What do you think?

[pinkyslayer]

I've been reading and listening, like most of you, to all of the 'news' about how McCain rallies are growing increasingly violent, and I started to wonder about whether it really was as big a deal as they were making it. So what do y'all think? Is it John McCain or Palin's responsibility to stop their speech and correct the audience members? or do you think it's just practicing free speech when the audience yells things like 'kill him', 'bomb obama', or 'off with his head?'

One thing I kept in my mind while thinking about this is that if I were to go to a corner and gather a group of people around me and start defaming another person, and that in turn led to them becoming restless and angry and (on a rhetorical level) violent, I would be charged with inciting a riot or disturbing the peace. You just can't stir up a crowd to threaten another person's life without some kind of penalty. Unless you're a politician of course. So what's y'all's opinion?

[maladroit]

i think mccain and palin are inciting fear and anger but the violent slogans has a lot to do with the mentality of the people at those rallies...the people yelling out those things can't be too bright in the first place if they think obama is a treasonous muslim terrorist who needs to be taken out one way or another

the secret service are going to be busy protecting president obama from angry retards for the next 4 - 8 years

[happiestmferoutthere]

the secret service are going to be busy protecting president obama from angry retards for the next 4 - 8 years
:( Sad, but true I'm afraid. McCain's slogan of the week is "fight", and I don't doubt the ignorant redneck base will take it literally.

[daihashi]

:( Sad, but true I'm afraid. McCain's slogan of the week is "fight", and I don't doubt the ignorant redneck base will take it literally.

I'm just curious what peoples reaction to your post if you replaced 'redneck' with some other disparging term for another race.

Such as "Sp**" for mexicans, or the N word for black people, or "Ch***" for asians.

You may not realize it but using negative comments in combination with a term (redneck) that you obviously view as bad is not very becoming. It's actually distasteful.

FYI I am not a redneck; hell I'm not even white. :hippy:

[killerweed420]

I don't think the hate mongering has been that bad on the McCain team. I've seen a couple video's where McCain has put people down that are still trying to call Obama a terrorist. Its been the rightwing media that's been pushing most the hate. You're always going to have the mental midgets that are going to fall for these idiots.

[maladroit]

i don't know that redneck is a bad word anymore...it certainly doesn't belong in a class with dreadful words like ones you listed that some filter prevents me from typing in full (??)...calling someone a redneck is on the same level as calling someone an elitist

do you find is distasteful that jeff foxworthy made millions selling books and even games that glorify redneck culture?
http://www.jefffoxworthy.com/comedy/index.html


sarah palin's new son-in-law proudly describes himself as "fucking redneck" on his webpage:
VP candidate's future son-in-law proud to be a redneck | NEWS.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,24286416-5012572,00.html)


redneck country music star pens redneck anthem:
Country singer Brandt proud to be a 'redneck' (http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/features/music/story.html?id=6741c148-adcd-4b19-85b6-da075da836ba&k=43662)


redneck pride! YEE HAW!!
Proud to Be A Redneck- Inspirational stories and poems (http://www.countrywhispers.com/redneckpride/)

[daihashi]

i don't know that redneck is a bad word anymore...it certainly doesn't belong in a class with dreadful words like spic, , and chink...calling someone a redneck is on the same level as calling someone an elitist

do you find is distasteful that jeff foxworthy made millions selling books and even games that glorify redneck culture?
http://www.jefffoxworthy.com/comedy/index.html


sarah palin's new son-in-law proudly describes himself as "fucking redneck" on his webpage:
VP candidate's future son-in-law proud to be a redneck | NEWS.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,24286416-5012572,00.html)


redneck country music star pens redneck anthem:
Country singer Brandt proud to be a 'redneck' (http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/features/music/story.html?id=6741c148-adcd-4b19-85b6-da075da836ba&k=43662)


redneck pride! YEE HAW!!
Proud to Be A Redneck- Inspirational stories and poems (http://www.countrywhispers.com/redneckpride/)

Again, the context in which she used it is a negative term. Which I pointed that out; or I suppose you chose not to read that.

If I said "black people are ignorant".. it would really be the entire statement that would come across as distasteful and wrong. But calling a person black by itself is not wrong. By making a statement like above I am insinuating that only black people are ignorant; or that everyone in that group is ignorant. Which in turn seems racist or bigoted as I would be isolating an entire group of people.

But go ahead and try to spin what was said to what ever angle you see fit. You always do.

[psychocat]

You might be a redneck if your Christmas ornaments are made out of spent shot-gun shells. :D

[maladroit]

i understand the redneck term was used in a negative way, but that is how many proud rednecks see themselves too


they shout slogans boasting of their ignorance like: 'everything i need to know about islam, i learned on 911"

they sing songs about their lack of class:
Redneck Woman lyrics, Gretchen Wilson (http://www.hit-country-music-lyrics.com/redneck-woman-lyrics.html)

they make jokes about their inbreeding, ignorance, and propensity for violence:
jeff foxworthy sez you might be a redneck if:
Your family tree does not fork.
You think a subdivision is part of a math problem.
Youâ??ve ever shot anyone for looking at you.


personally, i don't understand how anyone could be proud of all that but self esteem is a good thing...i grew up in a small fishing town on an island, and i had to endure years of good natured abuse from my new urbanite friends...perhaps the redneck pride movement is a counterbalancing force that blunts the prejudice of non-rednecks by co-opting the prejudice...i was pretty good at telling jokes about dumb fisherfolk gittin the best of them smart city slickers!

[dragonrider]

The McCain campaign is crossing the line from exciting their supporters to inciting them. They do not bear responsibility for everything the dumbasses at their rallies do, but they do bear responsibility for whipping them up and not reining them back in when they cross the line.

Some of the most incendiary rhetoric at the McCain/Palin rallies comes from the people who introduce the candidates. Those are the ones who call him Barack Hussein Obama and question whether he is really a Christian. That kind of crap is someting McCain can control --- he can either expalin the acceptable limits of behavior to these people before he puts them on the stage, or he can cut them off when they veer into the hate-speak. It is pure BS to say he can't control that.

A typical McCain/Palin rally these days seems to start with someone referring to Barack Hussein Obama and questioning whether he is really a Christian. Then Palin goes on stage and says Obama "pals around with terrorists." Then McCain goes on and says Obama is not being truthful, he has "secrets," and then he asks "who is the REAL Barack Obama?" Why are they surprised when the answer the crowd gives them is "terrorist", "Arab", and "traitor?" Why are they surprised people yell "kill him" and "off with his head?" If you tell an angry frustrated crowd that Obama has a muslim name, he's not really a Christian, he pals around with terrorists, and he has secrets, then you bear some responisibiltiy if they think he is an Arab terrorist traitor who should be killed.

After things started to get really ugly at the rallies last week, the McCain camapign started to back off on some of this hateful behavior. McCain corrected one woman last week when she said Obama was an Arab. The fact is that things were gettng so far out of hand that people were getting really turned off by the xenophopbia they were seeing at these rallies. It started hurting the campaign, so they backed it off a few notches.

The Obama campaign has been criticising McCain for the guilt-by-association tactics with Ayers, and now McCain has said he plans to bring up the Ayers link at the debate tonight. I think they are laying a trap for McCain, and it will be interesting to see if he takes the bait. If he does, there are a thousand ways Obama can use it against McCain, but if he doesn't bring it up, his base who is dying for him to do it will be totally pissed off. Damned if you do, damned if you don't, McCain!

McCain created this situation, so I think it is great that it is backfiring on him.

[maladroit]

to his credit, mccain did try to rein them back in...he praised obama as a good family man, and told his angry mob not to fear obama as president

[delusionsofNORMALity]

You might be a redneck if your Christmas ornaments are made out of spent shot-gun shells. :Dhave you been peeking at my xmas photo albums?

no, i ain't really a redneck, just an aging hippie with delusions of normality and a bit of a problem with paranoia (ya ain't paranoid if they really are out to get ya).

"honestly, your honor, i really thought that man was out to do me great bodily harm when i emptied my 12 gauge into him. how was i to know he was only reading the gas meter?"

_________________________________________________

i would add to this thread, but i see little point in stating the obvious fact that both sides are doing the same damn thing and it seems only the democrats are whining about it. rabid partisanship has been a way of life in american politics for as long as the country has existed and if you feel a need to obsess about it you've got bigger problems than i'd want to deal with.

[dragonrider]

Here is the kind of crap that is said at a McCain rally by the official speakers. This is the pastor delivering the invocation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5g0d3_KE5js

That is very thinly veiled hate-speak and the suggestion that Obama is not a Christian. He says that there are millions of non-Christians around the world praying to their Gods, Budha, Hindu, Allah that Obama wins! And then he goes on to warn God to guard his own reputation because those non-Chiristians will think their Gods are greater than the Chirstian God if Obama wins!

Holy Crap! There is so much wrong wioth this that I don't even know where to begin!

First, who is this guy to question if Obama is really a Christian or not! I am not a very religious person myself, and I don't know much about doctrine or dogma, but is a man of God supposed to question another man's committment to Jesus? I sort of thought that if a person says he has accepted Jesus Chirist into his life and that he believes Jesus Christ is his personal savior, then you sort of take him at his word on that. Is it the place of a man of God to question that? Really?

The second thing is how does this guy KNOW that all these millions of non-Christians are praying for Obama to win? And really what would it matter if they were? That is an obvious appeal to xenophobia.

And probably the most outrageous thing is this guy telling God that God needs to guard his own reputation by helping McCain win! That is fucking ridiculous! I think it is an obscene abuse of religious authority when these pastors tell their CONGREGATIONS how God wants them to vote. But to tell GOD how to vote! Where does he get off telling God that he needs to support McCain or people will think other Gods are more powerful than the Christian God! That's some serious balls to tell God who to support in the election! I wonder how God will feel about being told how to vote by this moron.

I think McCain has an obligation to disavow this kind of xenophibic, racist bullshit. He controls who speaks at his rallies, and he should tell them he doesn't want this kind of crap. And if they do say this kind of thing, he should correct them on it.

[maladroit]

uhm, what am i looking at in that video? do people pray before political rallies?

the line about foreigners falsely believing that their god was bigger than our good-guy god if obama wins was hilarious! but i don't think it's going to go over very well in foreign countries


"He went on CNN and he laughed at us, and he said, 'They'll never get me because Allah will protect me. Allah will protect me.' Well, you know what? I knew that my God was bigger than his. I knew that my God was a real God and his was an idol."
- General Jerry Boykin, US Army of One, 2002, informing Baptist church members that their dad can beat up mohammed's dad, (forgetting that they share the same dad)

[bigtopsfinn]

I loved the old lady who, at a McCain rally, said "I'm afraid of Barack Obama because he's Arab"...LOL (this was on the daily show tuesday, you can watch it on their website, or maybe youtube has it). Thankfully, McCain took the mic away from her in an instant and corrected her.

But I think this another example of how people can be so ignorant sometimes, especially when they have to choose between 2 sides.

Why does there have to be 2 sides? Why not 3? Why not 10? Maybe the candidates wouldn't be so busy bashing each other...they might actually try to promote themselves and their policies and what they will do for you... just my two cents.

[daihashi]

Why does there have to be 2 sides? Why not 3? Why not 10? Maybe the candidates wouldn't be so busy bashing each other...they might actually try to promote themselves and their policies and what they will do for you... just my two cents.

This is something I've argued before in the past... the problem is that there would have to be regulation a far as how much of each party was allowed to participate at each level of government; and neither of the two major parties would vote to pass legislation that would put their own power at risk.

I hate to admit it but we're pretty much a hostage of the Republicans and Democrats.

Republicans today are not what Republicans once were; and Democrats propose more socialistic programs everyday that in no way empower people but rather trap them so that they rely on someone else to give them what they need/want.

There are some true Republicans left; and some Democrats that genuinely care about the nation, but they are far and few in between.

[maladroit]

sometimes there aren't even two sides...the debates between bush-gore, bush-kerry, and mccain-obama were like agree-a-thons...the democrats move to the center and hang their christianity on their sleeves to seek moderate republican voters, and the republicans move to the center to reassure moderate conservatives that they're not a party of knee jerk bible thumpers...no matter who wins, the government is centrist...left and right don't mean much anymore (at least in practice)

[bigtopsfinn]

This is something I've argued before in the past... the problem is that there would have to be regulation a far as how much of each party was allowed to participate at each level of government; and neither of the two major parties would vote to pass legislation that would put their own power at risk.

Yes, this is a problem, but is regulation the answer, or should the answer come from the American people?

To bring this back to the topic... I think that for the last three elections, the candidates haven't been all that great. Therefore, these campaigns are geared to steer people away from one candidate instead of towards another. Perhaps this could explain why America is known for its low voter turnout: No appealing candidate.

[dragonrider]

uhm, what am i looking at in that video? do people pray before political rallies?

Sometimes they do have an invocation. Usually the prayer is the kind of non-denominational prayer that you might have in a mixed-group setting --- so you can't really say that the prayer is Chirstian, Jewish, Muslim, etc. And usually they stick to themes of blessing the country, or praying that God will guide the candidates.

To me it is grossly offensive that McCain would have a pastor deliver a prayer that is clearly denominational and actually DISPARAGES other religions! And then it is even more offensive that he prays for McCain's success rather than a blessing on the country as a whole. And of course the most offensive part is how he challenges God to step up and support McCain so God won't appear weak in comaprison to other Gods! What an ASS!

[Psycho4Bud]

I've seen posts in here calling Bush Hitler, republicans racists but THIS crosses the line? GET REAL! It's the same ol' line of crap.

If you going to act like you have scruples then be bi-partisan about it.

Have a good one!:s4:

[Psycho4Bud]

To me it is grossly offensive that McCain would have a pastor deliver a prayer that is clearly denominational and actually DISPARAGES other religions! And then it is even more offensive that he prays for McCain's success rather than a blessing on the country as a whole. And of course the most offensive part is how he challenges God to step up and support McCain so God won't appear weak in comaprison to other Gods! What an ASS!

So how do ya feel about the good Rev. Wright?

Have a good one!:s4:

[dragonrider]

So how do ya feel about the good Rev. Wright?

Have a good one!:s4:

I don't like Wright either.

Obama has disavowed Wright's message and cut the ties. Did McCain disavow this message? This is a guy McCain had do the invocation at his rally! Wright is guilt by association, but this is someone speaking for McCain at his rally! I think that McCain actually giving this guy the stage and having him speak at the rally puts it in a different class.

[maladroit]

whut is an invocation? isn't that just a fancy word for prayer? it sure looked like everyone was praying at that mccain rally...i've never seen anything like that outside of a theocracy...it's creepy...does it happen before every political rally? is it a common practice?

obama rally invocation:
YouTube - FAMU Obama Rally Invocation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1slsMwapJE0&feature=related)

[Psycho4Bud]

I don't like Wright either.

Obama has disavowed Wright's message and cut the ties. Did McCain disavow this message? This is a guy McCain had do the invocation at his rally! Wright is guilt by association, but this is someone speaking for McCain at his rally! I think that McCain actually giving this guy the stage and having him speak at the rally puts it in a different class.

The ONLY reason that Obama dumped Rev. Wright was because it was hurting him at the polls. Until then he was just "that crazy ol' uncle" that he couldn't disavow no more than the Trinity Church which he also dumped after that.

With Rev. Wright, William Ayers, Louis Farrakhan, etc...you'd think that Obama supporters wouldn't want to bring up affiliations with other people.

Have a good one!:s4:

[maladroit]

i think obama should have stuck by rev wright (right or wrong)...he looked like a pussy after the repubs shamed him into turning his back on his preacher...we don't see palin running away from the people who say nutty things in her church, even when she's actually on the altar with them

[dragonrider]

whut is an invocation? isn't that just a fancy word for prayer? it sure looked like everyone was praying at that mccain rally...i've never seen anything like that outside of a theocracy...it's creepy...does it happen before every political rally? is it a common practice?

obama rally invocation:
YouTube - FAMU Obama Rally Invocation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1slsMwapJE0&feature=related)

Yes, an invocation is a prayer.

I agree, I personally do not like to see a prayer at a non-religious service, but it happens at some kinds of events. I've seen them even at official county board meetings, but they are non-denominational enough to not offend any particular religious group, except for atheists who don't want to see any kind of prayer at all. I do not know how common they are at rallies. I could sit through a non-denominational invocation, even if I didn't like it much, but if I had been at this McCain rally, I would have walked out in disgust.

[happiestmferoutthere]

I'm just curious what peoples reaction to your post if you replaced 'redneck' with some other disparging term for another race.

Such as "Sp**" for mexicans, or the N word for black people, or "Ch***" for asians.

You may not realize it but using negative comments in combination with a term (redneck) that you obviously view as bad is not very becoming. It's actually distasteful.

FYI I am not a redneck; hell I'm not even white. :hippy:
I live in an area of 90% demographically white. I am surrounded by hate and ignorance. It wears on me sometimes. Believe me... They are self professed rednecks. They wear that title proudly.

[psychocat]

The mix of politics and religion is a dangerous one. IMO they should never share the same stage.

I hate the whole idea that to win an election you have to bad mouth your opponent, if you're worthy of winning then you shouldn't need to. Unfortunately it seems to be a growing trend amongst all groups to try to distract from thier own shortcomings by pointing out those of others.

[daihashi]

I live in an area of 90% demographically white. I am surrounded by hate and ignorance. It wears on me sometimes. Believe me... They are self professed rednecks. They wear that title proudly.

I'm aware of that; but the context in which you used the term was anything but friendly. Borderline derrogatory... and add ignorance to the mix and it changes it from a positive meaning (self professed rednecks... or even more similarly Black people who refer to each other as h) to something entirely negative and wrong.

Aside from that there are people of all mixes that share the views of the people you were referencing. Ignorance is not isolated to one group of people.

You can find ignorance in the Obama crowd also.

A more accurate/correct statement would've been to say "some supporters in the McCain arena seem to reek of ignorance".

You wouldn't of isolated anyone out there; and it would've reflected much better on you.

My point was the irony in your statement and you trying to display the ignorance you saw in the McCain rallies.

[happiestmferoutthere]

I'm aware of that; but the context in which you used the term was anything but friendly. Borderline derrogatory... and add ignorance to the mix and it changes it from a positive meaning (self professed rednecks... or even more similarly Black people who refer to each other as h) to something entirely negative and wrong.

Aside from that there are people of all mixes that share the views of the people you were referencing. Ignorance is not isolated to one group of people.

You can find ignorance in the Obama crowd also.

A more accurate/correct statement would've been to say "some supporters in the McCain arena seem to reek of ignorance".

You wouldn't of isolated anyone out there; and it would've reflected much better on you.

My point was the irony in your statement and you trying to display the ignorance you saw in the McCain rallies.

Gotcha.:thumbsup: Some supporters in the McCain arena seem to reek of ignorance and I found it somewhat offensive. In my opinion.
Did I go too far again? I'm good at that.:stoned:

[psychocat]

red·neck (rdnk)
n. Offensive Slang
1. Used as a disparaging term for a member of the white rural laboring class, especially in the southern United States.
2. A white person regarded as having a provincial, conservative, often bigoted attitude.

It would seem to be the case that the very word is seen as offensive regardless of it's context.
It would also seem to be an apt way of describing some of the supporters I have seen on the TV. :D

[daihashi]

Gotcha.:thumbsup: Some supporters in the McCain arena seem to reek of ignorance and I found it somewhat offensive. In my opinion.
Did I go too far again? I'm good at that.:stoned:

Word.. and you would be correct. I do feel there is some ignorance to go around for all.. I hope I get some in my christmas stocking this year :hippy:

[daihashi]

It would seem to be the case that the very word is seen as offensive regardless of it's context.
It would also seem to be an apt way of describing some of the supporters I have seen on the TV. :D

I'd rather just call them flat out ignorant... Some of these people could originate from the north for all I know :hippy:

I'm just glad McCain puts these people down whenever he comes across them. It has to be a big PITA to campaign and get these random people who think they're helping you when they really do not reflect your beliefs at all. Oh the sweet sweet life of a politician, lol

[maladroit]

mccain doesn't put them down everytime he comes across them...sometimes he smirks to encourage them...i think he finally started objecting to the angry retards because they were making him look like an angry retard, or worse, an accomplice to criminal acts


Secret Service looking into Obama threat at Palin rally in Pennsylvania
Published: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 | 6:02 PM ET
Canadian Press: Eileen Sullivan, THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

WASHINGTON - The Secret Service is looking into a second allegation that a participant at a Republican political rally shouted "kill him," referring to Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama.

The Scranton Times-Tribune reported that someone in the crowd shouted "kill him" after the mention of Obama's name during a rally Tuesday for Republican vice-presidential nominee Sarah Palin in Scranton, Pa.

Last week, The Washington Post reported a similar incident during a Palin rally in Clearwater, Fla. The Secret Service investigated that allegation and found no indication that "kill him" was ever said, or if it was said, that the remark was directed at Obama.

Listening to tapes of that rally, the Secret Service heard "tell him" or "tell them," but agents never heard "kill him," Secret Service spokesman Eric Zahren told The Associated Press on Wednesday.

In both the Clearwater and the Scranton instances, the Service only learned of the alleged threats through media reports.

"We would ask that anyone overhearing threatening language bring it to the attention of the Secret Service or other law enforcement at the event immediately," Zahren said.

The Secret Service cannot prevent or police poor behaviour at public events, Zahren said, but the agency draws the line at threatening language.

"We do not have the luxury of discounting such language as simply bad taste or bad behaviour without further investigation," he said.

So far, the Secret Service has not found anyone else who heard "kill him" Tuesday except for the Times-Tribune reporter.

Shouts of "traitor," "terrorist," "treason," "liar," and even "off with his head" have rung from the crowd at Republican rallies.

The anti-Obama taunts and jeers are noticeably louder when McCain appears with Palin, a big draw for Republican conservatives. She accused Obama last week of "palling around with terrorists" because of his past, loose association with a 1960s radical.
© The Canadian Press, 2008

[dragonrider]

The thing about the term "redneck" is that it contains the concept of "ingnorant" right in the definition, but some people still love to apply the term to themselves. It doesn't just mean "rural white person." It means "ignorant, bigotted, rural white person." Most of the people who proudly call themselves "rednecks" really do fit the definiton well, all the way down to being ignorant and bigotted. I have nothing against rural white people and have lived in small rural towns of mostly white people, but I can't stand people of any race or culture who are PROUDLY IGNORANT. There seem to be a lot of people in this world who take pride in being anti-intellectual, and that bugs me.

I think Bush was sort of that way. He graduated from Yale and Harvard, but he seems fairly anti-intellectual to me. And Sarah Palin seems that way to me too. Both of them seem like they try to make up for the lack of thoughtful curiosity and analysis by being overly decisive. Like they think that if they show resolve, it makes up for the fact that they don't really know what they are doing. It's really not enough.

And I also think that when politicians talk about "common sense solutions," they are usually grossly oversimplifying something complex. A lot of our issues are complicated and complex, and they require more than just "common sense." Of course, the government does often seem to lack common sense, but that doesn't change the fact that they often try to dumb down the complex issues for "the masses."

[maladroit]

"There seem to be a lot of people in this world who take pride in being anti-intellectual"

- people admire intelligence, but they loathe superiority/elitism/*insert jingoism here*

[pinkyslayer]

"There seem to be a lot of people in this world who take pride in being anti-intellectual"

- people admire intelligence, but they loathe superiority/elitism/*insert jingoism here*

People only admire intelligence that AGREES with them. If someone with an opposing viewpoint speaks intelligently, it's elitism. ;)