Loving God = Stockholm Syndrome.

[Weedhound]

I'm starting to feel a real lean this way and would love to read other peoples' thoughts on this statement.

Thanks.

[daihashi]

I'm starting to feel a real lean this way and would love to read other peoples' thoughts on this statement.

Thanks.

I don't necessarily believe that but I totally understand how you can see it that way. I am not religious at all, as a matter of fact I'm agnostic. I'm just too damn logical and can't look beyond the obvious facts we have in front of us.

Some people worship to give them direction in life, to make them a better person.... most worship; i feel, because they've been brainwashed since they were children by their parents. How would people feel about God today if their parents didn't make them go to church, didn't preach the bible to them, didn't try to instill fear into them.

Many things in the bible don't make sense. The old testament tries to get people to conform to good moral standards through fear tactics. The new testament tries to get peope to conform to good moral standards through example and compassion. Jesus died for our sins and now all is forgiven?

REALLY?! I thought we were all his children; why did he have to come to earth and die for our sins to be forgiven. It makes no sense in my opinion.

There's no doubt in my mind that there are some real historical figures in the Bible as these same figures are found in the Hebrew testament, the Koran and other books; however do I see this as Gods words? Not at all.

God to me is something invented by man to find solace in death and to try to put some Order on earth during an unlawful era.

I don't need the bible to be a good person; honestly I feel I'm better than many religious people. I don't cast judgments on people, they often do because of the values that were instilled into them from the bible; even though it says that no one can judge but the Lord/God.

I think religion has it's place; it simply depends on what kind of person you are. I am happy with myself, I am a good person, I help others and I try my damndest to not judge others and TYPICALLY do a very good job. I have a stronger set of morals than most religious people and I'm always looking to help others without any other intention except to try to help in anyway I can.

While some religious people do the same, I have to say that most do not unless you are part of the same organization. What is the point in reading and worshipping if you do not apply what you've been taught to the world and not try to force your beliefs on others.

I'm ranting now..

Point being; I totally see it the way you do. However I am agnostic and don't deny the possibility of a God, but unless I see proof otherwise I'll continue to believe that he does not exist.

I don't need god to get me through hard times. I have faith in myself... I don't need god to love me.. I love myself. If we were all created in his image than the way I see it I'm his equal (assuming he's real) and he's kind of a jackass for trying to tell me what to do with my life.

I'm sure the flames will come; religion is a touchy subject. Just please everyone realize I meant no disrespect to your god. None at all and believe it or not I do admire some who are able to find faith in something that cannot be proved. That is an ability I will never have.

:hippy:

[daihashi]

So you think that people who love God are hostages and have become sympathetic with God's cause?

Well religion pretty much tells you that you have to love god, or you're a heathen. In that regards you're a hostage.. eventually you do become sympathetic to the religion and the love of God even if it may not make sense. In the end you're preaching the exact same thing you may have been questioning before.

In that sense I believe yes.. Loving God can be similar to Stockholme Syndrome.

[Weedhound]

Billion.......yes....I feel it's a lesser of two evils. There are so many things that just say black is white and vice versa. I feel sometimes like a battered wife to put it in another way........"yes I love you God, please don't hurt me any more. "

Does that make more sense or less?

Dai.....keep talking. I love the way you think.

[Weedhound]

If you guys are agnostic......what is hope to you? More work on your part? Luck? Some of both?

[daihashi]

If you guys are agnostic......what is hope to you? More work on your part? Luck? Some of both?

Well hope is really just wishing for the best outcome of a situation. So I'm not sure I really understand the question.

I don't turn to god for hope. I believe in myself enough to where I can overcome any obstacle no matter how dire it may seem. I love myself, I have faith in myself.

If you mean existence then I guess my answer is similar to Billionfolds.

[Weedhound]

But you must have reasons to keep going. "I exist" doesn't cover all the work and energy you put into things does it?

[daihashi]

Some people genuinely believe in and love God. I've seen these people, I know these people. They're not under the effects of Stockholm Syndrome. They've had experiences in their life that makes them feel that God is there. Believing in God, or any other religion for that matter, is a personal thing. No religion is a universal truism, because not everybody believes in the same thing. Personally, I'm agnostic and always have been, even as a child. I would go to church with my grandparents, but none of it really made sense to me. You expect me to believe, with faith alone, that an immortal deity created all that I see? Maybe 2,000 years ago I would have bought it, but not in todays modern world. :stoned:

But do people believe in God out of genuinity or do they believe in God because they are taught/introduced to it from an early age and repeated it on a regular basis forming a pattern that naturally instilled the religion into that person.

I hate to say it but it is a form of brainwashing when looked at in that context.

At the same time I definitely DO NOT deny that people genuinely believe in god. I cannot take their faith or religion away from them and refuse to even try. They are entitled to their beliefs and I would never intend to belittle them or their beliefs. I was merely discussing my own observations and viewpoints.




Some say everything happens for a reason. That may be true. If it isn't true, then the alternative is that it's all random and chaotic, and we're damned lucky to breathe every second that we do. Neither makes me feel better about things that happen. When somebody is diagnosed with cancer, some blame God. Other's blame karma or luck. In the end, it doesn't matter why, all that matters is what you do with the time you're given. Contemplating the why takes away from the now. :stoned:

I think the circumstaces as to how we came to be and our planet made life sustataining were random and chaotic; but I don't believe the present and future we make for ourselves are that way. :hippy:

[daihashi]

But you must have reasons to keep going. "I exist" doesn't cover all the work and energy you put into things does it?

Why do I need a reason to do things? I mean if you really think about it... we do things for our own reasons, for our wants, for our desires.

I keep going because I enjoy living. I enjoy what life has to offer, I enjoy making my own path. I don't feel I need a reason to "be". If you've ever enjoyed things you've done in your life.. if you can reflect back on your life and think things like "I did enjoyable things.. I helped people.. I had fun.. I contributed to society" then aren't the deeds, your history, your memories and everything that makes you YOU enough reason to keep going?

If you love yourself then that alone is enough reason to keep going.

[Weedhound]

I think what I'm talking about is the energy expended. I do things....say....assist someone on cdot....becasue it does something for me. So all that lovely chatter about helping mankind really is just that.......bullshit

But action takes energy.......where does this energy come from? What makes you expend energy in one direction vs another? Is it the rewards that you get immediately? The thought of a future reward perhaps? Or do you really run around and expend energy because you simply aren't dead yet? And because you aren't dead yet doesn't explain your choices either.

Ps....If that was the best I felt I had......"I'm not dead yet"........I'd be dead.

[daihashi]

You believe in 'destiny' in other words? Not me. It's all random. You can plan to build a bridge, but to factor in and prepare for everything that could happen is all but impossible. There's very little we have control over in this world.

Destiny, I don't believe in that.. I said I don't believe our future or present are random or chaotic. I mean WE MAKE our future.. We make our situation. You're right, it's impossible to factor in all the possibilities, but why even try to.

You try to assess any logistical problems you come across and make the best decision you can.

I could be taking a dump in my house and a guy could bust in the bathroom and shoot me. Random as hell, but is that likely.. no. So I feel it's moot to even worry about it.

We make our present and future to the best of our abilities. And we do this everyday even when we make trivial decisions like where to eat.

[Weedhound]

We make our present and future Dai..........to the best of our abilities.......that part is up for debate imo.

[Weedhound]

I think I will try this agnostic approach for a little while and see if it works for me.

Thanks you guys. :)

[daihashi]

I think what I'm talking about is the energy expended. I do things....say....assist someone on cdot....becasue it does something for me. So all that lovely chatter about helping mankind really is just that.......bullshit

I don't believe so. If you've ever seen a beautiful mind, and I hate using a movie reference for an in depth topic like this but it truely fits, there is a part where Nash is at a bar with his buddies and they are all eyeballing this girl. It was at that point he conceptualized that "what's best for the individual is best for the group". Meaning that if every one of them went for the girl she would turn them all down, but if they all went for other girls they would get what THEY WANT, and in turn the entire group would benefit.

The same holds true for just about anything. Yes you may be helping someone on here because it does something for you, but at the same time you are helping them. In that sense you are helping each other.. and all that lovely chatter about helping mankind is not bullshit, because by helping yourself.. you can help other people. :thumbsup:


But action takes energy.......where does this energy come from? What makes you expend energy in one direction vs another? Is it the rewards that you get immediately? The thought of a future reward perhaps? Or do you really run around and expend energy because you simply aren't dead yet? And because you aren't dead yet doesn't explain your choices either.

Ps....If that was the best I felt I had......"I'm not dead yet"........I'd be dead.

Well the answer to your question is different for every person. There's no clear cut reason. I struggled with this myself. Initially I would do things in what I thought was from the goodness of my heart and would always end up disappointed by the other person. Eventually I realized I was doing things because I expected an outcome from the other person. To be honest this really isn't bad except that it will lead to countless disappointment, heartache and other things.

Now I do things because I want to. If I get a reward or something back from it I will GLADLY take it; however if I don't get the response I was expecting or the favor reciprocated or anything along those lines I really don't care. I let go of having expectations and FOR ME that was the best thing I could have ever done and taught me so much more about myself. I realized recently that I really didnt know myself.

[Weedhound]

I think for me it is deciding more or less WHERE to expend my energy. It seems limited these days. Random and chaotic just doesn't cut it as a reason to choose one over another and the addition of a time factor (not saying I have one.......just saying I FEEL like I have one if you see the difference) is making me more and more confused. Probably just me feeling confused in general.

Even this post sounds confused. :wtf:

[daihashi]

I think for me it is deciding more or less WHERE to expend my energy. It seems limited these days. Random and chaotic just doesn't cut it as a reason to choose one over another and the addition of a time factor (not saying I have one.......just saying I FEEL like I have one if you see the difference) is making me more and more confused. Probably just me feeling confused in general.

Even this post sounds confused. :wtf:

The answer seems simple to me. With energy being a valuable commodity I would say spend the little energy you have where it would make YOU happiest. Especially if you have a time factor or it feels like you do. There's no sense in losing time over things that will not add to your life (when looking at time as a factor in all this).

If you question if an activity, interaction, or what not is something you really want to do then chances are your energy is best spent elsewhere. :hippy:

[daihashi]

I see what you're saying, but in the grand scheme of things our plans don't matter. :

Worrying about the if ands or buts that are outside our control are not even worth being concerned about. What benefit do we reap from it? I feel the opposite, I feel our plans matter and any crap that comes along the way doesn't matter. You can't help what is out of your control, you can only do your best to move beyond it.

I don't worry about the Random. If I did then I would not have accomplished many of the things I have in life.

Think about it like a hydro grow. You control every aspect of your grow, there are things that you can't control such as the yield, contaminated resevoir, you could get insects, cat might eat a plant.. etc etc.. crap happens, but you move forward, adapt and you don't worry about the bad that's happened because it can't be changed.

All you could do was try to plan your grow as best as you could before you started. AKA Creating your future to the best of your ability.


I mean sure we get along pretty well, but there's always the possibility of something happening that effects how we make our decisions... in other words it's all random if you ask me. :stoned

Of course there is... you are right, that's why I said we make our present and future to the best of our abilities. Meaning we make decisions based on logistical information presented to us and try to choose the best path forward. A plan can occur on the fly or pre-meditated. We do this on a daily basis as humans.

[Weedhound]

Well I was born and beaten into the catholic way of way so there's a natural "you darn well SHOULD feel guilty" seam that runs through that entire religion.

I remember an old saying from AA. If you aren't happy with your God....fire him and get a new one. That worked for me once before (and by "worked for me" I mean it gave what I felt was a purpose to my life) so I've been shopping around.........

[daihashi]

Well, sure that works on the present, but you also said the future. The future is never certain. The past has already happened, the present is what's happening now, and the future is subject to all the chaos of the universe. :stoned:

Sorry to sort of hijack your thread, Weedhound. ;)

You're saying that the future is not certain, but this does not mean that we cannot plan for it to the best of our abilities. If we did not then nothing would get accomplished.

Life is a calculated risk. You can sit on your ass and do nothing; or you can assess the risk and move forward accepting that things may not go as planned and you may have to change things accordingly.

The way you make it sound is as though we can't do anything about it so screw it. I would never conform to that mentality personally.

[daihashi]

Well I was born and beaten into the catholic way of way so there's a natural "you darn well SHOULD feel guilty" seam that runs through that entire religion.

I remember an old saying from AA. If you aren't happy with your God....fire him and get a new one. That worked for me once before (and by "worked for me" I mean it gave what I felt was a purpose to my life) so I've been shopping around.........

I know all about catholicism. My family is all catholic, well my mom converted to Pentecostal recently... which I will not even get into. She seems happy, all that matters to me even if parts of that religion seem silly to me.

If god wanted me living in guilt then I wouldn't want to know god. It sounds sacrilidgeous and it probably is, but if god loves us so much as Christianity likes to tell us then I refuse to believe that he would want us to feel like we're being punished our entire lives in order to get into heaven.

Regardless of the path you take WH I hope you find what you're looking for. If you ever need to vent or what not feel free to contact me on the boards or elsewhere :hippy:

As far as Im concerned if I knew you in person, you would be a person I would want in my life and therefore are my friend :thumbsup:

[Coelho]

I think the problem most people has with God comes from the wrong idea of God most people has. They think God is "a man in the sky", who does whatever He wish and likes to control people... they thing God has the same (fool) mind of human beings, full of human feelings, desires, needs, etc... and so, of course they dislike this idea. And i must say, if i thought God is this way i described, of course i would dislike it too.

I, personally, think that God is abstract. I think He is not human-like, so he has no feelings, desires, or whatever that we humans have. I think He is the base, the fundamental "matter" (i cand find a better word) of what the universe is made. I think every atom, every particle, and even the space are in Him, are part of Him. I would say that He is the substrate where the universe exists on (or in). I think He is conscious, and that would be the only resemblance He has with we humans, the consciousness.

I dont know or even concieve why He did create us. But this doesnt matter. I think once we were created, He would provide us with guidelines for our lifes be the best possible, and this guidelines are what people today calls "Gods commandments". Of course today this commandments are way scrambled, and most people dislike them. But i think most things that are said to be "against Gods will", "sins", or whatever, are actually things that does not any good for those who practice it. Killing someone will make your life better? Envying someone will do? Stealing, hating, all this things will make your life better? Of course not. Thats why they are called "sins" and are deemed wrong. So, we should avoid "sin" because its bad for us, and not because "God doesnt like it". I think God is far great to care about if we do sin or not. If we do sin, its our entire problem, and we will suffer the consequences of it. But, if we want live a good life, then we have a good set of guidelines to follow.

Some people resents it and wants to do anything with their lifes. Well, its their right. But think for a moment: if you saw a small children playing with something dangerous (lets say a knife), wouldnt you tell them to stop? Some persons would even take the knife from the children, no matter how angry it would be, or how much it would cry. Some persons would let the children cut itself and then learn the hard way. Anyway, i doubt someone would do nothing or even say nothing, just watch the children cut itself. And i think the same goes with God. He advised people what was bad for them, but if they really wish to harm themselves doing bad things, the He lets them do it and learn the hard way. Some never do. But at least He advised them, He did His part. So, if someone harmed itself, its their own entire fault.

At last, i must agree that todays religion has strayed way far from its original purposes, and now its just more one persons group, with all the bad things that come from every human group, as search for power, status, control, etc. But religion is VERY different from spirituality. Spirituality is the right way, and it was the religions origin way back. But now true spirituality is rare, even among the religions. And thats why the religions are going downwards.

[phatsesh101]

hey i was supposed to be catholic, the school, church all the time til a teen never really believed in their depiction of god though it didnt make sense being perfect and making the devil who is bad he should have known and not made him i think i was 5 or 6 with that thought. well ne way

i believe faith is a tool to be used not faith in god but faith in the way it is
dont really want to explain this but its similar to bruce lees def. of emotion as a whole not anger or sadness or hapiness etc. but emotion.

but all that aside ima mutt and have heard several types of religion at close range from pagan irish to chritianity islam wicken and some judiasm iwill also say ive seen magic work great grandfather took aunt out into woods on new moon rubbed warts on her hand and while saying somthing two days later they were gone long b4 wart meds

i do good things for the feeling i get when im doing it. all religions have similarities like prayer or spells which tend to work better with faith or concentrated emotion.

with that being said i like the story of the ancient sumarians and the annanaki for instance gilgamesh which predates noah by i believe ten thousand years same story though. well its pretty interesting and it says there is another sun that may travel around or sun on an elongated orbit that comes around every 3000 years or some thing with huminoid beings that come with it planet x, revelation and two suns the missing link in evolution and the aliens crossing thier dna with primates on this planet for a slave race and chariots of fire

in ww1 pilots were forced to land in africa where they encounterd people who had not yet seen any civilization other than ther vilage 10 years later they returnded to the village where they had idols of planes and the people who flew and regarded them as their god.

[Weedhound]

all great stuff....thanks everybody. :)

[GreenDestiny]

"When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion." - Robert Pirsig

I wish there were some kind of way to spread more awareness that religion is often just another form of psychological abuse.

Everything else is a lie. You must believe what we believe. If you do then we will accept you and you'll be eternally rewarded for your conformity to our way of life and morals. If you don't then you'll be punished forever after you die.

yep... it definitely is brainwashing kids into being like a victim of Stockholm syndrome. We're not ALL held physically by religious doctrines (though some really are) but we are all potential victims of the mental effects (fear, shame, guilt, etc.) that many religions try to instill upon us and remain loyal to the teachings.... or ELSE!

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

everything that ever happens, good or bad, happens with the purpose of balancing out the universe. the universe works to no individual or group's favor, it simply exists for the purpose of perpetual existence.
we are but genes of a cosmic body - we are expendable for the sake of perpetuating the universe.


when we die, we become the universe's resources. our bodies become dirt, bug food, and stone. we perpetuate the earth's existence by dying.


if there is a god, there is no proof for or against, so why even worry about it. either you believe or you dont, keep it to yourself until there's concrete proof.