Should I get a Nutramist fogger?

[Opie Yutts]

I've always wanted to try fogging, since it is the absolute best way to give your roots oxygen. The results are supposed to surpass common aeroponics and NFT. I'm ready to re-do my spray system, since that's not really aeroponics, and it gets plugged up. Upon researching pump sizes and what all is required for true misting, I'm better off buying a fogger. I guess the new thing is to combine fogging with NFT, but due to power outages I'm considering combining it with a shallow res for the last 2 inches roots.

Has anyone compared the cheapo ultrasonic foggers to the Nutramist foggers? Do they get plugged up, are they hard to clean, do they need special "non-chunky" nutrients? Any comments regarding true fogging for a method of feeding would be much appreciated. There doesn't seem to be a lot of info about it.

Nutramist Ultrasonic Foggers For Hydroponics, Horticulture, Propagation, Foliar Feeding, Greenhouse And Grow Room Humidification An Pesticide Application: (http://www.nutramist.com/)

thanks

[Opie Yutts]

http://www.hhydro.com/nutramist_fogger_instructions.pdf

[Opie Yutts]

Wow, talk about the popularity of the fog feed technique. The boards and this thread are going crazy.

Well even if I'm the only one, I'm about ready to take the plunge dad gummit. I've been saying for years that the key to huge healthy plants is plenty of oxygen in the rhizome. You'll see, you'll all be sorry. No wait, I didn't mean that. Please somebody stop me. I'm just about to order a single head fog module and get serious about this. I've found that the cheapo ones for fountain effects and stuff do not do the job as well. The whole point of FFT AKA Fog Feed Technique is to make a dry fog, which is water droplets under 5 micron. The bigger the droplet the less readily it is uptook (uptaken?) and larger droplets are really just like spraying. The cheapo ones make droplets from 10-50 micron, and are not designed to shatter nutrients.

NUTRAMIST Single Head Fog Module @ FUTUREGARDEN.COM (http://www.futuregarden.com/cgi-bin/shop/70-1048.html)

I love talking to myself.

[Opie Yutts]

http://www.hhydro.com/nutramist_garden_instructions.pdf

[xcrispi]

I'm still watchin Opie .
Crispi :jointsmile:

[Opie Yutts]

Keep the dream alive and stuff. More coming soon hopefully. Maybe a fogging log.

[GreenDestiny]

Keep the dream alive and stuff. More coming soon hopefully. Maybe a fogging log.

That'd be awesome, I've never seen a grow log for that method.... yet

[oldmac]

Hey Opie;

I checked out the Nutramist Fogger,and was not too impressed once I saw it in person. It is based on a pond fogger, and you could build a better one yourself, and a lot cheaper.

I'm currently building a frankenfogger machine called "Fogfognugen" because it will use two types of fog. 1) dry ultra-sonic fog produced by a Frapaplas Fogger and 2) a wet fog produced using impengment mister nozzles and a 150psi pump.

You can check out my build and see other experimenters of fog at:
Fogponics Online (http://www.fogponics.com).

Check out page 58 of the new High Times, named Fogponics and the Dominaero machine they make, the best new growing technique.

PS: I also have a picture of the TI Smartlamp over there.

[joedirte]

that link you posted said the nutramist fogger is $25. why go for the cheepo version? how much cheaper do they get? or how much can they cost.

if this has applications in cloning, that might be interesting (or atleast a good way to get off the ground.)

hey. if you dont do this, i might give it a shot.

[Opie Yutts]

hey. if you dont do this, i might give it a shot.

Oh I'm doing it. The fog generators are supposed to be here in 2 days, and I lay awake all night thinking about design.

I've been doing some reading that these fog generators add a bunch of heat to the reservoir. My initial plan was to have 2 reservoirs, and the fogger in the one with the plants. Now I may actually build a small unit like the $300 nutramist models, thinking that the separate reservoir like they have might solve the heat issue. I don't think the fog will remain hot once it travels through the hose up to the plants, but if anyone has input on this I would certainly appreciate it. It would be much easier to simply put the fogger in with the roots.

[Opie Yutts]

I'm currently building a frankenfogger machine called "Fogfognugen" because it will use two types of fog. 1) dry ultra-sonic fog produced by a Frapaplas Fogger and 2) a wet fog produced using impengment mister nozzles and a 150psi pump.

Thanks for dropping by.

Perhaps you could help me on the 2 types of fog though. How often are you planning on running the nozzles? It kinda seems like they would wash down the roots, thus defeating the purpose of the dry fog. I would expect no real improvement in the amount of fine root hairs you would normally get with dry fog, and I thought wet fogs produced roughly the same results as spraying. The whole point of fogging is to produce 5 micron droplets so that the roots get loads of air with their food and drink.

Also my understanding about misting and pumps is that for a true mist (something like 50 micron droplets) you'll need a 1000 psi, not 150. That and clogging is why I gave it up.

I'm new to fog research, so please correct me where I'm wrong.

[Opie Yutts]

You can check out my build and see other experimenters of fog at:
Fogponics Online (http://www.fogponics.com).



Well I'd love to see it, but even after finding your thread and signing up so I can see the pictures, they won't let me see them. After thanking me for logging in, I get taken to a page that tells me I'm not logged in.

Any chance you could post some photos here? Or even links to photos?

[Opie Yutts]

Fogponics Online (http://www.fogponics.com).
Check out page 58 of the new High Times, named Fogponics and the Dominaero machine they make, the best new growing technique.


I feel like an idiot today, but I can't figure out how to work the High Times site. Even after searching and getting a link to the article you talk about, it just takes me to the list of this year's issues.

Or were you talking about a physical copy of High Times? The nearest one is 2 hours of driving at 13 mpg, and mail is out of the question.

Dad gummit, we need those photos, STAT!

[Opie Yutts]

Here's some darn nice rooting using fogponics:

Picasa Web Albums - Jesse - root progress... (http://picasaweb.google.com/jessejames13/RootProgressDays4569And11)

[xcrispi]

Here's some darn nice rooting using fogponics:

Picasa Web Albums - Jesse - root progress... (http://picasaweb.google.com/jessejames13/RootProgressDays4569And11)

I wonder how fast -n- hairy cuttings / clones get compared to these seed sprouts ? A homemade fog cloner might be in our near future here .
Crispi :stoned:

[Opie Yutts]

Not sure but that guy said it was a tomato seed. I learned in medical marijuana class that if you have talk about conditions for plants but don't want to say the M word, then talk about tomatoes, since they have very similar needs and desires.

I'm thinking I might just drop a unit in my cheapo aero cloner, but not turn it on until some roots begin to show. Still worried about heat though. I'm not going to spend $450 on an aquarium chiller for my cheapo cloner, which already works pretty well.

[anbesol]

OPie, im still waiting on your log. come on bro. im so excited to see this

[xcrispi]

That's no shit Opie ,
I never thought of the heat involved . :stoned:
I have a lil cloner like yours BTW , Reaper pirated your design , and I stole it from him . Works good even for popin seeds . :thumbsup:
Crispi :jointsmile:

[Weezard]

Wow, talk about the popularity of the fog feed technique. The boards and this thread are going crazy.

Well even if I'm the only one, I'm about ready to take the plunge dad gummit. I've been saying for years that the key to huge healthy plants is plenty of oxygen in the rhizome. You'll see, you'll all be sorry. No wait, I didn't mean that. Please somebody stop me. I'm just about to order a single head fog module and get serious about this. I've found that the cheapo ones for fountain effects and stuff do not do the job as well. The whole point of FFT AKA Fog Feed Technique is to make a dry fog, which is water droplets under 5 micron. The bigger the droplet the less readily it is uptook (uptaken?) and larger droplets are really just like spraying. The cheapo ones make droplets from 10-50 micron, and are not designed to shatter nutrients.

NUTRAMIST Single Head Fog Module @ FUTUREGARDEN.COM (http://www.futuregarden.com/cgi-bin/shop/70-1048.html)

I love talking to myself.


5 microns, 'ey?
Who knew?
I was just about to yank a fogger from my koi pond.
You just saved me time and trouble.

You jus' keep talkin to yourself, brah.
Good t'ings comin' from dat!:)

A hi ha,
Weezard

[oldmac]

Opie;

Sorry to hear abt the trouble gettting into fogponics, I'll post some pics here for you and others. Give the other a try again tho, I'll let John the webmaster know.
BTW the pics above you show in blackstar collars labeled Jesse, is JesseJames who owns Fogponics. (NebulaWest)

Most of the inexpensive foggers are based on "pond foggers" which is fine. Just make sure you get the bouy with it; it is designed to take the ultra-sonic head and float in water. It is the easiest way to keep the water level correct for the head. Also you really need to go to 3-head or more to fill most good size grow chambers, unless you go individual 1-head unit per single plant grow bucket.

Let me introduce you to a frankenfogger machine known as "Fogfognugen"

Uses two types of fog:

1)ultra-sonic dry fog from a Frapaplas Fogger from Plastique Frapa inc (http://www.frapaplas.com)
cost is $629 canadian, duty free NAFTA, be prepared to give fed ID # or personnel SS#, you lucky americans.

2)Bete Nozzles PJ-12 impingement nozzle with .012 orifice beatin against a pin size obstruction

I calculate the Frapa running abt 10mins every 1/2 hr, and the pressure misters 3-5 seconds (depending on system pressurization time) every 1/2 hr.

Here are a few pics.

[oldmac]

Here's some pics of the plastic.
2- 4'X4' grow trays and lids. 138 plant site each side 276 Total.

Mister nozzles are plumbed in the lid, fog thru large pvc pipe.
note the cool "root gurards" for fog inlet....oldmac's root spa!

[oldmac]

Thanks for dropping by.

Perhaps you could help me on the 2 types of fog though. How often are you planning on running the nozzles? It kinda seems like they would wash down the roots, thus defeating the purpose of the dry fog. I would expect no real improvement in the amount of fine root hairs you would normally get with dry fog, and I thought wet fogs produced roughly the same results as spraying. The whole point of fogging is to produce 5 micron droplets so that the roots get loads of air with their food and drink.

Also my understanding about misting and pumps is that for a true mist (something like 50 micron droplets) you'll need a 1000 psi, not 150. That and clogging is why I gave it up.

I'm new to fog research, so please correct me where I'm wrong.

Just realized I did not cover this all.
The reason for two systems is redundancy. High value crop, why take chances? Either system will keep plants going, so if one system goes tits up, no panic.
I've seen, in person, demonstrations of both sytems before. The original Frapa fogger was designed in Isreal (where I saw It) and was later made under parternship with Canadian plastics mfg. It's a true 5micron or less fog.
Ain't cheap.
Mister Nozzle's like Bete, produce "some" sub-5 micron, but the majority of the fog or mist is 5-50 micron. Natural fog is said to be abt 30 (your micron's my vary)

You said it above Opie: The fine delicate roots love oxygenated moisture (and even co2) but there are also larger/longer tap roots that like drinking water. Figure give them a drink of wet fog.

As to clogs, first if you use a pond fogger, change the transducers right away. Second be very carefull with what you use.(no olivia's!)
I'm pushing things with the nozzles I'm using, orifice is just .012. Key here is good filtration before pump...I'm using a 5 micron sediment filter. BTW, these brass nozzle's are probably overkill, they cost 13.50 each in a lot of 36. I'm using 8per tray, 16per fogfognugen, and I will be building two. Also, I'll be running very light nutrient solutions, abt 20% and I plan to utilize more foliar feeding (for various reasons).

The proposed schedule is Frapa fogger 10 mins on (@10min after the hour and 1/2 hr) every 30 mins. 24 hrs a day, don't want roots to dry out during dark period, even if they are not feeding.
Mister nozzles 3-5 seconds every half hour(on the hour and 1/2 hr) on photocell=only when lights are on. Photocell in cycle timer syncs with other timer, when lights come on.

So for example start at 7:00pm lights come on, first event is mister pump for 3-5sec. !0 mins later Frapa starts, runs 10mins and stops. 7:30 mister pump, 10 mins later etc etc.

Here's a place with various size foggers, maybe give you some ideas. Those small size room humidifer's are not too expensive and could hold promise. Plus they have pond foggers up the wazoo. Mainland Mart factory outlet and wholesale supplier (http://www.mainlandmart.com)

[oldmac]

Wow, talk about the popularity of the fog feed technique. The boards and this thread are going crazy.

Wow Opie you are right. Everyone jumping in at the same time. hehe

I love talking to myself.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, and you got me doing it now.

You know, maybe you should have started it in "Advance Tech".....

........I know I would have seen it sooner.

Yeah, let's keep the good ideas alive.

[Weezard]

Wow!

Dude!

Wow!

Weeze

[d4twamp]

They say your not crazy if you talk to yourself; it's when you start answering back when you need to start to worry... lol... I guess I need to start to worry cuz I'm always answering my own rambles..

I too am interested in fogponics Haven't lost sleep over it like you Opie but I know what you mean ... My brain is always running about projects I'd love to get goin in the CULTIVATION STATION.. I'll definitly be subscribing to this thread...

Thanx for your posts too Opie, I've learned alot by lurking as you and the usual suspects help others in their adventures in this great hobby... After being a dirty boi I think h20 is the way 2 gro, indoors at least...although I'd like to try hydro outdoor from seed some day go for size..
But fogponics is definitly the future, And I'd love to bear witness to the revolution...

Later D:S5:

[Opie Yutts]

Thanks very much to everyone who's stopping by. I'm glad to see others are interested in fog. And oldmac, wow, thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge and photos. I'm going to read that more carefully when I'm more awake, but for now I've got to get this posted and get to bed.

The fog units came today and Iâ??m doing a little testing. I planned on putting one in a veg res and one in a bud res, but I have doubts that one singe-head unit will be enough. Iâ??m hoping to get away with putting a unit or two in the chamber with the roots instead of building a little pumping machine like the $300 Nutramist thing. As I mentioned though, Iâ??m worried about temperature, and I think a separate pumping machine would solve the heat issue.

So some things Iâ??m testing are:
1) Will it make fog rise 14 inches above it an a largish container.
2) Will it fill up a container enough to make fog spill out an opening in the top.
3) Amount of time needed to fill up a container.
4) Temperature swing in reservoir.

I made a float for it from some packing that came with my T-5 fixture. The fogger is sitting in a 3â?� net pot. I had to cut a lip in the circle to get the fogger low enough for the proper amount of liquid to cover the sensor. The sensor is supposed to be 1-2 cm below the surface which is roughly 3/8-3/4 inch. The unit shuts off if the water gets too low.

The first thing I tested was fog output at various water levels above the sensor. I assumed that the closer the surface was to the sensor the greater the fog output would be, but I was wrong. I wasnâ??t being scientific or anything. Iâ??m just going by what I perceived, and it seems like thereâ??s a little more fog when the water level is closer to 2 cm rather than 1 cm or less.

I didnâ??t realize it would splash so much. You could put a couple of these in a small cheapo aerocloner and you wouldnâ??t have to use air stones for the bubbles. Iâ??m seriously thinking about trying this. Iâ??ve read several places that fogging alone is not really good for rooting cuttings until they show some roots. The dry fog just doesnâ??t keep em moist enough. If I recall correctly though, the people that have been saying this have been pumping their fog into the chamber instead of leaving a unit splashing in the res. If I did this, once the clones take root I would like a way to lower the res level or stop the splashing on the roots somehow. Seems like the splashing would defeat the purpose of a dry fog.

Iâ??m testing in an 8 gallon container with about 1.5 gal of water, but the ones I plan on using in the grow are more than 3 times that size. Does this mean that it will take more than 3 times as long to fill up the bigger containers with fog, or does it mean Iâ??m kinda silly for not just testing in the final container? For now Iâ??m going to play dumb and assume the bigger container will eventually fill up.

One thing I found out pretty quick is that you donâ??t want to have the cord positioned directly above the transducer (the water smasher disk-shaped thingee). I know, duh, but it just didnâ??t dawn on me until I noticed that not much fog was coming out for some reason. The instant I moved it I noticed an increase in fog production.

Iâ??ve been running this thing now for 1 1/2 hr and Iâ??m done for tonight. By the time I get this posted it will be my birthday. Iâ??m a bit surprised and pleased about the temperature. The res was 84 degrees at the start and only went up to 86. Not too shabby, maybe we can handle it, especially since the res will be recalculating and the test was not. I wonder if it would be safe to assume that for each head added to a situation like this you could expect an increase of 2 degrees. One thing I had not thought about before was the fact that the transformer will add heat to the grow as well. A 3 head unit may have an advantage in this department. I can probably keep it outside of at least the flowering area, but at the end the transformer was 121 degrees. Hmmm, do you think I could wire one transformer to run 2 or more units?

[Opie Yutts]

These photos are a time lapse from ignition to one minute.

[Opie Yutts]

These photos are at 8, 15, 30, 60 and 90 minutes. I never really noticed much of a change after one hour. Will it fill up a 29 gallon tub in 3 hours? The good news is the container appears to be mostly filled up. I never really saw fog coming from the lid that was closed except for a tiny crack. Once the lid was open though the fog rolled out a bit.

[Opie Yutts]

I know, wow, a lid. Well these photos show the progression and they are also taken at 8, 15, 30, 60 and 90 minutes.

Comments please. Goodnight.

[Opie Yutts]

maybe we can handle it, especially since the res will be recalculating and the test was not.

Uh, recirculating that is.

[Weezard]

Opie said;
"Hmmm, do you think I could wire one transformer to run 2 or more units?"

Probably, they use standard wallwarts.
And they may be shippng the same one that they ship with the fountain foggers which also support an LED display.
But if it's running that hot...
Just look on the mandatory label for the max current rating and divide by two. ;)
Then check the modules appetite.

Doubt that a small voltage drop would cause 'em to drop out of oscillation.
Don't know enough about how they work, yet, to guess if it would affect droplet size.
If so, it's a "feature". Makes 'em tunable.
Love the float.:thumbsup: Gonna steal it.

Regards
Weeze

[Opie Yutts]

Hey oldmac, I was wondering about those root guards. Are those the round things in the photo that look like smoke detectors? I was thinking about this problem too. Do those do a good job of keeping roots out? Also you may know about something else I was wondering, does the transducer kill roots if they get too close? And if so, how close is too close?

Maybe I missed it, but did you say how often the misting nozzles would be on? Did you get a chance to think about my question regarding them washing down the roots? I was wondering if this would defeat the effects of dry fog, or maybe lessen the effects, since the roots would be getting less air.

I understand the redundancy idea. Along those lines I was thinking about frequent power outages (something about being at the end of the line), and of course I can't have my roots sitting in nothing but air for 8 hours. To solve that and other issues I thought of being able to adjust the level of the reservoir that the roots are in. I would keep only the bottom inch or 2 of roots in water at all times. There is another reservoir so that the root res can recirculate, oh I don't know, maybe for 2 minutes out of every 15. Of course there would be air stones in both, and probably a powerhead in the 2nd res. So what do you think of that redundancy idea? The large tap roots have all the nutrients they want, yet the others never get washed down and should grow to be very fine and hairy.

What did you think of my test. The container filled up pretty well, but maybe I should use 2 units in my veg res and a 3-head unit in my flower res. It would be great though if I could get away with 1 unit in veg and 2 in flower.

Anyways, I certainly appreciate you stopping by. Anything you choose to answer or talk about would be wonderful.

[Opie Yutts]

Doubt that a small voltage drop would cause 'em to drop out of oscillation.
Don't know enough about how they work, yet, to guess if it would affect droplet size.

Thanks Weeze, maybe I see another test coming.

[Weezard]

De nada.
I owe ya for my education.

About burning the roots.
I have a fogger in my koi pond.
When the Lilly pads float across the emitter it burns track in them.
Here's a snap of a lilly pad that got in it's way.:(
Sliced it like a laser.

Does not seem to bother the guppies.:)
Bet the little stoners are suckin' on the blue lotus rootlets.:D

Mebee try a bold experiment.
Finger dat fogger!
If you finger no like, roots no like.

Keep talkin' to yo'sef.
Lotta lurkers listnin'.:)

Regards

WZ

[Opie Yutts]

Thanks for that photo, and wow, I didn't realize the damage it could do. Maybe I'm a sissy but I've been reluctant to stick my finger near the transducer. People say it hurts, but what is pain anyway? Is it real? It's just electrical impulses. That can't be real horrible. Besides, pain is such a rush. It let's you know you're alive. I was certainly alive when I slid the throttle cable under my thumbnail. OK, so back to work on the weed guard for my fogger.

[Opie Yutts]

mmmm, Blue Lotis. Have you consumed that perfectly legal plant?

[oldmac]

Opie;

Really nice experiment! For only a single head unit you got pretty good output. You could have saved your self some "rube goldberg" building of a float if you bought a bouy. Consider it when you go to a three head unit, get it with the bouy, it gives you automatic water depth for the transducer. Which you should change to the teflon coated ones, they do not clog up so easy.

Most builders of pond foggers, that use a resevoir, say that the fog tends "lay" on the water and most use some sort of fan to push or pull the fog to the top of the lid. I considered the use of plastic tube hooked to a vacum pump to raise it.

As to my system, and the possible wash down issue, we need to looked at what others have come up with. The Dominaero as a grow machine uses both aeroponic spiners and 3 head pond fogger for ultra-sonic fog. The Ultra Mist applied to their grow system is an Ebb & Flow with a three head ultra-sonic fog pumped in separately. No one is really using ultra-sonic fog on it's own.
I simply made my reduntant system one notch down the evolution chain to aeroponics (pressure mister system).

The pressure mister system on my machine is calculated to run 3-6 seconds (every 1/2hr). The actual time is dependent on the time it takes to pressurize the sytem after turn on. Most of these systems are set-up as "pressurized" systems and the flow to the nozzles is controlled by soleniod, where I'm using the "turn the pump on" method.

The root guards are "inlet suction spa covers" and I used them because I'm inroducing fog towards the bottom of the grow tray, plus they looked so cool.

[oldmac]

Hey WZ,

I can't believe what the pond fogger can do to the water lillies!

Even better idea on how to test the temp of that sucka'.
That is really an issue I had not considered with pond foggers.

[MadSativa]

Those nutramist foggers are crap, I bought one for some house plants, and it worked great, till the water ran low, It has a sensor that is supposed to shut it off when this happens. However it did not and it burnt out. I boaught the cheap ones off of ebay for 15 bucks each and those still work. The nutramist was like 45 dollars and it broke ina week or so and they didnt wana exchange it or nuthin. I would say go with the cheaper versions that have replacement parts and stuff. Ebay hass em for realy cheap.....


And the foggers ocilate at sub sonic speeds that is what does the dsamage not temperature, do not stick your finger in the disk, it is irratating then hurts then painfull. Basicaly you are demoliculizing your finger so dont do it, I know some one who held his finger in ther for a long time, now he has no feeling in that finger forever..

[Weezard]

Those nutramist foggers are crap, I bought one for some house plants, and it worked great, till the water ran low, It has a sensor that is supposed to shut it off when this happens. However it did not and it burnt out. I boaught the cheap ones off of ebay for 15 bucks each and those still work. The nutramist was like 45 dollars and it broke ina week or so and they didnt wana exchange it or nuthin. I would say go with the cheaper versions that have replacement parts and stuff. Ebay hass em for realy cheap.....


And the foggers ocilate at sub sonic speeds that is what does the dsamage not temperature, do not stick your finger in the disk, it is irratating then hurts then painfull. Basicaly you are demoliculizing your finger so dont do it, I know some one who held his finger in ther for a long time, now he has no feeling in that finger forever..

I'm sure you meant to type supersonic.
And, the "Poke 'em witta finger", was a joke of course.
Dat sucker would emulsify your manual digit!

Was about to buy one till I read your post.
$45?! :wtf:!

But, as he said earlier. The El-cheapos droplet size exceeds 5 microns.
Above 5 microns I'd save some dough and use a mister instead.
They clog on occasion, but they don't fry.:)

For me, this is all still theory.
In practice, I just drop in 2 airstones and a small, submarine, water pump in a wastebasket.
Don't even use a mister with the Bubbaponics units.
Just jam the 1/4" water hoses in the sides of the net-pot and let 'er drip.
Works well, so far...
When I get a few jars of meds ahead, I'll work on points for style.;)

Thanks for the input, made me think.

Weezard

"In theory, theory and practice are the same.
In practice, they are not!"

[Weezard]

mmmm, Blue Lotis. Have you consumed that perfectly legal plant?


Perfectly.

:abduct:

'Zard

[Opie Yutts]

I put one fog unit in my 29 gal, 16" tall container that I intend to use for my budding res. As I feared, the fog would not rise to the top. It would only rise about an inch or 2 above the surface of the water, even after 90 minutes. Dad gummit. So I put in another fogger. Same thing, with perhaps the level 1/2 inch higher and a slightly denser fog, but barely any noticeable difference. I thought that maybe if they run a long time they will eventually fill up a big container. No such luck. I turned off the foggers to see how long it takes for the fog do dissipate, or disappear, and it was much faster than I expected. In this tub the fog was gone in about 15 seconds. That's why the container will never fill to the top.

The fog made it to the top of an 8 gallon container but it wasn't very dense at the top. Seeing the very small amount of change from doubling the output, I'm certain that the fog won't rise to the top, even with a 3 head unit, and maybe not even with a 6 or 10 head unit.

So I walked a couple feet and noticed how violently the fog swirled around in the container from the slight change in air flow, and good size wisps made it to the top. It was then it struck me that a fan is going to be the key if I don't want to buy a 20-head unit. I put a short hose over the top and gently blew through the other end, and wallah - the tub filled with fog. I also tested if the action from an air stone would circulate the fog enough, but there was barely any change.

So now I'm either going to make a separate pumping machine like the Nutramist ones, or cut a hole in the middle of the lid and have a small computer fan blow straight down. The pumping machine would solve the heat issue, but I'm not real worried about that after testing in a bigger reservoir. The water temp did not fluctuate from 84.5 degrees, even when using 2 units.

So, the light. Should I just put a bit of black silicon tape over the red LED, or not worry about it affecting the roots? Another issue solved with a pumping machine.

The 2nd photo is after 1/2 hr, and the 3rd is using 2 foggers, after the few seconds it took for my camera to turn on after blowing through the tube. The fog was actually a little thicker near the top when I blew.

[Opie Yutts]

You could have saved your self some "rube goldberg" building of a float if you bought a bouy. Consider it when you go to a three head unit, get it with the bouy, it gives you automatic water depth for the transducer. Which you should change to the teflon coated ones, they do not clog up so easy.

Yeah, those floats from mainlandmart are about $10 plus shipping. I know I'm going to order more fogging stuff so I may consider it, but shhhh, my wife told me not to spend any more money for awhile. And you know, that styrofoam is free.

And for the disks, I'm using these from nutramist. I know the ones at fogponics are cheaper (price going up soon), but the nutramist ones are the only ones I can find that say something like: Our aeroponic foggers offer the exclusive benefit of having teflon coated ultrasonic transducers, specifically designed for use with dissolved nutrient solutions, so they help prevent salt buildup which causes premature failure. Do you know if the fogponics disks are essentially the same thing as the nutramist ones? Both are teflon coated.

[Opie Yutts]

Most builders of pond foggers, that use a resevoir, say that the fog tends "lay" on the water

So true. I've noticed most designs have the root res fairly shallow and spread out, but that won't work for what I'm trying.

[Opie Yutts]

Those nutramist foggers are crap, I bought one for some house plants, and it worked great, till the water ran low, It has a sensor that is supposed to shut it off when this happens. However it did not and it burnt out.

I hope you just happened to get a lemon. I've never heard of the sensor failing on any brand before. That's unfortunate they wouldn't replace it. Mine have been working great so far. I've pulled them out a few times to see if they shut off properly. So far so good. And they don't get much cheaper than $24.95 that I can find, even on Ebay.

That's good info about the guys finger. Ouch.

[Weezard]

I hope you just happened to get a lemon. I've never heard of the sensor failing on any brand before. That's unfortunate they wouldn't replace it. Mine have been working great so far. I've pulled them out a few times to see if they shut off properly. So far so good. And they don't get much cheaper than $24.95 that I can find, even on Ebay.

That's good info about the guys finger. Ouch.


Have you tried setting a 3"netpot upside down over the emitter to protect the roots?

Cheap n easy
WZ

[Opie Yutts]

I thought about that, but roots grow through net pots. I'm thinking something like tupperware or yogurt container upside down over the fogger. It would have to be just barely above the water, but then seems like roots would still get to it. Hmmm, maybe if it was real wide the roots would have to grow a long ways to get around it, or I know, I'll make a pumping machine like the Nutramist ones.

[Weezard]

I thought about that, but roots grow through net pots. I'm thinking something like tupperware or yogurt container upside down over the fogger. It would have to be just barely above the water, but then seems like roots would still get to it. Hmmm, maybe if it was real wide the roots would have to grow a long ways to get around it, or I know, I'll make a pumping machine like the Nutramist ones.

Aloha, OY

I've seen the "fog fountain" units for living room displays.
Looks like the fog spills over the edge for the same reason it won't fill a tall tub,
gravity.

Perhaps you can avoid root troubles by generating the mist in a smaller container, and "spill" it into the root tub.
Then, as it condenses, pump it back up.

Food for thought?

Best
Zard

[Opie Yutts]

hmmm, maybe.

[Opie Yutts]

Iâ??m leaning toward having 2 separate pumping units. I built one to test a few things. This is not my dream pumper by any means, and the rules of the subproject stated that I must use materials and tools that I already had laying around. This is only for testing purposes, and my real ones will be smaller, have no air leaks, and be more â??professional-lookingâ?�.

Unlike the Frappa and Nutramist, there is not a separate reservoir. My real ones will have separate reservoirs, and at least one of them will probably have quick connect fittings and an extra smaller reservoir for foliar feeding. The flexible hose makes it easy to direct the flow of fog wherever you want it, like into the foliage. Fog makes the best foliar feed because unlike misting, it penetrates all areas of the canopy. One nice thing about being self contained is you can easily move this around. It has a handle, and you can carry it from room to room. Take off the hose and set it in the middle of a grow for foliar feeding.

I thought Iâ??d see how it ran without sealing the fittings, and was planning on having to do that later. However I can see no fog escaping from the leaks around the hose or pipe, or from under the lid, which I just sat loosely on the bucket. Iâ??m guessing the fog decided to take the path of least resistance, which was through the biggest hole (the one in the hose).

Iâ??ve ordered several of each of these:

Jenson variable AC adapter â?? 5.99 (http://www.thenerds.net/JENSEN.300mAh_Universal_AC_Adapter.JEN300.html)
Voltage from 3 to 12 volts to vary the fan speed. 300 mAh will drive 2 fans. The replacement fan controller from Nutramist is $20.
Antec 80mm case fan â?? 6.99 (http://www.thenerds.net/ANTEC.Antec_Small_Case_Fan.SMALLFAN80MM.html)
The Nutramist replacement fans are 22 cfm and $20, This is 34 cfm, and the only small one I can find that has a 3 year warrantee.
Mini float valve â?? 10.08 (http://www.thevalveshop.com/menu/manual/kerick/minifloat.html)
This will keep the proper level in the fog pumper using gravity feed. Nutramist doesnâ??t offer a replacement float valve because they donâ??t want you building your own fog pumper.

This quickie fogger works great, and I was pleasantly surprised at how well it filled up my 29 gal container in about 15 seconds. Notice the fine drops it deposited on my arm hairs after 15 seconds. Imagine this on root hairs. Itâ??s weird that the dry fog makes moisture collect on my hairs but not my hand. Iâ??m still trying to decide if I should use 2 foggers (http://www.futuregarden.com/cgi-bin/shop/70-1048.html) like in this test, or if I should get the 3-head unit (http://www.futuregarden.com/cgi-bin/shop/70-1049.html) for my flowering res. I guess I need more testing on actual roots to see how long it takes to moisten them, and how long they stay moist after the fog pump is turned off.

For this test fogger Iâ??m using a 120V computer fan from Radio Shack, which I think was about $15. I have no speed/voltage controller, but the flow seems fine and I see no need to reduce it. The Styrofoam for the float and the laundry detergent bucket are free, and the ABS pipe and 1â?� tubing are less than $5. So for $70 Iâ??ve got something that works about as well as the $370 Nutramist pumper (http://www.futuregarden.com/cgi-bin/shop/50-3310.html). For $25 more I could add a 3rd fog head and have the same or better output. Iâ??ll be happy to answer any questions on construction, but for now Iâ??ll let the pictures do the rest of the talking.

[Opie Yutts]

...

[Weezard]

Thanks for this, OY:thumbsup:

I can't help but think that the world is, indeed, a magical dimension.

I mean, people are growing weed, in clouds!
How :cool::cool::cool: is that?!

Amazedly,
Weeze

[Opie Yutts]

That's a pretty good way of putting it. Growing in clouds. That's cool, I like it. How is it you ask? Well clouds are collections of moisture, which roots love and need of course. I think you've given me an idea for the title of my fogging log.

If anyone is interested in solubility issues, I emailed Dutch Master and quickly got an answer. They make the best affordable nutrients and I really wanted to use them when I get my foggers set up.

Thank you for your enquiry regarding Dutch Master. In answer to your
response the Dutch Master GOLD series is 100% soluble and is in fact the
nutrient of choice for growers in Aeroponic systems due to the purity of
ingredients used. All Dutch Master products are made using British
Pharmaceutical ingredients or better to ensure purity of the highest
level. In addition all Dutch Master products pass through a 0.5 micron
mesh final filter at the bottling stage to ensure the ultimate in
purity. I am sure that you are going to be amazed at what GOLD can do
for your garden! I hope this helps!

I got the ac adapters and fans today, but haven't had a chance to hook them up yet. Does anyone know how to hook up 3 fan wires to 2 wires supplying voltage? I have a white, black and red from the fan. On the connector the white is marked "2510", the black is marked with an arrow and "17", and the red is marked "KSP". It's been what?, 30 years since my electronics class, but I don't remember anything that might help. I well I bought extras, so I guess I could blow one up. So far I am very happy with thenerds.net. Good prices, good selection, fast shipping.

[Weezard]

Aloha OY

Glad you liked it, it's yours.
(forgot to copyright it.:D)

You said;
"Does anyone know how to hook up 3 fan wires to 2 wires supplying voltage? I have a white, black and red from the fan. "

I usually use the red and black though it does depend on the manufacurer, (Standards arent'):)
The third wire is usually a speed sensor.
Won't hurt anything to cut all three and touch two at a time
to your 12V supply until it spins the way you want.

Best
WZ

[Weezard]

"I think you've given me an idea for the title of my fogging log."

Sure beats, All Fogged-up. :D

Weeze.

[Opie Yutts]

You were right Weeze, black and red. The ac converter runs 2 fans fine, but they do slow slightly from when just one is hooked up.

[Weezard]

You were right Weeze, black and red. The ac converter runs 2 fans fine, but they do slow slightly from when just one is hooked up.

A standard that was.
Will wonders never cease?:D

If slower speed works for you, I saw an idea 'round here that tickled me.
Guy had 1 12V supply and 2 fans.
Didn't need high CFM so he wired them in series.
Got 6V each at about half the current.
Makes the wallwart run cooler too.
Just my 40% of a nickle.

Weeze

[Weezard]

Howzit? Ya ol' acorn snuffler.:)

Where exactly is your new fogging log?:D
Or, is all this time dilation just makin' it seem like weeks?
Not that I'm all that unhappy with the DWC.
But...
You know how much I love to,:tin foil hat::detective1::weedpoke:.
My last grow is winding-up in a couple weeks.
Got about 2 sq. ft. to futz around with.

Have added a gallon jug with a hose attached as an automagic "top-off"
Mounted the jug upside down on the wall so the hose ends where I want my water level in the bucket.
Works a treat!:cool:
Now I just look at the jug as a quick check on transpiration.
Since the water level is constant, I won't need a float.
Can attach the fogger in the corner of a tub and screen it from roots.

Of course, I'm waiting for someone else, (that would be you), to brave the slings and arrows of innovation for me.;)

I can do a lot of things whole-assed, but waiting is not one of them.
Hell, if I had any patience, I'd have a white coat and a 6 figure income.;)


Aloha nui
Weeze (Still rooting about on the forest floor)

[Opie Yutts]

Well I wouldn't wait around on me for very long. It is going to happen for me, but not in the next few days. I am slowly acquiring everything I need for my 3rd grow room remodel, which will include fogging. I've got a lot of commitments otherwise as well. I wish I had a time machine.

Got pictures of your top off contraption?

[Weezard]

To a theater near you.
Unabashed, uncensored, exclusive photos!

Now, where the hell did I put that round tuit?

Cereally it's Grrreeaate!:D
Snaps soon, still ironing out da bugs.


WZ

[SnSstealth]

Intense shit...Intrigued I be. I am diggin the growing in the clouds concept...Ill be watching you 2:greenthumb:
whiskeytango

[Weezard]

Well I wouldn't wait around on me for very long. It is going to happen for me, but not in the next few days. I am slowly acquiring everything I need for my 3rd grow room remodel, which will include fogging. I've got a lot of commitments otherwise as well. I wish I had a time machine.

Got pictures of your top off contraption?

The man wants pictures.
Then pictures he shall have.

It's quite simple really.

The pipe sits on the bottom for support.
I cut a notch where I want my water level.
Any size container will do. I chose this size so an air leak won't cause an overflow of my 5 gal. bucket
Keep it as close to the top of the bucket as you can.
Don't want to crowd the girls.
And if you keep it short, a failure of the quick disconnect won't dump enough water raise the level much.

Previously had 1/4" clear plastic tube running up the side of the bucket for checking water level.
But, it rapidly gets nasty and hard to read, (I'm frikkin' old.:))
This tells me at a glance, how much transpiration/evaporation is happening.
That's a good indicator for plant health and needs.
That, and I won't need to float the mister.:)

Plan to attach a second pipe that runs to the bottom and Ls out the side near the top. That should make nute change a breeze.
I'll pump out the old, and, with the aid of second disconnect fitting and a funnel, just pour in the new.
Then plug in a bubba-jug and go find something to do with the spare time I now have.;)


Hey!
New acronym; GITC.
Come in handy for confusing noobs:D
Won't be long before I'm "Growing In The Clouds" too.

Thanks Opie
Weezard

[Opie Yutts]

Thanks Weeze, looking forward to seeing it up and going with plants and all.

[Weezard]

Thanks Weeze, looking forward to seeing it up and going with plants and all.

There was an odd post on the revenge of the leds thread that sent me a wiki-ing, and I found this;

"Cannabis was also known to the ancient Assyrians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Assyrian_people), who discovered its psychoactive properties through the Aryans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryans).[26] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marijuana#cite_note-25) Using it in some religious ceremonies, they called it qunubu (meaning "way to produce smoke"), a probable origin of the modern word 'Cannabis'.[27] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marijuana#cite_note-26) Cannabis was also introduced by the Aryans to the Scythians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythia) and Thracians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thracians)/Dacians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dacia), whose shamans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamanism) (the kapnobatai (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kapnobatai&action=edit&redlink=1)â??â??those who walk on smoke/cloudsâ?�) burned cannabis flowers to induce a state of trance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trance)."

Qunubu, who knew?!
So, now ya know.:)

Aloha,
Weeze

[ben350n]

i have been reading this post, and i think i might have a solution, both for the fogger heat problem and the what fogger to get for the best money problem. what if you had, say, a 5 gallon bucket as a dedicated reservoir with your fogger and your nutrient solution in it, connected at the top of the bucket with say, 1" pvc, to the container that has your plants? you wouldn't have to top off the res that often, and it would eliminate the heat problem. i have also run across this 5-head ultrasonic fogger for around 100 bucks. the droplets are guaranteed <5 microns, the page says it doesn't clog as long as the nutrients are 100% water soluble, and it is much cheaper than a nutramist fogger. i would think 5 heads would produce plenty of nutreinty fog. it even comes with a plastic floaty ring to keep it submerged in the correct depth of water. anyway, here is a link.


Alpine FG201R Super Power Pond Fogger includes floating ring - Lawn & Garden - GrabCart Compare and Buy Home & Garden Products (http://www.grabcart.com/product/homegarden/lawn/unbeatablesaleac114/Alpine-FG201R-Super-Power-Pond-Fogger-includes-floating-ring)


hope it helps! :jointsmile:

[Weezard]

Aloha, Opie,

Any progress?


Weeze

[foggyman]

hi there....

i put a 90ml single outlet fogger at the end of my 20L nft tray(where the water returns back to the resevoire...

i ran this fogger from week two of veg... i ran it for 24 hrs for one week and the roots exploded. seriousely i have never seen root growth like it...

trouble was i didnt give the roots any time to breath. i was getting funny weird problems which at first associated with overwatering.... i removed the fogger but things didnt get any better. iv found out it was a micronutrient defficiency caused by the water company.

so... the fogger is back in the res

i have now chnaged to one miniut on and one miniut off....

i have added a 25mm water proof chipset cooling fan...it pulls the fog out of the res and blows it back into the res water.. this seems to condense the fog back into water and so there are no nute/water losses while still clearing the root zone in seconds. one miniut off one miniut on with a 4 second for fog fill and a 6 seconds empty time..

i havent got the time and money to do the research as i would like...
side by side comparison of feeding scheduals etc..

your systems sounds the nutts....

im going back over this post with a fine tooth comb..

peace out :rastasmoke:

[disrupt86]

u guys sed your having problems getting the auctual fog into your growing chambers? i wonder if u got, sayyyy a dual outlet air fish tank pump and sealed up the container were the fogger is with duct tape,drill a small hole into the fogger rez and had a 1/2 or 1 inch pipe plumbed into your grow chamber if it would be enough to propell the fog.i too have been thinking about trying out fog ponics but i have this weird fear that the rez will run outa water and that the fogger will get super hot and burn the house down....

[oldmac]

This had been a great thread, I'm sorta glad it got bumped. I realized that I miss OpieYutts, he hasn't posted here in quite awhile.

The problem with using pond foggers is the fog likes to lay on the water. On a system I built awhile back I used a 5 head pond fogger in a 5 gallon bucket, used a square pce of plastic inside to act as a splash shield. Put two 1 1/2" holes in the bucket lid, 1 for a hose out and the other with a fan blowing into the bucket. It works very well and the people using it are real happy, except for having to clean and or replace the transducer discs regularly. :(

There are some much better foggers out there, but not as inexpensive. :)

I gotta try to find Opie.

[Jollyrancher]

Here is a clone after one week.

DRIP IS DEAD! :thumbsup:

Make sure you have a spare unit (in case of unit or transformer burnout).

[420barista]

Opie I hope to see you back here soon.

My Idea was this. I got a 1 head fogger with a teflon coated disc and a float and I've been doing a bit of research.

Someone b4 mentioned using a 5 gal bucket. I am thinking a 3 gal bucket with a spout lid.

Attach a hose of some sort to the spout to direct where you want the fog to go to. and mount on the lid opposite side of the spout a small ac fan or 2 depending on how much airflow is needed.

I saw some buckets and lids with spout on a website for us plastics. and pretty inexpensive 3 gal bucket in black and black lid to fit with a spout. small ac fan or 2 from radioshack.

My Plan is this first for clones and after they root use the setup to foliar feed the ladies.

[Horsemanrocks]

Reviving this discussion does present an opportunity to quiz oldmac or others who can point me in the right direction though.

Oldmac posted on page one:
The proposed schedule is Frapa fogger 10 mins on (@10min after the hour and 1/2 hr) every 30 mins. 24 hrs a day, don't want roots to dry out during dark period, even if they are not feeding.
Mister nozzles 3-5 seconds every half hour(on the hour and 1/2 hr) on photocell=only when lights are on. Photocell in cycle timer syncs with other timer, when lights come on.

So for example start at 7:00pm lights come on, first event is mister pump for 3-5sec. !0 mins later Frapa starts, runs 10mins and stops. 7:30 mister pump, 10 mins later etc etc.

OMâ?¦.this newb needs a little more explanation on the reasoning behind the timing of foggers and misters (or in my caseâ?¦â?¦fogger and bubbler). In my uneducated imagination I thought that the fogger would be running all the time. However timed cycles with help with controlling heat generated by the fogger. (RH can be pretty low here). The fogger that Iâ??ve chosen is a little one disc cheapoâ?¦.but the fog feels awful dry to me (donâ??t know if that makes it 5 micron or not)

Also from another thread that youâ??re involved in: What ratio of fogging to bubbling would you imagine to be appropriate to avoid the acclimation time when I move my clones down the line to the pre-veg bubbler. I would like to begin with a plan in mind. Beyond that all I can do is watch the root development and hope that I guess right from there.

Accepting all opinions,
HMR

[Nikkid1111]

...
I know this thread is almost 2 yrs old but this nutramist knock off is the $#!+. hey Opi Yutts if your still on this forum. do you think your unit will blow enough fog to fill a 3x3 tray?