same species, same problems, different grow

[allrollsin21]

Having some problems. Please take a look and share your wisdom!

OUTDOOR
SOIL

25% Perlite, 75% Fox Farm Ocean 5 gallon pots

Soil or slab runoff pH..........6.8

E-Water Source..........Well Water

E-Source water pH.......7.0

E-Age of plant..........3 Months
E-Type of fertilizer.........1/2 strength PBP Bloom, Calmag,Hydroplex (just started) Sweet, Karma
1/2 strength Liquid Lights Foliar every 3 days
E-Rate of application............every 3rd watering...once a week
E-Distance from light source....Sun-93.2 million miles
E-Air temperature Days are 85-100 nights are 50-65

E-Air % Relative humidity.....very low, dry California
E-Lighting schedule..........approx 12 12

There is yellowing leaves starting from the Veins and moving outwards. Always from the bottom of the plant, upwards.
I checked the run-off PH and PPMs of the soil and they came out at 6.7 and 330 ppms. This was about 5 days after i had fed them.

The yellowing sdeems to be increasing in the rate and will have taken out the whole bottom half of the plants in a week or so. This has been going on for over two weeks and is getting worse.
I started them with low fertilizer at the start of bloom. I used 1/4 strength bloom and 1/4 strength grow formula.
A few leaves have brown edges, but not many. The closest pictures i can find with similar, but not really exact is a Potassium def.

Thanks for taking the time to help me troubleshoot. This is my second outdoor grow ever and i had the same exact problem on the first. I have been way more vigilant with my PH and feeding schedule, so i am bummed this is happening again. Any ideas?

[Weedhound]

Allsrolls I am NO soil pro for sure but I've just started doing some soil stuff myself and use pretty much the same formula you do....FFOF and perlite....whiich I love by the way.

I am discovering several things in my stumbling alongs here. One...I don't check the ppms of my soil.....in BRAND NEW FFOF soil I tested ppms one day and the runoff was something like 800. That was with RO water btw so that was ALL from the soil itself.
I DO check my ph both going in and coming out btw and good for you to check it as well.

I am discovering that my soil runs out of nutes VERY QUICKLY and am wondering if its possible you NEED TO FERT MORE. After a discussion with my hydro guy I have begun watering with nutes solutions two weeks after transplanting into fresh soil and water with a nute solution of 900ppm/ph 6.5-6.6 EVERY SINGLE WATERING. After about 6 waterings or so I notice my runoff ph start to rise and then I'll either flush or water with plain water until I straighten the ph runoff back out and then begin watering with my nutes again.

I am right in the middle of trying this fert schedule on my soil plants so can't say whether successful or not as of yet.......but I AM noticing less yellow bottom leaves that I tend to get now then before and I found that MORE fertilizing (observing carefully of course) has SO FAR led to healthier soil plants at our place.

The other thought is a rootbound issue.....yes you have big pots but you also have big plants. Are there any roots growing out the bottom of your pots?

[veggii]

hey allisin I dont know much but i read your post and hunger was first thing popped into my head. Lowes has some 7 gallon pot for $7 ea. I have also heard of some guys using like a teaspoon of fish emulsion (veg) too slow the nitrogen depletion,that sounds kinda risky tho. I would recomend bigger pot & food. and WH & stinky are the ones to listen too they are very EXP. me noobi lol good luck
ps: can you trans them into the ground?

[Weedhound]

I also notice your lighting is a bit far away.....you may want to move that closer to prevent stretching......:S2:

[Weedhound]

Lastly.....if you're not using a zyme product then start asap (I like Cannazym). I add them to my soil nutes at the same rate I would add them to my hydro nutes......5ml/gallon every watering.

And if you REALLY want to go root crazy add Rhizotonic to your regimen. It DOES raise your ph initially though so if you use it check and adjust your ph carefully..

Ok...I'm really done now. :D

[allrollsin21]

Veggii from one Noob to another, i will take advice from anyone, so thanks. And it seems you were on to something, because the Hound feels the same, and i do now as well. So thanks.

Hound thanks for taking a gander at my issues. It has been really frustrating seeing the same problem in two different grows.
I'll admit i am a bit gun shy with the nutes. In the beginning i burned many a lady and still have those impressions ingrained deep within.
I do now believe i am underfeeding.

The plants look good as long as I look at the tops of them!

I just returned from a few days in Yosemite, first time there, and was so very happy to read your advice upon returning.

Another reason i would have to agree with your assessment is because of the heat around here. It is hot enough that i often need to water every second day. So the plants were sometimes being watered 2-3 times in a row before getting another feeding. I was trying to feed only once a week. So all the data is computing and adding up to not enough food.

WH if you happen to have read this i wonder how you use the hydroplex in soil? I know your hydro feed schedule in and out, but do you follow the bottles directions for soil, or do you do your hydro technique and substitute half your bloom with hydroplex? Just wondering...
Thanks again fair lady.

[foxysox]

Big plant, small pot. Soil chemistry fuckulated. Step up to 5 gal.

[the image reaper]

hi, Foxy ! long time, no see, cutie :jointsmile:

[Weedhound]

I absolutely LOVE to learn new words like "fuckulated." That one's a keeper. :D

AR I do use hydroplex in my soil plants after 3 weeks of 12/12....regular Pro Bloom until then. I mix my nutes up just as I would for hydro (and do use botanincare hydro nutes btw but would use soil ones if I wasn't doing any hydro simply because it probably assists ph stabilization and such) but adjust the ph to 6.5-6.6 instead of hydro ph and use the nutes as needed determnined by my schedule. When my soil plants are 4 weeks in 12/12 then I split the bloom nutes/hydroplex 50/50 just as I do for my hydro ones.

[Rusty Trichome]

Looks to me like a bit of overwatering. How much do you water, and when do you water? Do you let the soil dry-out between waterings/feedings? Do you get a lot of run-off when watering? If so, you might be flushing-out the nutes.
-or-
It could be rootbound. Any roots sneaking out of the bottom of the pot?

[allrollsin21]

Thanks for the hydroplex advice WH. I will try this.

Rusty i do water often. It is consistently 90-100+ where i am at, and they are definitely dry when i water them...sometimes too dry :(....hard to keep up.

As for flushing out the nutes i would say a definite possibility. That combined with not feeding them enough = plants that look like mine.

Overall i am not too disgruntled over the whole thing because i still have a few 6 ft.ers that are looking healthy and starting to crystal up.

Foxysox i as well want to thank you for sharing "fuckulated" with me. very descriptive. As for rootbound, the plants are about 3 ft tall in 4 gallon pots, and some having the same issues are in 20 Gallon bags. I appreciate the sharing of your thoughts.

[Rusty Trichome]

If your 'old' soil isn't holding water very well, you can add 1/4 tsp of liquid dishsoap per gallon of water. It acts as a surfactant. (breaks water surface tention, allowing for better absorbtion by the soil)
A single application (make sure water penetrates deep in the pot) is usually all that is necessary. If you do this, do not use a soap with any anti-bacterial ingredients. It will kill all the bio-activity in the soil. Wouldn't do this more than once a month, either.
Allowing the soil to dry between waterings is important, and sometimes there's a fine line between "it can wait till tomorrow", and "shit, should have watered last night"
Would err on the side of no root-rot, and let them go till the next morning. They won't usually die overnight if a tad droopy, (thirsty) but root-rot is a bitch to correct.

Good luck...Rusty

[Weedhound]

You know Rusty I'm starting to have some issues along that line as well.......and it DID happen when I increased my watering schedule. I was wondering my self if perhaps the roots at the bottom weren't drying out enough so your info is helpful to me. Thanks! :)

[stinkyattic]

Once the ratio of plant and root mass to soil mass is too large, you have problems that can only be solved by repotting- maintaining consistent soil chemistry under those conditions is nearly impossible, and that little media for that large plant is going to give you wild fluctuations depending on the moisture and fert content of the medium at that moment.
Even a plant in a large grow bag may surprise you with its roots. And if the plant has been in the same pot or bag for more than 5 weeks, expect SIGNIFICANT changes in soil chemistry due to the plant using up the lime. The calcium def on your low leaves is a hint...

[allrollsin21]

OK rusty, thanks for the tip. I will give it a shot. They are drying out very quickly.

It would make sense for me to have put new shoes on the ladies a week ago to give them some new soil to finish in...i did not. Strangely the Soil PH has remained relatively stable this whole time. I Have Been Checking:thumbsup: (thanks for the tip Stinky). By relatively stable i mean it has been in the 6.5-7 range throughout.

I would never suggest this as a means of fixing a problem, especially with my burning history... MORE FOOD!! I get nervous just typing it...

[Weedhound]

Actually Rusty's advice was right on for me too.....I was watering a LOT to make sure I could check runoff and I think he's correct.....watering the good stuff right through. Now I'm trying smaller amounts and just not freak out about runoff.....but make sure what goes IN is ph'd to 6.5.

[lunarose]

Hi, I agree they look root bound how tall are they? I grow outside in s. cali too and I feed mine 1/2 strength FF every other watering.

[allrollsin21]

Hi Luna. The plants are mostly about 2.5-3 ft tall, short considering how long they have been growing. I believe, thanks to all the kind folks who chimed in on this thread, that my problems are a result of not enough transplanting, and not enough food.
They are now on a strict nute binge, every watering, and don't seem like it has been too much, but time will tell. I am hesitant to transplant with only a few-three weeks left. Another learning experience:thumbsup: