First attempt at a 24-hour "Martian Method"

[Dogznova]

Week 3 flower update TOC #2

Things here are on time, but the flowers are smaller then what we would like.

We need to be running as close to 11.5 HPS (on time) as we can get for bigger flowers, especially in the dirt setup we got going and the type of strain we are using. :thumbsup:

Oh ya.... My uncle also added two orange INC lights to the mix in this area. Just to see if we might be able to get some bulk from the orange light.

[Dogznova]

Update tub o clnoes #1

These girls will be done in two weeks. :thumbsup:

[Dogznova]

Update tube o clones #2

Week 4 of flowering......

The addition of the orange light appears to be making the leaves on the flowers grow out looking like banana leaves. Not sure if this is a good thing for this strain or not. Time will tell.

The flowers as far as size goes are looking to be a week or so behind. I think my uncle should pull a half hour of PAD light (on time) and add a half four of SID. Sal what do you think?

[salmayo]

Update tube o clones #2

Week 4 of flowering......

The addition of the orange light appears to be making the leaves on the flowers grow out looking like banana leaves. Not sure if this is a good thing for this strain or not. Time will tell.

The flowers as far as size goes are looking to be a week or so behind. I think my uncle should pull a half hour of PAD light (on time) and add a half four of SID. Sal what do you think?
Depending on the spectrum of the Orange incandescent light replacing a Red Incandescent light, you may either be getting a bit of Blue light contamination which will proportionately reveg the plants morphology as the Blue level increases, or you may be getting more or a PAD Time Factor increase (decrease in overal equivalency SID time) due to the added non-Far Red light in the Orange lights spectrum (likely to some extent).

Since your system is HPS wattage dominant for yeild, it sounds like you lean more towards swapping SID time for PAD time, as opposed to swapping PAD time for HPS time. So yes, that would be a way to increase your overall SID equivalency time.

Swapping one way or the other depends on what kind of trade you're looking for, such as overall bulk vs. grams per KWH or trichome/THC production. The total SID time experience by the plant determines WHAT genes are executed, but the total PAD, SID and HPS/SAL (Standard Artificial Light) times and wattages determine HOW and HOW MUCH those gene commands get carried out.

With what you are calling "Banana Leaves", it looks like some vegging genes are getting executed and the Orange spectrum does make the plant think the night time is a bit shorter, but Blue signals would be producing veg genetic signals as slight PAL (Day) time contamination during what would otherwise be flowering signal PAD (Night) time.

I'd have to have a Spectral Power Distribution (SPD) graph of that particular Orange Incandescent lamp in order to tell you for sure what is happenning, but an increase in the plants percieved Night hours would a minor adjustment, and I think that some Blue light contamination in those Orange Incandescents is a likely problem.

Since there are no standardized systems for defining "color" or "party" bulb spectrums, it's very hard to recommend lamps by mere color designation rather than their actual spectral outputs and if they have "light leaks" past their filtration coverrings.

The Orange/Yellow bulbs that are clear enough to see the filament in detail, tend to have a slight Blue leak past the filtration coverring, and the effects of this are relative the intensity of the Blue light leakage. A slight Blue light leak has a slight effect, while a more intense Blue light leak has a more intense effect.

The relationship of the primary and secondary signals from a light spectrum, represented in the plants genetic responces, is what Rauber refers to as Genetic Bandwidth (GB) or Gene Time Bandwidth (GTB), and it can be viewed as positive or negative depending on the results, but Rauber prefers to eliminate GB as much as possible to optimized targetted genetic execution, such as Trichome/THC development.

If you have some veg gene signals thrown in with your flowering gene signals it may produce larger leafier buds, which could be considered good if you are just considering final bulk of your yield. If you wanted more trichomes and less leafy buds then it might be considered bad. It's a matter of preference.

The Bandwidth thing can work both ways to, more bandwidth could mean more leafy yield with trichomes or trichomes with earlier harvest, depending on which side (earlier/later) of the trichome genes the bandwidth falls more. Rauber prefers to target one specific gene zone target for execution without hitting neighboring genes (earlier/later) in order to avoid secondary execution results (such as leafier buds or yeild losses due to an earlier end to flowering).

BG exists in nature, and a little doesn't seem to hurt anything, but in excess I personally consider it a bad thing, since it ends up producing more intermediate/indeterminate results.

I hope that's not too much more information than you needed. Genetic Bandwidth reduction is one of the final things addressed in Raubers work, but it is an interesting concept to consider (sort of a higher level of fine tuning).

Take Care, Sal.

[Dogznova]

Awesome explanation Sal. Good brain food for at least a month or two.. :thumbsup:

I do think that the orange light is executing certain leafy genes with this BB strain. These flowers look exactly like we are flowering this strain outdoors (at least the top 1/3 of the flowers do). The pics this weekend will show it a little better I hope.The leafy buds are mostly on the top third of the plants, So IMO it's defiantly ether blue light contamination from the (cheap party) orange inc's bulbs we are using or these BB flowers get real leafy when the orange light triggers these type of genetic responses. Not sure though. Ether way I'm going over there tonight and having him pull the orange inc's and replace them with some reds. My uncle and I have not gotten RED dialed in correctly yet IMO, so playing around with orange now is too soon for me. Like you said this type of gene execution could be a good thing for some strains but not with this BB strain. The less leaf the better.

We are still on 10 HPS and 3 PAD and 11 SID.

[Dogznova]

Update "Tub O Clones" This is now 9 full weeks of flowering. Considering we are using cheap DIY wally world store bought (party bulbs). These are the best 9 week flowers my uncle and I have ever gotten using only 10 hours of HPS with this BB strain. Someday when my uncle and I can get a good PAD lighting setup we can look back at this and say it was a good learning experience for us. I'm thinking if we can get relatively ok results with the DIY (party bulbs) then a pro PAD lighting setup could produce outstanding results IMO.

The first three weeks 24 hour flowering light schedule was

10 hours HPS
then
5 hours PAD lights
then
9 hours of SID (standard indoor darkness)

The last six weeks 24 hour flowering light schedule was

10 hours HPS
then
3 hours of PAD lights
then
11 hours of SID (standard indoor darkness)

IMO we did this flowering light schedule kind of backwards. My uncle and I should of started out with the 10/3/11 light schedule and then after day 21 or so we should then add a couple of extra hours to our red PAD lights (on time) for say 10 to 14 days for some good trichome production and then start to figure out a PAD ripening schedule. That's the plan next time.

As far as these flowers go. My uncle likes his flowers just how they are now. Not to couch lock but a real nice body buzz. He is going to cut most of TOC #1 down this week. I'm having him keep a couple of the flowers going until next weekend just to see how good 10 weeks will be with this light schedule. All in all this was a great grow IMO. Thanks Sal :thumbsup:

[Dogznova]

Update "Tub O Clones" #2 This is 5 full weeks of flowering using the 10/3/11 lighting schedule from above.

All I can say here is wally world orange (part bulbs) might not have been the best choice. These flowers look like they are being done outdoors to me. If I had to guess I would say that this will probably yield more but it will be the leaf material that contributes to the extra yield. Not what my uncle and I had in mind. Live and learn my friends.

Also this is in no way saying orange is not a good spectrum to use for PAD lighting. The DYI orange bulbs we used are cheap and gave my uncle and I inaccurate results IMO.

Sal I took as many pics for you as I could. I defiantly think there was some blue light contamination from the cheap orange inc party bulbs along with some Genetic Bandwidth type of things happening. We took them out and put red inc's back in. If nothing this should have interesting result to say the least. :thumbsup:

[Mother]

Hello everyone! Cheers to Dogz for all your experimentation! It looks like it's going well. I wanted to say hi and that I haven't died or contracted swine flu :-) I'll be done with school in less than a week (thank goodness) so in the honor of that (well, and because the timing just works out) I'm starting a new grow on my second martian attempt. I haven't started the new log yet, partially because I won't have time until next week and partially because I want to check with Sal to see if it's OK with the timing, but regardless of whether or not I post it, it's already started. :-)

A week ago, I put two Aurora Indica from vegging at 18/6 to total darkness for four days in order to kick off flowering. After that I put them under 12/12 for three days. One was male, so that one was cut and I'm left with one female plant. I just changed the lighting schedule on that plant to 6/11/6/1, as per my last guess on page 7 or 8 of this thread. The lights are:

Daytime: 2x 42w 2700k CFLs
AD: 8x 13w 660nm RED LED lamps plus 2x 25w Red incandescent

I believe my particular combination of LED and incandescent results in a time factor of about 2, so my schedule should look to the plants like 6 hours of daylight and 12 hours of SID-equivalent time. Of course, I'll be checking and adjusting as necessary.

BTW, anybody heard from Weez lately? I'm just wondering how he's doing...

[Dogznova]

Hi Mother. Good to see ya back. I look forward to see your new log. :thumbsup:

[Dogznova]

Update "Tub O Clones" #1

This was the last flower standing. We smoked some of what was cut down earlier this week. Had a good hash taste. I will get a pic of the dried flowers later this week.

[Mother]

Looks great, Dog!

Question for you: I noticed that you cut off the fan leaves of your flowering plants... at what point do you do that?

I also spoke too soon on my own plant... it's not a girl, it's actually a boy. :-( So I just made some clones that I'll start in the hydro tub in about a week, once they've rooted, then I'll veg them for a few weeks, THEN I'll start the log. :-)

[Dogznova]

Most of the time we don't cut off the fan leaves, but with this strain and doing a SOG type of grow it was a must. We started at the end of week 4 of flowering (I think). That's funny because that debate has been going on between my uncle and I for quite sometime :). Personally I think it's better when he cuts off the fan leaves. It gives more light to the flowers below.

[salmayo]

I just made some clones that I'll start in the hydro tub in about a week, once they've rooted, then I'll veg them for a few weeks, THEN I'll start the log. :-)

Looking forward to it Mother.

Good to see you back at it.

Take Care, Sal.

[salmayo]

Nice bud Dog!

I was just looking at the last set of photos from that "Tub O Clones" #2 update at week 5, and I'm wonderring if you took a sample, what the potency would be like if any.

Since PAD use tends to stimulate trichome/resin productiong, looks can be deceiving in such examples. The plant my be producing resin with higher secondary resins and little if any THC. THC is production is triggerred by proper scheduling, not just by resin production alone.

We've produced some experimental examples that look very much like this one, and some had little if any potency at all.

Trichome production is a good indicator of resin production, but potency is based more on resin profile than total quantity.

Just sharing some thoughts.

That last bud standing is a beaut though. Nice work Dog.

Take Care, Sal.

[Dogznova]

Good point sal. I will have my uncle try some later this week. I wouldn't be surprised if it is doing that. This might be our first bad batch using our DIY Martian light setup.

Here's a question. If it turns out the flowers don't have much potency. Can we let the TOC #2 go a few extra weeks to get some back now that we have been doing the proper flowering schedule or no?

I will post some TOC #2 pics this weekend. I just saw them a day or so ago. They looked about the same to me as week 5.

I told my uncle he is doing the manicuring on these. :D

[Dogznova]

I was at my uncles house today. These pics are of the last flower standing mostly cured. This flower will now go into a jar and be enjoyed on Memorial Day 09... :thumbsup:

We also cut up and smoked a nice top flower today. It defiantly has a good hash taste to it.
The bud itself has good density to it like it was grown in a hydro unit. This is by far the best 10 hour HPS grow we have done with this strain (hydro or dirt). :rasta:

[salmayo]

Here's a question. If it turns out the flowers don't have much potency. Can we let the TOC #2 go a few extra weeks to get some back now that we have been doing the proper flowering schedule or no?

You can get more potency from them by doing this, but the new buds forming will be more potent than the one that have already formed, so there will be differences in potency depending on what part of the final harvest is sampled. This is true to some extent usually, but it will probably be noticably so in the results for the harvest of those plants. You'll probably notice the newer buds near the tips are more potent than older the ones at the bottoms of the colas.

Take Care, Sal.

[Dogznova]

Here's the pic's I was going to post on Sunday..

Update TOC #2

This is 7 full weeks of flowering. I'm having trouble getting good pic's IMO. My uncle won't cut off the fan leaves on this batch. I told him he needs to get rid of all those leaves so the PAD lighting can get down through the canopy. Anyway it's his stuff.

He also said he will be cutting down these flowers in about 3 weeks wether there done or not. He took some samples on Sunday. One from towards the top of a flower and one from the middle of a different flower. Sal I will let you know if it's what I like to call "fools gold" or not. LOL

[farredeyed]

What it be Dog? it seems like every other time i try to check this thread the board is down. :( no wonder posting fell off

[Dogznova]

Farred what's up. Ya it's like that for me also. Mother is going to start another tread soon I think. I'm thinking about starting one of my own also..
We shall see. Good to see ya still around. :thumbsup:

[Mother]

Finally started my new log!

http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-log/172031-second-martian-method-attempt.html

This time it's one HDF plant and it's going to be beautiful.