Questions on cloning and yeild

[brickbreaker]

Hello all,

I am going into my second year playing with this now and just have a couple of questions.

First off I am working with seeds that came from I guess a bag seed mix, inexpensive and the strains not known. I have two lights, one is a 150W HPS and the other a 400W mH. I currently use the HPS for veg only as there is usually one one girl in there at a time, maybe two at the most. Then they go to the mH for flowering.

The yields that I am getting from these just seems unusually low, like maybe 1oz per plant at best. I usually give them a weak 20-20-20 during the veg period, then a weak bloom builder in flowering. The reason for the weakness in solution I find is because they are always showing signs of nute burn... So I typically just use clean water on them.

Just wasn't sure how much of this was due to the unknown strain, and at that price (100 seeds for $25) I'm not too sure about the strain quality. Like there must be a strong relation to the strain verses the yield. I know there are other elements too, but that one stood out in my mind.

I have been cloning one of them as its of a great quality and smokes very smooth. I have had minimal success with this. The first few times I always just used a very light soil mixture for seedlings, put them in the dark with a humidity dome over them for about a week. Then under floros for a bit until I see some new growth. I have one right now that I took out of the soil because it looked like it was dying and the leaves turning bright yellow. I have since put it into a 50/50 mix of vermiculite and perlite. The leaves are still drying up, but the yellow is almost gone. This has been almost 2 weeks and they haven't really shown too much new new growth. When I transplanted them I did see root growth at the base. Maybe just in shock for a bit?? I just use straight water on them too.

Places to purchase rockwool around my location are pretty closely watched so its not easy to get really. But I heard my above 50/50 mix works as well.

I think I know the answer to this, but I have one of these girls that I like flowering almost a month along, I believe its too late to be cloning her now right? One has already come down and I have put back into veg to see what will happen. Just taking its time....


Any feedback would be appreciated, I just want to have confidence that I can clone and work with good material. Also should I consider getting a higher quality seed in order to up my yield? They do grow kind of tall and lanky usually. Certainly not like the Avatar pictures shown here !!


Thanks again !:thumbsup:

[GoldenGraham84]

not sure if it was a typo, but you have your lighting regimen backwards. metal halide has a higher kelvin rating, therefore its better for veg. high pressure sodium is the opposite, with a lower kelvin rating, and is best for flower.

as for your cloning, maybe do a search on here for DIY bubble cloner. cost me about $20 to get one built, and it works like a charm!

and for cloning that one thats a month into flower, it is possible. its not super likely to succeed, but it can be done. i've cloned from a plant 45 days on flower successfully.

at the end, i see you mentioned that your plants grow "tall and lanky." this is precisely what can happen when incorrect light spectrums are used at inappropriate times. HPS light during veg causes stretching (tall) and MH light during flower causes loose, fluffy buds (lanky).

hope i've helped!
best of luck and stay safe!
-GG84

[brickbreaker]

Thank you so much for your reply !

The main reason that I had them under the mH for flowering is because it had higher wattage. My HPS is only 150W. A lot of other people said that the wattage=yield... so i figured that during the flowering it would like that more... So when they are smaller in veg the smaller light would work better. That was my thought.

[GoldenGraham84]

yes, you're correct. the plants under the MH are getting more light, but they can't use the light's spectrum. if i were you, i'd maybe research a 400W HPS conversion bulb. it'll work in your MH fixture, and you'll have the best of both worlds. not sure if they make 150W MH conversion bulbs...

[brickbreaker]

Thanks again,

With the bubbler, do the cuttings go directly into the water, with the root hormone on it? Some people are saying the the bubbler has to be on 5 mins, then off. I don't have a timer like this, does it matter if it stays on?

[GoldenGraham84]

i have my bubbler running 24/7. i try to keep the base of the cuttings about 1-2" from the water. the bubbles create a mist that keeps them moist. i used the (powder) rooting hormone at first, but it just gets washed away. ph correct (5.8) water and a little hydrogen peroxide is all i use.

[Lit Up]

HO-LY SHIT!! Look who decided to grace us with their good presence. Wats new GG.

[brickbreaker]

And no humidity dome needed over the tops of them?

[Farmer Rich]

When you say "bubbler" I assume you mean an aeroponic mister such as a Clone Bucket? If so, here's what I know.

1. run it 24/7
2. low light at 18/6 (I use 1 bulb in a t-5 panel over mine)
3. Try to keep the water in the "bubbler" about 75 deg. (seedling mat works great, attach the temp sensor to the outside of the bubbler reservoir)
4. Use flowering nutes in the water.. very light strength, I like 400 ppm.
5. Leave your cuttings in rooting compound for about 20-30 sec before putting the cut in the bubbler.
6. Let it do it's thing... about 2 weeks and you should have a good root structure started.
7. Be patient.

Peace,

Farmer Rich

[animalman]

its no wonder you plants are burning if you already have them on 20-20-20 fert. theres no need for such a strong fert, most growers have the best luck with a multi fert grow, veg nutes, bloom nutes. i like the 3 part fox farm line works great.

[brickbreaker]

NO, they aren't on that fert 20-20-20 right now...

Thats what I did when they were growing in veg stage. The leaves are burning a little right now as clones.. Just the stems are still green, but no real new growth as of yet. Its going on 2 weeks, there are roots sticking out the bottom, they just aren't really taking yet or producing any new growth on top...

[animalman]

whats the npk ratio your using now? and you dont need anything that strong for veg, the plant is still holding a lot of the fert in itself and now whatever your using now adding with whats already in the plant is causing the burn. whats the name of the fret you using both for veg and for bloom? also GoldenGraham84 is right get a 400W HPS conversion bulb it will help with yield and potency, and if you cant find a conversion bulb for your other unit just try to find a hps bulb with more blue in the spectrum.

[brickbreaker]

Right now with the clones that are trying to come to life, I am not using anything. No ferts. I have a blue crystal type one for seedlings that I have used in the past. Can't remember the NPK values just now. At this point I have nothing that is really vegging. Some are under the vegging light cycle, but haven't moved in a while... The clones are under the floros.

[Lit Up]

Once I get roots, then I put them into soil and about a week later I get new growth. So about 3 weeks altogether. I usually put them into flower after 4 weeks depending on how big I want them.

Farmer Rich - By bubbler, he means bubble cloner. Where you run air pumps to airstones and leave the cuttings about an inch or so above the bubbles. The mist they make when they pop keeps the cuttings wet. Same concept but simplier and cheaper to build and maintain.

For nutes, I used fertilome liquid root stimulator, a 4-10-3 mix I believe, adding about 1 tbsp per gallon. I also soaked my cuttings in a stronger fertilome mix for 15-20 min. before putting them in my cloner.

1st attempt i had 12 out of 14 take after failing in soil with about 30 cutting from the same mother.

Hope that helped some.

[Farmer Rich]

Hey Lit Up,

Gotcha on the bubbler.. I'm just using a Clone Bucket for the first time hoping to speed up the rooting process. Using old school method, I generally get 95% + on my cuts rooting. :jointsmile:

Here's some of mine..

Peace,

Farmer Rich