8 year old tries Uzi @ gun show, shoots self in the head [Archive] - Green Grass Forums

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flyingimam

10-27-2008, 03:48 PM

Boy dies after accidentally shooting himself with Uzi submachine gun

By Jessica Fargen
Monday, October 27, 2008 - Updated 48m ago

The federal ATF is expected in Westfield today to aid local police in investigating the accidental death of an 8-year-old boy who was killed yesterday after firing an Uzi submachine gun while attending a gun show.

The boy, identified as Christopher Bizilj, was firing the Uzi when he lost control, forcing it upwards and back, causing him to shoot himself in the head, said Westfield Police Lt. Hipolito Nunez. Bizilj of Ashford, Conn., was under the supervision of a certified instructor at the gun expo at the Westfield Sportmanâ??s Club when he was shot.

The annual machine gun show is advertised as a free-for-all for gun enthusiasts, and has created discord among some club members, said longtime club member Bob Greenleaf.

â??To let an 8-year-old boy fire an Uzi is the height of stupidity,â? said Greenleaf.

Greenleaf, a member of the club for 44 years, was so opposed to the annual machine gun shoot that he resigned from the clubâ??s board of directors four years ago.

An ad for the show posted on the Sportmanâ??s Club Web site boasts: â??No age limit or licenses required to shoot machine guns, handguns, rifles or shotguns!!!â?

â??You will be accompanied to the firing line with a certified instructor to guide you, But You Are In Control - Full Auto Rock And Roll.â?

The annual expo is run by a group called C.O.P. Firearms and Training Co., based in Amherst. The head of that group is Pelham Police Chief Ed Fleury, Greenleaf said. Fleury could not be reached.

Pelham Police Lt. Gary Thomann, who answered the phone today at the police station, said his chief would have no comment.

â??Heâ??s not talking about it,â? Thomann said.

He said Fleury will be out for the remainder of the week.

Nunez said the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms and Explosives is expected today to aid in the investigation.

No charges have been filed in connection with the boyâ??s death, he said.

â??We are still researching the law,â? he said.

The Office of Hampden District Attorney William Bennett is also investigating.

The annual show has become extremely popular, Greenleaf said.

An event listing on the clubâ??s Web site reads: â??Itâ??s all legal and fun - No permits or licenses required !!!!â?

Anyone under 16 was admitted for free. Available targets were to include pumpkins, vehicles and â??other fun stuff we canâ??t print here!!!!!â? according to the clubâ??s Web site.

Boy dies after accidentally shooting himself with Uzi submachine gun - BostonHerald.com (http://news.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view.bg?articleid=1128071&srvc=home&position=emailed)
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there is something wrong with letting an 8 year old to freely use and try "live" ammunition.

U know, i don't find such a situation fun at all, i rather think its quite scary, i mean just imagine he could have killed or injured others as well had he resisted the backlash of the gun a little more, veering it to sides and then ending up killing himself.

shit, accidents happen for the best trained people in this field, a kid? an Uzi? oh no, u must be high or drunk in a real messed up way to let these 2 mix

I remember as a kid I loved throwing them flat small rocks that would jump multiple times on surface of water when throw at the right angle, but once i miscalculated and totally hit my brother in the head with it cuz i had gotten too excited!!!!

this is just crazy, no gun control, ok fine, but u dont let a freakin 8 year old play with matches n fire, let alone AN UZI MACHINE GUN

as sad as this story is, i think the people who hosted the show and people who were in charge of the boy totally deserve this as a lesson to be learned!

full auto rock n roll, right!...
reality check!

stinkyattic

10-27-2008, 03:58 PM

I'm ashamed that representatives of my local police departments were either in attendance or involved with the show. Shame, shame, shame on them. There is no reason in the WORLD good enough for an 8 year old to be handed a loaded automatic or semi-automatic weapon, in the same way one would not let a little kid drive the 1000cc GSXR- you give them a small dirt bike to learn on! Young kids should always learn on a weapon appropriate to their age, strength, prior firearms experience, and maturity. The 8 year old gets a BB gun. PERIOD. A small child is neither strong nor mature enough to handle a weapon with so much power. Children spook easily, and people get hurt. This is absolutely abhorrent.

TheNugget

10-27-2008, 05:22 PM

This is the result of misinterpreting the second amendment. Guns are not for fun, they're for killing.

Breukelen advocaat

10-27-2008, 05:42 PM

According to many gun enthusiasts, citizens have the right to own as many guns that they desire, of all types including automatic combat weapons, with little or no regulation - and they bring up their kids the same way. They will dismiss this incident, while chanting their worn out mantra, "Guns don't kill people, people do."

stinkyattic

10-27-2008, 05:48 PM

flyingimam

10-27-2008, 06:58 PM

That's the kicker to me- In this instance, regulation is a side issue... Basic, simple, responsibility and common sense are the problem.
People using tools for jobs they [the tools] are not intended to perform, or people doing things in which they have no fucking training, kill people. An Uzi is a tool for a very specific purpose, which is waging war on threats to the Israeli State. It is not a toy to be handed around at gun shows. WTF are people thinking!

FACT: If you market a gun show to the lowest common denominator, by advertising it like the damn circus, guess who you get to show up? :rolleyes:

thank u

u know whats more fun and considered an "arm" a grenade and a bazooka. right to arms does not mention what arms nowhere in the constitution, so on that basis people who are enthusiastic about "arms" should love those two things as well (betcha some of them do) but do u see any gun show that hands them out to people to "try" and have fun?

no, cuz the most idiot person can figure out those are highly dangerous weapons that can have drastic casualties and thus obeying their common sense and not just letting some stranger to try them... flamethrowers are non-regulated as well and they are fun to use, guess what? u can hardly find any gun show who will take the risk of putting them up for testing by unlicensed people and if they do its only going to speak to their wisdom.

and we are talking about a minor, not that, a single digit life that ended so needlessly, a lil child!!!

I understand the point that gun enthusiasts have, but come on, there's got to be some common sense, if there is no common sense, the government will feel forced to force the common sense by regulation and thats when things turn to a fiasco

stinkyattic

10-27-2008, 07:21 PM

there's got to be some common sense, if there is no common sense, the government will feel forced to force the common sense by regulation and thats when things turn to a fiasco
^^^Excellent point^^^
If We the People show that we are too fucking dumb to look after ourselves and would prefer that Big Brother do it while we are busy watching TV, it's our own damn fault when we wake up with laws that make Government feel like a clucking mother hen.

The coffee cup I'm holding right now has the notification 'CAUTION: THIS BEVERAGE IS EXTREMELY HOT' circling its base in bright orange letters.
Thank you Dunkin Donuts; I'm too stupid to figure out for myself that I should not pour it down my cleavage, but rather, sip it gingerly until it cools off, as humans have been doing with their beverages since the first cave person made a mug out of a dried gourd and filled it with leaves and hot water!

Reefer Rogue

10-27-2008, 08:54 PM

Damn that sucks, he barely lived life at all, an 8 year old should never be allowed to fire a gun, what absolute morons who encoureged this.

killerweed420

10-27-2008, 09:36 PM

I'm an avid gun owner and use to belong to the nra till they started pissing away all the dues on big fancy new buildings and big fat salaries.
The father and the instructor first off should get the death penalty. They murdered that kid from there stupidity, they deserve to die for it. This is the biggest problem with gun ownership. Its the same with car ownership. Just because you get a license and buy a car or gun it doesn't mean your smart enough to use them responsibly. You can not legislate common sense. You can not violate other peoples civil rights because some mindless idiot pulls a boner. You just have to have the laws that either sends these kind of people away for avery long time or sentence them to death. I am always in favour of the death penalty in cases like this. This wasn't an accident, this was a thought out plan to let the kid shoot the gun.

It really makes me ill to see what people force there kids to do now adays. But how do you legislate stupidity?

420_24/7

10-27-2008, 09:46 PM

FACT: If you market a gun show to the lowest common denominator, by advertising it like the damn circus, guess who you get to show up? :rolleyes:

Can a fact be a question?

FlyGuyOU

10-28-2008, 03:27 PM

Can a fact be a question?

Clearly it can, b/c Stink does NOT fuck up :hippy:

Weedhound

10-28-2008, 03:54 PM

I agree with Stinky but lay the blame even more strongly on the parent.

What NORMAL parent would want their child ANYWHERE NEAR such a weapon, much less "Hey Son, Lets go shoot an automatic machine gun." There is is the problem right there.

The laws are ridiculous of course (allowing a child to handle such a weapon at ALL) and I love Stinskers point that if the human race cannot show common sense (which really seems to be true these days imo....people are getting more and more isolated within their own little worlds) the government will indeed have to do it for us.

Weedhound

10-28-2008, 03:57 PM

And actually in rereading I see that the point was first made by flyingmam.....I apologize but stand by my thought that this IS AN EXCELLENT POINT.

stinkyattic

10-28-2008, 04:00 PM

Breaking news:
The father is a doctor at- GET THIS- an emergency room. A fucking MD! Advanced degree and no common sense.

Esoteric416

10-28-2008, 04:42 PM

I bet if you asked him the father of this kid would tell you all about the respect for firearms that he had instilled in his child. Its funny that he's an MD. People might be suprised how dumb "smart" people can be. I used to work as a stocker for vending machines at a place called Thiokol in Promentory Utah, I'm not suprised that you havent ever heard of it no one has, they make the booster rockets for the space shuttle. If i put outdated sandwiches in the trash next to the machines the guys out there would eat them, these are literally rocket scientists and they would eat outdated food from the trash to save a few bucks.
Meanwhile my father, who is college educated and a very smart guy but no rocket scientist or MD, taught me and my brother proper respect for firearms by the time we were 5 or 6, and wont touch food from the trash. It still gives me pause to look in the barrel of a gun even if I have just taken it apart, and I always check to see if a weapon is loaded even if Im pretty positive that it isnt.

I would be willing to bet that this kid had shot plenty of guns before this happened, but when you fire a full auto weapon for the first time you are suprised (even if someone prepares you for it) at how out of control it feels at first, and to some degree will always feel.
I agree that something should be done with the father and the instructor, something harsh. The instructor is especially to blame because he should have known that an 8 year old wouldnt be able to control an uzi. As stated before those type of guns get away from trained people on occasion.

If gun people would just live by the rule: The second you stop respecting a gun is the second it will kill you. Guns are by-and-large designed to kill people (no offense intended to any pure hunters) they should be treated accordingly.

It seems like this is a problem of arrogance meets just enough ignorance.
Bad times. :(

killerweed420

10-28-2008, 06:06 PM

Breaking news:
The father is a doctor at- GET THIS- an emergency room. A fucking MD! Advanced degree and no common sense.

Its like I've always said about college. Idiot in, idiot out. You can read all the books you want but you're still an idiot. Just an educated one.:jointsmile:

Weedhound

10-28-2008, 06:24 PM

I just popped back on because of what Stinky said....i actually read that he is DIRECTOR of EMERGENCY MEDICINE at a hospital in Conn.

Remind me never to need medical care near his hospital.

The father also stated that he "could not at all understand how something like ths could have happened.." You MUST be kidding.

He also said that his 8 year old son has fired rifles and handguns before but generally Dad avoided letting the family shoot larger weapons. He allowed the Uzi however, becaause it "was a small weapon with little recoil."

He was also standing 10 feet behind his son and reaching FOR HIS CAMERA when the boy fired the fatal shot.

Amazing.

To me this all happened for one reason. One IDIOT parent asked this question "How can I take a war weapon and make it safe and fun for my boy to play with?"

And when parents' are asking questions like that..no matter WHAT their education as they obviously lack ANY common sense.......it's extremely frightening.

MadSativa

10-28-2008, 09:27 PM

"Guns don't kill people, people do."

That makes total sence, this is not bosina or afganistan, kids and automatic wepons dont even belong in the same sentacnce, in any country. It is horrible that kids are made to fight in wars around the globe, why would some one even advertise or offer a kid to "rock and roll " with an automatic wepon. Personaly what they deserve is jail, but more so they should have got shot in the head. I was a young shooter, but never did I ever handel a gun on my own, and at eight I was shooting shotguns and belived I had the capability to shoot a uzi, a Ak, hell even a missel. But no one ever let me, I had to watch while the grown ups did their thing with the big guns. And knowing many certified NRA (only civilian instructors allowed to certify someone in firearms) instructors, I could have sworn their was some sort of one foot rule. As you dont ever get farther than on foot away from the shooter, adult or child. But even more so, to become NRA certified, they go through loads of legale classes, to learn the basic, knowlege of you are responsible for that wepon even when its not in your hands. What idiot thought ...."yeah this 8 year old kid has shot many guns before, heres and uzi, hers a full clip, im sure you play video games , let her rip". Sounds like a bunch of shit to me, in my town we have the same thing, guns are free to shoot kids are free, everyone learns gun saftey, and kids do shoot. But kids with auto matics, I dont think so, also like I said, this is no carnival shooting at ballons, their is supposed to be at least on instructor per shooter if not more. And with kids it is a single shot at a time and usualy the intstructor has one hand on the wepon at all times. I just dont understand how this happend. you have a city with cops who put out a kid war wepon carnival, then you have cops make beliving their some sort of instructors, then the father of some kid says "let her rip son". He was fumbling for the kids you tube ,shot when the head shot happend. If you ask me this is part of the problem with the entire country at what point does some one step up and say , hey watch your kid, hey your kid has a fukin UZI in his hand, hey you moron are gonna kill eachother.. this could have been avoided months hell years ago when some one suggested , "lets advertise kids free and no age limit on all the automatics". Here we have had hunters saftey mandatory in school at the 6th grade level for at least 50 years, but even so they dont shoot live fire any more, and they definitly dont shoot automatic wepons in class. The biggest thing that is taught in these classes is, "this is a gun, it destroys things, this is the dangerous end, dont handel a gun especialy if you have never handeld it before, never shoot with out supervison, But mostly, if you see a gun dont touch it and tell a grown up you found or see a gun"!!! At what point did that turn into lets let em "rock and roll", did they forget things like the mass school shootings, or the high juvenile suicide rate, I dont think they did, so what was their objective in this whole let the kids use the killing instraments we have? Whats next the teachings of jehad and how to strap bombs on your back?? I know it sounds strange but , think about it ...........what was their objective,?? well show those kids its not like playing video games, well they proved that to one. They also proved their is no justice their , they have no bussiness being in charge of anything in a dangerouse nature, and most of all they showed, mistakes happen when you give a 8 year old a UZI! I thought everyone knew that last one, I would think it would be common sence.

imagoober

10-28-2008, 09:53 PM

Its to bad that a error in judgment, ended up costing a boy his life. It does happen. As for jail or life in jail i think is wrong it its self, humans make mistakes horrible ones at that and now the father is going to have to live with that for the rest of his life. Im sure if life in jail of the if the father could give his life for his son he would. I think know is the time for them to stop something like this from happening again. Not punishment and point fingers.

veggii

10-28-2008, 10:01 PM

^^^Excellent point^^^

The coffee cup I'm holding right now has the notification 'CAUTION: THIS BEVERAGE IS EXTREMELY HOT' circling its base in bright orange letters.
Thank you Dunkin Donuts; I'm too stupid to figure out for myself that I should not pour it down my cleavage, but rather, sip it gingerly until it cools off, as humans have been doing with their beverages since the first cave person made a mug out of a dried gourd and filled it with leaves and hot water!

Help I've fallen on the ground laughing hysterically and can't get up! rofl:thumbsup:

MadSativa

10-28-2008, 10:06 PM

^^ not me punishment has always been swift for me, from police, life, hell the world. You have to be accountable for your actions, the father yes his punishment is just started . but those who were in charge, they need to pay, and not with money, a lawsuit to help the boys family is not realy gonna help. I cant leave the house with out thinkng what actions that imples (thats right just leavng the house has reprocutions, but so does staying at home) what precautions I have to implement in the day. theri should be no learning from this, they should have already known.

imagoober

10-28-2008, 10:28 PM

You crawl before you walk. You learn from you mistakes. What good is a doctor going to do in prison?

flyingimam

10-28-2008, 11:18 PM

You crawl before you walk. You learn from you mistakes. What good is a doctor going to do in prison?

waste my money and not learn shit, there is death penalty for people like him

or if he actually learns something from this, he will put his life or part of it towards spreading the lesson he learned:

Kids & Uzis ---> someone's gonna die

All the hunting and gun loving issues aside, we are talking about a semi-automatic weapon with no good use in any of the 2 fields mentioned. this is merely a self-defense or attack weapon designed for human altercations

wtf should an 8 year old have to do with it? i have no idea.

^^ not me punishment has always been swift for me, from police, life, hell the world. You have to be accountable for your actions, the father yes his punishment is just started . but those who were in charge, they need to pay, and not with money, a lawsuit to help the boys family is not realy gonna help. I cant leave the house with out thinkng what actions that imples (thats right just leavng the house has reprocutions, but so does staying at home) what precautions I have to implement in the day. theri should be no learning from this, they should have already known.

Go ahead, try to push the law on top law-mobb boss, the guy hosting the show with his gun organization is a POLICE CHIEF

i think only DA and judges are more powerful than him in the hierarchy of local officials

imagoober

10-29-2008, 12:21 AM

"People like him" what idiots, shit if well killed all the idiots in this world there wouldnt be anyone left. Buy the way an Uzi is a fully automatic weapon! Thats why the recoil forced the gun up shooting himself. I cant stand most people because there stupid but i cant see killing or imprisoning him.

psychocat

10-29-2008, 12:57 AM

Breukelen advocaat

10-29-2008, 01:58 AM

IMO anyone who allows such a young kid to even hold an Uzi is devoid of any common sense .
The fact that it was legal is beyond my understanding.

What next ?

Five year olds with grenade launchers.... ? :eek:
Yes. Maybe a bazooka and flame thrower would be nice additions to the toy box as well. ;)

Cartoonist Al Capp, of Li'l Abner fame, once drew a cartoon of a kid ordering a working rifle, through the mail, which was cheaper than a toy one.

stinkyattic

10-29-2008, 12:59 PM

psychocat

10-29-2008, 03:24 PM

Breaking news:
There is a passage in the state firearms regulations that prohibits furnishing an automatic weapon to a minor.
Funny... the 'experts' putting on the show didn't see that...
Depending on the interpretation of that passage, charges may be filed.

Story from MassLive:
Accidental machine gun death of 8-year-old at Westfield gun show now subject of criminal investigation - MassLive.com (http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2008/10/accidental_machine_gun_death_o.html?category=Crime +category=Westfield)

I was suprised that it was legal for just anyone to use an automatic weapon at this type of show, I may be a little paranoid but there are very few people I would trust with such a weapon.
I am a tad ignorant of how these shows work , do you have to have a permit to use the weapons or can just anyone go there and try out the latest kit ?
What the hell would you do if one of the customers suddenly decided to thin out the crowd ?
To me it seems a very bizarre scenario to be selling guns like the local womans group would sell fresh baked cakes.

I know I may get some stick for this next comment but that's life......
Maybe the kids father is a failed Darwin award winner , letting his kids shoot themselves is a form of retro-active contraception that prevents his moronis genes from being passed on.

stinkyattic

10-29-2008, 03:45 PM

Not only did the show not require attendees to hold ANY type of permit, but that was included in the flyers for the event, which read like a fucking circus announcement:
From AP coverage of the accident:"An advertisement said it would include machine gun demonstrations and rentals and free handgun lessons.
"It's all legal & fun â?? No permits or licenses required!!!!" reads the ad, posted on the club's Web site.
"You will be accompanied to the firing line with a Certified Instructor to guide you. But You Are In Control â?? "FULL AUTO ROCK & ROLL," the ad said.
The ad also said children under 16 would be admitted free, and both adults and children were offered free .22-caliber pistol and rifle shooting."

Full auto rock-n-roll? You have GOT to be kidding me. Fun for the whole family!

Dutch Pimp

10-29-2008, 03:47 PM

I know I may get some stick for this next comment but that's life......
Maybe the kids father is a failed Darwin award winner , letting his kids shoot themselves is a form of retro-active contraception that prevents his moronis genes from being passed on.

In nature...it's called "thinning the herd".

WhiskeyTango

10-29-2008, 03:53 PM

Survival of the fittest?...lol

WOW...this is insane. I cant believe this is something recent. Sounds like a movie clip from the 70s...lol
Seriously though? Is said med dad getting charged with neglect? I hope so. I was taught at a pretty young age about guns, and shot my first gun at 6. I have never shot anyone accidentally.(only on purpose, like in Bosnia, at fucking war) This is sad sad shit that makes you fully understand gun laws. I may disagree with certain aspects of gun laws, but shit like this makes me sick, and unfortunately agree with the fact that we need MORE stringent laws on guns.
:joint1:

WhiskeyTango

10-29-2008, 04:16 PM

flyingimam

10-29-2008, 04:22 PM

Damn well better be filed. That "father" needs to be held accountable.

Along with the bastard POLICE CHIEF hosting this circus, donno about the instructor though

if it was up to me, some sort of charge would be filed for anyone knowingly participating in facilitation of such an event the way it went

Stoner Shadow Wolf

10-29-2008, 05:53 PM

personally taking responsibility for oneself goes a long way.

This is a shining example of what happens when we leave our responsibilities in the hands of others.

kid is a victim of circumstances, but got what he deserved. but it is not completely his fault that it happened. the fault lies on the father for not teaching his son better, the fault lies on the person who was supposed to be supervising things for not staiding there and holding the gun FOR the kid... actually the fault lies mostly here. i mean what kind f stupid fuck lets a SMALL CHILD hold an automatic weapon of ANY kind?!?

seriously, that's stupid.

i fel a mix of disdain toward and for the child though... i cant grieve for him, but i cant laugh at him either.

clubtown

10-29-2008, 05:56 PM

whats wrong with a toy car @ 8 years old poor little fella......R.I.P.

theforthdrive

10-29-2008, 10:04 PM

This is absolutely abhorrent.

Very nice! had to look that one up!

The father also stated that he "could not at all understand how something like this could have happened.." You MUST be kidding.

I hear this often when a child dies. I dont get it either. I had a boss that once told me how her child had drown in a 5 gal paint bucket. Sad! but once I got to know her and saw how she was with her other kids. It wasnt hard to figure out. yeah, sad shit, but Im sure she said this some crap.... how did this happen, why me.... well, poor choices!