spotting curling leaves???

[headshake]

what's good everyone? i am having a problem with my ladies. this is the second batch in a row (only 2 batches ever) that is showing the same problems. the leaves (seems like mostly up top) are getting dry, and turning different directions. they are also spotting with copper-colored spots.

it seems that they start showing signs once they are switched to flower. here is the troubleshooting form:

E-indoor
E-soil
E-potting soil,.10-.08-.06
CSL-Perfect Mix

SCL-nothing added to soil but perlite
SCLR-don't know runoff
E-Water source-tap
E-Source water pH-don't know
E-Age of plant-62 days
E-Super Bloom by green light, 12-55-6, 2 TBSP of molasses, superthrive (1/2 cap each watering)
E-Rate of application (if hydro, this is your PPM number, preferably after each component is added)-water/feed, water/feed, water
E-Lighting source and distance from plant-8 CFLs ~1650 lumens each
E-Air temperature (both day and night if you are running a dark period)-day 75-82, night 65-75
E-Air % Relative humidity-20-40%
E-Lighting schedule-12/12
E-Type of ventelation-2x 120mm fans with appropriate size passive intakes

i know i need to get some way to check pH, that's next on the list.

i also have the full fox farm line-up for ferts, the wet and dry. should i switch this late into flower or just start them on the next batch?

thanks for your help!

-shake

here are some pics of what i'm describing. thanks again!

[Hydroponic Cabbage]

looks like nute burn a little; but yeah you def want to get something to test your ph.

[dejayou30]

My guess is pH lockout, figure out how to check it ASAP! Its necessary to know in order to grow good cannabis!

[headshake]

ok, ok. i will try to get a pH test kit tomorrow. that was what i was thinking, but who knows. on the last batch the leaves were deep, dark green, almost blue. i read somewhere that it was a lockout of either phosphorus or potassium, can't remember which.

thanks for the help!

-shake

[MdmPele]

this only happens after switching to 12/12? fine until then?

then I'd say it has something to do with the switch. likely nutes.

[headshake]

that's that way it seems mdmpele. i've got some new nutes to try, just not sure if i should switch during the middle of flower or what.

-shake

[irydyum]

that's that way it seems mdmpele. i've got some new nutes to try, just not sure if i should switch during the middle of flower or what.

-shake

Shake, IMHO, if you aren't happy with the way your plants are looking under your current program, then I would switch if you feel you have a better nutrient option now.

I think your SuperBloom may be a little hot, ie; too much phosphorus. If you are going to use a single bloom nute for flowering, you will def want something a little more balanced in the P and K numbers and low in N.

If you have the FoxFarm line, I would switch to them immediately. I would also recommend starting them at quarter strength since your CFL's wont cause the same aggressive nutrient uptake that HID lighting will cause.

My opinion only, hope it's worth the 2 cents it cost me.

[headshake]

sounds good irydum. thanks for the advice. i just watered them yesterday. so i might water them once more, and then begin the feeding with the fox farm line-up.

thanks again everyone!

-shake

[Divestoned]

that is a definate PH issue bro ..get that straight and you'll be back on track.
A PH issue will look like several kind's of deficiency...becouse it IS.

Dive:stoned:

[Rusty Trichome]

I'm with irydyum on this one. Looks more like overnute from using the Super Bloom by green light, 12-55-6 at full strength. Great for roses outdoors, but must be adjusted down, for indoors in pots. (especially using CFL's)

I'd flush well, and give the Fox Farms a try, using their handy feeding schedule as a guide. Personally, I'd cut the nutrients in half, but feed twice weekly. (same weekly totals, though) Easier on the plants, and allows for 'fine-tuning' your dilutions and quantities.
(but I'd use the Big Bloom at half-strength, only once a week, if you have it)


that is a definate PH issue bro ..get that straight and you'll be back on track.
A PH issue will look like several kind's of deficiency...becouse it IS.
Dive:stoned:
And you are sure about that...? Please tell us the indicators, rather than offering a blind "you have my word on it" diagnosis... What on the plant indicated ph lockout?

[headshake]

thanks dive and rusty! i appreciate the feedback.

i NEVER fed the plants at full strength, only at 1/2 strength. i do read these boards and your posts rusty! they have also been given superthrive at every watering/feeding. could this be too much?

i hear ya on the dosages rusty. i am currently feeding on this schedule:
water/feed, water/feed, water, repeat.
what do you recommend rusty? i understand there will be different factors, but what baseline do you recommend?

i've got the whole line up rusty! happy birthday to me. is that weird? getting nutes for cannabis for your bday.

and yes i do need a pH test kit of some sort, regardless. maybe tonight once the wife gets home.

thanks again!

-shake

[MdmPele]

before you switch nutes, you might want to flush.

(if you have a 5 gallon pot, flush with about 5 gallons. I move mine to the shower. final gallon is dosed with H202)

Its one of those things that when done right, especially with H202 added (hyd peroxide) it's almost never wrong.

even in overwatered plants, a flush, or at least water with H202, and it will get oxygen to the roots and tide them over until the medium dries out.

[headshake]

yeah, i got the flush part, thanks. and i'm aware how to flush, and when to use h202. why is that your answer for everything? thanks.

didn't rusty already tell you that too much h202 is bad for your ladies?

-shake

[Divestoned]

Rusty

The leaf curl and the fact he has no clue what the ph level is are dead give-away's.Im not guessing.
I know that you prefer to give long winded answer's to make people think your slick,I Like to keep thing's simple.

Dive:stoned:

[phatsesh101]

for the most part i concure with rusty.
but a cap full of superthrive!?, in how much water?
and you still should be able to check ph

[headshake]

not a total cap full, just not a drop. in a gallon. and how should i be able to check my pH without a meter or test kit?

-shake

[bigtopsfinn]

You could try the ph test strips, they are really cheap. Mine measure from like 6.0 to 7.6. The only problem with checking the run-off ph is that your water will be tinted, and could throw off your results. I ran my run-off through a paper towel (or clean towel would probably work too) and it cleared it up. Not sure if it affected the ph much, but the results were nearly similar before and after I cleared the water.

[Divestoned]

You'll need to shell out the 5 buck's for the liquid test kit. If you buy only one tool,make it the ph test kit.If you have too you can guess at ppm, but PH is by far the most important thing to get right.

Dive:stoned:

[headshake]

thanks for the advice bigtop.

i know it dive. i should have had one by now. that's my bad. there is no good excuse. i'm a bad farmer. i do plan on getting a proper setup one of these days, including a nice 3 in 1 meter. lol.

-shake

[MdmPele]

yeah, i got the flush part, thanks. and i'm aware how to flush, and when to use h202. why is that your answer for everything? thanks.

didn't rusty already tell you that too much h202 is bad for your ladies?

-shake


*blushing* no I didn't ready rusty's reply on that if you could like, thanx

also, I figured with all rep points you've been here a while and knew how -- I didn't mean that to offend as much as maybe someone else will read it. (I really did think about that before I wrote it...)

too much h202 too often would be bad in organics.. no I don't use it all the time.

and --- flushing isn't always the best answer either ;)

i felt like flushing was an answer I was either giving or reading a lot about recently -- I'm also on a state-local board, so ...

[headshake]

sorry mdm. i was having another conversation with someone that was getting a little under my skin, and i let it carry over to here.

i meant nothing by it. i am sorry.

thanks for the advice and keep it coming!

-shake

[MdmPele]

sorry mdm. i was having another conversation with someone that was getting a little under my skin, and i let it carry over to here.

i meant nothing by it. i am sorry.

thanks for the advice and keep it coming!

-shake

ahhahaaa, same here! on another db.


hugs!


and I did miss what rusty said about h2o2... if you have a link I'd appreciate it. I might just learn something ;)

[headshake]

i can't seem to locate the post at the moment, but it was something to the effect that too much h202 is bad for the aerobic bacteria that it normally helps.

sorry i can't find it. i'll keep my eyes peeled.

-shake

[irydyum]

Not quoting, but if memory serves me right, H202 is bad in "organics", or any medium where you are using beneficial bacteria (hopefully all mediums). h2o2 is just h20 with an extra unstable oxygen molecule that attaches itself to bacteria and fungi, essentially killing it. If your roots are healthy, there should be bacteria and fungi that are NECESSARY for maintaining root health. If you kill them all off, your plant will suffer for it.

Plus, if you are using organics (especially TLO), you can literally wipe out everything you were trying to establish in your growing media. Organics is by all accounts "living" soil.

[headshake]

not to argue, but from what i've read it is beneficial to aerorobic bacteria (good bacteria) as it supplies food to it if i remember correctly. it kills the anaerobic bacteria (bad bacteria) and the radical oxygen atoms oxydizes elements making them more available for the roots to take in.

-shake

[Rusty Trichome]

Rusty I know that you prefer to give long winded answer's to make people think your slick,I Like to keep thing's simple.
Dive:stoned:
Keeping it simple enough to be accurate would suffice, and as far as my long-winded answers...feel free not to read 'em. Do you feel threatened by having someone that tries to explain in detail, the answer and reasoning behind the answer? C'mon...stick your neck out there once in a while. Let's see some troubleshooting skills, slick. :thumbsup:

My goal is not to look cool, be most popular, or pretend to know what the fuck I'm talking about, if I don't. (unlike some posters who decide to throw-out hit-n-miss responses, regardless of validity)

Whatever. Kids will be kids, I guess. :jointsmile:

[headshake]

i appreciate all of the explinations rusty, lord knows i need them!

quick question for you, i'm looking at pH test kits locall y. this one is at petco. it's a little confusing. it says "....for pH level from six." but then in the description it says 0-7. i've included the link and would appreciate any feedback before i go buy one.

most i see are for a very specific range.

thanks again!

-shake

[Divestoned]

National Garden Wholesale : Gardening Supplies (http://www.nationalgardenwholesale.com/ngw/gardening_supplies.aspx?request=GH_PH-TEST-KIT&title=pH%20/%20EC%20/%20TDS%20Meters%20__%20Solutions&type=product)

copy an paste that,it should lead you to the stuff your after.

Dive:stoned:

[Divestoned]

Oh...nvm...just click the link. LOL


Dive:stoned:

[headshake]

cool. thanks dive. my wife picked me up some test strips while she was out today. they test from 6.0-9.0 or something. i'm not quite sure how to use them.

i haven't read the directions yet though. i know you dip it in the water and match the color.

do i need to test my tap pH? the mixed nutes pH? and what exactly is runoff pH? is that when i check the water/food that comes out the bottom of the container when watering/feeding?

thanks for the help. i know they are some stupid questions. i'll be off reading up on it.

-shake

[headshake]

okay. i tested the pH. i think the strips sucked. i got various readings. it appeared high though. i'll have to get a better kit, or better yet a meter. it could be a while though, my wife lost her job today.

here are a few more pics. i know all of them look different. sorry. it's all i got.


thanks ahead of time for all the advice!


-shake


pic 1- i think the light might have fell on this one. i'm not sure though. it's the only bud on the plant, or any of them for that matter.

pic 2- miss gnarly's jacked up leaves. buds appear to be growing fine.

pic 3- more problems.

pic 4- yet more different problems.

pic 5- some twisted up leaves.

[Divestoned]

Damn man
You need to transplant into bigger pot's.You need to get the PH straight.You may want too cut back on the nute's...and it look's over-watered.

I know you read this shit.....what's goin on over at your place?

LOL just pokin your rib's a little,you know I'm your biggest fan.

We're gonna need a proper ph tester to fix this tho. use your bank card (or a stolen one) to order the kit i sent you a link for ..it's 7 buck's,I have one also, I use it to make sure the meter is correct.

Dive:stoned:

[Rusty Trichome]

They look way overferted, rootbound, and are possibly moisture starved. Are you having to water them more, and is the water absorbing into the soil?

A transplant into fresh potting soil will help resolve most ph issues, unless it's from any additives you've used. (there are usually ph buffers in the potting mixes)

Are you giving any micronutes? If you've already switched to Fox Farms, never mind. Their Grow Big and Tiger Bloom already have micro's. (the Big Bloom is a catalyst)
How about CalMag Plus, or any other source of usable calcium?

Runoff is the liquid that comes out of the bottom of the pot after watering. Knowing this ph is a good way to see what's happening inside of your pot.
Test strips and other color-coded methods of testing ph are pretty-much unusable for testing your runoff ph, though. (runoff is tinted with nutrients and organics...the tinting skews results)

What's your tapwater ph?

Bummer about the wife's job. But perhaps there's bigger and better things to come. :thumbsup:

[headshake]

damn, i feel like i just got kicked in the nuts!

sorry for the slow response, things have been hectic the past two days.

as far as the watering, i only water when the plants are dry. i used the finger in the soil technique as well as feeling the pots weight. i water and leaver out for ~ 15 mins. the water seems to absorb fine. same as my first grow-round. it's a 2/3 potting mix, 1/3 perlite blend. it seems to accept the water and it drains through pretty quickly.

overferted? i'm sure that they are. i used 1/2 strength on the green light super bloom. i never added any cal-mag or anything like that.

i have started the fox farms. only one feeding so far. tiger bloom/big bloom/cha-ching. i think they are about due.

from the test strips, it appears that my tapwater pH is 7.5-8.0. i will be getting a kit as soon as the money is available.

as far as transplanting, what do you guys recommend? my bloom area is tapped for space. i do have 4 bigger pots that i could move some of them into. what should i do with the rest?

sorry this wasn't more well planned out. i guess i should have put them into flower a lot sooner while trying this technique.

thanks for all of the help dive and rusty! i greatly appreciate it.

-shake

[Divestoned]

Move your best girl's into bigger pot's as soon as you can.Run PH balanced water thru the soil for atleast a week(no nute's),you may want to consider a flush..Keep your light's a lil higher for now since the plant's are weak.If you have to lose a cpl plant's to make room then so be it.
Also think about using General Hydro 3 part,that's what i use for soil and hydro,it's easy and work's good.
Dive:stoned:

[headshake]

alright dive. i'm gonna get together a gameplan and come up with something.

the ladies have about a month left in flower (not sure if i mentioned that or if it matters).

-shake

[Divestoned]

This is your deal so ultimately you need to decide what's right.
It's not too late.Sure enough we're not gonna gain as much as if we transplanted sooner..but it still should help,and any improvement is better than none.

Dive:stoned:

[headshake]

here is a quick little update. i'm not sure who is following my grow log and who is not. this is copied and pasted from it.

-----------------------------

last night i watered the ladies and fed them with big bloom, tiger bloom and cha-ching. (1/2 strength on the liquids and 1/4 teaspoon of the powder.)

i did get a new pH test kit and some pH down. the original test indicated over the 7.6 that the test went up to. i brought it down (with newly aquired pH down). i don't think it was as low as i wanted to go, but it was better for sure.

i am gonna transplant the ladies. i've got to get the new clone/mom cab done first though. i'll just "borrow" it to finish flowering the ladies. i'll keep four in each probably. i need to go pick up a few more things.

pic 1- original pH. not sure of the exact number, but extremely too high!

pic 2- adjusted down some. still not positive, but it's better. still trying to get a feel for the new pH test kit.

pic 3- test after the nutes were added to the 2nd test. not sure how accurate it can be as it was tinted.

------------------------------

i know this is a little off topic, but i didn't feel like starting another thread. do you guys o who grow hydro prefer DWC or ebb/flow? either system will be homemade.

thanks for all the help/advice/input/feedback/criticism!


-shake

[webace]

super thrive and b1 stuff does this..when i tested

not to confuse with thrive alive,

Plant (moslty fan leaves ) nut - nuk burn , or (turns yellow - small 20 % solutions), like pics in start of bog, in late veg , med term, and budding phase.

i say they dont work very well, even for early growth stages.


PS: GH nova, series is a good 1 part mix , for new ppl starting.


.