indoor closet grow suggestions. HELP!!!!

[bkordel]

ok so i have grown many times in the past but i was never really fully committed. it was more just to see what would happen and it worked out almost every time.

Now i have committed the money and time and i'm very anxious to get this done. I know there are MANY people with much more experience than me and i would greatly appreciate CONSTRUCTIVE CRITISISM....main point being constructive :)

Ok first i'll tell u my setup:

STRAIN: Trainwreck feminized x10, although only 9 of them germinated properly.

LIGHTS: 2x 400W (800 total) HPS, about two feet from the plants. Lights set on 16-8 cycle, i know many use 24 hour lighting but i opted to play it safe. I know the lighting isnt quite enough for all of them but i didnt want to have a few extra seeds laying around so i just decided to do all at once as not all are guaranteed to fully mature.

SOIL: All natural soil, 11-5-18 ( i know its not ideal but the grow shops here kinda suck) mixed with perlite. i change out the soil after ever transplant. I water the soil as needed as thats not hard to figure out.

VENTILATION: OK this is where the most concern is with me, i have a table fan circulating the air in my grow room, not blowing directly on the plants. Although i dont have any fan bringing in fresh air as i dont want to knock a hole in the wall (renting apartment). What i do is, during the light cycle i leave the door to my room cracked enough to keep some fresh air flowing in.

GROW ROOM: I use a large walk-in closet (not sure the exact specs but plenty of room) I've coated the walls in aluminum foil because the color of the walls were not the best choice and i cant paint the walls as i am just renting the place and i couldnt get a hold of mylar. Now i know the room is kind of "ghetto" but i rent the place so theres a limit to what i can do....

TEMPERATURE: OK another big concern i have...The temperature on average is 28-29, but sometimes it reaches 30-31. I know thats a little too high but i'm not too sure what i can do about that....any tricks would help greatly

OK thats about it i think....let me know if i forgot anything.

The babies are about 7-8 days old (sorry not exactly sure)

CONCERNS: Ok the first thing i've noticed is that on some of the plants the tips of the leaves are curling under, on most its not an issue but a few are worrying me. I know that can happen if the lights are too close but i dont think thats it. And another is the on 2 of them they are not growing straight, they grow kind of sideways. please refer to the pictures...

OK....i think thats about it....



Much appreciated:thumbsup:

[bigtopsfinn]

Hey there... Nice to see someone else growing the Trainwreck. It is fucking awesome!

Sounds like you have things pretty much under control. 18" is pretty close, especially this early into veg. They really don't need all of that light until about 1-2 weeks old. Remember the plants are very delicate at this stage...

You should really do something about ventilation, because those TW's are gonna stink up your apartment. I was growing one plant and thought I wouldn't need ventilation or odor control... my friend could smell the weed walking into my building, let alone my apartment. Now I have my inline fan, cooltube and carbon filter, and I don't have temp or odor problems anymore. If you don't want to cut holes, maybe go out and find a similar sized door that you can make holes into.

Also the tinfoil is useless... how about some flat-white colored poster boards???

Good luck and keep us updated :jointsmile:

[bkordel]

yeah theres not many growing trainwreck out there, which is disappointing because i hear the high is amazing, i checked out your past grows and they look fantastic! I hope mine are half as good as yours.

I raised the lights by about 7 inches, the only reason i'm hesitant to do that is because i dont want stretching....yours were nice and bushy and thats the exact thing i'm hoping for.

The great thing about my apartment is that its on the top floor of a 3 story building. I have no neighbors on my level and no neighbors on the level below me which is why i'm not too worried about the smell. Now i'm starting the rethink that...

The walls in the room are a kind of very faded white, more extreme egg-white so i wasnt sure about that hence the tinfoil.

I'd like to know exactly when u starting the flowering period as i'd love to duplicate your grow as much as possible :thumbsup:

I'd also like to know what you think the cause could be of those concerns i had ( the bent growing and curling leaves)

thnx for the advice:hippy:

[bigtopsfinn]

First time around I vegged with a 21w flouro for a week, then the used the hps for veg until it was 30 days old, then switched the lights. On my current grow, I used the flouro and a couple small cfl's for about 2 weeks while I was getting my closet together (of course they were pretty useless after the first week), so I vegged for about 5 weeks total.

Greenhouse says to veg for 2 weeks, but I think that would hurt yield a lot since the roots don't have a chance to grow enough. The yield with the TW is nothing special to begin with, so I'd say 4 weeks of veg with proper lighting will give you good results.

I don't want to make you paranoid or anything, but growing in a rented apartment is also risky in case a maintenance person comes (happened to me and I think the guy didn't care, but he had to have smelled it), or anyone who comes for that matter. As soon as you open your front door, the cat's out of the bag... You never know who will show up, better safe than sorry.:thumbsup:

[bkordel]

ok thats great to know, i'll be sure to keep you updated. hehe can i be your apprentice ;) ? I'm a huge fan of GHS but you cant always listen to their advice because their budget is almost endless and they have all the resources in the world to maximize every stage of the growing process.

I've thought of your advice about the foil and decided to tear it down, do you think egg-white walls are a problem?

The thing about my apartment is that i have literally NEVER had any unwanted guests and i've lived here for 2 years now. Its far out of town and the only people here are very trustworthy friends. But i'll talk to my "investor" and see what he thinks about all this.

thnx again

[cigarettes42]

you need some cfl's or flouros on those seedlings pronto. to me they look pretty stretched out already. notice how one almost cant support itself and is almost falling over? that soil looks way damp too!

[bigtopsfinn]

I've been thinking about the stretch myself, but its hard to imagine that they need more light... maybe it's a heat issue. This is totally off the top of my head, but could they be "running away" from the hps because of the heat? The young plants will enjoy lower temps; in flowering it's ok to have a little higher temps as long as it's in range.

I think the egg white isn't going to reflect very well, but probably better than the tinfoil anyways :jointsmile:

Apprentice? Hehe, I'm flattered but still a noob in many respects :weedpoke:

I like to help if I can, though!

[headshake]

tinfoil is not useless. just make sure to use the dull side as the shiny side will give you hot spots. but flat white is a better alternative. and you can veg you girls under CFLs with no problems what-so-ever. i ran my whole grow with CFLs and did fine. i also used foil for most of the grow.

be careful with your soil. it does look much too wet. it looks like one of them has the problem with the stem rotting. i can't remember the technical term at the moment. make sure to keep your soil mixture as close to the top of the pot as possible. at least within an inch. stale air can sit here and wreak havoc.

-shake

[bigtopsfinn]

Tinfoil might be ok with cfl's, but the fact that cfl's are only effective up to a couple inches, the light reflecting from the tin foil/white walls won't have much effect on your plants. I have never seen anyone recommend tinfoil just because of all the problems (wrinkling reflects light where you don't need it, hot spots), especially since he's got 2 HID's, and not cfl's. Only way to know for sure is to use it, but since people have had more problems with tinfoil than success, I sure wouldn't use it nor recommend it in this case, or any for that matter. Just my :twocents:

[bigtopsfinn]

This is from another site:


Aluminum foil is no more than 55% reflective - if used, make sure that the dull side is the one that is used to reflect the light. When it becomes creased its reflectivity is even lower (around 35%.) It is also very dangerous to use because it creates hotspots easily, is electrically conductive, and is a fire hazard when it is in close contact with HID lighting. Attaching this to walls is a pain and usually using aluminum tape or glue is the best way. This should only be used as a last resort, and even then its usefulness is questionable. Getting the most from your lights. - Grasscity.com Forums (http://forum.grasscity.com/general-indoor-growing/165331-getting-most-your-lights.html)

[bkordel]

About the damp soil....i had literally JUST watered them before taking the pics, so thats probably why. i will be taking down the tinfoil immediately, those hot-spots are not sitting too well with me

[bkordel]

OK so i just took down the foil, and to my liking the walls arent as "eggy" as i thought they were so thats good news....the stretching is my main concern at this point. i have an extremely hard time believing its from lack of light though so i'm running out of ideas....i've raised the lights greatly in comparison to how they were. Right now i'm at about 4 feet away. I've updated pics to show the walls "un-foiled" and to show the stretching.


(p.s. the small one in front was the seed that never germinated properly and i figured i might as well throw it in some soil to see what happens, i'll be removing her tomorrow if i see no progress.)

[frostedwonder]

Hey sorry about the stretch issue you are having, that sux and is one of the things I was worried about at first with my current grow. I would recommend when you sense the roots are growing good to re-pot and bury a bit deeper then usual and try a light fan on them/around them and don't be like me and water like a freak I did that eeck. do you have a light meter/water/ph? I bought one for 20 bucks would love to have that space you have I use a 4'l/30''w/4'h and for a first time indoor grow it is not easy to dial things in without funds and patience (I am out of both lol):)

[Forwhat420]

HPS are adequate for vegging but they do cause a little stretching. Similiar to the problems you are having. Also trainwreck is a plant that grows kind of spindly so I'm guessing that you are in the realms of being alright. You really need to work on your temps and ventillation though because that is what makes or breaks high end buds!!

[everTree]

The only bad thing about Aluminum is it asborbs heat.

[bigtopsfinn]

The only bad thing about Aluminum is it asborbs heat.

Please refer to my earlier post. Foil + HID's = dangerous! Safety first...:thumbsup:

I think it was a good idea about the fan... get those babies waving a little bit. They will stop growing up for a couple days and just fatten up its stem (which is a good thing anyways). Although I am not recommending it, I had a strong fan blowing on my baby for the entire first grow, and it turned out nicely. Anyways, a little more air flow should sturdy them up a little.

[irydyum]

HPS are adequate for vegging but they do cause a little stretching. Similiar to the problems you are having. Also trainwreck is a plant that grows kind of spindly so I'm guessing that you are in the realms of being alright. You really need to work on your temps and ventillation though because that is what makes or breaks high end buds!!

Very true about HPS causing stretch. They are concentrated in the red end of the spectrum and that by itself causes stretch. You could add a couple of side light fluoros or something to get the blue spectrum needed for veg. Also, I believe Hortilux makes an HPS bulb called the "Eye" which includes about 10% blue spectrum to discourage that internodal stretch.

I'm going to watch this tho, absolutely a huge fan of trainwreck.

Food for thought. Anyone know the true origin of TW?? I know that GH markets and sells the shit out of it, but I have heard tales of it being a California clone strain. Could be 2 different TWs I suppose, just wondering if anyone has looked in depth on it.

[bigtopsfinn]

Food for thought. Anyone know the true origin of TW?? I know that GH markets and sells the shit out of it, but I have heard tales of it being a California clone strain. Could be 2 different TWs I suppose, just wondering if anyone has looked in depth on it.

I've been reading trying to find some info about it myself. GH says its from the Arcata clone strain, guess they force hermied it or something since it's only fem. seeds available. The original Trainwreck was a mix of (I think) Lowland Thai, Mexican, and Afghani. I've also heard that it had columbian instead of thai.

One story says that the people planted this strain outdoors, and there was a train wreck nearby. They didn't want their plants discovered by the clean-up crews, so they went to pick them at about 8 weeks of flowering, thinking that they will not be finished yet with the dominant sativa genetics, but they to their surprise, they were done. There are some other stories too.

[Rusty Trichome]

i would greatly appreciate CONSTRUCTIVE CRITISISM....main point being constructive :)
Gotta be constructive...? Bummer.


LIGHTS: 2x 400W (800 total) HPS, about two feet from the plants. Lights set on 16-8 cycle, i know many use 24 hour lighting but i opted to play it safe. I know the lighting isnt quite enough for all of them but i didnt want to have a few extra seeds laying around so i just decided to do all at once as not all are guaranteed to fully mature.
I get 6 three gallon plants under each 400w HPS. Why so far away from the tops? I keep mine in the neighborhood of 12 to 16 inches. See how close you can get the back of your hand under a light. That is realistically how close you can get to the ladies...but backing it off a couple of inches is fine if ambient temps are a tad higher.


SOIL: All natural soil, 11-5-18 ( i know its not ideal but the grow shops here kinda suck) mixed with perlite. All natural, yet not organic...? What's the brand name, and isn't there a Miracle Grow mix available? If going with ferted soil, MG is fine and plentiful.


VENTILATION: OK this is where the most concern is with me, i have a table fan circulating the air in my grow room, not blowing directly on the plants. Circulation and ventilation is important. Why no oscillating fan blowing on 'em? They need the breeze to 'stress' some strength into the stems, and deliver fresh carbon dioxide.


GROW ROOM: I use a large walk-in closet (not sure the exact specs but plenty of room) I've coated the walls in aluminum foil because the color of the walls were not the best choice and i cant paint the walls as i am just renting the place Any shade of flat white is fine. From eggshell to mint...whatever. Mylar and foil suck. Too loud, it scratches, folds, bends, get's water-spotted, tears, falls on plants, and isn't free. Why go through all that if the walls are already painted? Not necessary to get anal over a couple of reflected lumens. But the heat build-up and retention from foil is not optimal. Especially if real humid where you live, you risk mold between the foil and the walls.


TEMPERATURE: OK another big concern i have...The temperature on average is 28-29, but sometimes it reaches 30-31. I know thats a little too high but i'm not too sure what i can do about that....any tricks would help greatly See my signature. Might be some helpful insight there about my experiences with growing in the desert.


CONCERNS: Ok the first thing i've noticed is that on some of the plants the tips of the leaves are curling under, on most its not an issue but a few are worrying me. I know that can happen if the lights are too close but i dont think thats it. And another is the on 2 of them they are not growing straight, they grow kind of sideways. please refer to the pictures...
Overwatering...?

Have you ever buried the seedling up to it's cotlydons...? (the little round leaves)

Were they mine, with that ammount of stretch...I'd get a gallon pot, measure to put exactly the ammount of soil in the bottom, (two inches, three inches...whatever it will take to lift the little round leaves just above the rim) transplant the stretching seedling into the pot, and spoon-in additional soil, packing it a tad. (using care not to crush, bend, fold, spindle or mutilate the stem) When finished, and you water it...the soil will sag. So add more soil, to level it out. Leave about 1/2 inch, to allow for future waterings.

Works every time, and is something I do to each and every seedling I grow. (for the past five years) From this trasnsplant, through to harvest...they never see a moment without an oscillating breeze on 'em. Just use care when adding soil, and packing it in. Grows fine, (this isn't a stressful technique...no developmental delays) and eventually grows roots from that buried stem.

[attachment=o214871] [attachment=o214872]

Kind of a bad example, but these are indica doms, and I planed-ahead for limited stretch. Were it my C-99 or Potent purple, (sativa doms) I'd have used the gallon pot technique mentioned above, instead of leaving them in the 2 cup pots.

[bkordel]

ok...

I've lowered the light to around 14 inches. I raised them because of the suspicion that it could be the heat causing the curling in the leaves, but after lookin at your posts i see thats not it...


My soil brand isnt anything known so u wouldnt recognise the name, but i'm confident with it.

And i do have an oscillating fan blowing around in there so thats cool too.

Its always a possibility that i'v been overwatering them but i dont think thats it, plus i have the soil mixed with perlite so should i ever add a little too much water it just seeps out the bottom. But note taken:)

Thnx for the pix, my babies are looking similar to yours so thnx for putting me at ease ;). Maybe i'm just thinking a little too much about things. Oh well, better safe than sorry. I'll be using your method when i transplant next week. I'll post new pics soon:thumbsup:

[stickyinsalem]

very very simple solution to your problems...FANS...you say you have one facing the opposite way...face it toward the little beauties...and then bury them deep in dirt so the nodes start about 3 inches up above the ground...takes care of your problem...as for your brown and curled up leaves....hmmmm......im gonna take a stab in the dark and say that you need to give them more NITROGEN...ever heard of nutrient blocking? u have the opposite....your plant is malnurished looking if you ask me....

[cigarettes42]

give them more NITROGEN...ever heard of nutrient blocking? u have the opposite....your plant is malnurished looking if you ask me....

seriously do you want him to kill his plants? seedlings SHOULD not be fed any kind of nutes until you have 3-4 nodes...... omg. dont give any advice if you havent had a sucessful grow. ive checked your post history and all i see is "Help ME" and "can i transplant 3 seedlings into different pots" <- i mean who does this newb kinda stuff?? 3 plants in one pot, and now your give some bad advice to someone that could possibly kill the seedling

[bkordel]

Hey all you stoners out there:thumbsup:

OK so i picked up some flouros today. Once again, they're not ideal but its all i could scrounge up last minute. I posted a pic of the tube i picked up, i got one that emits light on the blue spectrum. So how close can i have these lights to the babies? Check it out and tell me what you think.


Happy Smoking :rastasmoke:

[stickyinsalem]

pretty sure its a freee country...if he choses not to use my advice...then SO BE IT...as for your post...ive had plenty of grows...none that i wish to post...i didnt know you HAD to post successful grows on here...and im also sure just cause you have posted twice as much as me does not mean you are an expert...i give my plants a lot of nitrogen to start out with....and it works...you do as you want..its your life...dont understand why people have to be dicks though....

[bkordel]

Heh cant we all just get along?:hippy:

[bigtopsfinn]

So how close can i have these lights to the babies?

As close as you can without burning them... 2-3 inches max... so it should be adjustable also. Good luck!

[bkordel]

OK here are some pics with the new lights set up. I have them around 3 inches from the tops of the girls (They're a little closer now than the pics show, 3 inches now) , thinkin that should be ok cuz this light is making little to no heat. Only 15W but thats all i could find, better than nothin i suppose, and its that lovely blue light :). Or am i wrong?

[bigtopsfinn]

Yeah looks good. I just wanted to clarify what I said earlier, that 3 in. is the farthest away they should be (I think you understood anyways)...

Are you still using the HPS also??? I just don't think that 15w has nearly enough lumens to get you past the first week. Maybe 8 of those lights, but just one won't do much...

[bkordel]

yeah i'm only using the flouro, but now i will use HPS as well, thnx alot man. i cant be more grateful for the advice :thumbsup:

[bkordel]

ok i gotta say first, sorry for being a "whiner" i just wanna get this right....anyways, the flouro is sitting so low to the plants that i'm having a hard time positioning the hps in a way that it also shines on the plants. i have it rigged up so its kind of next to the plants with the reflector aimed towards them as opposed to shining down on them...dunno if thats a big deal.

[bigtopsfinn]

HPS on top and flouro on the side, that's how I would do it... Don't get too hung up about it at this stage... I think a fan blowing around the room will do more to stop the stretching than the flouro, but it can't hurt to have it unless it's blocking the light from the HPS.

[irydyum]

You can typically get the fluoros as close as 2-4 inches away from the plant without any adverse effects. If one of the leaves touches the bulb for a time it will burn it, but not like an HID.

[bkordel]

Just some updated pics :)

they seem to be looking much healthier now:D

[mj12780]

i need help ! im kinda new to this i know some of the basics i mean the real basics what do you use for nutrients from seedling through vegetation and so on?

[mj12780]

also can anyone piont me to a web site that has basic info on growing? i would be very greatful to anyone that could help.

[Kafe420]

also can anyone piont me to a web site that has basic info on growing? i would be very greatful to anyone that could help.

I find this video very helpful.
YouTube - Ready-Set-Grow Part 1of 7 UPDATED (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kq_e0tBM6rE)

[bigtopsfinn]

also can anyone piont me to a web site that has basic info on growing? i would be very greatful to anyone that could help.

Take some time to look around the boards and the different sections, especially the stickies at the tops of each section...

http://boards.cannabis.com/basic-growing/127522-simple-noob-instructions-growin-da-dankness.html

http://boards.cannabis.com/indoor-lighting/121311-el-cheapo-guide-lighting.html

http://boards.cannabis.com/indoor-growing/132514-noobs-guide-growroom-set-up-work-progress.html

That should get ya started :thumbsup:

Good luck!

Oh yea, if you have your own questions, start your own thread in the appropriate section, helps everyone...:thumbsup:

[bkordel]

Hello all.

Just some new updated pics with updated concerns ;). There's some yellowing in the leaves around the new leaves growing in. not too sure what the cause is....just thought i'd post it.


Happy smoking:jointsmile:

[bkordel]

ok guys bad news, the leaves are yellowing more and more and they look kinda dry and scaly, kidna curious cuz other people suggested the other problems i had were from over-watering, doesnt make sense....one of them has passed away, i'm posting pictures (sorry about the bad quality, hopefully you can see). I just got home and there i saw her laying down, dry as hell:( poor baby, i'm thinking she grew towards the light and eventually got too close as she was the one stretching most of all. In any case its clear the case is extreme dehydration. If anyone has any other ideas what it could be lemme know.

RIP

[cigarettes42]

pretty sure its a freee country...if he choses not to use my advice...then SO BE IT...as for your post...ive had plenty of grows...none that i wish to post...i didnt know you HAD to post successful grows on here...and im also sure just cause you have posted twice as much as me does not mean you are an expert...i give my plants a lot of nitrogen to start out with....and it works...you do as you want..its your life...dont understand why people have to be dicks though....

hey im not trying to be a dick. i just dont want to see a person on here feeding there seedlings with nutes that seedlings do not need. all the nutes seedlings need are in the cods, but i guess you know that since your a pro. you dont need to post grow logs in here to give advice, but if its whack like "giving a few day old seedlings nutes" then you should consider twice about posting. anyways im done. sorry bkordel for straying this thread, i just didnt want to see you burn your seedlings.

[cigarettes42]

ok guys bad news, the leaves are yellowing more and more and they look kinda dry and scaly, kidna curious cuz other people suggested the other problems i had were from over-watering, doesnt make sense....one of them has passed away, i'm posting pictures (sorry about the bad quality, hopefully you can see). I just got home and there i saw her laying down, dry as hell:( poor baby, i'm thinking she grew towards the light and eventually got too close as she was the one stretching most of all. In any case its clear the case is extreme dehydration. If anyone has any other ideas what it could be lemme know.

RIP

it could be from it being stretched so bad that it can uptake any water. you should consider buying some t8 or t5 flouros and not use the 400 watter. your seedlings dont require that much light yet. these are just a few of my baby girls under 3 4ft t5 flouros. ive started seeds from a 400 watt mh and tried with some flouros and t5 is the way to go. much bushier and cheaper on the electric bill.

[cannakeeper]

Ok bro, Heres what u do. While you add lots of N, be sure to ad lots of P as well as K.:S2:ROFL Damn I'm a smart-ass. lol But seriously.. Try starting out with some cfl's rather than a tube, a series of them put out very good lumens and wide spectrum. Switch over to the HID when you start feeding. I have a 400 hps with a tube and 210 cfm centrif fan in my closet space, it gets 72-74 deg. I would think a pair of 4 hundies with bat wings would get way higher than 87-88 deg but still kinda high for seedlings IMO, may be causing issues. Combined with hot, damp soil may be showing some sort of wilt/damping disease(fusarium, verticillium, pythium). All in all, I think Ciggs, Finn, shake and Rusty has you hooked up....they have a habit of that shit.lol:greenthumb: Also, your soil can still dry out after/while wilt occurs from some evap appearing dry later.

[bkordel]

OK guys thnx for the suggestions. I rooted around my storage and discovered the i actually had a 4ft flouro :D I'm not 100% sure what kind it is but on the bulb it says "PHILIPS TL 40W/25". I'm not using the 400W HPS at the moment, it just dries out the babies so freakin fast, Oh and i also have them on 24H cycle now that i just have the flouros. In any case, the leaves are getting a little more darker green color which makes me a happy camper :) I had to put 2 of them in the same pot as i only had 7 total, but thats just a temporary solution.

take a look at the pics and lemme know what you think.

[bkordel]

ok i'm at the end of my rope here:mad: The babies keep deteriorating and wilting. Little dark spots have started to show on one of them. I've grown before with much less of the resources i have now and NEVER had such problems and i'm at a complete lack of ideas. I remember once i grew with a small 24" flouro and it THRIVED. Yes they are growing, but slow as fuck and none of them look particularly healthy. C'mon all you growing vets, throw me a bone. What the hell is wrong? Humidity? Soil? Lighting? I know what everyone is saying, cfl cfl cfl cfl. But i've grown successfully and without problems without them so i know that cant be all thats wrong. Possibly too many nutes in the soil for the little ones to handle? I havent added ANY more nutes than what was already in soil when i bought it. posting pics soon. HELP HELP HELP, i'm at the brink of giving up on them:(

[bkordel]

Sorry about the bad pic quality, you should still see what i mean. C'mon guys i feel like i've giving you enough material for a diagnoses. The light at the end of the tunnel is fading, help me. I dont wanna start all over again cuz these seeds arent the cheapest in the world, 50 euros for 10 "OUCH":(

[cigarettes42]

hey you are using a ph meter to your water right? that could be a problem if you arnt. also i didnt see what kind of water are you using. bottled water you need to add calmag. calcium and iron deficiency will spot like that as well with hot soil. with those n-p-k #'s in the soil you should consider doing a flush cause its kinda hot for seedlings. if your pots are 1 pint pots then flush with 3 pints of ph water. then let it get dry again before watering. i had a problem like brown spots from overferted soil in seedlings. try that. you wont see a huge difference right away and those leaves wont get any better. just look for new growth and monitor that. dont stress out too much about it. im not guaranteeing that its going to get better but i had a seedling that got burnt from using hot soil and looked worse than yours w/o the stretch and they survived just nicely. just think positive, not worth getting to stressed cause they are just seeds now. imagine if it were a mature flowering plant. i would stress out then. you can always buy more seeds but you cant buy time! keep me posted. i want to see how it turns out. also dont put 2 seeds in one pot. it will rootbound for sure. it might not be to late to separate them. if you dont have an extra pot right now a foam/plastic cup with holes will do the trick.

[bkordel]

ok guy. all the babies are gone. cause of death: nutrient burn. the brown spots started to show even in the new growth and they were not gaining any height so i just decided to start over from scratch. tomorrow i'm buying soil made for seedlings. the name isnt in english but translated its called "seedling soil" so that should be great, very little to no nutrients in it at all. this time i'll be going for himalaya gold instead of trainwreck from ghs. i'll keep you posted.