If you use RO or distilled water you NEED CalMag Plus

[stinkyattic]

That's all.

My fingers were cramping from typing it n times a day.

[GreenDestiny]

great simple sticky here!

Correct me if I'm wrong.... As I understand, when using RO or distilled water, we need to use an additive like CalMag Plus because most hydroponic nutrients are not formulated/balanced for use with the plain water. The nutrients are made to be used with average hard water which already contains calcium and magnesium. RO/distilled water lacks the calcium and magnesium which are essential for growing.

However, using hard water from the tap isn't always the best because the ratio of calcium to magnesium can vary, possibly to the degree of causing nutrient lockout.

Some people use a mix of plain and tap water. I don't know enough about that to make any comments.

I'd think it would be more beneficial to use RO/distilled water and adding the appropriate amount of CalMag to correct and prevent deficiency, which will give the plants all they need in a soluble form they can uptake with less effort.... Also there's no harmful mystery chemicals as would come from using tap water!

[stinkyattic]

Right on brutha. That is exactly the point.

One clarification is that the nutes for hard water are actually labelled for hard water use. It will say right on the bottle. The 'default' nutrient is made to be used with 'average' tap water. I, for one, have the good luck to be able to use my city water out of the tap, even in hydro, but the bad luck to have to add calmag to my well water, which is quite 'soft', even in soil! haha ... what a PITA!
But a techincally oriented grower will tell you that he likes to start with NOTHING and add only KNOWN fertilizer components to his water.

Even in dirt, you still need calmag if you use RO, distilled, or rain water. And you MUST adjust the pH of rain water, after adding the calmag, and before use on your plants.

[Revanche21]

RO?

[texas grass]

reverse osmosis, water purifying process

[Opie Yutts]

I, for one, have the good luck to be able to use my city water out of the tap, even in hydro, but the bad luck to have to add calmag to my well water, which is quite 'soft', even in soil! haha ... what a PITA!

Moan, moan, moan. :D

I lay awake all night wishing I could have soft well water. OK, not exactly, but believe you me, hard well water is a real bitch compared to soft. How did you get so lucky? Must be my location or upbringing, but I didn't even know soft well water existed.

I guess everything has it's good points. I don't need to add Calmag. I usually do though, in small amounts. Great product, though there are others.

[Opie Yutts]

reverse osmosis, water purifying process

Basically it takes out most impurities and leaves you with water. Both undesirables and otherwise.

[stinkyattic]

How did you get so lucky? Must be my location or upbringing, but I didn't even know soft well water existed.Spring water running through a granite substrate, not limestone, and runoff from a hemlock forest. I have organic acids problems with my well water :(
Blah. You want some? Miracle healing water! Great for all types of problems! Warts! Malaise! Possession by evil spirits! Only five bucks a glass. Step right up...

[Opie Yutts]

Sounds like a colloidal mineral drink I fell for, for about 6 months. Supposedly I'll live to 140 for drinking it.

[bigbong1411]

Sounds like a colloidal mineral drink I fell for, for about 6 months. Supposedly I'll live to 140 for drinking it.

lol...I almost bought some of that stuff too :)

[hatecable]

What about filtered water? Will that have the minerals you need or is it just as bad as distilled/ro? Im about to set up my first aquafarm and am glad i ran into this thread.

[LOC NAR on probation]

If it is not RO/distilled. Then you need an EC/PPM meter. Besides PH your EC/PPM are most important. You might be good to go. My bro has well water under 100ppm's. Works good with hard water nutes.

Depending on the filter and the source of water, will answer your question.

Remember if it has chlorine in it it has one function. To kill organic matter.

It is a pain sometimes getting water but well worth it in the long run of getting over the big hurdles of hydro. RO units can be gotten cheap.

When you know you started with nothing to screw you up then it is alot easier to fix problems.

Once I got my meters and water straight problems went away.

[hatecable]

Ok so i posted asking more about cal mag, and then found the answer 15 seconds later. After so many hours of reading..i hurt in weird places:yippee:

[Revanche21]

If it is not RO/distilled. Then you need an EC/PPM meter. Besides PH your EC/PPM are most important. You might be good to go. My bro has well water under 100ppm's. Works good with hard water nutes.

Depending on the filter and the source of water, will answer your question.

Remember if it has chlorine in it it has one function. To kill organic matter.

It is a pain sometimes getting water but well worth it in the long run of getting over the big hurdles of hydro. RO units can be gotten cheap.

When you know you started with nothing to screw you up then it is alot easier to fix problems.

Once I got my meters and water straight problems went away.

I didn't use a PPM meter in my grow o_o

[stinkyattic]

Sometimes you will be lucky. I have grown hydro successfully without a ppm meter, because my source water was perfect (I didn't even know it, just dumb luck). And I have FAILED at soilless without one. If you suspect even slightly that you have a source water problem, take it down to the shop to be tested, and if you will need to do ANY adjusting, get a good EC meter.

[hatecable]

How much calmag are you supposed to add? Just use whats on the label?

[stinkyattic]

If you don't have an EC meter, just use what's on the label, but you really should have some way of checking conductivity if you are in a position to need calmag, and you'll want to add it until your ppm reads right around 300, before adding any other nutes or checking the pH.

[hatecable]

does that go for seedlings through maturity?

[stinkyattic]

Seedlings need plenty of calcium too; you'll have to read the schedules for the answer to your dosage question, but I've always just used tap water on mine. If you have to use DI/RO/rain, my hunch is that you still need calmag, but at a lower dose.

[SAP420]

I have been using soft water for a long time not using Sodium Chloride but Potassium Chloride to get the hardness out and have not had any problems at all growing. :)

[MasterKush22]

I have 10 gallons of distilled with all my nutrients in it. I added two gallons of regular sink water assuming it has the calcium and magnesium. Is this a bad move?

[stinkyattic]

Not necessarily, and most likely completely fine; however, now your nutes are at about 83% strength and assuming your tap water was ideal, your mineral levels are at 17% strength.

[ToPHeR31]

Yo I have a dehumidifier that is constantly running...is that water safe to use since it's humidity being sucked out of the air?

[stinkyattic]

Yo maybe.
Do you see corrosion on the condenser? Is the catch container metal or plastic (metal bad, plastic good)? Do you know the conductivity of the water coming out (should not even register on your EC meter; if it does, you've most likely got dissolved copper or aluminum from the condenser)?
Still gotta run calmag if all that stuff checks out.

[tinytoon]

Sorry for the stupid question but Stinky mentioned taking your water to the "shop" and having it tested, I am atleast 70+ miles from the closest Hydro shop so where would the best place to go to get water tested without suspision and exactly what is the key to be looking for from the results? Silly me hasnt been able to purchase a meter yet but luckily I am on the 3rd grow and no problems so far just want to make sure I avoid any if possible.

[stinkyattic]

If you haven't had problems yet, keep doing what you are doing.
The city sewer and water department should have a website where they post the actual test results on your tap water. Look at the TDS number.
If you are on a well, and suspect your mineral content is unstable, you are better off buying a meter. The cost of testing through a private lab can be high, and if you think you will need to have your water tested more than once, it's cheaper to get a TDS/EC/PPM meter.

[LolaGal]

Out here in the country we have agricultural extension office in each county. They will test water for free. I assume there is one in each county in the USA.

[stratlogic]

I disagree about the calmag. I've never heard of it and therefore never used it. I have discovered that using r/o water with Advanced Nutrients Sensi Grow/Bloom works out perfectly in a hydro setup and that is all I ever use. I never have to check ph or ec and have had much success. Lucky I guess.

[stelow54]

Cal-mag plus will drop your water ph even at 2.5 mls per gallon and I don't even know how many ppm's that will get you to, so the more you need the more it's going to drop your water ph.

[Rubberbubbler]

I just collect rain water than run it through a micron filter works perfect!

[bitemybud]

I disagree about the calmag. I've never heard of it and therefore never used it. I have discovered that using r/o water with Advanced Nutrients Sensi Grow/Bloom works out perfectly in a hydro setup and that is all I ever use. I never have to check ph or ec and have had much success. Lucky I guess.

Yes You are.

It is a fact that cal mag is necessary for optimum growth. Ask any commercial or professional grower.

While I am at it. Someone asked about amount to use.

For seedlings; You might add 3ml per gallon. The bottle says to use 5-8ml.
I generally never use 8ml unless late in flower week 4-7, before flush.

[oldmac]

Yes You are.

It is a fact that cal mag is necessary for optimum growth. Ask any commercial or professional grower.


You have it correct bitemybud, first that's it necessary and second ask any commercial or professional grower. Commercial growers are a great source of information and while none will entertain mj questions, what they do and how they do it, is applicable to what you grow.

Also note; cal/mag is NOT required if you use Pro-Mix, it contains dolomite lime. When dolomite breaks down it provides calcium and magnesium so it is already in the container. It is one reason professional greenhouse operators use it, one less item to meter into thier RO water.

[delta9nxs]

Hello, people!

â??it is a fact that cal mag is necessary for optimum growth. Just ask any commercial or professional grower.â?�

Well, yes, that's true, but I am a professional grower and I don't use any calcium or magnesium supplements because I don't have to. That's because I use a nutrient that already contains more than adequate amounts of each and I run ph at levels that allow for sufficient uptake. In the greenhouse hydro industry growing tomatoes with drip irrigation in perlite culture many operations use bulk nutrient preparations that are dry and come in two parts. One part contains everything but calcium nitrate, the other part is calcium nitrate. They keep them separate to prevent magnesium sulfate and calcium nitrate from interacting. Just as the gh flora series, techniflora nutes and many others do, liquid or dry. The one part flora nova gets away with everything in one bottle as it is a colloidal suspension that separates during storage, thus preventing the interaction. However, there are many nutrient packages that don't contain sufficient cal-mag. Pure blend pro is a classic example. You absolutely must use cal-mag with it to avoid disaster.

I am currently using maxibloom for flowering. It is a one part product that does not have any reactions until you put it into solution in water. It contains ample amounts of cal-mag.

The calcium/magnesium deficiency most folks run into eventually using hydro nutes is caused by ph being maintained at levels that don't allow for decent uptake. Not by the nutrients being low on either calcium or magnesium.

I know I run the risk here of opening up a whole can of worms on proper cannabis hydro ph, but here goes anyway.

Most of the ph charts you see are incorrect or misleading. Most would have you believe that if you don't run at a specific ph you are running the risk of lockout of one element or the other. Some depict uptake of elements at different ph points that don't even overlap with their recommendation for ideal ph, usually at around 5.8.

The truth is that there is no such thing as ideal ph and there are no finite points where lockouts occur. Every application is a compromise. However, the 5.8 recommendation is right in the middle of the range where you get the least calcium and magnesium uptake. You are still getting some, but usually not enough. You either have to get above 6.0-6.1 or below 5.5 to get adequate uptake of calcium or magnesium. I believe that above 5.5 phosphorus availability starts diminishing so I start my input solution at 5.2. As nutrients are used and evaporation/transpiration occur the ph will climb. The girls love it and show no symptoms of deficiency.

So, if you are using ro or distilled water and your nutrient shows calcium and magnesium on the label try running your ph between 5.1 and 5.4 for a while and see what happens. I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

If you are using ro water it is probable that you have very hard water from your tap and you decided to use ro water to solve the problem. If your tap water is over 200 ppm at the .5 conversion (milwaukee meters), you probably have too much calcium in your water. The calcium in your tap water plus the calcium in your nutrient solution can add up to an over abundance of calcium. An excess of calcium can cause a magnesium deficiency. You see the mag deficiency first and you think you need more magnesium so you add cal-mag thereby aggravating the situation. You can run into a similar scenario adding epsom salts (magnesium sulphate) to your solution. Too much of one nutrient can cause problems with uptake of another.

If your tap water is below around 150 ppm and doesn't contain more than 70 ppm calcium (only a water analysis can tell you this) try correcting ph to 5.2 for a while. With Ro water, if your nutes show Mg and Ca on the label, try 5.2 for a while.
Or you can blend ro water and tap water in proportions that get your tds below 100 ppm, then try 5.2 for a while.

My tap water is slightly over 200 ppm most of the time, so I blend tap 40%/ro 60% and end up with a reading of around 80 ppm before nutes are added. I chose this ratio because of the ph buffering capability inherent in the tap water mixed with ro at this ratio allows me to get away without using ph adjusters, either up or down. 2 gals tap plus 3 gals ro plus 2 level tablespoons maxibloom gives me 5.2 at around 950 ppm every time. I have visually perfect plants showing no signs excess or deficiency.

Well, I hope this little discourse helps someone be a better grower. Later delta9nxs

[oldmac]

Excellent first post delta9nxs! And welcome to the canna boards, I hope to see more posts from you.

You've raised two very important points:

1) everyone needs to check what is in thier nutrients, water, medium and any additives...it is real easy to over do a nutrient element.

2) PH is extremely important to nutrient uptake and the fact that it "drifts" is a good thing, since various elements need slightly different PHs to get utilized.

Thanks for the informative information. (is that redundant?)

[McToker]

I'm using R/O water for my grow. Should I continue to add CalMag when my grow goes into the "straight water" flush mode at the end of flowering?

[crabbyback]

delta9nxs :postgood: and welcome to cancom.

[oldmac]

I'm using R/O water for my grow. Should I continue to add CalMag when my grow goes into the "straight water" flush mode at the end of flowering?

Hi McToker,

Sorry no one answered your question right away.

Yes you should continue the use of cal/mag during flush, it will help the plant use up any nutes left in the soil, but also any nutes left in its' cells. If your using the cal/mag as directed the amount is so small it will not effect taste. It's just as if you where using tap or decent well water there is just a trace of micro-nutrients in it.

[McToker]

Thanks oldmac. That's kinda the way I was leaning but wanted to make sure.

[nwodreciffo]

Im confused, If I use tap water and add nutes, it will mess up the plants?

[smello]

what about reg. bottled water

[headshake]

Im confused, If I use tap water and add nutes, it will mess up the plants?

you most certainly can use nutes with tap water. can you be a little more specific with what you are needing clarification with please?


what about reg. bottled water

be more specific. is it spring, distilled?


-shake

[smello]

sorry-spring water

[headshake]

sorry-spring water

you shouldn't need any calmag+ spring water as it contains most of the micronutes that your ladies need. they should get the rest from your nute regimen.


-shake

[smello]

thank you shake

[headshake]

thank you shake

no problem. if you have to used bottled water, i would stick with spring.

-shake

[texashustle]

So if Im using distilled and the flora series I dont need cal mag?

[stinkyattic]

'Spring water' is a very generic term. Do you know this spring? What minerals and organic acids are in it? How much sodium does it have?
Spring water bottled for drinking often has too much sodium for plants, and not enough minerals. You're better off running distilled + calmag... at least you know what's in there!

Bottom line: Know your water. If you've got no way of testing the EC, then IMVHO... stick with tap water and a soil style of growing...

[headshake]

'Spring water' is a very generic term. Do you know this spring? What minerals and organic acids are in it? How much sodium does it have?
Spring water bottled for drinking often has too much sodium for plants, and not enough minerals. You're better off running distilled + calmag... at least you know what's in there!

Bottom line: Know your water. If you've got no way of testing the EC, then IMVHO... stick with tap water and a soil style of growing...

i stand corrected. thanks stinky!

-shake

[hizzarp702]

Never have truer wordz been spoken:thumbsup:

[bluntman2006]

my tap water has 35 mg/l of calcium is that pretty high will I still need cal/mag and also what would be the ppm reading for 35 mg/l of calcium

[foggyman]

Your water company on request should be able to give you a complete run down on whats in your water.... i recently fell foul as my water company switched resevoirs.... the new resevoire was 150miles away from the previouse and was lacking in sulphur, iron, boron....

your local aquatics center will be able to test the following

total disolved solids-TDS
PH
PHOSPHATE
GENERAL HARDNESS
CARBONATE HARDNESS(MIX OF MAGNESIUM CARBONATE AND CALCIUM CARBONATE I THINK)
AMMONIA
IRON
MAG
CALCIUM
NITRATE
NITRITE

You can order these straight of the old WWW.

Nutrafin Master Test Kit

peace out
:rastasmoke:

[texashustle]

Not if you run the Lucas Formula :rastasmoke:

[SunLake]

Excellent post Delta, I read the whole thing and learned a great deal. I am using Flora series nutrients and R/O water. Flora has a separate Hardwater micro for their hard water. So I am assuming the regular micro has the cal mag i need. I was interested about two thing though:

Mixing tap water and R/O, this would be a great way to get around the ergonomics of my R/O, as it only produces 5 gallons every 1.5 hours and it wastes a lot of water and time in the process.

But more intriguing was the pH discussion. I heard keep it between 5.5 and 6.5 so when I started my seeds yesterday I used 6.34. I'm now wondering if I should attempt to drop the pH.

[phman8588]

Could blackstrap mollasses be used at a substitute of cal-mag, it contains a bunch of nutrients such as magnesium calcium and iron

[smokey420bandit]

i've been using Nestle pure life purified mineral water. Its been through reverse osmosis.

i heard its the way to go. You can only get it in litle bottles though.

:hippy:

[Chebus]

Hey all, I'm new to this all and was wondering if I use distiller water I'm my ebb n flo systm does that eliminate most ph problems? I have no meters and cannot afford one,I am using foxfarm nutes, I want to make this as easy as possible on myself and not have to worry about my water ph ppm ect. In a nutshell is distilld water good enough to use and not have to correct ph EVER?

[misslilly]

Hey all, I'm new to this all and was wondering if I use distiller water I'm my ebb n flo systm does that eliminate most ph problems? I have no meters and cannot afford one,I am using foxfarm nutes, I want to make this as easy as possible on myself and not have to worry about my water ph ppm ect. In a nutshell is distilld water good enough to use and not have to correct ph EVER?
No, you still have to be able to check it. The test strips that General Hydro sells are better than nothing and should be under $10.

[khyberkitsune]

Not if you run the Lucas Formula :rastasmoke:


I found the LUCAS formula lacking for most of my plants. CalMag was definitely needed, though not by bottle directions, maybe half that.

YMMV, depending upon your water supply, I guess. :D

[khyberkitsune]

Hey all, I'm new to this all and was wondering if I use distiller water I'm my ebb n flo systm does that eliminate most ph problems? I have no meters and cannot afford one,I am using foxfarm nutes, I want to make this as easy as possible on myself and not have to worry about my water ph ppm ect. In a nutshell is distilld water good enough to use and not have to correct ph EVER?

No, pH must always be monitored. Distilled water/RO water especially so, because there's less stuff initially present to act as a buffer.

I use the GH liquid pH tester kit. Not the most accurate thing to try to judge but it works if you've got decent light to judge color by.

[MJACTIVIST]

If U use RO and U have hard water really dont need CalMag. All u gotta do is mix them 1/2 and 1/2. Half ro/tap. U'll save money on ur RO filter and not buying CalMag.
My .02
L8
MJ

[khyberkitsune]

If U use RO and U have hard water really dont need CalMag. All u gotta do is mix them 1/2 and 1/2. Half ro/tap. U'll save money on ur RO filter and not buying CalMag.
My .02
L8
MJ

Most hard water comes from an excess of calcium and not magnesium, though. The imbalance would cause a lockout of magnesium and you'd have sickly plants pretty quickly. Tried it, didn't work. Back to cal-mag.

I have hard water and even without RO I add cal-mag to bring the levels closer to balance.

[MimbresValley]

Hi McToker,

Sorry no one answered your question right away.

Yes you should continue the use of cal/mag during flush, it will help the plant use up any nutes left in the soil, but also any nutes left in its' cells. If your using the cal/mag as directed the amount is so small it will not effect taste. It's just as if you where using tap or decent well water there is just a trace of micro-nutrients in it.
Hey mac, could you explain this part a little more in depth:jointsmile:

[oldmac]

The question was whether it was OK to use RO water /cal-mag to do a flush when finishing. It is accepted that cal-mag water allows for nutrients to be more available for the plants uptake. (that's what this threads abt) It is believed (not proven) that it helps with nutrient transport and use of nutes in the plant.

If you are adding cal/mag to RO water that has 0 PPM of TDS, you will only add enough to bring TDS to 200-250 PPM. This in in the OK to drink range, much like well water with micro nutes in it. Or better analogy, look at a bottle of Dasani, RO water with a small measured amount of minerals replaced in it for taste.

There is not enough of cal/mag in water properly done to leave behind any trace of it after the flush. Hope this makes sence or cents.
In my original answer, "taste" there was a reference to finished, dry bud.
OM

[mx450guy]

When I first started to grow I was always spun up about making sure that this or that was right....I finally found out that the MJ plant is a very sturdy plant and cant take alot. I found a simple solution to my problem. I live in the city where my tap water is 250-300ppm (Im using a hydro system).. I found that if I buy a de clorinator filter for the shower at Home depot, I can get all the water I need( till the filter runs out)... as long as the chlorine is out of your water, the plants will deal with the rest hince no need for Cal Mag and other like items. I also have better luck using Honey instead of Molassis in my applications... I tend to yield about 1lb per plant.... Mi dos centavos...Mx

[BudSmoker510]

When I first started to grow I was always spun up about making sure that this or that was right....I finally found out that the MJ plant is a very sturdy plant and cant take alot. I found a simple solution to my problem. I live in the city where my tap water is 250-300ppm (Im using a hydro system).. I found that if I buy a de clorinator filter for the shower at Home depot, I can get all the water I need( till the filter runs out)... as long as the chlorine is out of your water, the plants will deal with the rest hince no need for Cal Mag and other like items. I also have better luck using Honey instead of Molassis in my applications... I tend to yield about 1lb per plant.... Mi dos centavos...Mx

What filter brand do you use?
My tap water is at 350-370ppm right now!

Where do I want it be be at?

What and how do you use Honey in your application?

Sorry for all the noobies questions.

[cdouglas869]

I have been using their B'cuzz line of nutrients. they don't even sell a cal-mag product. Green all the way thru to the end. Go to, [email protected] ask for a sample that's how I started using them. Happy trails

[dr.kush3]

dose this only apply to hydro when using ro that you have to add cal mag? or also in soil?

http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-log/199051-first-grow-log-grow-clone-harvest-black-water-og.html

[CanGroIt]

dose this only apply to hydro when using ro that you have to add cal mag? or also in soil?

http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-log/199051-first-grow-log-grow-clone-harvest-black-water-og.html

It also applies to soil....if using RO or Distilled, add micro nutes....

CGI::::::

[ZiggZagger420]

well calcium is good for veg and magnesium is good for flower but general hydroponics is good for nothing...it will make your soil so hot your plant will die right before your eyes I did a PPM test on my soil and it nearly blew up my meter...its always good to have a qt of cal-mag laying around when you want to destroy your plants even further I just found out about Super Natural Brand and IMO for soil or hydro its the best but before you get ready to throw that three month old project in the trash use super leech and cal-mag together and it will bust up all the salts gen hydro puts in there nutrients and your plant will start to veg again I saved a cali blue dream mother that way and if I would have stuck to gen hydro it would be on its way to the dump !! Every month at least leech your soil or at your next nutrient:thumbsup: change your plants will thank you...its not nice to see your PPM meter blow up

[ZiggZagger420]

if you use super natural brand you can throw your meters away its designed to run 700-1000ppm thats 1 to 2 teaspoons per gal and buffered so you will never need a meter...you only need a meter if your using crappy nutrients sorry about the dirt but thats the way it is or you can buy billions of dollars of garbage and make a recipie but lifes too short to use crappy nutrients:thumbsup:

[Weedologist]

I use the BioCanna line in OFFF soil, with crappy tap water; the GH tester says its 7.0. So my question is this... Do I have to worrt about ppm using soil, or should I just keep my water PH'd to around 6.3-6.8? And why are all my stems turning purple, its making me sad.

[CanGroIt]

well calcium is good for veg and magnesium is good for flower but general hydroponics is good for nothing...i


Calcium good for veg??? Magnesium good for flower??? That's a first....

Blaming GH for your mistakes is really easy to do.... Shit we might as well release everyone from prison who shot someone with a gun....because by your logic, it's not their fault....

I used nothing but GH for my first three years of hydro....the 3-part Grow Micro Bloom and Floralicious Grow and Bloom.... If you know what you are doing, your plants will thank you.... It was probably more so operator error that led to negative results with your plants, than it was the concentration of the nutes....

CGI::::::

[JaneAddiction]

Doesn't the nutrients include calcium and magnesium? What nutrient brand offers the best choice to stabilize PH? I've also read plants can be misted with a diluted solution of epsom salts (magnesium) - a diluted mixture would be 1/2 teaspoon added to 32 oz's of distilled water and mist during dark period.

[flebro]

I use calcium/nitrate as part of my feeding regiment that way I don't need calcium, however I'm unsure how much magnesium sulfate should be added in ppm to balance it. any thoughts?