More proof of winning the war...

[apocolips31]

BBC NEWS | Middle East | US hands province to Iraqi forces (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7696785.stm)

This is exactly why we need to stay there a little longer. Iraq is one step closer to controlling all of their provinces themselves. We need to stay long enough to make sure they can maintain it themselves as well. While it was wrong to go in it would be worse just to pull out before they can take care of themselves again. Which this article shows should be soon.

[Peruvian Devil]

FINALLY!! Then we will be able to start a new war with Iran or Cuba or some other country :thumbsup:

[flyingimam]

FINALLY!! Then we will be able to start a new war with Iran or Cuba or some other country :thumbsup:

hah, tough luck! the only way thats gonna happen is another direct attack on American soil by some idiot...
I sure hope our 8 years of colorful warning levels and DHS bullshit has made us stronger for such a crude attack

to bush, this war was won in 2004, to others it may be won in god knows how long from now

to me "winning" a setup war, a war that was started with outright lies aint no better than losing it. in fact neither one means anything to me, i just know we started something wrong and we keep insisting on it with all kinds of excuses, none appeal to me

[Peruvian Devil]

There shoud really be a sarcasm button on the keyboard.
I was just pointing out, or hoping to point out, that even if we "win" the Iraqi war there is always going to be another war to send kids to.

[flyingimam]

There shoud really be a sarcasm button on the keyboard.
I was just pointing out, or hoping to point out, that even if we "win" the Iraqi war there is always going to be another war to send kids to.

I'm pretty sure I didnt take your comment there seriously and literally, but im in no good mood, was quite bitchy today after missing my class this morning.

my bad:D

[Guajiro]

i'm sure that if macain wins the election he will show u the proof that yall are winning the war, " we have found the weapons of mass destruction"....

peace.......

[apocolips31]

hah, tough luck! the only way thats gonna happen is another direct attack on American soil by some idiot...
I sure hope our 8 years of colorful warning levels and DHS bullshit has made us stronger for such a crude attack

to bush, this war was won in 2004, to others it may be won in god knows how long from now

to me "winning" a setup war, a war that was started with outright lies aint no better than losing it. in fact neither one means anything to me, i just know we started something wrong and we keep insisting on it with all kinds of excuses, none appeal to me Dude, you are entitled to your opinion and everything but, that is sad you don't care about what happens to the people we fucked up. They are having a hard enough time getting water and making a existence let alone a life. We have a obligation to fix what we fucked up. Just think about all those kids that will be better for all the things we are doing right now. Just like the post about all the schools we are building there. They are very close to controlling all their provinces them selves which proves the security situation is getting better. To pull out now would make all those soldiers and civilians(shouldn't have died at all) die in vain. Do you think that all the Iraqi soldiers and people that are helping us now will just be accepted back like that?

[flyingimam]

Dude, you are entitled to your opinion and everything but, that is sad you don't care about what happens to the people we fucked up. They are having a hard enough time getting water and making a existence let alone a life. We have a obligation to fix what we fucked up. Just think about all those kids that will be better for all the things we are doing right now. Just like the post about all the schools we are building there. They are very close to controlling all their provinces them selves which proves the security situation is getting better. To pull out now would make all those soldiers and civilians(shouldn't have died at all) die in vain. Do you think that all the Iraqi soldiers and people that are helping us now will just be accepted back like that?

true, but I have a problem with the word "winning" about this war. I never said we should pull out now. I just have an issue with the idea that we need to stay there till we are titled the "winners" cuz thats an open ended path

U should know that our ex-enemy (sunnis who were down with al-qaeda before) are with us because they are on our payroll, lets imagine what happens when we tell them they got not a dime anymore.

sunnis and shias there got extremist sections that as soon as u take off the pressure will totally make a blood bath, I come from middle east, I know it first hand man. Wahhabis and shias dont mix, and Iraq will go under indirect fight of Saudis and Iranian regime because saudis hate a non-arab state (iran) to have any influence in an arab country, but iraqis are mostly shia and iran has its own way in there as u see(iranian regime is the only officially shia govt in the world). all of this is too bad for me to imagine how much longer OUR money that many of us never wanted to be spent there is gonna be spent to keep 2 groups of lunatics from killing each other

but I sure hope iraqis take charge of their country so there wont be anymore excuses, but trust me, without regional countries' cooperation with them, violence will not be contained fully nor permanently.

but I betcha we will forever stay there in some sort and that just in itself is a cause for trouble, dont u see? they are already hating us for literally doing this same thing to other Arab countries, they view it as occupation. along with our unconditional support for Israel against Palestinians (who are arabs as well)

but what do i know
we shall wait n see when they will take full charge and don't "need" us anymore, appreciating us for our prolonged stay and "helping" them

if we really had the intent to "help" them, we would never ever back up saddam hussein in his war against Iran, we would never let our allies do such a thing either, we would have taken him out like that in the first persian gulf war, we wouldnt have to lie about WMDs, we would just straight up say u know what? these people are in dire conditions, they need our help, and use that as the only and main reason to go to war... u see where im goin with this

[apocolips31]

Yes, I do see your point but, sense we did go in even though we shouldn't have, we now have to man up and take responsibility for our actions. We can't just leave all those people on a road we made them go on. I also do believe their is a limit. The country wasn't perfect when we went into it and it won't be perfect when we leave nor should it be. Our responsibility should be to make sure it can stand on it's on two feet and keep standing.

[flyingimam]

Yes, I do see your point but, sense we did go in even though we shouldn't have, we now have to man up and take responsibility for our actions. We can't just leave all those people on a road we made them go on. I also do believe their is a limit. The country wasn't perfect when we went into it and it won't be perfect when we leave nor should it be. Our responsibility should be to make sure it can stand on it's on two feet and keep standing.

cool, see thats why i think debates are worthwhile, u can always try to clear up points and finally find common ground.

trust me, i aint sayin we should get out NOW, nor do i say we need a time table with precise details right now, i just say we cant stay on an open ended schedule there nor should we plan our policies on basis of such an unlimited stay

Iraq is different from Japan and Germany, maybe there was some justification for our troops to permanently or at least for a very long time stay in those 2 countries [however, i dont think we're quite needed there anymore] u know, but u hear the same argument around that we went into japan 60 years ago and we're still there... thats scary to me

i just would not base the argument on winning OR losing, to me we've already lost by undermining our own integrity and credibility going in to this war, fooling our own citizens and the rest of the world.
now we are kind of paying the restitution and cleaning up after the mess, i surely hope it works and its quick, so we can focus back on our "homeland" issues and problems

[Peruvian Devil]

The responsibility you speak of is mostly just manufactured opportunity, who do you think gets pay to rebuild nations?, and where is the money coming from?.

There is only winning for those who make money and gain land and resources from the war, and there is only losing for the rest of us. Perhaps the US did rid Iraq of a horrible leader, but we must not forget who put him into power in the first place, once again manufactured opportunity. This is all pretty much a chess match, and none of us have the capability to even understand how the pieces move.

[Dutch Pimp]

we lost in 'nam...but, at last ...we're.. free, of that God forsaken place.

Iraq will be with us a long time, too.