My mother area on 24/0

[Opie Yutts]

Weedhound asked me to show and tell my mother area, so here ya go. Ask and ye shall receive.

But first, How Not to Clone:
I suppose I can briefly throw in this fiasco since it happened in my mother area. More on this journey through failure in another thread.

[Opie Yutts]

Things are underway to remedy the situation, but at the present Iâ??m down to 2 varieties. They are in a closet in our junk storage room. I got a plastic shelf system from BiMart, left out one shelf and turned it into 2 stands, each with a top and bottom. It works out quite nicely for a 2-tier mother area. Weedhound talks of her 2 yoyo technique, notice my 2 wheelbarrow tire technique.

Don't forget the rules, cough, you must take hits while waiting for photos to upload.

[Opie Yutts]

Environment:
Temperatures remain pretty much whatever we have our household thermostat set to, and thatâ??s about 72 in the day and 68 at night. We have a heat pump so itâ??s pretty much like that year round, maybe a little higher in summer unless weâ??re feeling particularly wealthy or hot. Temperatures are checked with a laser thermometer, and vary a couple degrees here and there throughout the area. Not sure of humidity, never checked. Feels like, seems like, a little low, maybe 40%. The fan is slightly stronger than needed, which brings humidity down some.

Ventilation:
Thereâ??s one small oscillating fan in the upper left on the low setting, and both the room and closet doors are left open nearly all the time. At one point I went several months without a fan, and mushrooms started growing in the containers with the moms, so I guess I canâ??t recommend doing that.

Lighting:
Iâ??ve been experimenting with 24 hour lighting for about 5 months now. Iâ??ve not seen anything adverse from it so far. Thereâ??s some controversy about it, but Iâ??ve always thought a weed plant needed a dark period to properly thrive. The contrary seems to be the case for my moms. They seem to be doing quite well and growing pretty fast. Both top and bottom sections have 4 foot fluorescent tubes. On top is a 6500K, 54 watt T5 in a reflector. For the bottom there is one 40 watt reflector holding two T12 tubes. One is 5500K and one is 6500K. The lights are on small chains with a half link on the end so I can easily adjust the light, and hook the chain on the corrugated shelf, or whatever is handy. The top and bottom sections seem to perform about the same as far as causing plant growth and putting off Lumens. Weâ??re not talking about the rapid growth of HID, but I was actually surprised at how well they do. My light meter says the T5 puts off 760 foot candles, at 6 inches directly under it. The T12 combo puts off 630 foot candles at that distance, but I think itâ??s a little closer to the optimum vegging spectrum. One foot candle equals one lumen per square foot of surface.

Medium:
The moms are in what ever soil I decided to whip up at the time. I used to use vermiculite, but found it isnâ??t really needed, and kept the soil too moist for my liking. Often Iâ??ll get seedling starting soil for the young ones, but normally I get the best potting soil I can find in my little home town, and add about 20% perlite, and occasionally 1% clay pellets, just eye-balling it as I mix. I highly recommend this as it will drastically cut down on conditions that are too damp and moldy. Iâ??ve never inoculated my soil or put it in the oven. It sits outside in a bag until Iâ??m ready for it. The few times Iâ??ve tested the PH of my soils theyâ??ve been right around 6.8, which is perfect for growing weed in dirt. I used the run-off method. You flood your plant with PH 7 water, catch the first run-off and test it. I want to try keeping some hydroponic moms in the near future, probably a simple shallow water culture.

Food and Drink:
I try to peek in the door at least once per day. If I know theyâ??ve all recently been watered, sometimes I donâ??t check on them for several days. If a plant looks a little droopy Iâ??ll water it. I flood the container until it runs out the bottom. My well water comes out of the tap at 260 PPM, and I adjust the PH from 7.6 to 6.8, give or take a tenth. About every 3rd watering Iâ??ll feed them at about half recommended strength with whatever hydro nutrients I happen to be using at the time, along with a couple drops of SuperThrive per gallon. Also a little CalMag about every other feeding, maybe 1 tablespoon per gallon. For nearly a year theyâ??ve been eating Gro Aqua by Supernatural. I try to make sure the watering before any cuttings are taken is just water, but it doesnâ??t seem to make a huge difference either way. Some people say to deprive your mom of nitrogen before taking cuttings, but Iâ??ve never worried about it.

Other maintenance:
Plants grow bigger and so do their roots. Occasionally Iâ??ll feel the need to put my moms into a bigger container. Sometimes if sheâ??s yellowing and you canâ??t figure out what the problem is, a bigger home and a quick flush solves the issue. Be sure to check out the thread simply titled â??mumsâ?� (I think). Thatâ??s the way I want to do it some day. Cutting back both foliage and roots to nearly nothing from time to time, but so far Iâ??ve been too afraid or too lazy to try. I just keep making new moms and I occasionally transplant them. Soon Iâ??ll try it the right way, promise.

At least 2 or 3 times per year Iâ??ll flush them. I just run a bunch of PHâ??d water through the pots, like maybe 4 or 5 times the volume of the container. This is probably more of a preventative (or delusional?) measure than anything. The plants certainly donâ??t mind, and I think it just helps get rid of anything toxic that might have been building up. I donâ??t have any pest problems except the occasional spider, which unlike the spider mite, I welcome.

About the only other maintenance I do is LST and topping. Notice the difference between the plant on the top shelf (first photo) and the same variety on the bottom left (second photo). The top one has never been LSTâ??d, only topped for cuttings one time. The bottom one was tied down in several places to get it to bush out more. Soon I will do the same to the top plant since it is growing too tall, and Iâ??d like it to spread out more. Also see how spread out the other mom on the bottom shelf is (third photo). There are many nodes, and light is able to find itâ??s way to most of them. This one has more foliage lower, near the container, because I started LST from the beginning instead of after a reveg. Notice how tying down one branch lets light get to all the nodes on it, and itâ??s almost like you get a bunch of new plants growing out of it (fourth photo).

Photo 1: BBxNL from a second generation seed. First generation was from Kind Seed. I got about 6 seeds from 8 plants.
Photo 2: BBxNL revegged from the first generation. If you look close you may be able to see the little brown buds left on the plant after flowering. Obviously this plant stretched badly in itâ??s young days.
Photo 3: AK-47, the strongest of one of two clones, taken from a clone purchased from a dealer. Ready for a container bigger than this one that I used in my wedding. No it wasnâ??t holding a weed plant at that time, they were various kinds of purple, pink and burgundy flowers.
Photo 4: An AK-47 branch, tripping on LST.
Photo 5: 2 cuttings from the AK-47 mom, stuck in the dirt 3 weeks ago and watered, nothing done since. Looks like theyâ??ll make it despite the yellowing on the lower levels.

more photos, more hits, cough.

[Opie Yutts]

Weedhound asked how I get such nice tight node placement and such bushy plants. The color of light helps, but mostly itâ??s from LST and topping, which Iâ??m constantly doing to my mothers. Bluish vegging lighting promotes shorter, bushier plants and tighter node spacing. They would probably be more stretched out if I was using your typical 2700K CFL. Also LST lets light get to the lower nodes so they grow nearly as well as the main shoots. I guess a good way of putting it would be that I kinda spread out the plant all over the top of the container. Other than that, I donâ??t know. Maybe itâ??s just the variety, but thatâ??s what theyâ??ve always seem to do for me. I know you can also buy fertilizers that promote bushiness, but I donâ??t know what they are.

When itâ??s time to take cuttings, make sure sheâ??s not at all thirsty. Like water a few hours before, or at least within a few days. For one thing, if sheâ??s full up on the liquids the cuttings will be less likely to get an embolism. I try not to take away more than 1/3 of a plant when taking cuttings, but many varieties will tolerate more, like maybe 2/3. Remember that a plant will want less food and water when you remove a bunch of itâ??s foliage. As for what part to cut off her, use whatever branches or stalks are the healthiest. You just have to make sure there is at least one emerging growth shoot. You can even top a plant, then take another cutting or two, lower down from the first cutting. Along with a growth shoot there should be a couple 3 branches with good healthy leaves. Sorry, now Iâ??ve switched to a cloning thread.

I hope that helps, or was at least a little interesting. Comments, criticisms, questions, bashings with a cane, are all welcome. I know I donâ??t do things the way some consider to be the â??rightâ?� way, but hey, works for me. Iâ??m not concerned with fast growth or any kind of superplants when it comes to my moms. As long as they stay mostly healthy, and continue to grow enough to supply cuttings, Iâ??m pleased as punch.

Mark my word: My mother area will soon expand. I already have several new great varieties of seeds, and another T5, just waiting for more plants to shine on. Thank you very much to the good people.

Peace n Love n stuff

[Opie Yutts]

Correction: Photo #2 in the series of 5 above is not just of a revegged BBxNL. There are two plants, and the one on the right is the AK-47.

[grey1223]

I used to do 24/0 and had no problems. I went back to 18/6 because I only saw a slight improvement with the extra light. Besides, the damn things grow too fast in veg anyway so I figured why waste the electricity.

[justanotherbozo]

LOL, really, as a cfl'er myself, and also a newbie grower, it's encouraging to see your results, my own vegatative growth has been much better than i'd expected.
do you flower with fluoro's as well? if so, details please, please.
btw, and if you've already answered this just point me at the answer, but what happened with that bubble cloner? that's what that was right? i only ask 'cause my own seems to be working so well and if there is something that i should monitor to prevent what you experienced it would be nice to know, LOL (i shouldn't have had a 'lunch' puff)

anyway, i got my eye on you dude!

bozo,
peace, love, dope

[Opie Yutts]

I used to do 24/0 and had no problems. I went back to 18/6 because I only saw a slight improvement with the extra light. Besides, the damn things grow too fast in veg anyway so I figured why waste the electricity.

Yeah, they are actually growing much faster than I need them too. I plan on cutting back to 18/6 pretty soon. I just needed to see for myself what happens.

[Opie Yutts]

do you flower with fluoro's as well? if so, details please, please.
btw, and if you've already answered this just point me at the answer, but what happened with that bubble cloner? that's what that was right? i only ask 'cause my own seems to be working so well and if there is something that i should monitor to prevent what you experienced it would be nice to know

Sometimes I use bluish fluoros in my budding section, but only as a supplement to my 600W HPS. You can get wonderful results with fluors alone if you do things correctly, but in general I only use them in situations when I don't really care about fast growth.

I'm in the process of working on a more detailed thread about it, but it was my first try with my new cloner, in a new and cooler area. The badness started when I put in an aquarium heater and didn't pay attention. The next day the water was 92 and there was a little mold on some of the stems. I tried to air out the stems, and ended up sealing them. That's all she wrote. Make sure you keep the plants and the reservoir about 76-80 for best results. Too cold, and they take forever to root. Too warm and they mold or rot. And be sure to burp your humidity dome often.

[Weedhound]

My WW never got all nice and bushy like that.

How about a photo of your lights?

I like the thought of lst vs topping.....i know you do both but I honestly didn't consider lst during veg so will now.

I'm strongly thinking of making a clone mom with these plants that fell from heaven.

What if the nutes your are using or laying around are bloom nutes? Do you still use them for your moms?

What's a shallow water culture.....time for me to go google things.

Lastly....mushrooms grew eh? What kind?

[Weedhound]

Weedhound asked me to show and tell my mother area, so here ya go. Ask and ye shall receive.

But first, How Not to Clone:
I suppose I can briefly throw in this fiasco since it happened in my mother area. More on this journey through failure in another thread.

Ouch....sorry about those..

Thanks very much for mom info. :thumbsup:

[Opie Yutts]

What if the nutes your are using or laying around are bloom nutes? Do you still use them for your moms?
I should have been more specific, sorry. No, I don't use bloom nutes for my moms, only veg nutes. It used to be Grow Big by Fox Farm. The moms seem to do about the same on that as Supernatural's Gro Aqua. If they perform the same, I'd rather use stuff by Supernatural since it's a powder, and very hand, and lasts forever on the shelf instead of a year. It's also pre buffered so I don't have to use PH down. In actual grows I've found the Supernatural to produce slightly better results.

What's a shallow water culture.....time for me to go google things.
I'm not sure you'll find it in a search engine. I think it's just something I kind of made up. I'm thinking DWC (deep water culture), only less deep, like in an Emily's Garden set up. I'm a little concerned with vertical growth in my mother area, so I'm thinking the net pot will sit directly on the bottom of the res instead of propped above it. Is it still Deep water culture if the res is only 3 inches deep? Not sure.

My WW never got all nice and bushy like that.
I'll see if I can't do something about that. I've got 6 WW seeds from the same place you got yours, and I'm going to see if I can't get them to crack fairly soon. Maybe under my lights and food and stuff, I can get a nice bushy mom.

How about a photo of your lights?
OK, hold on a few minutes.

[justanotherbozo]

LOL, that's like, deep water culture without the depth!
EXACTLY what a bubble cloner is, mine anyway.
with what you're considering Opie, i would be concerned about oxygen intake, i'm no expert though, hopefully someone with more experience will read this and either de-bunk my erroneous conclusion or confirm it. i know you want the roots to dangle down into the res, i just don't know how it would be to have ALL the roots ALWAYS submerged.
if not then i'd try it and see what happens, shit i may try it myself, LOL

anyway, toke amongst yourselves

bozo,
peace, love, dope

[Opie Yutts]

What I'm talking about is not really new. Net pots sit on the bottom of the reservoir which is only 2 or 3 inches deep. Air stones make bubbles, the more the better. When the res gets low you feed again, and give em flush once per month or so. Works out quite nicely, like in this grow: http://boards.cannabis.com/indoor-growing/140716-lsttt-low-stress-twisty-tie-training.html Run "emily's garden" through a search engine to learn more.

I appreciate everyone dropping by, and I'm eager for any and all advice.

[Opie Yutts]

Lastly....mushrooms grew eh? What kind?

Shhh, we're not supposed to talk about that in this forum. Actually, I don't know what kind they were and nothing illegal was going on. They may have been edible, psychedelic, deadly poison, I don't know. I imagine it's something I brought in from letting my soils sit outdoors, then no air circulation, damp soil, boom - mushrooms. If you are further interested, there's some pictures in this post: http://boards.cannabis.com/plant-problems/134279-unwanted-mushrooms-weed-pots.html. The title and some content was rearranged or deleted due to the delicate nature of the subject matter.

[Opie Yutts]

Upon further inspection, I need to make a couple of corrections.

1) The fixture in the bottom of my mother area is not drawing 40 watts, itâ??s drawing 80, since it has 2 40 watt bulbs. So for 67% of the electricity, the T5 puts out about 21% more lumens, according to my light meter. Someone feel free to correct me on my math or logic, but I think thatâ??s right. The down side is the bulb is 6500K instead of the preferred 5700K. In fact, according to the chart, 6500K will stimulate about half the chlorophyll activity that 5700K will. To make matters worse, Iâ??ve not seen a decent 4 foot budding T5 bulb. They all seem to be 3000K or above, and again thatâ??ll do about half as good as the preferred 2500K, or even the more common 2700K color. Good thing Iâ??m only using it for vegging.

2) One of the bulbs in the T12 fixture is 5000K, instead of 5500K as previously mentioned. That, combined with the 6500K should make a real nice veg spectrum in lieu of 2 proper 5700K bulbs. Thatâ??s probably why this set up seems to perform equally to the one making more lumens, but keep in mind it costs 33% more to run. Hmm, I see all vegging T12s in my house soon being either trashed, or converted to budding fixtures. Just think how efficient the T5 would be if I found the right color bulb. Theyâ??re more expensive up front, but like LEDs, will pay for themselves shortly.

3) The rules clearly imply that one must take hits as they wait for photos to either upload or download, instead of merely as they upload as previously mentioned.

The T12 bulb in the very bottom of the photo (plant and aquarium) is not to be used during veg, unless you really donâ??t mind your plants growing slow. Itâ??s a full spectrum bulb, with emphasis in the red spectrum for better flowers. I might try it in budding some day, but only with a cool blue type bulb. My plants nearly seemed to hibernate when I used only the full spectrum bulbs. Notice the lower lumen count compared to the other bulbs in the second photo in the last set below.

[Opie Yutts]

The T5 is on the upper level. Itâ??s made by Hydrofarm. I think I paid $45 or $50 in a grow store for one reflector and bulb set up. I think itâ??s really cool the way you can chain these together in several configurations (5th photo below). They also have plug-ins to plug up to 8 together in series. Just for fun I searched this, and the first unsponsored result was this, http://www.ecogrow.com/index.cfm/product/1621/mid/7/nid/33/home.html (http://www.ecogrow.com/index.cfm/product/1621/mid/7/nid/33/home.html), which has it on sale for $31.50, plus shipping, plus waiting on it, plus sending it back since it got damaged either before or during transit, plus not being able to talk to a real person about it, or have them return your emails. Iâ??d say I got a good deal.

[Opie Yutts]

The T12 combo with 2 bulbs is on the bottom level. If you buy â??Lights of Americaâ?� brand shop light, you may find that the version that comes with a switch on a pull chain doesnâ??t work properly. I took back my third and final one yesterday. It looked like it was working fine, then Iâ??d come back 2 hours later and the light would be off. Iâ??d pull the chain, the light would come on, and it would happen again, continuously. They have another version of shop light that works perfectly for me. It does not have an on/off switch, and the lettering on the box is red instead of blue. It also has white instead of silver as a reflective surface (better), and is $5 cheaper ($10.95 without bulbs). Cheap bulbs can be as little as $1.50, and good ones are about $7. This ballast can handle both T8 and T12 bulbs, and several different wattages (1st photo below). Color rendering index (3rd photo below) is a scale from 0-100 which measures how accurately the bulb renders colors, with 100 being perfect. I laugh when grow bulb manufacturers boast of something like an index of 94. Who the heck cares? We want blue for veg and red for bud, both of which look nothing like the actual colors of things.

Well that was a bit of uploading so I'm a little buzzed. If you've been following along you know what I'm talking about.

Thank you for your cooperation.

[Weedhound]

Hmmmm....how hard would it be do you think to set something like that up on a stand....Actually.....the make those stands don't they.......hmmmmmm

Thanks Opie.....that is GREAT info...:thumbsup:

PS.....hmmmmmmm

[Opie Yutts]

For a woodworker like myself, not hard at all.

I've seen those stands for 2 footers, but I'm sure they make em for 4 footers as well.

Your quite welcome.

So you're saying "hmmmmmm"?

Well I'm off to take the dogs and kid for a walk in the woods. The kid's right. I shouldn't stay in the office all day.

[Opie Yutts]

About every 3rd watering Iâ??ll feed them at about half recommended strength with whatever hydro nutrients I happen to be using at the time, along with a couple drops of SuperThrive per gallon. Also a little CalMag about every other feeding, maybe 1 tablespoon per gallon.

Oh yeah, I don't want to leave this out because I think it's a great product. When I feed with the CalMag, I also add about the same amount of Liquid Karma.

[Opie Yutts]

anyway, toke amongst yourselves


lol. Nice. I read this several times and just now saw the "toke".

[Weedhound]

hmmmm because now I'm off thinking about how to build a cool setup like yours for my future clone mom......hmmmmm

Dont get lost in the woods! :D

[justanotherbozo]

lol. Nice. I read this several times and just now saw the "toke".

i'm glad someone noticed, it's actually paraphrasing Mike Myers in the skit where he plays a Jewish woman, when he gets 'verklempt' he says 'talk amongst yourselves'.
just thought 'toke' would fit better here LOL

anyway, toke amongst yourselves

bozo,
peace, love, dope

[Opie Yutts]

I think I'm getting a little verklempt in my vashugida.