i cant get seeds to grow?

[TheXFactor]

humidity 35-60%
temp70-75
soil, happy frog
nursery water
100watt CFL blue spectrum
400watt mh

seedlings have been under MH from beginning of life... im now using a seperate space with a cfl to try and get them going.

i also purchased some miracle grow seedling mix but i havent tried it yet.. im using little 2-3inch dixicups.

they have 2 distinct looking problems, one strain hawaiiXhaze looks extremely deficient in nit. but i cant fert it... its almost 2 months old, 5 inches tall on its 3rd node but not a single leaf is fully grown.

the other are some female seeds a friend gave me... on looks okay but the leaves are curling down. BTW these 2 fem are still working on their 2nd node. at 2-3 weeks. both are curling to the ground,but one is kinda bluish, with doark blotches that die and dry and become brittle. this has happend on others and it cloesly resembles a Phosphorus deficency but they're soooo young how can this be.... what is a fool proof method to use if it is the soil or the water.

what type of bottled water can u not go wrong with... what kind of soil can u not go wrong with, what kind of light can u not go wrong with,,


ive grown many plants outdoors, using soil i just found lying around in the shed, with great results, flooding/animals being the only problem?


whos got input.

[BigGreen21]

http://boards.cannabis.com/plant-problems/127058-troubleshooting-form-yay-you-know-you-wanted-one.html

Just incase ya don't wanna copy paste:


H=Answer if you grow hydro or aero
C=Answer if you grow coco
S=Answer if you grow traditional soil
L=Answer if you grow soilless other than coco (Promix, Hyponex, SunshineMix)
R=Answer if you grow in RockWool
T=Answer if you grow in HydroTon
D=Answer if you run any type of automatic drip system, including into soil or soilless
E= EVERYONE needs to answer lol!


E-indoor or outdoor
E-soil, soilless, coco, aero, or hydroponic
E-specific medium
CSL-Soil type/brand
HCL-Hydro/aero/soilless system type
SCL-Anything you have added to the soil
SCLR-Soil or slab runoff pH
E-Water source
E-Source water pH
HRT-Source water EC (if hydro)
E-Age of plant
E-Type of fertilizer
E-Rate of application (if hydro, this is your PPM number, preferably after each component is added)
E-Lighting source and distance from plant
E-Air temperature (both day and night if you are running a dark period)
HD-Reservoir temperature
E-Air % Relative humidity
E-Lighting schedule
E-Type of ventilation your room has
TR-Did you pre-soak your media in pH corrected solution?

And some pics might help.

[Dutch Pimp]

im using little 2-3inch dixicups.


dixiecups are paper...I assume you mean plastic cups...16oz or bigger?..:wtf:


its almost 2 months old, 5 inches tall on its 3rd node but not a single leaf is fully grown.


what size pot now?

[Treetops]

Post pics so we can see....I for one would love to see it....
Thanks,
Treetops :stoned:

[TheXFactor]

biggreen... ty for the troubleshoot but i believe i gave u all the needed info already... im not new to this so i understand whats important to be able to diagnose..... im now a little disenfranchized with starting seedlings, and if things dont seem to grow well in the first three weeks im now at the point where i'll just toss the plants, as its just not worth it for me to try and nurse it bak to health when i could start a new seed and it should theoretically surpass the growth of the stunted stressed seedlings within days.

so if you could all answer my questions this thread would benefit me a little more than playing politics like washington... sorry if i sound pissed but i am, my kid broke a really nice pipe of mine today, the world messed up! and people just never change.... so no offence to anyone, i appreciate your wanting to help, so i'll try again...

Will miracle grow seedling mix work with no problems?
What kind of bottled water can i use that i know i can trust and will work?
What kind of grow container should i be using... yes i used paper dixicups. is this problematic?

What kind of lighting can i not go wrong.... i have 100w CFL with 6500k. also a 400w mh and a 1000wHPS(which i have not used at all yet, i hope i will eventually but i need to get seeds growing first.

look through my previous thread from my previous attempts... i took some pictures but i wont be able to get them posted for a few day or until my gf installs the rigth software to upload them.

http://boards.cannabis.com/plant-problems/163050-yellow-purple-grey-seedling.html

[TheXFactor]

dixiecups are paper...I assume you mean plastic cups...16oz or bigger?..:wtf:




what size pot now?

please dont assume, we all know happens when we do... u make an ASS out of U and ME

b/c u r wrong and yes i mean small paper dixicups.

the oldest ones were planted diretly into 6 inch pots. and never took hold... i think the happyfrog soil might be too heavy or its too wholesome and hasnt broke down enough. but its sussposed to grow tons of microbials and shit like that. Thats why im considering the miracle grow seedling mix which i think is much more peat, and perlite. and some other small amount ingredients. very basic.

so if anyone want to criticize how much of an A-hole i am, have fun, theres plenty to shoot at.. but if you want to help, i'll appreciate it very much.

[TheXFactor]

heres an idea i had but i dont want to bring any pests or anything of that nature into my grow area. is go to HD and find an oregano plant, or even a few, and check out the soils, the water and the air im working with, because maybe im crazy but i dont see anyreason as to why my plants keep dying..

[bluntwiz]

i dont think you will get any answers with that kind of attitude.
oh and btw, if you are not new to the game, then how come your seedlings keep dying on you?

enough said.

[Rusty Trichome]

so if anyone want to criticize how much of an A-hole i am, have fun, theres plenty to shoot at..

Ahh...I think I found your problem...

... ty for the troubleshoot but i believe i gave u all the needed info already... im not new to this so i understand whats important to be able to diagnose.

Seems to me that you could possibly be suffering from the most common plant ailment in the cannabis gardeners garden...optical rectitis. (having ones head so far up his ass, all he can see is his own shit)

So you are having problems with your grow, and you come here and ask us why. When given a simple task to help us help you, you go all bitchy on us. There is a valid reason you were asked to fill out the form. It's because too many "experienced" growers come in claiming they know their shit, when in reality they are clueless, and have fucked-up their garden.
If you want continued help here, likely it's best not to pretend you know more than you really know. Keep in mind...it's not our meds in jeopardy...it's yours.

Just fill-out the form, and an experienced gardener might be with you shortly.

In the mean time, transplant into larger pots with fresh potting mix. When slipping the first one out of it's cup...check the roots. If they're rootbound...that's your problem. If not...who knows? Your info is limited.

Also, I am quite certain the Happy Frog isn't your problem, it's top of the line shit. As with any medium, nute solution, feeding schedule...you learn to adapt with what you've got.

[stinkyattic]

There are many pieces of information that are on the form that you have not given.
I don't want to re-type the form so I'm not going to list them.

Just fill it out. I feel like I am having deja vu in this thread...

[TheXFactor]

sorry all for being rude and an asshole.

without sounding conceded my growing experience is not limited, just to the indoors.. i worked on a vegtable/flower farm/ some rich dudes personal property, but was guided by U of W horticultualist, nice smart guy and i learned alot... but prior and after that i had spent day in day out on OG, thats where my interest was sparked, maybe 3-5 yrs ago.


and in that time i read every FAQ, every troubleshooting guide, ive grown plants and harvested(cannabis) i ran into problems but also solved them.

i havent been involved with growing or literature for about a year or so, ive read almost every link and thread here in the last month or 2 ive also read, indoor growing and hydro by george van pattern.. ive posted my ow n threads with pictures and everything and i am embarassed that i posted a thread how do u start ur seeds/seedlings.

Stinky, i repotted 3 last night, but added fresh MG seedling mix... The roots looked healthy but thin. were white, with the little hairs, and had made their way to the bottom of the cup, but they did were just very fine and few.

now i have 3 sprouted seeds buried under a quater inch of soil MG seedling mix. a lot of peat. some perlite and vermiculite. watered well till a few drips of water come out... the same as i have done in the past... ive had no problem germinating and sprouting, its just right after they sprout and begin growing they stop, change colors some go light but others mainly have a red stem, blue vein on the leaves, then curl under, and get big blotches on 2/3 of the leaf and then growing pretty much stops.

E-indoor
E-soil,
E-specific medium dixi cup 3" and others are in 6 inch round pots with plenty of air holes.
CSL-Soil type/brand mg seedling mix, and other are happy frog.

SCL-Anything you have added to the soil, ph 6.3-6.6 water
SCLR-Soil
E-Water source - nursey water
E-Source water pH 6.3-6.6

E-2 weeks, 3 weeks, and 6 weeks.
E-Type of fertilizer... none
E-Lighting source and distance from plant the youngest are under 65 w cfl 6500k at about 3-5inches, and 3 others are under a MH 400W at 24 inches
E-72-75
HD-Reservoir temperature do not know
E-Air % Relative humidity 50%
E-Lighting schedule cfl is on 24hr mh is on 18/6
E-Type of ventilation your room has fan pulling air in, from one flange and in from another, no air filter set up, and a occilating fan on the pots.
TR-Did you pre-soak your media in pH corrected solution? no.

[bluntwiz]

I would personnally not use MG soil.. heard too many bad things about it.
maybe try changing up your soil?

good luck anyway =)

[Rusty Trichome]

Thin white growing tips are a good sign. Means those particular roots are healthy. Mushy spots with brown/black tips is a bad thing, tho.

A few things I see right off the bat...
WTF is nursery water, and what's wrong with your tap water?
Do you have a way to raise the ph a tad...? I keep mine at 6.6 to 6.8 unless run-off dictates I adjust.
Why haven't you given any ferts yet? I'm pretty sure MG seedling mix has no nutes. Scotts Canada Home: Miracle-Gro�® Seed Starting Potting Mix (http://www.scottscanada.ca/index.cfm/event/ProductGuide.product/documentId/F0838B78D39F7485B17F5A94DA9479E2)

When the leaves get 'splotches' on 'em, what color are the leaves and splotches? If the leaves are yellow-green, or just yellow, with greyish blotches...it's likely overwatering (root damage/root rot) or funky ph.
Any chance you can check run-off ph, to see what the soil is doing to your ph? If the soil is fresh, unused, and you haven't added additional nutes, it shouldn't affect the ph this soon.

Do you spray the plants? If so, why? With what? How often?

When you do start using nutes, when do you start, what kind(s) do you use for veg, and at what dilution?
Lighting: could be a tad closer. But keep in mind, the closer the lights, the more diligent you'll have to be with soil moisture. Especially with the smaller pots and cups. Which is kinda good anyways. Helps dry-out all of the root zones prior to it's next watering.



I would personnally not use MG soil.. heard too many bad things about it.
maybe try changing up your soil?
good luck anyway =)

Hey blunt...you've written this statement before, and I comment about it every time I see it. Have you ever grown cannabis with the stuff...? I have. I started-out using it years ago when I had no options. Germinated seeds, rooted clones, and brought them to full harvest with little to no problems. (was just learning my techniques) And actually...it helped me learn how to recognize when and how much to nute, since the MG nutes run-out about a month after transplant.
Sure gets old hearing this bullshit that MG soil is no good. Some gardeners do have the actual ability to adjust, so no...it's not the MG that sucks...it's the gardeners inability to adapt that sucks.

[Dutch Pimp]

:)...http://boards.cannabis.com/basic-growing/163551-moisture-control-miracle-grow.html

[stinkyattic]

Couple comments.
Turn your fan around so you are actually pulling air OUT. This is much more efficient, and the correct configuration for an indoor exhaust.
Are you commenting that MG soil contains a lot of peat or did you ADD a lot of peat? Peat is a useful soil amendment in sandy outdoor gardens, and to make mixes, but needs lime added as well at the time of mixing.
Your source water is a bit low, especially for use in a peat-based medium.

The switch from outdoor to indoor growing is especially difficult for nursery professionals. I have one for a consulting client, who ran a perennials farm his entire career, and has several significant and serious, but easily fixable, issues after making the switch. The shift in mindset can be painful! Luckily, cannabis is a great painkiller :rolleyes:

Can you post up pictures of your seedlings, the area they are in, and a broad shot of the room as it is configured? Sometimes the answer is a big OH, DUH! when things seem right on paper, but something just isn't right.

Also, tell me about your watering style. You answered teh reservoir question- are you running automated drip? Seedlings should always be hand watered, and lightly!

[TheXFactor]

Couple comments.
Turn your fan around so you are actually pulling air OUT. This is much more efficient, and the correct configuration for an indoor exhaust.
Are you commenting that MG soil contains a lot of peat or did you ADD a lot of peat? Peat is a useful soil amendment in sandy outdoor gardens, and to make mixes, but needs lime added as well at the time of mixing.
Your source water is a bit low, especially for use in a peat-based medium.

The switch from outdoor to indoor growing is especially difficult for nursery professionals. I have one for a consulting client, who ran a perennials farm his entire career, and has several significant and serious, but easily fixable, issues after making the switch. The shift in mindset can be painful! Luckily, cannabis is a great painkiller :rolleyes:

Can you post up pictures of your seedlings, the area they are in, and a broad shot of the room as it is configured? Sometimes the answer is a big OH, DUH! when things seem right on paper, but something just isn't right.

Also, tell me about your watering style. You answered teh reservoir question- are you running automated drip? Seedlings should always be hand watered, and lightly!

this MG has a lot of peat, i did not at more. just took right as is out of the bag, and quite honeslty in the laST 48 hours one plant is now beginning well it looks like its exploding in growth its only on the first node but the 2 leaves are bigger than any others ive grown so far(its till early to tell though)... so maybe it is the MG now helping... i understand happyfrogs it topline shit, it might be to much for this... to keep that variable the same would be stupid so....


as for watering them, the first water, practically as a seed, i water till it drips then i let it dry completely and the seed should have popped the surface already then i just add 1/3 the water i did the first time, just enough water to maintain moisture but by the time the water settles is already drying up as to not overwater....

no fertz yet... they too young. (so whoever said start feeding, things like that is what pisses me off on here)

the fan has been set up to pull air our the top, and it suck it in from the side... its a homebox tent.

also the reason im using nursrey water is b/c i want to wait till the plants get older before i give them tap water...my area my have chlorine bleach mixture. so i dont want even bother with that.


pics will come soon but not soon enough

[Rusty Trichome]

they have 2 distinct looking problems, one strain hawaiiXhaze looks extremely deficient in nit. but i cant fert it... its almost 2 months old, 5 inches tall on its 3rd node but not a single leaf is fully grown.


no fertz yet... they too young. (so whoever said start feeding, things like that is what pisses me off on here)


Around two months old, and still haven't started a nutrient regimine? With regular old MG Potting mix, I was adding half-strength nutes by week four after seedlings appear.
And just so I won't take the chance of pissing-off an ingrateful newbie by taking the time to help them adjust their obviously inadequate techniques...I've now got you on ignore.
Feel free to get pissed all you want, and good luck. :jointsmile:

[TheXFactor]

Around two months old, and still haven't started a nutrient regimine? With regular old MG Potting mix, I was adding half-strength nutes by week four after seedlings appear.
And just so I won't take the chance of pissing-off an ingrateful newbie by taking the time to help them adjust their obviously inadequate techniques...I've now got you on ignore.
Feel free to get pissed all you want, and good luck. :jointsmile:


when i get some pics, you'll say, wow, glad you didnt feed, they were soo small...

or should i have fed them, you would say, why would u do that, they're so small.

btw i just started using the MG in 3 already growing plants(seedlings), and 3 more i just planted(germinated seeds). so the problems were before the MG when i was using Happyfrog(top quality shit). so i highly doubt their arent enough nute in there... in the past 2 months ive fed plants that look very similar to these and the food just kills them.. ay ya eye. ill just create a new account and change the attitude i put on display i wonder if ill still get bozo ideas. i wonder if u ever notice its me. chances are u will cuz im such an individual

[stinkyattic]

I see a problem.
You are drenching the soil with seed, before there are roots to uptake the water, and it sits there and stagnates, and keeps oxygen from getting to the roots, as well as allowing chemical reactions among the components of the fertilizer in the soil, and the soil itself.
Water new seedlings LIGHTLY, to JUST MOISTEN the soil around where the actual seed and its root are.

Edit: SAME TEAM!!! SAME TEAM!!!:hippy:

[TheXFactor]

well update, for now things are starting to really turn around and quick... man i love how when u fix the problem with a plant, they respond relatively quickly.... i think as sticky mentioned, wheni plant them i over did the water, and the happy is such a great soil its also kind dense when watered like that. so im thinking the root were being starved of oxygen, nutes, halting everything as soon as they needed more and more nutes, and surprising the MG is well turning into a miracle.

i hope im now on the path to goodness without hiccups... but who knows whats next. im glad i can independantly think, because its now obvious to me that with or w/o pics or with or with out the needed info, none of you are much help but thanks for trying. if u want something done right do it yourself.. ill post pics later..


I would personnally not use MG soil.. heard too many bad things about it.
maybe try changing up your soil?

good luck anyway =)

well heres once, atleast for now you've heard something great about it... so careful with your advice.

[TheXFactor]

i started thinking about something stinky mentioned..... i overwatered my plants right after i planted them... and that stunted root growth, but when i look at the soil everything is telling me this should be great stuff, and it is, with everything i know about soil and good soil vs bad... minimal.. but when u see some good soil u know its good shit.

i think the next seeds i germinate depending how well the MG goes, but i would like to try the happyfrog again but not over water and just mist a little water on top and call it good. if not i'll just transplant into happyfrog once the plants have control or there space and become powerful. big picture stinky like u said..

ive been looking at the plants insted of the soil composer and the soil didnt look like it was breathing and would stay wet and a few i checked the root or replanted, the soil came off in big clumps and was very dense with few roots. the MG is great the 2 times i checked today with one i sprouted 4 days ago, i was under cfls, and i placed it under the MH and its quadrupled in size, another was completly curled down to the stem(the 2first leaves, but still green. with very small 2n node. after 12hrs so far under the mh, the leaves are straight, and double in size.... the others i transplanted today into mg. and we'll see its effect. so currently everything is in mg and comin back. imagine that.

[stinkyattic]

Hint -important one-
Do not mist seedlings/their soil. That leads to fungus. Google 'damping-off'.
Instead, get a cheap diner ketchup dispenser and keep it filled with plain tap water, around pH 6.7 if you feel fancy, and use that to apply small amounts of water to the soil without adding humidity to the area.

MG is difficult to work with once you get into feeding your plants with liquid fertilizer. And it is too 'hot' for seedlings. That is why so many people slam it. FYI.

Happy frog with some extra perlite sounds like it will work well for your future seedling runs.

[TheXFactor]

Hint -important one-
Do not mist seedlings/their soil. That leads to fungus. Google 'damping-off'.
Instead, get a cheap diner ketchup dispenser and keep it filled with plain tap water, around pH 6.7 if you feel fancy, and use that to apply small amounts of water to the soil without adding humidity to the area.

MG is difficult to work with once you get into feeding your plants with liquid fertilizer. And it is too 'hot' for seedlings. That is why so many people slam it. FYI.

Happy frog with some extra perlite sounds like it will work well for your future seedling runs.


u are a smart person.. i know i get pissy and sound arrogant, but i am kinda smart to too... your thoughts were the same as mine, i was questioning myself for some reason about misting, not sure why, but u said it... and i also agree i should be able to use happyfrog next time as long i dont overwater it from the beginning... ketchup bottle, or anything to gently squeeze a little water onto the soil... got it.

i dont not believe MG is shit, im sure it is, but i also believe it does have its place on my closet for a basic, simply mixture, but soon as they out grow the little dixi cups, 1 will go into happyfrog for a few days before i decide the rest, just to see how it works...

now that i have transplanted and litterely removed soil from the roots many plants, i have some dirt sitting in a pot, just in the corner, i have some in the bag it came, ive tossed a good amount in the trash and after just the other days repotted i have some more sitting in a plastic grocery bag... im contemplating tossing it out, but its such good soil that, well, was never really used. and it should still be good but i dont want to take it out and use it and infect my garden with some bacteria, fungi, bug that might have taken refuge in them when they were still moist, or dry... who knows im sure theres something that can live in it no matter the temp/moisture. and if theres no natural enemy, ie the outdoors, it'll reak havoc...... to put it simple im trying to minimize possible future problems.

[stinkyattic]

That's backwards; start with happyfrog and THEN go into MG if you are going to use it at all. Happy Frog has lower nute levels than MG and is therefore correct for seedlings. Also, a few days won't really tell you anything.

Why don't you do a test with bag seeds and dixie cups of different types of soil available to you to see which performs best? Put them all under a 4', 2-bulb T12 shop light and treat them IDENTICALLY. Record results. It will be informative for you, and for us if you share what you find.

[TheXFactor]

That's backwards; start with happyfrog and THEN go into MG if you are going to use it at all. Happy Frog has lower nute levels than MG and is therefore correct for seedlings. Also, a few days won't really tell you anything.

Why don't you do a test with bag seeds and dixie cups of different types of soil available to you to see which performs best? Put them all under a 4', 2-bulb T12 shop light and treat them IDENTICALLY. Record results. It will be informative for you, and for us if you share what you find.

i dont really have any bagseed, but they sent me some immature seeds that iasked for because my last shippment half the seeds were cracked or immature and never popped... but there might be 1 or 2 that will grow...

ill make sure to post the results on here once i get them. w/ pics.

thanks stinky..