The problem with hydrogen-fuled cars

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

I used to be a major proponent on hydrogen-fuel techologies, and I kinda sorta still am. Hydrogen is an immensely powerful fuel source, it doesn't waste other essential resources like food (as with bio-fuel), and there's been some ingenious methods that have arrived lately, allowing us to extract the hydrogen energy at a considerably lower cost/energy output.


Here's the problem though: hydrogen fuel proponents brag that the only emmisions are water coming out the tailpipe. The way I see it, that's going to be majorly problematic in cold areas of the world (IE my homeland, Canada). Imagine a bunch of cars all lined up in rush-hour traffic. It's 10 below, the cars are inching alone the road for half an hour or so, all dripping out water from their exhausts. That water is going to fall all over the road and create black ice, rendering the whole road slippery and undriveable. Am I wrong? :confused:

[bhouncy]

I used to be a major proponent on hydrogen-fuel techologies, and I kinda sorta still am. Hydrogen is an immensely powerful fuel source, it doesn't waste other essential resources like food (as with bio-fuel), and there's been some ingenious methods that have arrived lately, allowing us to extract the hydrogen energy at a considerably lower cost/energy output.


Here's the problem though: hydrogen fuel proponents brag that the only emmisions are water coming out the tailpipe. The way I see it, that's going to be majorly problematic in cold areas of the world (IE my homeland, Canada). Imagine a bunch of cars all lined up in rush-hour traffic. It's 10 below, the cars are inching alone the road for half an hour or so, all dripping out water from their exhausts. That water is going to fall all over the road and create black ice, rendering the whole road slippery and undriveable. Am I wrong? :confused:

Sounds like you might be right.

I don't know how much water is produced but maybe it could be used to add to the water that is used for cleaning the windscreen. But then you would need more anti freeze so maybe some contraption to add both?

Or maybe add anti freeze to the exhaust. But I guess that would cause more pollution.

[killerweed420]

I've read a couple articles where scientists are concerned if we all went to hydrogen cars we'd have another climate change problem to deal with.

[purplehaze11]

do they emit water of water vapor? if it is just water vapor then it seems like far less would be able to freeze into ice.

[Coelho]

Well... the burning of gasoline (or alcohol) also emits water vapor together with the CO2. And, for a given amount of energy generated, the burning of gasoline emits more water vapor than the burning of hydrogen.
The burning of hydrogen generates far more energy than gasoline, so less of it is needed to generate the same amount of energy, and so less water vapor is produced.
So, if this problem does not happens with normal cars, it also wont happen with hydrogen fueled cars.

[bhouncy]

Well... the burning of gasoline (or alcohol) also emits water vapor together with the CO2. And, for a given amount of energy generated, the burning of gasoline emits more water vapor than the burning of hydrogen.
The burning of hydrogen generates far more energy than gasoline, so less of it is needed to generate the same amount of energy, and so less water vapor is produced.
So, if this problem does not happens with normal cars, it also wont happen with hydrogen fueled cars.

Learn something new everyday.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

do they emit water of water vapor? if it is just water vapor then it seems like far less would be able to freeze into ice.


I'm pretty sure that in cold weather, water vapor would still plummet to the ground before getting very high. But...



Well... the burning of gasoline (or alcohol) also emits water vapor together with the CO2. And, for a given amount of energy generated, the burning of gasoline emits more water vapor than the burning of hydrogen.
The burning of hydrogen generates far more energy than gasoline, so less of it is needed to generate the same amount of energy, and so less water vapor is produced.
So, if this problem does not happens with normal cars, it also wont happen with hydrogen fueled cars.


I should have known some physicist would come along and save the day! :jointsmile: Much thanks for the help Coelho.



EDIT: BTW, isn't Brazil the country that's converted 85% of it's car fuel to sugar-cane bio-diesel? How's that working out?

[killerweed420]

Yeah they burn 85% ethanol for 30 years. They don't have to import a single drop of oil. But it takes a shit load of sugar cane to power the country.

[Coelho]

I should have known some physicist would come along and save the day! :jointsmile: Much thanks for the help Coelho.

Youre welcome! :thumbsup:


EDIT: BTW, isn't Brazil the country that's converted 85% of it's car fuel to sugar-cane bio-diesel? How's that working out?


Yeah they burn 85% ethanol for 30 years. They don't have to import a single drop of oil. But it takes a shit load of sugar cane to power the country.

Well... i think 85% is a bit too much... but surely a large percentage of our cars are indeed fueled only by ethanol (alcohol), and the new cars, called "flex", can be fueled with either gasoline or alcohol.
Its have been working fine, as the alcohol is cheaper than gasoline (about US$ 3.80 / gal), and less poluent. Unfortunately, it indeed takes a lot of sugar cane... but at least its a thing that grows from the land and can never end, unlike the oil...
The research of alcohol fueled cars started at the 70s or 80s during one of the oil crisis, when the government needed an way to decrease the countries oil needs... and its nice to know that our technology, that is very sucesfull, could be exported to other countries.

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

if all that's produced is water, cant they rig up a radiator exhaust? boil the exhaust, that is.

[space toker]

I heard that water could be used to manufacture hydrogen.
So let me get this straight. You can derive the hydrogen from water, then it also makes water as the waste product? So couldn't you collect that water and maybe even have something built into the car that converts the waste water back to hydrogen?
I am no physicist so I don't know if this is possible or not. Maybe in the near term you could just collect the water exhaust if it can't be converted back to hydrogen onboard.

[Coelho]

I heard that water could be used to manufacture hydrogen.
So let me get this straight. You can derive the hydrogen from water, then it also makes water as the waste product?

Yes, its exactly this.


So couldn't you collect that water and maybe even have something built into the car that converts the waste water back to hydrogen?

Well... its possible, but its not useful. This cars burn hydrogen to get the energy that makes it move, like the usual cars get their energy from burning gasoline.
This process of burning generates water, that can indeed be used to make hydrogen again. But it needs energy to be done. The energy that the hydrogen generates when burnt comes from the energy you must give to the water to turn it into hydrogen.
So, we can say that hydrogen is just a thing that stores the energy given to water during its decomposition (to transform it in hydrogen), and releases it when its burnt.

[MadSativa]

The very first cars were fueld on Alcohol and bio fuels. The only reason the big switch happend was cause of alcohol prohibition. Bunch of Smart people came up with that fix??

[kieffster]

there have been a few ppl that have made an engine that converts water to hho gas than burns it than just pipes the exhost back into the gastank thats filled with water. its really not all tht hard as long as u can get the water to condense quickly and i dnt think tht would be very hard on a cold day