philosphical question here

[juggalo420]

is a persons mind and being connected indefinetly to his memories and experiences even to the point of death, or can a person be the same person through some other sort of being even if he has no memory of his past. im thinking of reincarnation, like if a person were to die and be reborn could they be the same person without having the memories from their past life. i guess the real question is what constitutes what an individual is, is it his memories and past experiences or something tottaly different?


i dont believe in reincarnation but i was just reading an artical about it and i thought of this question, i thought id post it here as opposed to spirituality board just to try an get a larger response.

[ermitonto]

What if there is only one consciousness? That is, while things appear to be living simultaneously, all of our lives are a single entity experiencing the life of each organism that ever existed or will exist sequentially, and that currently it is in the middle of my life (or from your perspective in my experiential past or future, your life).

[juggalo420]

What if there is only one consciousness? That is, while things appear to be living simultaneously, all of our lives are a single entity experiencing the life of each organism that ever existed or will exist sequentially, and that currently it is in the middle of my life (or from your perspective in my experiential past or future, your life).
yet, that would also mean the individual is dispensible, and in real world terms what is this single being, where is it, whats it purpose? also where when did this being form, does it include cro-magnum and neanderthal man or just modern homo-sapien, if only the later why? does this only include human life or the animal kingdom also? what is the purpose of the individual then if we are not unique (if its just for experience, experience for what purpose), what is the purpose of this single entity, is it consciece of itself?

[Rarrr]

The thing that makes me doubt reincarnation is the fact that poultations will incrase and decrease. So what will happen to the souls that are left out when the population decreases, in limbo until a space becomes available? I doubt if you could retain any knowledge or memory after death otherwise youd think someone on this planet would remember his/her past life but mayb we travel to a new dimension when we die and this is just a test to get into a higher plain of existance. If there is a even is a soul im pretty sure itd retain nothing (or maybe a plain between life existance) but we can never tell until the day comes....

[poorman3]

if you believe in reincarnation, i think your just scared!

[larry]

There is no future

There is only past and present that exist in reality.

[ermitonto]

yet, that would also mean the individual is dispensible, and in real world terms what is this single being, where is it, whats it purpose? also where when did this being form, does it include cro-magnum and neanderthal man or just modern homo-sapien, if only the later why? does this only include human life or the animal kingdom also? what is the purpose of the individual then if we are not unique (if its just for experience, experience for what purpose), what is the purpose of this single entity, is it consciece of itself?

Well, I was thinking of something that would experience the lives of every living thing that has ever attained consciousness. But who could say that it was one entity, if no memories could pass from one life to the next? Personally, I believe your experience just ends when you die. There is no more you, and you can't care because there's no you to care about the fact that you're dead.

[juggalo420]

There is no future

There is only past and present that exist in reality.
i dont see how the past exsists in any tangible way except in memory and memory is often flawed, while scars and such may reveal the past once did exist it doesnt show it currently exsists.

the past and future dont exsist, one has ended and the other yet to come, and the present doesnt exist because once you try to consentrate on it it becomes the past and therefor ceasess to be, so nothing exsists in, time isnt real.

^just a thought

[bum]

consider this:

tabula rasa (i think)... blank slate. we are born empty, experiencing through our senses. everything we have recorded has created "us". there is only one moment, no past or future, which are only created in our mind. memories are just logs of sensory experience.

if you want to approach it assuming reincarnation is true, i would be swayed to believe that we have a small consciousness that moves from body to body, and the brain records experience and memory. reincarnation maybe isn't so personal. it's a scoop of the river moved from cup to cup. you're nobody. we are all purely identical, only our vessels and environment creates the "individual".

[BlastedTOtheSKY]

To answer your question...if a person can be the same person(have the same personality) or be a diff person if they cant remember their whole lifes memories.....

I would say No, because a persons memories effect the way a persons thinking becuase memories are experiences, learning and shit like that...

Example, if a persons life consists of extreme negativity, than the person has only seen negative shit and will act negative....
But, if the persons life consists of flawless positive memories, then the person will definetly, for sure have a different personality, and be a very diff. person, then the person who had only negative memories....

[juggalo420]

To answer your question...if a person can be the same person(have the same personality) or be a diff person if they cant remember their whole lifes memories.....

I would say No, because a persons memories effect the way a persons thinking becuase memories are experiences, learning and shit like that...

Example, if a persons life consists of extreme negativity, than the person has only seen negative shit and will act negative....
But, if the persons life consists of flawless positive memories, then the person will definetly, for sure have a different personality, and be a very diff. person, then the person who had only negative memories....
i feel theres something in us a layer beneath our behaviors and attitudes that determines who we are, part of our ego, our inner-monologue that isnt the direct result of enviormental upbringing.

heres an example- when i was 5 years old i was a friendly child, when i was 12 i was withdrawn socially, again at age 15 i started to come out of my shell, 17 very depressed, currently about 19 and more or less socially normal. Even though enviormental effects were the cause of my behaviors, i was still the same person through out any changes in attitude and behavior i experienced, the same ego regardless of enviormental effects persisted in me.

[2600]

One of my favorite arguments for reincarnation, or preservation of the consciousness (in whatever form it takes after biological life), is the conservation of mass/energy. THere exists a finite amount of matter + energy in the universe, that can neither be created nor destroyed (only transferred from one state to another). Assuming our souls/cosnciousness'/spiritsetc are energy, then that energy would be preserved even after death.

Of course my favorite argument against that theory is that while it's true energy is preserved, it is not always preserved in the same form. The arrangement of neural tissue, and frequencies of electrical firings, define us more so than the actual energy of the neural impulses, or mass of carbon based flesh do themselves. Although the actual matter and energy will be preserved, it's patterns may or may not be.
____
It is true that "who we are" = our memories, but we are also simultaneously more and less than those memories:

Someone above said something to the effect of "Reincarnation is not possible, otherwise we would have memories of our past lives." Makes sense, but do we all have memories for even "this" whole life? How about your first three years? I am sure I existed before the age of three, but I have no memory of it. In this way, I am more than my memories.

But lets say for instance we started encoding information in a way that allowed memories to start being retained not at three, but from birth. Even then I cannot say that all of my memories reflect what I know about my life. Have you ever had a false memory, or remember a dream as if it really happened? The reconstructive nature of memories is well documented (when there are gaps to be filled, we fill in the blanks, and it becomes real in the memory). So in this way, we are less than our memories.

Our life = our memory, but we can't accept anything as absolute truth except for our own consciousness, that we are specifically aware of. Even if shared (as someone suggested) with other beings of this time and space, or shared with beings or objects across other dimensions, times, and universes, all we can observe as absolute truth is the consciousness (singular awareness), and nothing more.

Regarding what someone said of time: "THere is no future, there is only past and present in reality." Time is irrelevant- you are just as much you now as you were you ten years ago. THe past already hapenned, and it happened only one way, so since the future hasn't happened yet, it is not reality, right? Because it can still be changed. Well, although it hasn't happened yet, and could go any infinite number of directions, there is only one of those directions it can take, and you will exist (or cease to exist) eventually in the future as much as you do now, and that existence is at least as real (or no more real) than the present and past.

We create time as a barrier construct to keep things in perspective. Process only the now, access the past or future when it applies to the now, otherwise, barrier activated, prevent interference . When we dream, or tap into hallucin. experiences, then those barriers along with others crumble, and new perspective is formed with a completely different set of boundaries.

One thing you are right about in holding different criteria for reality in terms of past, present and future is when it comes to consciousness- just because I have memories of thinking in the past, does not mean I actually thought (or existed) in the past. The only absolute is consciousness now, because past memories could be a trick (ie reconstructive memories). But if someone was tricking me in the present to make me think that I have a consciousness, if I in fact did not, then that would mean there is a consciousness for them to trick in the first place; contradiction!

[kiwi]

:confused: Well all of that has really got me thinking? Idon't think any of us will ever really know, its like the great question.....What is the meaning of life?" But at the end of the day I could or any of us may have been reincarnated!!!! How would we know???????????? :eek: