No thread about Mumbai yet?

[Reefer Rogue]

C'mon people, why do i have to make this, i don't make things...

Anyway, what can i say, it's inexplicable, outrageous, words can't do the familes justice. R.I.P

It seems to me the police and security forces were out gunned and outsmarted, that's unexceptable, this kind of atrocity should never of been allowed to reach such a scale. The Indian 9/11 they're calling it. Asking for British and American passports, but most casualties were Indian.. What else can i do but smoke a bong and take a bit of time to think about those who have lost their lives pointlessly.

Justice must be served, but will it? Too much bloodshed for nothing. I guarentee religious extremists are to blame, they want to divide people, segregate people. Well, people of all races and faiths must unite to divide those who attempt to destroy the values of freedom and democracy and secularism.

[psychocat]

India and Pakistan simmer over Mumbai attacks | Reuters (http://uk.reuters.com/article/UKNews1/idUKTRE4AP74420081129)

Latest reports are putting the death toll at 195, it's one hell of a situation.

[DaBudhaStank]

From what I heard, some of the gunmen were SMILING as they walked down the hallways, kicking down doors and opening fire. I agree 100% that Indian security is a fuckin' joke as well as their police force, however; there isn't a whole lot you can do in this situation. When a group of 20 men already know the layout of the building and enter in force, it'd take an equally outfitted group to repel them, so these guys basically had an easy time getting in. It could happen just as easily at your local Mariott, unfortunately. In the end though, somehow the police could only round up ONE person who knew what the inside of the building looked like. Uhhh....what the fuck? If this happened here, it wouldn't take us THREE DAYS to move in and neutralize the threat, we'd have a whole 'nother Waco on our hands before something like that happened. Avoidable? That's hard to say, but the damage could have definitely been minimized. It's also kind of offensive when they call it the Indian 9/11. No, sorry India, it sucks and all but don't even THINK it's close to the bullshit we went through. Nearly 3,000 dead, countless wounded and almost a decade of a shortened leash for all Americans, sorry but it's just not the same India.

[psychocat]

From what I heard, some of the gunmen were SMILING as they walked down the hallways, kicking down doors and opening fire. I agree 100% that Indian security is a fuckin' joke as well as their police force, however; there isn't a whole lot you can do in this situation. When a group of 20 men already know the layout of the building and enter in force, it'd take an equally outfitted group to repel them, so these guys basically had an easy time getting in. It could happen just as easily at your local Mariott, unfortunately. In the end though, somehow the police could only round up ONE person who knew what the inside of the building looked like. Uhhh....what the fuck? If this happened here, it wouldn't take us THREE DAYS to move in and neutralize the threat, we'd have a whole 'nother Waco on our hands before something like that happened. Avoidable? That's hard to say, but the damage could have definitely been minimized. It's also kind of offensive when they call it the Indian 9/11. No, sorry India, it sucks and all but don't even THINK it's close to the bullshit we went through. Nearly 3,000 dead, countless wounded and almost a decade of a shortened leash for all Americans, sorry but it's just not the same India.

I was with you until you got to the highlighted part.

[daihashi]

I was with you until you got to the highlighted part.

Death is death and is horrible regardless of where or how many; but to say that what happened there recently is comparable to 9/11 is far fetched. I don't find the comparison offensive like Dabuddahstank does but I do think it's silly to compare this to the collapse of the World Trade Center caused by 2 passenger airliners crashing into them and the demise of 3000 people.. countless more injured as well as the impact to the Moral/confidence across the nation as well as the economic impact.

I'm sure if I had lost someone in 9/11 I would find it offensive. Sorry that you can't empathize with Dabuddahstank.

[Dream of the iris]

I certainly wouldn't find it offensive to compare it to 9/11 given that both instances involved the deaths of innocent civilians, but it still shouldn't be compared to 9/11. This Mumbi incident will simply be another insignificant event in History 100 years down the road just like the giant battle in Sadre City a couple years ago which I would imagine many people already forgot. It will be remembered in Indian History but on a global scale, the attack on 9/11 will be remembered by all. Everything, and I mean everything changed after 9/11. This Mumbi incident was merely a result of 9/11. You can't just measure the effects of 9/11 based off of the death toll but rather how America, the largest Empire in the World, reacted to it. Because of 9/11 an entire country was basically destroyed and another one was even more damaged than before. Furthermore, our own policies in America was drastically affected such as the patriot act. The entire international community did a complete 180 and you are seeing things which would have never been concievable not but 10 years ago. 9/11 is more comparable to Pearl Harbor because our reaction to it completely changed us both domestically and internationally. Had Pearl Harbor never happened it would have probably taking our government longer to gain popular support to enter the war and fight Germany and if we had waited to go to war then that could have meant our defeat which would have changed history completely. The Mumbi incident will be one out of a collection of events that will inevitably lead up to a more significant event (such as nuclear strike on Pakistan or vis versa) and that event will be comparable to 9/11 because it is that event which will significantly shape our history just as 9/11 did.

Anyway, regardless of which was worse, the bottom line is both events were terrible and should not be tolerated. However, this doesn't mean we need to get hot headed and let our emotions run wild because that will lead to unwise decisions. We cannot afford to attack Pakistan (and i don't mean just us I mean for everyone). We are fighting an assymmetical enemy and with that assymmetrical tactics must be used to combat this. That's our #1 problem with terrorism right now. Most people are thinking 20th century tactics such as attacking another country is the right idea but this is completely outdated and will just lead to more problems (this is what the terrorist want). With more and more countries gaining nuclear technology it is foolish to attack a country head on. This is why we haven't gotten to the point of WWIII and is the reason why we might not ever get to that point because everyone is scared to attack anyone. Combating terrorism is more of an inside job, rather than a job for a military unit just as ridding the United States government. Terrorists are dumb because they are merely leading to the destruction of the World which isn't their incentive. They don't want to destroy the World, at least most don't. Most terrorists merely want the Western dominance to cease but they don't understand that their tactics is merely making a country unstable rather than the root problem unstable. Western Dominance will continue despite this Mumbi incident so really all they ever did was kill a bunch of innocent people and make the top elites that much more powerful because now they can use that as a tool to manipulate us into thinking the World is so dangerous that we need to have more control of you. the more control the government has on its citizens (in this case indirect control) the more stability they gain and the more stability they gain the more power they gain. So in a sense Terrorists are using some 20th century ideologies not taking into consideration that there is no longer such thing as direct control. Direct control makes its own citizens aware of its lack of freedom which angers them. Indirect control is much more effective because now its own citizens won't be angry because they wont even realize they are being controlled or manipulated (happening as we speak). To get rid of any powerful entity in this day in age (either U.S government or Terrorist) it must be an inside job where the entity can't see you. ugg sorry too much coffee. I hope this makes sense because it sounds a little odd for me as well lol.

[boaz]

yes, very very sad day in India, our thoughts our with them. the killers goal seems to be to start a conflict between India and Pakistan, the way the terrorists started shit between the Shia and Sunni in Iraq. Let's hope they are not successful this time.

I wonder if the timing was related to India's election a few weeks ago? I happened to catch the BBC live from a polling spot in Kashmire during their election, which was right after our election here in the U.S. a few weeks back. It looked like they had a better turnout than we did here at my polling station. and just like here, it looked like a few a folks probably didn't come down out of the mountains very often. :jointsmile:

[Dream of the iris]

ahhh crap. Pakistan is taking a pretty aggressive stance to this event. By that I mean they are very fearful about cooperating with India and the U.S in spite of the fact that they too have been combating the Lashka Al-Taiba organization along with Al Qeada. What's really creepy is that a lot of officials in the Pakistani intelligence agency are willing to accept help from the Al Qeada when they proclaimed that if war ever breaks out between the two countries, they would be ready to aid in 1,500 Jihad warriors and 500 suicide bombers. I don't know exactly where this is going but it would seem as if Pakistan and India are planning to go to war soon. Oh and a suicide bomber attacked Pakistan the other day and now the government is beginning to point the finger at India's Hindu terrorists. Not looking good man.