McToker's 1st Grow with CFL

[McToker]

This is our, the wife and I, first serious attempt at growing. We started out by using some basic info we found on the net. After we had started and found this site, we realized that the info we were using was incomplete, very dated or a bit of both.

The first sprout showed up on July 8. This is the one that we call the freak of nature due to the huge leaves. The rest sprouted within 10 days of the first one. All are bagseed donated by an old freind.

The cabinet, if I can actually call it that, is just an angle iron frame and sheets of cardboard painted flat white.

We started off using two 4 foot flouros but switched to CFL's after finding this site.

The 4-lamp fixture is just a shop light with some "Y" adapters. The 8-lamp unit is a 4- light bath vanity fixture with "Y"'s.

Bulbs are 26/100 watt "Daylight" CFL's rated at 6500k. For flowering we'll switch to 26/100 CFL's rated at 2700k.

Soil is Miracle Grow. With the the exception of molasses being added to one plant, starting yesterday, no nutes have been used, yet.

We also topped the front center plant yesterday.

This grow is definitely a learning experience for us. I only wish we had found this site earlier.

Water runs first through a water softener and then an R/O machine.

We'll be moving everything into a Homebox S later today. The "Brown's" site says it will be here today. We can't wait. The aroma, while wonderful, is getting a bit strong. We already built a carbon scrubber for the new digs.

Well, I thought I was going to be able to add some photos but, I guess, not yet. I'll add them when I'm able to.

McT

[SunnyD]

Sounds like a nice first time grow to me!!!

The only thing I'm curious about is the miracle grow you're using for those babies...I've read in a couple threads here that miracle grow is just a bit strong for babies...have you had any problems??? If not then that should be a good sign that you can bump up the heavy nutes in flower!! YAAAAAY

I could be wrong though...wait til an expert stops by

Hope everything works out!
Stay Sunny

P.S. - I'm subscribing to this one :thumbsup:

[McToker]

I read the same thing about the MG............. after we started using it.:(

But, they are all looking good (knock wood).:D

They were all germinated using Jiffy Greenhouse pellets that were later transplanted into beer cups (the red plastic kind) with MG.

We're just hoping that the freak turns out to be female. We started LST on her (being optomistic) about a week ago.

[BeFree]

Sounds goood. =D

Are you using any perlite? Because I started 4 beans in MG seed starter and perlite and they did just fine until they outgrew the beer cups.

On to recycled 3 litre Dr. Pepper bottles! wooo

tip: try rounding up some pictures and making a photobucket log for us to check out until you hit that 50 post mark so you can attach images. I'm sure a few of us noobs on our first grow would like to check it out. *nudge nudge*


Be Safe:jointsmile:

[McToker]

I'd forgotten all about my photobucket account. Let's see if this works.

Group photo
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v12/sandracer/group1-1.jpg

The freak:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v12/sandracer/freak1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v12/sandracer/freak2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v12/sandracer/freak3.jpg

[McToker]

Here's a better shot of the lights. The 4 ft. flouro will disappear later today.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v12/sandracer/lights.jpg

and a shot of the scrubber. It's an adaptation of Treetops' filter which was based on one by Bodom Children Of . I could only find 6 inch caps and such so........... I went with that. The filter material is an activated charcoal pre-filter for Honeywell air purifier ($9 at HD).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v12/sandracer/scrubber.jpg

[McToker]

BeFree ~ No perlite. Just MG.

[SunnyD]

Nice keep pinch-bending them to keep them low if that's what you're going for, they look puuuurdy as of right now! Way to go!

[McToker]

Thanks Sunny D. We think they're purdy, too.:)

As for topping and LST, it's not so much that we're trying to keep them low as just experimenting and trying to learn a new craft. We're also playing with different heights for the lights, too.

The new tent will be 63 inches tall so I'm not sure how much height will be an issue.

Right now I'm sitting in the kitchen waiting for the tent to be delivered.:D

Nutes are on their way. Should be here in a couple days.

[McToker]

The Homebox showed up. YEAH!!!

We got it set up and the babies are tucked in.

They say that one person can set one of these up but, I'm sure glad the wife was here to help, especially when it came to working inside. She's only 5' tall and could stand up where I had to stoop.

It turned out that our DIY scrubber was too long to fit inside the tent by the time we connected to the ducting. So, we just cut it down, shorter. It is still 6 inch diameter but the canister was cut down from 16 inches long to 8 inches. With the large diameter, I think it will still leave plenty of surface area. And now, I've got enough filter material left over to replace it when needed. By tomorrow, I'll have a pretty good idea how well it is scrubbing.

[TheMetal1]

Congrats on your new adventure. I'll be stopping back by. CFL's are pretty cooooooool :thumbsup:

and:

The Homebox showed up. YEAH!!!

hahaha... seriously one of the best things about growing. GETTING NEW SHIT!!!!!!!

[McToker]

Here's a better pic of the DIY scrubber. This was after we made it shorter.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v12/sandracer/scrubber2.jpg

and.............. everyone in their place in their new digs.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v12/sandracer/tent.jpg

[SunnyD]

PURDY!

Lookin fine

[GreenLeaf420]

Nice Clean Set-up you have their!!! Very Happy plants you have the color is wonderful beautiful tight Nodes!!!What is the way you added those PICS it reminds me of another site? I like the way you have those CFL's Set Up Were did you pick up the 8 unit one HD? That is a nice piece how much was that? Great for Supp and side light... Good Luck GL1

[McToker]

The pics are hosted on Photobucket and linked to the post.

Yup, the 8-light unit is a 4-socket vanity light from HD for $8. I just added 4 "Y" sockets ($1.59 at Wally World) to it to double the bulbs. Each socket was originally set to handle 60 watts so, with 2 26-watt CFL bulbs in each socket, I'm still at only 52 watts per socket.

[McToker]

Had some heat/ventilation issues to deal with. The 2 biggest plants were showing signs of heat stress. Apparently 90 CFM on the exhaust fan was just not enough. We ditched the 4 inch tubing in favor of 6 inch and put on a bigger fan. The only thing I could find was a 500 CFM unit. We just finished getting everything changed out. Yesterday, the temps were ranging from 86 to 89.7 F and I had to move the lights a good 8 inches above the plants to get that. We even unscrewed every other bulb on the 8-bulb unit.

So far.......... knock wood........... temp is holding at 81.0 with 47% humidity.

We have central A/C and keep the house at 78 degrees. I'll be happy if we can keep the tent in the area of 81 with all the lights on.

The 2 biggest plants have been in MG for a month now, so I figured the nutes were about used up. Since we are still waiting for our new nutes to arrive, I gave them a 1/4 dose of Fish emulsion to hold them over.

Moving the lights up last night did cause some stem stretch on the biggest plant. It gained 6 inches since yesterday.

[McToker]

Well, when something is too good to be true........... it probably is.

One of us inadvertantly left the thermometer set on the temp for "outside" the box.

Right now it's sitting at 85 degrees. We can still live with that but I cranked the A/C down a bit anyway.

[anbesol]

Looking Good!

[McToker]

Thanks Anbesol.

They seem to have started recovering from the higher temps. The yellowing on the newer growth of the larger plants seems to be receeding.

Temp is holding about 84 degrees even after the wife bumped the A/C back up to 78.

[McToker]

There was just a trace of smell making it through the filter. Picked up some dryer sheets (Bounce with Febreeze). I threw a sheet on the filter and the problem was taken care of within 30 minutes. The wife is happy now. And........ when the wife is happy, I'm happy.;):);)

Temps are holding at 84 to 86 with humidity at 40 to 42%.

[grow1964]

Nice setup. you did your homework for sure.

[McToker]

Thanks grow........ and I'm still doing homework.:)

Now, I'm trying to find a different mix to use on the next transplant. I started out with MG because it was easy to find and I didn't know any better at the time.

I've searched all over town for an unfertilized potting soil with no luck. I'm figuring that the ferts, especially in the big pots are about used up and, based on Stinkyattic's recommendations, we'll be going to Pure Blend Pro Grow and Pure Blend Pro Bloom for Soil. UPS says they'll be here tomorrow.

But, I know I'll be needing to transplant to bigger pots soon and am at a loss finding anything unfertilized.

Anyone have a recommendation on something I can mix up or, as a last resort, order online?

[hydrocannabis]

mctoker mctoker. UR shit looks great my brotha.:thumbsup:

[McToker]

mctoker mctoker. UR shit looks great my brotha.:thumbsup:

Thank you.......... Thank you very much.

Nutes got here today. Feels like we're rollin' now.

Been checking for preflowers. Nothing yet. I know it's a bit early, still vegging, but I can't help looking anyway.:D The babies range from 3 to 4 1/2 weeks since sprouting. Starting to get some alternating nodes on the freak.

[joedirte]

hey nice first frow bro. good luck with your flowers!:hippy:

[anbesol]

Hey MC. Can I make a Slight Suggestion? You should really add about 6-10 more cfl's for your grow. If you can. Pick up the book Buds For Less. you will probably have small fluffy buds from just that small amount of light. Good Luck!

[McToker]

joedirt ~ Thanks man.

anbesol ~ 6 to 10 more? I don't know that I could fit too many more in there. There are 12 bulbs in there now. Even if I replaced the 4-light unit with a second 8-light one, that would only add 4 bulbs. Buds for Less, I'll check into it. Thanks.

The wife and I never imagined that there would be so much to learn when we started this adventure. We really have to tip our caps to the wonderful folks that this site has pulled together. It makes for quite a pool of knowledge to draw from.:):):)

[McToker]

Hey MC. Can I make a Slight Suggestion? You should really add about 6-10 more cfl's for your grow. If you can. Pick up the book Buds For Less. you will probably have small fluffy buds from just that small amount of light. Good Luck!

Does the homework ever end?

Been reading......... a lot. Cervantes' book has been a great help.

I'm still trying to keep this "relatively" inexpensive. With that in mind, I calculate that I need to shoot for about 27,560 Lumens, or more, to get a respectable volume at harvest. My Homebox is 6.89 sq. feet.

I found a good deal on a 150 watt HPS putting out 16,000 Lumens. If I run that along side my 8-bulb fixture (12,800 lumens) it would give me 28,800 lumens.

I'm just wondering if the heat will still be manageable. I looked at running a couple 125 watt CFL's but the cost is double the price of the HPS with less output. Just seems like the HPS is more bang for the buck.

Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks,

McT

[McToker]

Well........ even though I found a good deal on an HPS light, I was still concerned about the extra heat it might generate so, I looked at vented hoods and cooltubes. That basically doubled the price of the light.

While digging for info on hoods and cooltubes, I stumbled across a photo that Opie Yutts had posted of his setup. Then, it struck me. I could add enough CFL's to reach my goal of 4,000 to 5,000 lumens per square foot for flowering.

The result is Frankenlight. Since the babies are still vegging, I'm only running 20 6500k bulbs. For flowering it will hold 22 2700k bulbs for a total of 35,200 lumens or roughly 5100 lumens per square foot.

Anbesol ~ Thanks for pointing out the lighting deficiency. I wasn't able to find the book you mentioned but I did pick up Cervantes' book. The stickies in the lighting section were a big help, too.

Opie Yutts ~ Thanks for the idea I needed to gain enough bulbs. Our original plan was to do this with all CFL's and, now, we're staying on course.

In the photos we haven't put all the bulbs in yet, but y'all should get the idea.

[Shovelhandle]

you know, a little box fan can cool a pretty good size hps. I used that for 400w in a meter² area. The ambient was generally 65-70ºF. At the canopy the temp would be 80º-85º. Just an observation. good luck with the CFLs though. They can do the trick too. You know the math now.

[McToker]

you know, a little box fan can cool a pretty good size hps. I used that for 400w in a meter² area. The ambient was generally 65-70ºF. At the canopy the temp would be 80º-85º. Just an observation. good luck with the CFLs though. They can do the trick too. You know the math now.

We won't see that kind of ambient temp until December or so. We bumped the house A/C down to 76 F and run a 7 inch clip fan inside the box and have a regular box fan about 8 feet away directing more air toward the box. Right now, canopy temp is hovering around 85. We also have a 500 CFM duct fan hauling the warm air out of the top of the box.

We'll see what kind of results we get from this grow and plan to start a second grow after Xmas when we have cooler ambient temps.

[McToker]

I sure hope we can switch to flower soon and start culling out any males. We're running out of room in there!

The one plant that we topped is showing alternating nodes as are a couple branches on the freak (not on the main cola). Many of the plants show very tiny specs that could be the beginnings of preflowers but, even with a jeweler's loupe, I still can't tell, yet.

The oldest plant is 6 weeks old, today. The others range from 1 day to 1 1/2 weeks younger.

With the new light, the temp peaked at 88 during the night but the babies seem to love it.

[McToker]

I culled out two plants today. One was showing both male and female flowers. I don't know if it's a hermie or intrasexual. The other was showing wierd light brown sections on the leaf surface. I thought this might be because it was the first plant directly in front of a fixed fan.

Both plants were moved outdoors. We'll continue to give them nutes and see what happens. Actually, I hope they do well. We could use more seeds, at the very least.

Now that we have a bit more room, we removed the fixed clip-fan and replaced it with a desktop tower oscillating fan (the kind with two squirrel cage fans in it).

A couple of the remaining plants have little nubs at the nodes but still too early to tell if male or female.

[BeFree]

Wow, looking really good.:thumbsup:

and 'Frankenlight' clicked my inspiration light on. Really appreciate that as well.:hippy:

I've got a indoor growing log with my trinode plant and my little FIM/LST monster if you wanna check it out.:cool:

Have a good one and Be Safe, bud.:jointsmile:

[McToker]

The first pic is the one with the brown spots. The second is the bi. Not a great pic but the best I could get. On a couple nodes, male and female preflowers are clustered together.

[McToker]

Thanks BeFree.

Glad to be of help.

I'll be checking out your log.

[hydrocannabis]

looks better than my other flowering plant.but its still flowering ok. so will have to wate and see.

and the ones in the pic all of em they look great.

[McToker]

Thanks hydro. I think the one was just getting beat up by the constant breeze on it. Anyway, needed the room to be able to put the oscillating fan in the box.

We'll probably have to move a few more outside, as well. I figure we'll only have room to flower 3 to 4 in the box, at best.

[weedheaduknow]

Very good 1st grow!! You give me hope, as I plan on growing for the first time and with the use of cfl's. Only questions i have right now is what are all of the nutes you are using and are you even checkin the ph of your water and soil??

[McToker]

I went with what stinkyattic recommended in her basic "stickie", Botanicare Pure Blend Pro Grow and Pro Bloom with an occasional dallop of Sweet and Molasses.

http://boards.cannabis.com/basic-growing/127522-simple-noob-instructions-growin-da-dankness.html

Water is from our R/O machine so it's a neutral 7.0 to start. Soil Ph has been holding about 6.5 to 7. Although, I haven't checked it in a while.

Good luck with your grow. I'm sure you'll learn a lot. Seems like I learn something new every day. Usually it's what mistakes I've made.;)

[BeFree]

Thanks for stoppin' in my log. :jointsmile: And yeah, it was a slight bummer.
But, it's happens and it's something you got to get used to. (slaying the pollen maker), that is. ;)

Are the brown spots spreading? Or is it clearing up?

And the one with both sexed flowers? What are ya gona do with that one? :stoned:

Sorry about the questions. Hehe, wake 'n :bigsmoke:

Have a good one McT. :jointsmile:

[McToker]

BeFree ~ I think the brown spots were just damage from getting beat up by the fixed fan I had in tent. That plant was directly in front of the fan. It is now living happily in the back yard. If anything, the spots are worse but now it is getting beat up by the wind.:)

The hermie is in the yard, too. He/she is sprouting lots of bud sites. I needed to clear out some space in the tent anyway as things were getting pretty crowded. If the hermie pollinates itself and the one with the spots, then I'll have some more seeds for the next grow.

So far they are both enjoying the "real" sunlight even though it's 110 degrees outside.:D

When life deals you lemons................ make lemonade!;)

[BeFree]

Ah, okay. Thanks for the informative post. =)
Must be why a couple fan leaves in my grow box are showing some brown damage spots because I get stoned, let the lights go out and forget about the 24/0 fan in there. Hehe.

I'd like the pollen bud the trinode and get a batch of seeds with the chance of the same minor deformity. But I gots nowhere to finish him at.

No one talks about the sugar additives we put in the 'said' lemonade.:hippy:

Be Good McT.

:jointsmile:

[killa12345]

Nice log McToker....the plants look great and the CFL light contraption you made looks awesome.....good luck....the grow looks to produce some dank.....i wish you sucess in the near future...

[McToker]

Thanks killa.

Just got done feeding the babies. It would appear that we have met the criteria for moving on to the flowering phase:

1) Most of the plants are at 1/2 the height we would like to end up with.

2) Lots of branches have alternating nodes.

3) Preflowers are starting to show. Second oldest sprout is a GIRL!!!:dance::clap::rastabanna:

I'll probably let them veg for a few more days until my new light hanger arrives. That way we can change out the bulbs and install the new hanger at the same time. Besides, it may give a few more plants a chance to show their sex.

[weedheaduknow]

thanks for the info, i hope your grow goes well and please enjoy that shit!!

[anbesol]

YEAH! THATS GREAT LOOKIN'

If you go into flower with CFL's....haha, add more light. like more light near the bottom. I used a vanity light at the base of my plants for more light. it plumped the lowers up. I just finished harvesting. I know your trying to keep it relativly cheap, but even if you add some 60 watts or 20 watts at the bottom would be beneficial.

However, You have such a large homebox, you should be running a 400 watt. you can. If i had the space, and extra cash for electric bill ($90 a month by my est.) i would.

[McToker]

Thanks anbesol.

Any side or bottom lights will have to wait until I can thin out the number of plants to make room. We were going to wait to start flowering but now plan to make the switch today.

Today's plant inspection may cull out a couple more plants. We'll see. We could certainly use the room. Most of the babies are getting quite bushy.:)

Ultimately, I'd like to get it down to 3 or 4 plants. Time will tell.

[McToker]

Weird:( It would seem that an entire post from yesterday has vanished.

Oh well.......... Maybe tomorrow it will magically reappear.

In any case, here's a recap.

Couldn't wait any longer. Plants were getting too tall. We changed out to the 2700k bulbs and put the timer on 12/12. We already had to raise the lights twice in the last 24 hours. I don't know if it's the new spectrum or the 12 hours of dark or both, but the plants are loving it.

An empty long-neck box made for safe storage of the bulbs.

One plant showed severe signs of either heat stress or salt build up. I think it was salt so we flushed it using our handy dandy flush bucket.

[BeFree]

Lookin' good, just like all the other times I stop by.:jointsmile:

You and the wife must have amazing green thumbs. Hehe. Also, the stretching completely normal when you start to flower. That means they are making the room for the buds to full out on the stems instead of getting too thick and not letting air flow. And you know that no air flow and moisture = mold. And bud rot is a true catastrophe. Take it easy McT.

Be Good:jointsmile:

Good vibes headed your way. :hippy:

[italian04]

i have a couple 400w hps bulbs and two air cooled hoods for sale if u want them.

[McToker]

Thanks for the kind words BeFree. As for the "green thumb", time will tell. We've just been figuring this out as we go. The folks on this site have really helped. We're finally at a stage where we are feeling really good about this grow and that would not have been possible without all the great info, advice and support available here.

Italian04 ~ Thanks but we'll stick it out with the CFL's.

Both of us are just amazed at how far we've gotten with non-specialty lighting. Neither of us would have thought it possible. We realize that by running an HPS we could get more yeild but we'll be happy just to get a nice little stash.

We don't require much. We're happy with one or two pinners a day. I guess that's one of the benefits of going without for long periods of time. The last 1/8 oz. bag lasted us about a month. I'm sure that will change as we build up our tolerances.;):jointsmile:;)

[hydrocannabis]

they R looking great.

[McToker]

Thanks hydro......

We got the other 3 gallon pot flushed today. No more plants have shown any preflowers yet. Hoping to have them sexed and dwindled down in another week. Next time we won't start so many beans.;)

Lights on temps are staying in the 78 to 81F range with lights off temps running 73 to 75F with just the exhaust fan running.

The pair banished outdoors are hanging in there.

We looked at Rubbermaid containers at Wally World today. We're toying with the idea of going that route for a mother plant so we can do some cloning in the future. It seems like a container the right size for one plant should be fairly easy to find a spot for.

So........... in case you see me slinking around the house with the stealth-o-meter, you'll know why.:D

We've got the kids and rest of the clan showing up for the Holidays so it has to be really sneaky like.

[McToker]

Couldn't wait any longer. Had to banish two more plants outdoors. They were seriously competing for room and light. Especially the freak. It's just busting out all over with new growth and really deserved to be in the center where light could easily reach all the way around the plant. It's like fighting through a jungle just to get a look at the nodes on the main cola.

So our indoor grow is down to five plants and another four are outdoors.

I guess we'll have our own little friendly competition to see whether indoors or outdoors ranks higher in production and potency.:jointsmile:

[Jerry Garcia 2007]

Wow very nice plants but, with 22 CFL's you can't go wrong :)

Nice work

JG

[McToker]

Thanks JG.

I couldn't resist snapping a couple pics of the freak before the lights go out for the night.

Yup,I know the leaf tips are curled. It's been doing that for weeks. For the most part they eventually straighten out.

[anbesol]

Thanks JG.

I couldn't resist snapping a couple pics of the freak before the lights go out for the night.

Yup,I know the leaf tips are curled. It's been doing that for weeks. For the most part they eventually straighten out.

Make sure you get side lighting on your plants, your cfl's wont penetrate far down the canopy, They look Great!

[McToker]

Thanks for the compliment and the reminder anbesol. I was meaning to add the side lighting now that we have a bit more room.

Just stuck a couple more CFL's in using some old shop clamp lights. All I had were 6500k lights but figure they're better than nothing until I can pick up some more 2700k's.

The freak got a little bit of lamp burn this morning. Nothing too bad. When the lights kicked on this morning the canopy was about two inches higher than it was last night.

Had to tie down a couple colas to keep the freak even remotely in line with the other plants. All of the smaller pots are already propped up on stacked pieces of 2x4's to even get the canopy close to being even.

My new light hanger should be here tomorrow. That ought to make things a tad bit easer.

[anbesol]

its ok if a bit of the leafs burn from the light. the lumens it absords are more crucial. but if bud gets burned thats a problem and can slow down more bud growth. but burnt leaf will not slow anything down. Amazon.com: Marijuana Buds for Less: Grow 8 oz. of Bud for Less Than $100: SeeMoreBuds: Books (http://www.amazon.com/Marijuana-Buds-Less-Grow-Than/dp/0932551874/ref=pd_bbs_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1219960770&sr=8-2)

[McToker]

Anbesol ~ I did a search on that title and found quite a few sections of the book and related material on-line. Made for some interesting reading. My wife is convinced that the more I learn about this the more new toys I need to buy.

That brings me to the reason for this post. The little woman gave the go-ahead to get an HPS light. I know, this was supposed to be a CFL grow. Well, it was a CFL veg......

We'll keep the CFL set-up for vegging but we are looking forward to more production from flowering with an HPS.

I'm looking at a 400 watt HPS/Cooltube Combo at HTG Supply. One question is: Is it worth the extra $40 for a digital ballast?

I figure I may need another fan to cool this light considering the problems I had with bends in the duct tubing.

http://boards.cannabis.com/indoor-growing/160899-why-do-temps-go-up-night.html

As you can see, getting rid of the duct tubing with it's bends took care of my cooling issues. Right now I'm running a 500 CFM 8 inch in-line "booster" fan. I have another 4 inch booster fan out in the shop. I'm wondering if I were to set it up like this if I could spare myself the expense of another fan.

Carbon filter - 4 inch fan - flex duct - cooltube - flex duct - 8 inch fan

On another note; I crunched the numbers using Miss Stinkyattic's formula from one of her stickies and found that running the HPS is actually about $5 a month cheaper on the electric bill than my current set-up.

[McToker]

I figure I may need another fan to cool this light considering the problems I had with bends in the duct tubing.

http://boards.cannabis.com/indoor-growing/160899-why-do-temps-go-up-night.html

As you can see, getting rid of the duct tubing with it's bends took care of my cooling issues. Right now I'm running a 500 CFM 8 inch in-line "booster" fan. I have another 4 inch booster fan out in the shop. I'm wondering if I were to set it up like this if I could spare myself the expense of another fan.

Carbon filter - 4 inch fan - flex duct - cooltube - flex duct - 8 inch fan

You can disregard this part. I just went back and re-read Rhizome's stickie on grow room set-up. I'll just bite the bullit and order a proper fan.

[McToker]

The pic is of the hermie that we culled out and banished to the back yard. Sorry about the photo quality. Like most children, it just wouldn't sit still.:D

Beautiful pistels busting out all over!:) Looks like we'll get some bud and hopefully some seeds out of this venture after all.

The indoor plants are on Day 6 of flowering. Still no more signs of sex yet.

Tied down even more branches of the freak today.

We could use a bit of input on new lighting. We know a 250 watt HPS would be adequate for our area, just over 2 1/2 feet by 2 1/2 feet, with about 4000 to 4700 lumens per square foot depending on the bulb. But, would a 400 watter with about 7200 lumens work better for us.

For either we would be using an air-cooled hood or cooltube. Our biggest concerns with the 400 watt light is the distance we would be able to keep it from the plants and the extra heat. Our Homebox is only 63 inches tall.

[McToker]

Here's a little better pic of the hermie out in the yard.

Wish the ones indoors were showing flowers like that.

[McToker]

We woke up to a lot more preflowering activity on the indoor plants this morning. The one we knew was a female is showing even more pistels. WooHoo!!!:D

Three others show lots of preflower activity but for the life of me I just can't pin it down to male or female yet. Even with a 20x jeweler's loupe, I just can't tell. Guess we'll have to wait another day or two and see if the pistels show up.

I tried to snap a couple pics, up close, but the macro on my camera sucks.:(

On another note, after countless hours of reading through the forum, researching on-line and much cussing and discussing, we've put any plans for an HPS light on indefinite hold. By the time we get the setup we want and then upgrade the ventilation, it just doesn't seem all that enticing. At least we narrowed it down for the future. We only found one air cooled hood that would fit in our Homebox S. That's the Sunleaves Arctic sun. Even then, by the time we add 6 inch flex tubing off each end, it's a tight squeeze.

That all may just have to wait until I can figure out how to add a stealth grow room in my shop. I can't remember which forum member said it but this growing part is certainly addictive. Perhaps even more so than partaking.;)

[Weezard]

:)
We woke up to a lot more preflowering activity on the indoor plants this morning. The one we knew was a female is showing even more pistels. WooHoo!!!:D

Three others show lots of preflower activity but for the life of me I just can't pin it down to male or female yet. Even with a 20x jeweler's loupe, I just can't tell. Guess we'll have to wait another day or two and see if the pistels show up.

I tried to snap a couple pics, up close, but the macro on my camera sucks.:(

On another note, after countless hours of reading through the forum, researching on-line and much cussing and discussing, we've put any plans for an HPS light on indefinite hold. By the time we get the setup we want and then upgrade the ventilation, it just doesn't seem all that enticing. At least we narrowed it down for the future. We only found one air cooled hood that would fit in our Homebox S. That's the Sunleaves Arctic sun. Even then, by the time we add 6 inch flex tubing off each end, it's a tight squeeze.

That all may just have to wait until I can figure out how to add a stealth grow room in my shop. I can't remember which forum member said it but this growing part is certainly addictive. Perhaps even more so than partaking.;)

Aloha fellow codgers:)

Got :twocents::twocents:,for you. (inflation), :D
For bulk, heat, size, and results you might want to look at LEDs. for flowering.
The Procyon, for example, uses 125W and it works as well, if not better than a 400W HPS
Lots of info under "indoor-lighting.
Snstealth has three threads in the grow logs that show what LEDs can do.
They are still a bit pricey but will amortize in time depending on what you pay per KWH.
The initial retail cost is the only reason I don't own several of them.
The excellent results, lack of heat and safety was so irresistable that I opted to build my own.
If you "speak solder", take a look at "the perfect growlight thread" started by Physicsnole.

Been enjoying your posts.:)
Mahalo,
Weezard

[McToker]

Thanks Weezard.

Trust me; I read all of Snstealth's logs and the perfect grow light thread. Took me the better part of two days with all the side links.

I came to the same conclusion. The Procyon seems to be the way to go. I even bounced the argument off my better half, telling her that by the time we get a good digital ballast, an air cooled hood, a good bulb and then spend about that same amount to upgrade our ventilation system to accomodate the extra heat, we'd be darn close to the price of the Procyon.

Then, she had to go and spoil it by asking the price of the Procyon.:( The side of my head still hurts.

I initially thought going to an HPS would be fairly cheap when I saw some of the enticing prices on several vendor's websites. But, the more I looked into it, those "bargain priced" units didn't seem so hot. At least they were not what I was after for my situation.

[Weezard]

Thanks Weezard.

Trust me; I read all of Snstealth's logs and the perfect grow light thread. Took me the better part of two days with all the side links.

I came to the same conclusion. The Procyon seems to be the way to go. I even bounced the argument off my better half, telling her that by the time we get a good digital ballast, an air cooled hood, a good bulb and then spend about that same amount to upgrade our ventilation system to accomodate the extra heat, we'd be darn close to the price of the Procyon.

Then, she had to go and spoil it by asking the price of the Procyon.:( The side of my head still hurts.

I initially thought going to an HPS would be fairly cheap when I saw some of the enticing prices on several vendor's websites. But, the more I looked into it, those "bargain priced" units didn't seem so hot. At least they were not what I was after for my situation.

From the rest of your thread that you've done plenty of homework:)

My wife wouldn't bat an eye. She loves to buy stuff.:D
It was the folks from Anti-social In-security that yanked my chain.:(

And you've seen the builds.
Wish I could say "just DIY".:thumbsup:

I did.
The concept was just too :cool: not to play with.
Well, that might generate odd pains in the other side of your head.:D
Because, when the dust settled, it cost me almost $400 to DIY!:upsidedow

Not too unhappy about that though.
Here on the Island the electricity is mostly generated by burning oil. We pay one of the highest rates in the country and I don't see that getting any better in the future.
So, between that, and the cost of replacing HPS/MH/ bulbs every season, or the CFLs every 2 seasons...
Like you quoted, the growng can get to be more elevating than the smoking. So, god willing and the creek don't rise, I'll be way ahead of the money part in less than 3 years.
Also, getting better results than the Procyon grows, for less wattage was the deal maker for me.:):)

Sexing happened in 2 days of 12/12.
Got bigger, tighter buds, sooner than Snstealths grow, etc.

BUT, (and that's a big but.), I also switched to hydro for my second grow under LEDs and Whiskey Tango/ Dough Boy still grow in dirt.
When they switch to Hydro, or GITC, we'll have a grow-off.:D

65 is the new 70:D
Weezard

[McToker]

I'm just about to go dive into the DIY thread. Perhaps, if I'm lucky and if I bob and weave, she might not notice so much if I nickel and dime it. But anyway, I'll do some more reading and, yes, I do "speak solder".:)

Oh....... and Aloha. Our youngest is at Pearl. He's constantly griping about the prices of just about everything over there.

[McToker]

It's a sad day in McTokerville. We had to pull three males out of the Homebox tonight. The real heartbreaker is that one of them was the freak. I guess I was just in denial. I've been checking them all day long going back and forth from the illustrations in Cervantes' book to "What sex is it?" posts on the forum looking for any sign that I could be wrong.

But, there is some good news! The last to show any signs....... IS A GIRL!!! That still leaves us two girls indoors. There is also the bloomin' hermie outside along with three more unknowns.

Well, it does open up space in the Homebox so the girls don't have to compete for light.

Yup, you guessed it........ my glass is always half full.:D

[McToker]

Oh....... I almost forgot. Must be a senior moment. I found about a half dozen leaves that had apparently fallen off of the older female. I can't tell for sure but I'm guessing they were from low and inner branches. Doesn't look like they came from the canopy. The fallen leaves were still green.

I checked her with the moisture meter and she was dry. Somehow she must have missed the feeding yesterday. She took about 2 quarts before water started dribbling out the bottom.

HaHa. I'm hoping she was just 2 quarts low.:D

And before you ask; No, I'm not thaaaat old (senior moment comment). But the stuff they shoot me with for the big C sure makes me feel that way sometimes. Last shot in 2 months. WooHoo!!! At $3k a pop, I'll be glad when that's over.

[dooobster]

Hey man, you two are doing a great job with the CFLs.
I'm lovin it. I started out with CFLs, had to talk my lady into letting me get a 400W HPS (which she did allow and I did get, lol) I DIY'd my own cool-tube, and so on & so forth. But I'm loving the story, and the plants looks great too.
Rock on :)

[Bodom Children Of]

plants are looking good. hope they finish up well, can't wait to see the buds.

:jointsmile:

[McToker]

Thanks y'all. We can't wait to see the buds either. Been out since early July.

It has been one heck of a learning experience. It didn't realize that I actually new so little about the wonderful herb.

[Shovelhandle]

Hey, hope you're feeling well soon and we're glad you're enjoying your grow, we are. Thanks for sharing, McToke

[McToker]

Thanks Shovelhandle. We're having a blast with this. I'd been searching for a hobby I could do indoors for some time. Who knew?:D

Got to repot the smaller plant today. After that, we'll shoot some pics of the girls.

The wife is still trying to think of uses for the freak. Does seem like an awful lot of plant to just waste.

[anbesol]

Hash.

[McToker]

Hash.

Thought about it. Might consider one of the simple methods.

[dooobster]

Thanks Shovelhandle. We're having a blast with this. I'd been searching for a hobby I could do indoors for some time. Who knew?:D

Got to repot the smaller plant today. After that, we'll shoot some pics of the girls.

The wife is still trying to think of uses for the freak. Does seem like an awful lot of plant to just waste.

Is he frosty at all? If there's not a lot of THC trichomes on the leaves, you won't get much/very good hash...
Some males do exhibit lots of trichs later on in flower, if you let him be for a while and see what happens trichome-wise that might be your best bet.
Sounds to me like he'd be a good plant to cross a female with, see if you can harness some of that vigor in some of his offspring!
Collect some pollen :) :rastasmoke:

[McToker]

dooobster ~ We are hoping to get feminized seeds from the bloomin' hermie that is out in the yard.

Too late for genetic experiments. The males are already hanging in the shop to dry. There were quite a few trichs when veiwing through a jeweler's loupe. We may experiment with one of the simpler methods for making hash.

As for collecting pollen, I'm already paranoid about contaminating our remaining females. I feel like we need "Clean Suits" just to go near the grow tent.:D Might have to put in one of those outdoor showers to hose off after looking at the hermie before we come back in the house.:D

[dooobster]

Hahaha okie dokie.
Sorry I was too late with my suggestion. :p

[McToker]

Hahaha okie dokie.
Sorry I was too late with my suggestion. :p

Missed it by that much.:D

Here are some pics of the girls. We just finished repotting the one in the front. She's still leaning a bit from the breeze out at the potting bench. I saw that water in the saucer after I snapped the pics and removed most of it.

Sure is a lot more room in there now.

[anbesol]

Thanks Shovelhandle. We're having a blast with this. I'd been searching for a hobby I could do indoors for some time. Who knew?:D

Got to repot the smaller plant today. After that, we'll shoot some pics of the girls.

The wife is still trying to think of uses for the freak. Does seem like an awful lot of plant to just waste.

lookin healthy!, nice light setup!

[hydrocannabis]

wow they looken real nice now.:thumbsup:

[McToker]

anbesol ~ Thanks, Frankenlight seems to be doing the trick, so far.

hydrocannabis ~ Thank you. We think so too, just like proud parents should.;)

It looks like 2 of the 3 unkowns in the backyard may be males. We'll give them another couple days to make sure before throwing them on the drying rack. So much for using the "crater shape on the end of the seeds" method to determine the sex of the seeds.:(

[McToker]

:DTemps were getting higher than we like....... up to 85 F. So, we took out the side lighting, for now. We may put some back in later.

We also tied down the main cola of the larger girl. This allowed us to lower the light fixture and the tops of the two girls are now even.

The shorter plant is still elevated on stacked pieces of 2x4's. We're hoping it will stretch a bit more and catch up to her big sister. If she doesn't, we'll just leave the 2x4's in.

With the main cola tied down, the light is now closer to many more bud sites. The pic was taken shortly after we tied her down but she'll straighten up soon.

It may not show in the pic too well but we can see lots of buds just beginning to form.:D Female flowers busting out all over the place. This is really starting to get exciting.:D

[McToker]

We have two 4 foot , 2 -bulb flouro shop lights that we used for the seedlings. We could probably squeeze these in on the sides at a diagonal angle for side lighting. They currently have Cool White 40 watt (4100k) bulbs in them.

Would they put out enough light to help the lower bud sites?

....... if they will help, should I get some different bulbs for them?

[hydrocannabis]

I would do it. I have dont that befor with 1 of my past grows and it helped the lower buds.

[dooobster]

Go for it. Certainly won't hurt 'em!

[McToker]

Thanks dooobster and hydroC. The flouros are in, one on each side. We'll just keep rotating the plants a 1/4 turn each day like we've been doing.

The main cola that we tied down finished straightening up so we were able to lower the main lights a bit closer.

[McToker]

It seems that the two 4 foot flouros raise the temp about the same amount as the two extra CFL's we had in for side lights. However, they do add considerably more light to a larger area of the lower growth and won't burn the leaves like the CFL's. For that reason we'd like to keep them in. So, in our ongoing battle to keep the temps in a more tolerable range, we thought we'd try exhausting to outside the house rather than relying on the A/C to compenste for the extra heat.

With a couple pieces of tin, a few feet of flex duct, a piece of cardboard and about 14 pounds of duct tape we connected the 8 inch exhaust fan on the Homebox to the exhaust fan in the ceiling. The weight was a bit much for the springs that normally hold up the grill on the exhaust vent. I had to put in 4 sheetrock screws to compensate. Nothing a few dabs of spackle can't take care of later.

So far the temp has dropped from 86 degrees to 83.8 in about 30 minutes. The house's A/C is still set at 76, 2 to 3 degrees lower than we normally keep it. We're hoping the grow box temp will go still lower. I was hoping to use insulated ducting but the smallest amount I could find was 25 feet and we already had the non-insulated stuff.

Mrs. McToker wanted me to be sure to mention that she is even less excited about the new vent arrangement than she was about having the grow box in the master bathroom.

But, it's the one room we can keep folks away from in our downsized retirement home.:) I really need to figure out how to build a stealth grow room in my shop. Building it isn't the stumbling block at this point...... it's the "stealth" part that is holding us back.

If this doesn't do the trick we will try placing frozen one gallon water jugs near the passive intake flaps. I can't remember whose idea that was but is seems plausable.

For what it's worth, the girls don't seem to mind the heat but, I figure that if we can't get it under control while running CFL's it will only be worse if/when we upgrade to an HPS down the road.

Sorry if I seem to go on and on but I figure the purpose of this log, in part, is to have a record of what did and didn't work with this grow.

[anbesol]

Mctoker. I really hope your using a carbon filter if your filtering outside. your going to smell the neighbor hood up. If you have a home box this is what you need to do to increase stealth.
Look at a long wall. Put a TV entertainment center against a wall. Put your home box next to it. right smack dab next to it.....now if you can, have like a dresser next to the homebox or something so its just the front of the homebox that is visible....go to homedepot and pick up a 8ft x 4ft piece of masonite (white side and brown side. for siding walls) and then go to a fabric store and less mrs. mctoker pic a print she really loves!! take the masonite and cut it to the exact dimensions of the home box. Cover the homebox sized masonite with the fabric and put it in front of the homebox to hide it...if you can, get to other boards of masonite and fabric and use it for the other sides. Hiding them is easier then you think. If you really think about it, if you cover that stupid green sympol on it, it looks exactly like a portable closet to hang jackets and dresses in. :) good luck man! say hello to mrs mctoker

[McToker]

Mctoker. I really hope your using a carbon filter if your filtering outside. your going to smell the neighbor hood up.

So much for my next brilliant idea.:(

We are running a DIY carbon scrubber. I don't know if it's because we are now down to two plants in the box or the fact that we got all the males out of there and they were just stinkier, but the smell just isn't that strong.

I was thinking about removing the scrubber. Guess I won't, afterall.

The inline duct fan we're using just doesn't seem to have the balls to pull through the filter and push air through two 90 degree bends even with the bathroom exhaust fan pulling on the other end.

Trying to be "cheap" I've been avoiding getting a better fan. Guess I'm just gonna have to break down and do it.

That brings up my next question. I've been looking at 6 inch fans that range in CFM from 250 to 440 and range in price from $119 to $165 from various vendors. Brands include EcoPlus, Value-Line, Cannon, Can, C.A.P. and GrowBright.

Not wishing to throw good money after bad, any recommendations?

I don't see that the fabric/masonite stealth would work out for our situation. Part of our problem is adult sons that will show up from out of town to visit on short notice. That pretty much rules out anywhere but the master bedroom and bath. I'll even have to be carefull with the shop as one of our boys will go in there to fabricate motorcycle parts. I'm thinking of building what looks like add-on storage to the outside back wall of the shop which would actually hide an insulated grow room, a room A/C unit and the ventilation system. I don't think that even our boys would pay much notice to just another storage shed.

[jamboyce]

McToker, i'm usin a a xs homebox at the moment and haven't got a carbon filter yet, my babies are just startin to flower and startin to stink out my room,
wat were you usin to keep the odour under control?

[McToker]

McToker, i'm usin a a xs homebox at the moment and haven't got a carbon filter yet, my babies are just startin to flower and startin to stink out my room,
wat were you usin to keep the odour under control?

We built ours similar to this one:

http://boards.cannabis.com/indoor-growing/147819-my-carbon-scrubber-patterened-after-bodom-children-ofs-unit.html

which is an adaptation of this one:

http://boards.cannabis.com/growroom-setup/90173-how-carbon-filter.html

and I think I'll build one based on this one in the future:

http://boards.cannabis.com/indoor-growing/150506-diy-carbon-filter-round-2-a.html

Ours does a pretty good job. It may not do as well as one with actual activated carbon. When we had all the other plants in there and it was really stinky, we also tossed a Bounce dryer sheet on the filter and just replaced the sheet with a new one every 24 hours.

The pic is from an earlier set up. It is now attatched vertically and directly to the exhaust fan. The fan is outside, on top of the Homebox.

[McToker]

"Don't try this at home!" At least that's what the Mrs. said. Remember the ducting we finished putting up last night connecting the Homebox exhaust to the bathroom exhaust fan? Well ........ we heard this crash..........

Yup. Seems that 14 pounds of duct tape just wasn't up to the task. The whole thing came crashing down.

Back to the drawing board.

Still looking at better fans. I'm kinda leaning toward a 6 inch Vortex fan. It seems to me that there just isn't that big of a price difference between the cheaper versions and the Vortex which I've found as low as $149.

[TheMetal1]

Maaaaaan :jointsmile:


Seems that 14 pounds of duct tape just wasn't up to the task. The whole thing came crashing down.

Yeah... that's usually not the best way to secure things in the grow room, but ya gotta do what you gotta do, right? lol

I've even found that multiple strips of that Gorilla tape isn't even good to hold back light cords... and that stuff is TOUGH. At least in my small space, the glue seems to stay too warm to hold its adhesive properties.

Oh, and word of advice... even if I don't practice what I preach :stoned:... DON'T go cheap on the fan. If you can afford it, a good fan will absolutely improve your conditions. Great ventilation will help out much more than just your temperatures. Have fun :hippy:

[misslilly]

Hey Mctoker, Thought I would throw my two cents in. I don't have a grow going right now , but plan on starting one again very soon. I've grown 2 years outside and had a nice grow going inside but had to quit because I had to move. I got to cloning and had a really nice mother plant but didn't get to flower I was lucky enough to have a whole room dedicated to it and the wife didn't mind.(even when I stole her cookware for my projects) I liked using computer fans for venting, but didn't get around to making an inline setup with them. But I do plan on trying soon. They seem to have a pretty good CFM rating. And are a heck of a lot cheaper than the setups that you can buy and very quiet. About $10 for a fan rated for 250cfm I believe. Maybe even put two together with some 6"pvc tube. I do believe you should have a certain amount of strait run before and after your fans for best air flow but don't remember how much. Probably has to do with the size of your pipe. Also you mentioned the 2 90 degree angles in your vent line. If you could change them to flex pipe and make a radius you would get better air flow. With ducting the straighter and shorter the run the better the airflow. But anyway, looks great and the best of luck. :thumbsup:

[anbesol]

CAP Valueline 6" Inline Exhaust Fan Vortex Style - HPS - eBay (item 280261651693 end time Sep-06-08 08:01:04 PDT) (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280261651693&ih=018&category=3186&_trksid=p3984.m106&_trkparms=algo%3DTS%26its%3DS%26itu%3DSS%252BSI%26 otn%3D25%26ps%3D15&BackToListReferer=http%3A%2F%2Fmy.ebay.com%2Fws%2F eBayISAPI.dll%3FMyEbayBeta)


Hydro Wholesale offers Wholesale Hydroponics, HPS and MH Grow Lights, HydroWholesale hydroponic Supp: 4â?� Can Filter/TD Series Fan COMBO (http://www.hydrowholesale.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=hydro&Product_Code=0CC2600&Category_Code=FFC) (i used this now)


Hydro Wholesale offers Wholesale Hydroponics, HPS and MH Grow Lights, HydroWholesale hydroponic Supp: 6â?� Odor Sok/TD Series Fan COMBO (http://www.hydrowholesale.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=hydro&Product_Code=COSTD6&Category_Code=FFC)

You need to move your carbon filter over to the other hole. so your not doing to 90 degree turns. or do what i have done since i have started HPS. Take the filter out of the grow tent (more space) and have just a bit of the duct work sticking in the tent and then attach the fan above your ceiling like your doing and stick the carbon filter right after that, so your no longer sucking air into it, but more blowing air. might solve your problem, but to do that you may have to get something that i listed.

Your idea for making the new grow room, is probably your best bet. MCtoker, you need to buy a fan that will fit your carbon filter, or buy a new one, the thing is you need to attach your fan as soon as it comes out of the homebox, if your having trouble with airflow....Yes, you need that carbon filter, dont risk it without it. You have no idea, how much weed smells after you have been living in the smell. I have my grow tent in my sleeping quarters aswell. However i will go see my girlfriend and she will say my jeans smell like weed. well this is before i got my carbon filter. now when she comes over, she says she can barely smell anything. Always use a carbon filter, because you can really stink up a house with a fan but no filter. Good luck!!!! Take clones. seeds are annoying. unless you dont have room for a clone box (rubber made containers).

[McToker]

TheMetal1 ~ Yup. A lesson learned.

misslilly ~ I think I'm done trying alternative fans. I'll just bite the bullit and get one designed for my purpose. But, I do appreciate your two cents. Thanks.

Thanks for the links anbesol. I hadn't stumbled across that vendor.

I've done the math and, on paper, a good 4 inch fan flowing roughly 178 CFM would be more than adequate for my 36 cubic foot space even allowing for more CFM to "scrub" as well as exhaust.

I just don't want to plunk down $$$ for a 4 inch fan only to find out I should have ordered a 6 inch fan.

I had planned to run the fan connected directly to the filter with no ducting or bends in between by just setting the fan on top of the tent with the filter attatched but directly below the fan, inside the tent,for now.

That said, we will most likely upgrade to an air cooled 400 watt HPS for our next grow. I want whatever fan I get to be able to handle the light, as well. With the addition of a light, I'll need to go to the fan sucking through the light and blowing through the filter due to space.

[McToker]

The older girl ( in the back) started pre-flowering while still in veg and has quite a jump on her little sister (in front).

Lots of bud sites showing on the older girl. Baby sister just seems to be taking her time. Both came from bagseed but from different years. Of course, we have no idea what variety either plant is and won't even hazard a guess.

[Shovelhandle]

Don't underestimate the runts. So far the plant with the lightest weight (2 oz dry bud) produced the nicest high, so far. I've tried about half of the 12 plants so far. Best of luck, Toke.

Shov

[anbesol]

Hey, When you get that 400 watt hps. go with a lumatek Digital ballast. i just got one and its great!

[McToker]

Shov ~ Actually, the bigger girl in the back was a runt, too. It was the second seed to pop, then it shot up with a long stem and fell over and was rowing in a corkscrew shape for quite a while. All of a sudden, I checked on her one morning and she was standing up proud. Been doing pretty well ever since.

Anbesol ~ Yup. After much reading I had already decided to go with the Lumatek.

Regarding the fan ~ I went back and read Rhizomes "Grow Room" thread yet again. Tey sy the third time is the charm.:) This time I drug out the calculator and did the math. Looks like a 4" fan will do just fine with or without adding the HPS. I found a 4" Vortex for $109 and decent shipping. Gonna go ahead and order it this weekend and see how it works with my filter.

[anbesol]

Awesome! good Luck!

[McToker]

The last unknown plant in the back yard finally decided to show its sex. It's a girl!!! Out of the nine we started with, that makes three girls and one hermie.

OK. If I understand this correctly, the seeds produced by the hermie should be feminized. Since the hermie will most likely pollinate the outdoor female, will her seeds also be feminized?

I did break down and ordered a fan the other day. I also ordered a carbon filter to go with it as I wasn't sure how my DIY filter would match up with the fan.

The indoor girls are doing well. The latest one to bloom is really starting to show off her bud sites. The buds on the late bloomer appear to be coming tighter or more compact than those on the early bloomer. I have a feeling that we'll be harvesting the late bloomer several weeks later than her sister.

[misslilly]

If you let your hermi pollinate other plants (or itself which is worse) you will be helping to pass on that trait to your next batch of seeds. The views that I have read about is that if you have a hermaphrodite, get rid of it quick. Incest in plants is like it is in humans. Seems to bring out the bad traits.

[Shovelhandle]

But, some of the best high quality herb strains have high hermi tendancies. I've grown out some hermie seeds and got one great, 100% fem crop with very few seeds. Most plants had none. All the herb was great.
I was on one cannabis growing site where I had to leave due to the harrassment over feminized (hermi) seeds. I still disagree that it would be the downfall of society if I grow out hermie seeds. WTF? Up here the locals have grown for a long while and hermie plants are just part of the business. Sometimes they are the best head in the crop. So, go ahead. after you veg a plant for 8 weeks, and after another 8 weeks of flower it shows a male part or two (which is how it usually goes) rip it out. Burn it and all it's seeds!

Sorry for the rant. I'll probably get jumped on again...

Shov

[misslilly]

Hey Shovelhandle, Always good to hear about someone's experence. I guess like a lot of things in nature you never know what might happen. And some of the best things can happen if you keep an open mind.

[McToker]

Shov and Misslilly ~ I really apperciate your responses. It wasn't my intent to spark a debate but as long as things stay civil, which appears to be the case, I suppose all is good.:)

Since I'm growing from bagseed which I understand is frequently prone to produce hermies anyway, I suppose I should expect one once in a while. I just look at it as one more smokable plant that we'll have.

We've been dealing with seeds in our smoke for as long as I can remember. It's no big deal to us.

It will be interesting to see the difference in potency, if any, between the hermie and the female growing outdoors and the two girls without beans growing indoors.:jointsmile:

Once we start getting ahold of some really nice strains, well......... we deal with it when it comes up.;)

[McToker]

The new fan and filter arrived. I guess I wasn't quite prepared for the size of the filter but it is supposed to be matched to the fan. We ended up running some 4 inch flex duct out of the top of the Homebox to the fan which is connected directly to the filter. We figured we may as well make sure it would work with the fan blowing through the filter as we'll have to run it that way when we upgrade to an air cooled light just because of limited space inside the tent.

It just amazed us that a 4 inch fan can make the sides of the tent suck in. Temp dropped from 83.7 to 81.1 as soon as we turned the fan on. I'm guessing it will go still lower.

The girls are doing well. The older one is starting to show nice trichromes on the trim leaves.;)

[McToker]

All systems are GO!!!:D

[dooobster]

They look beautiful, McToker. Very impressive indeed!
Grow on, my friend. :D

[hydrocannabis]

yah the do look very beautiful.

[McToker]

Thanks dooobster and hydroC. The wife and I are very happy with the progress. The anticipation gets worse every day.

[TheMetal1]

Hey McToker... I've been following along silently. Doing a great job over there :thumbsup:

How are you digging the Homebox? I've been looking into the Homebox XS just for something tiny. I haven't heard anything bad about them other than they are more expensive than some other brands. I did hear that they are completely lightproof, except for the Homebox Lite. How is the quality? Zippers, frame, etc...

Keep it up :hippy:

[McToker]

Thanks TM1. I'm sold on the Homebox. Quality is top notch. It went together easily and all seems well made. The frame is metal poles that went together properly and heavy duty plastic corners to connect the poles. The cross bars that hook over the top of the frame will support 100 pounds. We opted to put the new filter and fan outside the tent because our Frankenstein CFL light fixture takes up so much room already. The new filter turned out to a tad bit bigger than I was expecting (12 inch diameter and 14 inches long) but it sure is doing a good job. With 16 pounds of carbon, it had better.;)

We had some light leak issues along the seams that we addressed in a separate thread. Turned out we just hadn't tucked the sewn in flaps behind the frame bars. Doh.:i feel stupid: Live and learn.;) We're going to build a stealth room (closet) in the shop and plan to get a second Homebox, probably a bigger one. We'll use one for vegging and/or a mother plant and the other (hopefully larger) for flowering.

Really wasn't that expensive, about $139 from buy-a-homebox. Since then I've seen them on a few websites in the $120's for the Homebox S, which is what we have. When not in use, it can easily be taken apart and stashed under a bed or wherever you please. Between grows we plan to just take some Clorox wipes and wipe down the inside.

I guess you could say we're quite happy with it.

[TheMetal1]

You... my friend.... have just sold me on a Homebox :jointsmile:

I have a wooden cab made out of an old... well I don't actually know what it was, but it is working perfectly for practice. I'm just really low on head room. Although, I think I may be breaking a record for least amount of height for a flowering plant. The box is about 2 feet tall. The lights hang down about 8" and the pots come up about 10". This leaves me very little room, but it can actually flower 3-4 heavily LST'd plants with CFL. The thought of getting a Homebox with about 4 feet in height... is like taking a deeeep breath of fresh air. I was just wondering about the quality, but you and a few hundred other people I have read about.... LOVE IT! Thanks for the input.

Keep up the good work :hippy:

[McToker]

TM1 ~ We're certainly happy with ours; happy enough to consider a second one. Anbesol has the size (XS) that you are talking about and IIRC he was talking about getting a second (larger) one as well. We googled it and searched on the forum to read as many opinions as we could beforehand and found no negatives. It sounds like you've done the same. Even Miss Stinkyattic was impressed with it when she helped assemble one at her local grow shop.

And...... yes..... I have the capability to build a cabinet or 2x4 and panda tent but I kinda figure, why re-invent the wheel.

Good luck!

[daihashi]

If you have problems keeping your humidity up I would recommend a wooden cabinet.

I built one at home that is pretty nice. As a side effect I found that the wood would absorb moisture in the air over time. Eventually it got to where it was able to bump up my humidity by close to 10%.. which was very beneficial to me as I was having a hard time to keep humidity up past 30%. Now with my plants fully watered I can get up to 50% humidity without going through tons and tons of effort.

I don't even live in a dry climate but I live in a climate that requires lots of A/c and that seems to kill humidity in the house.

The wooden cabinet was a nice fix for me and saved me the hassle of having to put a humidifier in the same room as the plants.

I have scrap materials to build a 6ftx4ft cabinet. I'll probably be doing so once I move in the next few weeks.

:hippy:

[McToker]

daihashi ~ Humidity hasn't been a problem for us. It pretty much stays at 42% inside the homebox even with the house A/C running. When it dips below 40 we just turn on the cold humidifier for a few hours (outside the tent but aimed at one of the intakes). We haven't had to use it all that much during flower.

We kept the humidty at about 50% for vegging and just refilled the humidifier once a day. Our antique furniture pieces loved the extra moisture, too.

[smoothsmoke]

cfl's looking money hell yea I am using those babies

[TheMetal1]

Hey McToker :jointsmile:

Quick question:
I read somewhere (maybe this thread actually) that the Homebox comes in a box labeled "Homebox: Indoor grow room" (in green writing of course :wtf:) Is this true? I just want to know what the box will say. I'm fine with it saying Homebox, but I hate when companies put something about indoor growing on the delivery box. I have to have it delivered to a work place.

Thanks

[McToker]

smoothsmoke ~ Good Luck!

TM1 ~ I remember it did say "Homebox" but I don't recall the other. The box is long gone or I'd check for you.

[TheMetal1]

That's alright. It may be a good thing that you don't recall. If I had received it labeled "Homebox: Indoor Grow Room"... I would have remembered :stoned:

There are thousands of things that could be referred to as a Homebox... so that's not so bad.

Keep us posted on those flowers :hippy:

[McToker]

Today's photos. This is feeding day so the girls look a bit wilted.

The 4th pic is one of the smaller buds on the larger of the two plants.

The 5th pic is a bud on the smaller plant. I tried different flash settings hoping to catch the pinkish hue of the flowers on this plant. Both plants are from the same source but different times. #4 is from Xmas '07 and #5 (the pink one) is from Summer '08. Both are bagseed so, who knows what variety they are.

We keep telling ourselves, it won't be long now.:D;):)

[anbesol]

AWESOME!!!! your buds are looking healthy! IF you can, get your lights closer. you will see a major improvment.

[Shovelhandle]

:thumbsup:

[dooobster]

Lookin pretty awesome, McToker.
Rock on CFLs... Rock on :D

[McToker]

Thanks folks.

In the pics the lights were raised out of the way for feeding day. We try to arrange it where that tall cola actually comes up between several light bulbs and that puts the remaining bulbs closer to the other buds.

[McToker]

The older of the two girls appears to be near ready for harvest. About 10% of the trichomes are cloudy rather than clear. We went ahead and took her off nutes and switched to straight water. It just takes too long to get orders in to bother with a commercial flush product.

This is the plant that started flowering while the rest were still vegging. She started flowering about 2 1/2 weeks before we switched the lights. So, I guess she's actually about Day 64.

The younger girl has a few trichomes starting to cloud up but not enough, yet.

We couldn't wait. We took a sample bud and did a quick dry. NICE!!!:jointsmile::stoned::D

[MediJuana]

Awesome plant! You're grow makes me feel more comfortable using all cfls in my grow, you have bout 20 days or so left? maybe more? plenty of time for the flowers to plump up.

Keep up the good work

toke on

[tokr2153]

lookin really good man cant wait to hear about the smoke

[McToker]

We decided to let the girls fatten up a bit more. The sample bud we took was a bit fluffy and light but still providing enough smoke to hold us over. The taste is improving with each day spent in the jar.

[hydrocannabis]

new pix please. I wanna see how mich bigger she has gotten.

and good idea on flowering a little longer.:thumbsup:

nice job so far.

[McToker]

Well......... the older girl never really recovered from a Calcium/Magnesium deficiency. She lost almost all her fan leaves so we went ahead and harvested her.

The younger plant (in the photos) seemed ready, as well. The cloudy to clear ratio of the trichomes was about 50/50. It may not show in the pics but almost half of the pistels had changed color. Since we're running up against our deadline, we went ahead and harvested her, too.

I'll post a final weight when they are done drying. Since the tent is the only odor controlled space we have, we're drying the buds in there. It is also easier to control the humidity in the tent.

We'll start our next grow in January or February. Vegging will still be done with CFL's but we'll get either a 250 or 400 watt HPS for flowering. Might even try some "hempy buckets".

We sure learned a WHOLE BUNCH with this grow and really want to say a great big THANK YOU to all of you who provided info on this forum, helped us solve our problems and especially those of you that provided moral support. We couldn't have done it without all of you.

[dlovejah]

Very nice.... Looks like a healthy Cola.. CFL's rock on my low wattage brothers..:rastasmoke:d Get a 400 MH/HPS and you will be impressed with what you can achieve, I think. :thumbsup:

[McToker]

I liked the CFL's for vegging. Didn't need all that many. But for flowering, it takes too many. It took 483 watts to drive 21 CFL's resulting in 33,600 lumens. That's not including the two 4-foot flouros we had in there. So, a 400 watt HPS would be cheaper to run and a 250 considerably cheaper. We'll probably go for the 400, hoping for even more densly packed buds and better light penetration to the lower levels of the plants.

We'll be shifting our growing season to winter/spring. Having to keep the house A/C set lower than we usually keep it got a tad bit expensive. We'll just have to see if we can grow enough to last a year with just the one growing season.

[McToker]

Here's the final weigh in. The older plant from '07 beans produced 2.565 oz, dried. The smaller plant from '08 beans gave up 2.345 oz, dried.

So, the two girls gave us a total of 4.91 oz of dried bud.

This does not include a couple buds we took as samples. So, I suppose we can call it an even 5 ounces.

We're going to go with bagseed, again, for the next grow after the holidays. We still have some beans left from both the '07 and '08 bags. It will be interesting to see any final weight diference flowering with an HPS as opposed to the CFL's.

[Shovelhandle]

Very nice!

[oSecretGardeno]

hey McToker -

I just read through your entire log with great interest since I am doing an entirely CFL grow also. It looks like things worked out well and I am curious to know how the smoke is? Somewhere on here there is a "template" for a smoke report, but I am struggling to find it. Anyways, any info on the smoke would be wonderful (type of high, taste, smell, smoothness, duration, appearance, etc etc). Hopefully you are noticing a positive difference in herb with no seeds. I am from a land of "pot snobs" so we never had grass with seeds in it; I guess I was lucky!

Any suggestions on things you would have done different? I am attempting to master the ghetto stealth grow due to my current living situation and I have to say it is a lot of fun.

After reading over your whole, very informative log, I feel like I was right there with you for the whole ride. Awesome grow, keep up the good work!

Peace

:smokin:

[McToker]

Thanks Shov......

oSecret ~ As for things we would have done differently: We wouldn't have wasted so much $$ and effort on cheaper duct fans and a homemade filter. We also wouldn't have used Miracle Grow soil. Although it eventually worked out, we wouldn't use it again. We are anxious to try a batch of the same seeds again but using an HPS to flower. We can see a benefit to greater light penetration and are hoping for heavier and tighter packed buds.

Can't really give you a full smoke report yet. The buds are dry but not fully cured, yet. We've only been hitting some of the shake, so far. Already, we've noticed a difference in the taste over the original donor bag. It's a bit sweeter with a hint of freshness, like taking a breath after a new snow. The aroma has traces of skunk and spiced citrus. The smoke is not at all harsh. It's more of a head high, definitely not "couch-lock" . The buzz lasts about 45 minutes.

The sample buds we took a few weeks ago definitely imroved in both flavor and "high" intensity the longer they cured. So, we have high (no pun intended) hopes that as the final batch cures, it will improve, as well.

The best choices we made were getting a Homebox tent, a mechanism to raise and lower the lights and the Vortex fan and Carbonaire filter combo. The fan and filter worked so well at controlling odor that we'll be able to set up in the guest room for the next batch and not have to worry about permiating everything in the room with that unmistakable odor of bud.

[oSecretGardeno]

Thanks for the quick response McToker, I will definitely think about all those suggestions. Sounds like you got some good bud out of your grow, probably much fresher then the original bag they came from. The smoke report you provided was exactly what I was looking for ... mostly to satisfy my curiosity :)

A couple of things:

How loud did the exhaust (vortex) end up being? Louder or quieter then your homemade rig? Just curious as I have noise concerns in my home.

Have you thought of doing hydro or hemp bags? I have been reading a lot about hemp bags and they seem like a VERY simple type of hydro method.

Enjoy that harvest!

:smokin:

[cannabisdude9]

Check out some 42 watt cfls we had good luck with them in a rubbermaid setup, we also used the LST method and it really was cool. our first time and all went well. This year we did the outdoor garden the yeild was nice and the smoke is great so cant complain other than i lost a couple, so i didnt get to have all that im allowed :( :thumbsup:

[McToker]

oSGo ~ The Votex fan is louder than our homemade setup was. It's slightly louder than a standard bathroom exhaust fan but not nearly as loud as the exhaust fan over the stove. There are mufflers available to help with the noise, if needed. But, we had the fan and filter outside of the tent. Had they been inside, I'm sure it would have been quieter.

We identified the spice flavor. Up until now we'd been rolling pinners with standard quality rolling papers. Last night we fired up a piece of a bud in a glass bud pipe. Woah!!! The flavor was easily recognizable. It tasted like some sage green hashish that freinds of ours brought back from Germany several years ago. I guess the thick papers were covering up the true flavor.

We've been looking into Hempy Buckets and considering experimenting with some form of that method next time.

dude9 ~ We moved a couple plants outside, too. Didn't have much luck though. We have a security light that kicks on whenever the dogs go out to the yard. Seems to have messed up the flowering cycle.

[oSecretGardeno]

Awesome McToker, thanks for the info. Those damn vortex fans are expensive, but definitely seem like they are worth it. Probably worth the investment.

Keep me updated if you start another grow, I will DEFINITELY be following along.

Peace bro


:smokin:

[GrowinUp]

Nice Grow man, i'm jelous :thumbsup:
Where'd u get those Y sockets, i live in Australia, anyone know if i can them here?
________

Mine: http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-log/164027-my-first-grow-1-inside-1-outside-p.html

[McToker]

Sorry for the long absence. Looks like we harvested just in time. Within a couple days after the harvest I got quite sick. Mrs. McToker finally dragged me to the hospital and a couple hours later I was in surgery for a perforated colon. It's been a loooooonnnng recovery. I'm not fully recovered but feeling good enough to get online, enjoy a bit of smoke and I've even started shopping for upgrades for the next grow.

Looks like we're going to get a larger Hombox, probably the "XL", and go with a 400 to 600 watt HPS. Heck, we may even break down and order some beans.

[dooobster]

Sorry for the long absence. Looks like we harvested just in time. Within a couple days after the harvest I got quite sick. Mrs. McToker finally dragged me to the hospital and a couple hours later I was in surgery for a perforated colon. It's been a loooooonnnng recovery. I'm not fully recovered but feeling good enough to get online, enjoy a bit of smoke and I've even started shopping for upgrades for the next grow.

Looks like we're going to get a larger Hombox, probably the "XL", and go with a 400 to 600 watt HPS. Heck, we may even break down and order some beans.

Wow McToke... Glad to hear you're ok man.
Welcome back, and I'm looking forward to your next grow :)