Fed Up With Hydro, Switching to Soil

[dejayou30]

I've been growing in a couple different hydro methods over the past year and a half (DWC and E&F) and my yields have not been anywhere even remotely close to what they should be under my 1KW HPS. My last harvest was the most dismal, a mere 15.7 g from TWO plants that were decent sized, but they had lost damn near all of their main fan leaves by the 4th week of flower as the majority of the plants I have grown have, save for a couple beauties I managed to pull out. My largest harvest so far has been about 80g from 4 plants, which isn't too bad and kept me smoking free for a few months, but I feel like I should be getting a lot more with the .5g/watt minimum averages I see posted around here.

I am pretty sure the failure is linked to my roots because they are always rotting and turning black and nasty, despite a 19W industrial pump per two 5 gallon buckets with a huge air stone and 63 degree water temps. I don't overfeed, I use Hygrozyme, and don't try to get fancy with a lot of additives. I use tap water, PureBlend Pro nutes, Liquid Karma, and Hygrozyme and that's it, but the roots never stay right and always end up dying. I am just at a loss as to what I am doing wrong, so I think its time to switch to soil as nature intended.

My question is, what kind of supplies do I need and what kind of soil should I use? I have a pH and PPM meter for water but will that be enough or do I need something to read the soil of the pH? And what are the best pots to use?

Any help would be appreciated!

[GoldenGraham84]

sorry to hear about the bad root luck deja. lost another one to ditech!

[VapedG13]

I dont care what anybody says.....dirt is easier than hydro:D

As far as which dirt to use...try sunshine professional mix #4 Sun Gro Horticulture | Products | | Sunshine® Natural & Organic Mix #4 (http://www.sungro.com/products_displayProProduct.php?product_id=139&brand_id=3)

And fertilizers try the greenleaves brand ....grow juice for veg....bloom juice for bud....boost juice adds vitiamn b Hydroponics, Indoor Gardening Supplies, Hydroponic Systems - home (http://www.ecogrow.com/index.cfm/product/19/mid/10/nid/42/home.html)

Reason for my suggestions.....the soil I have used for years and is rated # 1 amoung growers.

The fertilizer is the only 1 that will tell you your waters ph by changing the color of the water. Greenleaves is pH buffered to correct most pH problems and has a unique visual color indicator for instant pH assessment.


Bloom Juice contains a color coded pH monitor which yields acidic pH (6.0-6.5) when mixed with distilled or tap water. The applicable color scale and corresponding pH are as follows: yellow: PH 6.0-6.7; orange: PH 6.8-7.8; purple: greater than 7.8

I use 12 inch potters and get 6-8 oz per plant under 1000 watters

http://boards.cannabis.com/attachments/indoor-growing/212982d1234212031-fed-up-hydro-switching-soil-001.jpg

[Farmer Rich]

Too bad on the hydro.. :(

Me, I use a soil less mix called pro earth and NSR Greenleaves Juice (grow/bloom/boost), Advanced Nutrients Carb Load and Cal-Max. Run my ph around 6.3.. Veg using about a 1000 ppm base (water it down for younger plants), Flower a mix of Bloom Juice and Cal-Max for around 1200-1400 ppm. Last go around I got a solid 12.5 oz from 5 plants, Kush. Plus a shitload of trim and lower buds for hash.. :D I'm also under 1K HPS lights.. so very similar in that respect.

Currently trying a Black Domina, White Diesel and a couple of Silver Haze.. plus more Kush... With the exception of the Haze, it's looking like the others are going to produce at least similar to the Kush. The Haze is just smaller.. I do have one Haze that's bush like.. wouldn't recommend it, takes up way too much space.

Here's a couple of pics..

Good luck!

Famer Rich

[veggii]

deyja, i going to recomend sticking with the hydro another yr for you unless you gots $$$ too burn!! you have most of what you need already bought, if you put some time in and study "weedhounds" posts&logs you can solve this root problem ! WH averges 1lb a plant, i would say you should get atleast 1/2 lb a plant until you perfect your system, you might want to go with one nute line to simply getting your system functioning better the canna line is becoming a preferred line by growers ! making a soft water and hard water version for hydro,GH genaral hydro also is popular, it also sounds as if your air stones aren't doing the job of getting enough air to roots "shaggytodope" posted his growlog here on canncom and it is something special averaging 4lbs a plant !! he had struggled with the airstones until he found a good one !! check out his log .... good luck ;)

[Farmer Rich]

"WH averges 1lb a plant, i would say you should get atleast 1/2 lb a plant until you perfect your system"

hmmm.... pretty good argument.

[MaryJaneMonkey]

The LK is screwing you up. Im kind of in the same boat as you. I noticed that the plants that received LK and Hygrozyme got discolored roots, it seemed as if the particles got the roots to stick together, instead of the fishbone look they all got together, slimed and died.
I tried 10 gal buckets, foil taped, black taped etc.
Best lesson learned: Use 5 gal buckets with the large net pots and the following nutes: GH micro, bloom PERIOD.
Ph down and tap water.
I just cant justify switching to dirt, im on the second story of a condo, its easier to haul water from the faucet 5 feet away :)

Either way good luck friend, but I would give hydro one last shot. I just love to see root porn :)
Cheers

[cannakeeper]

deyja, i going to recomend sticking with the hydro another yr for you unless you gots $$$ too burn!! you have most of what you need already bought, if you put some time in and study "weedhounds" posts&logs you can solve this root problem ! WH averges 1lb a plant, i would say you should get atleast 1/2 lb a plant until you perfect your system, you might want to go with one nute line to simply getting your system functioning better the canna line is becoming a preferred line by growers ! making a soft water and hard water version for hydro,GH genaral hydro also is popular, it also sounds as if your air stones aren't doing the job of getting enough air to roots "shaggytodope" posted his growlog here on canncom and it is something special averaging 4lbs a plant !! he had struggled with the airstones until he found a good one !! check out his log .... good luck ;) WERD! That would b my advice as well, I took my process straight from Latewoods sticky post and it has gone pretty smoove.

[dejayou30]

Thanks for all the advice. I've actually gone back and forth with Weedhound in several threads trying to fix the problems I've had over the past year and a half and neither of us could come up with any kind of root cause for the array of issues. I really don't *want* to switch to soil, but I feel like after 1.5 years of substandard yields, I am ready to try something different and I think soil would be more forgiving. Its also getting too warm outside for my water so I need to figure something out. I know my airstones are adequate and they pump tons of air in to the water. If anything, I have too much air, but I don't know if that's even possible.

I really want to give it another try with hydro because I think it will be easier to manage overall, but I just don't want to waste another 8 weeks and only get a half oz of bud on haphazard plants and feel like soil will be easy to convert to. I think I'm gonna think on it a little bit more but all this advice has certainly helped, so thanks. :thumbsup:

[charizma]

"I use tap water"

try r/o water on just one grow. see the difference. who knows whats in your city water to kill anything that is alive in it.

[dejayou30]

I don't think anything in the water is harmful. Its not like they are going to put anything in the water that would kill a plant but remain safe for me and my dogs. My water is about 300 PPM from the tap, but I can't justify spending $15 a week just on water and $25 every two on CalMag+, not to mention hauling all that water twice a week. Is it not possible to grow chronic buds without R/O water, or is this just a suggestion? Because I really don't wanna get R/O water. :jointsmile:

[Farmer Rich]

Hey Dejayou,

I was in a similar water hauling situation and using 2 1/2 gallon (about 10 liters) cat litter containers. This got old very quickly. What I ended up doing was getting 4 x 20 gallon containers (2 for each room) that I fill once per week (actual volume depends on how much liquid I think I'll use.. hate to waste nutes!). In regard to the suggestion to use R/O water, cool if you have it. Me, I fill my cans and let them sit uncovered for 24-48 hours to: 1, let any chlorine evaporate (turns to gas), and let he Ph stabilize before I add nutes or adjust. My water comes out of the tap around 125 ppm.

Peace, Farmer Rich

[Farmer Rich]

In regard to dumping Hydro.. you'll use a lot less nutrients in soil less mix.. As far as CalMag, I use Cal-Max from Growtech... about $10 for 1/2 liter. I only use about 3/4 tsp per gallon making this go a long way..

[veggii]

have you filled out one of the troublesooting forms in the plant problems section? I looked and I could'nt find one that you had posted, maybe you might think about changing the nutes you use? what are you using ? plz start a new thread in plant&problems and fill out a troubleshooting form

Plant Problems - Cannabis Forums Message Boards - Medical Marijuana, Cannabis Club, Dispensary, News (http://boards.cannabis.com/plant-problems/)



check this out;
http://boards.cannabis.com/indoor-growing/134299-giant-bubblers.html

4.5 lbs with a hydro setup

:D:D:D:D

[Farmer Rich]

Hey Veggie,

I know hydro is about always more on yield. But holy shit, in the Giant Bubble link, he had 5600 watts of light!! No wonder he got such a huge yield. ;)

Dejayou, definitely follow Veggie's advice on the troubleshooting form, this will help you possibly figure out where you tripped up.

Peace, Farmer Rich

[chongman420]

Hey Farmer Rich, you still growing in that badass cabinet you built? I remember that thread, its where I got ideas for mine. :thumbsup:

[Farmer Rich]

Hey Chongman,

Nice to see you're still around.

Nah, not using the cabinet anymore.. storage now, redeployed the innards though.. :D

Have separate veg and flower rooms now. Veg has the 600 MH from the cabinet in a 4' vertizontal reflector. Added 2 x 4' T-5 fixtures, 1 4 tube, the other 8. In flower, I have 2 x 1000 W HPS in 4' sun soaker reflectors. Each room has it's own carbon filtered exhaust system with a 15K btu AC unit in the flower room. A few pics below as I'm not into logs much anymore. I'm running it where I can kick out a harvest a month. Currently growing mostly Kush and transitioning to Silver Haze, Black Domina and White Diesel. Also have some beans I picked up at Sensi in the Dam this summer that I'll start messin' with a couple of runs down the road.

Now, how does all of this relate to our buddy Dejayou who actually owns this thread??

Basically everything you have can be redeployed if you go to soil... matter of fact, my local hydro buddy is switching too.. never thought I'd see the day! Also, as far as yield, recalced it and in total bud weight I'm getting close to .5g per watt.. And IMHO, soil is much more forgiving when you screw up.

Peace all, good growin!

Farmer Rich

[genuine]

Are the hydro resevoirs directly on concrete? I had issues with cold concrete, chilling solution down even though room ambient temps were fine.

Just a thought..

crey gym interlocking matts, stacked three high, insulating between concrete.

[genuine]

BTW:


I've got hydro going AND I've got soil going....


I think the hydro is cheaper and easier to get propper pH and stuff. But I've not had enough harvest cycles to get good data of comparative results. And as yet it would be diffiiclut as hydro I'm keeping smaller and soil into larger plants....