The military occupation of Palestine

[overgrowthegovt]

Really, hasn't it gone on long enough? It's been 60 years, and yet the Palestinian people continue to be treated as second-class citizens in their homeland.

I hate how the media always distorts information in Israel's favour, I hate how the slaughter of Palestinian civilians is marginalized or treated as necessary, I hate how Israel is allowed to be HEAVILY armed while shit hits the fan if any Islamic country in the Middle East even begins to think about weapons, I hate how this tyranny has the world's approval, and I above all hate how any dissenters are labeled as anti-Semetic. Describing a critic of Israel as anti-Semetic is like calling a critic of apartheid 30 years ago a racist against whites.

[Ramulux]

I definitely agree with you about this. I have never understood the rabid support that people have for Israel. Listen, I get that the holocaust was terrible but to just decide to create a Jewish state in the middle east to give these people somewhere to go was an absurd and dangerous idea. Also, with the USA behind them they can basically do whatever they want and like you said; if you ask questions your branded an anti-semite. I really do feel bad for Pakistan and the ridiculous bias most western media has against them

[GoldenBoy812]

Middle Eastern culture was of the grandest on the planet at the turn of the first recorded millennium. Since the Crusades, Islam has had a crushing grip on the emergence of new idea's as well as human rights. The region is currently controlled by an uncompromising ideology; an ideology that draws from a dark corner in an attempt to preserve it.

It is not that there is anything wrong with desiring to preserve your heritage and culture. The problem arises when education is allowed to be converted into a tool in which extreme, illogical, and close ended indoctrination is a demanded product.

Although US interests in the middle east are summarized as a function of economic necessity, a lack of presence/WMD control would be horrible. These are not rational people, and i could honestly see the entire middle east nuking each other into oblivion...

[JakeMartinez]

I am apalled! How can you have such anti-semetic views and speak them publicly!

Come on, after the Holocaust, we owe it to the Jewish people to defend their country for them. We're lucky all the European Jews didn't die...


I'm just kidding. I did that to prove a point, though. The Jews guilt the world (except for the Muslims) into letting them get away with murder.

Personally, I'm sick of it. Especially since Hitler killed anyone who wasn't of Aryan blood, or at least white. You don't hear blacks or homosexuals bitching about it.

[Dutch Pimp]

These are not rational people, and i could honestly see the entire middle east nuking each other into oblivion...

i agree...:thumbsup:

[maladroit]

"The region is currently controlled by an uncompromising ideology; an ideology that draws from a dark corner in an attempt to preserve it...These are not rational people, and i could honestly see the entire middle east nuking each other into oblivion."

- i agree if israel's theocratic government is part of the irrational, uncompromising ideology from a dark corner...i think it was pj o'rourke who said that the best prospect for peace in the middle east is a mass outbreak of atheism

[GoldenBoy812]

i agree if israel's theocratic government is part of the irrational, uncompromising ideology from a dark corner...i think it was pj o'rourke who said that the best prospect for peace in the middle east is a mass outbreak of atheism

You are correct. Zionism is nothing more than a counterweight to Sharia. IMHO, i see no reason why people of Jewish decent desire to live in the middle of the Arab/Persian world.

[Breukelen advocaat]

Although US interests in the middle east are summarized as a function of economic necessity, a lack of presence/WMD control would be horrible. These are not rational people, and i could honestly see the entire middle east nuking each other into oblivion...
I say let them nuke each other. Give Israel a six month timeline to evacuate, a place (such as the Falklands) to relocate, and then we abandon the whole Middle East. We'd have to use oil reserves and other energy sources for a while, but the end result would be worth it.

[GoldenBoy812]

I say let them nuke each other. Give Israel a six month timeline to evacuate, a place (such as the Falklands) to relocate, and then we abandon the whole Middle East. We'd have to use oil reserves and other energy sources for a while, but the end result would be worth it.

While the middle east, mainly opec, has been a thorn in the side of the US, it is not nearly the zero sum game many believe. The ME exports petro dollars for real currency. In doing so, they are able to import US goods and services with the dollars/euros/yen/pounds received via exporting crude.

Being that oil is by far the most utilized commodity, they have plenty of money to purchase US goods and services. The vanquish of these people goes against our self interest. Imagine how hard it would be to live without 58% of the worlds oil production. The costs associated with rebuilding crude production would most likely eclipse money currently spent stabilizing the area.

It could take 50 years to clean up radioactive oil reserves.

Stability > Chaotic change

[RobPA]

I am apalled! How can you have such anti-semetic views and speak them publicly!

Come on, after the Holocaust, we owe it to the Jewish people to defend their country for them. We're lucky all the European Jews didn't die...


I'm just kidding. I did that to prove a point, though. The Jews guilt the world (except for the Muslims) into letting them get away with murder.

Personally, I'm sick of it. Especially since Hitler killed anyone who wasn't of Aryan blood, or at least white. You don't hear blacks or homosexuals bitching about it.


Thats funny that you mention Hitler and Nazi's... Who were the ones who orchestrated a lot of the rebellions done by Radical Islamist's back in the late 40's early 50's ?? Who was breeding dissention in the Muslim/Palestinian Ranks?

[overgrowthegovt]

Middle Eastern culture was of the grandest on the planet at the turn of the first recorded millennium. Since the Crusades, Islam has had a crushing grip on the emergence of new idea's as well as human rights. The region is currently controlled by an uncompromising ideology; an ideology that draws from a dark corner in an attempt to preserve it.

It is not that there is anything wrong with desiring to preserve your heritage and culture. The problem arises when education is allowed to be converted into a tool in which extreme, illogical, and close ended indoctrination is a demanded product.

Although US interests in the middle east are summarized as a function of economic necessity, a lack of presence/WMD control would be horrible. These are not rational people, and i could honestly see the entire middle east nuking each other into oblivion...

And the Christians found in the U.S. are rational people? Everything they do is in their own self-interest, too, they just have more wealth and power to do it in a more organized and more accepted, but no less brutal, way. It is very easy to believe that the Muslims are animals who would eat each other if it weren't for paternalistic Western control, but really, radicalism in its present form exists just because of the West. The West mandated the Middle East in the early 20th century and stole its resources while oppressing its people, they overthrew Iran's elected and popular leader in 1953 (creating the instability which led to the fundamentalist revolution), they have consistently backed a majorly oppressive force in the area (Israel), and they continue to push their economic self-serving agendas on people half a world away. If things were the other way around, I'd bet money that there would be radical Christian bombers. We're perceived as more rational simply because we've had a more cushy way of life and we've been in charge of our own affairs.

The propagandists are highly skilled---so skilled that your average Western is convinced that Israel is a legitimate state that only bends human rights when it has to, and that the West is morally superior. Little do they know of Israeli atrocities or the fact that the West is almost solely to blame for how fucked up things are over there.

[killerweed420]

It would be nice to dream of a future for our kids that religion is completely wiped from the planet so we could maybe have some peace. Unrealistic of course. Religious fanatics will always exist, but it would be nice to atleast convert people to a rational sense of being here on earth.

[GoldenBoy812]

And the Christians found in the U.S. are rational people? Everything they do is in their own self-interest, too, they just have more wealth and power to do it in a more organized and more accepted, but no less brutal, way.

Our nation is not controlled by religious law. The day a woman gets publicly whipped for being raped in the US is the day your statement is correct.


It is very easy to believe that the Muslims are animals who would eat each other if it weren't for paternalistic Western control, but really, radicalism in its present form exists just because of the West. The West mandated the Middle East in the early 20th century and stole its resources while oppressing its people, they overthrew Iran's elected and popular leader in 1953 (creating the instability which led to the fundamentalist revolution), they have consistently backed a majorly oppressive force in the area (Israel), and they continue to push their economic self-serving agendas on people half a world away.

You are correct in this regard, we have interrupted their region. But, that is not an excuse to act like a nut! Take Japan for instance. We completely obliterated a segment of their population, destroyed their country, and implemented our system into theirs. And look how wonderful it worked. The Japanese are not throwing fanatics our way because of the oppression we pushed on their people during the 40's and 50's. They are willing to grow, and are open to new ideas (although they originally were not), as the middle east is the opposite. They are the opposite in every sense! Japan has such a limited supply of natural resources, where middle eastern nations have an abundance of the worlds crude. Yet the Japanese outperform the majority of Arab governments because of their ability and desire to adapt to changes in the world.


If things were the other way around, I'd bet money that there would be radical Christian bombers. We're perceived as more rational simply because we've had a more cushy way of life and we've been in charge of our own affairs.

Most likely, because their system is total stagnation.


The propagandists are highly skilled---so skilled that your average Western is convinced that Israel is a legitimate state that only bends human rights when it has to, and that the West is morally superior. Little do they know of Israeli atrocities or the fact that the West is almost solely to blame for how fucked up things are over there.

Its a tough call. We forced democracy on the Japanese with great success. In doing so, we have actually improved our own interests because they provide the US with a large amount of our demand. Their people are not held back in regards to education, human rights, hatred. Remember, the Sunni's and Shiites have been fighting each other for over a thousand years over who was the rightful heir to Mohammad. That does not seem rational...

[apocolips31]

And the Christians found in the U.S. are rational people? Everything they do is in their own self-interest, too, they just have more wealth and power to do it in a more organized and more accepted, but no less brutal, way. It is very easy to believe that the Muslims are animals who would eat each other if it weren't for paternalistic Western control, but really, radicalism in its present form exists just because of the West. The West mandated the Middle East in the early 20th century and stole its resources while oppressing its people, they overthrew Iran's elected and popular leader in 1953 (creating the instability which led to the fundamentalist revolution), they have consistently backed a majorly oppressive force in the area (Israel), and they continue to push their economic self-serving agendas on people half a world away. If things were the other way around, I'd bet money that there would be radical Christian bombers. We're perceived as more rational simply because we've had a more cushy way of life and we've been in charge of our own affairs.

The propagandists are highly skilled---so skilled that your average Western is convinced that Israel is a legitimate state that only bends human rights when it has to, and that the West is morally superior. Little do they know of Israeli atrocities or the fact that the West is almost solely to blame for how fucked up things are over there.
Yea, like we were the ones to write the koran over 800 years ago and tell them to kill all none believers. I am not saying all the people that are Muslim follow this ,but some of them do. It is those few which taint the religion for the rest.

[maladroit]

if we're blaming books, the guys who wrote the bible (read: the literal word of god) were extremely violent, slaughering entire towns including women, children, and babies for god (but sometime keeping young virgin girls alive for sex slaves)

most christians don't follow that, but some do...would you accept anyone's claim that those few taint all of judaism and christianity for the rest? of course not!

[apocolips31]

Of course not because the religion isn't causing that anymore. How many people still hate Germany? They had a bad rap not too long ago but, look at them today. It is things of the present which most strongly influence our decisions today.Those people in the crusades were blinded by the corrupt catholic church in those days. It is not as if it says in the bible go kill Muslims or other non believers. They were led astray from the true word of God. The Koran on the other hand actually tells them to go kill non believers.

[overgrowthegovt]

Of course not because the religion isn't causing that anymore. How many people still hate Germany? They had a bad rap not too long ago but, look at them today. It is things of the present which most strongly influence our decisions today.Those people in the crusades were blinded by the corrupt catholic church in those days. It is not as if it says in the bible go kill Muslims or other non believers. They were led astray from the true word of God. The Koran on the other hand actually tells them to go kill non believers.

The bible does tell people to kill homosexuals, though (I seem to recall something about a command not to lie with man as you lie with woman, and how he who does shall be taken out and stoned), which sounds pretty immoral to me, and nothing to do with the corrupt church of the time. The bible also condones slavery. And it's funny how many moderate Muslims accuse the radicals of going astray from the true word of Allah. Literal interpretation of the bible would make the U.S. a slave-owning society where sodomy gets the death penalty, but people have learned to pick and choose...as many followers of Islam also are. I think they are so zealous in their religious verve because their way of life has been triviliazed by the West for so long; it's a defense mechanism.

Muslim nations are more oppressive towards women, and their actions towards them are inexcusable. However, while the U.S. and Israel treat women better, they are every bit as brutal as any Muslim could hope to be when it comes to treatment of other nations. That's just not talked about as much.