First Grow! TurboGarden

[Mr. Champ]

Here goes nothing. Interesting grow so far and a few difficult hurdles along the way. Please critique every possible aspect you see that could be improved. I have never seen these beautiful plants growing in person before this experience. Thanks for looking!

Here are the specs:
â?¢Ebb/flow Turbogarden by Botanicare. Seeds started in paper towels in a tupperware container. Seedings grow in rockwool cubes which are placed in hydroton filled pots once the roots show.
â?¢Strains: Mandala Satori, Flying Dutchmen Sativa Divas: Thai-Tanic, Swazi Safari, Fumar Con Dios, and Sagarmatha's gardeners choice.
â?¢Type of light? 125W CFL for seedlings. 400W Plantmax MH placed about 8-10" up. Stays on 24 hours a day!
�"Atmosphere" Conditions Temps run 65-75, Humidity a little low staying around 35-50%. I turn on a fan 3 times a day for about 30 minutes. Reservoir water feels too cold to the touch, on 2/10 I added a submersible heater to maintain 72°F.
â?¢Waterings: 25 gallon reservoir at ph 5.5-6.0 floods the tray for 15 minutes twice a day to start. After the 2nd week, increased to 3 times daily.
â?¢PH Range 5.5-6.0
â?¢Nutrients/Supplements New Earth Custom Grow and Body Builder (Silicone supplement) - both at 1/2 strength. Liquid Karma 1 tsp/gal. 25 drops Superthrive. I have some Cal-Mag+ to add during week 2+, and some Sweet I'm saving for flowering.
â?¢Musical Motivation: Bob Dylan, Canned Heat, John Prine, Willie Nelson & some Snoop!

I'll start the first pic with a terrible pic of some lovely seeds. These were the Sagarmatha Gardener's Choice from Dr. C.. These would give me the worst problems with germination. I really think they were old seeds, after my 2nd batch to be germinated later were much easier. I started 1 of the bigger seeds on 1/10 and another on 1/14.

[Mr. Champ]

I am keeping track of my days from the point they are dropped into wet paper towels. I know this is not standard, but it is the beginning of life in my eye.

The first pic is Day 9. I started a few tomato plants to share the garden, learn a little bit, and have something to satisfy the munchies. This seedling is one of the Sagarmatha's which I have called the Mute. You will see why soon.

The second pic is the Mute on Day 12.

[Mr. Champ]

Turbo Time! The first 2 pics shows the transplant of the Mute and tomatoes to the Turbogarden. In the res is 25 gallons RO water, 2 tsp/gal Custom Grow (7-9-5), 1/2 tsp/gal Body Builder (0-0-3 silicone), and 25 drops Superthrive.

The second pic is the 2nd Sagarmatha 11 days old, and of course a new pic of the Mute at Day 15.

[Mr. Champ]

Power Outage! Vicious ice storms hit us hard, and killed all power from 7pm on Jan. 27 till 7pm Feb. 1. The first day was complete darkness for my girls. Day 2-4 of no power I was able to run a generator for about 14 hours per day. On the morning of Day 5, I transferred all the plants to a small area where they could stay warm and have 24 hours under the big 125W CFL. Day 6 I took a few pics before the power came back on. They would make it back to the big lights on the next day.

This first pic shows the mighty Mute 22 days old. The next pic shows the lovely Sativa Divas (3 on right, 9 days old), Mandala Satoris (2 in middle, 9 days old), and the second Sagarmatha (1 on right, 18 days old). And of course, a new Habanero pepper plant in the back.

[Mr. Champ]

Back to the turbogarden. All of the seedlings were showing massive roots out of the rockwool, so I was able to transplant them all to the TurboGarden!

The first pic if the beautiful garden. The second is the Mute at 24 days old. The third is the Sagarmatha at 20 days, and the last shows a nice Sativa Diva at 11 days. This will be the grand total for my first grow: 2 Sagarmatha's, 3 Sativa Diva's, 2 Mandala Satori's, 2 tomatoes and 1 pepper.

[Mr. Champ]

I had to go out of town for about a week, so was not able to flush the system until today. It looked like some of the girls were suffering from either nute overdose or Mg deficiency. I flushed 1 oz/gal of Clearex thru each of the plants, and replaced the reservoir with 1.5 tsp/gal of the grow, 1/2 tsp/gal body builder, 25 drops superthrive, 1 tsp/gal Liquid Karma, and 1 tsp/gal CalMag+. I also added an aquarium heater to keep the water at 72°F (it was about 65° before), and a bubbler to keep the water mixed up and oxygenated. They seem to be improving well with the new growth coming out.

The first 2 pics show the Mute on day 30. I tried to get a close up so you could see how strange she is growing. Right past the cotyledons (which are still present and green), a new much larger stalk started growing out of the side. Strongest plant in the garden and I am praying she is the right sex. Can anyone tell any early signs of sex based on these pics?

The next pic is the Sagarmatha who was showing signs of nute problems, yellow and crusty tips. The 4th and 5th pic are of one of the Satori's and the worst Sativa Diva at day 17. They look much better today after the flush.

[Mr. Champ]

New growth is much better. I have a few leaves that are curling upwards on the edges... any ideas?

I want to take the whole garden to 12/12 flowering at the same time. Any suggestions on how big the smallest plant should be before doing this? I know I need to weed out the males, so they will have to be big enough to sex. Otherwise, any other tips for creating the best harvest?

Thanks for looking!

[Dutch Pimp]

New growth is much better. I have a few leaves that are curling upwards on the edges... any ideas?

That 400 watt MH is too close in my opinion. The UV rays from MH are very strong.

(if you put your bare hand under that light for 5 minutes...you will feel their pain)

[Mr. Champ]

Thanks.. So if I am reading that chart right.. 11.5 inches is perfect for these girls? Should I set that from the tallest plant (who isn't showing any problems)? And is that distance from the bulb or distance from the glass on the reflector? Sorry that seems obvious but I have to ask.

[Weedhound]

For month old plants in hydro......they're rather small. I'm not familiar with Turbogarden but I will look it up and see whats its about.

My first thought is that your dry hydroton should not be dry. It's usually a medium that is kept wet 24/7 because of it's light, airy, coco puff type texture. So my first guess would be that they need more waterings. I also wonder about ph (I ALWAYS wonder about ph)....is it changing from watering to watering? Does it start at one ph and then when drained back the ph has changed? Any of those things would hint to me of part of what might be going on.

What are your ppms? Have you been calibrating your meters and checking them? If not I would do so immediately to make sure you are getting accurate readings.

I also realize that you were gone, and had some power outages so that will play a role. I still think your kids are pretty small however......more specs (like day to day what the ppms and ph do) would be really helpful in discovering if you can grow these kids bigger and quicker.

[Weedhound]

And are you venting or cooling your light source at all? That will make a difference as to how close you can lower your light. I use a 400wmh these days.....in hood but not air cooled and I'd say a foot is good. Like Dutch I would consider 8-10 inches too close......i'll go measure mine right now. Brb

[Weedhound]

Ok, right now I have some 1 month old plants under 400w (hooded/no ventilation) and the light is about 15 inches away. I'd even revise what I said in my last post after measuring....I would go no closer with a 400w than about 13 inches and that would be pushing it.

[Mr. Champ]

Thanks for the tips. I raised my light to about 11 inches and they are doing better with the curling leaves. Seem much happier. The reflector I have has glass but is not air cooled. I purchased everything to set that up but haven't gotten to it. I keep a thermometer at the level of the plants and it stays about 77-78°F.

I am confused about the watering schedule for these flood/drain systems. I was told not to water more than 2-3 times per day for 20 minutes total flood and drain time. The plants are in small rockwool cubes within the hydroton, and the flood level reaches these cubes. I increased the schedule today to 4 times per day to see what happens. Raising the water temp to 72-73°F seems to be an improvement.

I do not have a meter yet for ph or ppm but am in the market for one. I take ph readings with the drop test and it stays consistent at 5.5-6.0 for sure. I lowered the nute strength significantly but I have no way to know the ppm. I have a densimeter, I wonder if that would tell me anything?

Thanks again, Ill update the pics soon

[Weedhound]

I'm sorry I'm not sure what that is. Drops are fine for ph as long as you stay on top of it.....knowing the color you want etc..and it seems to remain consistent in your readings. Updated pics wosuld help......you say a thermometer at the level the plants is reading 77 degrees? Looking at my own 400wmh I think my plants would melt at that so something is not making sense.....upturned edges are usually a sign of heat stress as well as Dutch first mentioned. I'm going to go measure my leaf temps right now. And yes, there is tempered glass as I have vented the 400w through the hood before....brb......

[Weedhound]

ok leaf temps are measuring out at 75 degrees with the light 15 inches away. I DO, however, have reflective white around my plants so that may raise temp a bit I suppose.

Obviously the more information you have the more you can do with it. Without meters etc you are simply guessing at best and that's not a very good way to do hydro. Part of the fun of hydro is manipulating everything. :D

[Mr. Champ]

Yah that is the only variable i am unsure of. I need a good meter but spent so much on the set up I have nothing left over for the tools.... Ill be putting a ph/ppm meter on the credit card soon.

thanks for all the tips.. the girls look much better and i will update the pics tomorrow.

[Mr. Champ]

Updates pics. The only way to make the hydroton appear wet on top would be to flood to the top. I flood the table about half way up the pots, and there are quite a few roots growing out of the bottom.

The tomato plants are getting huge and the pepper is growing up. Will this be a problem besides possibly blocking any light? Even better, can I pollinate the flower on the tomato with a male cannabis plant? LOL!

-Cheers-

[Mr. Champ]

Quick question for anyone with a scientific mind. I have a densimeter that measures the amount of particles in solution in Millions/mL. Does anyone know if this would be able to measure nutrients the same as a ppm meter does? Is this the same principle?

Thanks

[headshake]

Quick question for anyone with a scientific mind. I have a densimeter that measures the amount of particles in solution in Millions/mL. Does anyone know if this would be able to measure nutrients the same as a ppm meter does? Is this the same principle?

Thanks

do you have a model number and make of the densimeter?

-shake

[Weedhound]

Your plants DONT look bad.. but they don't really look that happy either. Again, information is power and that's the best way to do hydro (its actually the only way I know how to do hydro) so while many people seem to do ok without the meters etc I'm not even sure how to approach it.....I've always lived and died my all my little measuring toys. :D

[Weedhound]

And I'd honestly raise your light a few more inches for a day or so and see if it helps. I have a feeling it might.

[Mr. Champ]

do you have a model number and make of the densimeter?


All I know is it is a Quick Check 4 beam ratiometric nephelometric turbidity concentration counter. It counts the concentration of particles in solution in M/mL. I don't really know much more about, I recently purchased the unit and have just started using it.


Raising the lights was the trick! I have always been so concerned with keeping the lights as close as possible to maximize growth and minimize stretching. I really did not feel much heat holding my hand under the light for a few minutes, and the min/max thermometer had a range of 75-79°F. Either way, once I raised the lights to an average of 15" from the smaller plants, they all took off in growth and seem much happier. Thanks for the tips!

-Cheers-
Champ

[Mr. Champ]

Updated pics of the garden. Everybody is doing better, thanks for all the help. The biggest girl is about 12"x12". At what point could I take some clones from her? Can anyone tell any early indicators of sex based on the close-up? Finally, when should I wait to switch them all over to 12/12? The largest is 12" tall and the others are about 7-8" (which are mostly of sativa influence).

Thanks for the help!

-Cheers-

[Weedhound]

I dont see any preflowers on either close up. How old are the plants again?

[Mr. Champ]

The oldest girl was a seed on 1/10 (started germination), taproot showing and transplanted to rockwool on 1/13, and to the turbogarden 1/25.

The other plants were germinated on 1/23, to rockwool 1/24, and in the turbogarden on 2/2.

I wanted to try to prune the bigger one tomorrow, and possibly take some clones at the same time if you felt it was big enough.

Thanks!

[michaelpeg]

really like how you describe exactly what goes into your water. its great in case i want to copy someone when i ditch the dirt as i dont know a single thing about hydro

[Weedhound]

How many clones were you thinking of taking? You could get a couple but it would really chew into that particular plant. Do you want to sacrifice the plant to get the clones? Otherwise you could most likely grab one or two decent sized clones without stressing the plant out too much.

Which are you more interested in?

[Mr. Champ]

I took 3 clones off of her 2 days ago. At the same time, I trimmed all of the bottom leaves that were curled or burnt on the edges and completely blocked from light by the taller leaves. I also practiced the FIM technique on one of the satori's. Everything was a success! The plants have taken off in growth since the trim. The clones appear happy and show new growth even before roots have shown up. I don't have any new stalks from the FIM yet but the area looks good.

I got my pH meter in today. I have been guessing the pH to be arouns 5.5-6.0 based on the pH solution color test. The meter read 6.4. I added a few teaspoons of pH down to the res.

I will try and take some pics tomorrow. I made my final veg flush on Wednesday and plan on switching them to 12/12 on the 1st of March. Hopefully I will have some indication of sex by then.

For my last flush I refilled with the following (25 gallons H2O):
New Earth Custom Grow (1.5 tsp/gal)
New Earth Body Builder (.5 tsp/gal)
SuperThrive - 30 drops
Liquid Karma (1.5 tsp/gal)
CalMag+ (1.5 tsp/gal)

Thanks again for all the help! My biggest improvements came when I raised the light, added an aquarium bubbler and submersible heater, and added the CalMag+. Giving the plants a minor trim of the damaged leaves seemed to help a little bit too.

-Cheers-

[Mr. Champ]

Updates... Overall grow in the first pic, with the famous mute in the bottom right corner. I was hoping someone could give me good news on the close ups cuz I can't tell much. Looks too early still. Also, a pic of the little clones. I am surprised how much new growth has already shown up. Finally, my FIM from yesterday. Not much has changed, but there are a few bulges that you cant see in the pic.

Thanks for looking!

[Weedhound]

Looks good :thumbsup:

[Mr. Champ]

Alright. I'm getting anxious about the switch and want to make sure I am well prepared. I plan on switching to 12/12 on March 1st, exactly 7 weeks since the first seed was planted (the mute), giving me an expected harvest date of April 20th, 7 weeks into flowering. :stoned:

Right now, I am flooding my system every 6 hours with the lights on non-stop. How do I adjust the watering schedule for light/dark periods? The nutes I have for flowering are:

New Earth Custom Bloom 3-12-6
New Earth Bloom Builder 2-15-4
New Earth Body Builder 0-0-3 (Silicone)
SuperThrive
Liquid Karma
CalMag+
Sweet

I will have my TDS meter by then so I can add exact ratios that I need. Is there anything I am missing? Do I still run the fan in the light hours? dark hours? Thanks to all!

-Cheers-

[Mr. Champ]

One more thing...

I want to flush the plants with Clearex for ~5 days before harvest. At what point in flowering and trichome development do I start the flush? Any other tips to draw the nutrients out and make the best tasting bud?

[Mr. Champ]

I finally got my TDS meter. With the amount of nute's listed on this thread, the res has been running ~750 PPM at the most.

I will be switching to 12/12 tomorrow! The nutes will be changed to Custom Bloom and Bloom Booster from New Earth, Cal Mag+, Liquid Karma, SuperThrive and Sweet. Any suggestions on PPM? I will use the same ratio as before, but will decrease the LK to make room for the Sweet.

Here are the pics. I had to move the tomatoes to a bubbler to make room for the herbs. All of the plants are 12-18" tall, and unfortunately have not produced noticeable pre-flowers at this time. I will be checking them daily for sex. The first 2 pics shows the overall grow. The next shows close ups of the FIM and the almighty Mute. I have 3 clones from the mute that are full of roots, and plan on taking more from the others once I know the sex.

Thanks for looking!

[Weedhound]

Mr champ, what medium are you using for your grow? Things look good to me but I'm honestly not really familiar with your nutes so hesitate to suggest ppms......they can really vary depending on the line you are using.

[Mr. Champ]

Not sure what you mean by medium. They were started in grodan rockwool, which was placed in hydroton. The res holds 25 gallons.

The main nute's come from New Earth (Custom Grow, Custom Bloom, Body Builder, and Bloom Builder (http://newearth.com/merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=NEIG&Category_Code=NENUTS)). You are familiar with the other additives cuz I took em from your nute schedule! :thumbsup:

Once I start flowering, I will quit using the Custom Grow and add in the Custom Bloom and Bloom Builder.

[Weedhound]

the site appears to have lots of very good info....sign of good research on your part. Hope you get it all dialed in

Good luck.

[Divestoned]

PPM = particle's per million.

Dive:stoned:

[Mr. Champ]

March 1st marks the first day of 12/12. I flushed all the girls with Clearex (1 T/gal) and re-filled the res with:

New Earth Custom Bloom 3-12-6 (6 oz)
New Earth Bloom Builder 2-15-4 (2 oz)
New Earth Body Builder 0-0-3 (Silicone) (2 oz)
Liquid Karma (4 oz)
CalMag+ (4 oz)

The ppm was about the same as with the veg nutes, 732-756. I plan on increasing the LK and adding Sweet as the plants get adjusted. It seems that there was some stress during the change of lights and nutes. Also have a little bit of yellow tips that were not there yesterday I am assuming is related to less N. I also sprayed the garden with Spray-N-Grow once the lights were off. The watering schedule was changed to 3 times during light and twice during darkness.

Theres a pic of my tomato garden also, which I transplanted to the bubbler last week. Munchies!

Thanks for looking and critique'n!

-Cheers-
Champ

[Mr. Champ]

March 7th, 7 days into flowering...

Everything is going well, although the flowering seems a little behind. These did not pre-flower, I had to switch them over to save some room, as they are mostly sativa strains.

Just checking if the local guru's can see any signs of sex.

Thanks for looking!

[Weedhound]

You sure this is your first grow?

[Mr. Champ]

You sure this is your first grow?

LOL! I appreciate the compliment. This is truly my first time to see the green herb growing in person. Usually, by the time I get it it is all dried up and packed in a bowl somewhere.

I will be compiling all of the info I have learned here into one document, for an easy read. There have been a few bumps on the road, but overall I think the girls have grown well. The entire process has been put together with the tips learned here, the WH nute schedule, and the Cannabis Grow Bible.

I've got 5 clones so far (100% rooted, thanks Clonex), planning on taking some more once I know the sex. The next grow will be 100% organic hydro.

Thanks for all the, help.. keep it coming!

[headshake]

looking good champ! it gives me hope for my homemade hydro system that will be coming soon! very nice work my friend!

-shake

[Mr. Champ]

Many thanks! Ill post some new pics soon. I am on day 17 of flowering, just did my first flush after starting 12/12. I am almost certain my last 2 Satori's are showing female now, which brings me to 5 females/2 males, not bad for the first time. I have 7 clones which are all rooting like crazy! I'm gonna take another 6 from the Satori's, and Ill need a bigger garden. :D

-Cheers-

[Mr. Champ]

Update.. Day 21 of flowering. These Sativa dominant girls seem much slower but they are coming along nicely! I pulled off 5 girls out of 7 seeds! All 3 from the Flying Dutchman and the 2 Satori's are confirmed female! Took a few quick shots showing the overall grow and a few close ups. The overall is tough because the tallest sativa is about 2 feet taller than the smallest Satori. I am training her to the side and it seems to be working well. Thanks for checking in!
-Cheers-

[headshake]

very nice champ! looking amazing. i can't wait to see what the final product looks like. i also cannot wait til i get a chance to dabble in hydro!

-shake

[Mr. Champ]

A few new flower pics, the grow (what will fit in the pic), and the clone garden (which I am proud to say I have 17/17 nicely rooted clones, the first 17 I have ever attempted).

Thanks again for all the help, I can't wait for harvest time!

-Cheers-

[headshake]

looking damn good champ! the first clones i ever attempted cooked because my temp in the then new clone/mother box shot up to 104F the first night i build it!

-shake

[MendelMaster]

Hey Champ do you have an update? Is everything okay?