Droopy, rough-textured leaves - can you help?

[ngozer]

Hi All,

I've read through tons of FAQs and threads and can't seem to find one that looks exactly like my problem. If anyone would like to lend me some experience and point my in the right direction I would be very appreciative!

How long has this problem been going on?
1 month
Are you growing in a PVC grow tent? (example: Hydrohut or any other non brand tents)
DIY grow cabinet
What system are you running? (DWC? Ebb flow? Aero? Water Farm? Flood Tables? and so on...)
Hand-watered
What STRAIN are you growing?
Australian Blue (sativa)
What was the establishing technique? (Were the seed or clone?)
Clones
What is the age of your plants?
6 months
How long have they been in there mixture they are in now?(coco,soiless etc..)
6 months
How tall are the plants?
3'
What PHASE are the plants in? (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in?
Vegetative
What Technique are you using?
Hempy Bucket
What substrate/medium are you using?(Hydroton, RockWool etc.)
85% perlite 15% hydroton
What is the Water temperature?
room temp
What color are your roots? White? Brown? Are your roots slimy?
mostly white
What Nutrient's are you using?(If growing soiless)
General Hydroponics nutrients; FloraGrow 2-1-6, FloraMicro 5-0-1, and Florabloom 0-5-4 per manufacturer's instructions.
How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water? *Knowing the brand is very helpful*
How often are you feeding? (If using soiless)
2/day
How often are you giving nutrients? (If using soiless)
Each watering
What is the TDS/EC/PPM you are using?
Recently flushed for 2 days, now at 400 ppm
What is the pH of the "Tank"?
5.8
Are you sure your calibration is correct on your equiptment?
Pretty sure
When was your last watering?
12 hours ago
What is your water temps?
room temp
What size bulb are you using?
400W HPS
What is the distance to the canopy?
5 - 6"
What is your RH Factor(Relative Humidity)?
40-50%
What is the canopy temperature?
mid to high eighties
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include flucutaion range)
mid sixties to high eighties
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.)
about 200 cfm
Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ?
venting 24/7
Is the fan blowing directly at plants?
yes across the tops
What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water?
Bottled distilled.
Are you using water from a water softener?
no
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned off of or pinched
pruned it of dead and dying leaves
Are plant's infected with pest's
fungus gnats

My problem is that the leaves are always droopy. I have looked through lots of pictures, but none seem to look the same. Only about a week ago, they were droopy and were forming "claws." I determined it was probably N toxicity and so after flushing it stopped. Unfortunately the droopiness has not. Also, the way the leaves looks is a bit off. The texture is really rough and not smooth like the other pictures I've seen here. If you look at the pictures, you can see that each leaf looks like its covered with like ridges.

I was wondering if temperature and distance to the light are two separate issues? I.e., Can your plants be extremely close if the temp is okay or will it fuck up the plants just because it's too close?

Thanks... pictures below.

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/9091/twinatop.th.jpg (http://img19.imageshack.us/my.php?image=twinatop.jpg)

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/7269/twinbsidebranch.th.jpg (http://img19.imageshack.us/my.php?image=twinbsidebranch.jpg)

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/3297/twinbtop.th.jpg (http://img19.imageshack.us/my.php?image=twinbtop.jpg)

[ngozer]

I've got a new idea and would appreciate any help.

Since the leaves are wilting and I'm pretty sure it's not overwatering or underwatering, I am thinking that it's due to too much moist transpiration from the fan blowing directly on them. Any validity to that or is that just crazy thinking? I've turned off my fan for the day and will report back tomorrow.

[syde00]

are you able to post any higher resolution pictures? can;t see much in those ones :\ i would be a little hesitent to answer anyways myself as i;m not really familiar with hydro at all

[ngozer]

What the eff?! I did not realize that the pictures were so small. They were suppose to be 1280x1024. Is this site not allow imageshack links? Thank you so much for bringing that to my attention syde00. I will try to fix that ASAP!

[ngozer]

Okay, so I've uploaded the pictures directly. Hopefully they will turn out correctly. I really hope I didn't miss out on some good help 'cause of bad res pictures!

Thanks again syde00 for bringing that to my attention!

[Rusty Trichome]

Canoeing of the leaves is an indication that your ph is off. (the lower fans are canoeing, pix 3) The yellowing of the leaves above the canoeing leaves is the nutrient lockout as a direct result of the ph problem, and adding nutrients won't help. Perhaps after you get the ph figured-out, you can spray them with a weak (1/4 strength) solution of your nutes.

You'll need to adjust the ph of your water, flush well, and try to find a nutrient schedule that allows one or two feedings a week, rather than daily. And yes...there may be an underwatering problem here, too.

If they've been in the same soil for months, it may not be able to retain moisture. Adding 1 tsp of non-antibiotic dishsoap per gallon of properly ph'd water, will help to act as a surfactant* and allow better absorption. One treatment is all that is usually necessary. Also, sitting in the same soil that long can deplete the lime in the soil, which will add to existing ph issues.

[phatsesh101]

i also see that your running distilled, are you adding cal mag?

[Rusty Trichome]

* Crap...forgot about the asterisk. A surfactant mixes with the water, lessening the surface tension. It helps the water absorb into the medium rather than rolling off of it.

[ngozer]

Canoeing of the leaves is an indication that your ph is off. (the lower fans are canoeing, pix 3) The yellowing of the leaves above the canoeing leaves is the nutrient lockout as a direct result of the ph problem, and adding nutrients won't help. Perhaps after you get the ph figured-out, you can spray them with a weak (1/4 strength) solution of your nutes.

You'll need to adjust the ph of your water, flush well, and try to find a nutrient schedule that allows one or two feedings a week, rather than daily. And yes...there may be an underwatering problem here, too.

If they've been in the same soil for months, it may not be able to retain moisture. Adding 1 tsp of non-antibiotic dishsoap per gallon of properly ph'd water, will help to act as a surfactant* and allow better absorption. One treatment is all that is usually necessary. Also, sitting in the same soil that long can deplete the lime in the soil, which will add to existing ph issues.

Whoa! I am stoked I got some big guns like RT to help me out. Thanks for the advice about the pH issues. I am pretty confident that my pH is right, but I will go get some different calibration solution to make sure. Is there any way that it could be caused by something else? On a side note, why is that called canoeing? I always thought of it as clawing. Heh, I've never seen a canoe like that before.

After the flush, I feel as though there was a big improvement. I've taken some pictures and maybe you could tell me what'd you do differently.

As for your advice on feeding, I wasn't sure what you meant by try a different schedule. I am using General Hydroponics Flora series (GENERAL HYDROPONICS (http://generalhydroponics.com/genhydro_US/floraseries.html)). Where might I find a different schedule to try?

Thanks for you help!

PS. Would what you said about using a surfactant apply to my use of perlite/hydroton in a Hempy bucket?

[ngozer]

Oops forgot to load the pictures.

[ngozer]

Bump!

[Italiano715]

On a side note, why is that called canoeing? I always thought of it as clawing. Heh, I've never seen a canoe like that before.

Clawing will be more curled at just the end of the leaves as canoeing goes down and bend inwards towards each other, somewhat like a split pea.

They are looking better though! Seems you figured out your problem!

[ngozer]

Clawing will be more curled at just the end of the leaves as canoeing goes down and bend inwards towards each other, somewhat like a split pea.

They are looking better though! Seems you figured out your problem!

Thanks for your help Italiano! One more question though. My leaves look very rough compared to pictures of other plants online. Any idea what is causing that?