funny leaf growth?

[phatsesh101]

E-indoor
E-soil,
CSL-Soil type/brand MG organic
SCL-Anything you have added to the soil
SCLR-Soil or slab runoff pH 6.8
E-Water source, tap
E-Source water pH 7
E-Age of plant, 2 months
E-Type of fertilizer, fish emulsion and sea kelp
E-Rate of application, every other water
E-Lighting source and distance from plant, 100 t5 ho
E-Air temperature 68-84 is fluxuation but generally stays between 72-82
E-Air % Relative humidity 40
E-Lighting schedule 17-7
E-Type of ventilation your room has passive with fans

[Rusty Trichome]

No other nutes or additives, other than the MG Organic, kelp and fish guts? I'd get a regular nutrient regimin that has been proven for cannabis. (Fox Farms, Botanicare, General Hydroponics...)

Do the bottles say to add the kelp and fish emulsion with every-other watering? If so...what are the brands...? I'd like to have a look. (organics break-down slower than the chemical nutes, so last longer)

[phatsesh101]

alaska fertilizer, indoor plants 2 tsp per qt. water as usual

but i use about that per gallon with a generic maxicrop type liquid that seems to work fine on everything else and been so for about 10 years, a couple tweaks here and there but nothing drastic. i occasionally add some karm and molasses also at a tsp per gal. with everyother feeding

only one out of the five seeds is like that although 3 others have very minor similar traits but the 4 other mothers have nothing wrong.

ive used gh fox farms and bc but my dirty mothers didnt seem to like those types of nutes. the clones on the other hand usually go into a peat based soilless and they luv it and i used them up until about a year ago when i started playing with organics and found a tea that goes in at every water that gives me almost identical results as synthetic and then one day i decided to add some beastie blooms to it and that kicked it in the ass but thats just an anecdote about flower nutes

edit i dont usually use mg i prefer O.F. from F.F. but my limited budget and need to uppot forced a subsitution although i dont believe this is the prob cause i wet and mixed soil prior and only 1 has the trait

[Rusty Trichome]

Kelp and fish emulsion have shitloads of micro's, as does Maxicrop. I think I'd start there. Although the N-P-K ratios may be in line for cannabis, too many micronutes and heavy metals can also do damage.

Alaska Fish Fert? The 5-1-1? It's ph buffered to 4.5 with phosphoric acid. Speaking of which...do you adjust your water, or is it 7 out of the tap? You look to be at the upper limits, so I wouldn't let it stray higher.

I think kelp has sulphur already, so make sure you use unsulphured molasses.

[phatsesh101]

organic unsulphered blackstrap the kind my horsey used to like

and its 7 out of the tap\

yeah i used to ph down to 6 like that other dude when i started using the peat for flower, being soilless and all, but they would do great till about week 6, it would take almost 5 weeks to show ph problem and down the shitter then i quit messin with the ph and kept where it was at after the nutes brought it down 6.5-6.8 and the problem stopped

thanks for the input seems like your the only one takin a shot.

[Rusty Trichome]

7.0 isn't bad pre-nutes. But it doesn't look like a ph issue. It does look like the leaves are retaining water, though. Have you tried Mydol? (kidding)

I'm not much into organics, but I do know they break-down slower, which acts like a time-release for the nutes, metals and micros. I'm just wondering if the micro's (or metals) are slowly accumulating...? Have you flushed lately? Using fresh soil?

Have you tried eliminating one suppliment/additive at a time? The molasses would be the first I'd ditch till it get's figured-out. Then the kelp or fish fert. What did you change, just before the symptoms began?

No foliar sprays that could clog the pores? No overwatering? No voodoo or misread incantations...? (never hurts to ask...)

[phatsesh101]

the soil is new about a month into transplant but the plant had sings of this prior to transplant and post trnsplant. she is still growing and keeping up with the others but she does seem to be a bit of a runt.

yeah ive flushed her until she was pale and added only fish crap til she greened and the same thing funny leaves never changed.

on occaision ill spray 1-40 neem & soap mix

there is a key question missing in the form

[Rusty Trichome]

but she does seem to be a bit of a runt.

yeah ive flushed her until she was pale and added only fish crap til she greened and the same thing funny leaves never changed.

on occaision ill spray 1-40 neem & soap mix


You mentioned that the others are showing similar signs, but to a lesser extent tho? This is a sign to me that although only one is 'runting', the problem is common to all, in varying degrees.

Are you by chance running CO2 or running a sulphur pot, lol? (any additional equipment?)

About the Neem oil. A single application occationally, or a couple of applications back-to-back? Is Neem a permenant part of your schedule? Do you raise the lights till dry, or do you rinse-off the residue?

Old leaves usually never repair. Best I've seen is that they green-up. But usually the plant will not repair leaves, so likely you won't see any improvements till the new growth shows.

Would be nice to have seperate troubleshooting forms for hydro and soil, with a few minor alterations...and I'll bet I could find a few things missing from the troubleshooting form too, but what are you specifically refering to, lol?

[phatsesh101]

no co2 yet or sulphur

the neem only gets used when i see signs of them damn mites generally 2 sprays 5-7 days apart with a rinse or not depending on the amount of spray used but usually its light and every other month or if there is substantial new growth like shortly after a cloning.

Strain (if known): vanilluna is what these are

[Rusty Trichome]

92.375% of the time strain isn't as important as the phenotype. (some numbers fudged to simulate actual knowledge) But yup...that could be included. Along with growers experience level, whether it's their first crop, quality of the genetics (bagseed or seed botique) brand of medium...

For the most part, I treat all my indica doms the same, and since my sativa doms are more sensitive to nutes in flower than the indica's, they are handled a tad different. But not all that different...just less nutes in flower, and a longer flowering cycle.

Have you tried eliminating all non-essentials, and see if there is any improvement? (anything other than the nutrients) If you had success for the past ten years, (with cannabis, right?) what has changed, and why? What have you stopped using, or what did you start using, what isn't available any more, so a substitute is now used...? Are you mixing mediums mid-crop?

Still, my intuition tells me it's likely the micro's and metals in the molasses, the kelp, the Liquid Karma and the fish goop. Were I you, I'd look up the ingredients of those products, and see what you are really adding to your regimin.
Fish goop...hmmmm. Possible mercury poisoning, lol? (or did you break a CFL bulb in the growroom?)

[phatsesh101]

i wrapped my brain on this one for awhile

im almost positive i know what is

the thing is this growth was exibited from the 3rd set of leaves after the cotoly whatevers long before nutes where introduced, i thought it may have been the soil and i flushed it and ket it dry weight method, new growyh the same flushed again leaves started turning pale and needed n so i put toghether a nute mix that all of the other plants love and within a day the dark green came back followed by vigorous growth but still deformed

the other plants of the same strain have this too but it is sporadic

[Rusty Trichome]

Not that I'm complaining, as it's a great learning experience for me too...but couldn't you have remembered this a few days ago, lol? :stoned:

So what are you using for ferts and additives, now, and how's the new growth looking?

[phatsesh101]

i was hoping more might chime in, its a bit different than the normal ph issue
and might come up more often considering dj shorts wider availability but

with that being said nothing has changed my teas are some of the best ferts ive used ease vs. results :thumbsup:

well anyway i have come to the determination that its a variegated vanilluna i guess iwas just getting a second opinion but didnt really wanna just throw the idea out there til most of the bases were covered plus i saw some pics on ic mag.i thought variegated was a typo:D

[Rusty Trichome]

I mentioned what I believe the problem to be. If you wish to keep referencing a seemingly non-existant ph issue, keep on keepin on. But it's beginning to seem this is going nowhere. I've offered what I can, so perhaps another post asking other opinions would be best? But I too am surprised other's haven't chimed-in. Seems lately folks are loving challenging others, yet nobody else accepted this challenge, lol. Yet another curiosity. :jointsmile:

I thought you were saying that the question "what strain" is missing from the troubleshooting form, and you were providing that info.

Couldn't tell ya what strain.

[phatsesh101]

i was not thinking ph at all iwas thinking it was a variegated vanilluna

Vanilluna variegation weirdness - International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums (http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=94684)

check this out, it is what im talking about this guys story is almost exactly like mine and im runnin the same strain same amount of beans same number of funny plants

one real wierd 3 here and there and 1 normal and not quit sure yet but i think im lookin at 2 m 3f

[Rusty Trichome]

I gotta admit...genetic mutation never crossed my mind.

To be honest, I've spent the last few years keeping my genetics as clean as possible, so am a tad intrigued by a reputable breeder like DJ selling what appears to be a mutated strain. I hope this isn't the beginning of pheno degradation in the cannabis world, and is not something I'd breed without strict controls to avoid future contamination of my current strains.

And the thought of vanilla scented/flavored cannabis...does not sound very inviting, lol. Not trying to slam the strain nor the breeder, but like I said...it's intriguing. Prior to this strain, has anyone ever heard of a varrigated strain of cannabis? Seems to me something out-of-the-ordinary is going on there.

[phatsesh101]

yeah it screwed me up to i thought it was my damn soil i was pissed not that i payed much for the beans but to pay for em and ruin em .

after looking i found other strains that variegate which is very normal in alot of plants, not so much in cannabis though but i did see a trainwreck and about three others strains that were similar.

i smoked some dried flowers when i got the beans it has a good buzz and a smooth flavor. also the variegation reported taste better for lack of chlorophyll supposedly, i guess ill be finding out.

seems kinda out of the ordinary in the end to me too. but ill probly play on it like people and their purple. i got that white bud.lol:stoned: