Barack Obama's Involvement with ACORN

[Psycho4Bud]

While Barack Obama's connection with the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN) has not gone entirely unreported, it has not been fully explained. Most media background pieces simply note Obama's involvement in a 1995 lawsuit on behalf of ACORN. Obama's own website, as well as most major media, fail to reveal the full depth and extent of his relationship with the organization.

Attempts to hide evidence of Obama's involvement with ACORN have included wiping the web clean of potentially damaging articles that had appeared, and were previously publicly accessible. Unfortunately, those behind the attempted cover-up failed to realize that in today's day and age, nothing disappears forever. There also exists another layer of the web, the hidden web, which is full of information included in proprietary scholarly databases where these very same "missing" articles can be easily uncovered.

Obama's campaign website states:

Fact: Barack was never an ACORN trainer and never worked for ACORN in any other capacity.

Is that really a FACT, or just another lie? Let's take a look at a quote from a 2004 article - Case Study: Chicago- The Barack Obama Campaign - written Toni Foulkes, a Chicago ACORN Leader, which was published in the journal Social Policy. Did we mention that Social Policy recently pulled this particular article from their website, while leaving links to all articles up?

"Obama took the case, known as ACORN vs. Edgar (the name of the Republican governor at the time) and we won. Obama then went on to run a voter registration project with Project VOTE in 1992 that made it possible for Carol Moseley Braun to win the Senate that year. Project VOTE delivered 50,000 newly registered voters in that campaign (ACORN delivered about 5,000 of them).

Since then, we have invited Obama to our leadership training sessions to run the session on power every year, and, as a result, many of our newly developing leaders got to know him before he ever ran for office. Thus it was natural for many of us to be active volunteers in his first campaign for STate Senate and then his failed bid for U.S. Congress in 1996. By the time he ran for U.S. Senate, we were old friends."

Not only does Foulkes boast of Obama's ACORN leadership training, but also makes it clear that Obama's post-law school organizing of "Project VOTE" in 1992 was undertaken in direct partnership with ACORN. The tie between Project VOTE and ACORN is also something that Obama and others have attempted to disprove in recent weeks as ACORN has come under fire for allegations of voter registration fraud.

As recently as March 2008, the Los Angeles Times also made reference to Barack Obama's involvement with ACORN:

"At the time, Talbot worked at the social action group ACORN and initially considered Obama a competitor. But she became so impressed with his work that she invited him to help train her staff." (LA Times, March 2, 2008)

All this information was easily pulled up with minimal time investment. It took less than thirty minutes to find, despite attempts by some to bury the truth. If I could find this with little effort, imagine what could be dug up with a serious, in-depth investigation. Scary, isn't it?

Nevertheless, Barack Obama's campaign website continues to lie and deny the truth about his involvement and association with ACORN. No matter how many times you say it, it does not make it true. The facts do not lie, Senator Obama. It's time to come clean and tell the truth, and it's time for the American people to demand it.
Barack Obama's Involvement with ACORN Unearthed, Missing Articles Recovered | Cleveland Leader (http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/7203)

shhhhhhh....this doesn't matter either. I can't believe people that are so hard core about "change" are picking one of the crookedest people in Washington today. ACORN, William Ayers, Rezko, Rev. Wright and the list goes on.

In the days of Carter we had all three houses in government run by the dems and after that, LOL....look up the history for yourself. Cut defense, feed the poor, tax the rich and businesses.......LMAO!!! There'll be PLENTY of jobs to go around.

Have a good one!:s4:

[Psycho4Bud]

MOSINEE, Wisc. -- After this afternoonâ??s town hall the McCain campaign might be satisfied that their recent attacks on Obama are starting to seep into the public consciousness, or at least the consciousness of conservative voters in Waukesha.

At the campaignâ??s second joint town hall event featuring both McCain and his running mate, several McCain talking points were echoed back to the candidates by questioners including Obamaâ??s â??shadyâ?� associations, which were brought up twice by members of the audience.

One questioner railed against â??the socialists taking over our countryâ?� who he later identified as â??Obama, Pelosi and the rest of the hooligansâ?� in Congressâ?? Democratic majority, and an Iraq War veteran in the audience even brought up Obamaâ??s comments about troops in Afghanistan â??killing civiliansâ?� that are often used as an attack line by McCain.

â??Weâ??re all wondering why that Obama is where heâ??s at, how he got here,â?� one questioner asked McCain. â??I mean everybody in this room is stunned that weâ??re in this position. We are all a product of our associations, is there not a way to get around this media and line up the people that he has hung with?â?�

This question prompted McCain to address Obamaâ??s relationship with Bill Ayers for the first time on the campaign trail, although he avoided using his name and instead focused his attack on â??whether Sen. Obama is telling the truth to the American people or not.â?�

â??With your help and the people in this room, we will find out just as Sen. Clinton said in the primary that we should find out about this association,â?� McCain said. â??Look, we donâ??t care about an old, washed up terrorist and his wife who still, at least on Sept. 11, 2001 said he still wanted to bomb more, thatâ??s not the point here. The point is Sen. Obama said he was just a guy in the neighborhood. We know thatâ??s not true. We need to know the full extent of the relationship.â?�

A local African-American conservative talk radio host named James T. Harris also brought up what he called Obamaâ??s â??soft spot,â?� which he said included â??ACORN,â?� â??the good Rev.Wright,â?� and other â??shady characters that have surrounded him.â?�

â??I am begging you, sir," Harris said. "I am begging you. Take it to him.â?�

Earlier in the event, several attendees in the balcony of the local sports complex were yelling â??ACORNâ?� so loudly that McCain was compelled to address it.

â??Now, let me just say to you, there are serious allegations of voter fraud in the battleground states across America," McCain said. "They must be investigated and no one should corrupt the most precious right we have, and that is the right to vote.

"My friends, youâ??ve seen, youâ??ve seen the allegations, the multiple registrations under the same name, the more registered voters than the population. Youâ??ve seen these are serious allegations, my friends, and they must be investigated, and they must be investigated immediately, and they must stopped before November, the 4th, so Americans will not, will not be deprived of a fair process in this election. Thank you.â?�
McCain supporters rail against Obama - First Read - msnbc.com (http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/10/09/1523729.aspx)

Anybody else see this one on t.v.?

Have a good one!:s4:

[rebgirl420]

While I believe that certain items from his past like Rev. Wright isn't really that big of an issue (I feel this way b/c I feel you could find crazy shit from EVERY politicians background that seems askew) I feel that this story (ACORN) and the Ayers case def show that Obama has had some really bad lapses of intelligence when it comes to who he picks as friends and allies.

ACORN is all over the news right now for cases of voter fraud yet you barely hear the ties between Obama and this organization see to be missing, or at least dismissed as "C" level news. Thats fine, I just don't lke the hypocracy. If McCain had ties to ACORN or Ayers it would be front page news.

[maladroit]

Obama Never Organized with ACORN

Discredited Republican voter-suppression guru Ken Blackwell is attacking Barack Obama with naked lies about his supposed connection to ACORN.

â?¢ Fact: Barack was never an ACORN community organizer.
â?¢ Fact: Barack was never an ACORN trainer and never worked for ACORN in any other capacity.
â?¢ Fact: ACORN was not part of Project Vote, the successful voter registration drive Barack ran in 1992.

In his capacity as an attorney, Barack represented ACORN in a successful lawsuit alongside the U.S. Department of Justice against the state of Illinois to force state compliance with a federal voting access law. For his work helping enforce the law, called â??Motor Voter,â?� Barack received the IVI-IPO Legal Eagle Award in 1995. (For more about Barackâ??s career, check out our Obama bio.)

Ken Blackwell is best known today for disenfranchising Democratic voters in his dual role as Ohio Secretary of State and chair of George Bushâ??s Ohio campaign in 2004. To see him shed crocodile tears for the integrity of the vote while making accusations about Barack and ACORN with absolutely no basis in fact is disturbing.

Blackwellâ??s attacks against ACORN and community organizers continue a vile Republican pattern of mockery and viciousness against this noble profession. Community organizers are the very individuals Republicans should be celebrating for helping people to help themselves rather than depending on the government.
BARACK WAS PRAISED FOR COMPLETING PROJECT VOTE; ACORN WAS NOT INVOLVED

Obamaâ??s Voter Registration Drive Registered 150,000 New Voters, The Highest Number of a Single Local Effort. In 1993, Crainâ??s Chicago wrote of Obamaâ??s effort to register voters for Bill Clintonâ??s election, â??Last year, Barack Obama galvanized Chicagoâ??s political community, as no seasoned politico had before. The director of Illinois Project Vote orchestrated an unwieldy band of 10 staff members and 700 volunteers to the tune of 150,000 new voters for the general election â?? the highest number registered in a single local effect. â??Under Barackâ??s leadership, we had the most successful, cost-effective and orderly voter registration drive Iâ??ve ever been involved with,â?? says Alderman Sam Burrell of the West Sideâ??s 29th Ward.â?� [Crainâ??s Chicago Business, 9/27/93]

Chicago Magazine: Obama Headed â??Most Effective Minority Voter Registration Drive.â?� Chicago Magazine reported, â??None of this, of course, was accidental. The most effective minority voter registration drive in memory was the result of careful handiwork by Project Vote!, the local chapter of a not-for-profit national organization. "It was the most efficient campaign I have seen in my 20 years in politics," says Sam Burrell, alderman of the West Sideâ??s 29th Ward and a veteran of many registration drives. At the head of this effort was a little-known 31-year-old African-American lawyer, community organizer, and writer: Barack Obama.â?� [Chicago Magazine, 1/93]

National Project Vote Director Sandy Newman: Obama Did â??One Hell of a Job.â?� Chicago Magazine reported, â??â??Project Vote! is nonpartisan, strictly nonpartisan. But we do focus our efforts on minority voters, and on states where we can explain to them why their vote will matter. Braun made that easier in Illinois.â?� So [Sandy] Newman decided to open a Cook County Project Vote! office and went looking for someone to head it. The name Barack Obama surfaced. â??I was asking around among community activists in Chicago and around the country, and they kept mentioning him,â?� Newman says. Obama by then was working with church and community leaders on the West Side, and he was writing a book that the publisher Simon & Schuster had contracted for while he was editor of the law review. He was 30 years old. When Newman called, Obama agreed to put his other work aside. â??Iâ??m still not quite sure why,â?� Newman says. â??This was not glamorous, high-paying work. But I am certainly grateful. He did one hell of a job.â?� [Chicago Magazine, 1/93]

Obama Trained Registrars And Ran Media Saturation Campaign. Chicago Magazine reported, â??Within a few months, Obama, a tall, affable workaholic, had recruited staff and volunteers from black churches, community groups, and politicians. He helped train 700 deputy registrars, out of a total of 11,000 citywide. And he began a saturation media campaign with the help of black-owned Brainstorm Communications.â?� [Chicago Magazine, 1/93]

Close Daley Advisor: â??Barack Ran This Superbly.â?� Chicago Magazine reported, â??Some of Daleyâ??s closest advisers are similarly impressed. â??In its technical demands, a voter-registration drive is not unlike a mini-political campaign,â?� says John Schmidt, chairman of the Metropolitan Pier and Exposition Authority and a fundraiser for Project Vote! â??Barack ran this superbly. I have no doubt he could run an equally good political campaign if thatâ??s what he decided to do next.â?�â?� [Chicago Magazine, 1/93]

Project Vote Credited With Voter Registration Surge. The Wall Street Journal reported, â??Voting experts at the Democratic National Committee point to surging registration in several big cities, such as Detroit, Chicago and Philadelphia. Most of that work has been done by the nonpartisan Project Vote, a voter participation organization based in Washington, D.C. Its director, Sandy Newman, says his group has helped to register 150,000 new voters, almost all of them black, in Pennsylvania; 110,000 in Chicago; 70,000 in Michigan; 40,000 in Ohio; and 160,000 (with the help of the New York Public Interest Research Group) in New York City. With the exception of New York, where Mr. Clinton holds a big lead, these are all battleground states, and most of these voters will cast their ballots for Mr. Clinton.â?� [Wall Street Journal, 10/30/92]

Chicago Sun Times Headline: â??â??Project Voteâ?? Brings Power to the People.â?� The Chicago Sun-Times reported, â??Project Vote, a collectivity of 10 church-based community organizations dedicated to black voter registration, is off and running. Project Vote is increasing its rolls at a 7,000-per-week clip. Just last Saturday it registered 2,000 during the Chicago Defenderâ??s annual Bud Billiken Parade.â?� [Chicago Sun-Times, 8/11/92]

BARACK REPRESENTED ACORN IN A VOTER RIGHTS CASE AS AN ATTORNEY

Obama And Other Attorneys Represented ACORN In Their Suit Against The State Of Illinois To Force It To Implement The 1993 Motor Voter Law. In 2007, the AP reported, â??Representing the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN), Obama and other attorneys sued the state of Illinois, forcing it to implement federal â??Motor Voterâ?? legislation that makes it easier for the poor and minorities to register to vote.â?� According the U.S. Court Of Appeals, 7th Circuit docket for ACORN v. Edgar, â??Appellees, United States and others, sought to force appellant State of Illinois to comply with the provisions of the National Registration Act of 1993 (motor voter law)â?¦The United States District Court for the Northern District of Illinois granted the United States an injunction that compelled the State of Illinois to enforce the motor voter law. The State of Illinois appealedâ?¦On appeal, the State of Illinois argued that Congress could not force state governments to administer a federal program that facilitated the registration of voters in federal elections. The court stated that Congress had the power to regulate federal elections under the powers granted by [the U.S. Constitution] mandated the states to initially set up the system of federal elections within their own jurisdiction, subject to the whims of Congress. The court found that these powers and mandates implicitly extended to voter registration as well. [AP, 2/20/07; ACORN, et al v. Edgar, Nos. 95-1800, 95-1801, 95-1802, 95-1803]

Ã? Obama Was One Of Three Miner Barnhill Attorneys To Represent ACORN When The Illinois State Board Of Elections Attempted To Dismiss The U.S. District Courtâ??s Order In ACORN v. Edgar In Late 1995. Miner Barnhill Attorneys Obama, Judson Miner, and Jeffrey Cummings were listed as Counsel for ACORN when the Illinois State Board Of Elections attempted to dismiss the U.S. District Courtâ??s order in ACORN v. Edgar in November 1995. On January 26, 1996, the U.S. Court Of Appeals denied the Boardâ??s motion. According to the courtâ??s opinion, â??The court dismissed the appeal of defendant governor and other state officials because the district court had not issued a final order from which an appeal could be brought. [ACORN v. Illinois State Board Of Elections, et al. No. 95-3456, U.S. Court Of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit]

Ã? Obama Was Listed As The Lead Attorney For ACORN In Court Proceeding Regarding Illinois Motor Voter Implementation Plans; Deval Patrick Was The Lead Attorney For The U.S. Department Of Justice. â??For United States of America: Deval L. Patrick, Assistant Attorney General, James B. Burns, United States Attorney, Elizabeth Johnson, Barry H. Weinberg, Tricia A. Tingle, Peter A. Hernandez, Attorneys, Voting Section, Civil Rights Division, Department of Justice, Washington, DCâ?¦.For Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, Barack Obama, Esq., Davis, Miner, Barnhill & Galland, Chicago, Illinois, Steve Bachmann, Esq., ACORN, Granger, Indiana.â?� [ACORN v. Edgar, United States District Court, Northern District, Illinois, No. 95 C 174]

1995: Obama Received The IVI-IPO Legal Eagle Award For IVI-IPO For His Work In Bringing Illinois Into Compliance With The Motor Voter Law. â??In 1993, Obama was named by Crainâ??s Chicago Business as one of â??40 under 40â?� outstanding young leaders in the city of Chicago. He is the recipient of the 1995 Legal Eagle Award from IVI-IPO for his work in bringing Illinois into compliance with the National Voter Registration Act (Motor-Voter). His commentaries have been heard on National Public Radio and his memoir Dreams of My Father was published by Random House in August 1995.â?� [IL State Senate Majority Caucus Obama Profile (Archived) available here]

Fight the Smears: Barack Obama Never Organized with ACORN (http://fightthesmears.com/articles/20/acornrumor)

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Pardon my exceptionally stoned state of mind right now, but I read about half the article and skimmed the rest, and I don't see what exactly this "ACORN" group is about, or why it's so scandelous to be linked to them.

[Psycho4Bud]

The Associated Press: ACORN office in Vegas raided in voter-fraud probe (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hvb0LfZQ5mY-X8PYSvYxTe3QGgdgD93LPR783)

The Associated Press: Missouri officials suspect fake voter registration (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hNf_-bBZls_mvLIRCFJtlkMM3mhAD93MIVPO1)

Felons Paid to Register Wisconsin Voters - MarketWatch (http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/felons-paid-register-wisconsin-voters/story.aspx?guid=%7B77B7810C-30D9-4DD5-8988-6658B754A904%7D&dist=hppr)

http://boards.cannabis.com/politics/163241-acorn-issue-fueling-bailout-opposition.html

ACORN is a VERY good group...my mistake. Don't see why Obama wouldn't be proud of having affiliations with this group.

Have a good one!:s4:

[Psycho4Bud]

A federal judge ruled this evening that Ohio Secretary of State Jennifer Brunner is breaking federal law by not giving county elections boards the chance to determine whether new voter registrations are fraudulent.

In uploading the Ohio Republican Party's request for a court order, Judge George C. Smith of the U.S. District Court in Columbus said, "It is hard to imagine a public interest more compelling than safeguarding the legitimacy of the election of the president of the United States."

Smith said that the Help America Vote Act requires states to not only verify the identity of newly registered voters with the state Bureau of Motor Vehicles and the federal Social Security Administration, but also to provide counties with the names of new voters whose records did not match.

Jennifer Brunner had been doing verification, but had not made the names available to county elections boards. Judge Smith gave Brunner a week to comply.

Once countries have the list, however, the judge said that he did not have the authority to order them to clean up the voter rolls. He also cited the "millions of qualified electors across the state of Ohio whose confidence in the electoral process will be undermined if new voter registrations are not verified in accordance with HAVA, and if unqualified individuals are permited to cast votes. This would demean the voting process and unlawfully dilute the votes of qualified voters."

Brunner's office said that she is filing an immediate appeal with the 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals:

â??My office will do everything within its power to ensure that the stateâ??s 88 county boards of elections can continue to allow early voting to proceed uninterrupted and to assist them with their preparation to ensure a smooth election for the voters of Ohio."

Smith emphasized the urgency of the situation in light of the deadline next Thursday to challenge absentee voters. On October 25 elections workers can remove ballots from envelops that contain the only identifying information about who cast them.

In announcing his decision, Smith cited questionable activity by one group that has registered thousands of new Ohio voters, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN).

Kevin DeWine, Ohio Republican Party Deputy Chairman, said the ruling said a lot about Brunner:

â??Her refusal to comply with federal law raises serious concerns about her ability to objectively oversee this election. It's especially troubling in light of her connection to ACORN and that group's stunning confession this week of fraudulent registration activity happening right here in Ohio,â?� he said.
Judge Rules Ohio Secretary of State is Breaking Federal Election Law, Must Check for Voter Fraud | Cleveland Leader (http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/7207)

I guess Cleveland's politics is just as dirty as Chicago's.

Have a good one!:s4:

[daihashi]

Fight the Smears: Barack Obama Never Organized with ACORN (http://fightthesmears.com/articles/20/acornrumor)

You missed the fact that there is cached information on the web.. old articles that are undeniable.

And if you watch your web browser status bar when you go to fightthesmears.com you will see it pulls data from barackobama.com, hardly a neutral website.

What I found most amusing was that the Article, much like you, found a way to link Bush into all of this.

But I assume you'll fight this to the end insisting that you're right without any concrete information or evidence to prove otherwise. Unlike fightthesmears.com and you insisting that Acorn is legit and Barack Obama never was a part of them... there is tons of information out there that states otherwise by credible news sources; even many of which that tend to lean to the left like the associated press.

When I need a good laugh I know I can always turn to you. :hippy:

Tip: When googling for information to counter a poster... do more research than posting information from the first link that pops up. You have to click link after link to ensure that the information you're posting doesn't contradict everything else that's out there and that the information you're sourcing is not partisan or reaks of media bias. Otherwise no one will take you seriously and you just look silly.

[JakeMartinez]

In my research on the subject, I've come to understand three points.

1) ACORN, although crooked in the way of registering nonexistant voters (understandably fucked up beyond belief), and supporting the subprime loans that were part of the cause of our current recession, is not that bad of an organization. I'd like to remind everyone that humans are easily corrupted, and that the cases of voter fraud are, for all we know, isolated incidents. Too little to draw a conclusion on the whole organization.

2) Barack Obama worked with, but NOT FOR, the group in Chicago, where they have not been accused of voter fraud.


3) The change in language on Obama's website was trying to clarify point number 2.

My conclusion: Some people within ACORN fucked up big. Obama has a very large chance of having never even spoken with any of the idiots who committed those crimes. Show me proof to the contrary, or evidence that Obama was hired by ACORN for anything except his powers as a lawyer, and I'll believe you.

Also mentioned, the whole Bill Ayers thing...

Ayers was a terrorist of sorts during the 60's and early 70's. Since then he has both been quoted as being repentent and unrepentent, and has disputed how he was quoted when interviewed a few years ago. The article that came out said he didn't regret setting bombs and wished they could have done more, but Ayers has said that his words were distorted. He claims what he really said was that he didn't regret trying to fight against the war and wished they could have done more to stop it.

What I'm getting at here is that the man hasn't committed a remotely terrorist act for 30 years, for fuck's sake. Don't you people believe in reconciliation? Fresh starts? Anything? Not only that, but the only connections between the two are campaign parties Ayers hosted in support of Obama. It's not like they were scheming world domination and terrorist attacks in the back of some dingy Chicago strip club.

[daihashi]

What I'm getting at here is that the man hasn't committed a remotely terrorist act for 30 years, for fuck's sake. Don't you people believe in reconciliation? Fresh starts? Anything? Not only that, but the only connections between the two are campaign parties Ayers hosted in support of Obama. It's not like they were scheming world domination and terrorist attacks in the back of some dingy Chicago strip club.

The man should be in jail. The only reason he is not in jail with his buddies is because he got off on a legal technicality. I'm sorry, but Charles Manson hasn't killed anyone in over 30 years (to my knowledge). Does he deserve a second chance?

I hate the argument that it's ok because he hasn't done it in 30 years. If the man were in jail no one would be saying that. The audacity of what he did would be amplified for the simple fact that he would be in jail. It's gives false perception that "it's ok" that he was a terrorist over 30 years ago.

Guess what, it's really not OK. And the fact that Obama is friends with him is not the root of the problem. It's that what kind of message does it send across when he says he's tough on terrorism but then he's friends with a former terrorist.

Here are full quotes from the pbs website which has the interview in it's entirety



In the film, Mark Rudd talks about his qualms and his very divided feelings about what he did. You donâ??t make any equivalent statement, and I wondered why notâ?¦ How do you feel about what you did? Would you do it again under similar circumstances?

"Bill Ayers: Iâ??ve thought about this a lot. Being almost 60, itâ??s impossible to not have lots and lots of regrets about lots and lots of things, but the question of did we do something that was horrendous, awful?â?¦ I donâ??t think so. I think what we did was to respond to a situation that was unconscionable.

Two thousand people a day were being murdered in Vietnam in a terrorist war, an official terrorist warâ?¦ This was what was going on in our names. So we tried to resist it, tried to fight it. Built a huge mass movement, built a huge organization, and still the war went on and escalated. And every day we didnâ??t stop the war, two thousand people would be killed. I donâ??t think what we did was extremeâ?¦. We didnâ??t cross lines that were completely unacceptable. I donâ??t think so. We destroyed property in a fairly restrained level, given what we were up against. "

Independent Lens . THE WEATHER UNDERGROUND . Exclusive Interview | PBS (http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/weatherunderground/interview.html)

I posted that because it's an actual quote from him and not a tidbit like in the times piece, but here's the times piece:

No Regrets for a Love Of Explosives; In a Memoir of Sorts, a War Protester Talks of Life With the Weathermen - New York Times (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F02E1DE1438F932A2575AC0A9679C8B 63)

In addition other radical groups at the time wanted nothing to do with the Weather Underground. The Black Panthers for instance, whom the weatherunderground thought they were friends with have been quoted as saying that they were immature and a dangerous group.

There's an entire news reel clip of this on the documentary "Weather Underground". I suggest anyone who wants to know more about Ayers and the organization he was a part of to go out and watch it. You can view it streaming on Netflix.

Anyway point being this. Ayers was a terrorist, nothing will ever change this fact nor the fact that he should be in jail along with Bernadine Dorn. His other partners in crime are. If he were then no one would be protecting him as they are today. The impact of what he did would ring across America simply because he would be behind bars, but because he's not people feel that he deserves a second chance. What about all of his comrades that are in jail. Do they deserve a second chance?

[issachar]

haven't done much research on this but this is how I understand it

the people who worked for ACORN in registering new voters in poor communities padded their registration numbers so they would get paid more money at the end of the day, which is somewhat understandable since many of them came from the same communities and probably need the extra cash. while this is definitely fudging their new registrants numbers it isn't considered voter fraud until someone actually tries to vote using these fake names, and if they did it to get more money I very highly doubt anyone will try to even use them making their potential impact on the election almost nothing

as for Ayers, Rezko, Wright and maybe others whose names I've forgotten

so the fuck what?

I hear this come up everywhere nowadays and I have to know this, how exactly does an association with these people, however major or minor that association was, influence the decisions or policies of a potentially Obama administration?

because honestly I'm dying to know, what specifically does anybody think will happen that will honestly have any impact on the lives of Americans through an association with these people? do you think he will include them in his cabinet to help make all his decisions? will he try to appoint one of them to the Supreme Court or other government offices? will he grant them favors and abuse his power? will he pardon them should any of them get caught with their hand in the cookie jar?

how exactly have these people influenced him to the point that he is forever stained by their radical beliefs and would make decisions that would fall in with these beliefs that will effect the rest of America?

and don't give me some bullshit that it affects his integrity or image, because image and perception can be bought through the media, as for a problem with his integrity, well... integrity and politician shouldn't even be in the same sentence in the first place

this is nothing but guilt by association, but I guess at this point it's all the McCain supporters have

[daihashi]

Here's the reel clip of a spokesman of the black panthers commenting on the weather underground.

They didn't say they were dangerous.. they said they were culturistic in that the leaders take their people into situations to where they will be massacred. There was a slew of other comments the Panthers guy said that were far from good.

YouTube - Black Panthers on the Weather Underground (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJ9zPySHbuY)

[daihashi]

as for Ayers, Rezko, Wright and maybe others whose names I've forgotten

so the fuck what?

I hear this come up everywhere nowadays and I have to know this, how exactly does an association with these people, however major or minor that association was, influence the decisions or policies of a potentially Obama administration?



Sigh, that's just it. Individually these people mean nothing. When William Wright first came on the scene.. I gave Obama a free pass because we all have someone crazy in our lives. Then came Ayers, Rezko, Chris Dodd, Jim Johnson, and the list continues on and on...

Individually they mean nothing. Combined they show a history of extremely poor judgement.

It is this poor judgement and decision making that is the problem; not so much the individuals themselves.

And contrary to popular belief.. Obama wouldn't be strong on the Economy (neither would McCain). So really what does Obama have left?

Health care? Sorry I'm not for socialized Health Care, at the same time I could care less about McCains plan either. They're both pretty crappy if you ask me.

Taxation? Up until recently Obama planned to raise taxes on incomes 200k and above (maybe it was 250k) which would include many small businesses. Recently (I believe yesterday) he said he plans to now give them tax breaks that would be immediatley available. This is after he caught flak for his tax plan.

There are many reasons that people do not like Obama and it's those same reasons that Obama only has a single digit lead.

Zogby International (http://www.zogby.com/)
Presidential poll tracker - USATODAY.com (http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/poll-tracker.htm)

Obama's lead is not that great.

In either case; I'm sorry you feel people are picking on poor old Obama, but I assure you that if you looked beyond the surface of things you would find that it is not the case.

[DaBudhaStank]

I agree, Ayers should be in prison. He broke some serious work and endangered lives. But he isn't. Bush (yup, bringing in bush) should also be in prison, or at least impeached, for falsifying evidence against Iraq (dont gimme that "bad intellogence" bullshit either). The point is, theres tooooooo many people that should be in jail that aren't, refer to this whole bailout situation and how we PAY the people who fucked us.

As for the tax plan, its nothing but he said she said anymore. Obama says he'll raise taxes for people who make 250k or more a year, give back to us who make 150k or less, and nothing for the in between. He claims most small businesses fall into in between. I'm willing to believe that. McCain just keeps saying Obama's gonna raise your taxes, which just isn't true. Also, now there's the Troopergate thing, which isn't gonna go anywhere because no one wants to think she could actually be spiteful and vengeful.

Personally, I'd probably pick Ayers if he ran for President than Palin if she ever did. Having her anywhere even within a mile of the White House is honestly terrifying to me. I think Sarah Palin will do far worse for the world at large than any of these other politicians, maybe even in history, and it seems like a lot of Americans are hoping it happens too. She really has nothing to offer. But yeah, I digressed a bit there.

[issachar]

Sigh, that's just it. Individually these people mean nothing. When William Wright first came on the scene.. I gave Obama a free pass because we all have someone crazy in our lives. Then came Ayers, Rezko, Chris Dodd, Jim Johnson, and the list continues on and on...

Individually they mean nothing. Combined they show a history of extremely poor judgement.

It is this poor judgement and decision making that is the problem; not so much the individuals themselves.

I think you're jumping the gun a little in saying poor judgment, there is alot of spin from both sides that it may be years before we ever know the full extent of his involvement with these people and how close he was to them, but I'll bite and say that yes, it probably was poor judgment on his part. Then again hindsight is always 20/20, at the time he probably wasn't considering running for president and didn't believe it would come back to haunt his campaign. Also who's to say that he didn't learn from his (maybe) mistakes?

But even with his poor judgment and decision making abilities it's not as if he would make all the decisions by himself, a president has his cabinet, staff, and any number of advisors that would specialize in different segments of the government and give their opinion on any major decision a president would have to make, and a good president would take that advice into consideration. At least that is how I understand it to work.

If you find a persons judgment and decision making that important then you might want to look closer at McCain, he was a POW for 5 years and tortured (probably) daily for a good deal of that time. By the time he came back to the states he couldn't lift his arms above his head and his hair had turned white. You can't go through that kind of experience and come back the same person you once where, none of us have any idea of the kind of things that he might have seen. I'm positive that to this day he suffers from at least one kind of mental disorder, but of course we can't be sure since he hasn't released his medical reports. His "erratic" behavior and some reports of "extreme rage", along with the increasingly nasty way his campaign has been conducting itself just reinforce it in my eyes. Either McCain has developed a win at all costs mentality, or his campaign managers have convinced him that this is the way he would win, which just makes me believe he's susceptible to manipulation.


And contrary to popular belief.. Obama wouldn't be strong on the Economy (neither would McCain). So really what does Obama have left?

I think you're right that both of them aren't strong on the economy, but when something like this happens the incumbent party is the one that takes the fall, even if they're weren't totally responsible.


Health care? Sorry I'm not for socialized Health Care, at the same time I could care less about McCains plan either. They're both pretty crappy if you ask me.

Again I think you're right, though I do believe the government should try to help provide coverage for low income families, but that's a different debate.


Taxation? Up until recently Obama planned to raise taxes on incomes 200k and above (maybe it was 250k) which would include many small businesses. Recently (I believe yesterday) he said he plans to now give them tax breaks that would be immediatley available. This is after he caught flak for his tax plan.

I also think the majority of people who make the 250k a year are small businesses as well, other than high ranking corporate positions I know of no jobs that pay a salary of 250k+ a year to a single person. What bothered me about his tax plan was that he never specified if these new taxes would be applied to gross income, meaning the total amount of income a small business would make, or net income of the business owner after they paid their employees along with all the taxes required; a higher tax on gross income could very easily cost many jobs. Either way this country is too deep in the hole to cut taxes for anyone I'm afraid, maybe now politicians will take a closer look at the amount of money possible with full legalization.



There are many reasons that people do not like Obama and it's those same reasons that Obama only has a single digit lead.

Zogby International (http://www.zogby.com/)
Presidential poll tracker - USATODAY.com (http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/poll-tracker.htm)

Obama's lead is not that great.

Exactly, there are enough issues that people can take to both sides which is why I'm annoyed whenever people try to play the guilt by association game. As for polls people can argue whether or not their techniques are still relevant, but in general I think they are fairly reliable, but the electoral college decides who wins and they don't always go with the popular vote. I like to look at the swing state map on politico every few days to see how the polls for each state are doing; up until a few weeks ago both McCain and Obama were nearly dead even in predicted electoral votes, but after the economy started falling nearly every state on McCains side has leaned to Obama.


In either case; I'm sorry you feel people are picking on poor old Obama, but I assure you that if you looked beyond the surface of things you would find that it is not the case.

I found that somewhat condescending but whatever it isn't a big deal.

[JakeMartinez]

The man should be in jail. The only reason he is not in jail with his buddies is because he got off on a legal technicality. I'm sorry, but Charles Manson hasn't killed anyone in over 30 years (to my knowledge). Does he deserve a second chance?

I hate the argument that it's ok because he hasn't done it in 30 years. If the man were in jail no one would be saying that. The audacity of what he did would be amplified for the simple fact that he would be in jail. It's gives false perception that "it's ok" that he was a terrorist over 30 years ago.

Guess what, it's really not OK. And the fact that Obama is friends with him is not the root of the problem. It's that what kind of message does it send across when he says he's tough on terrorism but then he's friends with a former terrorist.

Here are full quotes from the pbs website which has the interview in it's entirety




"Bill Ayers: Iâ??ve thought about this a lot. Being almost 60, itâ??s impossible to not have lots and lots of regrets about lots and lots of things, but the question of did we do something that was horrendous, awful?â?¦ I donâ??t think so. I think what we did was to respond to a situation that was unconscionable.

Two thousand people a day were being murdered in Vietnam in a terrorist war, an official terrorist warâ?¦ This was what was going on in our names. So we tried to resist it, tried to fight it. Built a huge mass movement, built a huge organization, and still the war went on and escalated. And every day we didnâ??t stop the war, two thousand people would be killed. I donâ??t think what we did was extremeâ?¦. We didnâ??t cross lines that were completely unacceptable. I donâ??t think so. We destroyed property in a fairly restrained level, given what we were up against. "

Independent Lens . THE WEATHER UNDERGROUND . Exclusive Interview | PBS (http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/weatherunderground/interview.html)

I posted that because it's an actual quote from him and not a tidbit like in the times piece, but here's the times piece:

No Regrets for a Love Of Explosives; In a Memoir of Sorts, a War Protester Talks of Life With the Weathermen - New York Times (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F02E1DE1438F932A2575AC0A9679C8B 63)

In addition other radical groups at the time wanted nothing to do with the Weather Underground. The Black Panthers for instance, whom the weatherunderground thought they were friends with have been quoted as saying that they were immature and a dangerous group.

There's an entire news reel clip of this on the documentary "Weather Underground". I suggest anyone who wants to know more about Ayers and the organization he was a part of to go out and watch it. You can view it streaming on Netflix.

Anyway point being this. Ayers was a terrorist, nothing will ever change this fact nor the fact that he should be in jail along with Bernadine Dorn. His other partners in crime are. If he were then no one would be protecting him as they are today. The impact of what he did would ring across America simply because he would be behind bars, but because he's not people feel that he deserves a second chance. What about all of his comrades that are in jail. Do they deserve a second chance?

I'm sure you do thorough background checks on anyone you associate with. Never know in this day and age who's considered a terrorist.

This argument is absurd on all levels. But, if you want to say this shows a major lapse of judgment, then what about McCain and the Keating 5? Just because he got let go doesn't mean that he wasn't guilty of associating with the other scandalous senators.

I guess it's just not that political since it's easy to find out everything you want about the Keating 5, but Obama-Ayers is a mystery so it's more appealing.

Especially to attack-dog politicians.

Oh, by the way, I may support Obama but I'm still skeptical about any controversy either candidate has. I always want proof, not conjecture.

[daihashi]

I'm sure you do thorough background checks on anyone you associate with. Never know in this day and age who's considered a terrorist.

Well considering that none of my friends or people I know are WELL KNOWN terrorists.. No I don't. You're right, but again There's a difference between a self acknowledged terrorist and someone hiding in the shadows. I'm not sure how you were trying to argue your point with this statement.


This argument is absurd on all levels. But, if you want to say this shows a major lapse of judgment, then what about McCain and the Keating 5? Just because he got let go doesn't mean that he wasn't guilty of associating with the other scandalous senators.

Let's use people on cannabis.com in the legal forum as an example of poor judgement. "Should I drive with weed in my car?".... "Should I hire a lawyer?"... "Should I be driving while smoking at the same time.". Example of time after time of bad judgement. Sorry, but if you choose bad person after bad person to enter your life and then choose to leave them there then you are just asking for trouble. It doesn't mean that you yourself are a bad person, just pretty darn stupid for keeping them in your life.

And you're right, it doesn't mean anything just because he was let go. Maybe Obama should bring that up.

I get the sense that between this post and your post on the other thread that you are taking this personally. If you are and you continue you can't blame me if I decide to have a little fun with you. Keep it up ;)




I guess it's just not that political since it's easy to find out everything you want about the Keating 5, but Obama-Ayers is a mystery so it's more appealing.

Which brings to question.. Why is it a mystery. Why would something so seemingly innocent have to be kept under wraps.

And again, how can you be tough on terrorism and yet be friends with a terrorist.

Probably more bothersome to me is that you defending an unrepentant terrorist, but that is neither for this thread nor these forums probably. I just feels it reflects on you poorly. However you're not running for any office so I could care less ;)



Especially to attack-dog politicians.

Oh, by the way, I may support Obama but I'm still skeptical about any controversy either candidate has. I always want proof, not conjecture.

Could've fooled me with your eagerness to defend a man without seeming to investigate any of the controversy surrounding him. Your arguments are weak and give the impression that you support Obama regardless of what questionable acts may arise.

Blind faith in democratic leadership.

You can say you want proof, but fact is that it doesn't matter what argument or evidence that's brought to light.. you will run to defend Obama. You have done it in just about every thread that might have something negative to say about him.

I on the other hand have called McCain a bumbling fool on several occassions.

Contrary to what you may want to believe I am not really bias'd. My candidate didn't win the major Ticket. I'll be hoping he chooses to run in 2012.

I'll be looking forward to your next defense for Obama. They amuse me :hippy:


"NO YOU CAN'T SAY THAT ABOUT OBAMA!!!"

[TheMetal1]

99% of politicians are criminals.

Most of them just haven't been caught yet.........
This election is doomed
Invest in soup
This blunts 4 you :tin foil hat:

[JakeMartinez]

Well considering that none of my friends or people I know are WELL KNOWN terrorists.. No I don't. You're right, but again There's a difference between a self acknowledged terrorist and someone hiding in the shadows. I'm not sure how you were trying to argue your point with this statement.
I was trying to say that as far as terrorist connections go, this is one incident that, to me, looks like one of those random relationships that come and go through life. The ACORN group is corrupt, no doubt, but they're not terrorists (in the modern sense of the word).



Let's use people on cannabis.com in the legal forum as an example of poor judgement. "Should I drive with weed in my car?".... "Should I hire a lawyer?"... "Should I be driving while smoking at the same time.". Example of time after time of bad judgement. Sorry, but if you choose bad person after bad person to enter your life and then choose to leave them there then you are just asking for trouble. It doesn't mean that you yourself are a bad person, just pretty darn stupid for keeping them in your life.

Are you referring to the trifecta of Bill Ayers, Rev. Wright and ACORN? You're right, these are suspicious connections. Hell, maybe Obama is a bit naive about the people around him. He'd almost have to be if he's really as hopeful as he makes himself out to be. At least he seems whip smart on law and government.


And you're right, it doesn't mean anything just because he was let go. Maybe Obama should bring that up.

I don't think he will because while he's leading in the polls the way he is, he has no need to resort to such volatile tactics.


I get the sense that between this post and your post on the other thread that you are taking this personally. If you are and you continue you can't blame me if I decide to have a little fun with you. Keep it up ;)

I'm sorry. I sometimes get angry in debates. I can be really impatient sometimes, so I end up making a fool of myself. One thing McCain and I have in common lol Other than that, I just like a good argument, no matter what subject it is. It's a great opportunity to learn, and from arguing with you, I've learned a lot about this election.





Which brings to question.. Why is it a mystery. Why would something so seemingly innocent have to be kept under wraps.

And again, how can you be tough on terrorism and yet be friends with a terrorist.

Probably more bothersome to me is that you defending an unrepentant terrorist, but that is neither for this thread nor these forums probably. I just feels it reflects on you poorly. However you're not running for any office so I could care less ;)

You're right, I'd like to know the truth of these connections to Ayers as well. I don't think we ever will, though, because there's too much bias on both sides to decide what really happened. And, looking at the evidence you gave, it looks like Ayers is an unrepentant terrorist. Oh well.



Could've fooled me with your eagerness to defend a man without seeming to investigate any of the controversy surrounding him. Your arguments are weak and give the impression that you support Obama regardless of what questionable acts may arise.

Blind faith in democratic leadership.
I don't know what I'm going to do this election. The democratic process seems pretty fucked at this point. It's hard to get over the emotions Obama's speeches stirred up in me, though...


You can say you want proof, but fact is that it doesn't matter what argument or evidence that's brought to light.. you will run to defend Obama. You have done it in just about every thread that might have something negative to say about him.

I on the other hand have called McCain a bumbling fool on several occassions.

Contrary to what you may want to believe I am not really bias'd. My candidate didn't win the major Ticket. I'll be hoping he chooses to run in 2012.

I'll be looking forward to your next defense for Obama. They amuse me :hippy:

I'd defend McCain if I saw hot threads about controversies around him. I think he's safe for awhile, though.

And cool, life would be shit without a good laugh :D

By the way, look! I figured out the multi-quote! *gasp*

[daihashi]

By the way, look! I figured out the multi-quote! *gasp*

I love the multi quote. It makes addressing issues point by point so much easier and less chance of confusion between posts when discussing something with a person.

Make good use of it! I love it. :thumbsup:

[AspenGrow]

McCain at ACORN conference (http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/Acorn_pushes_back_hugs_McCain.html?showall)

But wait, did you know that even if the person that is collecting the voter registration REALIZES that it is a fraudulent voter registration application, he HAS to submit it anyways, because it is illegal for anyone but an appointed election supervisor to throw them out? But you guys wouldn't do any research that would make it seem like they were actually doing their jobs, would you? Nah, it's much easier to just put out a few press releases that make it seem like they're a bad organization and such. Did you know that in Nevada, ACORN actually went 1 step further in their efforts to combat bad registrations, that they attached a cover sheet to each registration that they thought was invalid, and the Nevada people that actually process the registrations into the systems (the people that ARE allowed to throw them out) just threw out the cover sheet? But wait.....that makes it seem like they were set up? What happens when you take a bad check to the bank? they tell you to cash it and find out, even if you asked them if it was bad, and even if they know it is a bad check, they can't tell. But when they find out it's a bad check, the bank doesn't get in trouble, the person who GAVE it to them does.

But really, McCain supports them just as much as Barack, which makes sense, since they would give them both access to droves of poor voters, which there are seemingly more and more of everyday in this bush economy.

[daihashi]

But wait, did you know that even if the person that is collecting the voter registration REALIZES that it is a fraudulent voter registration application, he HAS to submit it anyways, because it is illegal for anyone but an appointed election supervisor to throw them out?

Here where I live in my county, ACORN was found to have registered 4000 DEAD PEOPLE.

Their job is to take valid voters registrations.. not to make up fake voters, advocate underage people to register to vote or have an individual community organizer part of their organization register a person 126 times (yes, happened here in my city).

Perhaps you're the one that needs to take some time out to find out exactly what is going on.

Illegal to throw out voter registrations.. yes it is... illegal to refrain from participating in registering underage voters and the deceased.. no it's not. They are perfectly entitled to respect the law :thumbsup:

Now if the same guy got registered 3-4 times by 3 to 4 different people then I can understand how that might of happened.. but over 100 times by the the same person. Something is fishy there :wtf:

ask me for a link to source my claims and I'll provide one. My internet at home is poor and it takes a long time to load any pages at the moment; so I'm choosing to refrain from doing any unnecessary web searches.

[AspenGrow]

My point in the matter is this, daihashi:

If you're not ALLOWED to throw away bad voter registrations, how is it your fault that they get submitted?

I mean......if you're found to have violated the voter registration act, doesn't that carry some pretty salty penalties?

-edit-

Here's those penalties, as copied from the 1993 Voter Registration Act.

SEC. 12. CRIMINAL PENALTIES.
A person, including an election official, who in any election for Federal office--
(1) knowingly and willfully intimidates, threatens, or coerces, or attempts to
intimidate, threaten, or coerce, any person for--
(A) registering to vote, or voting, or attempting to register or vote;
(B) urging or aiding any person to register to vote, to vote, or to attempt to
register or vote; or
(C) exercising any right under this Act; o
(2) knowingly and willfully deprives, defrauds, or attempts to deprive or defraud
the residents of a State of a fair and impartially conducted election process, by--
(A) the procurement or submission of voter registration applications that are
known by the person to be materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent under the laws of the
State in which the election is held; or
(B) the procurement, casting, or tabulation of ballots that are known by the
person to be materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent under the laws of the State in which
the election is held, shall be fined in accordance with title 18, United States Code (which
fines shall be paid into the general fund of the Treasury, miscellaneous receipts (pursuant
to section 3302 of title 31, United States Code), notwithstanding any other law), or
imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.

Title 18 says:

I cannot find? I hope it's some exorbitant fine, though.

[justanotherbozo]

for those that object to 'guilt by association', if you think those associations
are no big deal, how come you're not offended by his lieing about those
associations? isn't that a big deal? doesn't it bother you that, if he were just
another guy applying for a government job, he wouldn't pass the security
clearance? shouldn't the man we elect to the most powerful job in the free
world have some integrity? or is being a pretty speaker enough?

Obama is a gifted speaker, a rousing orator promising to save you from the big
bad Bush! the problem is, it hasn't been Bush that's been the biggest problem
these last 8 years. and i'm not saying that in defense of Bush, i don't like him
either.

the fact is, it's the Democrats who are responsible for this financial crisis that
we're all living through right now, with Dodd and Frank leading the way.
and considering that, in just 3 years, Obama has taken more money from Fannie
and Freddie than every other politician except Dodd who's been taking money
from Fannie and Freddie for 20 years, and, considering that 2 of his top advisors
were top executives at Fannie and Freddie, well, i just wonder what we don't
know.

if Obama gets elected, we are in big trouble! he's proven himself to be a liar!

[AspenGrow]

I don't understand how 6 years of republican majority leading us into this crisis = democratic party fail. Please explain how the republicans tried to avoid this problem while they were in the majority, and then maybe I'll listen to the whole "BUT IT'S THOSE DAMN LIBERAL'S FAULT!!!"

[justanotherbozo]

I don't understand how 6 years of republican majority leading us into this crisis = democratic party fail. Please explain how the republicans tried to avoid this problem while they were in the majority, and then maybe I'll listen to the whole "BUT IT'S THOSE DAMN LIBERAL'S FAULT!!!"

it's a fact that in 2001 Bush tried to introduce legislation to impose stiffer
regulations on Fannie and Freddie. it's also a fact that it was the house
Democrats that killed that bill and several others put forth by republicans,
with John McCain among them.

haven't you seen any of the clips showing Barney Frank and several other
Democrats talking about how healthy Fannie and Freddie were?

the Democrats have spent the last 8 years dedicated to making Bush look
bad, even if it meant America would suffer. they were willing to do whatever
it took to regain power.

now it appears they're even willing to steal the election!

[daihashi]

My point in the matter is this, daihashi:

If you're not ALLOWED to throw away bad voter registrations, how is it your fault that they get submitted?

I mean......if you're found to have violated the voter registration act, doesn't that carry some pretty salty penalties?


You seem to have missed the point of my previous post. Yes if some guy got registered multiple times by multiple people.. unknowningly then yes; that's fine. No fault to those people or the organization.

But when individuals are being registered over 100 times.. when the deceased are being registered to vote, when the Dallas Cowboys are being registered to vote in Nevada for some really unknown even to the Dallas Cowboys.. then yes; there is a problem.

They cannot throw away voters registration; but they can avoid doing something illegal, immoral and wrong as described above. The above is what everyone is talking about.

Your point still doesn't prove the organizations innocence or even their naiveity. It seems they are going out of their way to register anyone who will even talk to them; and if that person will allow it.. register them well over 100 times.

[AspenGrow]

The more I hear and read about it though, they were actually giving out cigarettes or dollars (which is illegal in and of itself) to get people to register to vote. I heard on the radio this morning, one gentleman, from Nevada, who said he registered 73 times because each time, he got a dollar, and that he didn't think it was wrong, because he was getting paid. I still feel that there was no massive conspiracy to try and register all these people, just a bunch of idiots who were trying to make a quick buck (both on the registree and the registrant side) that got too greedy, and now it's where it is.

I still don't understand how even though the republicans had a majority it was the democrats fault?

[justanotherbozo]

The more I hear and read about it though, they were actually giving out cigarettes or dollars (which is illegal in and of itself) to get people to register to vote. I heard on the radio this morning, one gentleman, from Nevada, who said he registered 73 times because each time, he got a dollar, and that he didn't think it was wrong, because he was getting paid. I still feel that there was no massive conspiracy to try and register all these people, just a bunch of idiots who were trying to make a quick buck (both on the registree and the registrant side) that got too greedy, and now it's where it is.

I still don't understand how even though the republicans had a majority it was the democrats fault?


you ever heard the word 'Filibuster'?

[daihashi]

The more I hear and read about it though, they were actually giving out cigarettes or dollars (which is illegal in and of itself) to get people to register to vote. I heard on the radio this morning, one gentleman, from Nevada, who said he registered 73 times because each time, he got a dollar, and that he didn't think it was wrong, because he was getting paid. I still feel that there was no massive conspiracy to try and register all these people, just a bunch of idiots who were trying to make a quick buck (both on the registree and the registrant side) that got too greedy, and now it's where it is.


Earlier you posted the voters registration act.. it says that coercion is not allowed.

Giving someone money and cigarrettes is coercion. Granted I would not register if someone told me they would give me money; but that's me. At the same time I cannot say I fault the individual to the same degree that I fault Acorn. The organization should not be using these tactics in the first place.

When a cigarette vendor comes into a bar and says they'l give you free stuff for filling out a survey... I can't say that I blame them and it's human nature to see many people flock to these vendors. Free... cigarettes..

The organization ACORN are manipulating people by the very nature of humans themselves. This is not right and furthermore is illegal.

So now we've done a 180; before you were defending ACORN and now, at least to some degree, agree with the manipulative, corrupt and illegal methods they are using to register voters.

I'm glad that you were able to see the situation for what it is finally; if even on only a small level.

:hippy:

[DaBudhaStank]

for those that object to 'guilt by association', if you think those associations
are no big deal, how come you're not offended by his lieing about those
associations? isn't that a big deal? doesn't it bother you that, if he were just
another guy applying for a government job, he wouldn't pass the security
clearance? shouldn't the man we elect to the most powerful job in the free
world have some integrity? or is being a pretty speaker enough?

Obama is a gifted speaker, a rousing orator promising to save you from the big
bad Bush! the problem is, it hasn't been Bush that's been the biggest problem
these last 8 years. and i'm not saying that in defense of Bush, i don't like him
either.

the fact is, it's the Democrats who are responsible for this financial crisis that
we're all living through right now, with Dodd and Frank leading the way.
and considering that, in just 3 years, Obama has taken more money from Fannie
and Freddie than every other politician except Dodd who's been taking money
from Fannie and Freddie for 20 years, and, considering that 2 of his top advisors
were top executives at Fannie and Freddie, well, i just wonder what we don't
know.

if Obama gets elected, we are in big trouble! he's proven himself to be a liar!

Lies are a non issue. Neither side tells the whole truth, therefore this point is practically invalid. People never seemed to have the slightest problem with Bush's bold faced lies for both terms in office, so I don't see how it's a problem now. And yes, being a pretty speaker is much better than just having a pretty face (see Palin). Also, you say it hasn't been Bush that's put us in this spot over 8 years, you are correct. It's been Bush, the Republican Congress, and the Democratic congress. MY GOD! There's plenty of blame to go around! I'm astonished! If Obama gets elected, we have a chance to not SUCK to most of the world. If McCain get's elected, we just start sticking barrels down everyones throats, drilling for oil we that SHOULDNT EVEN STILL BE USING BY NOW. If anything, I think Obama lies less than most politicians. McCain probably even lies less than most, but I think it's just because he can't seem to get a strong, clear message through, let alone keep his campaign from being in total shambles lately.

[AspenGrow]

Earlier you posted the voters registration act.. it says that coercion is not allowed.

Giving someone money and cigarrettes is coercion. Granted I would not register if someone told me they would give me money; but that's me. At the same time I cannot say I fault the individual to the same degree that I fault Acorn. The organization should not be using these tactics in the first place.

When a cigarette vendor comes into a bar and says they'l give you free stuff for filling out a survey... I can't say that I blame them and it's human nature to see many people flock to these vendors. Free... cigarettes..

The organization ACORN are manipulating people by the very nature of humans themselves. This is not right and furthermore is illegal.

So now we've done a 180; before you were defending ACORN and now, at least to some degree, agree with the manipulative, corrupt and illegal methods they are using to register voters.

I'm glad that you were able to see the situation for what it is finally; if even on only a small level.

:hippy:

I'll give you that some people that are working for them are using corrupt methods to try and further themselves, as they get paid based on how many voters they register each day. But, to say that there is some vast consipiracy that ACORN itself has perpetrated, to register thousands upon thousands of people to vote that aren't even real people, just doesn't pass the litmus test for not being absolutely retarded.

[daihashi]

I'll give you that some people that are working for them are using corrupt methods to try and further themselves, as they get paid based on how many voters they register each day. But, to say that there is some vast consipiracy that ACORN itself has perpetrated, to register thousands upon thousands of people to vote that aren't even real people, just doesn't pass the litmus test for not being absolutely retarded.

It's the organizations job to maintain credibility; and part of that credibility is to ensure that all activities going on associated with it's name are legal.

When you go to the grocery store and an item is priced differently at check out you don't blame the individual who mispriced the item on the shelves. You typically blame the store or if you were to repeat the story to another person you wouldn't say "Michelle the cashier screwed me over". You would say "<insert local grocery store name here> screwed me over".

Ultimately ACORN is accountable for the actions of the individuals which it employs. This is obviously a wide spread problem yet we don't see ACORN taking any measures to stop it. Doesn't that seem fishy to you?

[maladroit]

"it's a fact that in 2001 Bush tried to introduce legislation to impose stiffer
regulations on Fannie and Freddie. "

- so we can add fannie and freddie to his list of failed objectives along with bin laden...it is a fact that george bush introduced legislation to make it easier for banks (including fannie and freddie) to issue mortgages to low income people with impaired credit...it is a fact that george bush pressured fannie and freddie to issue half a trillion dollars of mortgages to low income families...it is a fact that george bush pressured private banks to issue more mortgages to low income families...bush has personally pimped risky mortgage lending practices since his first state of the union speech right up until 2006 (at least)

george bush's role in the subprime crisis:
http://boards.cannabis.com/politics/163491-what-you-get-850-billion.html#post1923895



"the Democrats have spent the last 8 years dedicated to making Bush look
bad"

- i think george bush deserves most of the blame for his administration's record...the democrats didn't force bush to submit budgets with 50% more federal spending...the democrats didn't force george bush to double the national debt...the democrats didn't force george bush to invade iraq based on a pack of lies...george bush has led the country from one disaster to another, undermining national security and creating fiscal imbalances of mindboggling proportions...sadly, the democrats did more to enable bush than undermine him...they deserve blame for bush's failures too - they let america down

[daihashi]

"it's a fact that in 2001 Bush tried to introduce legislation to impose stiffer
regulations on Fannie and Freddie. "

- so we can add fannie and freddie to his list of failed objectives along with bin laden...it is a fact that george bush introduced legislation to make it easier for banks (including fannie and freddie) to issue mortgages to low income people with impaired credit...it is a fact that george bush pressured fannie and freddie to issue half a trillion dollars of mortgages to low income families...it is a fact that george bush pressured private banks to issue more mortgages to low income families...bush has personally pimped risky mortgage lending practices since his first state of the union speech right up until 2006 (at least)

Actually it was democrats that leveraged pressure against fannie and Freddie in the early 90's

You've been clinging to that statement about Bush in regards to the mortgage crisis for some time now and I've corrected you each time. The problem was not spurred by Bush nor did it start with him


Fannie Mae, the nation's biggest underwriter of home mortgages, has been under increasing pressure from the Clinton Administration to expand mortgage loans among low and moderate income people and felt pressure from stock holders to maintain its phenomenal growth in profits.

Fannie Mae Eases Credit To Aid Mortgage Lending - New York Times (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9c0de7db153ef933a0575ac0a96f9582 60&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=1)

In October 1992, a brief debate unfolded on the floor of the House of Representatives over a bill to create a new regulator for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. On one side stood Jim Leach, an Iowa Republican concerned that Congress was "hamstringing" this new regulator at the behest of the companies.

He warned that the two companies were changing "from being agencies of the public at large to money machines for the stockholding few."

On the other side stood Barney Frank, a Massachusetts Democrat who said the companies served a public purpose. They were in the business of lowering the price of mortgage loans.

Congress chose to create a weak regulator, the Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight. The agency was required to get its budget approved by Congress, while agencies that regulated banks set their own budgets. That gave congressional allies an easy way to exert pressure.


How Washington Failed to Rein In Fannie, Freddie (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/13/AR2008091302638_pf.html)

Here it is straight from Bill Clinton's mouth:

YouTube - Bill Clinton Agrees That Democrats Caused Financial Crisis (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsynspIqAoE)
[/QUOTE]

[justanotherbozo]

"it's a fact that in 2001 Bush tried to introduce legislation to impose stiffer
regulations on Fannie and Freddie. "

- so we can add fannie and freddie to his list of failed objectives along with bin laden...it is a fact that george bush introduced legislation to make it easier for banks (including fannie and freddie) to issue mortgages to low income people with impaired credit...it is a fact that george bush pressured fannie and freddie to issue half a trillion dollars of mortgages to low income families...it is a fact that george bush pressured private banks to issue more mortgages to low income families...bush has personally pimped risky mortgage lending practices since his first state of the union speech right up until 2006 (at least)

george bush's role in the subprime crisis:
http://boards.cannabis.com/politics/163491-what-you-get-850-billion.html#post1923895



"the Democrats have spent the last 8 years dedicated to making Bush look
bad"

- i think george bush deserves most of the blame for his administration's record...the democrats didn't force bush to submit budgets with 50% more federal spending...the democrats didn't force george bush to double the national debt...the democrats didn't force george bush to invade iraq based on a pack of lies...george bush has led the country from one disaster to another, undermining national security and creating fiscal imbalances of mindboggling proportions...sadly, the democrats did more to enable bush than undermine him...they deserve blame for bush's failures too - they let america down


you know, this stuff isn't even hard to find for those that want to know the
truth!



here's check this clip out YouTube - McCain's Early Recognition of Fannie/Freddie Crisis
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63siCHvuGFg)




The White House released this list of attempts by President Bush to reform Freddie Mae and Freddie Mac since he took office in 2001.
Unfortunately, Congress did not act on the president's warnings:


** 2001

April: The Administration's FY02 budget declares that the size of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac is "a potential problem," because "financial trouble of a large GSE could cause strong repercussions in financial markets, affecting Federally insured entities and economic activity."

** 2002

May: The President calls for the disclosure and corporate governance principles contained in his 10-point plan for corporate responsibility to apply to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. (OMB Prompt Letter to OFHEO, 5/29/02)

** 2003

January: Freddie Mac announces it has to restate financial results for the previous three years.

February: The Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight (OFHEO) releases a report explaining that "although investors perceive an implicit Federal guarantee of [GSE] obligations," "the government has provided no explicit legal backing for them." As a consequence, unexpected problems at a GSE could immediately spread into financial sectors beyond the housing market. ("Systemic Risk: Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and the Role of OFHEO," OFHEO Report, 2/4/03)

September: Fannie Mae discloses SEC investigation and acknowledges OFHEO's review found earnings manipulations.

September: Treasury Secretary John Snow testifies before the House Financial Services Committee to recommend that Congress enact "legislation to create a new Federal agency to regulate and supervise the financial activities of our housing-related government sponsored enterprises" and set prudent and appropriate minimum capital adequacy requirements.

October: Fannie Mae discloses $1.2 billion accounting error.

November: Council of the Economic Advisers (CEA) Chairman Greg Mankiw explains that any "legislation to reform GSE regulation should empower the new regulator with sufficient strength and credibility to reduce systemic risk." To reduce the potential for systemic instability, the regulator would have "broad authority to set both risk-based and minimum capital standards" and "receivership powers necessary to wind down the affairs of a troubled GSE." (N. Gregory Mankiw, Remarks At The Conference Of State Bank Supervisors State Banking Summit And Leadership, 11/6/03)

** 2004

February: The President's FY05 Budget again highlights the risk posed by the explosive growth of the GSEs and their low levels of required capital, and called for creation of a new, world-class regulator: "The Administration has determined that the safety and soundness regulators of the housing GSEs lack sufficient power and stature to meet their responsibilities, and thereforeâ?¦should be replaced with a new strengthened regulator." (2005 Budget Analytic Perspectives, pg. 83)

February: CEA Chairman Mankiw cautions Congress to "not take [the financial market's] strength for granted." Again, the call from the Administration was to reduce this risk by "ensuring that the housing GSEs are overseen by an effective regulator." (N. Gregory Mankiw, Op-Ed, "Keeping Fannie And Freddie's House In Order," Financial Times, 2/24/04)

June: Deputy Secretary of Treasury Samuel Bodman spotlights the risk posed by the GSEs and called for reform, saying "We do not have a world-class system of supervision of the housing government sponsored enterprises (GSEs), even though the importance of the housing financial system that the GSEs serve demands the best in supervision to ensure the long-term vitality of that system. Therefore, the Administration has called for a new, first class, regulatory supervisor for the three housing GSEs: Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and the Federal Home Loan Banking System." (Samuel Bodman, House Financial Services Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations Testimony, 6/16/04)

** 2005

April: Treasury Secretary John Snow repeats his call for GSE reform, saying "Events that have transpired since I testified before this Committee in 2003 reinforce concerns over the systemic risks posed by the GSEs and further highlight the need for real GSE reform to ensure that our housing finance system remains a strong and vibrant source of funding for expanding homeownership opportunities in Americaâ?¦ Half-measures will only exacerbate the risks to our financial system." (Secretary John W. Snow, "Testimony Before The U.S. House Financial Services Committee," 4/13/05)

** 2007

July: Two Bear Stearns hedge funds invested in mortgage securities collapse.

August: President Bush emphatically calls on Congress to pass a reform package for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, saying "first things first when it comes to those two institutions. Congress needs to get them reformed, get them streamlined, get them focused, and then I will consider other options." (President George W. Bush, Press Conference, The White House, 8/9/07)

September: RealtyTrac announces foreclosure filings up 243,000 in August â?? up 115 percent from the year before.

September: Single-family existing home sales decreases 7.5 percent from the previous month â?? the lowest level in nine years. Median sale price of existing homes fell six percent from the year before.

December: President Bush again warns Congress of the need to pass legislation reforming GSEs, saying "These institutions provide liquidity in the mortgage market that benefits millions of homeowners, and it is vital they operate safely and operate soundly. So I've called on Congress to pass legislation that strengthens independent regulation of the GSEs â?? and ensures they focus on their important housing mission. The GSE reform bill passed by the House earlier this year is a good start. But the Senate has not acted. And the United States Senate needs to pass this legislation soon." (President George W. Bush, Discusses Housing, The White House, 12/6/07)

** 2008

January: Bank of America announces it will buy Countrywide.

January: Citigroup announces mortgage portfolio lost $18.1 billion in value.

February: Assistant Secretary David Nason reiterates the urgency of reforms, says "A new regulatory structure for the housing GSEs is essential if these entities are to continue to perform their public mission successfully." (David Nason, Testimony On Reforming GSE Regulation, Senate Committee On Banking, Housing And Urban Affairs, 2/7/08)

March: Bear Stearns announces it will sell itself to JPMorgan Chase.

March: President Bush calls on Congress to take action and "move forward with reforms on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. They need to continue to modernize the FHA, as well as allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to homeowners to refinance their mortgages." (President George W. Bush, Remarks To The Economic Club Of New York, New York, NY, 3/14/08)

April: President Bush urges Congress to pass the much needed legislation and "modernize Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. [There are] constructive things Congress can do that will encourage the housing market to correct quickly by â?¦ helping people stay in their homes." (President George W. Bush, Meeting With Cabinet, the White House, 4/14/08)

May: President Bush issues several pleas to Congress to pass legislation reforming Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac before the situation deteriorates further.

"Americans are concerned about making their mortgage payments and keeping their homes. Yet Congress has failed to pass legislation I have repeatedly requested to modernize the Federal Housing Administration that will help more families stay in their homes, reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to ensure they focus on their housing mission, and allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to refinance sub-prime loans." (President George W. Bush, Radio Address, 5/3/08)

"[T]he government ought to be helping creditworthy people stay in their homes. And one way we can do that â?? and Congress is making progress on this â?? is the reform of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. That reform will come with a strong, independent regulator." (President George W. Bush, Meeting With The Secretary Of The Treasury, the White House, 5/19/08)

"Congress needs to pass legislation to modernize the Federal Housing Administration, reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to ensure they focus on their housing mission, and allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to refinance subprime loans." (President George W. Bush, Radio Address, 5/31/08)

June: As foreclosure rates continued to rise in the first quarter, the President once again asks Congress to take the necessary measures to address this challenge, saying "we need to pass legislation to reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac." (President George W. Bush, Remarks At Swearing In Ceremony For Secretary Of Housing And Urban Development, Washington, D.C., 6/6/08)

July: Congress heeds the President's call for action and passes reform of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as it becomes clear that the institutions are failing.
In 2005-- Senator John McCain partnered with three other Senate Republicans to reform the governmentâ??s involvement in lending.
Democrats blocked this reform, too.

More... Not only did democrats not act on these warnings but Barack Obama put one of the major Sub-Prime Slime players on his campaign as finance chairperson.

UPDATE: The media is not reporting that the failed financial institutions are big Obama donors.

[maladroit]

if george bush and tony snow were trying to reform fannie and freddie, why did they pressure them to take on more risky mortgages to low income families for over five years? if they knew fannie and freddie were at risk from their ballooning portfolios, why did george bush call upon fannie and freddie to issue half a trillion dollars of mortgages to low income homebuyers?

i took a look at that list and noticed that it had very little to do with the subprime crisis which would have occurred anyway even if bush had achieved 100% of his objectives on that list...when fannie and freddie broke down, they were responsible for issuing less than 20% of the risky mortgages behind the crisis, and that was after years of george bush bullying them to catch up to the private sector in issuing risky mortgages...here is the real record of bush and his administration leading up to the subprime crisis:


january 2002: state of the union speech, george bush promises "broader home ownership, especially among minorities"
President Delivers State of the Union Address


june 2002: george bush announces plans to expand home ownership among low income families by 5.5 million, and "increase by at least $440 billion, the financial commitment made by the government sponsored enterprises involved in the secondary mortgage market, specifically targeted toward the minority market" DESPITE the fact that "overall homeownership rate has reached an all time high of nearly 68 percent"
Fact Sheet: President Bush Calls for Expanding Opportunities to Homeownership


june 2002: credit unions respond positively to george bush's "America's Homeownership Challenge" to issue more mortgages to low income buyers
Dollar urges CUs to play a prominent role in Bush's "America's Homeownership Challenge" - Credit Union Times


october 2002; george bush hosts conference on minority home ownership with top financial institutions:
President Hosts Conference on Minority Homeownership
YouTube - economic crisis president bush mortgage speech


in 2004, george bush seeks to increase home ownership rates by eliminating downpayment requirements for mortgages, targetting "first-time buyers with somewhat impaired credit":
USATODAY.com - Bush seeks to increase minority homeownership


september 2004: george bush announces plans to expand 'affordable' home ownership by 7 million with a series of policies targetting towards low income buyers:
Increasing Affordable Housing and Expanding Homeownership


april 2005, george bush's former neighbour and personal friend, HUD secretary alphonzo jackson, partners up with bush's treasury secretary to announce the bush administration's position that freddie and fannie need to catch up to the private sector in issuing mortgages to low income and minority customers:
HUD Testimony - Statement of HUD Secretary Alphonso Jackson, before the U.S. House Committee on Financial Services, 4/13/05


february 2006: bush administration 2007 budget reforms FHA to support low income home buyers "The President's proposed budget is a real investment in building a society based on ownership"
HUD News Release 06-013

[Psycho4Bud]

I'll give you that some people that are working for them are using corrupt methods to try and further themselves, as they get paid based on how many voters they register each day. But, to say that there is some vast consipiracy that ACORN itself has perpetrated, to register thousands upon thousands of people to vote that aren't even real people, just doesn't pass the litmus test for not being absolutely retarded.

Sorry Mickey -- You Can&#39; t Vote - Central Florida News 13 (http://www.cfnews13.com/Politics/FloridaDecides/2008/10/14/sorry_mickey__you_can39t_vote.html)
The Associated Press: ACORN office in Vegas raided in voter-fraud probe (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hvb0LfZQ5mY-X8PYSvYxTe3QGgdgD93LVDS80)
The Maneater - County reports record number of new voters (http://www.themaneater.com/stories/2008/10/14/county-reports-record-number-new-voters/)
States probe possible voter registration fraud -- chicagotribune.com (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-vote-fraud_frioct10,0,2159694.story)

And Obama's "response" to the problem of voter fraud:
Political Punch (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/10/obama-on-acorn.html)

Now if this crap was happening with a pro-McCain group I'm SURE there would be a completely different type of post coming from alot of ya.

Have a good one!:s4:

[justanotherbozo]

Sorry Mickey -- You Can' t Vote - Central Florida News 13 (http://www.cfnews13.com/Politics/FloridaDecides/2008/10/14/sorry_mickey__you_can39t_vote.html)
The Associated Press: ACORN office in Vegas raided in voter-fraud probe (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hvb0LfZQ5mY-X8PYSvYxTe3QGgdgD93LVDS80)
The Maneater - County reports record number of new voters (http://www.themaneater.com/stories/2008/10/14/county-reports-record-number-new-voters/)
States probe possible voter registration fraud -- chicagotribune.com (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-vote-fraud_frioct10,0,2159694.story)

And Obama's "response" to the problem of voter fraud:
Political Punch (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/10/obama-on-acorn.html)

Now if this crap was happening with a pro-McCain group I'm SURE there would be a completely different type of post coming from alot of ya.

Have a good one!:s4:


lol, what he said!

[daihashi]

if george bush and tony snow were trying to reform fannie and freddie, why did they pressure them to take on more risky mortgages to low income families for over five years? if they knew fannie and freddie were at risk from their ballooning portfolios, why did george bush call upon fannie and freddie to issue half a trillion dollars of mortgages to low income homebuyers?

i took a look at that list and noticed that it had very little to do with the subprime crisis which would have occurred anyway even if bush had achieved 100% of his objectives on that list...when fannie and freddie broke down, they were responsible for issuing less than 20% of the risky mortgages behind the crisis, and that was after years of george bush bullying them to catch up to the private sector in issuing risky mortgages...here is the real record of bush and his administration leading up to the subprime crisis:


january 2002: state of the union speech, george bush promises "broader home ownership, especially among minorities"
President Delivers State of the Union Address


june 2002: george bush announces plans to expand home ownership among low income families by 5.5 million, and "increase by at least $440 billion, the financial commitment made by the government sponsored enterprises involved in the secondary mortgage market, specifically targeted toward the minority market" DESPITE the fact that "overall homeownership rate has reached an all time high of nearly 68 percent"
Fact Sheet: President Bush Calls for Expanding Opportunities to Homeownership


june 2002: credit unions respond positively to george bush's "America's Homeownership Challenge" to issue more mortgages to low income buyers
Dollar urges CUs to play a prominent role in Bush's "America's Homeownership Challenge" - Credit Union Times


october 2002; george bush hosts conference on minority home ownership with top financial institutions:
President Hosts Conference on Minority Homeownership
YouTube - economic crisis president bush mortgage speech


in 2004, george bush seeks to increase home ownership rates by eliminating downpayment requirements for mortgages, targetting "first-time buyers with somewhat impaired credit":
USATODAY.com - Bush seeks to increase minority homeownership


september 2004: george bush announces plans to expand 'affordable' home ownership by 7 million with a series of policies targetting towards low income buyers:
Increasing Affordable Housing and Expanding Homeownership


april 2005, george bush's former neighbour and personal friend, HUD secretary alphonzo jackson, partners up with bush's treasury secretary to announce the bush administration's position that freddie and fannie need to catch up to the private sector in issuing mortgages to low income and minority customers:
HUD Testimony - Statement of HUD Secretary Alphonso Jackson, before the U.S. House Committee on Financial Services, 4/13/05


february 2006: bush administration 2007 budget reforms FHA to support low income home buyers "The President's proposed budget is a real investment in building a society based on ownership"
HUD News Release 06-013

Question for you.. why is it when you point the finger at Bush for the mortgage crisis and then I kindly point out that the problem was created and stems back from a democratic administration you completely ignore it as if I never said anything.

It's easy to avoid the source of the problem and place blame somewhere it doesn't belong.

Keep on pointing your Bush finger; you really look silly seeing as how not everything is Bush fault and I've been critical of president Bush over the years and I say this.

[justanotherbozo]

none are so blind as them that will not see.

daihashi is right, and he has been critical of Bush, very critical.

but he is at least trying to be fair, he is looking for the truth, unlike you,
maladroit.


here's the link again, go take a look for yourself, don't just fall for the
Democratic party line

YouTube - McCain's Early Recognition of Fannie/Freddie Crisis (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63siCHvuGFg)

if you can watch this and not see the hands of the Democrat's then it's
true, your mind is made up so don't confuse you with the facts