Growing ethics

[Opie Yutts]

As I was walking around yesterday looking for stealthy new places for my biggest grow yet, I started wondering why it seems OK with most people to grow on someone else's property without their knowledge. Try to mention a person growing in their parent's home without their knowledge and you'll get crucified, yet it seems to be perfectly fine to guerrilla grow. Why? I realize there are obvious differences, but isn't it essentially the same concept?

[psychocat]

As I was walking around yesterday looking for stealthy new places for my biggest grow yet, I started wondering why it seems OK with most people to grow on someone else's property without their knowledge. Try to mention a person growing in their parent's home without their knowledge and you'll get crucified, yet it seems to be perfectly fine to guerrilla grow. Why? I realize there are obvious differences, but isn't it essentially the same concept?

I would have to agree with you on that.

[Opie Yutts]

I tried to make a thread yesterday, and either I was too stoned to press the submit button, or it got deleted. I can't imagine why the latter would be the case so I'll try again. By the way, where did the rules go? I'm pretty sure I didn't violate any rules, but I tried to check anyway and couldn't find them. Seems like that should be a big link in bold somewhere.

Anyway, I was hoping to get some thoughts from people on the ethics of guerrilla growing, which is growing on someone else's property without consent from the owner. I'm about to embark on my biggest outdoor grow yet, which may require some alternative grow locations. I was wondering how ethical this is, and to what extent the land owner would be put in danger.

Guerrilla growing is commonly talked about in books and forums and isn't frowned upon as is something like growing in your parent's home without their consent. It seems like we either have a double standard or... we have a double standard. Why will I have my balls handed to me on a platter if I mention growing in my parents home, but everyone is just fine with me growing outdoors on someone else's property? I just don't get it. It seems like basically the same thing too me, and if that gets my thread deleted then so be it. Seems ridiculous, but so be it.

I have legitimate questions and concerns, and it would be very helpful if this forum were allowed to serve it's purpose and help me out a little.

[jagarr]

well i've never done any serious growing myself... so you can throw this right out the window if you like.

but IMO, if you can't grow without putting anyone else in the line of fire, then don't grow.

get a place, then grow in peace. id be mad if i was you and thats all anyone told me when i asked.. but i think its true/smart.

[Dutch Pimp]

Anyway, I was hoping to get some thoughts from people on the ethics of guerrilla growing, which is growing on someone else's property without consent from the owner. I'm about to embark on my biggest outdoor grow yet, which may require some alternative grow locations. I was wondering how ethical this is, and to what extent the land owner would be put in danger.

I have some opinions/thoughts on this Opie.

but...I will wait until I see if this thread passes muster first...:cool: tomorrow afternoon. I saw the first thread. I doubt it will fly.
Maybe, the outdoor growing forum would have been a better choice...more, "under the radar"?

[Dutch Pimp]

Well, it made it this far...

I think guerrilla growing should be limited to public land or absentee land owners.

[stinkyattic]

I just found these and moved them to 'outdoor'. I'm interested in discussing this concept. In 'A Grower's Code of Ethics' posted as a sticky in the main grow information lounge, I got into that a bit.

I think it's best to grow on public lands, or lands owned by a large enough corporate entity that no small landowner will be implicated in illegal activities should your grow be discovered. I'd feel wrong about a) trespassing to grow and b) putting the homeowner at risk to be caught up in a potentially expensive and embarrassing legal situation not of his own doing.

[texas grass]

i think stinky said what i was thinking

dont risk personal property, if anything risk comercial/government property

[moshmonkey]

im just about to plant my first seeds for growth and it took a long time to find a good place because for one, i dont want to get in trouble and id hate to get someone completely innocent in trouble so ive selected a nice forest that doesnt belong to anyone in the area and as far as i know its owned by the local council, but has NEVER been touched.

[jsn9333]

Someone's home just has more value in the heart of society then their empty, grown over, unused land. A home is... a home. That is why many states have "castle" laws... if someone breaks into your house at night you can shoot their ass... because it is your *home*. You can't shoot someone for trespassing on your land. Land is less valuable and personal. When you violate someone's home you violate something much more sacred then their land.

Another reason growing in your parents home is frowned on is because if you are living with your parents then you are a minor. There is a general belief (and a good one at that) that kids should respect their parents. Growing pot in their house just crosses a line in many peoples heads. The realistic chances of legal action against your parents for your actions are slim, but are still greater then if you just grew on someone's empty land. The cops might do an extensive investigation and waste a bunch of your parents time to hassle them (or to find out if they knew about the grow). They could bring in protective services or something just to hassle the parents for being so ignorant about what you were doing in their own home, etc. Cops can be real dicks sometimes. To grow in your parents home is like saying to your parents, "I don't care if you you might get into a bunch of problems and potentially get your house taken from you because of this... growing weed is more important in my life then you are." It is a huge disrespect.

On the other hand, growing on someone's empty, unused land is one of those things that isn't really hurting anyone. Technically it is illegal, but so is smoking pot in the first place. If the cops find your grow they aren't going to arrest the people who own the land. They might ask them about it, but there would be no grounds to arrest them or even hassle them really. Worst case they would ask the people for the right to do random searches of the empty property now and again. That actually happened to my wife's parents... it was no big deal at all. They have like 90 acres in the forest and hardly ever go out there anyway. The cops just called them on the phone.

The way I see it, the population, through congressional representatives, has given us these horribly hypocritical and backwards laws about marijuana. Therefore, the population can deal with me growing on their empty land. My only other option is to risk my house being taken from me by the government if I grew at home. That is just not an option. I try to grow on land owned by corporations or the government. But I have no problem growing on someone's personal property either, as long as it is undeveloped and not being used or very, very large.

[Dutch Pimp]

I just found these and moved them to 'outdoor'. I'm interested in discussing this concept. In 'A Grower's Code of Ethics' posted as a sticky in the main grow information lounge, I got into that a bit.

I had to bum rush these Kansas City baggie seed plants outdoors, due to circumstances beyond my control. They were under 400HID and 3+ weeks into flowering, when the situation went south.

Anyways, after one week into outdoor life, their doing OK. I assume their too far into flowering to revert back to veg?...if they do......oh well...:)

I hit them with a super dose of bloom nutes (10-52-10) and said goodbye...good luck..:smokin:...any comments?..I never did this before. Their in 3 gallon pots. It's only late April. So far they have survived 42-45 degree temps at night.

Their on an absentee land owners property, that has had the property for sale for the past 10 years. They actually owe me a flavor, about once a year people show up from the city wanting to see the property, but they can't get to it without crossing my property. I don't mind, I tell the city MILF's to come back without the high heeled sneakers and short skirts and I will show them around and allow them to park on my property...:rastabanna:...it's just raw wooded land.

[benvortec]

Hey man, i say fuck the other side! Plant that shit, if the cops are willing to do an extensive search they'll proally put up cameras and shit to find who is actually cultivating the crop not just jump to put the landowner in jail. Atleast here in Kentucky that's how it works usually they'll conspire with the landowner to catch the growers because there is so much guerilla growing. But grow that shit and keep it as low key as possible. best of luck and be as safe as possible :thumbsup::jointsmile:

[Opie Yutts]

I really appreciate everyone's input on this subject, and thank you to the mod that found my original thread and merged the two. And thanks for choosing to not delete them.

I do know what happens around here when outdoor guerrilla grows are discovered. At least that happened to a neighbor. My neighbor has about 150 acres, of which about 1/2 is forest. The cops came and took all the plants once the owner discovered the grow. There was no equipment except a few containers. Nobody was charged since the culprit was never discovered. Seems about right.

I think as long as you don't do obviously stupid stuff, it's a fairly safe endeavor in which both grower and land owner will not be adversely affected. Still thinking and looking for grow areas. More input would be great.

When I'm growing outdoors I:
- have several entry points to the grow to help eliminate paths.
- sweep away foot prints and remove incriminating evidence.
- compromise between camouflaged and full sun plants so they are harder to see from the air.
- spread out plant positions to look natural instead of like a crop.
- duck under some brush and hold completely still if an aircraft approaches.
- use liquid fence. It really seems to keep away rabbits and deer.
- try to grow inside a brier patch or some difficult brush, with a small tunnel for entry.

[moshmonkey]

When I'm growing outdoors I:
- have several entry points to the grow to help eliminate paths.
- sweep away foot prints and remove incriminating evidence.
- compromise between camouflaged and full sun plants so they are harder to see from the air.
- spread out plant positions to look natural instead of like a crop.
- duck under some brush and hold completely still if an aircraft approaches.
- use liquid fence. It really seems to keep away rabbits and deer.
- try to grow inside a brier patch or some difficult brush, with a small tunnel for entry.

good advice, but i find it funny how most of this stuff doesn't apply for me (in Ireland) as most people where i live wouldnt even know what it looks like, no one goes out looking for grows, the idea of cannabis growing outdoor in Ireland is mad to alot of people here, the Irish Gardai have only a few helicopters and they are all used down the south of the country, so no worries here, for an ideal grow place in my area, just make sure no one goes there, the end :pimp:

[stinkyattic]

Hey Opie, glad to help. This is a subject that I feel strongly about too. Actually your posts were deleted I assume because of the trespassing issue, but in light of the fact that it's a topic that really should be discussed openly, I found, restored, and moved them here.

[Opie Yutts]

... the idea of cannabis growing outdoor in Ireland is mad to alot of people here

Any idea why this is? Is the climate wrong, or are there just not a lot of horticulturists? Or not a lot of pot-heads? Sounds like you've got the ideal outdoor grow area.

[Opie Yutts]

Hey Opie, glad to help. This is a subject that I feel strongly about too. Actually your posts were deleted I assume because of the trespassing issue, but in light of the fact that it's a topic that really should be discussed openly, I found, restored, and moved them here.

Thanks stinky. Always the wise one.

[FrostAie]

cant beat ohio for growing unless your in humboldt county california

[SnSstealth]

i would have to agree on the public orperty, or i have done it on corporate property...I tend to look for city property or down here, i got a buddy that i canoe out to a small island and check his plants..thats the ultimate if you can get there...If you cant grow on your own property, i would say dont put someones else in jeopardy..bad juju and shit...but fuck the man!...lol any corporate, city, public...i am stoner rambling.........
WT

[dgsgandalf]

I don't see anything wrong with growing on other people's land, especially if they don't use MJ ('cause that would look suspicious). If they find the patch, they have several options. They can destroy it themselves, and that's the end of it. They can report it to the cops who will come out and destroy it, maybe question the land owner a bit, then that's the end of it. Or they can leave it alone because they used to be a hippie back in the 70's or something like that, and that's the end of it.

The police cannot convict anyone of a crime without evidence, and if someone doesn't know ganja is being grown on their property, there's a pretty damn good chance there won't be any evidence to convict them of a crime.

I'm growing on someone elses land, and if the worst should happen and they get arrested for it (I would probably hear about it in the newspaper or through the grapevine or something) i would probably go turn myself in and free them of any penalty. The chances of this happening are so remote that i'm not even worried.

Bottom line, i don't think there's any solid ethical principle that decides this issue. Growing is illegal whichever way you look at it, and thus unethical. Determining how unethical something is almost seems like a waste of effort. You have to determine for yourself whether you're willing to break to law and grow pot, like a yes/no question, then determining where is simply multiple choice.

My humble opinion...

[Opie Yutts]

Growing is illegal whichever way you look at it, and thus unethical.

You make a lot of sense, but I disagree that legality and ethics are synonymous. It's illegal to smoke weed, but I don't believe that makes it unethical. It's illegal to fail to stop when exiting your driveway, but it's not unethical. It's illegal to kill a man who's about to rape your daughter, but it's not unethical.

I don't give a crap about the rules "the man" makes for me. I just do what I think is right, and to me that's what's ethical. "The man" is a fucking idiot, and extremely unethical in general. There's no need for me to follow his rules.

[psychocat]

The police cannot convict anyone of a crime without evidence, and if someone doesn't know ganja is being grown on their property, there's a pretty damn good chance there won't be any evidence to convict them of a crime.

Ignorance is not a defence .


I'm growing on someone elses land, and if the worst should happen and they get arrested for it (I would probably hear about it in the newspaper or through the grapevine or something) i would probably go turn myself in and free them of any penalty. The chances of this happening are so remote that i'm not even worried.

What if you find out after the person has been through the distress of arrest and a search of thier home ? You going to compensate them ?
What gives anyone the right to put another in such a situation ?


For those who believe there is nothing wrong in growing on another mans land does that mean I can come and shit in your backyard just because you aren't using it at the moment ?

[SnSstealth]

opie, psycho........well said.
WT

[Opie Yutts]

does that mean I can come and shit in your backyard

As long as you spread it around a little, and mix it with some dead leaves and fir needles. Oh and bring some worm castings if you got em.

[marijuanavillebilly]

i think stinky said what i was thinking

dont risk personal property, if anything risk comercial/government property

LOL! could you imagine a LARGE sativa male that you grew outdoors, then put it in a pot and stuck it ontop of the local PD's roof?

[Opie Yutts]

Please someone do this and take a photo.

[stinkyattic]

Haha I bet they'd take the thing and drive around with it much like a priest walking through the church with an incense burner, blessing our little hidden grows with the gift of SEEDS lol.

[moshmonkey]

Any idea why this is? Is the climate wrong, or are there just not a lot of horticulturists? Or not a lot of pot-heads? Sounds like you've got the ideal outdoor grow area.

in Ireland, the media give the impression that MJ can only be growen in hot climates and is exported here by drug dealers, which obviously is not the case but you will never find a news story saying it was found growing in Ireland.

1 in 6 Irish people have smoked or do smoke so plenty of happy campers.

and yes my growing area is in a beautiful spot, in the middle of a forest with the most amazing views, and yet no body goes there..........its great!!! :hippy:

[psychocat]

I have no problem with people growing on open land but I still believe that by growing on an innocents land then you are endangering them.
I find it unacceptable to risk anothers liberty or to cause them the distress of being arrested and having thier property searched.

[Opie Yutts]

in Ireland, the media give the impression that MJ can only be growen in hot climates and is exported here by drug dealers, which obviously is not the case but you will never find a news story saying it was found growing in Ireland.

1 in 6 Irish people have smoked or do smoke so plenty of happy campers.

and yes my growing area is in a beautiful spot, in the middle of a forest with the most amazing views, and yet no body goes there..........its great!!! :hippy:

Fucking media. I hate the news. This guy raped that girl, these people blew up that school, and here's a bunch of blatant lies about weed. We hope you get sucked into our our little show, even though we make stuff up and sensationalize the things we don't.

When I picture your growing area, I hear some birds in the distance, I see a light fog rolling out and being replaced by sunshine, and a sense of calm comes over me. A deer walks up and gently nuzzles my groin area. We share a joint, she takes me back to here place and I eventually become king of the forest, living in peace and harmony with all the creatures of the forest, which take care of my grows for me and bake me magic brownies. All I have to do is lay in the sun, smoke weed and invent stuff, or paint or write. A few times each week the animals bring me a new human virgin to command and love. Eventually the legend of my doings and my tribe become required reading at all schools and churches. That seems pretty reasonable.

[moshmonkey]

When I picture your growing area, I hear some birds in the distance, I see a light fog rolling out and being replaced by sunshine, and a sense of calm comes over me. A deer walks up and gently nuzzles my groin area. We share a joint, she takes me back to here place and I eventually become king of the forest, living in peace and harmony with all the creatures of the forest, which take care of my grows for me and bake me magic brownies. All I have to do is lay in the sun, smoke weed and invent stuff, or paint or write. A few times each week the animals bring me a new human virgin to command and love. Eventually the legend of my doings and my tribe become required reading at all schools and churches. That seems pretty reasonable.


bloody hell thats weird! that happened me yesterday :D

[Opie Yutts]

LOL. Really.