Budget/Refrigerator grow

[Smurph]

The Situation:
I have a side-by-side refrigerator that currently does not work, but I can't do any damage (i.e. cut vent holes) to it because its going to get fixed eventually.

The Box:
Approximate Interior Dimensions (for the side we're using for this):
59" tall (we'll call it 5ft)
18" wide
24" deep

So that's 3sq ft on the bottom, and according to a post in the lighting section, I want 5000lumens/sq ft which is 15,000lumen total.

I'm going with store bought CFLs. I have two in there right now at 1600lumens each (I know, not enough, don't worry I'll get more pretty soon). I'll get a few every week or so until I have 10, and the last few will be 2700k rather than the 6500Ks that I'm currently buying.

Big hurdle: Ventilation. Currently we can't fix the fridge (we're broke), and its not a huge deal because we don't actually NEED it right now (we have a working one in the kitchen, and a mini one in my room to hold a few more drinks or whatever) But... I can't damage it in such a way that would prevent it from being used as a fridge anymore... non-negotiable, we have to work around it. I do have everything taken out of it (shelves, drawers, etc) so it's pretty empty inside, lots of room for growth. But I can't change the air in there every five minutes manually, that's for sure.

I've been brainstorming a bit, and the only hope, as it seems right now, is to build a wall to replace the door. I can take the door off no problem. It will be easily sealed with magnets just like the current door. and I'll just have to put both the exhaust and intake holes there. Maybe even add some ducting to bring one of them to a more opposite point in the overall box to aide in the moving of air. Can I get some opinions on this?

Second thing is, I have a reflector which works fine for the two bulbs in there now, but very soon 2 will be 4, 6, etc, and the reflector is honestly just for one bulb, So I'm going to follow suit and build my own reflector. I estimate I'll put a good 10 bulbs in there. I can do that pretty good with about 5 sockets and 5 splitters under a tub spray painted white. Should I wire them in series or parallel? I think parallel, but I don't wanna fuck that up.

The Botanists:
*botanist term used very loosely
This is my first grow (Aside of putting some seeds in the woods to see where that can get me, and forgetting where I put em!), and the guy who's helping me has done it once before, but with incandescent bulbs, almost no results.

The genetics aren't anything to talk about, just some seeds I got out of a bag. My main goal is experience and maybe some free smoke.

[disrupt86]

without proper ventilation,both intake and exhaust this will never go anywere.you either need to cut out holes at least a exhaust and do a passive system,or dont use the fridge at all.maybe rubber maid containers would be a better way to start.

[dossantos]

If u have garden u r sorted.
Dig a hole.
This is now your fridge of the future.
Throw your cold things in it.
Cover with soil.
Cave man did it.
so can you.
Step 2.
Butcher the fridge.
u will not regret it.
Its only a fridge.

[Smurph]

Butcher the fridge.
u will not regret it.
Its only a fridge.

I sure wouldn't regret it. But, as mentioned above, its not an option. It belongs to my friend's wife and she said no to damaging it (though she's OK with it being the center of our project)

We don't need wife wrath raining down upon us, now do we?

The plants are about 2 inches now, and they've been in the ground for about 2.5 weeks. I'll get pics later

[bigtopsfinn]

Don't worry about reflectors with CFL's... :thumbsup:



Sounds like you could do it if you can replace the door... even if you just take a piece of plywood and bungy that thing in place! Just need to have a kitchen/bathroom fan attached to it, and a hole on the bottom for an intake. And yes, you can put a little duct on the intake to make the air flow better. I wouldn't put anything extra near the exhaust (to make it less efficient), except a carbon filter.

I'd say your only problem now would be getting the door off without f-ing up the fridge, and making the new "door" light-proof and odor-proof, maybe even stealthy :cool:

[Smurph]

Don't worry about reflectors with CFL's... :thumbsup
...
I'd say your only problem now would be getting the door off without f-ing up the fridge, and making the new "door" light-proof and odor-proof, maybe even stealthy :cool:

I'm going to fashion a reflector out of something I saw elsewhere on here using a rubbermaid tub or whatever.

We just put the door back on, actually. The handles made the difference on whether it would fit out of the house door frame (which we also had to take the door off of)

I'm thinking about using something and get some magnets all around it very similar to how the door seals currently.

Should I push air in by putting the fan on the bottom (intake) or pull air out by putting the fan on the top (exhaust)? I'm thinking pull air out, though, depending on what I can get some oversize pc fans for, I might do both to help keep the air flowing.

And yes, with only one door (we're not using the freezer portion right now for anything, though I might start something else in there. it's smaller and will require a little less light) the fridge won't look like "Just an old broken fridge we have in our basement". I think we'll just make a small rolling setup for it to stand on, and face it toward a wall.

[bigtopsfinn]

The thing about cfl's is that they are only effective up to 4", so that light has to travel up, reflect, and come back down to the plant. By that time it's not doing much... the reflectors might just build up heat and block airflow. Just my :twocents:

Always pull air out... So put the exhaust fan at the top, and you can have a passive intake on the bottom. I don't think a computer fan is going to be enough... I'd aim to clear that space 2 or 3 times a minute...
a good sticky in the indoor growing section http://boards.cannabis.com/indoor-growing/132514-noobs-guide-growroom-set-up-work-progress.html

Here's an old OG thread....

Added by: MarvinM92 Last edited by: snoofer Viewed: 153 times Rated by 74 users: 9.16/10
Contributed by: Smokey D Dope

How do I add ventilation to my grow area?
There are a couple of considerations to observe when planning your ventilation, theyâ??re pretty simple concepts; but they are often overlooked.

� First, remember that warmer air will naturally rise to the top of any container, and that cooler air will naturally settle towards the bottom.
� Also remember that when ventilating any space, the volume (VOLUME, in cubic feet or cubic meters... [L x W x H]) of air that goes IN, also has to come OUT.
� You canâ??t expect to ventilate a grow space by simply forcing air in, and not providing an exhaust vent.

Since the object is to remove as much warm air as possible, and replace it with cooler air, it will be most efficient to place the exhaust as close to the top of the space as possible, and place the intake as close to the bottom as possible.


Should I place the fan in the exhaust, intake or both?
The fan should be placed in the exhaust, and the intake should be a simple hole (or light trap, if light getting out is a concern).
This type of system is known as an Active Exhaust, Passive Intake System.
Mounting the fan in the exhaust, sucking air out of the room accomplishes a couple of things...

� Since the exhaust is at the top of the area, the fan will suck the hottest air out of the area first.
� The fan is actually lowering the air pressure inside the area. Any incidental pinholes or leaky seams will simply draw air in. If the fan were blowing IN, those pinholes and leaks would allow potentially smelly air OUT.


How big should the passive intake be?
It should be slightly larger than the exhaust. Remember, the volume of air being blown out, will be replaced through the intake. Using a bigger intake hole allows the incoming air to be at a lower velocity (speed), which minimizes mixing up of the air in the area. It will also allow the fan to operate more efficiently.


How big should the fan be?
Fans are rated in either cubic feet (CFM) or cubic meters per minute in North America. In Eurpose, metric fans are rated in m3/hr - cubic metres per hour (m3/hr).

That means a 70CFM fan will move 70 cubic feet of air in one minute.
Your fan should be big enough to move the volume of your area 2 to 3 times every minute. A 70 CFM fan would be adequate for a 35 cubic foot area, and would be optimal for roughly a 23 cubic foot area.

� To figure your areaâ??s cubic volume, multiply (in feet) the length by the width by the height.


What if I have more than one fan? Should I use one to blow air in and one to suck air out?
Not if the object is to provide as much ventilation and cooling as possible.

� If you have two 3-inch diameter fans, and you mount one in the intake, and one in the exhaust, you have a total intake area of one 3-inch hole and a total exhaust area of one 3-inch hole.
� If you use both fans as exhausts, you have TWO 3-inch exhausts and two 3-inch intakes (actually, two 3.3 inch intakes. They should be bigger than the exhausts, remember?).
� Twice as many holes, twice as much airflow.


Enhanced Blower Mods

Timer Options
If you find that the "Lights off" temps are lower than you'd prefer, you can simply run the fan from the same timer as the light by using a multi outlet power strip connected to the timer. Plug the lights and the fan into the power strip, and the fan will turn on/off with the lights. If you're using more than one fan, you could connect some or all of them, remembering that the more fans you have running, the lower the temps will be.
* SAFETY NOTE: The timer must be able to handle the additional electrical load, or an additional timer must be used. SAFTEY FIRST.

Sound Suppression
Making the ventilation system quieter can be an important consideration, and it's important to remember that the air moving through the intakes and exhausts make noise, as well as the fan itself. Some of the fan noise from vibration can be overcome by mounting the fan in a non-rigid manner. The fans can me mounted using rubber grommets to help dampen the vibration. Self-adhesive foam rubber window insulation can also be used. In some installations, it can be mounted by threading a bungee cord through each mounting hole, then attaching the other ends of the bungee cord to the exhaust hole.

� Generally, air moving through ductwork or tubing can become noisy, particularly if the air has to move at a higher velocity. More, larger diameter intakes and vent tubes will generally be quieter than fewer, smaller diameter intakes and vents. The fans also don't have to work quite as hard.
� Finally, although popular and easy to use, flexible "Accordion" type hose, commonly used to connect clothes dryers to external vents are not always the best choice, as they cause a great deal of drag, (making the fans work harder) and generally air flowing through them is noisier than smoother ductwork.

Filtering\Odor Control
Connecting a Carbon scrubber is a good method of controlling the odor that can be a dead giveaway to an otherwise stealthy installation. A carbon scrubber is simply an expansion chamber (box) into which the smelly air from a flower chamber is pumped. The chamber has a large exhaust vent, which is covered by an activated carbon air filter. The chamber must be big enough to provide a damping effect of the incoming air. If too small a scrubber is used, the fan will not be capable of pushing air through the filter(I would pull the air through the filter instead of pushing it through. Here, you actually want the exhaust vent to be considerably bigger than the intake.

� There are also several DIY Odor killers available, which work to varying degrees to provide an "Odor Cover-up."
� Remember, the term "Low Odor Strain" is relative.
� Even the low odor strains generally still stink pretty badly near the end of flowering.

Now go grow something!

[syde00]

Should I wire them in series or parallel? I think parallel, but I don't wanna fuck that up.



your wiring should be done in parallel.

you'll run into small problems if you wire in series - but nothing like your house will burn down or anything though lol :jointsmile:

[Smurph]

The thing about cfl's is that they are only effective up to 4", so that light has to travel up, reflect, and come back down to the plant. By that time it's not doing much... the reflectors might just build up heat and block airflow. Just my :twocents:



Can I get a citation on the 4" thing? I'm gonna keep the lights close. The refrigerator has a lot of spaces for an adjustable shelf. The shelves are glass sitting on a metal "frame" of sorts, which I'll use to hold my light, and just adjust it up as necessary. I'm going to build a reflector to hold 6 light sockets (each with a splitter on it).

[bigtopsfinn]

It's all over the place... best way to use cfl's is to get them as close as possible without burning the plant, up to within an inch from the plant. Their effectiveness decreases dramatically every inch the light has to travel. Text (http://cannabis.com/growing/lighting-What_are_compact_fluorescents_and_how_can_i_use_th em_for_growing.html) <-- more info there... even got some reflector ideas for ya. They explain it pretty well in there. The cfl's give off 360 degrees of light, so they use a soda can to wrap tightly around the bulb. That might actually give some sort of reflection since the can is an inch or less away from the bulb. The way I was picturing yours is that you would use one bigger reflector for several bulbs, maybe not as efficient... or maybe I just misunderstood your idea :jointsmile:

[Smurph]

I'm thinking about getting a rubber tub and cutting about six holes in the top (well bottom, but i'm imagining this upside down), wiring in 6 light sockets, and getting six light socket splitters so I can get 12 bulbs in there. It would serve two main purposes. One: the obvious, reflecting the light. I feel that if my light is 3-4ft from the top, that's 6-8ft that some of the light is traveling, Surely that can be reduced. The other purpose it would serve for me is to keep all of my lights more manageable and convenient.

Edit: on second thought, after reading that Text you linked to, I might skip the light socket portion of the reflector and just wire em in like that, who knows.

[bigtopsfinn]

You could mount all the cfl's like you explained if you did Scrog... otherwise you'd want them spread around. If you do Scrog + your tub idea, you can just use some chain to make the light tub height adjustable.

[Smurph]

Alright, we removed the fridge door properly (3 screws) and replaced it with a cardboard door. We plan to line it with mylar on the inside.

Why? Now we have ventilation. I took a heater very similar to the one in the pic below, opened it up, gutted everything, heating element, potentiometers to control heat and thermostat, put the fan portion back in it, wired it to power, now it's always on if its plugged in. Good enough for me. It is currently placed at bottom pushing air out.

Still sitting on 2 1600lumen lights, set to up that a lot on tuesday. We did manage to put a wall in to make the light not be able to travel as far, decreasing the area to about 1.5ft^2, and this makes me want to split the refrigerator into 2 grow chambers.

http://media.doitbest.com/products/438650.gif


And here's a pic:
IMG00041.jpg (349 KB) (http://g.imagehost.org/view/0041/IMG00041)

*note, we plan to grow about 3 plants. We're just saving room for failure/males.

[disrupt86]

Refriginator (http://www.refriginator.com/) i found this ad in a old high times mag.looks like it could be verry helpfull resource for you

[jakezking]

I'd say the old fridge should work fine - I've seen crazier grow cabs before. As discussed above, just be sure to have proper ventilation; I would position the fan as btfinn described - at the top, to push the hot air out as the purpose of the fan is to eliminate heat. You can have a secondary fan in the fridge to blow on your plants providing better air flow and strengthening their stems.

Also, what color is the interior of your fridge? Mine is already a pretty highly reflective white, which based upon my knowledge of fridges - most others are also. If yours is white, I doubt you need to go to the trouble of lining it with mylar.

Glad to follow this innovative grow.

[Smurph]

It is white, as the pic shows. But since we took the door off, and replaced it with cardboard (for ventilation), we're gonna put mylar on the cardboard.

The fan is kinda loud where it is, I think I'm going to have to remount it entirely. Right now, it still looks like a heater because I used the plastic housing as my fan grille. It has a metal fan and i'm kinda afraid of it because its spinning pretty fast. But it is a little loud, too.

[Smurph]

Since I brought the light down to the plants, finally went out and bought some nutes, got the ventilation mostly taken care of, and used better soil, growth has been rapid.

Its me and a buddy doing this, we're kinda just anxious. We're just winging it. This will be alright if we don't get the best results, we are mostly looking for a start, and something to improve on.

I found some seeds from a bag with much higher potency and I'm about to put those in some soil, and see how they go.

Right now, I think the current crops are just past 3 weeks old. You can tell they've been deprived of some light, but that's slowly being fixed, as our trickling incomes will allow.

[BeFree]

Yeah smurph! Grats on 50 posts. Attach some pictures for us. :thumbsup:

I'm curious to see how this 'Ganjirator' works out.

beSafe:jointsmile:

[Smurph]

Quick update. I snapped a few pics. We're using miracle grow nutrients right now since its all we have and its better than none. We're still a little under-lit, so growth isn't the best. The cup in the middle has miracle grow soil in it too, the others are just another soil. I got a few more lights, just need to get em wired up.

I once saw a DIY post on how to take the base off of a CFL to wire them in parallel and save from having to buy sockets or splitters. Since then, I've searched for about 2-3 days and haven't seen the post again, does anyone know which I'm talking about?

Also, what seems to be the problem in pics 2 and 3?

[fluid69]

Quick update. I snapped a few pics. We're using miracle grow nutrients right now since its all we have and its better than none. We're still a little under-lit, so growth isn't the best. The cup in the middle has miracle grow soil in it too, the others are just another soil. I got a few more lights, just need to get em wired up.

I once saw a DIY post on how to take the base off of a CFL to wire them in parallel and save from having to buy sockets or splitters. Since then, I've searched for about 2-3 days and haven't seen the post again, does anyone know which I'm talking about?

Also, what seems to be the problem in pics 2 and 3?
I remember it too, I believe syde00 posted that link somewhere. maybe he'll drop by.

I wouldn't use the nutes yet, you'll burn your baby's up. i'd wait atleast 2 weeks.

[Smurph]

I remember it too, I believe syde00 posted that link somewhere. maybe he'll drop by.

I wouldn't use the nutes yet, you'll burn your baby's up. i'd wait atleast 2 weeks.

Those will be 2 weeks old wednesday iirc. I'm looking for that thread mostly to see the safest/best/working way to get them apart. I'll manage the wiring no problem once I get it open.

[fluid69]

sweet I found it! it's @ the bottom of this page:

CFL wiring link (http://cannabis.com/growing/lighting-What_are_compact_fluorescents_and_how_can_i_use_th em_for_growing.html)

[Smurph]

sweet I found it! it's @ the bottom of this page:

CFL wiring link (http://cannabis.com/growing/lighting-What_are_compact_fluorescents_and_how_can_i_use_th em_for_growing.html)

Awesome. That's what I was looking for, thanks. I think I'm gonna try this and see what it does for me. I'll keep ya updated.

I think I have a better idea for an aluminum-can reflector that will use almost all of the can. I don't really have any way of mocking up an example on the computer right now, I'll make one and get pics soon.

[fluid69]

I was wandering how well the "pop can" reflectors worked. I'm somewhat hesitant because I figure the heat up pretty good, what's your take on those?

[Smurph]

I was wandering how well the "pop can" reflectors worked. I'm somewhat hesitant because I figure the heat up pretty good, what's your take on those?

I guess I'm relying on the ventilation to take care of my heat problems. The can is on the outside, not between the plant and the light, but who knows, we'll see soon. I don't have a thermometer in there yet, I need to change that asap, too.
I get paid tuesday, I have another big project to fund (subwoofer amp for my car, I just built a box for my new sub) but I'll find some money for this too.

[fluid69]

thermometers are fairly cheap, and a damn good investment.

yeah I know the feeling, gotta have some driving music.

[Smurph]

So is the yellowing of the leaves due to too much nutes? I did use the mixture in their last watering. Should I flush them? It wouldn't be too hard.

[headshake]

the yellowing of what leaves, exactly?

you should be able to pick up a thermometer at the dollar store.

man, i miss the good ol' days of having a couple of 12"s or three 10"s. man i used to bump, one of the reasons i don't hear so good today.

can't wait to see where this log goes smurph.


-shake

[Smurph]

http://boards.cannabis.com/1986622-post19.html

The first pic, sorry for the quality, shows some yellowing of the leaves at the bottom in the better plant. The second pic shows some limp, yellowed leaves. Is this just too little light? That's being slowly fixed.

[fluid69]

So is the yellowing of the leaves due to too much nutes? I did use the mixture in their last watering. Should I flush them? It wouldn't be too hard.
I'd leave them for now, and just give 'em straight water. here's the pic shake, what do you think? they're just too young for nutes.

[attachment=o217327]

[headshake]

ah, gotcha smurph. my bad! definitely too young for nutes. it looks like they could be a little burnt. especially if your soil had nutes in it to begin with. what type did you use?

most recommend that you wait until you plants have 4 nodes until you give them nutes. if you are using something not specifically designed for cannabis, you would want to start with 1/4 to 1/2 of the normal dosage. also keep in mind, that your soil might have nutes in it.

how many plants total do you have? didn't seem to find a number, although i saw your plant to grow 3. the two CFLs should be okay, not ideal obviously, and you should still add those extra bulbs that you planned. wire them in parallel, if you go series, well, i'm sure you remember troubleshooting christmas lights!

also, you want to keep your soil to within an inch or so of your cup/pot. air can stagnate if it's too deep, your plants will wilt there and die.

any luck with the ventilation?


-shake

[Smurph]

Just took an exam and sold my books back to the school. That funded 4 new really awesome [see below] light sockets, 4 splitters, and 4 more bulbs to compliment the 4 total that I have right now, bringing me to 8 lights @ 1600lumen each for a grand total of *drumroll* 12,800 lumen for what is right now 3ft^2 space, I'm gonna enclose it a little more.

The sockets I got are really cool. They have a hook on the bottom, then they have this part that twists so you can easily install them at any point on a wire...in parallel. No solder, no electrical tape, and even better, I can change their location no problem. Something I see helping out when I have a 3ft plant.

How many do I have right now? Lots. About 10 or so at the moment. 4 of them are new, put in the ground on 5/2, but they came from such a better bag than the others, I was amazed that I found seeds in the bag, so of course I'm gonna see what I can do with it.
There's 2 in the middle cup, but I'm moving one of them to another cup today.

[headshake]

if you just put them on a wire and twist how exactly does it run them in parallel? just curious? i never seen such a thing. or does it just allow the current to pass through it should the buld burn out?


-shake

[Smurph]

if you just put them on a wire and twist how exactly does it run them in parallel? just curious? i never seen such a thing. or does it just allow the current to pass through it should the buld burn out?


-shake

All I'm using for pics is my blackberry, so they're not great, but in the pic is one socket installed on the wire, the other socket open and not installed. The one part spins 90 degrees and underneath is a spike, it will puncture through the wire shielding and make contact with the wire. Just slide the wire in both ends, and twist it on, and viola! I'm pretty excited about these, actually.

[headshake]

yeah but if you have a string of wire and attach these devices at certain intervals, thats series and not parallel. maybe i'm just mistaken here.

something like this? sorry for the horrible, rudimentary diagram. lol.

[Smurph]

yeah but if you have a string of wire and attach these devices at certain intervals, thats series and not parallel. maybe i'm just mistaken here.

something like this? sorry for the horrible, rudimentary diagram. lol.

haha I'll pull out multisim and draw it out for ya, and include this pic of my reflector idea, the only thing I removed and threw away was the can top. I split it down the middle and just folded the sides outward to more reflect...

The first pic is my reflector with light and socket installed on the wire, maybe that'll clear it up for ya, too.

Also, disregard the wattage ratings on the lights I used in the diagram.

[headshake]

i still don't see how it's parallel, but i guess it doesn't matter. lol. i mean i saw the diagram you included.

but if you have two wires, put on the bulb recepticles and only have two wires that is series.

and yes, i'm not completely an idiot, i did work on electronics on helicopters (AH-1W and UH-1N) in the marines!

maybe i'm just having a confused morning? i like what you are doing anyhow. can't wait to see more!


-shake

[Smurph]

i still don't see how it's parallel, but i guess it doesn't matter. lol. i mean i saw the diagram you included.

but if you have two wires, put on the bulb recepticles and only have two wires that is series.

and yes, i'm not completely an idiot, i did work on electronics on helicopters (AH-1W and UH-1N) in the marines!

maybe i'm just having a confused morning? i like what you are doing anyhow. can't wait to see more!


-shake

one more shot. Here's two of the sockets. I have a pretty standard 15ft extension chord, I've used a blade and separated the chord to access them separately. The pic shows two sockets. The socket on the left is installed and ready to go, the one on the right is almost ready to go, just need to slide that thing over which will crimp it in, pushing a "tooth" of sorts into the wire and tapping the actual metal.

[headshake]

nevermind. i see. lol. sorry. i told you i was having a confused morning. i think i'm living in a fog.


-shake

[Smurph]

yeah, i got how they go on. it's still not parallel. that is a series circuit. the little adapters might allow the current to pass thru so if a bulb goes out the others work, but if you clip one of those wires your lights go out.

still very cool. i haven't seen those things before, but i sure could use some. lol. how much did they cost if you don't mind me asking?


-shake

updated the pic with a far better version. Since the positive terminal of all of the sockets are common with the positive lead on the extension chord, and the negative terminals on the sockets are all common with the negative side of the chord, they're in parallel.
If I were to cut the cable, and put one of these inline making the connection with the socket's terminals, that would be series. (I'm in Electrical Engineering in college....)

[fluid69]

how much did they cost, and where did you get them?

[headshake]

yeah i got ya, smurph. i told you i was having a bad morning. sorry.


-shake

[Smurph]

how much did they cost, and where did you get them?

Sorry, forgot to answer that.

The socket was just over $2 plus tax. I got 4 of those, 4 splitters, a cheapo 15ft extension chord, and an $11 4-pack of lights all for about $40.


yeah i got ya, smurph. i told you i was having a bad morning. sorry.


-shake

No problem. I had to wake up and drive a half hour to take a music test at 8am... And I'm not a morning person. Nor do I completely understand 7th chords, but that's over now, and I think I did alright anyway...

[headshake]

a music test? sweet. i love music. okay, i can't say i would love the test.

how is everything working in the fridge now?


-shake

[headshake]

i got an electrical question for you smruph. i know jack squat about home electrical. if i have a 24" florescent tube light and it has a green, white and black wires (green is ground, white is hot, and black is neutral?) how do i wire that to a 2 wire plug? they were hardwired into the underside of someones desk.

what is neutral, exactly?

thanks for the potential help!


-shake

[Divestoned]

LOl shake black is hot, white is neutral ,green is ground.If you want to hook up an ungrounded outlet (not advised),then hook the white wire on left side black on right side and curl the ground WAY out of the way.(right an left are referd as if your looking at the face of the outlet).Or if your not using the outlet,only the wire's, then it's white-white black-black keep unused ground wire away from both.

Dive:stoned:

[headshake]

thanks dive, that why i asked! i fixed avionics (comm/nav/weapons) on helos, but don't know shit about house wiring. all the wires on an aircraft are white!

i'll just wait to get some good lights. lol.


-shake

[Smurph]

thanks dive, that why i asked! i fixed avionics (comm/nav/weapons) on helos, but don't know shit about house wiring. all the wires on an aircraft are white!

i'll just wait to get some good lights. lol.


-shake

I don't like household wiring, AC, analog, or anything like that, but I just now got done with an analog class in school. And I generally know how to deal with it all.
We made two circuit boards. one has an LED and a microphone, we used transistors (what the course was mainly about), resistors, and capacitors to amplify what current our voices made the microphone output, and drive the LED. We used a photoresistor (the things on some outdoor lights that turn em on when it gets dark) to read that light, and used more transistors, resistors, and capacitors to drive an 8ohm speaker.
Getting just the right amount of feedback, and canceling all the noise was really tough.

When it comes to digital, I know what the hell's going on. I can design just about anything with logic gates.


And yeah, shake, Music theory test this morning at 8am.... hard to believe I'm still awake. haha.


I have two primary pieces to buy now, a timer (which won't really be needed till later, but I'm thinking about giving em 20/4 or 18/6) and even though I went back to lowe's, and home depot, I didn't walk out with a thermometer...

[headshake]

lol about the thermometer! i remember learning about logic gates. wow, that was a long time ago.

what the hell is the neutral for anyway?


-shake

[Smurph]

lol about the thermometer! i remember learning about logic gates. wow, that was a long time ago.

what the hell is the neutral for anyway?


-shake

Some call it neutral, some call it negative. In one way of looking at electron flow, you could say that it flows from a more negatively charged point to a more positively charged point.

[headshake]

right, i understand that. i guess it's because you have an earth ground and the negative in house wiring as opposed to just a positive and negative in aircraft?

safer that way i suppose.


-shake

[Smurph]

This is a budget grow, so lets do a tally of costs so far

2x 2pack 23w 1600lumen CFLs: $8.12 *2 = $16.24

Light socket 4x $2.66 = $10.64
Socket Splitter 4x $2.06 = $8.24
15' extension chord = $2.92
4 23w 1600 lumen CFLs = $11.98
+tax: 3.12

So far, I've spent $53.14
Not too bad.

[Smurph]

Got a cheapo thermometer and ... Uh oh. Its mostly the new lights, 8x23w cfls get it pretty hot. We're lookin at like 90 degrees, this will be fixed ASAP, but it might not be a refrigerator grow anymore, we'll see. I'm on my phone right now so uploading pics is different, I'll try to get em on here.

[Smurph]

got the pics. Turned the fan on and it's looking better. I need to address that asap.
:stoned:

[Smurph]

Gah. I'm in a weird spot right now. This isn't taking place at my house, so I'm confined by other people's rules. The fan is too loud, so I have to redo that completely so it can run and nobody will ask questions. (They leave the house with only the wife's sister [30s] at home babysitting, and we don't need her snooping around wondering what that sound is). I put the timer in there, but the other guy is convinced that they are too young for anything less than 24hrs of light per day (I had it on 20). I'm trying to tell him that it will help with the temperatures (Which was 86 when I asked him about an hour ago!).

With the fan, the issue is that its a metal fan blade spinning pretty fast, and personally, I don't wanna lose a finger, so I'm keeping it looking like the heater it once was mostly because that's a screen to guard me or anyone else from touching the metal fan. I think I'm going to keep it at bottom, but point it outwards, using ducting if I can... Either that, or put it up on the shelf with the plants and use ducting to shoot it down and out.

I still have some more dank seeds, and the 4 that I've planted haven't poked out yet. The ones you've seen have been from regular mids....

[headshake]

the plants will be fine on 18/6. some people prefer this schedule as it saves money on electricity and it gives the plants some dark time to focus on making roots.

you can adjust your lighting schedule accordingly and not run the lights during the hottest part of the day.

is that two plants in the same pot?


-shake

[jakezking]

I got sidetracked with all of that electrical talk - not sure I followed much of it, but who knows what me brain retained. I agree with shake on the 18/6, and I'd concur with the fact it should help eliminate some of the heat problem as well as provide some dark period to focus energy on root development - here I am simply parroting what I've read on this board.

I have not read anything about it, but I wonder if dry ice may provide you some relief from the heat while adding some CO2 to the enclosed fridge? Since dry ice sublimates relatively slowly, I wonder how long a small block may last to lower your temps?

The easiest way to lower your temps may be to add additional passive air intakes with additional upper level exhaust?

Continued good luck, Smurph!

[Smurph]

Yeah, I know that 18/6 will be fine from what I've read, but I'm the only one doing research. The other guy doesn't even have a computer... let alone internet. I had to convince him, but I got it. it's on 18/6 now, and in fact, the light should've just now turned back on.

They got one more watering with nutes. I didn't tell him not to in time. I think I'm going to flush them now, they've been watered three times now with nutes.

Got another fan from wal mart. It was marked $7.00, its a small 4" metal fan that's pretty quiet. Check out the new setup...

The fan is hanging from the chord that the lights are on, I have it pointed downward to blow air down to where I have the current exhaust fan. I'll try to move it elsewhere one of these days.

[syde00]

Just took an exam and sold my books back to the school. That funded 4 new really awesome [see below] light sockets, 4 splitters, and 4 more bulbs to compliment the 4 total that I have right now, bringing me to 8 lights @ 1600lumen each for a grand total of *drumroll* 12,800 lumen for what is right now 3ft^2 space, I'm gonna enclose it a little more.

The sockets I got are really cool. They have a hook on the bottom, then they have this part that twists so you can easily install them at any point on a wire...in parallel. No solder, no electrical tape, and even better, I can change their location no problem. Something I see helping out when I have a 3ft plant.



omg, where did you get those sockets? they look pretty awesome... i love how adjustable they are!

I have begun planning the changes i;m going to need to do to my cab for my next transplant, and figuring out how i want to arrange the lights to maximize their effeniency has been a little tricky... i haven;t quite figured out what i want to do yet, but i could see myself using something like those... its like track lighting, but without the track!

[Smurph]

omg, where did you get those sockets? they look pretty awesome... i love how adjustable they are!

I have begun planning the changes i;m going to need to do to my cab for my next transplant, and figuring out how i want to arrange the lights to maximize their effeniency has been a little tricky... i haven;t quite figured out what i want to do yet, but i could see myself using something like those... its like track lighting, but without the track!

I got them at Lowe's. Around here, they are the only ones that have them between wal mart, Home Depot, and Lowe's. They are about $2 each. This is my first grow, and I already know that these sockets are basically the best I could've gotten (going for low price). I don't particularly have to keep my plants short now that I can place and dangle lights at any point, every 4-6 inches down the plant, too.

I've found that wal mart is the cheapest place for pretty much anything else, though. I saw the same exact battery or 12vdc (plug-in) powered fan at Lowe's advertised with "Every day low price" of $9 compared to the same at wal mart for $6

Right now my babies are more near the top of the refrigerator. Mostly because of how much more convenient hanging the light is with the screws in the top of the fridge for hanging the other end of the cable off of. Heat, of course, rises, and is the biggest problem with the whole op right now. I might put them down farther and see if I can help temps at all.

I cut the cups that have sprouts in them. Now, the soil is pretty much at the top. That's how Engineers roll... The cup is neither half empty nor half full, it's simply just too big.

[Smurph]

Good news...sort of. This morning at about 11am (approximately 1hr after lights are scheduled to turn back on), the temperature was 80. Better. :pimp:

The next two weeks are supposed to be shitty and wet... which means the temps will be about 10 degrees cooler outside. Supposed to be between 59 and 83. That's gonna give me a few days to get this shit straight.

[jakezking]

I cut the cups that have sprouts in them. Now, the soil is pretty much at the top. That's how Engineers roll....

Dude, you just made me chuckle - my bro is an engineer, and I can see that dude sayin' somethin' just like that! Flippin' hilarious! Looks like your setup is gettin' sweeter - lookin' forward to more beautiful bean footage!

[Smurph]

Update... got some pics from outside the fridge this time

Moved the babies to a lower shelf about a foot off the bottom of the box. the intake is fully below the shelf, it's just a 7" hole, you can see it from the outside in pic 4. You can also see how tight of a space we got back there. I noticed today that this place isn't in the way of any good circulating air... Will that be a problem with refreshing CO2?

Pic 3 shows the fan taped to the ceiling, and the cardboard door taped on for a seal. Without this, ventilation basically didn't do shit.

Pic 2 is the current setup. Got a couple reflectors on there.... Not much else...

Pic1 is the babies. The biggest in the previous pics is the one not doing so hot at the top of the pic... Kinda a not good situation there. Hopefully it'll pull through. The other two are obviously loving the extra light I've put in there for em. They look like they're gonna be the next stars....

Head, I did have two plants in that middle pot, but no longer. Just one.

The temp did get down to 80 tonight. That's more progress. I read on here somewhere that I want to keep the temps between 65 and 85, or in the mid 70s for optimum, so that's kinda where I'm shooting for.

I feel that the biggest issue right now is the fact that my room is 5ft tall... The day that I decided to start growing in the fridge, I didn't know about the SOG/LST/SCROG techniques for smaller spaces.
Since I have to worry about noise so much, and can't ventilate it how I'd like (we have a huge electric powered turbine that really moves some damn air. This would have us GOLDEN, but we can't be loud...), I'm reconsidering the box.... I'm about to go look through other grow setups and see what I can do...

[Smurph]

Good news. Tempa are pretty steady at about 82. I'll be ok with that for now. Better news: everyonr's doing just fine. Nine plants now. Some have just broke ground, though.

[Smurph]

I set the light cycle to 20/4 because we don't have our larger buckets yet, still using the beer pong cups, and I don't need any more root development just right now, but I do want temperature help.

growth is great. Everyone looks healthy, the big one from before did get some yellowed leaves, like I said, I had to do some cutting. Lets see how that turns out.

Just finished making all the reflectors. I took the "wings" off all the others. Just the two in the pic shown still have the wings on em, it helps round it all out.

Count is 4 mids plants and 5 dank plants, the dank plants and 1 mids plant are lagging by a few weeks, and have been mostly in great conditions (unlike the other 3 mids plants that had to deal with 2 CFLs, no ventilation, and probably some pretty high temps for a little bit, but they are troopers!!!)

[Smurph]

The temps are hovering around 78 now. Way better... The plants all look good, two dank. Seedlings popped through one cup so I put one in its own container, I think it died. Oh well....

[Smurph]

This is no longer (at least not for today) a Refrigerator grow. They have all been moved to a closet because the termite guy is supposed to come today. He won't be spraying inside at all, though (the fridge is in the unfinished garage). The temps were in the 70s doing a lot better. We're thinking about building a new box, or getting plywood and cutting a door. That way we can use weather stripping or something to seal it off with.


Question: I found some "Carbon filters" at wal mart for about $10 each, They are just the screen part, so you can make your own filter (perfect), but are they the same carbon filter that I'll need to filter out smell later on?

[Italiano715]

If it's a carbon filter, it should work...I'm sure there is some way of rigging it up in your grow to work just fine

[camoxnhx]

Yeah, I know that 18/6 will be fine from what I've read, but I'm the only one doing research. The other guy doesn't even have a computer... let alone internet. I had to convince him, but I got it. it's on 18/6 now, and in fact, the light should've just now turned back on.

They got one more watering with nutes. I didn't tell him not to in time. I think I'm going to flush them now, they've been watered three times now with nutes.

Got another fan from wal mart. It was marked $7.00, its a small 4" metal fan that's pretty quiet. Check out the new setup...

The fan is hanging from the chord that the lights are on, I have it pointed downward to blow air down to where I have the current exhaust fan. I'll try to move it elsewhere one of these days.

Those little massey Fans from wal-mart are the shit. i am current using them. dunno if this helps but i broke off the stand with the 3 rubber cushings and bent the prongs when the pins went and screwed it and using it as my outake fan, my other ones on the inside but they will help with temps. also investing in a few more will help with vent and heat issues. Keep that green thumb green!

[Smurph]

Those little massey Fans from wal-mart are the shit. i am current using them. dunno if this helps but i broke off the stand with the 3 rubber cushings and bent the prongs when the pins went and screwed it and using it as my outake fan, my other ones on the inside but they will help with temps. also investing in a few more will help with vent and heat issues. Keep that green thumb green!

I actually just got a bigger massey fan. Same maker, just bigger. i think it's a 9" fan. It'll be my exhaust fan (or my other exhaust fan. Haven't decided if I want just that one, or two) That fan is now blowing up over the lights, it basically makes the lights heat go up rather than toward the plants.

[camoxnhx]

Now why not use the bigger one as the outake and use the one you have in there to create airflow to hlep your plants with structor plus it will help move the hot air upwards faster to your out take fan.

[Smurph]

Now why not use the bigger one as the outake and use the one you have in there to create airflow to hlep your plants with structor plus it will help move the hot air upwards faster to your out take fan.

Currently I have a heater (gutted, turned into just a fan) at the top as my exhaust. It is bigger, with an equal sized hole at bottom for intake. I have the 4" pointed upward between the plants and the lights. Not on the plants, but enough to make the leaves move just a little bit. This moves the air that the lights heat up upward to the exhaust fan (heat rises as it is, but the fan pushes the heat away from the plants and gives it a little boost on its journey onward, upward, and outward to the sun!)

[jakezking]

I'm lookin' forward to your new grow box, if indeed you determine to build one. Always fun to watch an engineer at work; even though I believe you said you were studying electrical engineering, most engineers I've run into have a good general mechanical sense. I'm sure a new box would be an easy thing for you to throw together. On the other hand, it seemed like you had just about achieved your goals with the fridge - what with all of your plants thriving, so it's tough to overlook the age-old adage - if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

As for your space issues, LST is a very easy method to learn. There are plenty of threads/posts on this board with picture by picture explanation on how to LST; it should work like a champ for you to save on headroom, and you've plenty of time until you should begin.

Keep up the good work, Smurph!

[Smurph]

I'm lookin' forward to your new grow box, if indeed you determine to build one. Always fun to watch an engineer at work; even though I believe you said you were studying electrical engineering, most engineers I've run into have a good general mechanical sense. I'm sure a new box would be an easy thing for you to throw together. On the other hand, it seemed like you had just about achieved your goals with the fridge - what with all of your plants thriving, so it's tough to overlook the age-old adage - if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

As for your space issues, LST is a very easy method to learn. There are plenty of threads/posts on this board with picture by picture explanation on how to LST; it should work like a champ for you to save on headroom, and you've plenty of time until you should begin.

Keep up the good work, Smurph!

Yeah, I'm a programmer at heart. I have written programs for various reasons for the past 10 years freelance. I was also in a robotics competition (though I don't wear glasses, button-downs, or the like) in high school. We kicked ass. Second place overall in regional, got best design, and got knocked out in the semi-finals at nationals.

My job doesn't pay too well so funds are TIGHT. I'm going to have to build out of mostly what we've got lying around our two houses. I'm a McGuyver of sorts. I'll keep ya posted

[headshake]

there's nothing wrong with that smruph! i do the same thing. nothing beats out ingenuity!


-shake

[Smurph]

I haven't been over there to see it in a few days, but I hear they aren't in the best of conditions right now. I need to cut some plywood to fit over that fridge door and get some weather stripping for houses or something to make a decent quick seal. Anyone know where to get long strips of magnets? I need like 15ft of it, that'd be the best seal. Without a seal (and it doesn't have to be perfect, just enough that the easiest path of air is through the bottom hole), on this fridge, there is no use in even wasting electricity on a fan...

Either that, or we're gonna make a new box. About how short can I afford to make it, and not be too crammed in there? I have never seen a fully grown LST'd plant. Assume about a foot for the pots, and another for the lighting setup.I'm thinking about 4ft ought to do me well. Of course, Like JakezKing said, it's not particularly broke, so why fix it.... All I'm--err... the house owner-- is worried about is light pollution. That ought to be fixed when I stop using cardboard and tape as my door....

[Smurph]

Update.... I got a chance to go by and see the progress, and it is now officially a closet grow. I suppose I'll build a box to put it in inside the closet.... The house owner feels more secure with it in his room's extra closet rather than out in the garage in a refrigerator. Whatever. The ventilation isn't perfect, but the plants don't seem to be doing too bad. I snapped a pic of what we have so far.

Tell me what ya think

[bigtopsfinn]

You should cover up the sides of those clear containers. The roots don't like light. Maybe add a little more perlite next time you re-pot also (20-25% perlite) :thumbsup:

Those bigger ones in the small cups might be ready for a re-pot already...

[Smurph]

yeh... but I'm broke, as usual. Think milk jugs will work so long as they're not clear?

[Smurph]

Yeah. Definitely a closet grow, not a refrigerator grow, but still a budget grow. Hopefully someone will come up with some plywood (or other wood) I can cut up and make a good box with.

Now I have to think about how tall I want it or need it. I'm thinking, with my super adjustable lights, I can put three splitters per socket to make 4 light groups that are 6" from the next set. If they need to be within 4" as I read somewhere else on this site, they'll be good at 6" from each other. That would allow me to keep it pretty tall and bushy. I'm thinking 3-4ft tall plants. So, a 5' tall box, and the width and length will be determined by what I use for new pots

Which brings me to the second thing I've been thinking about. I don't really wanna go spend 20 or 30 bucks on 7-8 gallon pots to see a few of them get canned because they had males. I'm thinking about using either 2-liter bottles, cut them down just a little, or if that's not providing enough width for the root system, gallon milk jugs cut down an inch or two.

Any ideas? :hippy:

[JohanD420]

Funny how one idea can morph into another. I thought about the fridge as I have an old one too. But I came to the conclusion that it just wouldn't work. Went to the clearance section at Menards and bought some wood and a saw and went to work to build my box. I think it cost me a total of about $150 to build the entire thing and that was including the $40 saw. It's twice as big as one you can buy for that. So maybe you should just try to do that. You plants do look healthy, Keep it up!

[bigtopsfinn]

Hey Smurph,

I saw ImageReaper talking about some kind of white boards he found (I think at home de pot) which he was going to use to build his grow room. I think it's like the dry-erase type boards. At least with those, you don't have to worry about paint/mylar. Should be quite affordable.

Second, the size of the container will limit the size of the plant. The roots underground grow almost if not as much as the plant above ground. You might get away finishing in the 1 gal milk jugs, but if they do get rootbound in the milk jug, it looks like a pain in the ass to transplant. But again, depends on how long you plan on growing the plants for. My plants under a 400hps will grow for about 13-14 weeks total (5 weeks veg, 8-9 weeks flowering), so I finish up in 15 liter buckets.

While I have purchased some higher-ticket items for my grow, I try to save as much money as possible buying things from second-hand shops and thrift stores. You might be able to find some good pots/buckets/containers in those kinds of places. It's worth a look. Some gardening shops will also throw out used containers, or set them out back for people to pick up for free. :greenthumb:

[headshake]

how many lights are you running total smurph?


-shake

[Smurph]

how many lights are you running total smurph?

Currently, we're running 8 lights

[headshake]

how many do you guys plan to upgrade to? and you can always clone for sex.


-shake

[Smurph]

we have 3 dank plants (in the red cut cups above), and the rest are from mids. I stole a handful of my mom's miracle grow soil one day when I was at her house for the plant in the clear square-ish container. The tall blue cups are regular potting soil, the tall clear (powerade cup) is dirt from outside somewhere....

There are three of us working on this, I'd really like to see 3 plants survive and we just each get a plant. I know that in the end we're going to split the total yield evenly. Most likely by weight. I plan to keep mine for personal use, I'm not interested in the money, I have too much time and love in it to put a price on it anyway. I'll give my roommate a good bag of it which I will tell him he can't sell (and it having nothing to do with this site's rules, but that I'm not gonna give it to him if he wants to make money off it). I dunno what the other two have in mind.

I'll keep as many females as we get. Probably up to like 4-5. I'd really love to see one of those dank plants be a female, and I'm sure I'll have at least one female from the mids for comparison...

[headshake]

how many lights do you guys plan on upgrading to?


-shake

[Smurph]

how many lights do you guys plan on upgrading to?

I suppose as many as we need.... I have 4 sockets, I don't intend on putting any more than 4 lights per socket, might even keep it down to just two per socket. Everything on this site that I've seen that speaks on how much light is necessary only talks on a two-dimension level. There's 3 dimensions in my grow room, and the light covers 3 dimensions of space as well.

I intend on keeping every piece of plant within 3inches of at least 2 lights, keeping in mind just how modular these are, I'm interested in finding out how tall I can keep a healthy plant on CFLs

[headshake]

what size closet are you working with. and please explain your 3 dimensions. l x w x h?

you shouldn't so much worrry how tall you can get your plant because CFLs have terrible penetration. so the top of the plants will bud nicely but the underneath will suffer greatly unless you use some kind of supplemental lighting. your plant will grow as tall as you let it veg ( i assume, and you know what that does) if you keep the lights on it. you'd be better off working with smaller plants that will require basically no veg (2 weeks if a clone, a week of two longer from seed) and will bascially turn into bud on a stick if you don't LST or top or something.

you want a minimum of 5000 lumens per sq foot.


-shake

[Smurph]

you shouldn't so much worrry how tall you can get your plant because CFLs have terrible penetration.

That assumes that the lights are all together at top. That's something that my system of lighting allows me to easily overcome. I can string them up and down the plant, to allow the light to have some 3" from the bottom leaf, and also have lights within 3" of the top of the plant even if the plant is 3ft tall.

Right now I have 4890 lumens/ft^2, I think. A little low, but I read I need more than 3000, and 5000 is optimum.

[Smurph]

Everything's dead....


I went to bonnaroo, came back and one plant had survived. Shortly thereafter, there was an argument between the owners of the house that required the one plant be moved immediately, or thrown out. We couldn't find a new home, so decided it had to go. :(

I didn't have the control over this grow that I wanted anyway, I mostly just put up all the money (which wasn't a lot, and I'm keeping what I've purchased).

Hopefully you'll see me again with great success.

[headshake]

sorry to hear about the plants smruph. at least you got some valuble experience! that's all one can really ask for.


-shake

[Smurph]

Yeah, I wasn't really happy with much or most of the whole setup anyway. I didn't have the funds that I wanted and honestly needed to put in it, I didn't really have any financial help, and I didn't have the time to go to the house it was at too often because it wasn't too close to a lot of other things.

And here in the past 3-4 weeks I've been working my ass off at 2 official jobs and a few side jobs (All legal. Computer building/repair, web design, and a programming job) making money to spend at bonnaroo. Honestly, they were in the hands of people who had done almost no research, and have been mislead on a few things (they untied my LST'd plant "because it was killing it"). I'm not blaming them, though. Everything they did was in the best of intentions.

I hope to find another opportunity to experiment and learn (and smoke a little for free!!) in the near future.

A huge thanks to everyone who helped me and followed the grow. Thanks for all the advice and support. I apologize that I didn't keep you entertained for longer.

Until next time.

Smurph!

[mazman1989]

thats smart with the chicken wire to keep it bushy like that.