several small signs of something wrong, pics provided

[Elisabeth65]

'ello everybody! This is not really an urgent "help me"-post, I just have some questions due to small irregularities that I've observed on my plants recently. As the grow-geek I am, I like to know as much as possible about how my plants are doing. Anyways, thanks for reading :stoned:

This is a 5 week old NL plant. I've noticed some strange spots on the plant, and been wondering what they could be. I've had problems keeping the RH up, due to high ventilation requirements (I grow in a very small closet).

some fast details:

lights: 250w MH, 24/0, 15 inches from tops
soil composition:65% pre-fertilized soil, 35% perlite
watering schedule: every 3-4 days
fertilizer: BioBizz BioGrow + epsom salts
potsize: 5 litres

temperature: 80-85
RH: 25-40
PH: 6.7-6.8

pic1

Might these brown spots indicate a calcium deficiency? They are spreading very slowly.

pic2

These grey/bleached spots I guess are heat stress, but the plants haven't been exposed to very high temperatures. They're not spreading. Guess this is nothing to worry about?

pic3

bassically the same as pic 2

pic 4

The leaf on the lower right side in this photo shows magnesium deficiency right? I don't get this, as I've used lots of epsom salts to try to cure it (3ml/l).

Also, generally, new growth on both plants have gotten paler recently (brighter green). Could this be linked to magnesium deficiency, or is something else wrong?

again, TY for reading! :)

[WhiskeyTango]

plants look mighty damn healthy to me. Could just be genetics. I would used 2ml of calmag per liter. Better than the epsoms because you are getting magnesium and calcium....few other goodies as well. I keep my veg RH around 30-40 as well. Dont seem to have any issues. Rest easy elisabeth, I think your fine.:Greenthumb:
good vibes

[Dutch Pimp]

I agree. Don't sweat the small stuff. Just WATCH, the new growth! New growth will be lighter in color.

The way I grow?...if it's growing...it's growing..:thumbsup:...old leaves, is old news.

[Rusty Trichome]

C'mon guys...if you are here to help, read her info...


'ello everybody!
Hello. Welcome.

I've had problems keeping the RH up, due to high ventilation requirements (I grow in a very small closet).
Your RH isn't nearly as important as temps. If concerned, an occational mist using ph'd water is fine. I live in the desert, where ambient RH is around 9%, and have found they prefer the lower RH. Especially when flowering.
Do you have adequate ventilation and air circulation?


some fast details:

lights: 250w MH, 24/0, 15 inches from tops
soil composition:65% pre-fertilized soil, 35% perlite
watering schedule: every 3-4 days
fertilizer: BioBizz BioGrow + epsom salts
potsize: 5 litres
Epsom salts every nutrient day? The dingy yellowing is likely a result of salt build-up throwing off your ph, and creating a toxic soil enviornment. (early lockout) A good flush will help release the salts, but wait till the soil drys, or you will risk root rot.
Official Epsom Salts Not Miracle Cure Thread (http://boards.cannabis.com/plant-problems/164861-official-epsom-salts-not-miracle-cure-thread.html)


pic1 & 2
Might these brown spots indicate a calcium deficiency? They are spreading very slowly. Not likely if it's the only plant showing these signs. What's your water and runoff ph? Are you using tap water?
Looks like you've been adding stuff to correct deficiencies, and have overwatered as a result.


pic3 (top right photo)
These grey/bleached spots I guess are heat stress, but the plants haven't been exposed to very high temperatures. They're not spreading. Guess this is nothing to worry about? Looks like leaf-irritation from another plant or leaf, to me. (the fans can blow the leaves back-n-forth across another leaf, causing those spots)


pic 4 (the bottom one)
The leaf on the lower right side in this photo shows magnesium deficiency right? I don't get this, as I've used lots of epsom salts to try to cure it (3ml/l). Or magnesium toxicity.

Also, generally, new growth on both plants have gotten paler recently (brighter green). Could this be linked to magnesium deficiency, or is something else wrong?
Again...back to the lockout. (ph is likely screwed-up)

[WhiskeyTango]

C'mon guys...if you are here to help, read her info...

Looks like the same advice to me Rusty. I just didn't elaborate to your extent I guess .:smokin:
good vibes

[Rusty Trichome]

Guess I shouldn't have said anything. :wtf:
-but-
Twasn't intended as an insult. Troubleshooting can be a bitch, and I'm also guilty of missing occational clues, too. I wasn't trying to slam the responders. I'm just asking those that offer help to please pay closer attention. :thumbsup:

I don't think any of us would purposely do anything that may cost someone their grow, and I'm not saying this is the case. However, sometimes a lack of information can be as detrimental as giving the wrong info.

But then again...Pedantic is my middle name, lol.
Pedantic (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pedantic)

[Elisabeth65]

Your RH isn't nearly as important as temps. If concerned, an occational mist using ph'd water is fine. I live in the desert, where ambient RH is around 9%, and have found they prefer the lower RH. Especially when flowering.
Do you have adequate ventilation and air circulation?

Yeah, I got 2 small computer fans blowing air in, and one duct-fan with carbon filter pumping air out, maintaining underpressure in the closet. I am however getting a cool tube soon, I'd like to get my setup to run even less noisy.



Epsom salts every nutrient day? The dingy yellowing is likely a result of salt build-up throwing off your ph, and creating a toxic soil enviornment. (early lockout) A good flush will help release the salts, but wait till the soil drys, or you will risk root rot.
Official Epsom Salts Not Miracle Cure Thread (http://boards.cannabis.com/plant-problems/164861-official-epsom-salts-not-miracle-cure-thread.html)

Yeah, I've used lots of epsom salts recently. I haven't used them on every watering tho, only the last two. Last time I watered the plants I did a PH test, and it came out at about 6,8. Isn't that quite optimal for soil-grown cannabis?
A salt buildup in the soil sounds likely indeed, gonna ease down on the epsom salts. Definitely gonna flush the soil too, thanks




Not likely if it's the only plant showing these signs. What's your water and runoff ph? Are you using tap water?
Looks like you've been adding stuff to correct deficiencies, and have overwatered as a result.

runoff pH: 6.7-.6.8. It's been stable throughout the entire growth period (measured 3 times).
I use tap water, which is a bit hard I guess, with a pH of 7,5-7.8. This pH drops to about 7 when I add nutrients.
Unfortunately, I don't have a ppm meter. Would love to know the EC of my tap water.
I don't think I've overwatered either, my soil dries up quickly, as I have lots of perlite and lots of holes in the pot (both under and on the sides of the pot). I water when I feel no moisture 3-4 inches down with my finger.



Looks like leaf-irritation from another plant or leaf, to me. (the fans can blow the leaves back-n-forth across another leaf, causing those spots)

That made sense, didn't know about that. The plants have had a lot of wind blown at them by the table fan, maybe too much. The angle of the fan has been shifted so that they now receive less direct air ventilation.



Or magnesium toxicity.

Are the symptoms of magnesium toxicity=magnesium deficiency?
I thought the signs of magnesium toxicity were lockout of calsium, potassium and phosphorous, with deficiency-symptoms of those nutrients.

Thanks for the help everyone:thumbsup: I'm gonna go ahead and flush the plants once they dry up again. I'll post back here later with the results :] peace :stoned:

[WhiskeyTango]

I wasn't trying to slam the responders. I'm just asking those that offer help to please pay closer attention. :thumbsup:

I don't think any of us would purposely do anything that may cost someone their grow, and I'm not saying this is the case. However, sometimes a lack of information can be as detrimental as giving the wrong info.

But then again...Pedantic is my middle name, lol.
Pedantic (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pedantic)

Might fine points! And hell yeah that should be your screen name rusty, lol. Wasnt taking it too literal, just a lil poke in the ribs. Pedantic is as pedantic does......lol
Your in good hands elisabeth, lots of helpful people here, take some of our banter lightly though, very colorful personalities on this site!
good vibes

[Rusty Trichome]

No worries WT...I get a tad full of myself on occation. I appologize.

Elizabeth:
Did you read the Epsom salt thread...? If not, I'd do so before you add any more. You are compounding your problems. Also, were it a mag. def...one application is all she'd need. At most, once every couple of weeks, or once a month. Doubtful it's mag defeciency, though. Like DP said, old leaves are old news. You are likely chasing an old deficiency. Look for healthy new growth on newer leaves.

Nutrient Stress Guide (http://www.marijuana-seeds.net/Thanks/ThankYou.htm)

If it's not overwatering, how often are you spraying, and what are you spraying? In my garden, that pillowing of the leaves is usually due to overwatering, or consistently high humidity. (spraying the leaves too often counts, too) The plant is uptaking more moisture than it's able to expel through respiration and evaporation. Might just be the plant's lockout condition though.

After adding the nutes to your water, wait about twenty minutes, stir, and re-test the ph. If it remains stable, no real worries. But in your soil, there are buffers (likely it's lime) already there. Even if your water ph is 7.5, it can easily show a 6.8 or 7.0 runoff...for a while. Not an optimal condition, as the buffers in the top soil zones will deplete quickly, and the high ph will eventually catch up with your upper root zones, and start to burn her upper roots.
I adjust my 8.0 ph well water to about 6.8 or 6.9, then I add nutes. (Fox Farms) Has never let me down. What do you adjust ph with? (please don't say "nutrients", lol)



I thought the signs of magnesium toxicity were lockout of calsium, potassium and phosphorous, with deficiency-symptoms of those nutrients.
Not really. And I've never had, nor heard of, actual mag deficiency in pre-mixed soils, and using commercial nutrients. But it was a lazy mans diagnosis for quite a while. Growing outdoors, I can see where there could be a magnesium def.
Lockout can be caused from too high ph, too low ph, heat stress, overwatering, too cold, overnute, high humidity, calling it hurtful names...but usually it's from letting the soil parameters get out of whack.

[Elisabeth65]

Yes, I did read that thread. I said I was gonna "ease down" the use of epsom salts. By that I literally meant "stop using" :p I should just have said "stop using" to begin with, sorry.

Old leaves are old news, gonna remember that one dutch pimp ;)

ok, so I should pH adjust my water to about 6.7, then add ferts?

I'm not and have never used any kind of spray on my plants, be it nutes or just plain water. Maybe I've watered too much after all.


Not really. And I've never had, nor heard of, actual mag deficiency in pre-mixed soils, and using commercial nutrients. But it was a lazy mans diagnosis for quite a while. Growing outdoors, I can see where there could be a magnesium def.
Lockout can be caused from too high ph, too low ph, heat stress, overwatering, too cold, overnute, high humidity, calling it hurtful names...but usually it's from letting the soil parameters get out of whack.

It is well known, atleast around here (http://www.uk420.com/boards/index.php?showtopic=20954&st=0&p=144418&#entry144418) that BioBizz BioGrow does not contain magnesium. If it does, it is not enough to avoid a magnesium deficiency (my soil contains very little magnesium). So I need to add epsom salts during a grow, however I've probably used too much of it this time.

[Rusty Trichome]

I said I was gonna "ease down" the use of epsom salts. By that I literally meant "stop using" :p I should just have said "stop using" to begin with, sorry. Yeah...


I'm not and have never used any kind of spray on my plants, be it nutes or just plain water. Maybe I've watered too much after all. You can't have it both ways...either you overwater, or not. Pick a story (preferabaly the truth) and stick with it.


It is well known, atleast around here (http://www.uk420.com/boards/index.php?showtopic=20954&st=0&p=144418&#entry144418) that BioBizz BioGrow does not contain magnesium. If it does, it is not enough to avoid a magnesium deficiency (my soil contains very little magnesium). So I need to add epsom salts during a grow, however I've probably used too much of it this time.

Oh really...? Well known...? At least around the UK...? No wonder you came here.
Anyway...Their (BioBizz) product info (for both, the veg and bloom formula's) says it's derived from molasses.
BioBizz product info (http://www.gchydro.com/detail.asp?product_id=xbiogrow)

WHFoods: Blackstrap molasses (http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=118)

Nutrition Facts and Analysis for Molasses (http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/sweets/5573/2) (scroll down to Minerals)
That's just a couple. Around 8% or so of most variety's of unsulphered blackstrap molasses is magnesium.

Ingredients: Organic Blackstrap Molasses
Nutrition Facts:
Serving Size 1 Tbsp (22g)
Servings Per Container 32
Amount Per Serving
Calories 60
Calories from Fat 0
Total Fat 0g
Saturated Fat 0g
Trans Fat 0g
Potassium 730mg
Calcium 115mg
Total Carbohydrates 14g
Sugars 10g
Iron 15%
Vitamin B6 10%
Magnesium 8%
Sodium 0%
Not a significant source of Sodium, Dietary Fiber, Protein, Vitamin A or Vitamin C
Minor differences depending on brand.

I'll avoid getting into micro's and soil composition, as you seem to have your shit figured-out.

IMHO, if you need help, and it's given, likely not in good form to make excuses, change your story, and get testy with the answers provided, when you seem clueless. It's simple...make-up your mind what you want to tell us, (again...preferabaly the truth) and don't change the story half-way through. It's not my garden that's going to suffer because of your pride...it's yours.

Good luck. :jointsmile: