If the world could vote...

[Chong Version 2.0]

The world seems to prefer one candidate.

If the world could vote? (http://www.iftheworldcouldvote.com/results)

It looks like McCain has some friends in Macedonia and Venezuela. LOL :rastasmoke:

[maladroit]

it shows over 80% of americans voting for barack obama

that can't be right!

[killerweed420]

I think McCain should run for office in Macedonia. They seem to like him there.:smokin:

[bigtopsfinn]

The world seems to prefer one candidate.

If the world could vote? (http://www.iftheworldcouldvote.com/results)

It looks like McCain has some friends in Macedonia and Venezuela. LOL :rastasmoke:

You forgot about Albania!

[JakeMartinez]

it shows over 80% of americans voting for barack obama

that can't be right!

It's an active poll, mate.

[8182KSKUSH]

It's an active poll, mate.


Looks pretty fucking active to me mate!
I have seen some gaps between polls but that is laughable.

You know what I think,
I read the title,
"If the world could vote..."
I thought,
"Well fuck them they can't vote."
:D:thumbsup::D:jointsmile:
And that's all I got.

[apocolips31]

LOL if the poll for the USA is off that much I doubt the other countries are correct either. Next time post a accurate poll please....

[maladroit]

the poll isn't accurate, but obama is a lot more popular outside the usa than he is inside the usa...that much is true

[8182KSKUSH]

the poll isn't accurate, but obama is a lot more popular outside the usa than he is inside the usa...that much is true


THis is true, of course.
NOw let me lay this out.
I wonder how many posts, literally have been made just here at c dot about how "The rest of the world HATES America".
Probably more than can be counted, this has been a dogma from the left forever and ever.
Hmmmm....
So let's see, the world HATES America, they BLAME America first, they want to see America FAIL, and whom now does the world favor as the next leader of the nation that they so despise and have for so long as been taught to us by the left....................
And then my next question is, "why do you think the world does support Obama soo much?"
Golly? I wonder? Apparently the world disagrees with the left in the USA on the fact that Obama and his policies would do more harm to America than good, they support him because he serves their intrests which is to undermine the core fundamental values of this nation.
Wake up people.

[JaySin]

That or they see him as someone that will end Americas tirade on the the planet. Someone that will bring good instead of bad. Someone that well, I think you see where I'm going with this.

It works both ways, it's not like we can just say what they think. We are not them after all.

This is one thing I've always wondered. How does the rest of the world view our election and why? It would be nice if we could get input from people from all around the world like that, not just speculate as to why they support one candidate over the other.

[8182KSKUSH]

That or they see him as someone that will end Americas tirade on the the planet. Someone that will bring good instead of bad. Someone that well, I think you see where I'm going with this.

It works both ways, it's not like we can just say what they think. We are not them after all.

This is one thing I've always wondered. How does the rest of the world view our election and why? It would be nice if we could get input from people from all around the world like that, not just speculate as to why they support one candidate over the other.


You're absolutely right, it could go either way as far as why the support for him internationally. (IMO, I'm right and you're not though!:D:D)
This is one of those questions I don't believe we will truly ever know the answer to, but it is a good conversation to have. You could easily make an argument for either side.:jointsmile:

[Dreadscale]

Hi All !!!! :thumbsup:

Great Post !!!

Looks Accurate to me :D

3 more days and we will know.
:hippy:

[bigtopsfinn]

I can say that foreigners, at least my fellow Europeans, do not hate America. Instead, they hate Bush, and the war in Iraq, and the major American Corporations that invade their towns with McDonald's restaurants.

I have watched some documentaries here in Finland that are about the U.S., but could never be shown in the U.S., because the lawyers of the big corps would bankrupt anyone who tried to by taking them to court.

[Breukelen advocaat]

I can say that foreigners, at least my fellow Europeans, do not hate America. Instead, they hate Bush, and the war in Iraq, and the major American Corporations that invade their towns with McDonald's restaurants.

I have watched some documentaries here in Finland that are about the U.S., but could never be shown in the U.S., because the lawyers of the big corps would bankrupt anyone who tried to by taking them to court.
I've never been to Finland, but I've seen some very bad misleading information about the U.S. in other European cities, including Amsterdam.

As far as the documentaries that you mentioned, there must be clips of some kind available on youtube or elsewhere. They would be interesting to view.

I understand the disgust with McDonalds, but if people in the towns where they are didn't patronize this business, they'd be forced to close. This is what happened to many Starbucks franchises in Australia, and elsewhere.

[maladroit]

"I wonder how many posts, literally have been made just here at c dot about how "The rest of the world HATES America". "

- can you show me some of those posts from the dogmatic left here that the world HATES america and they want to see america FAIL? i did a search and couldn't find a single one

[8182KSKUSH]

I would be glad to, as long as you have been a member I find it hard to believe that you don't recall them?

Try copy and paste this to your google search.
I didn't go through the 300+ hits, but I have personally read many many posts pertaining to what we are discussing.

world hate america site://boards.cannabis.com

Anyone, liberal or conservative, that has been posting or reading in the politics forum this last year surely could concede that in fact there are many many posts that speak about how the world hates America, as well as many many posts about how some Americans hate America.:D

[maladroit]

i already spent a long time using the search function on this site looking for any posts containing 'hate' and 'america' and 'united states'...i went all the way back to december 2007 and you were one of the only members i found talking about hating america

perhaps you often perceive hatred where there is only criticism...i am certain there are people who really do hate america, but it isn't standard liberal dogma...after obama is president, some right wing ideologues will be whining about how obama and the democrats are ruining america...does that mean they hate america? of course not!

[8182KSKUSH]

Ok?:wtf:
Well then don't look at the link I posted I guess?
I am not saying every result is one, but many many of them are. If you prefer I guess I could post every result, but the point is, they are there.

I don't use the search function on this site. Ever. For anything. The site specific google search is much much better. If you are ever searching for something specific here at this site anyway.

Other intresting related searches you could look at that are related.
fuck america site://boards.cannabis.com\

Again, over 300 results.
So yeah, there is plenty o America bashing.

[maladroit]

you didn't post a link

when someone makes a claim, the burden of proof lies on them to prove it...if you don't want to step up then i guess there wasn't really much to step on in the first place

[maladroit]

i went through the first page of google results for fuck america site://boards.cannabis.com\

besides being YEARS old, they were criticisms of the american government...there: i did your work for you

[B.Basher]

It is the belief of the majority outside of the US that McCain represents everything America has stood for thus far on the world stage: Warmongering, close-mindedness, religion before politics, elitism, etc, etc.
Obama, the first black person to make such an impact in US politics, as well as making such intriguing promises to the rest of the world for a brighter, better, less-asshole America, is naturally the obvious choice for those on the outside. Thankfully, we are unable to share the divisive, self-righteous mindframe of "patriotic" Americans that choose to think about themselves first and the wider world second and therefore would consider voting in someone that would vouch for Sarah Palin to take over if the worst should happen. Sarah Palin of all people, yet somehow she remains a strong role model for many Americans.

Though I don't think he's as useless as George Bush, McCain is simply more of the same. It's not a popularity contest, it's history being made. We can't rely on you guys to make the right decision.

My personal view is that it doesn't matter who wins. It'll only decide who takes the blame for the worlds woes for the next four years (recession, war, etc). The bigger issues of the world are out of the US governments hands. Recession is inevitable and the Iraq and Afghan wars ain't stopping any time soon. If Obama wins, bitter republicans will slate him for everything. If McCain wins, it'll be bitter liberals. At the very least, a win for Obama would symbolise an evolution in the American public to recognise a good leader. That's the least we can hope for.

But it won't happen.

[8182KSKUSH]

you didn't post a link

when someone makes a claim, the burden of proof lies on them to prove it...if you don't want to step up then i guess there wasn't really much to step on in the first place


Oh! OK! Geez so sorry. Actually I DID just post 2 links, you need to cut and paste them, but if that is the only thing holding you back, then here you go I guess?

Click Me IF YOU DARE!!! DIRECT "CLICKABLE" LINK TO THE FIRST SEARCH RESULTS!!
(http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=world+hate+america+site%3A%2F%2Fboards.cannabis. com&btnG=Search)
THIS IS THE SECOND LINK TO RESULTS FROM THE SECOND SET OF SEARCH OF "FUCK AMERICA". (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=fuck+america+site%3A%2F%2Fboards.cannabis.com&btnG=Search)


Sorry if that's time too time consuming or too much trouble for you. I don't have to go in and pick every one out that is an example of what I am talking about, they are there. I have read them. And the ones I have read have been with in the last year. Again, I believe I have proven my point, but if I have to, I will post individual threads for you and THEN maybe you will get what I am saying. Let me know if it's too much trouble to look through the google results.:D

[B.Basher]

Let me know if it's too much trouble to look through the google results.:D

That's fair-dos right there man, but don't be an extremist and disregard the entire wider world for the overblown statements of a few wet-blouses, and don't let it cloud your judgement either or your just as bad as those guys.

[maladroit]

cool logic: lemme try it out

liberals hate america...it's true because i read it on the internet somewhere...go look it up if you don't believe me

what? you couldn't find it? too bad...i am not going to dig around google to prove it to you...someone said fuck america 3 years ago, therefore these forums are riddled with countless examples of liberal anti-american dogma

[8182KSKUSH]

cool logic: lemme try it out

liberals hate america...it's true because i read it on the internet somewhere...go look it up if you don't believe me

what? you couldn't find it? too bad...i am not going to dig around google to prove it to you...someone said fuck america 3 years ago, therefore these forums are riddled with countless examples of liberal anti-american dogma

LOL!!!
Wow buddy!
Anyway, we were talking specifically about examples from this site of the "hate america/ world hates america dogma". That is exactly what I gave as examples.
You are the one that is trying to sidetrack the conversation at this point by trying to say that now we are talking about how I think that liberals hate america based on the posts on the forum. That's not what I was talking about, nor anyone else actually. You kind of just pulled that out of your ass.:thumbsup:
Again, what we were, or at least what I was talking about before you got all in a hussy was that there is and has been a very popular belief that has been perpetuated endlessly that the world "hates America". There are many examples just here on this forum.

Here is your last post again. You should read it aloud.


- can you show me some of those posts from the dogmatic left here that the world HATES america and they want to see america FAIL? i did a search and couldn't find a single one

You asked a direct question about my post, I provided the info and now you don't want to accept it. YOU ASKED FOR IT! WTF?
I dunno what you want I guess. Just don't ever acknowledge the information I gave you I guess and then it's like it doesn't exist!:D

[maladroit]

"You are the one that is trying to sidetrack the conversation at this point by trying to say that now we are talking about how I think that liberals hate america based on the posts on the forum. That's not what I was talking about, nor anyone else actually. You kind of just pulled that out of your ass."

- actually i pulled it directly out of your post in this thread where you wrote:
'I wonder how many posts, literally have been made just here at c dot about how "The rest of the world HATES America".
Probably more than can be counted, this has been a dogma from the left forever and ever.'

i disagree with your claims...i don't believe hating america is a liberal dogma, and i don't believe that liberals want america to fail, and i don't believe it's even a common sentiment on these forums...i went to your link, and read the posts, and they were criticisms of the US government that were years old, and at least two of them were made by americans


lemme ask you: do you love the american war on drugs? no? why do you hate america so much? it doesn't work like that


look at iran...you would think iranians totally hate america but they don't...they wear american clothes and eat american food and watch hours and hours of american tv/movies...iranians admire american democracy and american freedoms...but they don't like american government policies...it's like that in most of the rest of the world too...america is a great country with a not-so-great government:
USATODAY.com - 'America' no longer a dirty word in Iran (http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2002/01/03/usatcov-iranchanges.htm)

[B.Basher]

i disagree with your claims...i don't believe hating america is a liberal dogma, and i don't believe that liberals want america to fail, and i don't believe it's even a common sentiment on these forums...i went to your link, and read the posts, and they were criticisms of the US government that were years old


lemme ask you: do you love the american war on drugs? no? why do you hate america so much? it doesn't work like that


look at iran...you would think iranians totally hate america but they don't...they wear american clothes and eat american food and watch hours and hours of american tv/movies...iranians admire american democracy and american freedoms...but they don't like american government policies...it's like that in most of the rest of the world too...america is a great country with a not-so-great government

To be fair, I know tons of people that nurture the whole 'aah yeah, fuck America. America sucks, myaaah, myaaaah'.

Actually it takes all forms. You get the condescending abuse ("Americans just don't have a bloody clue do they?"), the not so middle man ("Some Americans are all right, but most of them are FUCKING DICKS!"), and then just the all out hatred ("Fuck America! I fucking hate ALL Americans!") <-- This is one is most found at parties and on the internet.

It's funny how people assume anti-Americanism is restricted to a particular mindset. "Oooh, its liberals trying to bring us down.", "It's jihadists!", "It's nihilists!" Mate, its fucking EVERYONE. Liberal is just a word you toss around. It doesn't take any kind of mindset to judge an asshole. It's a human condition.

Hope that makes both of you feel better :thumbsup: .

[maladroit]

you could be a bi-partisan diplomat and sew america back together!

[8182KSKUSH]

you didn't post a link

when someone makes a claim, the burden of proof lies on them to prove it...if you don't want to step up then i guess there wasn't really much to step on in the first place


i went through the first page of google results for fuck america site://boards.cannabis.com\

besides being YEARS old, they were criticisms of the american government...there: i did your work for you


Oh! OK! Geez so sorry. Actually I DID just post 2 links, you need to cut and paste them, but if that is the only thing holding you back, then here you go I guess?

Click Me IF YOU DARE!!! DIRECT "CLICKABLE" LINK TO THE FIRST SEARCH RESULTS!!
(http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=world+hate+america+site%3A%2F%2Fboards.cannabis. com&btnG=Search)
THIS IS THE SECOND LINK TO RESULTS FROM THE SECOND SET OF SEARCH OF "FUCK AMERICA". (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=fuck+america+site%3A%2F%2Fboards.cannabis.com&btnG=Search)


Sorry if that's time too time consuming or too much trouble for you. I don't have to go in and pick every one out that is an example of what I am talking about, they are there. I have read them. And the ones I have read have been with in the last year. Again, I believe I have proven my point, but if I have to, I will post individual threads for you and THEN maybe you will get what I am saying. Let me know if it's too much trouble to look through the google results.:D






- actually i pulled it directly out of your post in this thread where you wrote:
'I wonder how many posts, literally have been made just here at c dot about how "The rest of the world HATES America".
Probably more than can be counted, this has been a dogma from the left forever and ever.'

Wow that's weird, me quoting you quoting me. Anyway, Show me where in that statement is says that liberals hate America.
It doesn't say that. It says that liberals have put forth the notion that the rest of the world does hate us, and that's what they have been saying forever. So assuming that they are correct, then why would the rest of the world, that according to the left hates us, support 1 candidate over another? If they hate us, you could assume they do not have our best interests at heart.
So again I say that this: you promptly pulled out of your ass the moment that I responded to this.







- can you show me some of those posts from the dogmatic left here that the world HATES america and they want to see america FAIL? i did a search and couldn't find a single one


cool logic: lemme try it out

liberals hate america...it's true because i read it on the internet somewhere...go look it up if you don't believe me


So yeah, as soon as I proved my point, you tried to take this converation down that road.

Somehow me answering your posts means that I think liberals hate america. OK fine then. I am satisfied with the points that I have made, and the responses to your posts. I really don't have any more to add, so there ya go I guess.:thumbsup:

[B.Basher]

Ha, that could be a negative or a positive judgement on my behalf :D . Either way it's true.

I think the more time you guys (ie. you politically divided Americans) argue about who's hating America, your losing ground on what you could be agreeing on or at the least, creating genuine debates out of real issues, silly men. If i'm talking about music or movies, I don't start with "but some people hate rock music/Bond movies". Who gives a fuck? Shouldn't you both be DEFENDING America instead? Don't you think people's judgements go beyond rudderless hate? Perhaps either one of your presidents could do well to curb this problem, don't you think? Who might that be?

I can't believe this is still an issue for you guys. Anti-American? Who the fuck invented the term anyway?



It'd be Obama

[8182KSKUSH]

Ha, that could be a negative or a positive judgement on my behalf :D . Either way it's true.

I think the more time you guys (ie. you politically divided Americans) argue about who's hating America, your losing ground on what you could be agreeing on or at the least, creating genuine debates out of real issues, silly men. If i'm talking about music or movies, I don't start with "but some people hate rock music/Bond movies". Who gives a fuck? Shouldn't you both be DEFENDING America instead? Don't you think people's judgements go beyond rudderless hate? Perhaps either one of your presidents could do well to curb this problem, don't you think? Who might that be?

I can't believe this is still an issue for you guys. Anti-American? Who the fuck invented the term anyway?



It'd be Obama

I personally don't buy into the "world hates america" crap.
It is a broad over generalization, that I just don't buy. Are there people that "hate" america, yes. Does it matter in the big scheme of things, no. Should who in the world likes/dislikes the USA matter, no.:jointsmile::thumbsup:

[flyingimam]

Does it matter in the big scheme of things, no. Should who in the world likes/dislikes the USA matter, no.:jointsmile::thumbsup:

u know... thats exactly why 9.11 happened, just because of this kind of thinking... what does it take for Americans to understand world and its 7 billion people are not theirs

People wont just hate us for no reason u know? even al-qaeda doesnt hate us just because we are americans, they sadly do have a basic valid point, I think u should have listened to your party's only hope for presidency earlier: Ron Paul, i think he put it out in the best way possible
Why Ron Paul Is Right About Terrorism: A Letter to the GOP Base by David T. Beito and Scott Horton (http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig8/beito2.html)

u should read more history man, empires far greater and more powerful in relative scale of their time than America have come and reigned their power with the same way of thinking for many many years, and yet none remain in todays world

I refer u to the definition in my signature, that is exactly what u r doing and how u r thinking and i have no problem callin u out on it, with all due respect as a fellow stoner and activist.

one clarification: I dont think the rest of the world hates us, but certainly our actions have lead to a large majority of the world to question America or go further down the way of extremist emotions, "hating" us

i think however, a more considerable portion of the world's people have negative feelings toward us than they had say 15-20 years ago or even 50 years ago

[8182KSKUSH]

u know... thats exactly why 9.11 happened, just because of this kind of thinking... what does it take for Americans to understand world and its 7 billion people are not theirs

People wont just hate us for no reason u know? even al-qaeda doesnt hate us just because we are americans, they sadly do have a basic valid point, I think u should have listened to your party's only hope for presidency earlier: Ron Paul, i think he put it out in the best way possible
Why Ron Paul Is Right About Terrorism: A Letter to the GOP Base by David T. Beito and Scott Horton (http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig8/beito2.html)

u should read more history man, empires far greater and more powerful in relative scale of their time than America have come and reigned their power with the same way of thinking for many many years, and yet none remain in todays world

I refer u to the definition in my signature, that is exactly what u r doing and how u r thinking and i have no problem callin u out on it, with all due respect as a fellow stoner and activist.

OK!
you are entitled to your opinion, but you are wrong.

[8182KSKUSH]

u know... thats exactly why 9.11 happened, just because of this kind of thinking... what does it take for Americans to understand world and its 7 billion people are not theirs

Incorrect, that terrorist attack as well as others around the world have happened because of religious fanatics that do not believe anyone that does not share their world view should live. Plain and simple.

[PicsorShens]

Incorrect, that terrorist attack as well as others around the world have happened because of religious fanatics that do not believe anyone that does not share their world view should live. Plain and simple.

Is that Rush Limbaugh in your avatar?

[maladroit]

islamic terrorists are not forcing their world view on us - we are forcing our world view on entire muslim countries, and terrorism is a response to our policies


November 29, 2004

'They hate our policies, not our freedom'
Pentagon report contains major criticisms of administration.
by Tom Regan | csmonitor.com

Late on the Wednesday afternoon before the Thanksgiving holiday, the US Defense Department confirmed the contents of a report by the Defense Science Board that is highly critical of the administration's efforts in the war on terror and in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The report had been originally placed on the DSB's website in early November.

'Muslims do not hate our freedom, but rather they hate our policies [the report says]. The overwhelming majority voice their objections to what they see as one-sided support in favor of Israel and against Palestinian rights, and the long-standing, even increasing, support for what Muslims collectively see as tyrannies, most notably Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Pakistan and the Gulf states. Thus, when American public diplomacy talks about bringing democracy to Islamic societies, this is seen as no more than self-serving hypocrisy.'

The Pentagon confirmed the study after The New York Times ran a story about the report in its Wednesday editions.

The Defense Science Board, reports Disinfopedia, is "a Federal advisory committee established to provide independent advice to the Secretary of Defense."

'The current Board is authorized to consist of thirty-two members plus seven ex officio members': the chairmen of the Army, Navy, Air Force, Policy, Ballistic Missile Defense Advisory Committee, and Defense Intelligence Agency Science and Technology Advisory Committee. 'Members, whose appointed terms range from one to four years, are selected on the basis of their preeminence in the fields of science, technology and its application to military operations, research, engineering, manufacturing and acquisition process.'

[flyingimam]

Incorrect, that terrorist attack as well as others around the world have happened because of religious fanatics that do not believe anyone that does not share their world view should live. Plain and simple.

man, the religious fanatics were living in peace with the rest of the world (trust me, I know islam aint got no new extremist rules or laws, everything is kinda from hundreds of years ago, all that jihad shit, its been out there since islam was out there) until just about after world war 2 when we created UN, took a piece of muslim/arab land and named it israel and sent jews from all over the world to and to this date we continue our unconditional support for this state, buying hatred of A LOT of other nations for it

just put yourself in an arab man's shoes and look at things that way to understand whats wrong and why they hate us

how come these religious fanatics were good for America when they were fighting Communists in afghanistan? how come we funded and supplied them then? do u think these people are idiots? did u not listen to the reasons that scumbag bin laden laid out as to why he attacked the towers in new york?

do u not know of our countries coup de tats all over the world? Do u not know of our support and actions in the coup that resulted in fall of the ONLY DEMOCRATIC government in iran in the last 100 years? yes that was due to oil despite what govt claims that IRANIANS wanted it... which iranian wants their new nationalized oil and the PM who achieved it to be overthrown? only the coward Shah of iran and his allies wanted that and they totally achieved it with our help... guess what, such actions led to the damn islamic revolution, and extremism expanded its roots on these actions leading to hostage crisis and shit just took off from there

sure, some of these religious fanatics may have an idea like the one u r describing these days, but remember that not all those who dislike us are religious fanatics, they are a tiny denounced group even by the mainstream muslims. and they have had hundreds of years if they wanted to convert everyone to their way (like christians dont do that, for god sake, we did that to native americans, and we kept slaves while trying to make them christians)

All im saying is this: Our past actions have totally boosted their cause if anything. they were a very very tiny group who have just seen their base expand cause more people are hurt by our arrogance and our carelessness thus choosing them over us... pretty stupid right, but what can u expect when no1 hears ur points or cares about them.

our best ally in the arab world: KSArabia is a total dictatorship, violating a bunch of human rights, even worse than what u hear about Iran, they are those wahhabis who gave rise to Bin laden and his gang, yet we still continue to support them and be cool with them

this is all about oil & $s, at any price, even blood of other nations and even americans

[psychocat]

I can say with some certainty that if it were down to the Great Britain vote then Obama would walk it , the majority of Brits I've spoken to just have not taken to McCain at all.


islamic terrorists are not forcing their world view on us - we are forcing our world view on entire muslim countries, and terrorism is a response to our policies'
American forign policy is very unpopular in many nations and you aren't going to change thier minds by bombing and invading, you simply add to the list of "enemies".

[B.Basher]

I personally don't buy into the "world hates america" crap.
It is a broad over generalization, that I just don't buy. Are there people that "hate" america, yes. Does it matter in the big scheme of things, no. Should who in the world likes/dislikes the USA matter, no.

Of course if you did honestly feel this way, you wouldn't get so riled up about the discussion :thumbsup: . You might even pass a valuable judgement on an important political matter. :D


Incorrect, that terrorist attack as well as others around the world have happened because of religious fanatics that do not believe anyone that does not share their world view should live. Plain and simple.

Naive statement indeed right there my friend.

[8182KSKUSH]

And yet again, 2 completely opposed world view points are on display!:D

[maladroit]

World hopes for a 'less arrogant America' after presidential election
Published: Tuesday, November 4, 2008 | 9:39 AM ET
Canadian Press: William J. Kole And Matt Moore, THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

BERLIN - The world was riveted by the election drama unfolding Tuesday in the United States, inspired by the hope embodied by Barack Obama or simply relieved that - whoever wins - an administration that spawned Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay was coming to an end.

From Berlin's Brandenburg Gate to the small town of Obama, Japan, the globe geared up to celebrate a fresh start for America after eight wearisome years of George W. Bush.

In Germany, where more than 200,000 flocked to see Obama this summer as he moved to burnish his foreign policy credentials during a trip to the Middle East and Europe, the election dominated television ticker crawls, newspaper headlines and websites.

Hundreds of thousands prepared to party through the night to watch the outcome of an election having an impact far beyond America's shores. Among the more irreverent festivities planned in Paris: a "Goodbye George" party to bid farewell to Bush.

"Like many French people, I would like Obama to win because it would really be a sign of change," said Vanessa Doubine, shopping Tuesday on the Champs-Elysees. "I deeply hope for America's image that it will be Obama."

Europeans had a sense of the momentous change that was about to unfold.

"America is electing a new president, but for the Germans, for Europeans, it is electing the next world leader," said Alexander Rahr, director of the German Council on Foreign Relations.

"We see new challenges coming up, not only Islamic extremism, but a newly resurgent Russia, China, India, Pakistan, North Korea - everywhere there are fires," he said. "And we, as Europeans, can't solve these problems without America. A world without American leadership is, for most Europeans, a world of chaos."

Obama-mania was evident not only across Europe, where millions geared up for all-night vigils, but also in much of the Islamic world, where Muslims expressed hope that the Democrat would seek compromise rather than confrontation.

The Bush administration alienated Muslims by mistreating prisoners at its detention centre for terrorism suspects at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and inmates at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison - human rights violations also condemned worldwide.

"I hope Obama wins (because) of the need of the world to see the U.S. represent a more cosmopolitan or universal political attitude," said Rais Yatim, the foreign minister of mostly Muslim Malaysia.

"The new president will have an impact on the economic and political situation in my country," said Muhammad al-Thaheri, 48, a civil servant in Saudi Arabia. Like so many around the world, he was rooting for Obama "because he will change the path the U.S. is on under Bush."

Nizar al-Kortas, a columnist for Kuwait's Al-Anbaa newspaper, saw an Obama victory as "a historic step to change the image of the arrogant American administration to one that is more acceptable in the world."

Yet John McCain enjoyed a strong current of support in countries such as Israel, where he is perceived as tougher on Iran.

Israeli leaders have not openly declared a preference. But privately, they have expressed concern about Obama, who has alarmed some by saying he would be ready to hold a dialogue with Tehran.

Taking a cigarette break on a Jerusalem street corner, bank employee Leah Nizri, 53, said Obama represented potentially frightening change.

"I think he'll be pleasant to Israel, but he will make changes," she said. "He's too young. I think that especially in a situation of a world recession, where things are so unclear in the world, McCain would be better than Obama."

Even in Europe, McCain got some grudging respect: Germany's mass-circulation daily Bild lionized the Republican as "the War Hero" and running mate Sarah Palin as "the Beautiful Unknown."

In Berlin, Republicans Abroad organized a "November Surprise Election Party" to watch live "how the Republican ticket McCain/Palin comes from behind and leaves the liberal elite media in Europe and the United States puzzled."

British Prime Minister Gordon Brown clung to convention by refusing to say which candidate he wants to see win. Regardless of the outcome, he told Al-Arabiya television while on a tour of the Gulf, "history has been made in this campaign."

London Mayor Boris Johnson, a Conservative, felt less constrained about rooting for the liberal Obama.

"For those who have become disenchanted with America, including many Americans, (Obama) offers the hope of reigniting the love affair," he said.

And other Europeans made much of Obama's ethnicity. "It's a sort of pardon of America for its slave past," said Alain Barret, a bank teller in Paris. "It lets America turn an important page in its history."

"It would be fantastic to have a non-white president," added Letisha Brown, a Londoner.

In Baghdad, Mohammed al-Tamimi said he didn't think U.S. policy on Iraq would change. Even so, "we hope that the new American president will open a new page with our country."

Kenyans made their allegiances clear: Scores packed churches on Tuesday to pray for Obama, whose late father was born in the East African country, and hailed the candidate - himself born in Hawaii - as a "son of the soil."

"Tonight we are not going to sleep," said Valentine Wambi, 23, a student at the University of Nairobi. "It will be celebrations throughout."

Kenyans believe an Obama victory wouldn't change their lives much, but that hasn't stopped them from splashing his picture on minibuses and selling T-shirts with his name and likeness. Kenyans were planning to gather around radios and TV sets starting Tuesday night as the results come in.

"We will feast if Obama wins," said Robert Rutaro, a university president in neighbouring Uganda. "We will celebrate by marching on the streets of Kampala and hold a big party later on."

In the sleepy Japanese coastal town of Obama - which translates as "little beach" - images of him adorned banners along a main shopping street, and preparations for an election day victory party were in full swing.

Election fever also ran high in Vietnam, where McCain was held as a prisoner of war for more than five years after being shot down in Hanoi during a 1967 bombing run.

"He's patriotic," said Le Lan Anh, a Vietnamese novelist and real estate tycoon. "As a soldier, he came here to destroy my country, but I admire his dignity."

© The Canadian Press, 2008

[apocolips31]

And other Europeans made much of Obama's ethnicity. "It's a sort of pardon of America for its slave past," said Alain Barret, a bank teller in Paris. "It lets America turn an important page in its history."

"It would be fantastic to have a non-white president," added Letisha Brown, a Londoner.



Like whites that are alive today owe blacks anything. Did I have slaves? My parents have slaves? My grand parents have slaves? My great grand parents have slaves? How far back are we going to go? If we are going to go back hundreds of years how about we start telling blacks to make amends for what their ancestors did to each other. I hate when someone plays the we owe them something card. It is just bullshit. I am not racist in any way and have family that is half black namely my nieces. It just pisses me off when someone actually thinks this is a reason to vote for Obama and believe me I know many who are doing it just for that.

[Gatekeeper777]

If the world could vote to elect a president/leader i would run, but then again the media would only show you 2 choices out of 7 billions theirs and not yours.

[dragonrider]

I think Obama will have a more co-operative and respectful foreign policy than Bush, and that is part of what the world is responding to. And there are many issues that matter a lot to a lot of the world (and also matter to a LOT of Americans) that Bush ignored and Obama will not ignore. One example is Global Climate Change --- it matters a lot to the rest of the world and also to a lot of Americans, but Bush refused to be a part of the global effort to stop it. That cost us a lot of credibility and respect. When the whole world comes together on an issue, and we refuse to be a part of the solution, it makes us small and petty --- we should be involved.

I don't think the world hates America, although they may hate particular adminsitrations and policies. I think much of the world ADMIRES America or at least admires its IDEALS. I think much of the so-called "hatred" of the last few years has had a lot to do with disillusionment and disappointment with America as we have failed to live up to our own ideals. Our own elections have not been as "clean" as they should be, so we lose credibility as a champion of Democracy. We arrogantly invaded another country that did not attack us, and to a lot of the world it looks like we did it to steal their resources, so we lose credibility as a champion of international justice. We tortured prisoners, so we lose credibility as a champion of human rights. We diminished our own rights against illegal wiretaps and searches, so we lose credibility as a champion of individual liberty. This current election has had an undertone of racism and xenophobia, so we lose credibility as a champion of equal rights and freedom of religion. Our economy is falling apart due to acts of greed and corruption, and it's dragging down the world economy with it, so we lose credibility as a champion of sound economic practices and a engine of the world's economy.

I think a lot of the world only "hates" us the way fans turn on a sports hero when they are found to be a cheater or in some other way weaker than their reputation. Personally, I think if we elect Obama, it will go a long way to restore the world's faith that we actually do practice our ideals.

[dragonrider]

And other Europeans made much of Obama's ethnicity. "It's a sort of pardon of America for its slave past," said Alain Barret, a bank teller in Paris. "It lets America turn an important page in its history."

"It would be fantastic to have a non-white president," added Letisha Brown, a Londoner.


Like whites that are alive today owe blacks anything. Did I have slaves? My parents have slaves? My grand parents have slaves? My great grand parents have slaves? How far back are we going to go? If we are going to go back hundreds of years how about we start telling blacks to make amends for what their ancestors did to each other. I hate when someone plays the we owe them something card. It is just bullshit. I am not racist in any way and have family that is half black namely my nieces. It just pisses me off when someone actually thinks this is a reason to vote for Obama and believe me I know many who are doing it just for that.

I don't think that is what the quote is really about. It's not that America OWES blacks a president. It's the idea that we SAY we are a nation of equal rights, but no one but white people have ever won the presidency. Having a black president would show that we have moved beyond that. So it's not about voting for him BECAUSE he is black --- no one OWES him the presidency for being black. But if he can win the presidency on his merits DESPITE the fact that he is black, it would show the world (and ourselves) that we are past the time when we let race hold a deserving person back in this country.

It would be stupid to vote FOR him because he is black. It would also be stupid to vote AGAINST him because he is black. I am voting for him becasue of his policies, character and temperment. The fact that he is a black man is totally beside the point. But the fact that the person I like for policies, character and temperment also happens to be a black man is something I am very happy about because I think it is time America fulfilled its promise to ALL of its citizens. It is a turning point.

[flyingimam]

I don't think that is what the quote is really about. It's not that America OWES blacks a president. It's the idea that we SAY we are a nation of equal rights, but no one but white people have ever won the presidency. Having a black president would show that we have moved beyond that. So it's not about voting for him BECAUSE he is black --- no one OWES him the presidency for being black. But if he can win the presidency on his merits DESPITE the fact that he is black, it would show the world (and ourselves) that we are past the time when we let race hold a deserving person back in this country.

It would be stupid to vote FOR him because he is black. It would also be stupid to vote AGAINST him because he is black. I am voting for him becasue of his policies, character and temperment. The fact that he is a black man is totally beside the point. But the fact that the person I like for policies, character and temperment also happens to be a black man is something I am very happy about because I think it is time America fulfilled its promise to ALL of its citizens. It is a turning point.

thank you!!! excellent points

[apocolips31]

I think what the person meant is loud and clear.

"It's a sort of pardon of America for its slave past"

[dragonrider]

I think what the person meant is loud and clear.

"It's a sort of pardon of America for its slave past"

Read it show you want, but I stand by my point.

And regardless of what this person meant, you and I AGREE that no one should vote for Obama with the idea that we OWE it to him for being black. Likewise, no one should vote AGAINST him for his race. This is America where "all men are created equal" and a person should rise and fall on their own merits regardless of race. If we elect Obama, believe me, it will be because of his merits, not because of his race.

[apocolips31]

I agree we should elect someone on their merits, but their are always going to be those that don't because of racism or reverse racism.

[maladroit]

NOBODY is voting for obama because they want to be forgiven for slavery...the first black president must be associated with the racial history of the united states...it's an unavoidable observation, but it's still just an observation

anyway, obama's a white guy, right? his ancestors probably owned slaves so obama owes himself a big fat apology...ha!

[IAmKowalski]

it shows over 80% of americans voting for barack obama

that can't be right!

No, that makes perfect sense - it is a self selecting group that takes the poll. In the case of Americans, it is the subset that acknowledges that the rest of the world exists. Obviously this is going to be a higher correlation with Obama voters than McCain voters. Think about it, how many McCain voters would even go to the website or care about the results?

[dragonrider]

anyway, obama's a white guy, right? his ancestors probably owned slaves so obama owes himself a big fat apology...ha!

Ha ha! Owes himself an apology!

Jon Stewart asked Obama if he is just SAYING he is for himself for political correctness, but when he gets in the privacy of the voting booth, his white half will just be unable to bring itself to vote for his black half! Ha ha!

[dragonrider]

I cast my vote just now for Obama --- did it for myself, my country, and on behalf of the world. I want to see this country respected again.

[apocolips31]

Good glad to see people voting no matter which way they vote. I voted for McCain for the same reasons.

[Breukelen advocaat]

NOBODY is voting for obama because they want to be forgiven for slavery...the first black president must be associated with the racial history of the united states...it's an unavoidable observation, but it's still just an observation

anyway, obama's a white guy, right? his ancestors probably owned slaves so obama owes himself a big fat apology...ha!
Records show that some of Obama's maternal white ancestors were slaveholders. Since his father was Kenyan, he is not the descendant of African slaves in America and therefore does not owe himself an apology.

[dragonrider]

Good glad to see people voting no matter which way they vote. I voted for McCain for the same reasons.

I feel the same way. Good on you for voting!

And no matter how this election goes, I think we are getting a better president than the one we are getting rid of.

[maladroit]

huh? if your mom's ancestors were slaveowners it's ok but if your dad's ancestors were slaveowners it's bad? cool! my relatives on my mother's side did some nasty stuff and now i don't have to feel guilty anymore...too bad for my cousins - they're going straight to hell!

[Breukelen advocaat]

huh? if your mom's ancestors were slaveowners it's ok but if your dad's ancestors were slaveowners it's bad? cool! my relatives on my mother's side did some nasty stuff and now i don't have to feel guilty anymore...too bad for my cousins - they're going straight to hell!
I did not mean that it mattered whether the slaveholders were from his mother's ancestry, or his father's. In Obama's case, he has no known ancestors that were slaves - from either side. I was just giving the facts concerning his ancestry - it could just as well have been that his mother was Black and from another counry, and his father an American descendant of slaveholders. Some people have slaves/slaveholders on both sides, all kind of combinations, or neither. In any case, Obama does not owe himself an "apology". :)

[maladroit]

oops sorry i didn't get the no-slaves-from-kenya premise

dammit that means i'm still going to hell! WAH!!

[maladroit]

the BBC news channel is reporting results ahead of CNN...i am amazed that mccain has 49% of the popular vote so far (6:49PST)...mccain is doing much better than i thought he would

[apocolips31]

That is the Bradley effect right there.

[dragonrider]

the BBC news channel is reporting results ahead of CNN...i am amazed that mccain has 49% of the popular vote so far (6:49PST)...mccain is doing much better than i thought he would


That is the Bradley effect right there.

Not enough "Bradley effect" to win it for McCain though. They called it for Obama about 4 hours ago. At that point he had over 338 Electoral votes wiht four states not yet called. It was close in the popular vote, but a landslide in the Electoral votes, which is close to what the polls have been saying for a long time --- so the "Bradley effect" was barely in effect at all.

[apocolips31]

Not necessarily true, how do you know it wasn't a combination of the Bradley effect or reverse Bradley effect and they merely canceled each other out. Not to mention how far ahead Obama was in polls and some of those votes swung McCain's way.

[RedLocks]

looks liek it was a landslide victory for McCain in.... Niue? 1 vote lol

[tomm01]

Hm, didnt read the ENTIRE thread, but responding to the why the world hates America thing....

I am Australian and almost every knowledgeable person I know hates America mainly because of Bush.
And also because of all the mass amounts of secrecy and Government cover-ups n whatnot.
I'm not talking about Area 51 and such but the way the Government just tried to hide everything from their people until it finally gets leaked and they come up with some bullshit transparent excuse. The trouble is most Americans (NOT ALL) don't even realise that it's complete bullshit. Example. The Bush Government tried to convince (and succeeded) the American public that Saddam Hussein had something to do with the attacks on 9/11 through clever(?) manipulation.

The fact that most Americans just take whatever the Government says for granted is rather annoying. But it's mainly just the fact that the politicians take for granted that Americans are so gullible.

Another reason is that I have to spell realise with a 'z' instead of an 's' if I don't want underlines all over my work. LOL, jk, but seriously....

Americans think they rule the world, or ARE the world. Again I'm not talking about all of you but a LOT!
We didn't think Obama should be President to ruin your country further lol but you're right that it was partly for our own interests.
WE want this bullshit war to stop!
Whatever America does England and Australia will follow. No matter what it is. Obama seems a lot less inclined towards pointless war and thus we will stop having to put our troops and resources into another countries bullshit.
Of course this is our politicians fault as well, but if America was smarter it wouldn't matter. In other words it's easier to fix one place than every other place.

Also you guys were talking about slaves and all that shit and having to feel guilty about it. Why? It doesn't matter, you didn't do anything, Obama didn't do anything. Why should you have to feel guilty because, in the words of Ben Folds I think 'my great great great great grandad made someones great great great great grandaddy slaves'
Something like that lol.

Anyway, dunno if you can take another reality check but when you come to other countries as tourists, you are FUCKING loud. It just makes you all seem ignorant and oblivious to any other persons existence but yours.

That's enough though, for now. lol

[flyingimam]

Not necessarily true, how do you know it wasn't a combination of the Bradley effect or reverse Bradley effect and they merely canceled each other out. Not to mention how far ahead Obama was in polls and some of those votes swung McCain's way.

I think polls were quite accurate this time around, obama won by more than 5% leverage in popular vote, but i give it to ya about bradley effect

and about polls on electoral votes, well obama beat the most optimistic electoral vote poll (RCP) by almost 30 votes!!! 311 was the number on their site few days b4 the election, reduced to 278 solid on election eve, he won like 340

EDIT: make that 350 and 53% to 46% on popular vote, lets see 7% ahead. that would confirm a 9-10% leverage in polls with 2-3% error margin on most polls

[apocolips31]

MOST Americans are gullible and stupid? MOST Americans don't know what is going on and only think of themselves? Well MOST Americans just voted for Obama. Bet you feel dumb right about now....