Little curly bushy plants need a little help :)

[jessejames12345]

Hi everyone .

Here are my little ladies. Just now 5 days into 12/12 and for the past few days they've started to get really curly in the leaves and limp.



Im a first time grower , and want to do all I can to let these little bushes reach their full potential.

Thanks !

[jessejames12345]

This one has it the worse

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/1101/0503080803iu4.jpg

[chongman420]

Anyway you can make the pics bigger than thumbnail size?

[jessejames12345]

yea workin on that now ;)

[jessejames12345]

Ok lets try this again :jointsmile:

This one has it the worse

ImageShack - Hosting :: 0503080803iu4.jpg (http://img171.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0503080803iu4.jpg)

Heres the others

ImageShack - Hosting :: 0503080805zt4.jpg (http://img171.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0503080805zt4.jpg)


ImageShack - Hosting :: 0503080806vv0.jpg (http://img379.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0503080806vv0.jpg)


Thanks again :)

[jessejames12345]

E-Age of plant
8 weeks

E-Type of fertilizer
shultz all purpose- 2 tsp per gallon (1/2 strength) / Bone meal for P boost and to correct slightly low ph- 1/2 tsp per gallon / Mollasess 1 tsp per galon / hPeroxide - 1 tsp per gallon /

E-Rate of application
2 gallon pots 1 litr per pot nutes every second watering/ foliar feed every morn with 1/4 strength nute spray

E-Lighting source and distance from plant
400 watt hps 16" from plants

E-Air temperature (both day and night if you are running a dark period)
84 *

E-Air % Relative humidity
42

E-Lighting schedule
12/12

E-Type of ventilation your room has
closet grow with atic access fully open for ventilation / exhaust . Intake air from 1" by 36" . 2 ocilating fans directed over the plants and towords the light bulb


SCLR-Soil or slab runoff pH

6.2 ish last time i re planted, need to get a new kit to test again soon.


E-Source water pH
7 ish

[jessejames12345]

Things look a bit better today . I cut a new intake hole last night in the wall near the plants. There is no dedicated fan there yet, but I could tell the temps were lower this morning , and the air felt 'fresher'

Any sugestions on getting them to space out a bit between nodes. On one of the plants , I can count at least 5 nodes in 3 inches of growth, and all of those nodes are starting secondary growth now...its like a rats nest in there ;)

[Mr. Clandestine]

What's your water source? Is it tap water, or something purified like distilled/reverse osmosis water?

[jessejames12345]

its just local tap water . PH reads 'about' 7 ... I need a more acurate PH meter :wtf:

[Mr. Clandestine]

its just local tap water . PH reads 'about' 7 ... I need a more acurate PH meter :wtf:

LOL... you and me both, brother!

Glad your babies are feeling better, though. As for encouraging stretching in veg, you could try raising the lights a bit... but I wouldn't bother with it if I were you. I'm assuming you'll be initiating flowering using your HPS, and if so, you should get plenty of stretch in the first week. Adding a slightly higher ratio of Nitrogen to Phosphorus-Potassium will also encourage extra foliage growth, and should help with that yellowing, if you're still experiencing it. Besides that, you're doing a good job training them and keeping the canopy fairly even.

Keep it up, I wish ya all the best! :thumbsup:

[jessejames12345]

Thanks :) I re-poted last night in to their final homes (3 gallon) and did one final LST .

Cool to see the different traits of the plants, almost seems like 2 different strains LOL

So... curling of the leaves like that (from the first images) can be normal ?

[daihashi]

Thanks :) I re-poted last night in to their final homes (3 gallon) and did one final LST.


Good, because you had the beginning signs of being rootbound. I have alot of personal experience with rootbound plants. lol

:thumbsup:

[Mr. Clandestine]

So... curling of the leaves like that (from the first images) can be normal ?

Actually, Nitrogen deficiency can cause the tips of the leaves to curl downwards, and judging from the slight yellowing you had leads me to think that this may have been the cause. I've read that Sulfur deficiency can also cause similar symptoms, but that's much less common than a N-def.

I've also noticed that higher temperatures (85F and above) can cause the leaf tips to droop, as well as overfeeding with nutrients. If at all possible, keep your temperatures at 80F or slightly below, which is an optimal range. And stick to a dedicated feeding regimen, as opposed to heavy feedings here and there. Plants respond really well to an implemented schedule, and can sometimes get stressed from irregular feedings.

Glad you repotted, too. Rootbound plants will generally show a whole mess of symptoms, leading the grower to add all sorts of excess nutrients that aren't necessary. Give it a week or two after the repot, and see how things progress.

Take care. :jointsmile:

[jessejames12345]

Ok good to hear . I' ll keep you all posted. I have a log going if you want to check in over there :)

peace
:jointsmile:

http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-log/155232-time-12-12-little-hash-plant-bushes.html

[jessejames12345]

Hey all, Im still having a hell of a time with this plant, ...and it seems to be spreading on now to the plant behind it.

I gave her a flush last week, with 1/4 nutes following, and since then , been regular feed sched.( been fed once again since then, reg strngth)
The whole plant just has a general 'lite green-yellowing' color compared to her sis's. Plus many of the leaves are littered with these lite brown spots, and are dry and rough compared to the softness of the other leaves.

I just did a ph test. One of those tests where you drop the powder from the pill in the water and shake.....anyways, my tap water ph was about 7.5 ...ouch...but my runoff from the sickest plant was ok , ..about 6.5'ish.
So Im not quite sure what to do now with her, shes' been sick with this weirdness for weeks...i dont want to flush again, and the runoff ph tells me i dont need to ????

Im just more concerned that the plant behind her is starting to show similiar signs, ..and shes an ass kicker plant, ..huge potential...I REALLY dont want her to get the same probs.
Are they defficiant ? Ive read SOO many over nuting horror stories, a lot more then under nuting anyways, Im hesitant to dump more nutes on them....

sorry Ive been long worded...I ...again...blame the AJHaze :rastasmoke:

[jessejames12345]

[attachment=o189614]

[attachment=o189615]

[Rusty Trichome]

How often do you add nutes, and what is the N-P-K numbers on them? Sounds and looks like you are giving too much humidity, too much heat, and likely overfeeding. You mention foliar feeding daily at 1/4 strength. This may be the problem. 1/4 strength, four times a week=100%. 1/4 strength, 7 times a week=way too much)

Living in the desert with an outdoor flower room, I usually never give the ladies anything foliar, except perhaps an occational spray to correct any deficiencies (usually nitrogen) that may occour. But when I do spray, I raise the lights till all is evaporated. (The little drops of water act like millions of tiny magnifying lenses)

I would recommend going with a regular feeding schedule without the foliar. Especially if you are having heat issues. (steamed cannabis doesn't grow well)

[jessejames12345]

your right i do think the foliar might be the problem, The little brown 'spots' on the leaves, could these be burns form the spray ? could this be why the leaves feel crispy on this plant ?

The temps @ canopy are right around 80.

Im feeding

shultz african violet @1/2 strenght 8-14-9
Awessome bloosm @1/2 2-11-11
mollases 1 tbls
h202 1 tbls

all this is per gallon of water, every 3rd feed straight water.

Im at 5 weeks flower.

[Rusty Trichome]

Curious why the hydrogen peroxide? Seems a bit much, but then I don't use any.

I'm not familiar with the nutes, but on each label, what are the recommended doses, and for every how often? Are you using half-strength of each to compensate for each other's possible inadequacies...? Some are indicated (labeled) for application every week on 'normal' houseplants, some are labeled for every two weeks. If there is a difference, adjustments are likely necessary.

[jessejames12345]

the h202 , well I read that it help get oxegen to the roots, but who knows

Im mixing both to get a more complete feeding, as the Awesome blossom lacks trace minerals, but defiantly not being very scientifc about it :jointsmile:

Im just going over the recomended dosages, and for the MG its every watering 7 drops per litre. Ive been using half that.

For the AB, it says 5 drops per litre for 'low light ' plants 10 for 'bright light' plants. Ive been giving half here too.

The foliar mixture Ive been spraying is my 1/2 nute mixture, diluted again with half water.

When I spray the plants, I lightly mist over the entire canopy about 10 -15 sprays.

Thanks for all the help Rusty :)

[Rusty Trichome]

Would ditch the H2O2 and foliar, and see what happens. Plants have evolved to feed themselves thru their roots. So to me, it's likely the best way to feed 'em. Since they are getting their nutes thru the roots, no real need for foliar, especially if the plant is already stressed. Do you rinse the leaves after foliar to reduce build-up and (chemical) leaf burn?

Can you find Superthrive, or some other form of micro-nutes? If so, would ditch the

Some folks do a foliar-only regimin, but those folks generally have their shit dialed-in, have a broader knowlege of the products they are working with, and know what their ladies like. (they know the why-for's and how-to's)

My ladies tell me they prefer the lower humidity in flower. I live in the desert where obviously it gets very hot and very dry. In my outdoor flower room the summer humidity inside ranges from below 15% (before watering) to 40%. (after watering or flushing) I use no humidifier, and I rarely foliar unless it's necessary to correct a defeciency. Especially with the heat, and possible heat burn or mold issues excessive humidity can cause.

Also, do you check your ties often, to make sure none of the twist-ties or string is cutting into the branches?

[Rusty Trichome]

Crap...wasn't done with the edit...

Anyway, I was just adding that some nutes aren't compatible with each other. Especially with different brands. So ditching one of yours and adding Superthrive to your regimin (as directed on bottle) is likely a better method.

I'd start by removing the the African Violet mix. It appears to have too much nitrogen for flower stage anyway. (and not quite enough for veg)

I hope all works out for ya...:thumbsup:

[jessejames12345]

Im not sure if I can get superthrive here where I live, but Ill do some reaserch and try to find something alternative. Foliar out, Violet out, h2o2 out, mollases ??

Do you recomend a flush on the 2 sick plants ?

[Weedhound]

I'd stop ALL nutes, flush with ph correct water and then get something BESIDES schultz or miracle grow and use that at 1/4 strength (at correct ph) ONCE. The more things your add the worse the plants are getting. I seriously think Rusty is correct...you need a lot LESS not a lot more. ;)

Good luck.

[Weedhound]

Your 15 percent humidity also bites......you need to get that alot closer to 30-35% and have it stay close to that 24/7....not hopping around from 15% all over the board. :)

[jessejames12345]

OK , thanks guys ( and girls ;) I will flush tonight when the lights come on tonight and seriously tone down all feeding for a while.

Yea Rusty, your grow enviroment is testemant to the hardiness of our beloved little plant :)

Thanks again

[Weedhound]

Hope that works for you. Let us know.

[Rusty Trichome]

Your 15 percent humidity also bites......you need to get that alot closer to 30-35% and have it stay close to that 24/7....not hopping around from 15% all over the board. :)
Alas, were this a perfect world, I'd be inclined to agree.
I've mentioned this before, but good luck telling me I can't do something that I've been doing for years quite successfully. Not much I can do about local the weather except to patiently adapt and compensate. (while smoking some awesome home grown) :jointsmile:

Is what I do optimal...? Yes, I feel that for my grow conditions it is.

Am I successful growing a bit hotter, a bit drier...? Yup. But I also compensate. (raising lights a bit, more aggressive fan blowing heat up from top of canopy, only one HPS on at a time, on 6 hour shifts, adding a bit more water to the daily schedule, split nutes to twice a week, instead of once a week, flushes every few weeks or so to help lower root zones to get some fresh 'stuff'...) Adds a week or two to the schedule, but my methods work fine.

Would I rather I had a better A/C, to cool the room down better or a self-filling humidifier...? Possibly. But there's a bunch of shit around the house I just can't afford, and have learned to do without. A better heater for the winter months would be nice, too.
Am I going to get anal-retentive, and not grow because I can't afford a lab-quality grow enviornment...? No, I just make do with what I have to work with. :thumbsup:

I guess while some are worried about what they can't provide, my approach is to see what I can provide. It has worked well enough for me so far, that I even have the freedom to experiment.

My grow logs:
http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-log/146765-rusty-s-bonsai-downsizing.html

http://boards.cannabis.com/advanced-techniques/152079-rusty-s-re-veg.html

[Weedhound]

Yes but you aren't having grow issues either....;) :)

[jessejames12345]

I got a question for ya , while i sit here and wait for the lights to come back on ;)

So Im going to flush tonight with 3 * growing medium , water only with ph corrected to what level ?

Im starting to really realize how important ph really is, even more than lights sometimes ;)

right now, my tap water ph is around 7.5 , i dont have THE most accurate tester, but i take the results 3 times and average.

my run off ph , from this sick plant, is around 6.5. From what I read thats optimal ?

that means my soil is lowering my ph by one whole point . Im no chemist, but wouldent that mean I should flush with just regular tap water, not ph corrected ? If my tap water makes my runoff = optimal .

Sorry , i know thats a noobish question, and ,for the record i AM going to flush with phCorrect water cause my inner voice (weedhound, rusty) tells me its the right thing to do ...., Im just more interested in the 'why' of it all...

THANKS:jointsmile:

[Rusty Trichome]

Well...a slightly high ph (over 7.2ish, I believe) or slightly low ph (6.2ish, I think, lol) can stress the roots, making nutrient uptake more difficult, as it tries to deal with the imbalance. (results in nute lock-out)

As time rolls on, the ph in peat based soil mixes tend to go south, but unless re-using your soil it should be ok for a season. I don't usually have problems, but I do flush regularly.

[Weedhound]

Oh I completely agree.....I love ph myself and love to test it and adjust it and do all sorts of cool things with it. And yep....it will certainly affect your nute uptake which is why adding more and more nutes doesn't help and may even hurt.

Sounds to me like Rusty has your back jessie. :thumbsup:

[jessejames12345]

OK team , ;) ...heres where Im at...They still look like they got the crap kick out'em ...OUCH

Almost ALL of the main leaves are covered in dark brown burn, most of the plant has an overall 'yellowish' appearance, ....

Yea dosent get much worse then that ;)

They DID seem to perk up after the flush a few days ago, and I dont THINK that the damage is spreading, ...but not totatly sure , they just look sooo bad compared to their sis's

[attachment=o189993]

[attachment=o189994]

[attachment=o189995]

[attachment=o189996]

[jessejames12345]

Yea, ...on 2 of the BEST plants so far,...getting out the tweezers...this is shitty :(

[jessejames12345]

OK so i pulled around 5 nann's of of one plants, and 2-3 off another. None of the other plants are showing any from what I can tell, ...argggg

I all so pulled out about 5 pre-me seeds between the 2 plants that were right around where the nanns were.

So , now what ? Im only about 2 weeks from harvest i guess.

:(

[Rusty Trichome]

Bummer. Likely it's from earlier nute and or heat stresses. Kinda looks like potassium defeciency with a bit of heat stress, but my guess would be nute lockout in general. Takes a couple of days to see improvement after a flush, so try to be patient.

Which plants have the nanners? What's the temp near the top of your canopy? If problem is from an external source, determining this sometimes helps with troubleshooting. ie: If it's the ones in front, could be a light leak. If it's the ones in back or in a dead-zone that collects heat, might be a lack of air circulation problem. If it's the ones closest to light, might still be a heat issue.


Would keep picking, and look for signs of improvement in overall health. With all these changes, have you been letting the soil dry between flushing and watering? Through all this the roots still need fresh air, and overwatering can accelerate problems you're trying to fix. (root rot)

[jessejames12345]

I did lower the light a bit a few days back, so I'll double check the canopy temps.

Well heres where I admit my BADDDDD grower mistake :(

I never bought a light timer, just figured I could plug in at 8;00pm and unplug at 8;00am

WELL 8;00 would sometimes turn in to 8;15 , or 8;10, ans then 8;15 in the morning, ect ect. I never figured that a 15 minutes here and there would make that much of a deal ?
COULD this be a hermi maker?

THANKS, oh and from this moment on, the timer is pluged in now....better late then never..:stoned:

[Rusty Trichome]

<DOH>

Yup, could be one source of your nanners problem, but already stressed plants respond fairly quickly to additional stresses. Hopefully, now you've got 'em on the right track you'll see some improvements. A few seeds isn't a catastrophe, but would be vigilant with the nanners. (they occationally hide in the buds, too)

Some in here freak, but I'd like to take this opportunity to point-out that if you get any pollen releases, the seeds will be female. Personally, if it's likely the nanners were a result of external stresses and not from poor genetics, I'd grow them out if they are mature enough to do so. Especially if they are from a particularly nice plant. There are many methods of making femmed seeds, and to my knowledge, each of them require some form of stress to induce the nanners. (including over-ripening, light poisoning, certain chemicals...)

This is a prime example of why all info is necessary to help. It's a good idea to fess-up if you want quick, accurate responses, lol. Best not to let Pride cometh before the nanners...

If you were to go to an auto repair shop, and all you tell them is that your car won't start, they can give you a list of possible causes, but without all of the facts, the list of fixes would be a long one, and likely costly.
But if you were to go into that shop and tell them your car won't start, but yesterday you accidentally filled the gas tank with (ph'd)water, likely they could diagnose the problem on the first try. (if not, would find another auto shop)

Anyway, let us know what happens from here.:thumbsup:

[jessejames12345]

ok, pride checked at the door ;)

Found a small light leak as well, and covered that last night.

Found a few more nans last night on one plant, the others seem clear, for now. I am looking forward to having a few seeds of this one plant its really an ass kicker !

Ill keep you posted , 2 weeks till harvest , maybe, I'm gonna really watch tricomes on them and harvest at least 20% amber. I have anxiety disorder and a nice heavy indica makes everything right :)

[wayward]

this thread is a great example why putting powder fert in an adequate amount mixed in the potting soil is a great way to go. No more guess work. Very little chance for deficiencies or overferting. All you do is water the plants when the soil is dry. Jesse, next time your potting plants, get a box of a fert like Foxfarm or Whitney Farms Organic powder fert. You could try Dr. Earth too, but I think the prices on this Effectnet (below) website are expensive. I used these webpages here just to show you what to look for.
Dr. Earth Organic Fertilizer Products (http://www.effectnet.com/dbnsy/dr_earth/drearth.html)

you could get the blue box on the right at a local store:
Whitney Farms : The Scotts Miracle-Gro Company : (http://www.scotts.com/smg/brand/whitneyFarms/whitneyFarms.jsp?detailId=600012)

With these ferts I'd use 5 gallon buckets putting about half to two-thirds cup of powder fert in the lower half of the bucket along with potting soil, then fill the remainder of the bucket with potting soil and mix in about half cup of powder fert. You can get some Maxicrop seaweed powder and mix a teaspoon or so into the BOTTOM half of the soil if you want. That's all you should need for your next grow. It sounds simple and it is simple. This will take alot of guess work out of your next grow. Just be sure not to use a potting soil full of nutes, like Miracle Grow.

For Foxfarm's fert, you can look here to see what the packages are like.
FoxFarm Soil & Fertilizer Company (http://www.foxfarmfertilizer.com/products_pom1.html)
I use the last one, Fruit and Flower 5-8-4 and it's great. You can use the all purpose if you want but I would get Fruit if you can find it. The difference in these ferts tends to be what the source of nutes is, like Whitney Farms uses chicken shit and Foxfarm uses bat shit if I recall correctly. There are microbes (bacteria) included in each box to break the fert down so the plants can use the nutes. this is probably the most important element in these ferts. If you want a very fast grow time, you need to look at using chemical ferts that are complete, i.e., have alot of nutes in them and dissolve easily in water. The powders do not dissolve easily, thus bacteria has to use some time to break the stuff down but it will work for you just fine if you can wait for your plants to grow. Organic ferts really are the way to go. You'll get better results.
I understand that some here will argue with what I've posted here but so be it. What I've written works for me, so I put it here.
On your current problem, I think Rusty is right about overferting, especially foliar, which should only be used to quickly correct a deficiency and no more than a couple times. I don't know if flushing your soil is going to help as the problem is directly at the leaves, and apparently not in the soil. You can try flushing the soil but there's no guarantee it will help. Looks like just stopping the foliar and letting some time pass, and maybe spraying the leaves with plain water is the thing to do.

[jessejames12345]

Thanks for the Idea Wayward;

I have learned so much this grow, as I've spent most of it chasing my mistakes ;)

I think this harvest is going to come out oK , but next one will be even better, this site is an amazing resource with helpfull and great people , wish I could lite one with ya all :jointsmile:

edit;

heres one of the HEALTHY girls :)
[attachment=o190434]

[Rusty Trichome]

JJ: Cool. The more kinks you smooth out in your technique and enviornment, the easier this stuff gets. Likely you'll see a few more nanners before all is said and done. Good luck with that 'waiting till trichomes turn amber' stuff. My brain starts drooling early in the milky stages, lol.

ww: First-off, I do appreciate you mentioning that you think I'm right. But, let me get this straight. To overcome a couple of minor problems, all he has to do is change everything from technique to nutes...?
<sigh>
Posting your grow techniques in someone elses plant problem post, is likely best done once. While you are at it tho, would you like to take this opportunity to tell him how to re set-up his growspace, and which strains to grow next, and perhaps get him to change his lighting, too?
I saw what looked like this same manifesto yesterday in another post. Did you copy and paste this from yesterday's post, or did you type this crap all over again here?

In simple, no-nonsense terms...How does what you posted help, with the conditions indicated in JJ's posts? This isn't a re-vamp your technique and change everything forum, it's a troubleshooting forum.

[wayward]

I'm not here to piss people off, even though it might seem like it. I admit that I got off to a bit of a bad start but that's because I didn't word one of my first sentences in a way I really wanted to. What's done is done and I can't fix that now.

Rusty writes:
"But, let me get this straight. To overcome a couple of minor problems, all he has to do is change everything from technique to nutes...?"

First off, his pics don't look like minor problems. I think the plants can recover, but right now it looks like they're starting to die. The reason for this is probably what you wrote about, the frequent foliar fert issue. I agree with your diagnosis. But I didn't specifically say "change everything." I see where you're coming from though. Please understand that what I'm suggesting isn't much of a change. If a grower already grows in soil, what I'm suggesting is to put the fert in the soil before the plant, using a certain kind and in a certain amount, then seeing the results. What I'm trying to say is - people have a tendency to be too involved in their grow. There's an impulse to do more to make it better but I suspect that all we need to do is create a situation for plants that mimics nature. Most plants outside don't get foliar feedings. No one checks the pH. Plants depend on all-organic ferts (old dead plant material) to feed themselves. It works.


"Posting your grow techniques in someone elses plant problem post, is likely best done once."

The only way that will work is if Stinkyattic gives me a sticky thread and I don't think she will. What if Jesse didn't see the earlier thread? I wanted Jesse to know there is another way. People use a variety of ways that work, but it seems like the more involved the grower is, the greater the likelihood for problems and that why I started my post above with "this thread is a great example of using powder fert in soil." This method takes out alot of the guesswork. However, if the grow is to be of short duration, it should be understood that chemial ferts might be better, as the dissolve quickly in water and become available to the roots just as fast. Powders require time for bacteria to break them down. That's why the powders tend to come with microbes (bacteria)" to do that work.

"While you are at it tho, would you like to take this opportunity to tell him how to re set-up his growspace, and which strains to grow next, and perhaps get him to change his lighting, too?
I saw what looked like this same manifesto yesterday in another post."

Yes, you did see it. I gave it to someone else, but so what? A person may or may not use the idea as they wish. I'm not twisting anyone's arm to use this idea. But again, it works for me and others, and it will work for you too provided you have time to let the plants grow. I have no intention of telling Jesse to change growspace or anything else, unless of course it looks like a problem. In Jesse's response, he says "thanks" and that he's been chasing problems this grow. I don't know about that, but the foliar feeding is too much. I suspect he can reduce the chasing by putting adequate fert in the soil and leave it be. I don't know why your exaggerating my post. Relax, smoke a bowl, feel mellow....



"Did you copy and paste this from yesterday's post, or did you type this crap all over again here?"

I typed, using my thumbs. :thumbsup:


"In simple, no-nonsense terms...How does what you posted help, with the conditions indicated in JJ's posts? This isn't a re-vamp your technique and change everything forum, it's a troubleshooting forum"

What I posted won't help his current plants. My idea will work only with the potting of fresh plants or repotting small plants into larger containers. That's why in the first paragraph I wrote the following: "Jesse, next time your potting plants, get a box of a fert..." Take another look and see it there. I've used these ferts outside for flowers and they work great. I get exactly the results I was hoping for. I have one rose bush in a large container with more of the powder fert I've written about, and that rose is kicking ass. I can even show a pic if you want to see what I mean. The help from me will come when Jesse pots plants again and follows the recipe. It will work provided it's a grow several months long. It's not my idea to revamp or change everything. All I'm saying is - change this one thing and watch what happens. That's it. Rusty, you could try it too, you know? Just one plant is all it will take. You'll see. But you probably have a good grow as it is, since you know what you're doing.

[wayward]

I'm not here to piss people off, even though it might seem like it. I admit that I got off to a bit of a bad start but that's because I didn't word one of my first sentences in a way I really wanted to. What's done is done and I can't fix that now.

Rusty writes:
"But, let me get this straight. To overcome a couple of minor problems, all he has to do is change everything from technique to nutes...?"

First off, his pics don't look like minor problems. I think the plants can recover, but right now it looks like they're starting to die. The reason for this is probably what you wrote about, the frequent foliar fert issue. I agree with your diagnosis. But I didn't specifically say "change everything." I see where you're coming from though. Please understand that what I'm suggesting isn't much of a change. If a grower already grows in soil, what I'm suggesting is to put the fert in the soil before the plant, using a certain kind and in a certain amount, then seeing the results. What I'm trying to say is - people have a tendency to be too involved in their grow. There's an impulse to do more to make it better but I suspect that all we need to do is create a situation for plants that mimics nature. Most plants outside don't get foliar feedings. No one checks the pH. Plants depend on all-organic ferts (old dead plant material) to feed themselves. It works.


"Posting your grow techniques in someone elses plant problem post, is likely best done once."

The only way that will work is if Stinkyattic gives me a sticky thread and I don't think she will. What if Jesse didn't see the earlier thread? I wanted Jesse to know there is another way. People use a variety of ways that work, but it seems like the more involved the grower is, the greater the likelihood for problems and that why I started my post above with "this thread is a great example of using powder fert in soil." This method takes out alot of the guesswork. However, if the grow is to be of short duration, it should be understood that chemial ferts might be better, as the dissolve quickly in water and become available to the roots just as fast. Powders require time for bacteria to break them down. That's why the powders tend to come with microbes (bacteria)" to do that work.

"While you are at it tho, would you like to take this opportunity to tell him how to re set-up his growspace, and which strains to grow next, and perhaps get him to change his lighting, too?
I saw what looked like this same manifesto yesterday in another post."

Yes, you did see it. I gave it to someone else, but so what? A person may or may not use the idea as they wish. I'm not twisting anyone's arm to use this idea. But again, it works for me and others, and it will work for you too provided you have time to let the plants grow. I have no intention of telling Jesse to change growspace or anything else, unless of course it looks like a problem. In Jesse's response, he says "thanks" and that he's been chasing problems this grow. I don't know about that, but the foliar feeding is too much. I suspect he can reduce the chasing by putting adequate fert in the soil and leave it be. I don't know why your exaggerating my post. Relax, smoke a bowl, feel mellow....



"Did you copy and paste this from yesterday's post, or did you type this crap all over again here?"

I typed, using my thumbs. :thumbsup:


"In simple, no-nonsense terms...How does what you posted help, with the conditions indicated in JJ's posts? This isn't a re-vamp your technique and change everything forum, it's a troubleshooting forum"

What I posted won't help his current plants. My idea will work only with the potting of fresh plants or repotting small plants into larger containers. That's why in the first paragraph I wrote the following: "Jesse, next time your potting plants, get a box of a fert..." Take another look and see it there. I've used these ferts outside for flowers and they work great. I get exactly the results I was hoping for. I have one rose bush in a large container with more of the powder fert I've written about, and that rose is kicking ass. I can even show a pic if you want to see what I mean. The help from me will come when Jesse pots plants again and follows the recipe. It will work provided it's a grow several months long. It's not my idea to revamp or change everything. All I'm saying is - change this one thing and watch what happens. That's it. Rusty, you could try it too, you know? Just one plant is all it will take. You'll see. But you probably have a good grow as it is, since you know what you're doing.

[stinkyattic]

What I posted won't help his current plants..You're right. So instead of replying to threads trying to convert people to your method, without helping the specific issue they need covered, you need to start your own thread, once, setting forth your method, and allowing members to discuss it with you.
You ever hear the French term 'Idee fixe'?

[Rusty Trichome]

Sorry for the intrusion, JJ.

ww: So all this was an effort to get Stinky to notice you so you could ask her to sticky the technique? Doubtful.

I had a strong feeling that what you wrote wasn't exactly how you intended it to sound. But in my opinion, that wasn't necessarily where the problem was.

However, there was more than one posted attempt to get you to understand that there was a probability that your statements, as being from an unknown newcomer, would likely be taken the wrong way. I for one, didn't appreciate the implications presented, nor was the link appropriate when coupled with your words, and you were given every opportunity to rectify the situation, and explain.
But after a senior member let you know the same thing, and you insult her, correct grammar or spelling or whatever, I'm really surprised you are still here. I'm not a mod, and probably it's a good thing, too. With your multi-pronged indignation and my pride in this site and those that run it...you'd have been gone already.

I'll have to go back and look, but isn't yours the same technique as the 3lb in sealed-room set-up...minus the CO2?
Hmmm.......

[stinkyattic]

Just reviewed the thread again.
Heat and too much nitrogen are combining to give the dull, lifeless, appearance to your leaves. Be very careful with superthrive, because it adds more N than you would like in flower, and I'd use it next time during veg if you like that idea. A silicate supplement like Silica Blast is something to consider, to help your plants tolerate higher temps, and you want to add humidity to about 30-40% rh.
You don't need to foliar feed. But a foliar treatment with SMC leaf wash would help restore the glossy appearance and keep the leaves from losing moisture so rapidly in the dry air. It's 100% safe to use in flower and has a sweet, agreeable scent since it's just coriander oil. Smells like prep time at an Indian restaurant, lol!

[jessejames12345]

That must be why I like indian food so much ;)

Thanks for the suggestions, those are 2 things I would have never though of. I didn't add superthrive yet, since the flush, just mollases and 1/2 nutes (2-11-11) .

I dont think I want to feed anymore ? ...being that Im about 2 weeks from harvest ?

Or should I feed a bit longer, and then just do a MASSIVE flush before I stick them in 36 hours dark at the end.

[stinkyattic]

You are entering the flush time, and they have been feeding heavily all along- the amount of N in the plants' tissues needs to come down to avoid harsh flavors, so at this point just make the plants use up what they already have stored.
Remember in future grows also that N tells the plant 'grow leaves!' so using less in flower will reduce your bushiness but increase bud mass.

[jessejames12345]

Cool, thanks for the clarification, ...flush time it is :)

I am going to continue on from here in my original grow log....Please feel free to follow up over there


http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-log/155232-time-12-12-little-hash-plant-bushes-3.html


Peace :rastasmoke:
JJ

[jessejames12345]

Can I flush again SO soon ?


The larger of the sick girls has lost almost ALL her fan leaves now :(

They go dark brown down the center, and then curl up, crisp up , and dye. The buds seem OK, but Im sure they are next. This plant is dying , and fast.

So I think I want to flush , again ? Shes still a little moist from the last watering, and I just flushed last week. Can I do it again ?

I just want to do all I can to help her survive the next few weeks. Or is she a lost cause at this point :(

[stinkyattic]

can you get pics of how the dark brown looks? It's either a severe deficiency or lockout, or a symptom of rot.
Remember to review the flushing sticky- a flush ends with a weak feed of your base fert- about 1/2 the recommended dosage- at correct pH.

Edit: Your last post that said you are within 2 weeks of harvest- but here you say a few weeks- if you have more than 2 weeks you should keep feeding your bloom fert with every watering.

[jessejames12345]

I'll get some pics tonight when the lights come back on. ...its not pretty though , just to warn you ...the Poor girl :(


...edit

the rest of the plants are within 2 weeks Id say, but this sick girl is developing much slower then her sis, always has. My last watering she got bloom fert @ 1/2 strenght. She got 1/4 strength @ the last flush as well.

Thanks Stinky:hippy:

[jessejames12345]

OK, so lights come back on in a few , but I had a question before.

Is it to late to Re Plant , if I need. I have always found that a re plant refreshes these plants. I have re planted often to keep the plants closest to the light.

Anyways , this plant seems to be about a week behind the other 5 in terms of maturity. SO about 3 weeks untill maturity.

Has she been stressed to much to replant, ..might it help ( into a 5 gallon )

Thanks, Pics in about, 20 minutes

[jessejames12345]

[attachment=o190687]

[attachment=o190688]

Naked and sick , I feel bad for her but am comitted to doing what ever i can to get her through the next few weeks. Can she still even grow with so few fan leaves ?

more flushing ? , re plant even ? or just leave her be for the next few weeks and do better next time :thumbsup:



edit.
No dude you werent an asshole to me at all :) any problems that may exist outside this thread have notin to do with me :hippy:, but I DO appreciate any and all advice and weigh it all on my end before i act :hippy:

[stinkyattic]

Post removed (wayward) as it references a flame war in another thread. DO NOT do this.

[jessejames12345]

So Stinky , what you think , any chance to bring her ' back from the dead '

Im want to do all I can :D


Thanks :jointsmile:

[Weedhound]

If Stinky is thinking root rot I'd grab a zyme product and start using it asap.

[stinkyattic]

That damage actually looks like you are not giving enough Calcium, or it is locked out somehow (low pH...?).
It's not too late to re-plant, adn you could really help the plant by giving it some fresh soil and a larger pot.

[jessejames12345]

I will re pot tonight, maybe 2 of them there is another big girl in the other corner , she aint sick (wood knock) but Im sure would like the extra room as well :)

Ill check all PH levels again tonight when I re plant and report back. I have not been using CalMag or any cal supliment. But am using tap water. Quite possible my tapwater is fucked, tap ph is 7.2 ?

Anything you sugest for a 'homegrown' cal supliment if I cant track down any calmag ?


Thanks again :hippy:



edit;

Weedhound , zyme ? sorry, still NEWB ;) I'll reaserch a bit

[stinkyattic]

Tap water that high should have plenty of Ca in it (CaCO3 is what drives the pH of tap water up in many, many cases) but that pH is too high for plants and will need to be adjusted down to about 6.7 before use.