national debt jumps almost $700 billion in ONE MONTH

[maladroit]

US national debt sept 15/08: $9.634 trillion

US national debt oct 15/08: $10.326 trillion

that is equal to:

$23 billion per day

$960 million per hour

$16 million per minute, every minute, 24 hours a day

[Markass]

National debt, irrational quest...who cares, we don't have to have anything behind that money except for ink and paper..and there's plenty of that, obviously..

[maladroit]

ink and paper is what caused the current global crisis, and the ink and paper in the national debt is a greater threat to US national security than terrorism

[killerweed420]

Yeah but its just on paper.;)

[GoldenBoy812]

ink and paper is what caused the current global crisis, and the ink and paper in the national debt is a greater threat to US national security than terrorism

It must be nice to point fingers constantly:icon506:

[maladroit]

"It must be nice to point fingers constantly," he said, pointing a finger at maladroit.


that paper is made up of US treasury notes which are guaranteed by the US government and must be repaid PLUS interest...last year, the interest expense on the national debt was $451 billion and next year, it will be over $500 billion


"My plan reduces the national debt, and fast. So fast, in fact, that economists worry that we're going to run out of debt to retire."
â?? President George Bush, radio address, Feb. 24, 2001

[GoldenBoy812]

that paper is made up of US treasury notes which are guaranteed by the US government and must be repaid PLUS interest...last year, the interest expense on the national debt was $451 billion and next year, it will be over $500 billion


"My plan reduces the national debt, and fast. So fast, in fact, that economists worry that we're going to run out of debt to retire."
â?? President George Bush, radio address, Feb. 24, 2001

Oh i see, its the TIPS market that brought about the economic crisis:wtf:

Once again, Maladroit is wrong; who would have guessed? I have a question for you. What has happened to LIBOR since September? Once you find out, point your finger in that direction and not know why...:jointsmile:

[maladroit]

i never said that treasury notes caused this crisis (strawman AGAIN!)

LIBOR generally went up since september despite rate cuts because banks have been sitting on their cash since they are afraid to trade with eachother (and required more interest to compensate for risk/liquidity issues)...LIBOR suddenly dropped over the past week because governments embraced socialism

[GoldenBoy812]

ink and paper is what caused the current global crisis, and the ink and paper in the national debt is a greater threat to US national security than terrorism


that paper is made up of US treasury notes which are guaranteed by the US government and must be repaid PLUS interest...last year, the interest expense on the national debt was $451 billion and next year, it will be over $500 billion


Care to cut and run around these statements?


LIBOR generally went up since september despite rate cuts because banks have been sitting on their cash since they are afraid to trade with eachother (and required more interest to compensate for risk/liquidity issues)...LIBOR suddenly dropped over the past week because governments embraced socialism

Its funny what a wikipedia/ google education will cause most of the time. A quick synthesis with very little substance. Fascism is more in line to what is going on as opposed to socialism. Keep trying, one day you could wind up actually contributing:jointsmile:

[killerweed420]

Who cares about LIBOR? Its just the interest the crooks charge each other for interbank loans. If the banks weren't run by idiots there would be no reason to even have LIBOR. Our monetary system is like our tax system. There are no experts because nobody understands the regulations. The regs just create new cubby holes where the crooks running our country can pickup a couple extra bucks. Both our tax system and our monetary system needs to be tanked and start over gain. There is nothing about either system that is worth trying to fix because its too corrupt. The fox is guarding the hen house.

[maladroit]

"Care to cut and run around these statements? "

- YES! there are more kinds of ink and paper than treasury notes...mortgage backed securities for instance...but i can see how my wording caused that confusion so i apologize for my lack of depth

[GoldenBoy812]

Who cares about LIBOR?

Off the record, the bailout's intention is to lower LIBOR. Banks who are not super deleveraging due to margin calls (stable banks) care. This is the root of the credit crunch...


Its just the interest the crooks charge each other for interbank loans. If the banks weren't run by idiots there would be no reason to even have LIBOR.

It is a form of transparency, that allows open competition of the credit markets.


Our monetary system is like our tax system. There are no experts because nobody understands the regulations. The regs just create new cubby holes where the crooks running our country can pickup a couple extra bucks. Both our tax system and our monetary system needs to be tanked and start over gain. There is nothing about either system that is worth trying to fix because its too corrupt. The fox is guarding the hen house.

:wtf: Tanked? No, that would cause world wide despair. Transitioned would be a more appropriate measure because it allows change without the panic and what it brings to humanity...

[JakeMartinez]

GoldenBoy, are you happy with the current system or not? I can never tell (no, I'm not being condescending).

National debt is unavoidable. In a fractional reserve system, money is created out of debt. It's the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard of, creating something of value out of a liability. I just wonder why we've adopted it, then, and why in 200 years we haven't found something better.

Oh...Without a sudden, violent (as in abrupt, not bloody) change, I don't think we'll ever escape it because our current monetary system allows and even promotes corruption.

[GoldenBoy812]

GoldenBoy, are you happy with the current system or not? I can never tell (no, I'm not being condescending).

National debt is unavoidable. In a fractional reserve system, money is created out of debt. It's the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard of, creating something of value out of a liability. I just wonder why we've adopted it, then, and why in 200 years we haven't found something better.

Oh...Without a sudden, violent (as in abrupt, not bloody) change, I don't think we'll ever escape it because our current monetary system allows and even promotes corruption.

Of course i am not happy with the current system. Yet i am not one to think it inherently logical to ignore the aspects of the world because i do not agree with them. Try not to think of it as a zero sum game...

IMHO, a fractional reserve system and debt wealth creation is perfectly logical and a fine tool to use in financial systems IF it is allowed to operate on the principles of the market. Make FRB's compete against full reserve banks, and have a transparent free market dictated rate of interest.

I believe in our lifetime, we will see such measures... Im 25 though, so keep that in mind too:jointsmile:

[JakeMartinez]

Of course i am not happy with the current system. Yet i am not one to think it inherently logical to ignore the aspects of the world because i do not agree with them. Try not to think of it as a zero sum game...

IMHO, a fractional reserve system and debt wealth creation is perfectly logical and a fine tool to use in financial systems IF it is allowed to operate on the principles of the market. Make FRB's compete against full reserve banks, and have a transparent free market dictated rate of interest.

I believe in our lifetime, we will see such measures... Im 25 though, so keep that in mind too:jointsmile:

I'm 18 so we're in the same boat here.

Personally, I think money is an outdated idea that is no longer needed. We have the resources and the technology to make the world a much better place than it is now, but that could take hundreds of years just until someone figures out how to turn a profit on it.

I think it's disgusting, what money does to people...

[GoldenBoy812]

Personally, I think money is an outdated idea that is no longer needed. We have the resources and the technology to make the world a much better place than it is now, but that could take hundreds of years just until someone figures out how to turn a profit on it.

Money is definitely need, it is a medium of exchange. Otherwise, how will you go about obtaining something you want or need? A system based on bartering leads to suffering. Look at the Wiemar Republic as a good reference. Then think about what it can lead to.

The problem is, money has become more than a medium of exchange. The ability to inflate it is a source of government/ systematic control.

[GoldenBoy812]

Personally, I think money is an outdated idea that is no longer needed. We have the resources and the technology to make the world a much better place than it is now, but that could take hundreds of years just until someone figures out how to turn a profit on it.

Money is definitely need, it is a medium of exchange. Otherwise, how will you go about obtaining something you want or need? A system based on bartering leads to suffering. Look at the Wiemar Republic as a good reference. Then think about what it can lead to.

The problem is, money has become more than a medium of exchange. The ability to inflate it is a source of government/ systematic control.

You cannot have utter collapse of economies, as very ambitious people with malcontent will be lining up (with a highly probable success rate) to exploit for control.