4 pigs killed by growers

[nomorenarcs]

4 Mounties killed at Alberta drug site
Last Updated Thu, 03 Mar 2005 19:55:02 EST
CBC News
MAYERTHORPE, ALTA. - Four RCMP officers died Thursday when a man with a high-powered rifle began shooting during an investigation into a marijuana grow operation in northwestern Alberta.

"It's my sad duty to inform you that four RCMP officers, four brave young members have been killed in the line of duty," RCMP Assistant Commissioner Bill Sweeney told reporters at a late-afternoon news briefing.


The Quonset hut that police suspect held the marijuana growing operation in Rochfort Bridge, Alta.
In Canadian police terms, said Sweeney, "You'd have to go back to 1885, to the Northwest Rebellion, to have a loss of this magnitude. It's devastating."

Police said a fifth person described as "a male suspect" had been found dead at the scene of the crime, a farm near the hamlet of Rochfort Bridge.

The suspect was known to police, said Cpl. Wayne Oakes.

He added that a number of police officers had been guarding the scene since the night before as part of an investigation into illegal marijuana growing and stolen property.

Two of the dead officers had been among the team who were at the Quonset hut overnight, Oakes said.

Rochfort Bridge is located near Mayerthorpe, a town of 1,700 where the RCMP detachment is based, about 130 kilometres northwest of Edmonton.

Three of the dead officers were members of the Mayerthorpe detachment and the fourth was from the RCMP's Whitecourt detachment.


News vehicles were kept away from the scene through the day while police investigated.
Family members of the slain officers began arriving at the Mayerthorpe detachment Thursday afternoon, some of them weeping as they were escorted into the building by uniformed Mounties.

Officers stopped responding to radio calls

Earlier in the day, Solicitor General Harvey Cenaiko told CBC News that details of the trouble that broke out at about 10 a.m. Tuesday morning were sketchy.

"As far as we know, there's four officers not responding to their radios, so there is an indication that something is serious here," Cenaiko said.

"[The situation] is still active and they have a number of resources that are on scene or going to the scene."



Sgt. Rick Oncescu, who is with the RCMP in Calgary, said two SWAT teams were called to the area Thursday morning.

A military spokesman said about 20 soldiers and two armoured vehicles were sent to the area after police called for military assistance at about midday.

George Vanderburg, the provincial politician who represents the area, says he and Cenaiko were briefed on the situation around midday Thursday.

He could not provide further details except to say it was a "very serious and very tragic" situation.

[Rarrr]

LOL speaking of animals dieing due to drugs there was a story i heard not too long ago about sheep that kept dieing in this particular feild. The farmers couldnt figure it out until they got an expert in to test the surrounding flora and they found that all this particular grass/plant that the sheep were eating had very high doeses of DMT in it and that was what was killing the sheep hahaha :D

[Rarrr]

sorry for double posting but they was pretty insensitive of me. Apologies to anyone offended

[ermitonto]

Well, I'm not shedding any tears. If you risk your life to stop people from doing something harmless that makes them happy, I don't want you on my planet with me.

[LilRedDevil]

Hey I hate cops at times too! Just don't wish anyone dead! IMO most cops probably would want pot to be legal, I'm sure they think it's a real pain in the ass busting people over pot!

[kyle]

I for one won't lose any sleep. They took the job and it just so happens the guy they we're destined to bust was destined to end their lives. Such is the way of life, it's a shitter.

[ermitonto]

IMO most cops probably would want pot to be legal, I'm sure they think it's a real pain in the ass busting people over pot!

Maybe in Canada, but not here in the Fourth Reich-- I mean, America.

[nomorenarcs]

This is going to fuck up legalization in canada, big time. I dont think 4 cops have ever been killed at once in canadas history. There are going to be some fucking pissed off pigs tommorow. I wouldnt be surprised if they did some crazy shit like shutting down the seed banks or cannabis cafes

[juggalo420]

well a cop who doesnt mind his neck and fucks with people knows that they may be fuckin with the type of people who wont take any bullshit.

[fatty lumps]

This is all over the news here. Mayerthorpe is only an hor and a half drive from me.

[koshea]

lol 4 cops died and its the worst thing in canadian history since 1885?

my question is how did one man kill 4 cops

canadians need help...lol

[nomorenarcs]

lol 4 cops died and its the worst thing in canadian history since 1885?


Um no its just the most cops who have died since 1885.




my question is how did one man kill 4 cops


With 4 bullets?

[juggalo420]

lol 4 cops died and its the worst thing in canadian history since 1885?


Um no its just the most cops who have died since 1885.




my question is how did one man kill 4 cops


With 4 bullets?
no with a single magic bullet.

im having entirely to much fun thinking about dead cops, morbid i know.

[koshea]

idiot, what i ment was there is 4 cops, how does he kill all 4 before one reacts


i guess thats canada for you..lol

[Rarrr]

the shooter asked them all to line up nicely whiel he shot them

[LilRedDevil]

idiot, what i ment was there is 4 cops, how does he kill all 4 before one reacts


i guess thats canada for you..lol

:mad: Up yours!

[juggalo420]

idiot, what i ment was there is 4 cops, how does he kill all 4 before one reacts


i guess thats canada for you..lol
naw, thats all police for you. i like my neighbor to the north (aka canada), it can act a little gay once in a while but at least it has a more sensible drug policy, free health care, and doesnt bomb countrys full of brown people as a policy.

[Mexicanhomeboy]

if mj was legal this wouldnt happen... wat sucks is that now ne congressmen or politicians thinking about supporting pot legalization will not want it legal now, well thats the life of a cop, they know they can diee at ne time or place, so this should be a wake uo call to cops, pot users can fuck with them too, i feel sorry for the family and friends of the dead people, but the cops shouldve thought about their friends and family b4 they became cops

[nomorenarcs]

idiot, what i ment was there is 4 cops, how does he kill all 4 before one reacts


i guess thats canada for you..lol



Wow you are quick one. He hid sniper style and they didnt know where he was shooting from. What are you? From texas or something?

[4252]

I wouldn't be so smug; I think this does mean more problems for peace loving people who just want to get stoned and be left alone. The anti-marijuana side will have one more, really big example to point at in their campaign to defame pot smokers. This was a setback for anyone who wants to see more tolerance toward people like us, make no mistake.

The guy who shot the four mounties, if that's really what happened, obviously had a screw loose. Even professional criminals know better than to attack LEOs, it just brings the full weight of the law down on them, and no one with any brains would want that. No matter what the real reasons are for this morons actions; psychosis, brain tumor, illusion of self defense, the response is sure to be "See? Pot smokers are violent and they go around killing people".

Where did this jerk get the idea that shooting somebody was going to him any good? He was no freedom fighter, he was a dumb asshole, or at best someone in need psychiatric care.

42

[sugarmagnolia]

^Agreed.

I thought potheads weren't supposed to be violent. that is very sad. And it is a very sick title for this thread. When someone dies you can not call them a pig. Especially when they are killed by a person that belongs to our sort of community. They were cops, not pigs. The only pigs are the government. The cops are the bitches of the pigs. they aren't the pigs.

[nomorenarcs]

They ones who beat me up when i was drunk were actually unsung heros. Same as the ones who anally rape hookers in dark alley ways. I thank god every night they are out there stealing weed and shooting black people in the back. Without them who would drunken female drivers get blow in order to get off scot free?
God bless you heros

[juggalo420]

yeah fuck the police, they need to worry about real crime, deal with rapes and murders and thefts, grab my nuts searching for a little bit of pot and acting like your a tuff guy cause you have a badge and a gun you got whats coming.

[LilRedDevil]

They ones who beat me up when i was drunk were actually unsung heros. Same as the ones who anally rape hookers in dark alley ways. I thank god every night they are out there stealing weed and shooting black people in the back. Without them who would drunken female drivers get blow in order to get off scot free?
God bless you heros

Yeppers there are assbag cops, assbag carpenters, assbag doctors, assbag pot smokers. So they still did not deserve this I mean WTF! You all think your bad ass! Give me a break most of you "die cop die" types think your big fucking time! :rolleyes:

Smoke a joint a chill out! :D

[sawleaf]

idiot, what i ment was there is 4 cops, how does he kill all 4 before one reacts


i guess thats canada for you..lol

It's called marksmanship.

[Reefer Rogue]

i blame will smith

[slipnslide087]

QUOTE: "naw, thats all police for you. i like my neighbor to the north (aka canada), it can act a little gay once in a while but at least it has a more sensible drug policy, free health care, and doesnt bomb countrys full of brown people as a policy."


last time i checked canadas healthcare was more fucked up than ours.

[slipnslide087]

but thats about it.

[Reefer Rogue]

i gotta disagree, health care in the states costs so much money its ridiculous. especially if you don't have insurance. I'd rather live in a country that has free health care anyday, which is why i do.

[slipnslide087]

yeah.....i thought something was fucke dup about like.....transplants or something. like you sit on a list for yrs. us still sucks but i thought canada was worse.

[phillykid420]

Canada has the European model of socialism, which I'm not a fan of. It's not like your healthcare in Canada is truly free, you pay for it with higher tax rates. So it's better to go to Canada if you know you're going to have a crappy job or be a homeless bum. If you're educated, and have a good job all that happens is you end up paying for the healthcare of every bum in the country. And last I checked Canada has a fairly high unemployment rate (at least in some areas).
In the US if you have a decent salaried position, you'll get health care through your employer, so you basically get nearly free health insurance and you get to take home a bigger portion of the money YOU earned so you can spend it on what you want rather than be forced to pay for the healthcare of some bum who can't get a job. Nothing is ever truly free.

But I do feel bad for the cops. These jerks are giving stoners a bad name and their actions are going to result in more unfavorable scrutiny into the mj legalization arena. Some cops are good, some are bad. I've known a few cops and a sheriff. They were in my martial arts class. Kinda funny considering they had to take orders from me during class even though they were cops and about 30 yrs older than me, I was a higher rank. But they were nice guys with nice families and I wouldn't wish them any ill will. I feel bad for these cops and their families just as I feel bad for the people who were victims of bad cops, I feel bad for the cops who are victims of bad stoners.

peace

[LilRedDevil]

I agree with almost everything you said about the cops! Only that

"I feel bad for the cops who are victims of bad stoners"

I am throwing a guess out when I say, I am sure that this is far more than some stoners, who smoked a few fat one's, this is no doubt a gang related killing, we will hear much more about this story!

And BTW....I don't want this to turn into a debate about Canada but.... You said...

"In the US if you have a decent salaried position, you'll get health care through your employer"

Canadian employers give you health & dental here as well! You just don't need a salaried position! Check your facts and I will be happy to come debate Canada, it is a great country to live in! And smoke some great weed! So before you all come down on Canada come down to Canada, smoke a joint and stop knocking my country!

Canada is a peace lovin country....get over it!

[slipnslide087]

dude i have nothing against canada sorry if it came off that way. i plan on maybe moving out of the us....it depends what happens over the next 4-6 yrs though.

[LilRedDevil]

dude i have nothing against canada sorry if it came off that way. i plan on maybe moving out of the us....it depends what happens over the next 4-6 yrs though.

My quote was from Phillykids post! I was not really offened, I don't care what anyone thinks of Canada, I LOVE IT! :D

[slipnslide087]

thats the spirit

[phillykid420]

Yeah you're probably right about those guys, probably far more going on than just weed, but you know how they'll be labeled right?

About Canada, sorry if you took my post to be offensive. I was arguing about how others are saying health care is so expensive in the US and all. My aunt lives in Canada and I've been there many times. As I see it NOTHING is ever free. Social Security in the States isn't free because it comes outta tax dollars and it's people like you and me who pay tax. I prefer the method of economics that lets me decide what I want to do with my own hard earned money. If I get a good education and work hard I don't think I should have to be responsible for those who don't. And if I'm in a hard situation, I see it as my fault and I should be able to take care of myself. I'm my own responsibility and nobody else's.

This is more of a capitalist model, the model the US follows (and not enough might I add). Canada does follow a socialist model similar to many countries in Europe where there are higher taxes but the government gives you more things. Like you guys don't have to pay for college whereas we do have to pay for our higher education. If everyone gets free healthcare in Canada then why do you need to have an employer give you healthcare....you already have it, but perhaps they give you better healthcare. But the taxes you pay with whatever job you have, a portion of that is going to have to pay for healthcare for those who don't have jobs. Otherwise where does the money come from?

Perhaps I'm defensive about the US because it's so popular for the entire world to hate on us when they do the same bullshit or they've done the same bullshit. The US can't exist like Canada, we have 10 times the population (roughly 270 million more people here than in Canada) so there will be some big differences. Canada also doesn't feel the need to have a strong military cause if someone messes with Canada the US will stomp them into the ground.

Personally I find the people in Toronto where my aunt lives to be very nice folk. And they keep their cities clean and nice unlike in the US where idiots feel the need to trash everything. Their drug policy is more sensible, and they seem to have much less racial tension than in the US. I also prefer their immigration policies. But I simply don't like Socialist governments, I don't want to be responsible for everyone else's bills, gimmie my tax dollars and let me decide how to use my own money, it's nobody else's business whether I decide to donate to charity or buy a plasma screen tv.

And this has nothing to do with Iraq, I'm guessing that's where the peace loving comment comes from. Whether we send troops to Iraq or not, doesn't really affect you guys up north. But it does sacrifice American lives and I think that in the long run the world is better off with a democratic middle east, but I'm not so sure that the price we Americans pay for it (the blood of our children, spouses, siblings, and friends) is going to be worth it. Afghanistan had a vote recently, Iraq had a better turnout than america and they braved mortor fire to vote, Lebanon recently tossed out the suppressive Syrian government, the palestinians had a vote. More and more people are taking the power into their own hands, and voting and I see that as a good thing.

I don't understand the ire of the rest of the world over this. We are the ones making sacrifices not them. We are the ones putting our folk in the line of fire. So Americans should be (and they are) speaking out against Bush's Iraq situation. We're the ones that should be the most pissed off cause we've lost the most. The only thing France, Germany and Russia lost was the ability to get oil at a price cheaper than OPEC would ever allow while propping up and aiding Saddam in circumventing the UN sanctions on Iraq, thus lining their pockets with the blood of the kurds and sunni muslims.

[nomorenarcs]

[QUOTE=phillykid420]Canada has the European model of socialism, which I'm not a fan of. It's not like your healthcare in Canada is truly free, you pay for it with higher tax rates. So it's better to go to Canada if you know you're going to have a crappy job or be a homeless bum.


In other words you have a good job and dont care about poor people. In fact you demonize them as what lazy bums? I guess you need someone to look down on, because everyone had the same chamces as you in life, right?





If you're educated, and have a good job all that happens is you end up paying for the healthcare of every bum in the country.


I would rather pay for poor people to see a doctor than pay to have bombs dropped on the 2rd world. My tax dollars dont kill muslim babies.





And last I checked Canada has a fairly high unemployment rate (at least in some areas).
In the US if you have a decent salaried position, you'll get health care through your employer, so you basically get nearly free health insurance and you get to take home a bigger portion of the money YOU earned so you can spend it on what you want rather than be forced to pay for the healthcare of some bum who can't get a job. Nothing is ever truly free.



Wow you are evil. So the people who work at wal mart or burger king deserve to die right? Not everyone has a good job. And someone has to work the shit jobs too. BTW your taxes arent that much lower. I would rather pay high taxes to make sure poor children get to see a doctor, its not their fault. But when you get right down to it its not their parents fault either. You are just greedy and selfish. I think its barbaric that you dont want poor people to be able to see a doctor. Anyway YOU need poor people. Poor unemplyed people fill new jobs, without unemployed people there would be zero economic growth.

You live in a bubble dude. So because YOU have a good job, everyone must have one too or they are lazy bum. Thats a pretty ignorant attitude. I just spent years in university living well below the poverty line, if i didnt have socialized health care i would have been fucked when i got sick. Sorry you consider me a lazy bum for having worked shitty mimimum wage jobs during university. My parents didnt help me at all, even with a place to live. I had no choice but to be poor, and it sure wasnt because i was lazy. And the people working macdonalds arent "happy" they have that job its all they can get. And trust me its a fucking hard job too.
Hating on the poor is just like racism sexism homophobia, but because you are a right winger i guess its ok to hate. Its part of your ideology

[nomorenarcs]

[QUOTE=phillykid420]

. I prefer the method of economics that lets me decide what I want to do with my own hard earned money.

I dont agree with that. I think you should have to join in to the public system.
Its like private schools, if you want to go to one fine, but u should still have to pay your taxes into the public system. If you want to pay out of your own pocket into the private school system as well, fine. Same with health care, i think you should have to still pay into it, and if you want to go to a private hospital, than it shoud cost extra. Opting out weakens the system over all.




If I get a good education and work hard I don't think I should have to be responsible for those who don't.


It isnt that you are responsible for them, its just basic human kidness. This may surprize you but many people are poor because they have fucked up diseases. Other people had upbringings that were staight up horror shows. It sint always their "fault" they are say drunks or crack heads.




And if I'm in a hard situation, I see it as my fault and I should be able to take care of myself. I'm my own responsibility and nobody else's.


How is it someones "fault" if they end up with cancer or in a whellchair and they cant work? I did a semester of school with a social work placement, you should go see who the poor really are, instead of relying on sterotypes of them being "lazy" or not responsible for themselves. Most people who are poor dont want to be, its not a choice.



This is more of a capitalist model, the model the US follows (and not enough might I add). Canada does follow a socialist model similar to many countries in Europe where there are higher taxes but the government gives you more things. Like you guys don't have to pay for college whereas we do have to pay for our higher education.


Education is not free in canada. Its subsidised, it was 5 grand canadian tutuion a year when i went there. I could never afford to go to school at harvard or yale. I think the only thing you should need to go to school is the brains. I bet there are lots of inner city kids in america who are smart enough to be doctors but never will because of money. They guy who could discover the cure to cancer could be flipping burgers right now, and not get the chance.



If everyone gets free healthcare in Canada then why do you need to have an employer give you healthcare....you already have it, but perhaps they give you better healthcare. But the taxes you pay with whatever job you have, a portion of that is going to have to pay for healthcare for those who don't have jobs. Otherwise where does the money come from?



I think its a basci human right, healthcare. Its just public schools, no matter how poor you are your kids get to go. Its good for all society. Having sick people not able to go the doctor is bad for all society.


Perhaps I'm defensive about the US because it's so popular for the entire world to hate on us when they do the same bullshit or they've done the same bullshit. The US can't exist like Canada, we have 10 times the population (roughly 270 million more people here than in Canada) so there will be some big differences. Canada also doesn't feel the need to have a strong military cause if someone messes with Canada the US will stomp them into the ground.



Maybe its because canada isnt off pissing off other nations and making them want to kill us. America acts like a big bully, thats why you have all the enemies.




But I simply don't like Socialist governments, I don't want to be responsible for everyone else's bills, gimmie my tax dollars and let me decide how to use my own money, it's nobody else's business whether I decide to donate to charity or buy a plasma screen tv.



I dont consider my fellow human beings lives to be charity. I dont want an extra grand or something a year less in taxes, and have to live in a place where sick people die for lack of money. Thats third world lifestyle.



And this has nothing to do with Iraq, I'm guessing that's where the peace loving comment comes from. Whether we send troops to Iraq or not, doesn't really affect you guys up north.


Yeah it does affect us. When i go to europe and someone thinks i might be american because i sound like one. I could get beat up because of your government. And wars effect everyone.





But it does sacrifice American lives and I think that in the long run the world is better off with a democratic middle east, but I'm not so sure that the price we Americans pay for it (the blood of our children, spouses, siblings, and friends) is going to be worth it.


I have problem with america being the model for freedom. I dont think being able to vote is worth killing everyone. I dont think you can bomb them into freedom. If they want it, they should have dont it them selves. You dont want to pay for peoples operations, but you dont mind paying to force iraqis to be like you?




Afghanistan had a vote recently, Iraq had a better turnout than america and they braved mortor fire to vote, Lebanon recently tossed out the suppressive Syrian government, the palestinians had a vote. More and more people are taking the power into their own hands, and voting and I see that as a good thing.


But america has supported in the past so many of the people it now wants to oust, its really you people who made tyrants prosper in the first place.





I don't understand the ire of the rest of the world over this. We are the ones making sacrifices not them. We are the ones putting our folk in the line of fire.


I see the people shooting at you as the good guys. You invade another nation and want to to force them to be like you, and somhow you are the good guys? I dont think demcracy is good just because america says it is. Its not worth dying for.




So Americans should be (and they are) speaking out against Bush's Iraq situation. We're the ones that should be the most pissed off cause we've lost the most. The only thing France, Germany and Russia lost was the ability to get oil at a price cheaper than OPEC would ever allow while propping up and aiding Saddam in circumventing the UN sanctions on Iraq, thus lining their pockets with the blood of the kurds and sunni muslims.



And america never supports the bad guys right? Like in say saudi arabia?

[vegasgrower]

I am no friend of cops, hell i grow, been busted in the past. If pot was legal this wouldn't happen, but come on folks these people had families, young kids. There is no amount of pot or money is worth what thier children are going through. The people are at fault, me you and everyone who wants pot legal, it is up to us to overthrow these assholes running things.

[LilRedDevil]

Here is the latest update :( I find this terrible and sad.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/03/04/rcmp-shooting050304.html

[Reefer Rogue]

Very well said nomorenarcs, i couldn't agree with you more on everything you said.

[phillykid420]

Nomorenarcs, you seem to have made a bunch of assumptions. That I live in gilded halls on a golden throne of trust funds and wealth. I live in a predominantly black low income area much closer to the projects than the wealthy side of the city. I was making 25K, barely enough to pay my bills and loans and am currently unemployed and not taking unemployment by choice. (the state should be spending it's money on folks who would have a harder time finding employment than me, and it was my responsibility to save money to deal with times of hardship). My pops passed at 20 yrs old so I support myself and my mom so this idea that I grew up with a silver spoon is just a wrong assumption. I worked in college too, I washed dishes on campus for minimum wage and later on I tutored other students through the university.

And who says I don't care about poor people? I believe that people need to take care of their community, but I don't believe it's the governments perogative to force it on people and I believe that the government isn't always fiscally responsible so I put it on the individuals in society to take care of their society rather than some large entity who doesn't always see what needs to be done. I do donate, and I do volunteer but that is my choice and should always remain MY choice and not the government's choice. My mom works for a buddhist organization that does volunteer work in the US and abroad (making near minimum wage). My sister has been to Thailand, India and China doing volunteer work and is going into social work when she could have become a doctor and made much more. My dad was a doctor (self employed) and if someone came in and couldn't afford the cost of medical services or someone needed him on Sunday when his office was closed he'd take care of them and let them pay when they could. I want the impetus put on individuals to take care of their own communities rather than have a large overbearing federal government allocate our money.

And I'm sure the US military went into Iraq with the express goal of killing babies. That's a bit of emotional rhetoric that sounds good but is nonsense. The sanctions that the entire UN agreed on has killed over 500,000 kids and over 1 million in total, that would have continued under Saddam's regime.

I am simply of the opinion that people earn money and should be allowed to do what they wish with it. Nobody has the right to tell you what to do with your money. If I'm working over 60 hours a week to earn 25K-35K than I should decide what to do with it.

And that doesn't mean no taxes, and no programs to help those in need. Less taxes mean more people especially the middle class take home more money, so they can have the opportunity to invest that money (or spend it) thus causing economic growth. This provides more jobs so folks that want to work can work. One of the problems with the US is that we outsource way too much labor we need to provide an atmosphere where folks who want work can get work, and when they get work they should take home more money so they can invest it and build a fiscal foundation that grows. And it goes back to having a market based on competition. I want to own my own pharmacy one day and I'll have healthcare, child care, decent wages but that will be my choice to provide it because then I can have a larger pool of applicants and can pick the best qualified individuals to fill the positions I need filled.

The role of the government isn't to spend my money, they should create laws and enforce fair labor practices.

I spent years in a university as well, I spent a portion of my loan money to buy the reduced cost health insurance that all the students could get. And yeah it meant I didn't have as much pocket money but thats a sacrifice I had to make for insurance.

So if I'm just a middle class guy working long hours for a decent but not exorbitant wage and I send my kid to private school to give him an advantage so he can earn more then I have to also pay for public schools which I'm not using. That makes private school less asscessible to those who don't have very high wages, it keeps middle class kids out of private schools which tend to have better teachers since the teachers are paid more due to the school being private.



You speak a lot of rhetoric but the quality of living is roughly equal between our nations, and the life expectancy is approximately equal as well. So your assertion that we have poor babies dying by the thousands is again, just emotional rhetoric with no factual basis behind it.

Yeah I'm right wing lol. I'm an economic conservative but socially I support gay rights, affirmative action, better welfare (not more money spent on it but rather better programs). I'm in favor of less religion, sensible drug policy reform and a lot of other "left wing" agendas. But when it comes to the economy I think the government does more harm than good, the free market balances itself out through supply and demand models so I argue that less gov't interference in the economy makes a stronger less costly economy.

[4252]

When you're old, you get to learn from mistakes.

I remember Abbie Hoffman, H. Rap Brown, Angela Davis, etc. They were full of shit.

Get your facts straight before you start screaming "Power to the People".

42

[phillykid420]

Your assertion that I don't see the poor just isn't factual, just cause you took a semester of social work is makes you an expert? I live among them. And some people around my way spend their money on "hot rims" for their new car rather than on truly important things like making sure their family is well taken care of.

I'm not trying to help the elites of american society grab up more stupid tvs for their escalade, I'm trying to help the middle class be able to afford investing some money so that they don't have crappy retirements and they can build a solid financial base. These are the folks making 25-60K and so much money goes to taxes and other expenses that they can't invest, not even into their own Roth IRA.

You cannot get around the point that both the US and Canada is heading into some hard times in terms of health care costs. We are accelerated due to having 270 million more people but Canada is also facing the rising cost of health care. The current status can't stand forever unless more people are employeed and the economy grows so more folks are self sufficient and can pay for their own health care costs.

"I think the only thing you should need to go to school is the brains. I bet there are lots of inner city kids in america who are smart enough to be doctors but never will because of money."
we do have federally funded assistance and no interest loans and also grants for kids to go to school. If you're smart enough or have talent in some field, you'll also get a scholarship. We also have community colleges which are cheap and you can apply to medical school from those colleges. Nobody, but the seriously wealthy can afford medical school, but if you get into a school you'll be able to get a loan from a bank.
Again more untrue rhetoric:
"They guy who could discover the cure to cancer could be flipping burgers right now, and not get the chance."

Trust me, the guy with the intelligence and talent who's going to discover the cure to cancer is getting a free ride to an very good university on scholarship money. It'd seriously take a genius to cure cancer and whether rich or poor kids with this level of talent get scholarships to very good universities. The reason we have schools like Harvard and Yale is because we have private schools and they are not subsidised. So if you flip it you could say that you're hurting the best students by not giving them the best education, you're holding them back to satisfy the folks who don't have the same level of intelligence and ability.

And get some numbers on Iraq before talking about it. Over 1 million dead due to UN sanctions, sanctions that your country also agreed with. This would continue under Saddam's regime. So we were killing people at a faster pace before we ever went into Iraq. We didn't force 60% of the population to vote, we made it possible for them to vote, whether or not they want to was up to them. Saddam supported the sunni MINORITY while committing horrendous acts against the Shiite majority and also the kurds.

"Yeah it does affect us. When i go to europe and someone thinks i might be american because i sound like one. I could get beat up because of your government. And wars effect everyone. "

you aren't serious? Our government is sending our family and friends to die over there and you're concerned that some French dude is gonna start a fight if you go abroad?

Democracy isn't worth dying for? Is that why 60% of the country risked life and limb to vote? It would have been better if the Iraqi people did it themselves but due to the inposed sanctions they couldn't. They didn't have the resources available. The sanction that was supposed to cripple Saddam didn't do it, instead it made him very wealthy because France, Germany, and Russia were buying oil from him at a price lower than what OPEC would allow. They funded him directly. Their votes had less to do with Iraq and more to do with them not wanting to get caught with their fingers in the cookie jar....which is exactly what happened. Yet I don't hear any outrage over their egregious actions that filled Saddams pockets and left the Shiite and Kurds unable to rebel on their own. The americans might be assholes for having other motives behind their actions in Iraq but it's leading to more people being able to have a voice in their government, the aforementioned 3 countries had an alternate motive for not wanting to allow the US into Iraq and that was leading toward Saddam gaining power and the other people suffering from the sanctions.

Plenty of people in the past have felt that democracy and civil rights were worth dying for, American colonists, the French peasants, English peasants, Japanese proponents of the Meji government etc. In todays world, it is much more difficult for the common people to rebel. It was all fine when we both had muskets, but the common folk have guns and the government has surface to air missles and mustard gas.

I don't think Iraqis will ever let the US make them like us nor should they. I think so far their democracy and elections have been better than the US elections. Higher voter turnout, rather than 2 parties they had over 100 candidates and those included women. Perhaps the US should take a lesson from their democracy.

Let's take a look at the BBC log of the elections and people's comments. The BBC often prints things that a lot of folk construe as anti-american, but I think many times they are a genuine journal and they have a different perspective which is important for americans to see, it's important to have another point of view:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/middle_east/2004/iraq_log/default.stm

Many many people are happy with being able to vote. They are still suspicious of the occupying forces (US and britian mostly) which they should be but many also seem very hopeful.

America has supported it's interests and at times that has meant supporting the bad guys. perhaps it's not right, but it's reality. World power struggle is a reality, and it always will be. My point in that last statement is that the rest of the world gets a free pass and the US doesn't. I think we need to be fair and say yes the US has and continues to perpatrate horrible atrocities but so has most everyone else.

I'm not a flag waving moron who thinks everything the US does is right, but I'm also not a flag burning moron who thinks everything the US does is evil. I'm glad that the US backed representative Allawi fared poorly in the elections since he would've been seen as a puppet. I'm glad the Shiite majority is willing to work with the kurds and also include the Sunnis who were the minority but held power during Saddam's regime and I'm glad the US isn't trying to rig things to push Allawi as that would lead to civil war. After hearing remarks by Ayatollah Sustanni the leader of the party that has garnered the most votes, I'd say he's more reasonable and a lot better in terms of political savvy than Bush. And most certainly he's a lot more peaceful and reasonable than Saddam.

I am hopeful that the future of Iraq is bright, I sincerely hope the US doesn't abuse Iraq and steal their national resources. I hope they are rebuilt in the same fashion as the US helped rebuild Germany and Japan and the world is a more stabilized place with leaders who want their people to have more freedoms.

Perhaps I don't have the same ideas about the role of the government but that doesn't mean I'm an uncaring jerk. I just think that other solutions are better than federally funded free healthcare. And yes it may cause some undue suffering in the short term, but in the long term I do see the benefit of having less government interference and putting the impetus on the people in a free market economy.

Get a grip, not everyone in the US is a bloodthirsty ogre who would bash a muslim baby over the head with a shovel. I have my beliefs and you have yours. I want people to take the major part of the responsibility for their own communities rather than governments. I'm sympathetic to the impoverished, but I'm also sympathetic to the working middle class who work hard their who lives and don't have much to show for it.

[phillykid420]

Lastly, nomorenarcs, for all your caring, you don't seem to care that 4 cops lost their lives and you don't know whether they were corrupt or not. And now their families have to grow up without their father...real nice of you. I lost my pops as I said above, thank god I was old enough to deal and take care of my family, so I can sympathize with while you seem to think they deserve it for doing their jobs.

[juggalo420]

I am no friend of cops, hell i grow, been busted in the past. If pot was legal this wouldn't happen, but come on folks these people had families, young kids. There is no amount of pot or money is worth what thier children are going through. The people are at fault, me you and everyone who wants pot legal, it is up to us to overthrow these assholes running things.
the children, the children, fuck the children, lifes tough. saddam huessien had a family too, hitler had a beautiful wife, the btk serial killer had a nice family too, so you do evil you have whats coming.

[LilRedDevil]

the children, the children, fuck the children, lifes tough. saddam huessien had a family too, hitler had a beautiful wife, the btk serial killer had a nice family too, so you do evil you have whats coming.

Please! Stop talking out your asshole! Evil is the so called "MAN" who shot the cops! I sit here and read all you tough ass wanna B's and LMAO! You think your a bad ass! Probably cry when your moms & dads take your stash!

GROW UP! :mad:

[phillykid420]

Hey. way to stick up for a convict who went to prison for sexually assulting a boy. Roszyko is truly a screwed up individual.

Truck dispute led to RCMP tragedy
Last Updated Sat, 05 Mar 2005 12:49:39 EST
CBC News

MAYERTHORPE, ALTA. - The chain of events that ended in the deaths of four RCMP officers on an Alberta farm began with efforts to repossess a pickup truck.

Suspect James Roszko had stopped payments on the truck, and the dealership financing the vehicle sent a sheriff to take it back, his sister told CBC News.

Roszko's mother, Stephanie Fifield, said her son took issue with the dealership because it was willing to fix a dented tailgate on the Ford, but not replace it.

A warrant unsealed Friday night says when the sheriff arrived at the farm, a man started shouting at him and released two dogs that appeared to be rottweilers.
Laying flowers at a makeshift memorial outside the Mayerthorpe RCMP detachment (CP photo)

The man sped off and the sheriff called the RCMP for assistance, the warrant says. When the Mounties arrived at the farm, they found what they say was stolen truck parts and about 20 marijuana plants.

Two officers remained overnight Wednesday to secure the area and wait for members of the Edmonton RCMP Auto Theft Unit to bring a warrant and search the property.

At around 9 a.m. Thursday, the two RCMP officers were joined by two other members of their force. Fifteen minutes later, two officers from the Auto Theft Unit arrived.

As they were getting out of their car, they heard shots being fired inside the metal garage, called a Quonset hut.

* FROM MARCH 4, 2005: Officers took proper precautions: RCMP

* FROM MARCH 4, 2005: Suspect in RCMP killings had history of run-ins with police

* FROM MARCH 4, 2005: RCMP shootings 'hurt the heart' of Alberta community

The RCMP say Roszko, 46, who was armed with a rapid-fire assault rifle, began firing at the newly arrived officers, who returned fire.

A medical examiner will determine if the gunman committed suicide or was killed by a police bullet.

Roszko had a long list of criminal convictions, including a two and a half year prison term for sexually assaulting a boy.

[nomorenarcs]

Your assertion that I don't see the poor just isn't factual, just cause you took a semester of social work is makes you an expert? I live among them.


Then by your logic you are lazy. Get off your ass and move then. And I just said i lived in a ghetto all thru university. Just because you drive thru a ghetto and have to look at them doesnt mean shit.





And some people around my way spend their money on "hot rims" for their new car rather than on truly important things like making sure their family is well taken care of.


Just come right out and say it.....



I'm not trying to help the elites of american society grab up more stupid tvs for their escalade,

..you are Racist


Like i said most people on welfare are fucked up people with serious problems. If want to believe its just dumb black people with no common sense, you go ahead.




You cannot get around the point that both the US and Canada is heading into some hard times in terms of health care costs. We are accelerated due to having 270 million more people but Canada is also facing the rising cost of health care. The current status can't stand forever unless more people are employeed and the economy grows so more folks are self sufficient and can pay for their own health care costs.


Doesnt matter how much the economy grows, people making mimimum will never be self sufficent. They will never afford private health care. And fat asses like you would be the 1st to cry if your super sized happy meal goes up 10 cents to pay a decent minimum wage.



"I think the only thing you should need to go to school is the brains. I bet there are lots of inner city kids in america who are smart enough to be doctors but never will because of money."
we do have federally funded assistance and no interest loans and also grants for kids to go to school.


Yeah thats real great, so when you finish school you have a debt of 100 grand waiting for you. Why does my life not get to get started until i am 40? Because i went to school, now i dont get to get married have a car or a house, i have to pay for years. This shit should be free, instead i had to mortage my life jst to get a piece of paper. I would rather pay more taxes and get it for free.


If you're smart enough or have talent in some field, you'll also get a scholarship.


I dont agree with letting buddy go to school because he can run. What if you cant run? Scholarships arent the answer. Very few people are helped. Making it free is way more fair. Acedemic scholaships only help a very smal per cent of people.


We also have community colleges which are cheap and you can apply to medical school from those colleges. Nobody, but the seriously wealthy can afford medical school, but if you get into a school you'll be able to get a loan from a bank.


Anyone should be able to afford to go to medical school if they are smart enough to go there.


Again more untrue rhetoric:
"They guy who could discover the cure to cancer could be flipping burgers right now, and not get the chance."


Trust me, the guy with the intelligence and talent who's going to discover the cure to cancer is getting a free ride to an very good university on scholarship money.



So there are no people smart enough to go to school and cant? Why should they not get to go because they are poor? They are lots of people who are smart and it just money blocking the way.



It'd seriously take a genius to cure cancer and whether rich or poor kids with this level of talent get scholarships to very good universities. The reason we have schools like Harvard and Yale is because we have private schools and they are not subsidised. So if you flip it you could say that you're hurting the best students by not giving them the best education, you're holding them back to satisfy the folks who don't have the same level of intelligence and ability.



Schools in other countries are all equal. No one gets a substandard education because it is cheaper. You dont get a better education at harvard medical school than you do at a medical school in another country where you paid one quarter of the same cost.



And get some numbers on Iraq before talking about it. Over 1 million dead due to UN sanctions, sanctions that your country also agreed with. This would continue under Saddam's regime. So we were killing people at a faster pace before we ever went into Iraq. We didn't force 60% of the population to vote, we made it possible for them to vote, whether or not they want to was up to them. Saddam supported the sunni MINORITY while committing horrendous acts against the Shiite majority and also the kurds.


The rest of the world is not wrong and americans all worldly and informed. You dont know shit about what is going on out there. Maybe you should get your ass a passport and find out what people think of you. The rest of the world isnt wrong and america right, you cant see it because well, as a people, you are ignorant. Americans are ignorant.
You created saddam, its your fault. Supporting the american occupation is the same as supporting nazi germany. You shouldnt smoke weed if you are pro war. People who are right wing shouldnt smoke weed anyway.


"Yeah it does affect us. When i go to europe and someone thinks i might be american because i sound like one. I could get beat up because of your government. And wars effect everyone. "

you aren't serious? Our government is sending our family and friends to die over there and you're concerned that some French dude is gonna start a fight if you go abroad?



I dont care if you die in iraq. You invaded another fucking country you deserve to die, and i spit on your grave when you do. None of our bussiness? This war is none of the rest of the worlds business? You have no business being in iraq. You are the bad guys, and must be a stupid american to think otherwise. I dont care if the worthless garbage who join the US military die. BTW i have muslims in my family, and this effects more than it effects you asshole. You can be as pro war as you want sitting on your fat ass. I am on the muslims side.




Democracy isn't worth dying for? Is that why 60% of the country risked life and limb to vote?


It has nothing to do with freedom or democracy, you just want to force iraq to be like you and call that freedom. The rest of the world doesnt want to be like you. We dont want to ignorant, stupid etc etc. America should not lecture anyone on freedom.




It would have been better if the Iraqi people did it themselves but due to the inposed sanctions they couldn't.


nonesense




The sanction that was supposed to cripple Saddam didn't do it, instead it made him very wealthy because France, Germany, and Russia were buying oil from him at a price lower than what OPEC would allow. They funded him directly.


You bought him bombs moron. Americans know nothing about the world, thats a pont of pride for you. If you did you would know you created saddam. you made osama. You havent cared for years and years, its only when it came crashing into the WTC did you realize there was a whole owrld out there.



Their votes had less to do with Iraq and more to do with them not wanting to get caught with their fingers in the cookie jar....which is exactly what happened. Yet I don't hear any outrage over their egregious actions that filled Saddams pockets and left the Shiite and Kurds unable to rebel on their own. The americans might be assholes for having other motives behind their actions in Iraq but it's leading to more people being able to have a voice in their government, the aforementioned 3 countries had an alternate motive for not wanting to allow the US into Iraq and that was leading toward Saddam gaining power and the other people suffering from the sanctions.



So the fact you went there to steal oil, and something good might have come from from it eventaully, maybe, makes it all worthwhile? You keep changing your story, 1st saddam was a threat, then he wasnt, then it was all about freedom, but freedom isnt nessecary for saudi arabia, only places america says it is. No one is buying this shit outside america you know. It might work for simple minded "frreom good islam bad" assholes but the world isnt that stupid.


Plenty of people in the past have felt that democracy and civil rights were worth dying for, American colonists, the French peasants, English peasants, Japanese proponents of the Meji government etc.


America invading iraq is not comparable to people fighting for freedom. You are occupiers. Not liberators. Liberators dont put people in naked pyramids. Its a joke you people believe this one line "freedom good" shit from bush. You are really are simple minded morons down there. He is the perfect leader.



In todays world, it is much more difficult for the common people to rebel. It was all fine when we both had muskets, but the common folk have guns and the government has surface to air missles and mustard gas.


Coups happen all the time. Governments get overthrown, even peacefully sometimes. Read the paper.



I don't think Iraqis will ever let the US make them like us nor should they. I think so far their democracy and elections have been better than the US elections. Higher voter turnout, rather than 2 parties they had over 100 candidates and those included women. Perhaps the US should take a lesson from their democracy.


How many legitimate political parties were declared terrorists by the americans and not allowed to participate? This was a sham election.





Many many people are happy with being able to vote. They are still suspicious of the occupying forces (US and britian mostly) which they should be but many also seem very hopeful.



The people who had their house turned to rubble are really happy. So are the people missing limbs. Woo hoo! You saw a person with a blue finger in the media, and think wow thats all good. Come on you are really that easy to lead?





America has supported it's interests and at times that has meant supporting the bad guys. perhaps it's not right, but it's reality. World power struggle is a reality, and it always will be.


No sorry its never ok to support tyrants. It comes back to bite you on the ass.




My point in that last statement is that the rest of the world gets a free pass and the US doesn't. I think we need to be fair and say yes the US has and continues to perpatrate horrible atrocities but so has most everyone else.



America keeps making the same mistakes and acting surprized when it comes back to haunt them. Why not stop making the mistakes now. Stop support of israeal and saudi. Or dont cry next 9-11.



I'm not a flag waving moron who thinks everything the US does is right, but I'm also not a flag burning moron who thinks everything the US does is evil.



I dont support the US government in almost anything. I cant smoke weed because of
your evil governments uneeded interferece in canada.





I'm glad that the US backed representative Allawi fared poorly in the elections since he would've been seen as a puppet.


They are all puppets. This is a sham government.




I'm glad the Shiite majority is willing to work with the kurds and also include the Sunnis who were the minority but held power during Saddam's regime and I'm glad the US isn't trying to rig things to push Allawi as that would lead to civil war.


I want saddam back, nothing was blowing up when he was there. His name should have been on the ballot




After hearing remarks by Ayatollah Sustanni the leader of the party that has garnered the most votes, I'd say he's more reasonable and a lot better in terms of political savvy than Bush. And most certainly he's a lot more peaceful and reasonable than Saddam.



Ayatollas are just great. I am sure he will do lots for womens rights too.




I am hopeful that the future of Iraq is bright, I sincerely hope the US doesn't abuse Iraq and steal their national resources. I hope they are rebuilt in the same fashion as the US helped rebuild Germany and Japan and the world is a more stabilized place with leaders who want their people to have more freedoms.


I hope iraq turns to shit, just to prove america wrong.




Perhaps I don't have the same ideas about the role of the government but that doesn't mean I'm an uncaring jerk. I just think that other solutions are better than federally funded free healthcare. And yes it may cause some undue suffering in the short term, but in the long term I do see the benefit of having less government interference and putting the impetus on the people in a free market economy.



Yeah yeah yeah americans individualism, heard it all before. The rest of the world outside america agrees with me, not you. thats why no one else is trying to follow in your footsteps. We dont want bad schools, big ghettos, and rich only hospitals.




Get a grip, not everyone in the US is a bloodthirsty ogre who would bash a muslim baby over the head with a shovel. I have my beliefs and you have yours. I want people to take the major part of the responsibility for their own communities rather than governments. I'm sympathetic to the impoverished, but I'm also sympathetic to the working middle class who work hard their who lives and don't have much to show for it



You dont sound too sympathetic, in fact you sound like you blame the poor for being poor.

[nomorenarcs]

[QUOTE=phillykid420]Hey. way to stick up for a convict who went to prison for sexually assulting a boy. Roszyko is truly a screwed up individual.



Want to see a list of cases of the rcmp killing indians in cold blood in alberta?

[slipnslide087]

i cant read all that stuff damn. short and to the point