View Full Version : HELP! look at the pics help me out here please!!
projectinfo
10-18-2008, 05:52 PM
i may have been over nuting or not enough of a certain one but check these out
h=hydro
E-indoor
E-soil
E-B'Cuzz hydromix hp
E-bottled water
E-Source water 6.4
E-3 weeks
E-dnf gro for seedlings and cuttings
E-400w hps 3 ft from plant
E-day 30 deg and 50 humidity , night 24 40 humidity
E-18/6
E-air purifier and ocsilating fan and 465 cfm fan blowing through light box for 400w hps outside , no fresh air except when door open and air purifiers
E= media was claimed to be pre nutrianted
there about 8 inches tall showing reddish stalks stem is green and starting to flake and leaves are curling down and the bushy one is curling up a little dark green in the middle of leafs and turning yellowish on the outside except the bushy one what could be happening ?? over nute not enough of the right kind , and suggestions for the room or ideas how to fix it up or the plants
projectinfo
10-18-2008, 05:54 PM
rest of pics
Weedhound
10-18-2008, 06:10 PM
I got lost between the hydro and the soil.......obviously you are in soil but the word hydro was mentioned in your post somewhere.
That looks like a straight up ph issue.....check your soil runoff which should be between 6.2-6.8......i'm betting yours is off. Looks like it's locking out all your nutes.
projectinfo
10-18-2008, 09:12 PM
it was low ph like 6.2 so were gunna get some dolomite lime and see if we can level it out to 7, what should it be at? so was water my problem?
Weedhound
10-18-2008, 11:55 PM
6.2 is within your limits.......you mentioned you are using bottled water? It may be a touch low but your plants look like they definitely have issues.
If you are not using tap water, perhaps you should try it. Check the ph and when you water try to keep ph up a bit (about 6.7) to compensate for the low runoff. I know Stinky doesn't like using bottled water but I can't quite remember why......lots of salt in bottled water or missing certain micro nutes or maybe both.
Another thought is to completely transplant them all into a good quality soil like Fox Farms or something. New good quality soil and a transplant can fix a lot of issues!
phatsesh101
10-19-2008, 12:16 AM
i think bottled water needs some cal mag
projectinfo
10-19-2008, 02:01 AM
yeah i was thinking of finding lime to raise ph but i dont need to ? think if i use tap water instead they might wake back up, and the soil i have is top a the line stuff fromthe hydroponic shop ahah any ideas what shouod i do
polishpollack
10-19-2008, 03:46 AM
I see your thermostat is using Centigrade, is that right? 30 degrees C is about 90F, much to hot for that plant.
projectinfo
10-19-2008, 10:24 AM
yeah i know eh its an enclosed room with no outdoors acess any ideas on how to cool down? or bring the plants back to life? i fixed the waters ph im going to use on them to 7..... so if i water them normally with this should they perk back up after a bit??
projectinfo
10-19-2008, 10:31 AM
just notices leaf tips are starting to burn a lil and turn kinda brown
Weedhound
10-19-2008, 03:21 PM
I consider 7 too high. You need to get your room temps down....90F is too high for good health with cannabis.
Where's Stinky when you need her? She's the soil expert.
It just looks to me like EVERYTHING is off on those plants. I'd use tap water at 6.8 and .......again......consider transplanting to quality soil which will solve much of your problems.
projectinfo
10-19-2008, 03:29 PM
what kind of soil, and its goin out of season its hard to find , buddy said at the store this stuffs the best..
projectinfo
10-20-2008, 10:32 AM
ahh there dyin fast what do i do guys
daihashi
10-20-2008, 01:20 PM
i may have been over nuting or not enough of a certain one but check these out
E-bottled water
Why are you using bottled water? If it's drinking water then often times it has sodium in it to account for human taste. If you use store bought water then you want to use distilled; however There is, TYPICALLY, nothing wrong with tap water. Tap water has Calcium and Magnesium in it, something that bottled water does not have and you would have to add through a supplement like CalMag. Calcium/Magnesium is essential for plant life/health.
Switch to tap water unless you are running water from a well and you know your water is bad, otherwise be sure to use DISTILLED water with CALMAG.
E-Source water 6.4
You said your soil runoff is 6.2? That's still within your threshold however you want to try to be at about 6.8. Adding dolemite lime is a pain and would have to be added as a tea. Even then it would wash away. Water your plants with water ph'd at 6.8 - 7.0. This should bring your runoff ph closer to 6.5 which is much more ideal.
E-3 weeks
You're a bit early, but I would check the plants for root bound conditions. While the soil is moist (not wet.. but just moist) gentle put your palm around the stalk and turn the pot upside down and wiggle it out of the pot. Check for root bound symptoms.
If you are root bound then now is the time to transplant. This would also address any ph issues you may be encountering.
E-dnf gro for seedlings and cuttings
How long have you been applying this? This is a hydroponics nutrient line.. not a soil based one. Which will really screw up your plants if you are dosing the hydroponic solution for your soil plants.
Simply Hydroponics - DNF (http://www.simplyhydroponics.com/dnf.htm)
Flush your plants right away with ph 6.8 water, 3 times the pots size in volume of water (ie: 1 gallon pot = 3 gallons of water ph'd at 6.8 slowly and gently poured into the pots allowing it to drain very well.) then give a very very very light feeding (1/4 dose or 1/8 dose) of a good soil based nutrient line. Fox farms is a good place to start. Many people here like it and will attest to it's quality.
E-400w hps 3 ft from plant
E-day 30 deg and 50 humidity , night 24 40 humidity
30 degrees? YIKES!! That is way too hot. Photosynthesis is optimal between 72 and 78 degrees F (22-26C). For every degree over 78 photosynthesis drastically declines until you hit 85 degrees where it nearly comes to a halt completely.
You need to cool your plants better. What is your ventilation setup like? you need to have an exhaust with a passive intake. I'll get to that later.
What is the size of your grow environment? Also I noticed you're using mylar. Mylar will create hotspots. You will want to rip that down and paint your walls FLAT WHITE.
Again, what is the size of your grow environment? This is a very important question in relation to the lighting you're using.
E-air purifier and ocsilating fan and 465 cfm fan blowing through light box for 400w hps outside , no fresh air except when door open and air purifiers
Your air purifier is probably just wasting space. I would remove it. Heat will occupy a space until that space reaches the same temperature as the radiant heat source or higher. At which point heat can no longer effectively move anywhere and just builds hotter and hotter.
What this means is that any space you can free up is beneficial in a small grow area as it will help, slightly, reduce heat.
In addition your 465cfm fan.. is that an inline fan? If so you want to have it set to exhausting your room. Using it as an intake is just blowing hot air around. Your goal is to exhaust all the cubic feet of air in your grow environment in 5 minutes. I personally like to exhaust all the air in the room in 1 minute.
Are you running a cool tube or air cooled hood or anything of the sort to isolate the radiant heat coming off your light?
E= media was claimed to be pre nutrianted
This is a HUGE nono.. You want your plants to be in a non nuted media to begin with. Try using peat pucks next time or running a very good flush on your media before you use it.
Seeing as how it's too late for that now just be sure to follow the steps I listed above for flushing the plant.
there about 8 inches tall showing reddish stalks stem is green and starting to flake and leaves are curling down and the bushy one is curling up a little dark green in the middle of leafs and turning yellowish on the outside except the bushy one what could be happening ?? over nute not enough of the right kind , and suggestions for the room or ideas how to fix it up or the plants
You're doing a multitude of things wrong. Read everything I wrote and apply it to your grow. They can recover.
In order of importance:
Reduce heat
Change your water source or add CalMag
Flush your plants
Change Nutrients
Anything else I listed comes after that.
Good luck.
daihashi
10-20-2008, 01:23 PM
I take back what I said about transplanting. You are already in pots that are too big for your plant. If you try to transplant now you will just shock the hell out of the plant and it will get worse. Follow the flushing guidelines.
Be sure to drill additional holes into the sides of your pot to help with drainage and aeration. This will ensure your roots don't drown.
Also I still can't tell if that's an air cooled hood or not. Either way you need to be exhausting the room.
projectinfo
10-20-2008, 05:15 PM
wow thanks alot for the info , yeah its a cool tube for the 400w hps and its an enclosed room so no new air but might be able to exhauset the room
projectinfo
10-20-2008, 05:16 PM
pics
projectinfo
10-20-2008, 05:20 PM
morr
projectinfo
10-20-2008, 05:21 PM
more pics
daihashi
10-20-2008, 05:26 PM
what is the ambient temperature outside the room? You want to set your fan to exhaust your cool tube.. not blow into it
If you can get another inline fan or squirrel cage fan to exhaust the room that would be best. Set it up at the highest point possible to draw the hot air up and away from the plants.
If you do not have an extra fan then uncap the passive intake side of your cool tube (this is after you flip your fan from intake and make it an exhaust.) and have it draw in air from the room so that get's exhausted out also.
Again.. what is the size of your grow area.. this is detrimental in relation to your 400 watt light.
daihashi
10-20-2008, 05:30 PM
you want your cool tube setup as follows:
passive intake ----> Air Cooled Hood -----> Exhaust going OUT OF THE ROOM
There is no reason your temps should be 90 degrees with your light 3ft above the canopy.
I'm also going to take a wild guess since you haven't responded to my question regarding the size of the grow area and say that you are probably growing in a space that is too small for a 400 watt hps.
projectinfo
10-20-2008, 05:47 PM
yeah my room is about 8ft tall flat white walls concrete ceiling only one way for exhaust out of the room no new air available, its about 5 by 5 ft floorwith a foot of shelfs in the back, from the pics does the fan and hood look setup right
intake from the room exhaust going into tubeing then hood then tube then out of room
daihashi
10-20-2008, 05:51 PM
and there in lies your problem..
You need to find a source of FRESH COOL air. You also still need to flip your fan to be an exhaust going out of the room instead of being an intake.
You do not need an active intake for the room, but you do need to find a way to draw air in from a place outside of the grow area. Without that your temps will just continue to rise.
stinkyattic
10-20-2008, 05:55 PM
What type of bottled water is it? What is the pH AFTER adding nutes? Do you adjust it to 6.7 before use, and do you even have a runoff pH number available to gauge that?
projectinfo
10-20-2008, 05:56 PM
temp outside room is 24, so the intake part of the blower hoooks into the hood maybe open one hole up to take in more air from outside the hood and blow the exhaust outside
daihashi
10-20-2008, 06:15 PM
temp outside room is 24, so the intake part of the blower hoooks into the hood maybe open one hole up to take in more air from outside the hood and blow the exhaust outside
Yes. You need to draw in air from outside the room.. and you need to exhaust outside the room.
Set your exhaust high and set your passive intake low. If you're using 6" ducting then have at least 1 6" hole at the bottom of your grow area as a passive intake, but it may be likely that you will need 1-2 holes.
After you get your heat issue addressed then you need to address your water/nutrient issue.
Honestly I would suggest you stop using bottled water all together and just use the water out of your tap. Be sure to PH the water to about 6.5 and that your run off is coming out between 6.3 - 6.8.
This is of course after you flush your plants as I explained in my first reply.
There are a few things you need to do to get these babies back on track. Address your heat issue first (3ft above the canopy and still 30C temps is ridiculous) then address the other things I outlined.
projectinfo
10-20-2008, 06:19 PM
i changed the fan , working much better thanks a ton man, runn off is 6.2 i think i said it was im using tap water now or should i use distilled water that i put ph up in to get to 7.0 and no there inst really a way to get cool air in , any other ideas??
daihashi
10-20-2008, 06:23 PM
i changed the fan , working much better thanks a ton man, runn off is 6.2 i think i said it was im using tap water now or should i use distilled water that i put ph up in to get to 7.0 and no there inst really a way to get cool air in , any other ideas??
7.0 is out of your range.
Just use tap water that you use PH up or PH down to get it to 6.5. That is the middle of the line of your acceptable PH range for soil.
When you use distilled you have to use calmag which is just another added cost. Stick with tapwater and ph adjust it.
It takes much of the guess work out of it.
Surely there must be a way to get cool air into the room. You are obviously getting to the room some how so it's not sealed off completely. Is there a door or some sheet rock you can cut through? Maybe run some large PVC through the walls to pull in cool air from another room?
Without cool air coming in you will have problems.
projectinfo
10-20-2008, 06:25 PM
theres no issue of over watering when flushing?? ive basically gatherd that but 3 gallons of water into the pot after slicing more hoels into it?il go back and read ur flushing thing and look abit more on the net and try that, how do closet grows work there must be a different way this room has a bathroom in the way of the bedroomwich has the window.... i got the exhaust all fixed il check tmep here ina min it should reduce huge... for cool air ... any ideas? and il get reading on fliushing because ive been using hydroponic nutes and schedule for a soil setup so i spose flush is definite .... thanks for the help guys looking for the feedback
projectinfo
10-20-2008, 06:28 PM
for cool air i could go the hoel as exhaust above the bathroom into the bedroom closet behind the bed out the window with a small inline fann and tubing .... how big of a fan and tub would be needed for the area /light/plants ratios
daihashi
10-20-2008, 06:29 PM
theres no issue of over watering when flushing?? ive basically gatherd that but 3 gallons of water into the pot after slicing more hoels into it?il go back and read ur flushing thing and look abit more on the net and try that, how do closet grows work there must be a different way this room has a bathroom in the way of the bedroomwich has the window.... i got the exhaust all fixed il check tmep here ina min it should reduce huge... for cool air ... any ideas? and il get reading on fliushing because ive been using hydroponic nutes and schedule for a soil setup so i spose flush is definite .... thanks for the help guys looking for the feedback
Well.. it's 3 times the volume of the pot with PH'd water after you've drilled additional holes into the sides of the pot. So if you have 2 gallon pots, you will need to flush with 6 gallons of water.
Closet grows are usually a PITA unless you can cut holes into walls for your air exhaust and air supply. Can't you just pull in cool air from the bathroom?
daihashi
10-20-2008, 06:32 PM
for cool air i could go the hoel as exhaust above the bathroom into the bedroom closet behind the bed out the window with a small inline fann and tubing .... how big of a fan and tub would be needed for the area /light/plants ratios
You don't have to go all the way out the window. When I said fresh air I meant cool air that comes from outside of your grow environment. You will want a passive intake at least the same size as the ducting you have run in your grow area, which to me looks like 6" diameter ducting.
Technically you're running a big enough exhaust to be able to satisfy your room provided you had an adequate passive intake system; which is where I think you problem lies now.
projectinfo
10-20-2008, 06:34 PM
Well.. it's 3 times the volume of the pot with PH'd water after you've drilled additional holes into the sides of the pot. So if you have 2 gallon pots, you will need to flush with 6 gallons of water.
Closet grows are usually a PITA unless you can cut holes into walls for your air exhaust and air supply. Can't you just pull in cool air from the bathroom?
just the air from the bathroom?? it doesnt need to be from outside the building?? yeah i can do that it would be like 22- 24 would that be fine? and shoulod i go to the hydroponic shop i get the stuff at and get nutriants for soil??
projectinfo
10-20-2008, 06:36 PM
and i need another blower or inline fan??
daihashi
10-20-2008, 06:53 PM
just the air from the bathroom?? it doesnt need to be from outside the building?? yeah i can do that it would be like 22- 24 would that be fine? and shoulod i go to the hydroponic shop i get the stuff at and get nutriants for soil??
Yes, the air from the bathroom is fine. You just need cool air from outside your grow area. I would recommend you get some soil based nutes.. Fox Farms is a very popular nutrient line for soil.
In regards to the inline fan. A second inline fan would be beneficial if you set it up to exhaust the room and had your open end of your air cooled hood pulling air from the bathroom as well...
However if this is not possible then there is no need for a second high velocity fan really.
projectinfo
10-20-2008, 07:02 PM
so the open hole inthe hood put duct into the bathroom and it will bring cool air into the hood..... will that be enough for the room?..... pic of the wall i could put a hole in....does it matter if the hole is at the bottom or top of the room
daihashi
10-20-2008, 07:37 PM
bottom of the room would be best as it would allow the cool air to rise from the bottom of the room and cool as it went up to the air cooled hood.
Putting it at the top wouldn't really cool the bottom of the room very well, and this is where your plants are. You want to create a cool buffer between the canopy and your lights.. which a hole at the bottom would do that much more efficiently than a hole at the top
projectinfo
10-20-2008, 07:45 PM
for veg , would plant prod all perpous fertilizer 20-20-20 be good for soil nutes? and flowering plant prod fertilizer 15 30 15 be good for flowering nutes.... so cut 6 inch hole at bottom and get some kind of fan to suck it into the grow room? or just an open hole for air to pass freely? or am i mis understood on how to maximize the use of my 465 cfm fan already into the hood in pics above......?? my tap water is about 6-6.2 ph should i get lie 9 gal and rais to 6.8 and flush them??? all this should put me back on track righto???????????
daihashi
10-20-2008, 08:06 PM
for veg , would plant prod all perpous fertilizer 20-20-20 be good for soil nutes? and flowering plant prod fertilizer 15 30 15 be good for flowering nutes.... so cut 6 inch hole at bottom and get some kind of fan to suck it into the grow room? or just an open hole for air to pass freely? or am i mis understood on how to maximize the use of my 465 cfm fan already into the hood in pics above......?? my tap water is about 6-6.2 ph should i get lie 9 gal and rais to 6.8 and flush them??? all this should put me back on track righto???????????
Just leave the hole. You would be hurting the intake by putting a fan there. Unless the fan is also blowing in 465 cfm, you are only creating a bottleneck/chokepoint. Passive intakes (just holes with no fans) work best when you have an active exhaust running.
Yes you want to flush your plants out at about 6.8 - 7.0 ph. This will raise your run off ph to about 6.5-6.8 which is where you want to be.
In regards to your plant food.. I am not a fan of the all purpose plant food. It is often times too hot and not very good quality at all. The cheapest soil based nutes at your hydro store are better than the best all purpose nutes you get at your department store.
You should be heading back to the right track.
Out of curiousity what are your temperatures now with the 6" passive inake hole and with the fan running as an exhaust?
projectinfo
10-20-2008, 08:12 PM
i gatta cut the hol il do that now..>>>>>> 6x6 hole?????????????????????
and il start phing the water and get ready for the big flush tongiht with my buddy
and il get back to you in a few hours dude be sure to check back dude
projectinfo
10-20-2008, 08:17 PM
and would the hydromix hp (high porisity) growing medium be good for the soil in the pots?? its got perlite in it
projectinfo
10-20-2008, 08:21 PM
majopr components canadian spbagnum peat moss 70%by volume
perlite 30 perfect per volume\
starter nutrition micronutriants and macronutriants
ph adjuster gypsum and dolomitic lime
wetting agent
projectinfo
10-20-2008, 08:51 PM
guy at the store said flush with around 6ph water? and to use the dnf gro a and b just alot less and to let em dry out
daihashi
10-20-2008, 09:18 PM
i gatta cut the hol il do that now..>>>>>> 6x6 hole?????????????????????
and il start phing the water and get ready for the big flush tongiht with my buddy
and il get back to you in a few hours dude be sure to check back dude
well a 6x6" hole works.. I meant a 6" in diameter hole but it amounts to the exact same thing. So yes, that will work :)
daihashi
10-20-2008, 09:25 PM
majopr components canadian spbagnum peat moss 70%by volume
perlite 30 perfect per volume\
starter nutrition micronutriants and macronutriants
ph adjuster gypsum and dolomitic lime
wetting agent
I'm not familiar with it.. basically you want something that has no nutrients in it. If it is anything like Promix then it will be fine. However with Peat you have transplant once every 4 weeks or so.. and do a flush every 4 weeks. Peat is acidic by nature and if you don't do this then you will have horrible soil chemistry, but if you stay on target flushing/transplanting once every 4 weeks then you will be right as rain.
projectinfo
10-20-2008, 09:26 PM
it sais on the bag thast it has dolomite lime and gypsum for ph balance
daihashi
10-20-2008, 09:27 PM
guy at the store said flush with around 6ph water? and to use the dnf gro a and b just alot less and to let em dry out
Let's put it this way.. if I met your hydro guy I would break my foot off in his arse for screwing up your grow.
Don't use those nutes.. and don't flush with 6ph.
Soil grows ph range is from 6.3-6.8
soilless grow is from 5.8-6.3
Hydro is 5.2-5.8
Coco is 5.2 - 6.8 (yes.. coco is awesome if you know what you're doing with it.)
Tell him to eat a big one and flush your plants with 6.8 ph'd water.
projectinfo
10-20-2008, 09:30 PM
would it be alright to use like a half dose every second watering like 1.5mg per L every 2 weeks or whatever i was doing full dose every 3daYS
daihashi
10-20-2008, 09:36 PM
would it be alright to use like a half dose every second watering like 1.5mg per L every 2 weeks or whatever i was doing full dose every 3daYS
the problem with hydro nutes is that the concentration is off compared to soil. Often times you will over feed your plants or burn them entirely.. secondly hydro nutes don't really have any chelating agents in them so they break down into salts.. which in turn gives you very bad soil chemistry.
I hate to say it, as crappy as miracle gro is.. but I would recommend miracle gro over hydro nutes for soil based grows.
That's not to say I'm telling you to get miracle grow, but that's to put things in perspective for you. If you can't afford Fox farms nutrient line then that's fine, and believe me I understand what it's like to be on a budget.. but your cheapest soil based nutes would be better than feeding them hydro based nutes.
daihashi
10-20-2008, 09:37 PM
What are the temps in your grow room looking like now?
projectinfo
10-20-2008, 09:38 PM
so miricle grow from veg to flower..
projectinfo
10-20-2008, 09:40 PM
didnt get the hole cut yet still geting setup lights off half hour ago down to 28 no hole yet so i wont know temp till tomorrow morning when i can turn it on for a while
so any specific miricle grow numbers 0-0-0 i should buy??
man really apreciate all this
daihashi
10-20-2008, 09:47 PM
For veg you want a nute that is High in N, but low in P-K..
for flower you want a nute that has almost no N but high in P-K
daihashi
10-20-2008, 09:50 PM
didnt get the hole cut yet still geting setup lights off half hour ago down to 28 no hole yet so i wont know temp till tomorrow morning when i can turn it on for a while
so any specific miricle grow numbers 0-0-0 i should buy??
man really apreciate all this
it was 28 before lights went off?
That's very good for just changing the intake to the exhaust.. that's 82 degrees.. down from 90.
Another thing, and I practice this myself. Run your lights from 9pm to 9am. Or something similar. Take advantage of the naturally cooler temps at night. When it's cool outside, even though you aren't pulling air in from outside your place it becomes much easier to cool your room.
I live in a very hot area of the world and it makes a world of difference.
projectinfo
10-21-2008, 01:02 AM
26 when the lights off no fan system / passiove hole i fluished with 6.8 and fed lightly with miricle grow and draining quite well now back in the room and lights will turn on in 2 hours.. or should i now?
stinkybudz
10-21-2008, 01:43 AM
use african violet food from miracle grow for flower, cheap nutes :thumbsup:
projectinfo
10-21-2008, 01:50 AM
whats the npk, nute numbers
projectinfo
10-21-2008, 10:44 AM
lights been on 6 hours and with the hole its down to 28c, a big change from 34 c and humidity with no humidifier is 45....... im not spose to transplant after flushing right.....??? just flush feeed lightly and go abck to normal.... riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight??
projectinfo
10-21-2008, 10:53 AM
look at the plants and the last one is a closeup of the stalks .... right purple bad isnt it...... think theyl bounce back??
daihashi
10-21-2008, 01:25 PM
They're weeds.. they will bounce back but the quality of your plant has been compromised.
Glad to hear about your temps.. and your pots appear large enough to where you shouldn't have to transplant.
Just to be clear.. I was not advocating for you to use miracle grow. I was saying that even as crappy of a nutrient line as Miracle grow is... it would be better for your soil grow than your hydro nutes.
Your plants results will directly reflect the care and quality you put into it... nutrients included. Do the bare minimum and you get minimum results.
I think you can see where I'm going with that statement.
projectinfo
10-21-2008, 02:19 PM
start over.. get better soil nutes..?? :(
miricle grow nutes are 24 7 14
he doesnt have fox farm ... and other signs i should look for when looking for soil nutes cuz this guy is saying use the hydro nutes just in less quantity......
daihashi
10-21-2008, 02:26 PM
start over.. get better soil nutes..?? :(
miricle grow nutes are 24 7 14
he doesnt have fox farm ... and other signs i should look for when looking for soil nutes cuz this guy is saying use the hydro nutes just in less quantity......
Order your nutrient line off the internet.
Try to finish your plants; if nothing else it will be a very good growing experience for you.
During my first grow I made every mistake imaginable. It took me 3 months to get a plant to grow more than 4-6"; but I know why all my mistakes were mistakes and I am thankful for all the mistakes I made because now I know exacty what to do and what to look for when there appears to be trouble among my crop.. more importantly I know how to fix it as well.
So keep growing your plants and learn everything you can. Your 2nd grow will be much better.
projectinfo
10-21-2008, 02:33 PM
theres only 3 plants so thats why soil no big contraptions cept the air/light am i doing this right now all im mmissing is the nutes am i correct??or would there be something elese youd do instead of soil, or maybe a feeding system orswitch to hydro or areo or coco or whats the best simlest easyest way to grow 3 plants with lowish budgeta dn the info already givin
daihashi
10-21-2008, 02:42 PM
theres only 3 plants so thats why soil no big contraptions cept the air/light am i doing this right now all im mmissing is the nutes am i correct??or would there be something elese youd do instead of soil, or maybe a feeding system orswitch to hydro or areo or coco or whats the best simlest easyest way to grow 3 plants with lowish budgeta dn the info already givin
Just keep going with what you have and learn why problems happen... not just how to fix them.
I would continue with what you have. A feeding system is unecessary in soil.. hydro and aero are expensive to get started (the water pumps, air pumps, chiller systems, resevoirs, air stones..) and can become complicated if you are not able to monitor the resevoir twice a day (ppm/tds, PH, water temperature and aeration).
If you want to grow in hydro then DWC is often one of the cheapest ways to do this.
I personally grow in coco.. which has it's own issues; but in my personal opinion... it is the next best thing to Hydroponics without all the hassle; not quite as good but 2nd best.
Most of my current issues I have currently in coco stem from unstable genetics. The plants that didn't sprout all weird are looking beautiful/gorgeous.
With all that said.. learn how to grow in your current medium. Take this time to become a master of what you have. Whether you realize it or not.. if you continue down this hobby of growing you will eventually spend more and more money as you will find that your growing style will evolve.
Weedhound
10-21-2008, 05:04 PM
the problem with hydro nutes is that the concentration is off compared to soil. Often times you will over feed your plants or burn them entirely.. secondly hydro nutes don't really have any chelating agents in them so they break down into salts.. which in turn gives you very bad soil chemistry.
I hate to say it, as crappy as miracle gro is.. but I would recommend miracle gro over hydro nutes for soil based grows.
That's not to say I'm telling you to get miracle grow, but that's to put things in perspective for you. If you can't afford Fox farms nutrient line then that's fine, and believe me I understand what it's like to be on a budget.. but your cheapest soil based nutes would be better than feeding them hydro based nutes.
Sorry Dai.....this part I completely disagree with. My hydro man (and he IS good) would cry if you said this to hiim.
Quality nutes.......miracle grow just aint them. The man who taught me to grow says hydro nutes are completely fine to use as long as you adjust ph to correct levels for soil.
projectinfo
10-21-2008, 06:40 PM
Quality nutes.......miracle grow just aint them. The man who taught me to grow says hydro nutes are completely fine to use as long as you adjust ph to correct levels for soil.
how do you adjust the ph of soil?? dolomite lime to bring it to around 7?? and what is the cporrect level for soil?? its peat/vermiculite/lime/perlite micro and macro nutes in it which are probly gone now i flushed last ngiht cuz of the buildup there a few days ago
so from the dnf gro a/bhow much would i put in what ph of my soil 1/4....1/2? and is there any certain number of litres to give each plant or mix it up and water like i normally would....
projectinfo
10-21-2008, 08:26 PM
baught schultz bloom builder plant food 10-54-10 for flowering stage... but back to my question above..
daihashi
10-21-2008, 09:39 PM
Sorry Dai.....this part I completely disagree with. My hydro man (and he IS good) would cry if you said this to hiim.
Quality nutes.......miracle grow just aint them. The man who taught me to grow says hydro nutes are completely fine to use as long as you adjust ph to correct levels for soil.
The reason why I say is because you have to worry about too many micronutes.. and have too strong of a dosage a long with other things which can be a daunting task for someone who is just starting out; particularly salt build up due to a lack of chelating agent, but this was under the assumption that he would pick an organic nute that had a chelating agent in it; although I suppose he could've just dosed with Molasses but then further complicate things by adding something additional into his mixture.
For a person who has had this many problems getting his setup straightened out.. I strongly suggested for him to not run hydro nutes. Had the rest of his setup been in check and his only problem been his nutrient line then I would've suggested that he run 1/4 dose hydro nutes in soil as well as be sure to flush every 4 weeks.
I made the assumption that his hydro guy knew what was up with his situation. All to many times have I been in a number of hydro shops where the person absolutely has no idea what they are talking about.
So I guess I should add an addendum... I don't suggest *projectinfo* run hydro nutes in soil until he has had gone through 1 complete grow.. just to avoid complicating the situation that he's currently in.
daihashi
10-21-2008, 09:42 PM
how do you adjust the ph of soil?? dolomite lime to bring it to around 7?? and what is the cporrect level for soil?? its peat/vermiculite/lime/perlite micro and macro nutes in it which are probly gone now i flushed last ngiht cuz of the buildup there a few days ago
so from the dnf gro a/bhow much would i put in what ph of my soil 1/4....1/2? and is there any certain number of litres to give each plant or mix it up and water like i normally would....
You adjust the PH of the soil by usig PH up/down in your nutrient solution that you mix and water until you get the desired runoff.
If your soil chemistry is fubarred then yes.. you could make a dolemite lime tea; but this starts to get complicated and you'll probably have to use a tea fairly often due to the fact that much of it will wash out with each watering. An easier solution would be just to transplant into a bigger pot; but only if you are close to utilizing most of the soil space in your current pot otherwise transplanting to a bigger pot would cause unecessary stress and would cause your soil to have moist conditions for longer than desired.
Again, the correct ph level for soil.. which I listed previously is 6.3-6.8
projectinfo
10-21-2008, 09:47 PM
so "nutriant solution" is feeding them with the miricle grow or whatevrer i find which all i can see using is the 1/4 of the dnf or 202020 all purpose plant food or the miricle grow..... so adjust the ph in the food to 6.3-6.8 and keep watering and catch the runoff do a ph test till its 6.3-6.8 keep doing till its between those would i wory about over nuting again or salt buildup attempoting to get this fine balance between numbers??
projectinfo
10-22-2008, 01:43 AM
anybody still up??
daihashi
10-22-2008, 02:07 AM
anybody still up??
You have much of the information you need already posted in this thread. Don't focus on salt build up too much but you need to be aware of it. It does happen and isn't uncommon.
Organic soil based nutes would help with this which is why I suggested soil nutes. not even thinking you might pick non organic nutes.
With that said I think you are ready to take this on your own. Your grow should be back in check and everything you've been saying lately we've just been reaffirming. Meaning you have a basic understanding of what needs to be done.
Fly little birdie. Time to leave the nest and spread your wings. I think you'll be fine.
Weedhound
10-22-2008, 04:22 PM
OVERNUTE is another issue to think about......it's not the same as salt buildup but along the same line....too much of either will mess up your plants big time.
You want WHATEVER you pour into your pot to be ph'd between 6.2-6.8 and whatever comes out the BOTTOM of your pot should be same.....somewhere between 6.2-6.8 but it doesn't have to be the exact number that when in......just make sure the runoff is between the normal levels as well. If it's NOT, flush with plain water (correct the ph BEFORE you pour it in) until you get the desired runoff.
I again, like Daihashi, agree with a transplant which (if you use QUALITY soil) will help most of your issues straighten out. Soil growing can be easier imo than hydro......but it can also be HARDER sometimes as well.
Weedhound
10-22-2008, 04:26 PM
PS....I also agree with Dai that MANY hydro sellers don't know shit and DO give horrible and incorrect advice.......but mine happens to be excellent.
projectinfo
10-22-2008, 04:27 PM
B'Cuzz Hydromix HP is a ??high porosity? professional growing medium formulated for the serious grower. The light weight and high porosity of B'Cuzz Hydromix HP provide conditions necessary to establish plant growth, especially when growing situations require high air-capacity and low water-retention media. These characteristics make B'Cuzz Hydromix HP ideal for use with water sensitive crops, propagation of plant cuttings and/or low-light conditions.
Directions
Completely fill flats, pots, baskets, etc., taking care not to compact B'Cuzz Hydromix HP. DO NOT PACK DOWN. Be sure all containers have adequate drainage. To minimize dust particles, utilize a fine mist of water when filling containers.
B'Cuzz Hydromix may be moistened prior to or after filling containers. The incorporation of a wetting agent in the B'Cuzz Hydromix HP allows for ease of water absorption and distribution. Wetting is facilitated by constantly turning the mix while applying a fine spray of water until the desired moisture level is obtained.
B'Cuzz Hydromix contains starter nutrition to enable initial plant growth. To provide plants with necessary nutrients, it is essential to initiate a fertilization program during the course of production. The program selected should be appropriate for the plant species grown, stage of plant development, and water nutrient content. It is advisable to frequently analyze media nutrient levels throughout the production cycle to insure plants receive proper nutritional requirements.
Statistics
Canadian Sphagnum Peat Moss (70% by volume)
Perlite ?? Premium Horticultural Coarse Grade (30% by volume)
Starter Nutrition ?? Macronutrients & Micronutrients
pH Adjuster ?? Gypsum & Dolomitic Limestone
Wetting Agent
projectinfo
10-22-2008, 04:28 PM
would this be good for my soil grow?? or should i just go to the hardware or liek a garden center and get some basic potting soil?? what should the npk be ,, should i use shults... i baught some organic ferts/nutes from foxfarm today tiger bloom big bloom and american pride fertilizer
projectinfo
10-22-2008, 04:31 PM
treansplant in b'cuzz or go get soil? any specific npk?? ones lookin good il just leave him or should i be consistant so when i nute / flush or whatever laster everything will have the same base
Weedhound
10-22-2008, 05:01 PM
Are you near a hydro store? They will carry the Fox Farms line. You might try filling a cup with your bcuzz and pouring some ph correct tap water through it......if it comes out within the normal limits of ph you're probably ok.
I only use the Fox Farm line so can't tell you much about the different soils. I don't use them so don't know much about them.......I use what my hydro guy tells me and thats Fox Farm Happy Frog for brand new seedlings and Fox Farms Oceans Forest for a couple weeks old on up.
Fortunately......or unfortunately......since the quality soil does the work I don't have to know much.......so I don't about different soils......only the one I use.
Weedhound
10-22-2008, 05:05 PM
So my thought would be that if you can get ahold of some FFOF or Happy Frog I personally would tell you to go and buy THOSE soils and use them. This WAS the point of my first post.....but as usual I forgot what I was talking about. :wtf:
projectinfo
10-22-2008, 05:06 PM
ok il giv a call thanks dude
projectinfo
10-22-2008, 05:10 PM
farmer clems got premium and promix...... il call hydro guy
projectinfo
10-22-2008, 06:06 PM
heres an update and hydro guy aint pickin up
daihashi
10-22-2008, 06:12 PM
Is there anyway to move your ballast out of that room? You'll probably see about a 1c drop in temperature.. at least that's my bet.
Also Expect your plants to take upwards of 2 weeks to recover, but I'm glad that you seem to have everything in check now. You're well on your way to growing a healthy plant.
projectinfo
10-22-2008, 07:57 PM
my soil runoff ph for jsut the soil out of the bag is 6.6 and my water is perfect 7 ... i got new tests today the liquid one haha so is that ok ??
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