Sad plants need some cheering up

[ozzyleven]

I was wondering if anyone could help me out. First time growing in soil. I am using FF Sea forest blend and the seedlings are currently in 4â?� peat pots. The oldest ones are about 21 days, the youngest 14 or so. pH is about 6.8 for both soil and my tap water. I water sparingly once a day, when top inch goes totally dry. Once, I used about half the recommended dose of Neptuneâ??s harvest for seedlings, but have since stopped after some forum reading. The plants are under a 600w HPS approx. 30 inch away, doing 18/6 and are well-ventilated, with a fan blowing on low at all times. Temp seems to be about normal, somewhere in between 70-75 degrees, and dark period happens during the day when temps are similar, but I was baffled to find three of them dried to death this morning. Must have happened when I was sleeping, others are drooping slightly and showing a slight yellow coloration, and one looks challenged (leaves corkscrewing in strange ways?) Did the three just not get enough water? Or too much? I tried to revive them today, but only one has responded to more water. I would like to prevent anymore murdering of my babies. Any help would be appreciated, thanks in advance.
The first two pics are the ones that look healthy other than a little droopiness and yellowing (very slight), the third one is the "challenged" plant, and the last one is one of the ones I obviously killed.

http://i38.tinypic.com/2utrkly.jpg
http://i35.tinypic.com/2gx4lrb.jpg
http://i35.tinypic.com/2mmu8hy.jpg
http://i35.tinypic.com/29zeuiu.jpg

[ozzyleven]

Sorry, about the blurry photos. I am hoping my explanation helps to clear things up.

[LifeSaver23]

same shit happened to me like 2 days ago only they didnt dry out..just hella drooped. i was doin the same as u.. every day sparingly .. when the top of the soil dried.
check ur shit out with a fork, poke around... dig underneath. i bet its dry as fuck, mine was. i sat there and mixed around some water... but u gotta make sure theres no dry pockets... get all of the soil damp or wet w/e.... ur plants might spring up immediately. mine did...after that just give the top a light spray and mist the leaves for the next day or so... then give them a full watering again and so on

[ozzyleven]

My plants leaves are starting to curl under and/or are drooping. Not sure what is wrong with them hoping someone can give some advice. The info below should tell you pretty much everything, let me know if there are any questions. Thanks!

E-indoor grow
E-soil
E-soil in 5 gal. pots
CSL-Fox Farms Sea Forest Blend
SCL-Down to Earth Biolive and Azomite
SCLR-6.0 ish
E-tap water that sits for a day
E-not sure yet
E- 6 weeks
E-Floranova Grow, Floralicious Grow, and Diamond Nectar
E-used in combination, tsp a gallon, applied once a week
E- 2 600w HPS, 2 ½ ft away
E- mid 70s to 80 during day, 60 to 65 during night
E- not totally sure, but thinking about 30 â?? 40 % never gets too moist
E-18/6 veg
E â?? a couple fans open airflow most of light period

[ozzyleven]

Any input? Doesn't seem like anyone wants to give their 2 cents...

[Dutch Pimp]

Any input? Doesn't seem like anyone wants to give their 2 cents...

well...it could be lots of things...:twocents:

1. 6.0 sounds ...low
2. 5 gallon pot for veg sounds ...BIG.
3. Earth Biolive sounds ...strange?

you'll have to wait until the Doctor arrives...to know more...:stoned:

[TheXFactor]

ur roots arent getting enough oxygen. try drilling some 1/8 inch holes all around the bottom half of the containers.

[Weedhound]

They look overnuted to me. ph at 6.0 IS low.......and I'm assuming that's from the runoff but it's still too low even going INto the pot.....ph of both should between 6.2-6.8.

Not sure I agree that drilling holes in your pots is going to affect your issue. I'd DEFINITELY stop fertilizing it at all and consider a transplant into some new, ph buffered and correct quality soil. Then check the ph going both in and out until you are sure they are both within the correct range. I love Fox Farms and use it as well but prefer the oceans forest potting soil. Have never tried your type. Just a transplant into good soil can solve a lot of issues. ;)

Good luck.

edit: Check out Stinky's sticky on soil ph, and the hows and whys of flushing your soil.

[ozzyleven]

sorry didnt have the bag in front of me...Iam useing FF oceans forest potting soil

[Weedhound]

Then I would take that lovely potting soil and transplant your kids into larger pots with that and NOTHING BUT THAT. Water with regular tap water that you KNOW is between 6.2-6.8 and I'd be willing to bet your problems will go away.

Stop pouring so many nutes into your pots as well.....I'm quite sure that's where your entire issue started.

Good luck.

[ozzyleven]

I thought It was a nute problem but my mind is shying away from that because I have not feed those 2 plant within a week ( I have six, the rest are fine) I only feed every week or two since the soil is so rich, I use the 1tsp per gallon which is the "most plants during early growth-600ppm/es1.3 dosage, which I think is low since it is in latter growth, I could be wrong. I am going to get a more accurate reading for the soil and the water PH up today. Thank you

[ozzyleven]

what size pot do you suggest? they are in 5gal.

[ozzyleven]

oh ya bio live was in question, It sounded like good stuff, thoughts?

Contains fish bone meal, fish meal, k-mag, kelp meal, root zone, endo-ectomycorrihizae, humic acid, and alfalfa meal

application-1tbs per gallon of soil -I have 2tbs to 5 gal since they are not heavy feeders

[Weedhound]

If you can't move to bigger pots you'll need to flush your plants to restore proper ph. Again......Stinky's thread is about flushing your soil is what you need. I don't care HOW MANY ferts, boosts, etc etc etc you pour into your pots....if your ph is off your plants will either starve or burn.

[ozzyleven]

OK...Iam suprised nothing is occuring to the fan leaves only the branch leaves(normal??)I have one of the cheap metal pobe ones- just purchased the paper test strips (pHydrion). Sorry about talkin about nutes, just was trying to say I wasnt adding alot. But I was curious how to flush, I read stinkys post and didnt see. I do have a bottle of clearex, should I run a bunch of water through or use water and clearex, please enlighten me! Iam also worried that the Fox Farms soil is so heavy It will trap alot of water and maybe produce root rot or drown the roots (maybe Iam over thinking) that worrys me about the run off Ph test and flushing.
Sorry to ask so much just want to do everything to the best It could be. Thank you!

[Weedhound]

Hmmm.........you need to flush....no doubt about it imo. You can use regular tap water and if you are trying to RAISE ph then ph your tap water to 6.2. If you are trying to LOWER ph then make your tap water to 6.8.

My personal feeling is that they are burned from overnute and that's what has thrown off your ph. Generally you will need 3-5 x the amount of your pot of water to flush with. I do my soil plants in the bathtub if I have to flush them. If you have them in 1 gallon pots you will probably need to flush with 3 gallons of ph correct water before you have gotten rid of the crud inside.

Once the water coming out the bottom is in normal range; water with 1/4 strength nutes at the correct ph and let the plant dry out. Overwatering your plant ONCE (as in flushing) won't kill your plant with root rot etc. HOWEVER.....you might want to consider getting a good product like Cannazym which helps prevent root rot. As you are discovering.....if the roots aren't happy....your plant won't be either and it's really that simple. You also must make sure that you have adequate drainage in your pots so that drowning/suffocating the roots will not occur.

Take care of your roots!!

[Weedhound]

Two thoughts......its occurring in the higher leaves because they are where the plant is sending whatever it is fed. It's not trying to grow fan leaves at this point......it's trying to grew NEW leaves and that new, sensitive growth is what will be affected first; good or bad.

Second thought.....strictly my personal thought/opinion. Thank god your ph IS off....or you'd have burned them to death with overnute already. The ph locking out some of your nutes is most likely what has kept them from frying too much already..

Fix both.....ph AND overnute.

Good luck.

http://boards.cannabis.com/plant-problems/153522-soil-runoff-ph-flushing-correct-lockouts-why-how-do.html

[ozzyleven]

I checked my tap water with the ph strip it reads 7 if not a little over, can I check the soils Ph with out checking the run off- still not sure if I will kill the plants with too much water since they are in heavy soil. I thought it could be over nute also at first, but the plant is still pushing out fan leaves at top, they look fine and alot of the branch leaves do too, its just on about 6 of them. wouldnt the fan leaves that are being produced show burn? not trying to argue anything just curious. didnt see how to flush properly in that post,guessing run alot of water through and not use any of my clearex I have read it earlier it is informative. first indoor soil so it worrys me. Thank you!

Things that I would like to know
-can I add enough water for checking runoff without harming plant in heavy soil
- can I check Ph of soil with strips without run off-how?
-newer growth isnt affected, nor is alot of growth
-Am I over analyeing things

[ozzyleven]

Im bad didnt see the post about flushing thank you! Thats kinda what I thought just wanted to make sure

[Weedhound]

If you were a hydro grower I would tell you to lower your total nutrient solution and that would solve your problem easily. Soil is harder in that respect.....once it's IN there, then it STAYS there and creates problems until you fix it.

[ozzyleven]

so I should flush soil every once in awhile so old nutes dont build up and cause a lockup situation. Or am I confused? should I flush all plants? Can I sink pure water in for the next week or so in hopes of washing that stuff out... I dont want to kill them with too much water (I think that will Happen)

[ozzyleven]

If new growth doesnt show signs of that wilt should I let it be? guessng just flush and stop asking questions:)

[Weedhound]

No they can't "sit"' in water.....your roots will need oxygen and pure water will suffocate them.

Flushing should be a one time thing that you do when your soil chemistry goes out of control so you should water her with several gallons but make sure she has adequate drainage. Iff you need to drill more holes in the bottom of your pot to make sure the water drains out well. No "sitting" in water for any length of time

edit: so perhaps X Factor gave you good advice in the first place....even if for different reasons. Just make sure you have adequate drainage.

Good luck.

[ozzyleven]

Hey thank you. Besides that everything else look good? heres some picshttp://boards.cannabis.com/plant-problems/164970-should-i-flower-these.html

[Weedhound]

hope that works for you

your link is a bit off track.....:D

[ozzyleven]

I ran afew gallons of water through and checked the rn off Ph with those strips, it said about 6, I wish I had a better Ph reader but lack the funds at this point in time. is that ok or what should be done?

[Weedhound]

Water her with QUARTER STRENGTH nutes at ph 6.5 or the absolute closest you can get to it.....your ph is important so consider a good tester sometime down the road. Right tool for the right job as my old man always used to say LOL! Then leave her to dry out.

Seriously very light nute amount ph'd right exactly in the middle. An actual six is too low but without PRESCISE INSTRUMENTATION you can only do the best you can. :D

[ozzyleven]

water was running clear from start to finish, if that matters?

[ozzyleven]

all of the fan leaves are mad droopy, how long does that usually last for should I be worried at a certain point? I drilled a bunch of holes and in the process cracked the bottom, so Iam guessing there is enough drainage. Was the soil chemistry out of control since the runoff ph was 6? Thanks for all of your help...almost done

[Weedhound]

don't have a ppm or ec tester do you? Love to know.....but more out of curiosity.

Some of the leaves will rebound and some won't and will stay a bit tweaked looking but new growth should be improved. Since you just flushed you've removed all the nutes from the soil.....that's why we're putting some back in before we leave her to dry. Then pick out a different feeding plan (a little less of things I would say) and chug on.

Good luck.

When ph rises I wonder about nuteburn but when roots die off they acidify things.......so basically yes your soil chemistry was out of balance.

[ozzyleven]

ok, so I should feed less than once every two weeks (other of the same strain is still fine). and also I have a rooting product that says it can be used drng the course of the plants life, should I add a bit or not?

[ozzyleven]

So this is partially related to a previous thread, so anyways I flushed one of my plants and it is starting to look a little better, but new growth is still curling under. Now, my other plants are starting to look bad. Do you think I need to flush all the plants as a precautionary measure or will they be okay? One in particular has crunchy dried up leaves on the low growth, pretty sure it was over nute. Been thinking it might need to be flushed if that is the problem. Thanks!

[ozzyleven]

Now I am thinking it could have been a hot spot, since only three leaves are being affected, and if it was overnute wouldn't the new growth feel it first? But I opened up the Adjustawing a couple notches and moved the plant, hoping it will be okay. On another note, I have these light spreaders on my bulbs from Adjustawing, anyone ever use these? Do they actually work? They are suposed to eliminate hot spots, but maybe they are just crap.

[stinkyattic]

Light diffusers work great.
Looks like you need a bigger pot and have other issues.
Please fill out the troubkleshooting form, especially the parts about feed and water chemistry.

[ozzyleven]

E-indoor grow
E-soil
E-soil in 5 gal. pots
CSL-Fox Farms Sea Forest Blend
SCL-Down to Earth Biolive and Azomite
SCLR-6.0 ish
E-tap water that sits for a day. Ph at 7
E-not sure yet
E- 6 weeks
E-Floranova Grow, Floralicious Grow, and Diamond Nectar
E-used in combination, tsp a gallon, applied once a week. Havent been feed for two eeks
E- 2 600w HPS, 2 ½ ft away
E- mid 70s to 80 during day, 60 to 65 during night
E- not totally sure, but thinking about 30 â?? 40 % never gets too moist
E- 12/12 flowering-3 days in
E â?? a couple fans open airflow most of light period

[stinkyattic]

Try to get your exhaust set up for more air flow. Fans/blowers that PULL air out of the room are most effective.
I don't know those soil amendments. But adding amendments to FFOF DOES make for a very hot blend!
If your plants are over 3 feet tall and bushy, re-pot into larger pots, like feed tubs, with BIG drain holes and jsut use plain potting soil of your choice, FFOF is fine, without any amendment but perlite if you want to make it fluffier.
Get your night temp minimum up to 65-68.

[ozzyleven]

I will replant them into something bigger.
We do have a large exhaust fan for them and a few fans inside to aid airflow.
Could this and the other problem be related (previous post)? Thank you

[ozzyleven]

night temp is up also It is usually high 60s recently in the last week

[stinkyattic]

Man, I gotta go look for that. If they appear to be related, I'm going to go ahead and merge them so anyone replying will have ALL the info in one place.

[stinkyattic]

Weedhound gave you the good advice in your last thread to transplant to a slightly larger pot with no added nutes in the soil. I concur.

[ozzyleven]

Going to go get bigger pots now. No nutes such as soil amendments or as the flora nova every few weeks. guessing the soil amendments

These are the links to the amendments, please tell me what you think

Down to Earth Bio-Live (5-4-2) (http://www.gchydro.com/detail.asp?product_id=dte_biolive)

Down to Earth Granular AZOMITE - 6 lb. Box (http://www.gchydro.com/detail.asp?product_id=DTE_AZOMITE)

Thank you!

[ozzyleven]

I transplanted yesterday, the pots are 3 inches wider and alittle deeper. they did look a little root bound. Today I woke up and they are looking worse, should I expect a decline in there health for a bit or is something else wrong? Is the new pots big enough? Iam suprised to use bigger pots because I grew monster plants outdoors in that size containers and never ha this issue.
Thank you

[ozzyleven]

one more of our plants had the curling thing not the burn, I transplanted it but it deffinetly asnt root bound, barley had enough roots to fill half of the container, transplanted to a bigger one anyway- is that the correct thing to do or should I flush that one? Iam guessing its the right thing since the last flush on the other plant didnt do nothing. Thank you! sorry to take up your time

[ozzyleven]

So all six have been transplanting and are definately showing their hairs! They look great from the top, but still look shitty on the bottom? Possible lack of light or will the damaged parts never recover? I know there might be a little recover time because of the transplants. Also, snapped a few branches while switching them over, I propped them up, I am just curious as to whether they we heal up and how long it will take. Sorry for the curiousity. Thanks for all the help again, I think it's all on the upswing!

[stinkyattic]

Damaged parts won't recover. Look at new growth. Also don't overwater- let the soil get pretty dry between waterings, almost but not quite to the point of wilt.

[ozzyleven]

Iam seeing some of the other leafs that werent damaged starting to show that burn and curling, is that normal since we transplanted them? is there someething more we should do?

[Weedhound]

Thank god Stinky's back!! Don't stay away so long in the future Stinkster. I, for one, can't live without you. :)

[ozzyleven]

So a few of the mid leafs are starting to burn from the tips and get dark spots almost black----> does this mean to flush, already transplanted a few days ago. Also some bottom leaves that werent damaged before are getting spots on them and edges kind of starting to look like the picture above, were goin to loose those leafs too------>remedy ideas, wtf is wrong? any ideas. I know both of you said to get to a larger pot and cut back on nutes.I think maybe humidity spikes at night may caus it? Since these are starting on there 2nd week of flowering this sunday do you think I should ad flowering nute?(doubt it just want to make sure) I really cant loose the crop 1st medical patient grow cant afford to. Thank you sorry that you all need to spend time on these questions. greatly appreciated. oh ya will post pictures later

[ozzyleven]

Its weird because I flushed that plant before I transplanted now the new growth curl seems to be more minimal then it was before but it is showing that burn(along with other plants) and I didnt fertilize any of them so Iam kind of confused. Thanks for all the help so far

[ozzyleven]

Plant that had no problems before(has been transplanted) showing the curling under. and another plant that didnt have problems and transplanted is yellowing/burning bottom leaves too. any input appreciated the only bad input seems to be no input

[TheMartian]

Hiya All.
Don't worry about asking questions M8, thats what these forums are for.
More piccies would help though, (piccy worth a thousand words, n all that old cack).
I've never done soil myself, I'm hydro ALL THE WAY BABY!!!!!
BUT it seems to me, you've made an already warm/hot dirt too hot, and now your having problems with overfeeding, which won't be doing the roots any good either, plus the having to overwater when flushing, its all stress.
Flushing will only get some of the nutes out, but it really is all you can do now, and you should definately listened to stinky, get that fuckin perlite in there, it will help to make the mix lighter drain better, oxy the roots better, let go of any nutes better.
I use perlite myself (just bout the soil).
If you do repot again, try to open out the roots slightly and get rid of as much soil as you can, and repot em into an unhotted up pot of the soil, and I'd cut it with a third perlite. Forget vermiculite for your purposes, it will compact down and its cation exchange is low, (it will hold onto nutes), the opposite of perlite BTW.
When its in the soil, its in, if you run with a weak mix you can always feed more if needed. Personally I wouldn't run in anything but inert media, or no media at all, that way YOU have FULL control.
Don't forget, lots of piccs, full plant, full leaf, full branch. you get the Idea ;-)
Another Idea is to try to take pics from a standard ange and position, think about the picture, that way its easier to see the difference over the days weeks, deterioration or recovery, or fuckin standstill.
And take lots and chose the best ones.
Fuck me I've wankers cramp, fuckin small laptop keyboards indeed.
Toodle Ooo
Martian

[TheMartian]

Hi Again Folks.
Sorry I forgot, don't repot em again yet, too much stress.
And you could get some hydrogen peroxide, that will help keep the roots oxygenated while flushing, flush em as normal, then shake the pots up and down to get rid of as much as pos, then water with hydrogen peroxide solution last, or you'll just be flushing it out and wasting it.
Fuckin yed like sieve, I 've probs forgot summat else too, DUUHHHH.
Tatty Bye.
Martian