is the house's owner held accountable, as well as the resident grower? [Archive] - Green Grass Forums

backwoodsindo

09-01-2008, 03:38 AM

LuciferN

09-01-2008, 05:44 AM

Well depends where you live but be sure that he will have a tight questionning and they will try to almost anything to make him talk to the point he ''spits it out". It all depends on how big is the grow, is it a rent or a co-buy, etc... I suggest you go to the library and find the laws about narcotis in you're country. Keep silent, safe and secure...

daihashi

09-01-2008, 01:41 PM

daihashi

09-01-2008, 01:41 PM

hate to open up a whole new thread for such a simple question but the relevent thread where i wanted to ask it was "closed."
OK.. hypothetical of course... my dad agrees to buy a country home... I live there and grow pounds... I somehow get arrested.. can he just say he didn't know anything about it and not face any consequences himself?

Yes if you somehow get arrested your dad will most likely face some consequences also. I get the impression you shouldn't be growing at home and perhaps that you probably shouldn't be on these forums (age).

LuciferN

09-01-2008, 01:54 PM

Don't give bad advice.

I don't see what is the bad advise there, can you please tell me ?

daihashi

09-01-2008, 02:22 PM

I don't see what is the bad advise there, can you please tell me ?

ok.. no problem

Well depends where you live

No it doesn't depend on where you live. Federal law is federal law. The owner of the property will most likely take at least part of the blame. Of course things can be worked out with good lawyers; but it doesn't depend on where you live this is something you should anticipate regardless of where you make home.

Bad Advice.

but be sure that he will have a tight questionning and they will try to almost anything to make him talk to the point he ''spits it out".

Uhh.. he asked if he grew if the person who owned the property would get in trouble. Here you are almost advocating for the owner of the property to not talk. Guess what, if the owner withholds information and then he get's caught he'll be in way more sheit than otherwise.

Point being, you did not address his question at all and tried to encourage him to put other people at risk.

Bad advice.

It all depends on how big is the grow, is it a rent or a co-buy, etc...

It doesn't depend on how big the grow is. Trouble is trouble is trouble. 1 plant will still get you in trouble with the law.

In relation to his question... bad advice.

I suggest you go to the library and find the laws about narcotis in you're country. Keep silent, safe and secure..

this was good advice. :thumbsup:

backwoodsindo

09-01-2008, 06:40 PM

daihashi

09-01-2008, 07:46 PM

your impression is way off. I'm an adult. So you're saying that if a relative buys you a house... say my dad is very wealthy and decides to buy me a cabin in the woods for a christmas present, just a place to go fishing and hang out... and I grow, a sizable operation, nothing outrageous but a serious operation for sure... you're saying that my dad would get in trouble if I got caught? Why would the judge have a hard time believing he knew nothing about it?

I'm sure if your dad has the money to buy you your very own cabin in the woods as a christmas present.. just for you to get away, that you would probably be asking a lawyer for legal advice rather than asking a forum full of people who obviously have a bias towards cannabis.

If he bought you a house good for you (although he obviously didn't if the deed is not in your name)... if you're not below 18 years old.. then good for you, but the fact remains that regardless.... he will hold some responsibility as this is his property.

You would need a contractual agreement that free's him from all responsibilities of what happens in that house, but that is something for your Rich Dad, You and a Lawyer to figure out.

backwoodsindo

09-01-2008, 08:26 PM

I'm sure if your dad has the money to buy you your very own cabin in the woods as a christmas present.. just for you to get away, that you would probably be asking a lawyer for legal advice rather than asking a forum full of people who obviously have a bias towards cannabis.

If he bought you a house good for you (although he obviously didn't if the deed is not in your name)... if you're not below 18 years old.. then good for you, but the fact remains that regardless.... he will hold some responsibility as this is his property.

You would need a contractual agreement that free's him from all responsibilities of what happens in that house, but that is something for your Rich Dad, You and a Lawyer to figure out.

I'm not really inclined to call up some lawyer and tell him I'm thinking about growing cannabis, or lead him to believe I am. Why couldn't my dad buy a house for me with the deed in his name? And why would I need a "contractual agreement"? If I got arrested I would tell the judge my dad had no idea I was doing anything illegal. I thought maybe somebody in this forum would know how this works. Like I said, I don't really feel like asking anyone such a question without the beautiful anonymity I get in this forum.

daihashi

09-01-2008, 08:38 PM

I'm not really inclined to call up some lawyer and tell him I'm thinking about growing cannabis, or lead him to believe I am.

Actually you can. It's perfectly legal to discuss this with a lawyer. There are lawyers who do this for free. In addition you would want to tell them you're the owner of a property (role reversal) and not that YOU are growing. Your discussions with a lawyer are confidential and cannot be discussed or submitted to court or law officials.

Why couldn't my dad buy a house for me with the deed in his name?

Well that's just the thing. If it's not in your name then legally it's not your house, now is it?

And why would I need a "contractual agreement"? If I got arrested I would tell the judge my dad had no idea I was doing anything illegal.

And you say you're an adult? You need something to free your father of responsibility of anything happening at the house. There are many risks involved in not doing so. I am not a lawyer so I am not giving you legal advice here but things that could happen could include but not limited to seizure of the property, your dad thrown in jail, and possibly share a lesser crime on his record. Just so you can grow your pot?

I thought maybe somebody in this forum would know how this works. Like I said, I don't really feel like asking anyone such a question without the beautiful anonymity I get in this forum.

Well, I pretty much just told you how it works. I thought I spelled it out very clearly. No one on this forum can give you ACTUAL legal advice unless they are a lawyer. It is against forum policy.

psychocat

09-01-2008, 11:29 PM

Landlords and owners of property are bound to ensure that tenants aren't breaking the law.
There are laws covering the issue of allowing property to be used for illegal purposes, if your fathers name is on the deed then it is his responsibility to ensure this does not happen.

psychocat

09-01-2008, 11:43 PM

BTW

These laws have been used to sieze the assets of various people under the Comprehensive Forfeiture Act of 1984 , under this act it makes the responsibility of owners quite clear. The "owner" must be pro-active in ensuring that thier property is not being used for illegal purposes and must take any steps to prevent it.
A yacht owner had his vessel siezed under these laws after his boat was used for a party and a remnant of a joint was found . it was decided that since he "allowed" the vessel to be used for illegal purposes he must face the consequences. The courts decided that since the owner had not carried out sufficient checks it was his inaction that "allowed" his vessel to be used for the illegal activity of toking.

You would be placing your father in a very similar position

Ignorance of the law is not accepted by courts.

daihashi

09-02-2008, 01:38 AM

Don't mind daihashi, he's one of a few people who's sole goal in life is to make as many people miserable on the boards as possible. I just ignore it now.

No.. It's my goal to speak the truth. He asked something and I answered him. He insisted that it was ok for him to do said legal activity.. I expressed to him once again it was not.

If telling someone they are putting their father in danger means that my sole goal is to make people's lives on here miserable then I guess it is.

I can't believe you went out of your way to talk shit about me in a legal forum where the guy was obviously wrong in what he believed to be acceptable in the eyes of the court. If you have a grudge against me then take it up with a mod. Don't go into other threads that I'm participating in just to be a jerk.

DaBudhaStank

09-02-2008, 01:53 AM

No.. It's my goal to speak the truth. He asked something and I answered him. He insisted that it was ok for him to do said legal activity.. I expressed to him once again it was not.

If telling someone they are putting their father in danger means that my sole goal is to make people's lives on here miserable then I guess it is.

I can't believe you went out of your way to talk shit about me in a legal forum where the guy was obviously wrong in what he believed to be acceptable in the eyes of the court. If you have a grudge against me then take it up with a mod. Don't go into other threads that I'm participating in just to be a jerk.

Oh no, I'm knocking you because you went out of your way to make this guy feel as bad as you could, as stupid as you could. God forbid you could have been polite to him in the first place. You made it seem INCONCEIVABLE that his father could buy him a cabin, AND called him out on his age for no apparent reason. Just making sure the douchbaggery makes a full circle.

backwoodsindo

09-02-2008, 02:37 AM

daihashi

09-02-2008, 04:23 AM

Oh no, I'm knocking you because you went out of your way to make this guy feel as bad as you could, as stupid as you could. God forbid you could have been polite to him in the first place. You made it seem INCONCEIVABLE that his father could buy him a cabin, AND called him out on his age for no apparent reason. Just making sure the douchbaggery makes a full circle.

You need to watch yourself. You're in violation of board rules

-- If you are deemed making immature, contentless posts, consider your account will also be be PERMANENT banned. (this is up to mods and admins)

-- No Racism, No Personal Attacks on Others and or Co-Ops/Dispensaries, No threats of violence and/or the Like

Perhaps it was premature for me to assume he was a kid, but if you've read any posts you would know that people CONSTANTLY come here asking about growing in their parents place and then they end up being under age.

While I admit I should not have stereotyped him I don't think I put him down as much as you'd like to say. You are the one with the problem budahstank. You are the one who takes my words personally when they are just word. I'm sorry I don't talk to you the way that you like, but that's your problem not mine. If you don't like me it's very easy to just not acknowledge me when participating in a thread and if you feel as though I've done something wrong then I strongly suggest you go contact a mod and get it sorted out.

I have no problem with discussing any problem you may have with a mod.

daihashi

09-02-2008, 04:24 AM

I admit I'm a little naive when it comes to the legality of owning property. I'm adult, just not one who has owned property. I'm 24. I would never put anyone at risk, especially my own father, and this is all hypothetical anyways. I appreciate all of your comments. I gather that he could buy the property and turn the deed over to my name, thereby ridding himself of any responsibility. Is this correct? If so, that would seem to be the obvious solution... can't believe I didn't think of that. I guess I thought that the property would be under the name of whoever put up the money.

Sorry about seeming so abrasive. Understand that we have alot of younger kids who come in here and ask this same question. I apologize for putting you in that category.

Yes, as long as the deed is in your name; aka the property is legally yours, then your father will bare no responsibility. :thumbsup:

backwoodsindo

09-02-2008, 06:59 AM

no problem, I don't blame you. and I'm sorry for sounding skeptical of the danger I would hypothetically be putting my dad in.

stinkyattic

09-02-2008, 02:40 PM

If the Feds could prove that your father was aware of the grow, they could take the house and charge him with conspiracy to manufacture.
Your name should be on a legal deed or legal lease of any dwelling you choose to grow in, but do not own, to protect the owner. And it is in the owner's best interest never to set foot on the property. This gives reasonable doubt, should the unthinkable happen.
We do not discuss cash-cropping here by the way. If you choose to do something like this, please take all precautions to never put anyone else in danger, and please keep the 'pounds' discussion off the boards. Just a friendly reminder, thanks!

As a fairly recent homeowner (I bought my house at 26 and started growing in it a year later), I suggest getting comfortable in your home and career before taking the next step. It will save you a lot of stress down the road.

backwoodsindo

09-02-2008, 04:12 PM

sorry, i'm beginning to realize that this forum is quite different from Overgrow.com, where the motto was "overgrow the government!" I should have read the rules before posting. And since Overgrow got shut down, Cannabis.com's tighter rules are probably for the better. I will never allude to "cash cropping" again.

However, it's undeniable that a forum like this is an excellent resource for anyone inclined to grow for profit. So I think it's a bit hypocritical to take a stance of opposition to "cash cropping" while at the same time spreading detailed instructional information about growing cannabis on a public forum.

stinkyattic

09-02-2008, 04:19 PM

As you are no doubt aware, there are many states with active legal MMJ programs, and many MORE states with up and coming legislation to put MMJ on the books.

This site exists to support people who benefit from medical marijuana; I fail to see the hypocrisy in that- it is a large and growing demographic, with a bright future! While certainly our site may help prospective cashcroppers learn to grow, that is simply a side-effect of teaching everyone else to produce their own medicine safely and cheaply, and with a sense of personal pride in their work.

Be active, be positive, be safe!

khronik

09-02-2008, 09:24 PM

No it doesn't depend on where you live. Federal law is federal law. The owner of the property will most likely take at least part of the blame. Of course things can be worked out with good lawyers; but it doesn't depend on where you live this is something you should anticipate regardless of where you make home.

Bad Advice.
Not at all. Most small growing operations are prosecuted under state law, not federal law, so looking up state law is certainly helpful. Of course, if you're transporting weed across state lines for any reason, then the feds are much more likely to get involved. And a lot of people have older parents who own multiple houses. Just because their parents let them stay in their second house, doesn't mean they're not an adult.

I do like daihashi's idea of talking to a lawyer saying that you own property and you want to know if you're legally responsible if your tenant grows weed.

psychocat

09-02-2008, 10:38 PM

I do like daihashi's idea of talking to a lawyer saying that you own property and you want to know if you're legally responsible if your tenant grows weed.

Yes the landlord is responsible for what he allows to occur on his premises.
He is bound by law to carry out regular inspections of the property to prevent illegal use of said property wether it is for business or a dwelling.

flyingimam

09-02-2008, 11:19 PM

Not at all. Most small growing operations are prosecuted under state law, not federal law, so looking up state law is certainly helpful.

helpful >> maybe
makes a different>> NO

this is where the dilemma lies man!

DEA is a federal agency, most considerable grows busted are busted by or in part by federal agents of DEA and sometimes even FBI & US Marshals

State LEO may always be at disposal for use however!

as for small grows, well u gotta be a freakin idiot to get busted with a small grow... cuz technically u shouldn't raise any attention if u r a small timer and if u know what u r doing

however, the base line is FEDERAL LAW prohibits marijuana cultivation and possession and thats why in the first place anyone would wanna bust a grow... state laws in violation have little to no effect and state laws in support of federal law are kinda taken from this fed law itself, thus local authorities essentially are using the federal law to bust ya!

the image reaper

09-03-2008, 02:07 AM

helpful >> maybe
makes a different>> NO

this is where the dilemma lies man!

DEA is a federal agency, most considerable grows busted are busted by or in part by federal agents of DEA and sometimes even FBI & US Marshals

State LEO may always be at disposal for use however!

as for small grows, well u gotta be a freakin idiot to get busted with a small grow... cuz technically u shouldn't raise any attention if u r a small timer and if u know what u r doing

however, the base line is FEDERAL LAW prohibits marijuana cultivation and possession and thats why in the first place anyone would wanna bust a grow... state laws in violation have little to no effect and state laws in support of federal law are kinda taken from this fed law itself, thus local authorities essentially are using the federal law to bust ya!

yup :jointsmile:

stinkyattic

09-03-2008, 12:11 PM

Yes the landlord is responsible for what he allows to occur on his premises.
^^^This right here is THE MOST IMPORTANT concept in this thread.^^^

The law does not state that the landlord is responsible for everything going on on his property. He is responsible for activities of which he is AWARE.

Your job as the tenant, to protect the landlord, is to do such a good job keeping it from his knowledge that when he is questioned, he can HONESTLY say, "I did not allow that to happen, and I was not aware that it was happening." If you have done your part, you have provided something called 'reasonable doubt', and that is how cases get thrown out.

macnasty

09-27-2008, 08:57 AM

The law does not state that the landlord is responsible for everything going on on his property. He is responsible for activities of which he is AWARE.

Case scenario: electric bill increases suddenly by X dollars a month, and remains so indeterminately. Property owner inevitably notices the change in the monthly bill, but takes no action. Property owners worldwide are seeing similar sudden and permanent changes to their household bills. Question: can they still reasonably claim ignorance? Remember, this is a SUDDEN and CONSISTENT (and exciting!) change to the otherwise mundane bill they're used to receiving each month.

stinkyattic

09-29-2008, 04:13 PM

I would say that there are enough other reasons for a change in the utility bill that there IS reasonable doubt in this situation. Scenario: Tenant bought a plasma screen TV. Scenario: Tenant has fallen ill and is running a space heater. There are many. I would NEVER grow in a place where the landlord pays electric, however. That is just too far out of your control as a factor in your privacy.

psychocat

09-29-2008, 07:05 PM

It isn't a simple case of being unaware , the law also states that it is a lanlords responsibility to ensure that thier property isn't being misused.
This means that they must carry out regular inspections of the property to prevent any misuse , the law is very specific in this as it has been a get out in the past for landlords "turning a blind eye".
The law was ammended to make the responsibility of landlord and tenant clear.

jer001

09-29-2008, 07:21 PM

thats why the police have been knocking on my door :wtf:

stinkyattic

09-29-2008, 07:22 PM

If you can find the new wording that states the landlord has to inspect the place, definitely post it up- state or fed? Also I am wondering if it specifies that the landlord must ENTER the building/apartment to do these inspections, or just kinda poke around and make sure things are cool. I know that the legal leases I have seen have clauses for removing tenants when their behaviour impacts the neighbors or results in repeated police visits. This is all the more reason to live your lifestyle in a quiet and unassuming way, that's for sure!

Anyway this thread just showed up in the report area and be assured that it has been under scrutiny and some of the more insulting stuff is gone. Please continue to be nice, everyone... same team, eh?

jer001

09-29-2008, 07:29 PM

My landlord inspects my apartment once a year for fire safety. I am glad I am legally able to grow with my card for medical reasons.

psychocat

09-29-2008, 07:34 PM

My landlord inspects my apartment once a year for fire safety. I am glad I am legally able to grow with my card for medical reasons.

That is also a legal requirement . :thumbsup: :D

psychocat

09-29-2008, 07:56 PM

Criminal Acts and Activities: Landlord Liability Seattle WA - Seattle WA, legal attorney, Seattle WA lawsuit, Seattle WA law firm, Seattle WA tenant, Seattle WA landlord, Seattle WA Property & Money (http://articles.directorym.net/Criminal_Acts_and_Activities_Landlord_Liability_Se attle_WA-r936042-Seattle_WA.html)
This one covers the Seattle area but may others have similar laws in place.
They use similar laws to confiscate buildings that have been used as brothels under the "allowing the use of a building for immoral purposes" banner, it is to make landlords more accountable for what happens on thier premises.

thecreator

09-30-2008, 12:49 AM

Idk,said conversation seems to elude to one general out come.Study up on said laws intent and general goings on of the legal world around you before you make such bold ventures.Good luck all and all,cheers to the idea;can't wait for execution!...of said plan

geoluv

09-30-2008, 04:57 PM

its not automatic, like everyone said its up to the police to PROVE that the landowner knew what was going on or not. if you have your stories straight the landlord will be fine. the police cant even question him untill they have enough evidence to charge him, a little thing called habius corpus.

honestly if you are buying a country home get one thats VAST and FAR AWAY FROM CIVILIZATION!!!! its hard to do if you dont like the country and being far as shit from everything but if your a hardcore farmer and you love growing weed its easy and its the best way. plant your crops far away from the house, that way you can argue people planted it on your property without your knoledge AND THE STATE HAS TO PROVE OTHERWISE, REASONABLE DOUBT YADA YADA YADA.

because of this when cops do flyovers and find large crops out in fields they rarely ever try to prosecute the land owner, they just rip em all out. i mean thats the way it was in the NON-medical state where i grew up.... it was a blue state though.

if the crop is right behind your house clearly visable from your back porch then its kinda hard to say you didnt know about it.

stinkyattic

09-30-2008, 05:20 PM

Habeas corpus literally means 'holding body' and means they can't detain him for more than a set period of time without a charge; they can, however, give him the ol' knock-n-talk whenever they feel like it.

psychocat

09-30-2008, 07:15 PM

, that way you can argue people planted it on your property without your knoledge AND THE STATE HAS TO PROVE OTHERWISE, REASONABLE DOUBT YADA YADA YADA.

Which is precisely the reason that many states have introduced similar laws to the ones I posted above making it a landlords requirement to "ensure" that thier property isn't being used.
The landlord must take a pro-active stance and inspect his property.

Stinky is right on the money when it comes to the writ of HC.
Habeas corpus can only be used to challenge unlawful imprisonment it does not prevent the questioning of any suspect , the suspect may of course use his/her right to remain silent* and his/her right to an attorney*. :D

You don't need to be arrested to exercise your rights.. :thumbsup: :cool:

stinkyattic

09-30-2008, 07:30 PM

...the suspect may of course use his/her right to remain silent* and his/her right to an attorney*. Lol... like the asterixes... asterii? uh... anyway... the cynic in me is chuckling at your annotations.

geoluv

10-13-2008, 05:17 PM

HB means "no detention without charge"

yeh they can do a knock-and-talk. doesn't mean to have to answer the knock. they'd be knocken' on my door all night. even if you decide to answer the door they cant make you stay and talk to them about anything. all you have to do is identify yourself and say "i have nothing to say to you, i am asking you to leave now". thats it, they always try to get people to "come down to the station" to talk to them, and they always try really hard to make it seem like its not optional, but unless you are being arrested or a warrant for your arrest has been issued, you have absolutely NO legal obligation to speak to the cops, or go anywhere with them for questioning.

if they call you and ask you to come down to the station ask "am i being arrested?" and if they say "no we just want to ask you some questions" then say "well i have nothing to say, so im not coming down to the station".

if they are investigating a crime (they found bud on your renters property) then they have the legal right to detain you for 10 minutes to "gather evidence", but they cant search any property without a warrant. there isn't much evidence they can gather from seeing the outside of my door for 10 minutes (this is why you don't answer the door), so they rarely invoke this privilege during the "knock and talks" or supposed "questioning". when you say "i have nothing to say to you, i am not going with you" then the conversation is usually over and you get the satisfaction of seeing a cop steaming in his boots as we waddles away with his tail between his legs after having his beloved laws turned against him by a simple stoner.

remember kids, the constitution is your friend. its the most important set of laws in America when it comes to growing weed, or anything.

psychocat

10-13-2008, 07:25 PM

That's all well and good geo but it doesn't really work as a defence , the onus is on you to prevent illegal use of your property and that includes regular inspections , if you are found to be guilty of allowing the property to be used for illegal purposes then the property can be siezed.
Often in a court the choice to "remain silent" can prove to be disastrous as many see it as a sign of guilt.
If ganja was found on your property then you can almost guarantee that the police will seek a warrant before coming knocking on your door.

Never allow anyone to grow on your property except yourself, never grow on another mans land , then if the shit hits the fan it's only you taking the flak.

I cannot accept involving innocents in any crime I may choose to commit and I cannot advocate anyone elses doing it.