Seed Sprouting Problem

[Redneck020]

I am currently starting up another round of babies, and there seems to be a bit of a problem on over half of them(30 total). They have all come out of the ground and shed their seed shell. But the ones in question still have a clear "film" holding the cody's together so they cant bloom out. It would be nice if i could just pull the stuff off, but its on there pretty good. They just popped up today so if i can get it off soon, they should be ok, right?? Any reason why this is happening? Never happened before. Also, if there are any suggestions on ways to get this crap off, it would help.

[Divestoned]

you can mist them, and gently remove it.Or you can just wait an the plant will do it.

[Rusty Trichome]

Don't dick with them too much. They are at a very vulnerable stage.

As the seedling grows, and the baby leaves (cotelydons) fill-in, usually they will outgrow and shed this cover on it's own. Damaging the 'baby' leaves or the stem just to remove this isn't a good idea. The seeds have been going through this process since the dawn of (cannabis) time, and they should be fine without assistance. :thumbsup:

[bigtopsfinn]

Heads up for next time...the ones with the seed cover still attached were planted too shallow.

[Rusty Trichome]

Doubtful, but it's something to ponder. Only way I could see that mattering, is if the cotelydons grow enough while still underground to make it seem like it's shedding the cover quicker. But then it would shed it's helmet (the hard seed cover) before breaking ground.

My guess is that it all depends on the techniques, ambient conditions and nutes used during seed maturation, (while still on the plant) ...and the strain.

Like I said though...just a guess.

[bigtopsfinn]

This was from the Mandala site.

"Sometimes the seed hull and the inside skin is still attached to or enclosing the leaves. This happens if the seed was not planted deeply enough. Usually the seed hull is detached as the seedling emerges through the substrate." Germination Troubleshooting Guide (http://www.mandalaseeds.com/html/germination_troubleshooting_gu.html)

It makes sense to me, that the friction between the seed and the dirt while growing upwards would have some effect on detaching it from the cotelydons...

Then again, Rusty makes a good point... Hey shit happens, nothing you could to about it.

[Rusty Trichome]

This was from the Mandala site.

"Sometimes the seed hull and the inside skin is still attached to or enclosing the leaves. This happens if the seed was not planted deeply enough. Usually the seed hull is detached as the seedling emerges through the substrate." Germination Troubleshooting Guide (http://www.mandalaseeds.com/html/germination_troubleshooting_gu.html)

It makes sense to me, that the friction between the seed and the dirt while growing upwards would have some effect on detaching it from the cotelydons...

Then again, Rusty makes a good point... Hey shit happens, nothing you could to about it.

Sorry...but I respectfully disagree with the website claims. The hard outer seed cover isn't attached to the inner seed cover, (or it would always come-off with the hard cover) so friction on the outside shell has nothing to do with the inner workings. Only way I can envision it making a difference is in the length of maturity (in days) that the seed is underground. But that's not a friction thing, it's a size/maturity thing.

[Dutch Pimp]

I had one seed send it's taproot up out of the soil, first...and died.

I think some seeds are just fucked from the start

[bigtopsfinn]

No apologies needed my friend:jointsmile:

I always like hearing your perspective on these matters, as do most of the people here:thumbsup:

[Rusty Trichome]

No apologies needed my friend:jointsmile:

It wasn't an appology. But it is personal insight you can either accept or reject. Not a big deal either way, but their reasononing for this concept seems tangental, at best. Knowing a little about plant biology, (just a little) I'm dubious as to it's verascity. :jointsmile:

[Redneck020]

Thanx for all of the replies yall.

i know that i had let the taproots get a bit too long in the paper towels, before i planted them, and i guess it is quite possible that i didnt plant them deep enough. I generally put my seed about a half inch deep, maybe i slipped up a bit. It also took little more than 24 hours before they were popping up.

Now, some of the ones that were in question, have shed the clear shell. So i guess its just a matter of time before the rest of them do. I did mist them all a lil bit, thinking it might help break down the clear shell, for faster removal. I will probably keep misting them ever few hours until theyre all in the clear. Thanks for the help yall.

BTW, does anyone know why i cant leave yall any Rep??

[bigtopsfinn]

You need 50 posts first...:jointsmile:

Good luck with your grow!

[Rusty Trichome]

I used the paper towel method for a couple of years, but results were spotty, and you can smell the chlorine in some brands of paper.

Lately I've taken to adding some seedling soil (about a half inch, to retain moisture) to one of those small (2" wide x 4" long x 3" deep, or so) Ziplock storage containers. I place my seeds to the top, and spray till soil is fairly damp (not soaking) with ph'd water. Cover, and place on top of the fridge. Open daily for fresh air and to check the moisture. Great success rate, and no worries about chlorine or other chemicals from the paper.

When seeds crack-open, (barely a taproot, 2 to 4 days) I use tweezers to transfer to it's pot. I bury it between one and two times the size of the seed. (1/8 inch deep, or so) Always have. None of the problems mentioned in above posts from doing it this way, which makes me doubt the website claim.

[Redneck020]

I know what you are saying about the smelly towels, ive smelt it a few times before. I havent ever heard of the way you sprout your seeds, but i think i will give it a try. It sounds easy enough, and it should work really well. Thanks again!!

[Rusty Trichome]

Every once in a while I come up with a good idea or two.
Make sure it gets some fresh air, a couple of times a day. :jointsmile:

[jkalb42]

i guess i've only sprouted 10-15 seeds, but i've had 100% success with putting the seed straight into a dixie cup of soil, watering, and forgetting about it in the dark back of the closet for about 5 days. maybe i'm just lucky? they're usually between 1-2 inches tall when i take them out of the closet.

[zemaze]

i've removed the caps and inner seed cover always with success but you should be extra careful and dont blame me if you kill em. i never killed one. i use clean hair tweezers and i place the sprout right in front of my eye level not having to hold it with my warm fingers for long and i could remove it delicately this way. like i said it never failed and the stressed seeds get me stressed too when they take too long to show their nice green leaves:) gd luck

[Weezard]

I used the paper towel method for a couple of years, but results were spotty, and you can smell the chlorine in some brands of paper.

Lately I've taken to adding some seedling soil (about a half inch, to retain moisture) to one of those small (2" wide x 4" long x 3" deep, or so) Ziplock storage containers. I place my seeds to the top, and spray till soil is fairly damp (not soaking) with ph'd water. Cover, and place on top of the fridge. Open daily for fresh air and to check the moisture. Great success rate, and no worries about chlorine or other chemicals from the paper.

When seeds crack-open, (barely a taproot, 2 to 4 days) I use tweezers to transfer to it's pot. I bury it between one and two times the size of the seed. (1/8 inch deep, or so) Always have. None of the problems mentioned in above posts from doing it this way, which makes me doubt the website claim.

Seems to me that the common variable here, is moisture.
If a seed is too shallow, it can stick it's head up and have that film" dry and harden before it tears.
If it's planted deep enough, it stays moist and tearable while the cotyledons swell enough to tear it.

There was a great grow book in the '60s that drew diagrams of cannabis seeds and insisted that it made a big difference whether one planted then pointed end up, or down.
When they sprout, the tap root always comes out the same end of the seed and always make a U-turn.
If the tap root pokes out the top of the seed, it makes a U-turn and starts drilling down.
Then the bent stem pulls at the seed shell with the split facing up and soil friction helps pop it open and off. Then all is well.

If the taproot pokes out the bottom of the seed, it makes an S-turn. (Curves up then curves back down. )
That eats most of it's stored energy and usually stunts the plant. It also kills the leverage needed for lifting it's head and setting itself free.

Just a penny or two of thoughts on planting seeds in soil.

Trouble is, I can never remember which end is supposed to point down. :o

Aloha
Weezard

[jkalb42]

yeah, i didn't write that down, but i always put my seeds 1/4" to 1/2" under the soil, with the pointy end of the seed down. It was one of the first things i read, about the u-turn of the taproot and all. I have only once had to pull something off a sprout, where only one of the leaves was stuck in the clear thing.

[Rusty Trichome]

If a seed is too shallow, it can stick it's head up and have that film" dry and harden before it tears.
If it's planted deep enough, it stays moist and tearable while the cotyledons swell enough to tear it.
Could very well be. But not in my personal experience. I have always been told to plant a seed no deeper than double it's diameter, and that is how I've done it for over thirty years, lol. The deeper you plant it, the more energy it takes the seed to push it's head out of the soil...and it won't get any additional energy until exposed to the sun.


There was a great grow book in the '60s that drew diagrams of cannabis seeds and insisted that it made a big difference whether one planted then pointed end up, or down. When they sprout, the tap root always comes out the same end of the seed and always make a U-turn. That's great, if it didn't move every time the soil is even slightly disturbed. (like every time you water) I've had seeds sprout from between the cup and the soil, but I plant my seeds in the middle of the cup. They migrate under the soil fairly easily. (they float with the 'tide')


If the tap root pokes out the top of the seed, it makes a U-turn and starts drilling down. Then the bent stem pulls at the seed shell with the split facing up and soil friction helps pop it open and off. Then all is well. True for gourds and the like, but unnecessary for cannabis. We're talking about the internal seed cover, not the shell though.


Trouble is, I can never remember which end is supposed to point down. :o Doesn't really matter, unless you're going to glue it in place, lol. :thumbsup:

[Redneck020]

ok guys, its been 4 days since the ladies came up, and there were 4 that still had the clear coating(do we have a name for this) on them last night. So i said screw it, do what i can with em......I took care of 3 of em, and the lsat one i buggered up real bad, lol. Theres only about 1/3 of each Coty left now, lol, i ripped the shit out it. The other ones came off easy tho.

Is there anything to be said about it taking 4 days, and still not shedding the clear coating?? As i said before, i was misting them as often as possible(about every 6 hrs), thinking it would help break down the stuff. I dont kno if it did or not, cause those last 4 jus didnt wana shed.

I know i will certainly do something different next time, tho i dont kno what yet. I wonder if it has something to do with shitty genes or something?? Do you guys think its jus the way this strain is?? You kno, like a hereditary disease......

[Weezard]

Aloha Rusty.

"Doesn't really matter, unless you're going to glue it in place, lol. :thumbsup: "
__________________


I see yer problem.
Ya gotta quit planting those mexican jumping beans:jumphappy:!

Regards,
Weezard

[TehweedDocs]

Just let the seedlings take their course, there is nothing you can possibly do without accidentally damaging the stem or new leaves. Plant a little bit deeper next time. I find planting at 3/4 of an inch is very sufficient; I also use a low out-put heat lamp to supply heat, which is known to help speed up the process.