Selecting a Mother

[oldmac]

Thought I'd share something here about the need to grow out a fair number of plants from seed, in order to select the best plant(s) for future use as a mother. I constantly see folks here with plant problems that are simply the result of growing one or two seeds, and getting what you got and then looking for help because; 1) too short, doesn't seem to grow "like my friends" plant or 2) my plant has lots of stretch and is lanky or 3) I grew this plant and it was nice and bushy but this strain is so weak it's shitty, etc, etc.

Last month my partner and I got some seeds and decided to grow out the some Shiva Skunk. The seeds are from Sensi and are femmenized 10 pack.
(At the same time we started some auto-flower 3- LR2xAK47 and 4-LR2xsanta maria) All 10 seeds where germinated then planted in containers. Each plant is marked A thru J so when process is done we know who stays and who is "fired".

Here's a couple of pics of them in containers, day or two after the germinated seeds where planted.

[oldmac]

About 25 days later, the 10 Shiva Skunks are ready to give clones.
Took at least 2 from every plant, some where willing to give more. But the most I took were 4, just because I'm lazy and did not want to keep soooo many records. BTW, from germination to completion, everything that is important is noted. ie: growth rate and vigor, it's stature, ease to clone and ultimatly how good it finally is.

Couple of pics of the potential moms. I'm sorry I did not line them up for a photo so you could see the differences in height between them in just 25 days. (back rows are the autos) And 3 pics of the cuttings in the EZ-clonner with thier name tags. Now I know the tags look big, but they will grow into them. Plus these will stay with the plants for the complete life cycle including harvest, drying, and tasteing. Like I said before, notes about each at every stage. We will be looking for a plant that is first potent, then short and tight nodes, easiest to clone etc. (plants on right of clonner are Apricot that came out of clonner and are doing a little veg time till going to bloom room)

[headshake]

good thread oldmac! subscribed.


-shake

[oldmac]

Thought I should add this.

Since these where fem seeds, 10 seemed like a good amount. If I was using regular seeds I would normally start 20 seeds figuring I would lose some to males. If I was looking for a breeding mother I might start even more.

It is the only way to find a good representation of the strain, there is just too much variation in seeds and the less stable the strain the greater the variation.

Hope this might help someone.

[McDanger]

I'm on board, looking forward to the learning

[oldmac]

Thanks Headshake.

The meat and potatoes are already here. Updates will occur but slowly.
This is a very slow process, just watching the grass grow now. But it is the only way I have found to try and keep the level of genetics where it should be, and to get a strain ready for real production.

[oldmac]

Hello McDanger,

Not sure how much is to be learned here, but I will encouage questions and kibbitzing while we wait.

In fact I guess I'll need to build a porch here, for my all my rowdy friends.

[oldmac]

A few days after giving up some cuttings, the 10 plants that where started from seed, where put into bloom @ 12/12. Tallest plant was abt 2' and shortest abt 1', with the average about 20-22". This is taller then I would normally bloom plants for production, but wanted to see what a fair representation of the plant was like.

One week later and some of the cuttings are ready to plant, others will come along later. In the selection process how quick a plant roots is very important. Notes were taken on when first roots appeared on which plants.
An example of how to get taken out of the gene pool, is our plant "D", out of four cuttings none are ready to plant, and just 2 show the start of a root (a snaggle tooth). So unless plant D turns out to be a ton better when finished then the others, it's a gonner.

Pic of roots @ 7 days.

[dejayou30]

Great thread! I have been reading a lot of your posts lately oldmac and I am impressed with your knowledge in several areas. I am looking forward to your process here, as it is much more intense than my garden.

I think that as a hobby/beginning grower, growing out a bunch of of plants, cloning them, growing those out, etc. can be a bit overwhelming, as the plant grows like a weed and 10 plants can get out of control fast. Perhaps its just my n00bness, but I had to cut down from trying to do 10 at a time to just doing one or two because it was too much to maintain and outgrew my 5x4 area very quickly.

The way I selected my first mother when I first started was to simply grow out 10 seeds and keep the one that performed the best. I based performance on tightness of the nodes, root size, and overall vigor. The plant I chose performed head and shoulders above the rest. I think if you are new to growing, this is probably the easiest way to begin dealing with a mother plant. Also keep in mind that I got my seeds (Master Kush) from Dutch Passion, so I was assuming the seeds were stable and relatively true breeding.

After getting a year of growing under my belt, I picked up some Purple Kush genes that were essentially bag seeds. I got them from a friend that got them directly from the grower in CA. He said the grower was trying to stabilize his own strain of Purple Kush, and suggested I grow out some seeds and see what I get. He let me sample the buds the seeds came from and I was very impressed with the taste and the heavy body stone. I started 8 seeds, and this time, I took a clone of all of them. In retrospect, I should have taken a few more because only 2 of the 8 survived in the long run (5 clones rooted but I killed 3 of them because of a bunk DWC system I had set up). Long story short, one was green and one was Purple, but they both had the same taste I remembered (or at least what I think I remembered :stoned:) from the bud the seeds came from. Obviously I got rid of the green one and kept the purple one. I am still growing that clone from the Purple plant today, and I can't wait to take some more clones and flower it in the fall.

I didn't go to the extent of actually harvesting and sampling several plants as a you are doing, so this is kind of a simpler and dumbed down version of your methods. Perhaps some n00bz like myself might be able to get their feet wet with this before jumping into your program, so I thought I would add to the thread! Can't wait to see what you find with your seedlot! :thumbsup::jointsmile:

[oldmac]

Hello dejayou30,

Thanks for the compliment, I probably read more then I post but I have been encouraged to share some ideas and thinking on subjects other then LEDs.
I actually consider what I do as being a hobbyist, tho a certain production level is necessary to be able to help people in need.

You have a good grasp of the selection process, and if you only base your selection on how a plant grows out of many, you have it at least 95% covered. Like you say, with good seeds that are stabelized there is not too much difference in plants overall, and picking a plant(s) based on best node spacing and growth you probably can't go wrong. What I'm doing here could be short cutted to some extent, but I'm doing it the "oldfashion" way.

BTW: I have a question for you about an answer on another thread dealing with 24/0 vs. 18/6 (which is best?). I'll pose it to you there and hope you can help me out.

[Horsemanrocks]

Oldmacâ?¦I much appreciate the tip you gave me on the other threadâ?¦.and, it brought me here to information that I need also. Youâ??re a fine teacher, and teaching a much needed subject. With laws changing as they are, I imagine the newb population is running rampant.
Iâ??m a newbboomerâ?¦Iâ??m a newbboomerâ?¦â?¦kinda catchy, donâ??t you think. Yeah I knowâ?¦..some people just shouldnâ??t sing. But if Neil Young made it as a singerâ?¦.anything is possible!

Horsemanoncerocked.

[oldmac]

Quick update, since last time rooted cuttings where planted into containers of P-mix, and are rooting nicely under the T5 HOs (plus actinic white).

But time is up, and these last three cuttings have reached my arbitrary and coprecius dead line. Speaking of dead these 3 cuttings represent 2 plants that are the weakest link and are banished from the gene pool.

[oldmac]

Here's a couple of shoots of the original 10 plants grown from seed, sharing a 1000kwatt HPS, with a small batch of much smaller Apricot plants, in the bloom room.

[oldmac]

This is off the topic of mother selection but it's fun to experiment alittle.
Mentioned before about starting some auto flowers....had to put the 4- LR2Xsanta marias' into the bloom room a couple of weeks ago since they were not "auto-flowering" like the 3-LR2XAK47 where. Here's some picks of the AKs.
Note: just found 2 of the LR2XSM in the flower room tonight with 'nanas, yup hermethodites. Took them and tossed them out immediately. BE gone you damned abominations!
Plus I can't resist, also some pics of batch of Apricot under the hybred T5/LED light. I just love the colors.

[oldmac]

Hey there Horsemanrocks,

Glad to see you stopped by. Sorta a slow thing I have going here.
But I'm trying to do my best to document my selection process, but it never grows fast enough for me.

Speaking of slow.......
Just had a server melt down and my last pics did not make it thru.
So here goes the "shits and giigles" pics again.

[Horsemanrocks]

Almost a month ago I started some 25yr old indica bagseed from a very large local guerilla grow. Most germed and all cracked in 36hrs. Iâ??m a newb and immediately thought that I was in â??tall cottonâ?�. As it turns out one has outperformed the others by a lot.
I only started 6 and you have me thinking that a larger gene pool would be a very fine idea indeed. I have plenty of seed, and even though Iâ??m a frugal sort, in the morning itâ??s time to see if there are any more â??out performersâ?� waiting in the wingsâ?¦er..freezer.

Comment on old seed if you feel so inclined (not me, the mj seed) and while so many hold their breath any comments on soils, lighting, or maybe some Jessica Simpson pictures would be good

Hasta la later,
Horsemanwillrockagain

[oldmac]

Yo Horse,

I have a bunch of old seeds stored, and have germed some that where over 30 years old. My observations have been that really old seeds tend to either germ or not, and the older they are the higher the number of "nots". And the amount of strange or mutant starts are the same as fresh seeds. So my conclusion is that there is no harm geneticly to long term storage, just the amount of viable seeds decreases.

And the larger the gene pool the better. My rule of thumb has been 10 minium for feminized seed 20 for regular seeds. All of that said I realize that lucky beats hard work. I once had two seeds from Africa, something we called "black hockey puck" back then. Only one germed, but turned out to be a "perfect" plant in all respects. Go figure.

Jessica Simspon? How about Veronica Lake! (go look that one up in a history book)LOL

[Weezard]

But, fo' da 'zard. it's always been...

Lauren Bacall y'all.:lovestruck:

<sigh>

Weeze

[Horsemanrocks]

How old are you guys?

YouTube - Jessica Simpson - These Boots Are Made For Walkin' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReXt4l9r2pA&feature=fvst)

ThisrocksHorseman

[sarah louise]

The seeds are from Sensi and are femmenized 10 pack.

The very latest of Sensi's fem lines. Very tasty. I don't know when you got yours but for the first 72 hours or so after the launch, they were cheaper than the regs. LOL typo on the Sensi shop page had them listed for about 30 euros.

I'll be drooling on the sidelines through this one.

sara :jointsmile:

[Dutch Pimp]

How old are you guys?

YouTube - Jessica Simpson - These Boots Are Made For Walkin' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReXt4l9r2pA&feature=fvst)

ThisrocksHorseman

older than dirt...:thumbsup:

[oldmac]

The very latest of Sensi's fem lines. Very tasty. I don't know when you got yours but for the first 72 hours or so after the launch, they were cheaper than the regs. LOL typo on the Sensi shop page had them listed for about 30 euros.

I'll be drooling on the sidelines through this one.

sara :jointsmile:

Hi sarah louise,

Not even sure what we paid for them, my partner bought a bunch of different seeds from a vendor in UK. We did pick the Sensi shiva skunk mostly for the short flowering time and we had heard it was tasty. Went the fem route 'cause I'm too lazy to grow out 20 regular seeds. After we grow out this stuff and select a mom(s), I think we'll do some Hindu Kush by Barney's next. You're welcome to kibbitz here while we wait.

[oldmac]

Hey Weezard, I met Lauren Bacall amount 3 years ago. What a lovely lady, and she is still absolutely beatuifull, even at her age.

Yo Dutch, Glad you stopped by finally. Nice choice but I think Elvria would kill you. And if you are older then dirt....what the hell am I.

And Horse, Think you'll find this group is about the same age, "old hippy" vintage, except me I'm a little older "old beat-nik" generation.
The others have heard this, don't think you have, as Willie Nelson said on his 75th birthday and it fits me perfectly "I've out livied my dick." How's that for old?

[Dutch Pimp]

Yo Dutch, Glad you stopped by finally. Nice choice but I think Elvria would kill you.

...that's the plan I have for retirement....:thumbsup:...and you're older than rock!

[Horsemanrocks]

When is this thing gonna get started. Iâ??m an â??old hippieâ?� and I wanna get on with it while Iâ??m still youngâ?¦â?¦.and believe me, there ainâ??t that much time left.
I imagine a few of you followed the link to the Willie Nelson video that I left. It appears Oldmac did or was it merely coincidence that he immediately started thinking of Willie��.?? Gotta love that Willie!

The Newb question of the evening is: In a Cervantes video on youtube Jorge says â??donâ??t worry you canâ??t overwater themâ?� but doesnâ??t elaborate on when that ceases to be true. Any conversation?

Looking forward to 4th of July
Horsemancouldrockagain.

[oldmac]

Yippe Ki Aaaaah Horsemanrocks,

I've been a big Willie Nelson fan for a long time. Went to see him in concert almost two years ago outside Austin,Tx for a NORML benefit. It was an outdoor amplitheater, every seat was in the smoking section! Tho me and my side kick Tonto were looking for the vape section...you know old lungs. (I like to travel with my housmate 'cause he makes me look young, we think he's 91, but won't be sure till we cut him open and count the rings)

I believe when times are tough or your facing adversity, you need to stop and reflect, then ask yourself....what would Willie do? That's when I reach for the SSV vape and do some. Ahhhhhhhhh things get so much better.

I just recently did extensive looking for something dejayou30 mention about photoperiods and Cervantes. I really need to get a copy of his book to see what he says about a few things. That particular video I have not seen, but will look for it. If he's talking about just the way to water in a container grown plant he's right. Water it till it runs out the drain holes, and soak the heck out of it. You can't overwater it. But then you need to let the container to dry out before you do it again. So if you water it too often you could overwater it. Hmmmm. We need context here.

BTW I gave the shiva skunk girls a good feeding and a pep talk. Told them how there were clones in waiting to fufill thier legacy and they better hurry the F up 'cause Horseman was anxious. I got no reply...they is just dumb ass plants, and I can't wait to exploit thier best traits to my advantage.:D

[Italiano715]

I just recently did extensive looking for something dejayou30 mention about photoperiods and Cervantes. I really need to get a copy of his book to see what he says about a few things. That particular video I have not seen, but will look for it. If he's talking about just the way to water in a container grown plant he's right. Water it till it runs out the drain holes, and soak the heck out of it. You can't overwater it. But then you need to let the container to dry out before you do it again. So if you water it too often you could overwater it. Hmmmm. We need context here.

Yeah....that makes more sense. Cervantes was saying you can't overwater it, but I was thinking how can't you when people do it all the time. Then I sat and realized maybe the overwatering is not caused by too much water in one time, but more of too much water given over a period of time...leading to overwatering. Which lead me to believe why letting the soil "dry" out is so important before watering again. Glad you posted this so I could realize what it was he meant exactly by, "You can't overwater them." Kudos! :thumbsup:

[oldmac]

Hey Italiano, I'm guessing that's what he meant, I could be wrong.

I saw a great tag line on another site:

How you tell when a container grown plant needs water...lift the pot!

Just love the common sence approach. And that's what I do now in the grow you see pics of. Container growing using P-mix, it's how I started a long time ago indoors. And for all the pain in the ass "dirt" growing is....it beats the crap outta rockwool in my other set-up. Not in production but in the pain in the ass dept. RW is such crap to dispose of, took me two years to come up with a method to "destroy the evidence" when done with it.

[Horsemanrocks]

what would Willie do?

Between you and Italiano itâ??s clearâ?¦.
The video is on youtube. Itâ??s one that isnâ??t presently restricted. Itâ??s his ultimate grow #7 about 7min and 15sec in. Totally understandable now though.

I just recently did extensive looking for something dejayou30 mention about photoperiods and Cervantes. I really need to get a copy of his book to see what he says about a few things.

Just found an Ed Rosenthal link late last nightâ?¦..so I havenâ??t spent any time with it yet. Might also be of interest? Ask Ed | Cannabis Culture Magazine (http://www.cannabisculture.com/v2/articles/4772.html)

BTW I gave the shiva skunk girls a good feeding and a pep talk. Told them how there were clones in waiting to fufill thier legacy and they better hurry the F up 'cause Horseman was anxious. I got no reply...they is just dumb ass plants, and I can't wait to exploit thier best traits to my advantage.

Donâ??t know how they could help but respond to that.

Thanks for the entertainment
HorsemanandWillierock

[oldmac]

Hey Horseman,

I have an old Ed Rosenthal (w/Mel Franks) grow guide and I think it is damn good. Earlier this week I got to go to a "big city" and look thru a Borders book store. I could not believe how many mj or mmj grow guides there where. Including a whole book by Rosenthal called "Ed R answers all your questions" which is a compelation of his columns, and was quite good. Of course they had no Cervantes book's, figures.

I much prefer Rosenthal, since he is a grower. Cervantes just seems to visit growers, I have yet to see anything he's grown. Just today I read another post of someone citing Cervantes, as gospel, and again not sure I would agree 100%.

On the Shivas Skunk selection, my partner and I went over all the notes so far, but I was so tired I did not bother to take notes of the notes to post. I'll need to do that in the next day or two and get some pics of the original 10 plants in bloom room. I really can't believe that people grow these things to full size (abt 145cm [4']) according to Sensi seeds, they are way bigger then I normally grow indoors, and are larger then my head space, since I grow on a table. I'm too old to have the plants on the floor and all the bending and stooping it intails. But they are doing well, 1 or 2 are abt 3 1/2' and the rest at 4' or so.

OH well gotta grab some lunch and get my afternoon started. Post more soon.

[phatsesh101]

ED has some good books my first was an ed rosenthal from the along time ago and probly my most used.

that marijuana botany by robert connel clark is a good reader.
Marijuana Botany - Marijuana Growing Guide (http://www.mellowgold.com/grow/mjbotany-removed/)

just cause you write a book dont mean you can grow great, ive smoked some of the canna bible dudes jason king i think sour d and twreck and a couple others and they were ok not the best they lacked flavor in my opinion

i liked dj shorts work very tasty

i look for flavor on the 3rd and 4th hit of a bowl as a flavor indicator if not its not top shelf. just some insight into my grading

i like this thread, i thought my most vigorous female was gonna be the best and after all said and done it was a slower starter that took off after sexual maturity in veg ended up much more bushy and denser stoneier buds in the end.

[Horsemanrocks]

I much prefer Rosenthal, since he is a grower. Cervantes just seems to visit growers, I have yet to see anything he's grown. Just today I read another post of someone citing Cervantes, as gospel, and again not sure I would agree 100%.

I came up with the books that I did because they were the textbooks on Oaksterdamâ??s site. I figured that it couldnâ??t be a terrible place to start. I cite Cervantes because itâ??s what I have. I got no dog in this fight and have no reason to defend Cervantesâ?¦..but possibly not claiming some of those grows as his own could serve a purpose. I see posts on this site with us Newbs doing â??everything wrongâ?� and have some nice looking stuff. I see a lot of room for latitude. I do know that there is no 100%. I do give Cervantes credit for being in one hell of a lot of â??private placesâ?�, and that leads to an incredible overview. Having that reference at hand with an index is handy. (In retrospect that really looks like defending himâ?¦â?¦not my intent)This leads me into my evening rant:
In this sites favor I saw a post that compliments this site on a more â??adultâ?� content than othersâ?¦..on that I agree wholeheartedly. (itâ??s why I mostly hang here) I do get a little testy when a respondent suggests that the newb uses the search engineâ?¦â?¦IMnotsoHO the search engine here SUCKS! I certainly get info quicker from a text.
Anybody leaving feedback on their favorite Rosenthal bookâ?¦..Iâ??d be obliged!

Schools now test early and arrange classes by learning skills. Some visual, some auditory, etcâ?¦..I cite the youtube videos because with the audio and video combined I seem to retain it better. I suggest that approach to all newbs. It helps create a mental picture. The key to Carnegieâ??s memory course. The sad part being is that to make space for the new pictures, Iâ??ve had to delete just tons of old Raquel Welsh pictures stored in that gray matter that have quite frankly served me well for many yearsâ?¦..I sure hope that it turns out to be worth it!

Phatsesh
Good link��loads of info�..how about somebody give me a call and read it to me, the auditory part really helps.

Iâ??ll miss you Raquel,
Horsemanrocks

[oldmac]

Thanks from me too, Phatesh101, just saved it and will read it when I get a chance. Noticed the intro by Mel Frank, so it should hold some water.

And Horseman, sorry about losing Racquel but some other info in your brain might be a good thing.
You make a goodpoint about about newbs asking questions, I cringe sometimes when they get the bums rush with "google it"...like you point out it don't work that easy when you really are trying to find something on this site. But on the other hand some qestions are so basic it would be nice if they read something , anything on the subject first.

My atittude is to try to help anyone if they have a good decent approach and really need help. Some I've seen are past help and nothing I say will help them...or you just don't know where to begin.

Hey you can defend Cervantes, I don't have a problem with him, in fact like I said I was looking for his book to actually buy it. I thought it might be a good reference. I personally use a textbook I got 3 years ago for a horti class; "Horticulture, Principles and Practices" by George Acquash. It cost me abt $110, so it became my "go to" book for all things growing. Besides mmj I also dabble with wine vines used in viniculture. I've propagated vines for some wineries, including setting up a 5yr propagation program that takes only 3 years to do. (short days, shorten seasons all done indoors under artifical light and controlled enviroment)

[sarah louise]

We did pick the Sensi shiva skunk mostly for the short flowering time and we had heard it was tasty. Went the fem route 'cause I'm too lazy to grow out 20 regular seeds.

I think you heard right about the taste... definitely one of the better tasting skunks.


After we grow out this stuff and select a mom(s), I think we'll do some Hindu Kush by Barney's next. You're welcome to kibbitz here while we wait.

Thanks, seeing as this looks to be the un-official 'old as dirt' corner, I feel quite at home already.

[Dutch Pimp]

Thanks, seeing as this looks to be the un-official 'old as dirt' corner, I feel quite at home already.

...:wtf:

[crabbyback]

Oldmac, how did I miss this thread? And yes, I am stalking you...:computerlove1:

I may be tardy but I'll catch up. Subscribed.



Thanks, seeing as this looks to be the un-official 'old as dirt' corner, I feel quite at home already.Hmmm, you got us figured out already.

[oldmac]

Hi Sarah Louise,

Actually it's Dutch Pimp who is older then dirt, he says that makes me older then rock. LOL. Nice to have you stop by, it's allows nice to have mutually interested company.

Horseman, just mentioned that someone said this site seems to be more "mature" then some sites. Wait he actually said more "adult", hmmm that could be taken a different way I guess.

I must admit I was surprised by some peoples' ages here, but in thinking about it, it does makes sence. The generation that came up thru the 60's is much more accepting of the use of mj and by extension the use of mj medically. It is a much tougher sale for the older generation to accept. I often deal with patients (70-75+) who have such a negative feeling about using mj that they would rather suffer then try it. If I can't make the case for it at my age I trot out my housemate Tonto, who is 91 and show them what a help it has been to him. Many of my older patients have thier childeren who are in thier late 50's to early 60's who are pushing them to "at least" try it. And that has helped alot in bringing mmj to those that could use it.

[oldmac]

Hey Crabbyback,

You probably missed it 'cause I posted it in basic growing, and lots of us skip over that or make it a last stop after our favorite areas. I put this here because I thought selecting a mom was a basic concept, tho in retrospect maybe it's an advance technique.

I don't mind being stalked, at least by you. When I first started out here it seemed I had a few anti-fans who stalked me just to knock my questions or answers. That type of stalking I don't need, makes me get real cranky real fast. BTW I see you posting more, passing on good info and trying to help those that could appreciate it. Good job.

Yo Dutch,

I'll try to post some more pics soon. I kicked myself last night for not having my camera with me. I had to move all 10 shivs skunks that are in flower for watering, it would have been a perfect time to line them up and get pictures of the girls together. :D Everybody say cheese:D

[Dutch Pimp]

"You can lead a horse to water, but, you can't make them drink"

[phatsesh101]

adult crowd its a darn senior center in here pretty soon youll be asking me to find the remote

does your roomy remember the pre prophibition era, and did he puff back then stuff from the pharmacy?

[oldmac]

Hey now you young whippersnapper, you better respect your elders. (I had to look at your profile before I was sure you are that young)
Got to admit tho, you're probably right. It's funny, I live in samll town usa, and the generations seem to get on better in the rural areas then most, IMHO. When I see those retirement villages in Florida I really get a nervous feeling.....you know they lock old people away in these gated prisons! Or worst more like soylent green.

My housemate, Tonto, is a proud Mohawk indian who did high steel work all his life. Walking on steel beams 40-60 floors high with no safety equipment. He believes mj is sacred, a gift from the gods. He has used mj before in his life, and has been using it medically and spiritually for the last 12 years. He's lived with me the last 11, stage 4 cancer the entire time...yet he keeps on tickin'.

[oldmac]

OK, I promised a class picture. Room is so small tho I can't get back far enough to show thier full height. Such tall girls, here they are the original 10 plants from seed, in bloom.

And since it's July 4th....Happy Birthday America!:thumbsup:

[crabbyback]

adult crowd its a darn senior center in here pretty soon youll be asking me to find the remote

does your roomy remember the pre prophibition era, and did he puff back then stuff from the pharmacy?
My sister (my MUCH older sister) remembers our grandfather getting mj pre-rolled in a package from the drug store. He worked in the SC textile mills, was said to be asthmatic but probably had brown lung from cotton mill dust. He supposedly smoked to help him breathe better (expectorant properties of mj?)

[phatsesh101]

i had a roomate who would always call me to help him find his remote, just a memory that popped into my head with all the old talk. couldnt get him to smoke though, would have probly helped him greatly. my gma could probly benefit also but the look in her eye when i mentioned it, but her ten year younger bro darn 60s :hippy: nobody knows for sure but i knows, lived in humboldt since the 70s:wtf: so isee what your sayin bout the outlook by generation.

in my safety class ive seen footage of high steel workers early 1900s and that is some crazy stuff especially after a liqiud lunch, no elevators just climbing I beams people falling daily, takes balls.

i help some of the elderly around my area that come to the meetings, with meds and growing their own since their medi-medi wont cover mmj and the cost of meds is insane. i hear stories of years past and have yet to actually speak to anyone who remembers being able to purchase cannabis or hemp at a drug store.

you guys seem fiesty so i joke but i know ill be ther in another 50 years, i do have to quetions your age cause you seem to be able to handle the internet and a digital camera rather well :D happy fourth

[oldmac]

Hey phatsech,

I really hate to admit this.....but I've just had a "senior moment", I was sure I had posted a reply yesterday to you, but I don't see it now! LOL It was a good one too. Maybe it was the home made corn squeezin's from yesterday, sorta a 4th of July thing with me, I make it once a year just because I'm not suppose to. BTW, This fiesty group seems to have a very good scence of humor so joking around is encouraged.

I commend you for helping out people in need with mmj, that's what I've been doing for abt 20 years now, long before people even used the term medical marijuana. But I've always called it my medicine!

Yo crabbyback,

I guess I'm not old enough to remember pharmacy dispenced mj, heard of it but never knew anyone who had used it. The first year I was on the farm in SC I had three asthma attacks and had developed a bad wheeze. My aunt took me to the docter who recommended I smoke "corn silk" to help clear my lungs, also an expectorant I guess. So at age 11 is was rolling dried corn tassles to smoke, but progressed to adding "wildwood weed" to it by age 12. Not sure it helped my asthma or wheeze but it sure made the walk to school and back easier.

[oldmac]

While I'm in the shit and giggles dept, I mention earlier in the thread I started some auto flower stuff.
I already said I've been disappointed by the LR2xsanta maria; only 4 of 5 beans popped, and none showed "auto" traits (or short size) so they went into the bloom room where a few weeks later 2 went hermie. Oh well.

But the 3 LR2xAK47's are doing very well in the veg room with 20hrs of light a day. They are getting nice size buds and look very promising.

So here's a pic or 3 of some nice autoAK47.:)

[headshake]

the auto AK doesn't look too shabby. what size pot do you have that thing in mac?

-shake

[oldmac]

6" diameter pot (abt the same ht). Don't know what it holds, I know alot of you go how much volume it holds like by 1/2gal or 1 gallon or even 5 gallon.

I didn't have anything smaller.;)

[headshake]

it's all good. i'm just trying to get a feel for pot size/plant size (yeah i know the general 1' of stem per gallon of pot size), transplanting, finishing pots and overall plant size. you know, that type of stuff. (if that made any sense?)


-shake

[oldmac]

I don't subscribe to that 1'/gal theory, unless you are growing in a soil with organic material and nutrients built in.

IMHO if you are using liquid nutes, in a medium devoid of nutrients (like pro-mix), the size of the pot does not really matter. As long as the plant gets what it needs to grow, it will grow as big as you let it. I've grown and flowered 4'-5' plants in 4" square pots and if you looked at them from stem up, you could not tell they where in itty-bitty pots.

Now I don't really reccomend that big in such a small pot because it causes other problems. Like needing a watering at least once a day or more and when they get that big they want to fall over 'cause their feet are so small, get very top heavy you know.

(I can hear nashing of teeth, and an angry mob headed to thier keyboards);)

[Italiano715]

I don't subscribe to that 1'/gal theory, unless you are growing in a soil with organic material and nutrients built in.

IMHO if you are using liquid nutes, in a medium devoid of nutrients (like pro-mix), the size of the pot does not really matter. As long as the plant gets what it needs to grow, it will grow as big as you let it. I've grown and flowered 4'-5' plants in 4" square pots and if you looked at them from stem up, you could not tell they where in itty-bitty pots.

Now I don't really reccomend that big in such a small pot because it causes other problems. Like needing a watering at least once a day or more and when they get that big they want to fall over 'cause their feet are so small, get very top heavy you know.

(I can hear nashing of teeth, and an angry mob headed to thier keyboards);)

I can totally relate with that. I had a plant growing in a 3 gallon pot and another in a 4 gallon pot. Needless to say the 3 gallon potted plant gave me the bigger yield. So, I guess it's all on your feeding them more so then how big they are.

[headshake]

i gotcha oldmac. makes perfect sense.

i guess i'm just trying to establish a good routine, for convenience's sake.


-shake

[crabbyback]

I don't subscribe to that 1'/gal theory, unless you are growing in a soil with organic material and nutrients built in.

IMHO if you are using liquid nutes, in a medium devoid of nutrients (like pro-mix), the size of the pot does not really matter. As long as the plant gets what it needs to grow, it will grow as big as you let it. I've grown and flowered 4'-5' plants in 4" square pots and if you looked at them from stem up, you could not tell they where in itty-bitty pots.

Now I don't really reccomend that big in such a small pot because it causes other problems. Like needing a watering at least once a day or more and when they get that big they want to fall over 'cause their feet are so small, get very top heavy you know.

(I can hear nashing of teeth, and an angry mob headed to thier keyboards);)

I agree about pot size. I keep my mothers in 1 gal. pots in a peat/perlite based soil mix. I root trim and repot once a year, flush about every 8 weeks. Sure I would like them in larger pots but increasing pot size causes my back to get crabby-er.

Blooming plants go into 1.5 gal hempy containers, in perlite and vermiculite, with regular nutes. When the containers are dry, they weigh almost nothing.

My very first grow was soil based, in 3 gal. containers, and I grew way too many plants at once. I swore if I ever got through that I would never do it again. The containers were almost impossible for me to lift or even move when wet.

I've toyed with doing a thread on the topic for others that may be falling apart like me ;)... I may get inspired, who knows.

You have quite the operation there mac. Hats off to you.

[oldmac]

Actually the pics you see from my partnered grow show it is really a crude operation. I'm growing in containers, with p-mix, and doing slightly larger plants then I do in my personal grow. We are using this method because that is what my partner knows and was comfortable with. I hadn't grown this way in about ten years, and I now remember why I went in another direction. He has come around on a lot of things tho, including LEDs which he did not want to use when we started 10 months ago and now wants 6 more TI pro blooms.

He's also seen me prove thru actual growing, that alot of things that are common held beliefs (he had them too) are just plain wrong. Such as size of containers, length of time needed to veg, various photoperiod manipulations, that many small plants stuffed into an area will out produce a few large plants in the same space, etc, etc.

At some point I'll be putting at least one of the aero/fog ponic trays I've built into production and then we'll move to growing with no media at all. Something you might want to consider some day. No dirt or p-mix, no hydrtron, no damn RW, just 2" net pots and neoprene collars to hold the stem. Requires no strength to lift anything heavy, just the gallon jugs that nutes come in. In fact some of the trays I've built for others will grow from cuttings to flower in the same machine, and in one case the same light (well a small T5 actinic white during rooting of the cuttings is used instead of the main light)

That's my dream and my deal with my partner, state of the art growing (LED + fog) and a system that he can run efficently so I can retire my grow. He then starts supplying the groups I work with medicine so that when I pass on someone keeps doing what I've been at for many years. I'd like to think I can go on forever but I'm on borrowed timme now. I only hope we can get it all done soon, but problems have set the project back.:(

[Horsemanrocks]

You have me worried friend....I hope all is well.

Namaste
Horsemanrocks.

[oldmac]

You have me worried friend....I hope all is well.

Namaste
Horsemanrocks.

I'm doing fine, at this time, but I have battled artiral disease since I was in my 50's. I have 1 carotid artery comepletely closed and the other 1 is 60% closed plus had a heart attack this past fall from a 100% clog in the LV distal. They stented it and it's fine but now have about 35% heart function, they talked about putting in a pacemaker (really a built in defibulator) and I balked at that. Figure I got a chance to die clean and not suffer too much with another attack or could now get lucky and die in my sleep. I've feared having a masive stroke and being paralized partialy and then lingering for years like my older brother did. While I'm being so upbead....

....earlier tonight I was with a frined and patient who was in hospice care, and he past away peacefully with his family and a few friends with him. Not only passed in his own home with some dignity, but he died in the same bedroom he was born in 86 years ago. Somehow I thought that was pretty great. Sort of a portal type of thing.

Yeah so while I have no plans to go yet, I am practical about it, I know it's coming. I have a slight eastern philosiphy about it all, and tonight I saw the portal of birth and death; your last breath is no different then your first breath.

I also stopped by the grow and things look good with the shiva skunks that are in flower. We gave them a new 1000w bulb a few days ago, and even tho the old one was in 9 months (I figure about 3500hrs use) and the bulb has a supposed life of 20,000hrs you can see an improvement in the plants. When they rate HPS bulbs with "initial" lumens they really mean initial.

[crabbyback]

Not here :sadcrying.

I certainly understand your logic and agree with you 100%. The powers willing, we will all go in our sleep or without suffering too much, like your friend.

I know how you feel about living on borrowed time. My genetic profile doesn't look real good for longevity (dad @ 44, mom @ 55).

But I say, fuckit, we ain't dead today!

In the meantime, I'm hoping you are able to retire and relax here on cancom with us until you are 103. I've become awfully attached to you, dammit.

[phatsesh101]

the portal of birth and death? is that a movie?


NEW BULBS FRICKIN KICKASS for like a week:stoned:

[oldmac]

Hey Crabby,

Don't nobody ever feel bad for oldmac, like Frank sang, "I did it my way". I have had such a wealthy life maybe not in money but in every other way. I didn't mean to get so serious about my health, it was the effect of sleep deprevation (I'm a lunatic and effected by the full moon) being really vaped and toasted plus I still have a couple of jugs of 'shine left from my July 4th still run. I really should not be allowed to operate a keyboard.;)

Sorry abt your genetics, my dad pasted young. Some parents leave thier children money or stocks and bonds maybe even a business or farm....my dad left his two sons with arterial disease. Gotta keep in mind that people and pot plants are very much alike, how well and when you finish is based on genetics.

[Weezard]

I'd like to repeat that.
For those of us on meds.

"Gotta keep in mind that people and pot plants are very much alike, how well and when you finish is based on genetics. " -Old Mac


Mahalo!

Weeze

[oldmac]

Hey WeeZard, I think one of the posts I lost last night/morning was too you. You know ti's the N.Korean's that are screwing up our forums.

It was Geez Weez you too qouteing me. or ..Et Tu Weezta
Now here you go and do it again. I must be pithy...another likeness to a pot plant! Actually I laid that one there (knowing it was quote able) hoping Crabby would like it and maybe use it instead of that other one (you know a constnat reminder I'm a limp dick.) Hey and I just thought about it recently...I'm an orphan.

BTW I hope the thread police aren't out tonight I might get a TUI, typing under the influence. Wow everything is kickin' in.

A couple of pics of some small, immature bud ok two that got knocked off the auto AK47. Just had to try it and see what type of taste it was going to had...found out it was psycoactive too, which is a good thing. Also a pic of the plant ithey cam from and test equipment.:thumbsup:

Damn iI used a blury one for #4 I'm sorry ( I takt 6 to get one good one)

[oldmac]

A clear one or twoe or more of the auto AK. I realize everythings blurry to me, this should be fun figurin out a good on3e.

a
And also a helpfull hint from oldmac to vapor users with whips ( not that type of whip)) to keep your plastic tubing from kinking (not that type of kink) use a pieve of spring from the hardware store to fit inside the plastic tubing tight, I also use on e at the mouth piece witha copper screen between glas and spring ofr last catch at any flying debri.

[oldmac]

:wtf: Wow, some mornings when I see how bad I was typing and spelling, I realize how fucked up I must have been the night before.

I need to apoligize ahead of time more, never know what I might post that could offend.

[phatsesh101]

its alright mac we all do it

[Horsemanrocks]

Just checking in......whoa!.....just checking out.

[oldmac]

Just a few to show the girls off. A couple of pics of the "moms in waiting" These are the cuttings taken from the original 10 plants that are now vegging untill the original plants that are in flower finish. Plus a couple of shots of the original plants...damn they are tall, but exactly what Sensi said they'd be abt 145cm, whatever that means.:)

[sarah louise]

145 cm is about 4'8'', I think Sensi list it as 125cm, closer to 4'1''... looking good which ever measurement system you use.

[oldmac]

Thanks sarah louise for keeping an old man honest. The tallest is about 4' and the shortest is about 3'8". I know from talking to knna that 120cm is about 4', at least when we are talking about T5 fluoresecent tubes, guess it should be same for plants.;)

I'm impressed with how similar they all are in size, node spacing, rooting, etc. The variations are slight so it seems like a very stable strain...wouldn't expect different from Sensi. Seems like a good strain for a hobbyist who can only grow 1 or 2 plants at a time. I hadn't thought about it much again till now, but I was hoping for more varitation between seeds to show it was usefull to grow out a bunch to pick 1 good mom. Oh well can't fudge a scientific experiment unless your a drug company.

[phatsesh101]

i have 2 mothers from a batch of vannaluna and they are very similar in appearance #5 is a lil bigger and has heavier buds but #4 has so much better aroma like blueberry and flavor is better also and structure.

so its important to grow out many. looks like i got a good one out of 10 sweetness

[oldmac]

There are some differences here for sure too. A couple shown signs of being weaker to root then some others. In a few more weeks we will be in a better postion as to smell and then potency potential of them. Looking at the first 10 in flower last night I was impressed at how nice the buds had started to fill out and the trichome production, even on leafs now is going good.

[phatsesh101]

I have to do 5 at a time do to space restrictions, dont wanna disrupt the flow of meds.

but i got a blueberry dom one which was what i wanted and a variegated one which is the sweetest plant i have ever smelled trichome coverd but not to many buds but out of all one female sofar seem to be superior.


what i have noticed is most seeds semm to be similar but the trick is to plant enough to find the diamond in a hand full of cubic zirconia

[oldmac]

what i have noticed is most seeds semm to be similar but the trick is to plant enough to find the diamond in a hand full of cubic zirconia

I guess that brings us back to why I'm doing this...I'm mineing for a diamond.
Just wish it didn't take so long.:)

[oldmac]

Here's 3 pics of the original Shiva Skunks in flower, packing on the trichomes.
Only a few pics I took came out clear, these seem the sharpest. Some day I figure out this cam and do better.

[Dutch Pimp]

I guess that brings us back to why I'm doing this...I'm mineing for a diamond.
Just wish it didn't take so long.:)


...all you need; is a lump of coal and a little pressure....:thumbsup:

[oldmac]

...but I'm going to be a diamond some day. -Billy Joe Shaver

Great song with great lyrics, Shaver shoud be the "poet laureate" of Texas.

Speaking of energy, I've had a real pain since Sat evening when some "citidiot" ran his suv into a utility pole near the end of my driveway. Knocked the electric out, came home late to find no electric. Then could not get my generator to start. Sunday still no luck with gen, but remembered my old motorhome has a 6kw gen and that started right up. But the damn motor in the motorhome would not start and could not get the rig close enough to the house to use it. Finally found and borrowed enough heavy duty extension cords (300' worth) to reach the house yesterday afternoon, then the power came back. I think God is testing me, again.

[Dutch Pimp]

like I said...a little pressure

[oldmac]

Dutch, I really don't need that kind of pressure.

For you and crabbyback,
and to carry over to here our discussion of sterilizing grow media...where did I suggest to you two to bake it in your oven in your house?

You could consider baking it outside, say in a gas bbq grill. Or you can lay it out thinner on a sheet pan, or right on concrete and flame it with a torch. Or steam is an option. Get a handheld steam cleaner (btw they are great for cleaning out reservoirs, buckets and the like) and steam your mix. I happen to have and old electric stove in my garage I use to bake powder coated small car parts, but has been used to bake homemade soil mixes many times.

Hey crabby I was disappointed and a little hurt you took down my quote and then I started to feel bad cause I think you did it cause of what I said to weez. I was only joking about seeing that every day, I get reminded other ways everyday;). Anyway I hope you don't mind I used one of the funniest things I had read by you, hope you can ease my mind about the removal.

Hey here's an off topic pic, the stuffed animal that sleeps with me everynite.
On OUR bed.

[crabbyback]

Dutch, I really don't need that kind of pressure.

For you and crabbyback,
and to carry over to here our discussion of sterilizing grow media...where did I suggest to you two to bake it in your oven in your house?

You could consider baking it outside, say in a gas bbq grill. Or you can lay it out thinner on a sheet pan, or right on concrete and flame it with a torch. Or steam is an option. Get a handheld steam cleaner (btw they are great for cleaning out reservoirs, buckets and the like) and steam your mix. I happen to have and old electric stove in my garage I use to bake powder coated small car parts, but has been used to bake homemade soil mixes many times.

Hey crabby I was disappointed and a little hurt you took down my quote and then I started to feel bad cause I think you did it cause of what I said to weez. I was only joking about seeing that every day, I get reminded other ways everyday;). Anyway I hope you don't mind I used one of the funniest things I had read by you, hope you can ease my mind about the removal.

Hey here's an off topic pic, the stuffed animal that sleeps with me everynite.
On OUR bed.

Sorry oldmac, didn't mean to jump to conclusions re: soil sterilization. But to tell you the truth, I'd rather search for an alternative than fight the little bastards. Also, crabby hates cooking of any kind, so cooking for plants is way down on the list. But, if I had your setup, I imagine I'd be doing it (and bitching the entire time).

:Sigh:
Concerning the siggy quote, please don't feel hurt, it was never my intent. I decided you were right when you were talking to Weeze. Who in their right mind needs to be reminded of that shit while on cancom? I wouldn't want to be reminded that my once fine rack is navel-bound either. So, chalk it up to bad judgment on my part. :o

Oldmac, you and many others tend to drop pithy pearls of prose* regularly, so I shouldn't have a problem. I've even got some stashed for the appropriate time. ;)

I hope we've kissed and made up? :s3::s2:

*(:wtf:... I'm reading entirely too many Weezard posts)

[Weezard]

's mostly "beach cat barf" very sparsely pearled.


Dem ol' zard jus' cain't he'p it.

He go bopping 'roun' da bushes den he licklin' him toes.
'fore I know it, he's gone all pithy again.:stoned:
Den come dat terrible prose.

Doggerel, actually.
But thanks for noticing.

(Dat's one crazy lizard, yah?)
Wee

[oldmac]

Weezard, you're so pithy you're a pither. That's why I don't want you on my ceiling.

Crabby, I feel a little better, but I still regret saying that to Weez (I didn't mean to make you feel bad :( ) In the words of DH, it's all good :thumbsup:
On another subject I got a question for you (Maybe Dutch too) I know you've said you have run Whitw Widow. How long do your cuttings take to root? The reason I ask, my partner had gotten some clones from a friend. We grew a couple out for moms and short vegged the orthers then bloomed. I like how quick it finished (6-6 1/2 wks), tasted and vaped/smoked. But when I took cuttings to run (a double batch) I put 120 cuttings in the EZ-cloner and at 5days nothing. At 14days abt 6 where ready to transplant, at 21 days another 18 or so, the rest I don't know. I shit canned the rest at day 24 I was so pithed with them. No way to keep to a schedule with results like that. I tried again trying to start them in RW, with the same results. I think it is just a poor gene selection, but maybe it's the strain but I have yet to see any complaints around here about WW rooting.

[crabbyback]

Well, I appreciate you asking me oldmac, that makes me feel good. I don't feel that I have enough experience with MJ at this point to give you much of an answer though.

My WW is from Flying Dutchman, started from fem'ed seed last fall. I bloomed some from seed my first run with it. Next run, I cloned off the best female that I kept and ran just that strain during the winter. Being a laizze faire type of gardener, I don't write much down, but I do not recall WW taking more time than any of the other 4 strains. And, all clones of WW rooted, no duds. As an aside: because I had nowhere to put all of the clones I took (all bloom areas were overstuffed ), I ended up composting all but the 4 WW. :rolleyes:

I cloned that batch using peat pots (uh oh, I hear rumbles from the gallery) with bottom heat and a humidity dome. I think all the strains, not just the WW, rooted within 7 to 10 days.

As you see, I've run her twice. Once from seed and once from clone. Once in 3 gals. of soil, once in 1.5 gal hempy. Second time results much better but only because it dried perfectly.

[phatsesh101]

my WW did good usually pretty prompt around week2 after cutting 10-14 days unless i was neglecting her. now i make sure the mums r in tiptop shape b4 cutting. I think she might have liked cooler cloning temps since she used to run along side my MK.

[Weezard]

Aloha O. M.:)

Had varying results with the widow.

Had one root in 4 days!
Had 4 that took 15-16 days
Had 10 that failed completely!
3 weeks and not a sausage.
Then they shriveled n died.

Did a small double blind with 4 cuttings.

Put 2 in aerated rainwater and 2 in aerated tap water.
Wanted to see if chloramine inhibited rooting.
[attachment=o223119]
The rainwater cuttings shrank in size and did not root!
It's like the too pure water was sucking the life out of them.
After 2 weeks, I switched them to tap water and they rooted in 4 more days.
Still puny and dwarfed though. :(
Prolly have to" set them free" in a vacant lot.

Yah, cheap guy nevah t'row nuttin' away.:D

My tapwater is about 120 ppm, PH ~7.2,
Haloacetic acids (HAA5) 1.18ppb
Trihalomethanes (TTHMs) 6.93ppb
Nitrates 1.10ppm
Sodium 32ppm

The tapwater cuttings stayed lush and green all the way!
Looks like a little chloramine is a good thing.

The amount and quality of light makes a difference.
Temperature/humidity makes a difference
And, according to Lolagal, Astrology, makes a difference.;)

The major determinate though appears to be what the mom was planning/doing when you take the cutting.

If she has just started a growth spurt, you can get roots from a fan leaf!
If she's sulking, well. mo' betta siddown, gonna be a while.

OK that's about 6 cents.
I gonna shut up now.
Gotta nip down from da ceiling an go take a civilized* pith.

*(Outside da drip line)

Wee Zard

[sarah louise]

Thanks sarah louise for keeping an old man honest. The tallest is about 4' and the shortest is about 3'8". I know from talking to knna that 120cm is about 4', at least when we are talking about T5 fluoresecent tubes, guess it should be same for plants.;)

Yep, doesn't matter what your measuring the conversion factor is the same ;)


I'm impressed with how similar they all are in size, node spacing, rooting, etc. The variations are slight so it seems like a very stable strain...wouldn't expect different from Sensi.

Excellent, but that's what you paid for, isn't it?


Seems like a good strain for a hobbyist who can only grow 1 or 2 plants at a time. I hadn't thought about it much again till now, but I was hoping for more varitation between seeds to show it was usefull to grow out a bunch to pick 1 good mom. Oh well can't fudge a scientific experiment unless your a drug company.

I'm sure the exercise will show it's worth when you sample the crop. Regardless of how they look now, I am sure they wont smoke identically.

sara.

[oldmac]

I'm sure the exercise will show it's worth when you sample the crop. Regardless of how they look now, I am sure they wont smoke identically.

sara.

Just last nite we tasted a few small buds from two of the Shiva Skunk plants. The taste is going to be very nice and it is quite potent. (we also tasted another auto AK47 and Auto santa maria.) It looks like a lot of work ahead to sample all 10 and to see which are best. But that's the type of work I can handle and won't mind doing at all. :D

[Dutch Pimp]

if you need a test subject?...call me...:rolleyes:

[oldmac]

Crabby,

I value your opinon, you may not have a long history with mj but you've grown other things including ornamentals. And if you can grow plants you can grow weeds. Besides I was looking for expiences with rooting WW and your's are very valid.

phatsesh101 and weezard,

Thanks for your 2 cents and 6 cents respectively, all of the input leads me to believe I'm dealing with a particular plant that was not a good representation of a WW. Seems to have a problem throwing down roots. Exactly why I'm going thru the time and trouble to grow out 10 shiva's, to find a mom that has it all; potency, good growth and the ability to root easily. And as I have seen already at least 2 of the 10 are a little lacking in that depatrment.

We decided to harvest the first of the three AutoAK47's, we are going to probably take 1/week to see the difference between them based on total time. Here's a couple of pics of the first and shortest of that group. Taste is good and potency excellent already. We are thinking that scince we have a light going for our mom's and for veggin plant starts, growing 3-4 autos along side is kinda like growing these for free. Probably are going to keep doing more.

[oldmac]

if you need a test subject?...call me...:rolleyes:

Hey I can always use another set of taste buds doing this work. :D Especially someone with your experience. Must admit with just 2 guys sampling last nite we got a little toasted just from three samples. And two of those samples are about 2 weeks from really being finished.

How long would it take you to get here? :jointsmile:

[Dutch Pimp]

How long would it take you to get here? :jointsmile:

I can be there in a week to ten days...depending,
on the direction I'm going....and whether it's uphill or not?...:stoned:

[crabbyback]

I can be there in a week to ten days...depending,
on the direction I'm going....and whether it's uphill or not?...:stoned:

Yo, Dutch, stop by and get me. Sounds like OM needs all the help he can get from us "power" stoners.

ps. I drove from GA to Anchorage AK in 8.5 days. :jointsmile:

[phatsesh101]

if shes old you might want to grow one of the cuts out and replace the mum

do you have a veg period ?

my ww was an excellent sog producer 14-20g dry per cola in a one gal with 2 weeks veg, flower under a 400hps in lless than optimal environment, i didnt like her tho made my roids flare.

[oldmac]

if shes old you might want to grow one of the cuts out and replace the mum

do you have a veg period ?

my ww was an excellent sog producer 14-20g dry per cola in a one gal with 2 weeks veg, flower under a 400hps in lless than optimal environment, i didnt like her tho made my roids flare.

My partner had gotten a couple of clones from someone else. We grew out them, took cuts for moms, then flowered the originals. I like the way it grew had lots of potential for SOG size plants. I also liked the short flower time (abt 6 1/2 wks) frosty appearence and it wasn't a bad smoke or vape. Not as strong as the WRhino I do, but nice none the less.

So the mom's I have are not stale, it's just been a bitch to root. This is definitely the result of a poor mom selection in the first place. I know of the guy they came from and he is a grow out a seed or two type. At some point I'll get some other WW to try, I already have a bit going on. After this selection of a Shiva Skunk mom or two, I'll grow out 10 Barney's seeds of Master Kush, plus we have some other seeds to go thru.

[oldmac]

First part on topic: The mother in waitings were getting way too big and needed to get cut back while waiting for original 10 plants to finish blooming.
So scince we were going to cut 'em, might as well clone them. So we took 120 cuttings from abt 30 potential moms and thru them in the clonner....so we may be rooting from all but will probably cut that down when we know which plant(s) become super mom(s).

[attachment=o223720]

Off in shits and giggles land, the only clear pic I got of the last autoAK47 to be harvested.:D

[attachment=o223721]

[Horsemanrocks]

To me, (newbish) counter-intuitive. I would have momâ??d first, cloned second, then flowered the clones. I see the efficiency factorâ?¦â?¦but isnâ??t it more difficult to take clones from plants already in flower. Teach me master!

I donâ??t care what they say,
Horsemanstillrocks.

[oldmac]

To me, (newbish) counter-intuitive. I would have momâ??d first, cloned second, then flowered the clones. I see the efficiency factorâ?¦â?¦but isnâ??t it more difficult to take clones from plants already in flower. Teach me master!

I donâ??t care what they say,
Horsemanstillrocks.

Let me just recap the sequence here:
1) germinated and grew out the original 10 SS seeds (now tagged A-J)
2) took clones from the originals, at least 2/plant, 3-4 in some cases
3) put the original 10 plants into flower
4) when clones rooted, transplanted to containers (abt 30 plants) and vegged
5) took cuts for clones from these 30 plants (now 120 clones)
and that brings us up to current point.

I could have grown the original seeds, taken clones and flowered those clones while retaining the 10 original plants but; a) wanted to "taste" the original 10 and b) quicker to have "mom's in waiting" so I can get the strain into a production run. Also insurance that there is a least 2 plants from each of the originals so if something happen to one it would not be lost.
It's so much quicker it causes the small problem I had here, what to do with the 30 waiting moms when they got to big during veg...just make more clones.

Hope that clears up any confussion, not sure it will tho ;). I know I'm still confussed :D.
These 120 clones are ready to transplant, after I do that and vegged a short while, I hope to get the originals tasted but if not ready I'll select abt 50 to do a run in flower based on the notes showing the best 4 or so originals. Later that will become 1 or 2 mom lines to work from.
Excess plants at this stage I usually do 1 of 2 things; destroy if questionable in any way, pass on excess good plants to other cancer/hospice groups in other towns where I have helped to establish small simple grows for them. In most of these grows people are not interested in keeping moms and clonning etc., they have 1 or 2lights and just need to grow out a few to a bunch of plants. I always have greater cloning capacity then final flower space.

Once this selection process is done, and I start to run batches, I will repeat this process by growing out 10 femmed Barneys' Master Kush and going thru it all again. It takes time to do this whole process, but that's what it takes.

[Horsemanrocks]

Sorry Macâ?¦.my bad. I guess the wait erased my limited memory. It appears that I shouldnâ??t try to â??chew gumâ?� and do anything else at the same time.
Thanks for not reprimanding me to go back and read.

Retardrocks.

[phatsesh101]

i put the seed mothers in also to get an idea of plant growth and stucture but mainly because they tend to need bigger pots then clones.

almost the same thing i do exactly, but I keep the diamond all for myself and only the lesser get released, it gives me a bargaining tool with other growers who dont release genetics.

[oldmac]

Hey Horseman,

That was a legit question by all means, I am more off topic then on, and I even realized I was doing a poor job of sharing additional info. My problem has been the grow logs are at the grow, and if I don't remember too take notes and bring home with me.....well it don't get typed here.

The whole sequence needed to be recapped and I'm glad you asked.


Yo' P101,

Your point about seeing what the originals will do in structure and growth is spot on. Currently we have these original ten at abt 4' tall in the flower room and it is a pain in the ass (plus 2 4' tall "lowryders" sic). I try to never grow that large normally indoors, I'm a strong believer in cuttin em, root em, flower em.

I'm not really passing on genetics to anybody, tho if they wanted too clone them it's fine by me. I was really just making the point that when people see a 120 cloner stuffed, it looks like we are running much larger then we are. I donate the plants to various groups that are involved in providing mmj to people thru certian charitable groups. In my personal grow over 60% is given away to sick or dying people who need it, the rest pays the electric bills and expenses. Just don't want to give the impression I have a large commercial grow going here.

[phatsesh101]

yeah its kind of unfortunate in california our plant limit is 6 and that is great for an outdoor grow but puts me waaay over my weight limit of half pound per person. on an avg of a pound per = 6 pounds

indoor sog is a much more efficient in electric cost and all around, space wise, nutes etc.as an indoor style of grow. but 120 plants is only a single 1000watts light, and might get you a pound and a half with each plant producing on avg of 7 grams per. and when your not making money effiency is priceless

they way i see it is the weight limit keeps me from growing outside, and the plant limit keeps me from growing inside.

I know what you mean people just see a 120 plants not the way theyre grown.

[oldmac]

Update: Last nite marked 6 1/2 weeks in flower for the original 10 shiva skunks, by trichome color (currently all milky with a few amber) they probably could go a few more days....but we've had it, like my partner said last night "I can't stand them tall plants anymore". And honestly they bother me more, just not compatable to the rest of the stuff growing.

So we harvested the original 10, and now they can dry. But we started tasteing...plants C, I, F, J.

"C" was my favorite while growing, the shortest and tightest bud spacing...tasted OK, good representation.

"I" was a fav of both of us growing, shorter then average...tasted very nice, more citrus flavor the "C".

"F" & "J" grew taller but had good bud formation...both tasted good, but we were getting way too screwed up to be objective and tasteing was called off due to it.

We'll try do do some more tonite. :thumbsup:

[oldmac]

Couple of nites ago we tasted the "B" and "E" plants. E was ok tasting and fairly potent. The "B" plant had outstanding taste, very citrus, herbal flavor and seemed to be the most potent tasted to date. We decided not to try to taste 4 in one nite like last time, it just gets too confusing, or we get too screwed up.:thumbsup:

Last nite we tried 2 more. This time my partner took samples and would not tell me which plants, till after. The first tasted like most others, good and pretty good head was plant "H". The second, I immediately said this is just as citrusy as the B plant from the other day and maybe just as strong. Turned out to be "B" plant from the other day. He just wanted to see if it was that much better then the others so far, and it is (or trying to see if my old taste buds really do still work). Still have a few more to go. Only 2 of the 6 tasted so far have that flavor and clearly 1 is the most potent so far. But hey the search continues.

[oldmac]

Did a small taste of three plants (A, D, G) and all three tasted like most of the others, good taste and potency. The "D" had a nicer smell then some and had a citrus taste that only a few plants have shown, but it has a strike against it earlier due to slow rooting.

We then tried one from the first nite go round, "I". Very nice citrus/grapefruit taste and then we realized why everything went down hill the first nite. This plant really has much more potency then the rest, and might be the "strongest" of the bunch. Damn it was good.

Tommrow nite we will continue; going back for a 2nd (or third) taste of some of the favorites. We really can't wait for these plants to dry out and cure some.....so that we can get to roll a few up and taste them that way. :jointsmile:

[sarah louise]

Both I and B are sounding like your stand outs... hope they continue to improve with curing.

Not long here until the spring planting begins, can't hardly wait to get my skunk#1 fems started.

sara :jointsmile:

[oldmac]

What we have found is the "I" plant is alot stronger then any of the others. It is definately the diamond we were mining for. Plus "B, F & D" are all a close second, so we are going to keep for the time being all of those for now. The F has the best plant structure overall slightly larger bud sites then the rest. After we run another batch of clones from those 4 we will see how to determine the mom. (may have to breed the best two together, if that's what it takes).

Skunk#1 outdoors is going to be very nice for you, I'm sure. My partner is very partial to skunks and used to grow them as field crop, he still kicks himself for letting the genetics get away from him years ago...probably why we started with the shiva skunks this time here.

Good luck with it, I envy you growing outside.:thumbsup: (tho I don't miss nasty storms a week or so from harvest time, lol)

[oldmac]

It's offical, after much tasteing including dried product, the "I" plant is the strongest of all 10 original plants. It also passed the rooting test for cuttings and had pretty decent structure. :thumbsup: This one is a winner and worth the effort of growing out and hunting for the best. :D