Raising soil pH

[dillhole]

Here's the info, there's more pics in my grow log in my sig.

Plant age 56 days since germination. 19th day of 12/12
Indoor
Soil
50% Jungle Growth soil mixed with 25% vermiculite and 25% perlite
Miracle Growth veg nutes with tomato on box (no longer using)
Green Light bloom nutes 12-55-6 (have only used once at 1/2 strength)
Hydrated lime (used sparingly)
Permitherin and Bifenthrin insecticides (for fungus gnats, no longer using)
City water source pH about 7
Lights 13 Cfl's and two 48" t8 tubes (450 actual watts/1650 equivalent watts)
About 42000 lumens for 8 sq ft grow area
79-80F day temp/65F night temp
45% relative humidity average. 65% max. 30% low.
Closet has high CFM exhaust into attic with passive intake at floor level.


Here's my problem. Leaves are pointing down at their tips, new growth appears wrinkled, and the lower leaves are becoming a pale yellow. Some have just died and fell off. The plants are not as vibrant as they once were. My soil runoff is about 6. Too low. I think there may be some N lockout going on, but this is my first grow. I know not of what I speak :)

My question: All I have at my disposal to increase the pH of the soil is Hydrated lime. I have used small amounts in the nute mix before to raise the ph of the mix, but I haven't tried to change the soil ph with it. The plants are not drinking much anymore, the soil is still damp from a watering 4 days ago. Should I correct the pH now or wait until the soil is dry? Should I correct it now and add H2O2 for oxygenation? How should I mix the lime? Should I wait?

Please look at my pics and grow log and help me figure this out. Thanks!

[Dutch Pimp]

What size pots? Have you transplanted, lately? (roots growing out the bottom?)

[dillhole]

Thanks for the reply! The pots are 3 gallon and it's been about a month since they were transplanted to them. Yesterday I cut some additional drain holes at the bottom of the pots and discovered a few roots.

Think they may be rootbound too? I don't have any 5 gallon pots, but I have several 3 Gals. Would cutting the bottom out of the pots and stacking them on top of half filled 3 gal pots work?

[Dutch Pimp]

Thanks for the reply! The pots are 3 gallon and it's been about a month since they were transplanted to them. Yesterday I cut some additional drain holes at the bottom of the pots and discovered a few roots.

Think they may be rootbound too? I don't have any 5 gallon pots, but I have several 3 Gals. Would cutting the bottom out of the pots and stacking them on top of half filled 3 gal pots work?


I use 10 inch/(about) 3 gallon pots, too. All the way to harvest. But, I don't transplant into them, until the plants have shown their sex; which is usually 5-15 days into 12/12 flowering. That way, they have fresh soil, for the homestretch run.

I have read about growers stacking pots, but have not tried it.

We will wait until the plant 'Doctor' arrives...:D

I will look at your log, and think on it some more. I don't see an emergency yet, in the pics, here. I don't want to steer you in the wrong direction.

[Weedhound]

DP is right.....transplant to fresh soil or flush your soil to restore proper ph. Your runoff is low......and is locking out your nutes. This may well be due rootbound issues....your plants look very happy and healthy in the pics and may well simply need bigger pots with fresh soil.

I personally would tell you to go buy 5 gallons pots at wallyworld or something. If you flush and restore proper ph runoff and your plants are still losing leaves.....I'd vote for rootbound.

Fix your ph though.

[Weedhound]

And if you see roots coming out the bottom......bigger pots asap.

good luck.

[dillhole]

Thanks for the quick responses guys/gals. I feel better knowing that veteran growers, such as yourselves, don't see major problems yet.

The low pH I must correct. Like I said I only have hydrated lime. Should I flush them with water about 7.2 or 7.3 or is that too high?

One thing that concerns me about watering now is that the soil is still damp. I have very good drainage, the plants just aren't drinking much. I don't want to overwater and run the risk of root rot.

In an attempt to kill fungus gnats, I covered the top of the soil with perlite and vermiculite. After that is when the plants seemed to quit drinking. Could the vermiculite be trapping the moisture, keeping the soil from breathing? Should I scoop it off?

Yeah, I know. I'm the new guy with a million questions;)

[Weedhound]

I think your issue is twofold and by transplanting you can solve both issues at the same time.

Yes, you have to worry about root rot. But your ph being off is more of an issue than root rot you don't have yet. I love a good root product like Cannazym that prevents root rot and Rhizotonic with helps TREAT root rot. Consider one for your plants and growing. I'm wondering if you can add H202 to your flushing but am not really sure in soil so hesitate to tell you to add it. Something to think about though.

If you have done something different to your plants and then see a change for the worse by all means fix it. Remove the stuff and see what happens. Plants do things for a reason.....they don't just decide one day to get root rot or act funny.....they respond to their enviroment. If your roots are coming out the bottom then yes, these things can happen. You can get root rot. Your ph will drop. Your plant will not grow well and becomes at risk for all sorts of diseases, molds etc. If you cant get ahold of larger pots such as 5 gallon and get your girls transplanted in the next day or two (tops!!!) then I'd go ahead and flush with water ph'd to 6.9 until you get your desired runoff. It may take several gallons so I do mine in the bathtub.

Your questions are fine....they are thought out and reflect your willingness to do the work required to grow good plants. It's all a learning thing......but those who teach love to teach to those who listen and learn. I have a feeling you are capable of both. :)

[dillhole]

Thank you for the kind words. You are very encouraging!

I've already scoured my little pissant town for 5 gal pots and there are none. They must be a seasonal item. In fact, i had to order the 3 gal pots online. Wally World has some large decorative pots that are very expensive and they all have the built in drip tray. I'm short on money and time so I think I'm gonna try to stack some 3 gal pots. I think Shovelhandle has a thread where he did this and it worked.

I'm gonna add Cannazym to my list for next grow, thanks.

I'll keep ya posted :thumbsup:

[Weedhound]

Cool beans....!!

If you have feed stores anywhere around you you can grab some pretty big sized feed tubs and drill holes in the bottom for drainage. I would totally go with your "stacking" suggestion if you can accomplish it (though I'm not sure how...but worth a try) vs flushing a rootbound plant and leaving it in the same situation it was in already.

[Dutch Pimp]

IF ...I was rootbound in 3 gallon pots?....I would pull the plants out the pots...and trim away excess outside feeder roots and slice the rootball from four directions with a sharp knife.

It's not for the faint of heart...it's a Dutch method...for rootbound and needing fresh soil. Plus, a kiss of root stimulator.

Voodoo Magic...:wtf:

[Weedhound]

how much new fresh soil do you end up getting out of the deal? How much of the rootball do you cut away? I've always just gone and out and gotten larger pots.......I want to try your method DP.

[dillhole]

Just got back from lowe's and a local feed store. The only 5 gallon buckets I could find were the same diameter as my 3 gal pots. I found some 15 gallon "things" but that's way too big for my grow or grow space.

I'm gonna try to stack em. If it don't work, I'll know better next time. My plan is to fill the new 3gal pots about 2/3 of the way with my soil mix. Then cut about 4 inches off of the bottom of the plant pots with a utility knife. I'll cut the rootball up and place into the new pots.

DP, funny that you mentioned root stimulator. I just bought some :)

I'll post some pics when I'm done. Wish me luck!!!

[Weedhound]

I have several hybrids in 5 gallon pots I want to try this on DP.......what kind of signs do you see once you have done this and what kind of stress does it put on the plant?

Threadjack.....sorry.....but it still all relates :)

[Weedhound]

yes, keep us informed dillhole.....love to see the results. If you are up to taking pics along the way so much the better for us but don't stress over it. I'd just like to see what other options people are doing out there. :)

[dillhole]

Threadjack.....sorry.....but it still all relates :)

No prob! Keep the info coming!

[dillhole]

Well, it's done and I learned a few things. They were getting rootbound. Good call guys! They were also pretty dry toward the bottom of the pots. The vermiculite must have trapped moisture at the surface, making me think the plants were not drinking much.

It took 6 gallons of plain water (pH 7) to get a runoff in the upper six range. I went ahead and gave them some bloom nutes and root stimulator. I haven't added nutes in nearly two weeks, they must have been hungry too.

Within 30 minutes color started returning to the first plant I did. I think they are happy. Only time will tell how much the plants were shocked. I'll post more pics here in a few days. Keep your fingers crossed!

[Weedhound]

They look good......don't go getting all crazy now and "loving them to death" :eek: :D

PS I'd be willing to toss down a buck that says they'll do fine now.

[Weedhound]

And thanks for the photos. :)

[dillhole]

They look good......don't go getting all crazy now and "loving them to death"


Ha, I am probably doin' a little of that... It's my first grow, I'm entitled :D

[Dutch Pimp]

I have several hybrids in 5 gallon pots I want to try this on DP.......what kind of signs do you see once you have done this and what kind of stress does it put on the plant?

Threadjack.....sorry.....but it still all relates :)

I did 13 females, 2 weeks into flowering...using this method back in 2005. Never lost a single leaf. I do it quick and trim away about 50% of the feeder roots and shake as much old soil off, as possible. I'm not sure why slicing the rootball from four directions with a sharp knife is needed...but, I do as I'm told ...:stoned: I think the root stimulator is needed too, very weak dose.

[Weedhound]

What kind of root stimulater are you guys using?

[Dutch Pimp]

Root Stimulator-by ferti-lome. $3.95 pint. (4-10-3) I use like one or two drops per quart....:D

No ..that's how much I put in my coffee...:stoned:...I put a nimble full in a quart of water for the plants....:jointsmile:

[dillhole]

I bought some Green Light Root Stimulator (5-15-5) from Lowe's yesterday. I used 1.5 Tbsp per gallon. That's about half strength according to the label.

The plants are looking great this morning. Lush green and I think the cola's grew about an inch since yesterday. I'll take pics tomorrow. Thanks for your help!!!

[Weedhound]

That's what we like to hear! :thumbsup: And look, I just got a whole new bunch of cool info that we will be trying on my own plants too; so win win I say. :)

[Weedhound]

Upon reflection......you and I both learned something......Dutch Pimp only had the pleasure of our company for his reward......but....oh well.....that's his problem. :D :D

[Dutch Pimp]

Time well spent...:thumbsup:

[dillhole]

Since I can't share my harvest with either of you, you'll have to settle with a few karma points. What goes around, comes around! :rastasmoke:

[dillhole]

but my wife had to do the doctor and hospital thang... I'm sure most of you here know what that's like:( She's fine now though, glad to be at home:thumbsup:

On to a happier subject, my plants have been busy!!! They've gotten frosty in my absence. I don't know if it was the flush or the fresh soil that did it (or both) but they seem very happy! I'll update my grow log when I have more time.

Thanks again for your help!!!

[Dutch Pimp]

Nice. I may try that double stacking pots....next grow...:thumbsup: