Agnostics for Jesus

[bhouncy]

Although I don't know if the man called Jesus existed and doubt very much that he was the son of something called God I still think that they idea of this man is to me the best role model I can imagine. If everyone strived to emulate this loving and caring man we would have world peace.

You may say I'm a dreamer but I'm not the only one:)

[killerweed420]

I've always thought Jesus was a self fullfilling prophecy. Everything he was supposed to do was in the old testament so he just followed the book and was hammered to a tree

[40oz]

I admire jesus too. Great guy.

[hazetwostep]

bhouncy... i agree that jesus is an amazing role model. of course there are arguments both ways regarding whether jesus existed or not. from my research i have personally concluded that he did in fact exist. i believe he was a very enlighten person (though not a deity, imo) and lived a lifestyle of love and awareness that if others emulated would indeed make this world a better place... it truly would bring about a new earth (to quote the bible).

[Breukelen advocaat]

I have never found much admirable content in the words or actions of the mythical god Jesus. Millions have been killed, tortured, or disenfranchised due to doctrines based on the teachings in the New Testament.

[Coelho]

I have never found much admirable content in the words or actions of the mythical god Jesus. Millions have been killed, tortured, or disenfranchised due to doctrines based on the teachings in the New Testament.

I would say due misleading (or rather evil-guided) interpretations of it...

[GreenDestiny]

no Jesus, no peace.

I love the philosophical Jesus, NOT the mis-interpreted religious martyr.
One idea of the man brings peace, love, and understanding; the other is slavery, ignorance, and devastation.

kinda funny as how he is credited to be the Alpha and Omega.
because that's exactly what it's doing to the whole world.

Thank you, Christians, for putting words into the mouth of your imaginary friend named Jehova for us to be enslaved by, and for appointing yourselves to be the spokespersons of Jesus. Without you, we would certainly be lost in a world void of fear, prejudice, and war.

[Breukelen advocaat]

None of this christinsanity would have ever started if humans had stuck with natural, psychoactive drugs. The "drink my blood (liquor), eat my flesh (wheat & gluten)" stuff in the New Testament is poison to humanity, and should be abolished. Eternal damnation for not believing in madness is what they preach, and it's all in the bible. It's sick, and the world is none the better for this pathetic counterfeit version of pagan pantheism. The REAL "sacraments" were natural drugs, before supplies dried up in the Middle East due to natural causes. Jesus' Essene roots show how a primitive, but assertive, group of spiritualists spread a belief system that promises everything, but delivers nothing - unlike the old, pagan drug religions that used natural substances to improve the human condition - mostly through the mind, but physically as well. Tripping or drunkeness - which would you prefer?

[hazetwostep]

advocaat...

i can very easily see where you are coming from with so much killing and hatred in the name of a loving god.

from my reading through of the bible, and with jesus more specifically the new testament, i got an overall message of love, peace, and acceptance from jesus. now those who "carried" on his teachings once he was gone, they are a different story.

i was curious as to what teachings from jesus lead you to feel he is a bad example.

i know much of what stemmed from his root teachings or current interpretations of his teachings are destructive... but i would not label him as bad because of how people carried on after he was dead.

example: people take the saying "i am the way, the truth, and the light, nobody comes to the father but through me" as a way of saying you must believe he is god and obey him to avoid hell... i believe his message was saying that living a loving, selfless, forgiving life is the way to god/heaven/whatever one calls it.

i see a man who came to abolish "the law" or religious organizations and set up a personal spirituality... of course due to human nature those after him took this freedom of exploration and set up a bunch of rules a regulations around it, completely defeating his purpose.

imo

[Breukelen advocaat]

advocaat...

i can very easily see where you are coming from with so much killing and hatred in the name of a loving god.

from my reading through of the bible, and with jesus more specifically the new testament, i got an overall message of love, peace, and acceptance from jesus. now those who "carried" on his teachings once he was gone, they are a different story.

i was curious as to what teachings from jesus lead you to feel he is a bad example.
Personally, I do not believe that there is a god, or that Jesus, or any other such diety, existed - so there is no need for "personal spirituality". But, to answer your question, the quote below is one of many examples in the New Testament that negate the absurd belief that Christ promoted peace and tolerance.

The words of Jesus, from Matthew:
10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

[GreenDestiny]

The words of Jesus, from Matthew:
10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

IF Jesus even really did exist, there's no way to verify any direct quotes; they're all putting words into his mouth. It's true that the Bible contradicts itself over and over, rendering it virtually useless to people seeking any truth.

Long live the biosphere!

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

If we were all like Jesus, as in every single human being on the planet, then that would be just swell. But I don't see how his philosophy could set the precedent for all our behaviors so long as there's people elsewhere in the world still full of hate and aggression. It seems to me that Jesus advocated a philosophy of unwavering pacifism in the face of any and all abuse against you personally. Just wouldn't stand up in a world like this.

[40oz]

The words of Jesus, from Matthew:
10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.


Well if you look at the whole quote that was taken out of, the last sentence reads, "Those who find their life will lose it, and those who lose their life for my sake will find it"

I think that might be saying something about human nature. If you live life with only yourself in mind, that is bad and will lead to your destruction. If you live for the betterment of others, you can find happiness but people probably will take advantage of you and push you around. Im not a religious scholar or anything so I dont know if thats what it really means, but like hazetwostep said, I believe the bible is about living in peace and love and recognizing the interconnectedness of everything. I dare you to find quotes that condone violence in the new testament. There are basically none. It is all about peace and forgiveness.

[Breukelen advocaat]

It is all about peace and forgiveness.
The idea of eternal damnation and burning forever, simply because a person cannot, or will not, believe in Christ is about the worst kind of violence ever imagined. Is this an example of your god's "peace and forgiveness" for the creatures he designed?

If I had a choice, I would rather spend eternity in hell, consoling the souls suffering there, than with the hideous monster that created it.

[NaughtyDreadz]

The idea of eternal damnation and burning forever, simply because a person cannot, or will not, believe in Christ is about the worst kind of violence ever imagined. Is this an example of your god's "peace and forgiveness" for the creatures he designed?

If I had a choice, I would rather spend eternity in hell, consoling the souls suffering there, than with the hideous monster that created it.

amen!

[40oz]

The idea of eternal damnation and burning forever, simply because a person cannot, or will not, believe in Christ is about the worst kind of violence ever imagined. Is this an example of your god's "peace and forgiveness" for the creatures he designed?



hah, well hey lets not start calling him 'my god' or anything now.

I don't think that the whole "believe in me or burn forever in hell" is really Jesus' message. Jesus used parables and metaphors to speak to the people because essentially people are dumb and were unable to grasp what he was talking about. What is in hell? Fire. What does fire do? turns things into ash, into nothing. Hell could just as well be a stat of mind, it could be being lost in the nothingness of existance, who knows.

I believe that whole puritan garbage about god torturing people in hell is a little far-fetched and better as an attention grabber than something to believe in. Its also useful to get those unfortunate people who have poor reasoning skills to blindly follow certain dogmas.

[Breukelen advocaat]

If it was not for the "puritan garbage about god torturing people", the churches would be empty and there would be no such thing as Christianity. If people were too "dumb" to understand Christ, then couldn't he have used his godly powers to find a way to clearly communicate his thoughts?

Religion is a gigantic hoax, and nobody knows what happens after death. Everything in Christianity, and Judaism, was stolen from previous religions, both monotheistic and paganistic types. The idea was to enslave people's minds in ignorance, and get them to blindly follow - and, of course, give money to the priests.

The advice given by Jesus is dumb, whether or not you subscribe to a particular religous organization or not. He clearly stated that it was his way or......face the devil.

Matthew 13

40 As therefore the tares are gathered up and burned with fire; so shall it be in the end of the world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that cause stumbling, and them that do iniquity,
42 and shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He that hath ears, let him hear.

[hazetwostep]

like anything you can see what you want, where you want... or at least what you expect. i guess if you want/expect to see hatred in the bible, you will find it. if you expect to find love, you too will find it. this goes for any "holy" book... or just about anything in life really.

i do not follow the christian faith, believe in the divinity of jesus, or believe the bible is "god's word"... but i personally see thousands of years of wisdom and truth stored within it (yes covered in the mud and muck of human tampering for control and power with ideas like hell and all). for me, i can overlook the bad to find the good... and for me it has done much good to follow the MAN called jesus' example... i would probably be in much the same place if i grew up learning and emulating buddah's example or mother teresea...