section from A-20 I think helps explain why I think that's not a smart idea:

(2) (a) â?? â?¦ a patient or primary care-giver charged with a violation of the state's criminal laws related to the patient's medical use of marijuana will be deemed to have established an affirmative defense to such allegation where:

(III) The patient and his or her primary care-giver were collectively in possession of amounts of marijuana only as permitted under this section.â?�

This language here doesnâ??t help the dispensaries that are taking the â??de facto/ad hoc caregiverâ?� argument. Primary doesnâ??t seem synonymous with ad hoc or de facto to me. It seems pretty clear that the spirit of the law is that either a) as a patient, you grow your own, or b) you assign those rights to a caregiver.

But if some non-patient walks into your door and you sell to them, well, you're selling one of your patient's product aren't you? That's the bottom line. You aren't suddenly growing on the spot for this stranger. You're dipping into your actual patient's products, to which they're legally entitled.

So to say that, because Amendment 20 doesnâ??t force you to choose a caregiver, you therefore can buy from anyone seems like total wishful thinking. It's a big jump, and one in which you may eventually take a big fall for. A safer interpretation would be to assume that the A-20 drafters meant that, if you donâ??t nominate a caregiver, youâ??re therefore growing for yourself. No mention of Walgreens is included in A-20, as much as we would like it.

Again, I support this and hope that patients and caregiver end up explicitly receiving this option. But it's not cool coming on here and labeling other dispensary owners liars about it. They're just being safer than you are - Mr. Dispensary Owner. Some could reasonably say that you have a not so altruistic interest in taking such a righteous stand.

Anyway, good luck, and remember - it's usually the fastest car on the highway that gets pulled over.

if a patient can get it anywhere like it says in the law pretty much and your growing for a patient that says they only want 2 oz's a month then that leaves alot of room to sell the rest to others in need?

it still is'nt clear to me how if your a grower you can only have such and such on hand by law per patient.but a shop seems to have so much more than that on hand at all times? if cops walked into a caregivers grow room and he was only allowed 3 in bloom and he had 4 he's going to jail yet shops seems to have much more than they do patients"just guessing about that" and they are good to go? i also have talked to a couple lawyers about this and they said sometimes u can be doing everything legal to the t and leo will and do just walk in and take your shit and or find a way to lock u up.

now i don't know if thats true or if they are just trying to get me to hire them but from what i get from all this is even tho it's legal it's not in the eyes of the leo and they will try to find another way to take u down?not sure has anyone had anything like that happen or leo come to there house and all was good?

my understanding was 2 oz dry and 6 plant count per caregiver/patient?yet i see things like i have a doc note that allows me to grow 20 plants myself.i was told that u may have a docs note but it's still not legal and u will go to jail if leo sees it.who knows im treating it as if it was still completely illegal.:jointsmile:

[ViridisWellness]

Dispensaries may be growing for themselves, or they may be assigning their grow rights (via contract) to actual growers, and then buying that product. It's in a dispensary's best interest to get as many people to nominate them as caregiver, then turn around and either grow or assign for grow. Many of these places have hundreds, if not thousands of patients who designate them, so yes, they can have lots of product on hand.

As far as cops just coming in and busting you, even if you're following the law, well, I haven't been hearing these stories. As a matter of fact, the Boulder County Sheriff isn't even actively looking into dispensaries because of their potential liability if they do a bust, then confiscate the product. Police under A-20 have a duty to preserve product until such time that the suspect has either been charged, or not. They don't want to end up spending their police budget on pot gone bad, or anything else they fuck up.

I'm sure there are some hard-ass cops out there who are itching to shut people down, and there's probably some horror stories out there, but that doesn't seem to be happening in CO now. I'd love to hear if it has. But I think you're right - those attorneys are probably trying to drum up some more biz by putting the fear of Jah in you. Much better to have the Light of Jah!

Any amounts over the 2-3-3 limit may be considered an affirmative defense if you have a doctor supporting it. So if a patient can't smoke, and needs to ingest for example, she'd be more likely to get away with exceeding the limits. But if you're some UC student with a prescription for severe pain, forget about it.

All in all I agree, a grower can easily exceed even a couple oz's per month for one patient, so why not be allowed to supply the dispensaries who need the product? It's being done a lot, and there are legal ways to help protect yourself as a grower. Hopefully, before too long, there will be some clarification to the law that allows growers some peace of mind.

[COVaper]

My experiences at your dispensary do not remotely resemble your description.
After five months with you as my caregiver all I received were promises.
When I brought up my complaints I was told my membership would be canceled.
Compassionate? Hardly.
I would suggest finding another dispensary. Better yet grow your own medicine.
Patients Choice is for patient chumps!

Regards

[GratefulMeds]

We have over 15-20 strains available at anytime,we also have eatables, we never charge over $350.00 per zip. Grateful Meds, it's worth the drive to Nederland.

Grateful Meds
Nederland Colorado
303 258 7703
Reply With Quote

[rebgirl420]

I think it's absolutely dispicable that there are people trying to take advantage and mislead people who really need marijuana as a medicine.

That to me is really fucked up.

[HighPopalorum]

I think it's absolutely dispicable that there are people trying to take advantage and mislead people who really need marijuana as a medicine.

That to me is really fucked up.

Not nearly as fucked up as what mainstream insurance and pharmaceutical companies are up to right now. Charging $400 an ounce seems pretty tame compared to the horror stories I've been reading.

*shrug*

[rebgirl420]

Not nearly as fucked up as what mainstream insurance and pharmaceutical companies are up to right now. Charging $400 an ounce seems pretty tame compared to the horror stories I've been reading.

*shrug*

I agree.

Everything is a racket nowadays.

It's really a shame.

That sort of shit makes me feel some sort of way...

:admin2:

[palerider7777]

Again, we do apologize for your experience. I recognize who you are. Yes when we first opened we thought we would have clones available way sooner than we did. Due to different garden issues it was Our mistake big time, My husband aplogized and told you he would call you when they were available. He did not call you in that next week because they were not available and you called again very angry. We do not drop people because they communicate their feelings. We welcome communication. But it is they way feelings that are communicated that matters. I think we tried our best with you, and like I said we made mistakes by giving deadlines on when we thought the clones would be done. it is not that we do/did not care. we really do care. Appreciate your feedback, showing us what we can do better.
wishing you all the best and hope you are well.
Peace
PCC
from what iv'e seen sum people just want everything handed to them then when u say well grow your own then if it's that easy and free.then that pisses them off.so if u say u can grow your own all day long and that pisses u off then that must mean u want it for free?

also these same people talk about compassion yet they want u to labor fit the bill for eveything and then give it away? it's the same as any farmer out there.should a corn farmer show "compassion" and give his crop away to cause u need to eat? what about him and his fam? should he take the food from his own family's mouth just so u can get a freebie?after all these same people say things like it only cost 400 to grow a whole crop.lmao just shows u they either never done it or trying to round up the ones that have'nt to make the shops and growers look like greedy pos's.what gets them every time tho is when u say ok u grow it and i'll be sitting here waiting on your crop so we can have it all for free.they get mad and go to name calling then.

they want it legal like everything else but then don't want it to be like everything else?everything thats legal meds and all has a price.see when u put forth truth like i do u can always see the ones that think like this come out and start name calling.

u don't see them calling the butcher a pos for what he charges. u never here them cry about the dealers on the street that rip them off when ever they feel like it cause they can and sell them a short oz or tell them "this shits the fire u need this..450 plz and it turns out to be bunk?not 1 peep but make it legal and open a shop well you no good pos u. you greedy sob this and that as if the street dealers arn't raping and making a killing.lmao weak and a lack of understanding of the world or they just want it all but only if your legal and grow pot should u give it away everything else no prob.

[COVaper]

"We do not drop people because they communicate their feelings. We welcome communication. But it is they way feelings that are communicated that matters. I think we tried our best with you, and like I said we made mistakes by giving deadlines on when we thought the clones would be done. it is not that we do/did not care. we really do care. Appreciate your feedback, showing us what we can do better.
wishing you all the best and hope you are well."

You tried your best with Me? What did you do?
Thank you for your best wishes.
Regards

[puntacometa]

Good day all, I hope all here read the MMJ-News on a monthly basis. As a registered patient/caregiver/dispensary owner I want to let you know that several other dispensaries in this wonderful state have been out right lying to thier perspective patients. I have called several and I get this response, "you must assign us as your caregiver, and you may only obtain meds from us." This is an out right lie!!!!!!! Check out the 2009 Colorado Patients" Campaign @ [url=http://www.cannabisunivercity.webs.com/09copatientscampaign.htm]
as a registered Colorado MMJ patient has the right to obtain meds from any source no matter who your caregiver is!!!! It is time patients stand up and make the dispenaries realize that they will not survive without us, take away the membership fees, the outragous prices for meds, and quit lying to us!!!!!! A reputable dispensary will not require you to sign a contract, pay a membership fee, and will also show true compassion for thier patients by charging them according to thier income, not the dispensaries profit margin, in reality it only cost 400.00 to grow a pound of pot, so why are they charging 400.00 an ounce to folks on SSI or SS-DI? Get involved and speak out!!!!


I've never put the pencil to it, but the idea that it only costs $400.00 to grow a pound of pot is a stretch, IMO. Unless you're growing a very small amount, I'm wondering how you came to this conclusion unless you don't include the time it takes a grower to tend his crop. I consider my time to be worth $500.00 per day, minimum. I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but just the dirt in one of my 32 gallon pots costs about $60.00. Add to this organic fertilizers, pesticides/fungicides, PH up/down treatments, utility costs for HID lighting, propane or natural gas heat of a greenhouse, electric costs and infrastructure costs for a professional greenhouse structure.......ie....fans, dehumidifiers, automated venting, C02 emitters, timers and most of all the time it takes a grower to meticulously inspect, care for, feed and finally cut manicure and properly cure each plant so that it yields extremely high medical grade product with no residues and I'd say that the combination of all of these expenses .....especially when you calculate into the equation a grower's time, might work out to a bit more than $400.00.

[palerider7777]

I've never put the pencil to it, but the idea that it only costs $400.00 to grow a pound of pot is a stretch, IMO. Unless you're growing a very small amount, I'm wondering how you came to this conclusion unless you don't include the time it takes a grower to tend his crop. I consider my time to be worth $500.00 per day, minimum. I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but just the dirt in one of my 32 gallon pots costs about $60.00. Add to this organic fertilizers, pesticides/fungicides, PH up/down treatments, utility costs for HID lighting, propane or natural gas heat of a greenhouse, electric costs and infrastructure costs for a professional greenhouse structure.......ie....fans, dehumidifiers, automated venting, C02 emitters, timers and most of all the time it takes a grower to meticulously inspect, care for, feed and finally cut manicure and properly cure each plant so that it yields extremely high medical grade product with no residues and I'd say that the combination of all of these expenses .....especially when you calculate into the equation a grower's time, might work out to a bit more than $400.00.

these guys that think like that 400$ guys they are setup in a closet with a couple of cfl's pulling about 2 or 3 oz's every 2 months.+ they think high times is a growers bible lmao.

[BobbyX]

OK - I'm feeling like an idiot. I just made my first trip to a dispensary. I was filling out some paperwork before I could purchase and one section was talking about assigning them as primary caregiver. I told the guy I had already assigned a primary on my application. He told me that the person I assigned was my "state caregiver" and that assigning them as my "primary caregiver" just allowed them to sell to me. They also said I could assign multiple primary caregivers. They showed me this form http://www.cdphe.state.co.us/hs/medicalmarijuana/Changeform.pdf and said I would have to fill this out before the caregiver I assigned on my application could be changed.

So now I'm really confused.

Did I just screw myself or my "state caregiver"??

If I did, how do I fix this?

Thank you

[StiKy2RoLL]

I guess a good question to ask:

If they only allow one caregiver per patient, how would they know if a patient had multiple caregivers? and can anyone explain why you can not have multiple caregivers, specialy when it comes to something such cannabis?

When I go see my doctor, he dont tell me I can only fill my script at walgreens. I can fill it anywhere, from wal mart to the local grocery store....

PS: To cultivate a pouund of top notch medical grade cannabis usually costs me 900-1200 per pound depending on strain, and that is not factoring in labor. Once you add up what the setup costs, it usually takes one or two harvests to even recoupe your start up investment. Anyone who says they are doing pounds for 400, I would certainly like to hear the details surrounding it. I dont think even my outdoor could be produced that cheap....

[senorx12562]

OK - I'm feeling like an idiot. I just made my first trip to a dispensary. I was filling out some paperwork before I could purchase and one section was talking about assigning them as primary caregiver. I told the guy I had already assigned a primary on my application. He told me that the person I assigned was my "state caregiver" and that assigning them as my "primary caregiver" just allowed them to sell to me. They also said I could assign multiple primary caregivers. They showed me this form http://www.cdphe.state.co.us/hs/medicalmarijuana/Changeform.pdf and said I would have to fill this out before the caregiver I assigned on my application could be changed.

So now I'm really confused.

Did I just screw myself or my "state caregiver"??

If I did, how do I fix this?

Thank you
If your original caregiver were to be investigated and relied upon your designation of him/her as your caregiver to account for part of the quantity of medicine and/or plants in his/her possession at the time the cops were standing there, then that person may not be exempt from prosecution, to the extent your designation of someone else became known to the authorities. To find out, the authorities would only have to make a phone call to the CDPHE. At least thats the way it is supposed to work. Clear as mud, right? Actually, it gets better. None of the foregoing means that your previous caregiver could not present an affirmative defense, presumably calling you as a witness to testify that notwithstanding your change of caregiver designation, he/she was still acting as your caregiver. Having to present any kind of defense is an expensive proposition however, and not for the faint of heart. Luckily, I am unaware of any legal limitation on the number of times you can change your designated caregiver on file with the CDPHE, so get the form and change it back if your previous caregiver still needs that designation.

[senorx12562]

I guess a good question to ask:

If they only allow one caregiver per patient, how would they know if a patient had multiple caregivers? and can anyone explain why you can not have multiple caregivers, specialy when it comes to something such cannabis?

When I go see my doctor, he dont tell me I can only fill my script at walgreens. I can fill it anywhere, from wal mart to the local grocery store....

PS: To cultivate a pouund of top notch medical grade cannabis usually costs me 900-1200 per pound depending on strain, and that is not factoring in labor. Once you add up what the setup costs, it usually takes one or two harvests to even recoupe your start up investment. Anyone who says they are doing pounds for 400, I would certainly like to hear the details surrounding it. I dont think even my outdoor could be produced that cheap....
The patient can obtain medicine anywhere they want, and as soon as it is in the patient's hand, it is legal under state law for them to possess it. It doesn't matter whether it is legal for the seller or not. If a cop were to interrupt the transaction while the medicine was still in the hands of the seller, and the seller did not have a license as a patient, (which I guess means it is still just pot instead of "medicine") the seller could be arrested, no matter who the buyer's designated caregiver is. There is no separate license to be a caregiver. The buyer's caregiver for a particular transaction is the seller, designated as such with the state or not, for purposes of making it legal for the patient. One of the anomalies of the law is the situation where a designated caregiver is not also licensed as a patient.

[senorx12562]

OK - I'm feeling like an idiot. I just made my first trip to a dispensary. I was filling out some paperwork before I could purchase and one section was talking about assigning them as primary caregiver. I told the guy I had already assigned a primary on my application. He told me that the person I assigned was my "state caregiver" and that assigning them as my "primary caregiver" just allowed them to sell to me. They also said I could assign multiple primary caregivers. They showed me this form http://www.cdphe.state.co.us/hs/medicalmarijuana/Changeform.pdf and said I would have to fill this out before the caregiver I assigned on my application could be changed.

So now I'm really confused.

Did I just screw myself or my "state caregiver"??

If I did, how do I fix this?

Thank you
Sorry, I forgot. I believe the dispensary lied to you. You can only have either 1 or 0 caregivers designated with the CDPHE. You cannot add a caregiver, you can only change it. Note the language at the bottom of the form about revoking the previous caregiver (weird grammar, I thought only God could revoke someone). The more interesting issue is, how do you go from a caregiver to no caregiver?

[StiKy2RoLL]

The patient can obtain medicine anywhere they want, and as soon as it is in the patient's hand, it is legal under state law for them to possess it. It doesn't matter whether it is legal for the seller or not. If a cop were to interrupt the transaction while the medicine was still in the hands of the seller, and the seller did not have a license as a patient, (which I guess means it is still just pot instead of "medicine") the seller could be arrested, no matter who the buyer's designated caregiver is. There is no separate license to be a caregiver. The buyer's caregiver for a particular transaction is the seller, designated as such with the state or not, for purposes of making it legal for the patient. One of the anomalies of the law is the situation where a designated caregiver is not also licensed as a patient.

Where does it say that a caregiver NEEDS a medical marijuana liscense? I dont understand why you would need to be sick to dispense medicine. From my understanding, patients can designate caregivers who do not actually consume the medicine, nor are patients.



Care-giver: a person, other than the patient and the patient's physician, who is eighteen years of age or older and has significant responsibility for managing the well-being of a patient who has a debilitating medical condition.

In order to be eligible to receive protections under Colorado State law as a medical marijuana patient or care-giver you must be registered with the Colorado Medical Marijuana Registry that is operated and maintained by the Colorado Dept. of Public Health and Environment. The registry is not affiliated with any privately operated club, organization or dispensary.


It seems to me that they only ask you to register as a caregiver, but not actually require you to be a patient.


...Am I correct to believe this?

[jsherwo]

I love these dipsh@ts. Grow your own if you're so unhappy. Then they can worry about getting raided / robbed / shot / house burned down / bugs / mold / sh#tty seeds / hermaphrodites / cloning / cleaning / pruning / drying / packing / pulled over by some rookie cop / lawyers / court / everchanging laws / electric bills / ph balance / keeping their mouth shut so everyone in the world doesn't know / keeping the smell out of their house / watching what they say around their own home / wondering if their being watched / $2,000 start up expenses minimum . . . good luck ya fu#kin slackers. I'll charge you double or not at all if I one of you has the sack to bring up price around me.

[senorx12562]

Where does it say that a caregiver NEEDS a medical marijuana liscense? I dont understand why you would need to be sick to dispense medicine. From my understanding, patients can designate caregivers who do not actually consume the medicine, nor are patients.





It seems to me that they only ask you to register as a caregiver, but not actually require you to be a patient.


...Am I correct to believe this?
There is no way to register as a caregiver, you can only BE registered as a caregiver by a patient.

[palerider7777]

I love these dipsh@ts. Grow your own if you're so unhappy. Then they can worry about getting raided / robbed / shot / house burned down / bugs / mold / sh#tty seeds / hermaphrodites / cloning / cleaning / pruning / drying / packing / pulled over by some rookie cop / lawyers / court / everchanging laws / electric bills / ph balance / keeping their mouth shut so everyone in the world doesn't know / keeping the smell out of their house / watching what they say around their own home / wondering if their being watched / $2,000 start up expenses minimum . . . good luck ya fu#kin slackers. I'll charge you double or not at all if I one of you has the sack to bring up price around me.

bout time another person with a brain around here or should i say was raised right to earn your keep and not be a mooch.:smokin:i thought i was the only one out there......