Mums Sick??

[SnSstealth]

As you can tell, I have been topping the shit outta these girls to be good mums. The have not received any extra nutes yet.Just water, and the FFoF, Roots, and seed starting soil mix, (end of the bags), and about 30% perlite.

Now the ladies are about 7-8 in tall, and MANY side branches/clone sites.
Well now, half of them are going completely purple on the stems, stalk and starting to go into the leaf veins.HELP!!!!! Dont see how rootbound can be an issue on such small plants in 1 gal pots, they have only been in the pots for 3 weeks from rockwool. So deficiency? Lockout? Light issue? dunno.....
whiskeytango


None of the mothers where like this...Few purple streaks on the stalk and leaf stems, but nothing this bad..

[DrSpoof]

According to the Bible, it looks like Phosphorus (P) deficiency.

Caused by:
pH above 7 (P cannot be absorbed properly) or
pH below 5.8 and/or an excess of iron & zinc or
Soil has become fixated (chemically bound) with phosphates (?)

Looks like:
Stunted an very slow growth plants
Dark bluish-green leaves, often with dark blotches
Plants are smaller overall
Stems, leaf stems and main veins turn reddish-purple starting on the leaf's underside

Treat by:
Lowering pH to 5.5 - 6.5 for potting soils so P will become available.
Use Super Bloom fertilizers (designed for flowering) to add P

Hope this helps WT :thumbsup:

Spiggs

[Weedhound]

Stealth short bushy plants have tons of roots too.....you can't go by the height of your plants root needs if you've been topping and lsting.......transplant to larger pot asap!

[SnSstealth]

So how do people keep plants much larger than this for a long time without getting rootbound? Am I gonna be able to do 1 gal pots throughout the room Like we planned? I need to be able to keep them in 1 gals. To keep them from getting rootbound, should I send them into flowering earlier? I dunno...shits aggravating as hell...I have had 3ft plants all day in 3 gals and them not get rootbound...I added the perlite, lots...lol
Sorry for the ranting, lol...If I transplant the mums to 3gal, as long as they are getting haircuts monthy, will they be able to maintain in 3 gal? The way I have been pruning them was to keep em small so they could stay in smaller pots...IDK...Shit man, I have seen bonsai moms larger than these in 4.5in pots!!! So what am I doing wrong?!?!?
whiskeytango

Please know none of this frustration is directed to you WH, lol.

[DrSpoof]

AFAIK, you have to trim the rootball from time to time with bonzai moms... twice a year maybe?

weird that your plants seem to always get rootbound WT, doesnt make sense to me... :wtf:

spiggs

[veggii]

dude they look hungry! feed them you might have over watered also
I saw in the book Griffin's Spin-Out contianing copper hydroxide painted inside containers to prune roots ? may help rootbound issues?

[veggii]

oh yea i forgot i doubt they are rootbound have you had a look at rootmass? i gave that info(copperhydroxide) for future reference also i saw some nice 2 gal and 3 gal pots @ lowes but if your planing on doing full grow in 1gal containers you might want to check out the (CH) says its way too prune the roots ;)

Grow Marijuana FAQ, Cannabis cultivation - marijuana growing tips & photos (http://www.stonerforums.com/lounge/growfaq/1321.html)



:hippy: :hippy: :hippy: :hippy: :hippy:

[Rusty Trichome]

Even if you trim the foliage, the roots keep growing. (hopefully)
Slip the rootball out, and see if it's rootbound. If it is, transplant to a larger pot, or look in my signature for Bonsai techniques. If rootbound, overwatering doesn't compensate for lack of rootspace.
If you decide to bonsai, take cuttings first. (just in case)

[stinkyattic]

Do NOT bring your water pH to 5.5-6.5! :eek: The correct pH for potting soils is 6.5-6.9, and soilless 6.3-6.6.
Looks like low soil pH causing lockout and rootbound causing crappy soil chem.
Is that a pot with a built-in catch tray?
Get it off and check your runoff pH. Also slide the plant out when the root ball is dry and look at the roots.
I foliar feed with GH Micro while I am trying to solve these sorts of things, to bypass the roots and allow feeding to continue while the problem is sorted.

You may be ready for a re-pot. Either way, I'd do it- your soil chem is off and needs fixin'. Flush @ 6.9, feed lightly @ 6.9, allow to dry, re-pot into fresh light soil in a slightly larger pot.

[daihashi]

So how do people keep plants much larger than this for a long time without getting rootbound? Am I gonna be able to do 1 gal pots throughout the room Like we planned? I need to be able to keep them in 1 gals. To keep them from getting rootbound, should I send them into flowering earlier? I dunno...shits aggravating as hell...I have had 3ft plants all day in 3 gals and them not get rootbound...I added the perlite, lots...lol
Sorry for the ranting, lol...If I transplant the mums to 3gal, as long as they are getting haircuts monthy, will they be able to maintain in 3 gal? The way I have been pruning them was to keep em small so they could stay in smaller pots...IDK...Shit man, I have seen bonsai moms larger than these in 4.5in pots!!! So what am I doing wrong?!?!?
whiskeytango

Please know none of this frustration is directed to you WH, lol.

Well you can keep a mother in a 1 gallon pot for an indefinite period of time, however you have to keep trimming the root ball. I believe you can remove up to 25% of the root mass without it stressing the plant too much.

However if you do this you need to trim the top also. I learned very quickly in my last LST grow that bushy plants make massive root systems.

I think a good rule of thumb from being able to judge your root space is to look at the foliage on the plant. How much do you have.. does it seem to overwhelm the pot? If so then it's probably time to transplant.

I have a good link that teaches how to bonsai moms and how to maintain the root mass. I'll see if I can find it after power is restored to my house from Hurricane Ike. :hippy:

[SnSstealth]

I was out of town, and really would like to thank you guys for responding!...Cant lose the mums!

whiskeytango

[justdirt]

just looked at the sick mommies. you'll get them back don't worry. I grow organic and I never worry about ph, WHAT? you may say. but if your soil has the proper microbial life ph will regulate it's self. Right now I use advanced nutrients and I put a major emphasis on the fuzzy roots package available from discountan.com. And it's not that the ph regulates itself but the microbes that take care of this. As long as they are there they convert the nutrients to the readily available forms and pass it along to the roots. They have a symbiotic relationship that has been there for millions of years. check out that package it will make a difference. Another company called humbolt nutrients( I wonder what these were developed for...ha) has a similar line of products I'm going to try them out after I run out of my advanced nutrients. I promise I'm not just some kook coming out of the woodwork. I've had practical experience and plenty of failure to learn from. just give it a shot the microbes will make your life alot easier.

[SnSstealth]

thanks for the info dirt!! pretty sure it was just them being rootbound. it was BAD when we transplanted, lol...
and we are definitely looking at the micros...
whiskeytango

[stinkyattic]

The microbes can't do much against the problems when your lime runs out and the acidity of the peat moss becomes the dominant chemical force in your medium.
If you intend for your pH to self-regulate, start with a nice humusy compost, or follow the re-potting schedule recommended for promix, which is FREQUENTLY.

[justdirt]

agreed. I use fox farm oceans forest soil and after each box comes out i empty it into my used soil bin then throw in an equal amount of fresh oceans forest about a cubic foot of each and a about a cup of lime. I figured that was standard practice. it saves money on dirt. oh yeah i also add quite a bit of perlite to the fresh stuff to avoid compaction. but through this and the microbes i never have ph problems. also my RO'd water is always at 6.0 when it comes out of the machine. i bought a batch of earth juice ph adjusting crystals 4 years ago and could still take them back to the store for a refund because they are still that full. It's one of the main reasons i've never gone to hydro plus i feel that organic is always better for taste, health, and the planet. just wanted to say that it is great to finally be able to share my thoughts with other like minded people. where i live it's like I'm on an island by myself because nobody around here grows and they are all ready to come steal it. I can't talk to anybody about it so this is a great release for me. keeping a secret is hard.

[justdirt]

what size container do you use for a full grown mother? indoors i've never had a plant out grow a 10 gallon container. but I also don't exactly "keep" a mother. I just clone the plants in my veg area just before i move them into my flowering room so the longest any of my plants are in any of my containers is three months max. two plants per box so not really long enough to become rootbound enough to be detramental. i dont think i spelled that right.detrimental detremental detramental hell you know what i'm saying

[fantumx420]

Do NOT bring your water pH to 5.5-6.5! :eek: The correct pH for potting soils is 6.5-6.9, and soilless 6.3-6.6.


I have also seen purple stems and older leaves that are yellowing from the outside in, tips curling up and drying, and spots that look exactly like these and various other pictures of potassium deficiency. The chemdog clone was received 14 days ago from a shop, was transplanted into a 5' pots filled with a soiless mix of perlite, vermeculite, peat, and coir which claims 45% air retention when fully saturated, and placed into a 10 gallon ebb and flow using a quarter of the recommended dose of Botanicare Pure Blend Pro Bloom 2-3-5 during veg (guy at the hydro shop recommended this, I thought it odd not to use a the grow formula) and I am now adding and Advanced Nutrients Bud Candy 0-0-1 during week one through six of flowering (I'm on week one). I feed twice daily, one hour after lights on and two hours before lights out. . I use the liquid color chart to adjust my ph vary hard tap water to about 5.9 as recommended in Jorge's "Bible". I have a difficult time getting R/O water and thought the hard tap water was my problem. Extremely hard water can cause potassium deficiencies from my understanding. I do want to avoid using R/O water because I will need to purchase and use CalMag and I was trying to do this on a budget.
Can I still use the hard tap water and just raise my ph to 6.4-ish?
The area is a 2'-4'-7' grow hut sectioned into a 4.5' tall bloom box on bottom with a 2.5' tall veg box on top. A 200w CFL feeds the one problem clone the bloom box. Day temps are 78 and night temps dip to 68. Humidity ranges from 40% to 18% because the hard water leaves traces of mineral deposits throughtout the bloom box mainly but some gets sucked into the veg on the way out. I assume these mineral deposits are not good for the plants or mine and my cat's and it is better to run low humidity than have mineral deposits on the leaves.
Last question. The book I am following recommends inducing flowering after only 16-ish days to maintain a small canopy for CFL light penetration. I have cracked a few seeds that I will do this with unless...
Apologies for the long story to ask about ph. I'm a first time grower (never could get past the seed stage).