Poor plants in bad shape, and I dont know whats wrong.

[prettykitty]

OK I am "calling all cars" - I need some serious help.

I have no clue what wrong with this crop. :(
See pics below.
I am raising them identically to my last crop which is flowering but looks pretty good. These look so sad. wtf4:

I checked PH and it looks alittle high, on or above 7.0 so last night I added a sqeeze of lemon juice and 1 tsp of epson salt to help the PH and add some MG.

They are in an airconditioned closet in my garage, HPS lighting 400 watt, and ventaliation fans.
Any clues, any questions.... Stinkyattic, you seem pretty good at this, any thing you have for me is well appreciated.:thumbsup:

[stinkyattic]

1 teaspoon epsom salt? Solid?
Flush. IF it is still sitting on the soil surface, pick it ALL out. That plant may not survive.
Dosage for epsom salt is 1/4teaspoon per gallon of water. I NEVER add it to soil. I use it as a foliar spray only when I see distinct signs of a Mg deficiency, and these days I just foliar feed with a complete micronute (GH Micro or Algoflash) to treat.

Yes, your pH was too high. But you need to adjust it by a correct flush. There's an instruction at the top of the problems section. Use the lemon juice or pH down to make a solution at pH 6-6.5 and pour it through until the water coming out the drain holes has a pH of 6.7.

I'd start some more seeds too.

[prettykitty]

oops, I should have been clearer. Sorry.

I mixed 1 tsp in a gallon of water and squeeze a small amount of lemon (fresh into the same gallon of water). wtf4:
I tested the water, and its showed about 6.0 ph.

Does this look like a PH problem or MG problem to you?

[stinkyattic]

Neither; purely anyway, as a matter of fact. Yes, your pH contributed. But there is somethign else going on.
Fill out the troubleshooting form and we'll see what's up. Your plants look uncomfortably warm from here.

[prettykitty]

Oh ok, and thank you so much for taking a quick looksy!!!
I am a total noob to this forum and just learning my way around, how can I get to the troubleshooting form?

[Forwhat420]

What size pots are those in? Looks like a pretty thick clone so I'm sure the root structure will be large. Might a repot with some fresh soil help?

[Forwhat420]

Oh yea that first one looks like over fertilization.

[prettykitty]

here's some more pics of my set up. This is only my second time doing this so any advise is helpful, seriously. ;)
They are 6 inch pots - I did one pretty good with the first ones, but its a very tights space. Do you think Bonemeal would help and some PH down?
I think last week they may have got too hot because even with the AC - it was hard to keep the temp at below 85.
They look kinda streched and the leaves on the sour diesel are pointing strait up, whats that from?

[prettykitty]

oops, here they are....

[stinkyattic]

Before we get any further:
At this point, you are going to want to SUBTRACT some things. Your heat load in that room for starters, which is going to make any other problems you are having much , much worse.
Bone meal will help buffer pH at a higher level, and will add a lot pf Phosphorous to your grow. But you have too much fertilizer already from teh loosk of thigns, and more fertilizer iis the LAST thing those plants need right now. So don't add anything until we know WHY the plants look crappy.

Fill out the form! really! without that, we are stabbing in the dark!

[prettykitty]

Well I thought mabey I fert. them abit too early, I was just giving them 1 tsp on fox farm mixed in 1 gallon of water every 2 waterings (so basically like 2 times a week) and I used one of the nut. tests from Lowes, with PH, N, Pho, and Pot. and they all came up low.
I am afraid I will over fert them, and the PH is alittle high.

[prettykitty]

Hey Stinkyattic, can you give me the link, I cant find the troubleshooting form? I will do it if I can find it.....
I am a desperate momma..... my wittle babies are sickies....:hippy:

[zebulon]

Here ya go....: http://boards.cannabis.com/plant-problems/127058-troubleshooting-form-yay-you-know-you-wanted-one.html

[stinkyattic]

I gotta run (dinner with my Pops, woot!) but read up on that, and the link in my siggy, and this one:
http://boards.cannabis.com/plant-problems/153522-soil-runoff-ph-why-how-do.html
I should change the title because it's not jut about pH; it's also about flush technique. You DEFINITELY need to flush right away.
What are you using for a pH tester? The metal probe ones they sell at Home DePOT for $10 are no good.

[prettykitty]

H=Answer if you grow hydro or aero (neither - Soil)
C=Answer if you grow coco No
S=Answer if you grow traditional soil Yes
L=Answer if you grow soilless other than coco (Promix, Hyponex, SunshineMix)
R=Answer if you grow in RockWool Yes
T=Answer if you grow in HydroTon No
D=Answer if you run any type of automatic drip system, including into soil or soilless No
E= EVERYONE needs to answer lol!


E-indoor or outdoor Indoor
E-soil, soilless, coco, aero, or hydroponic Soil
E-specific medium bottom 2 inches in small clean pebbles and miracle grow soil for vegies and flower mix
CSL-Soil type/brand same as above
HCL-Hydro/aero/soilless system type
SCL-Anything you have added to the soil very small amounts of foxfarm mixed in one gallon of water, epson salt (1 tbs to 1 gal of water with squeeze of lemon)
SCLR-Soil or slab runoff pH
E-Water source TAP
E-Source water pH 6.2 - 6.5
HRT-Source water EC (if hydro)
E-Age of plant two weeks
E-Type of fertilizer fox farm
E-Rate of application (if hydro, this is your PPM number, preferably after each component is added)
E-Lighting source and distance from plant HPS 400 watt approx 12 inches from plantsE-Air temperature (both day and night if you are running a dark period) 70-85 degrees
HD-Reservoir temperature
E-Air % Relative humidity between 40-50E-Lighting schedule 24 hours
E-Type of ventilation your room has two exterior vents and one air conditioning unit
TR-Did you pre-soak your media in pH corrected solution? NO

[prettykitty]

This is really weird.

It has purple veins, white, yellow and lime green leaves, and the new growth is dark green and some of them are twisting.

IS MY PLANT MAD OR WHAT? :mad: What the heck did I do to it here?

Does this look like nute lockout? Anyone?

Miracle grow soil, very small amount of fert, I overwatered by accident at first, but resolved that, is this just the aftermath?
400 wtt. hps lighting around 75-85 degrees and 45-55 humidity.

[hudson88]

Wow to me it looks like the plant's suffering from multiple deficiencies probably caused by the miracle grow soil but wait for someone with more experience to diagnose

Good luck

[stinkyattic]

WAY too much epsom salt for any life stage is your biggest problem.
Young plants need very weak, if any, fertilizer. In MG soil there is already too much ferts for young seedlings, so they were starting off 'hot', then the addition of the liquid nute and epsom salt put them over the edge.
Combine that with being very close to a big lamp (too close unless it is air cooled correctly) and you are seeing the fert burn magnified.

Flush just using plain water at pH 6.7, raise the light (BTW, HPS is for flowering primarily, and you can get great results with CFLs in veg and they run cooler), go to a steady feeding of your liquid fert starting at 1/4 the recommended dosage and working up slowly.

[stinkyattic]

One thread per topic please. Otherwise you are having members write up an explanation that mirrors a perfectly good one on the other thread.

[prettykitty]

OK Great! Thanks Stinkyattic!
PS - sorry about that....I thought I started a new thread, I am kinda a rookie at the thread thing, bare with me:D

[Weedhound]

:eek: Id hurry with that flushing and ph thing......;)

[prettykitty]

Hey I pulled this leaf of one of my flowering plants. I started giving my flowering plants some bat guano (no other nutients) and today I found a leaf that looks like this, which seems like some kind of problem arising....

2 tables of guano per one gallon of water.... Did I over do it?

[prettykitty]

I started the Bat guano 2 days ago - sorry, that was a typo. I got this leaf today.:stoned:

[stinkyattic]

I merged these threads... same plants, same problem- You're feeding too high, and your pH may be off.
You ever get around to that flush and pH check that we have all been suggesting?

Edit: just noticed you said this is FLOWERING plants. There may be another problem that they all share.

Tell us about the water you are using on them. Where does it come from? Is there any chance of sodium contamination? That damage pattern looks like more than a fert burn.

That is a lot of bat guano- too much. Guanos should be used as a tea, prepared according to a tea recipe found in the 'organic' section, or mixed into the soil.

[prettykitty]

well thats why I started a new thread, these are different plants. I have one set of babies, and one set that are already flowering. My post says that. So now that's clarified, what do you think this could be?

[prettykitty]

sorry to answer your questions:
Tell us about the water you are using on them. TAP left out for 24 hours just in case of chlorine in my water
Where does it come from? NO clue - city water
Is there any chance of sodium contamination? Possible.
That damage pattern looks like more than a fert burn.
Well - considering its the only thing I put in them, I would agree. The tips of the plants are also pointing down, so is that another sign you know of???

[stinkyattic]

So, did you ever flush and check the runoff pH?
Flushing takes out overfert. All your plants are suffering from it. All your plants need to be flushed.

[Weedhound]

And check the ph.......I did mention HURRY....right?

[prettykitty]

OK, I checked them all. They all were high - all from 7.0 - 8.0
I changed the lighting over to a Metal Halide light. I used PH down and got them all around 6.0 (runoff water from the plants).

They are still growing, but they dont look to healthy, but I think they are going to make it.

I have to say that all the signs I see looks like UNDER fert - not over fert. :cool: I think I had a fert lockout due to the high PH.

HOWEVER, I am not adding anything to them because I realize there is a ton of fert in the Miracle grow soil - so now maybe my plants can access some of it.:thumbsup:

[Dyranty]

What could i use to lower my water's ph level it's between 7.5-8.0

I found this list, I'm looking for household stuff to use until i make it to the store.

pH - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PH#Measurement)

I couldnt imagine adding cola to my water....... or even beer.
What about coffee or tea? seems a lil whacked to me.

[prettykitty]

Yeah - I dont think I would mess with that when It comes to my plants. I did use the lemon juice - I just squeezed some into my water, the problem is, its a quick fix, not a permanent fix. The PH in the water/plant needs to be fixed for good.

I found a package of PH up and PH down at my hydroponic store and it came with a ph tester for only $15 - its enough supply for personal growers, and I dont forsee having to purchase more for at least a year.

I also bought some PH strips and they gave me a second opinion of accuracy, and they work Great! They were only $6. I cant invest in a high quality $90 PH right now, maybe later.

[stinkyattic]

Runoff 6.0 is too low. You are looking for runoff 6.7.
In an emergency, cider vinegar or lemon juice work okay.

Following the instructions for a correct flush (stickied at the top of this section), you must:
-Aim for final runoff 6.7 in soil, 6.4 in soilless, and 6.0 in rockwool
-Feed immediately with a complete fertilizer mixed at 1/4-1/2 strength that contains micronutes to replace what you have washed out through flushing.

[prettykitty]

OK but my plants are clones that were started in Rockwool, and are planted in soil. So should my ph still be 6.7?

I dont have a numeral tester, just strips and liquid tests so getting it exactly perfect is pretty impossible :(

So today I will check the PH and see where I am at. After I check the PH, I add back in 1/4 strength of nutes?

[prettykitty]

progress report - ok the stems are turning green (vrs purple) so thats a good sign. :hippy: I gave them nutrients this morning and the PH was 6.5 (1/4 strength as advised)

To be honest, they look zinc deprived from the pics of I have seen of Zinc def.:cool:

Here is a peek.....