Second Season Outdoor Multi-Strain Grow

[Delta9Haze420]

Last season turned out quite nice with a first grow using a single strain - Kali Mist. The yield was decent and the quality was outstanding. The grow began with four plants, two surviving to harvest.

This year, the grow consists of multiple strains, and will be completely outdoor. The strains are as follows:


Durban Poison - 4 seedlings
Northern Lights - 4 seedlings
Big Bud - 4 seedlings
Mexican Brick - 4 seedlings


These have all germinated and been placed in their respective grow sites. Most have spread their cotyledons and the first node leaves are starting to provide some photosynthetic support to the plant. The rest are expected to follow suit shortly. The time is 6 days post germination, 3 days post soil placement. They have risen up quicker than expected, and the Mexican strain seems to be taking a little longer (what would be normally expected; ~1 week).

Due to the larger grow and outside placement, some techniques to mask the presence of the plants are being employed. With a background in biochemistry, organic chemistry, and botony, the masking techniques are rather specific for this purpose and scientifically the most effective against most detection techniques. More information and images to follow once everything is well established.

[Cede2Weed]

looking forward to it

[stinkyattic]

Due to the larger grow and outside placement, some techniques to mask the presence of the plants are being employed. With a background in biochemistry, organic chemistry, and botony, the masking techniques are rather specific for this purpose and scientifically the most effective against most detection techniques. More information and images to follow once everything is well established.THIS I can't wait to see. Welcome back! This is a nice surprise!

[Delta9Haze420]

Thanks for the comments. Lol --> stinky. I'm sure you would love to see this cloaking strategy ;). I am debating on whether or not revealing the entire plan is a good idea, but some things should be easy enough to explain without losing integrity in grow security.

As a teaser - As everything is outdoor, a UV/Vis stealth technique was suggested to mask the reflectivity of the plants, and there are several species of plants that, when combined, completely mask the reflective signature of the grow. Whether or not these plants will be deleterious to the grow is yet to be determined however. The chances of being overflown by UV/Vis equipment are not terribly high, but this is near an airport where interdiction flights originate, so better safe than sorry. The visible shading is probably more beneficial than the reflectivity, as it looks to be impossible to tell with a naked eye further than 6 feet away that anything is there but local or floral plants.

As for imaging, there are a couple of week 1 pics that I thought I would share. These are ~9 days post germination - strain is NL. They are representative of the whole grow, as almost all the other seedlings are at the same stage and health. These were chosen due to the accessibility of the setup, and the best images were of the NL.

More to come soon, and as the grow continues I will update with images and more info on the cloaking... Hope you enjoy :jointsmile:

[Delta9Haze420]

Following are some images from ~14 days post germination. Several of the plants have their 3rd node (or 4'th), while some of them (notably Durban Poison) are still at their first and second. It seems that DP is a slightly slower strain than the NL in an outdoor environment, although DP is widely known for hardiness in extreme conditions (so say fans of DP anyway). Though they have had a slow start, the DP has had less sun and a comparatively harsher environment than the NL (not by much though). Still, all are healthy and seem happy, regardless of maturity. Once they get a bit bigger, I plan to LST them just a little. A few were hit by pests recently, and have some scars, but that problem has been dealt with. Pics... NL, NL, DP, DP.

[Delta9Haze420]

OK so there have been some pretty big problems in the last few weeks. Here is a short overview, and I would like some input and advice as best anyone can offer. I am pretty sure the plants expereinced Mg deficiency, due to chlorosis and vein banding. Mg was added (Epsom salts) and this corrected the symptoms that had been associated with Mg problems (as mentioned above). However, the plants seem to have stunted growth, and are not elongating much between nodes (it is as if they are rosetting). I know some nute problems can cause this but I thought I'd ask around as see what you all think. For the last few weeks the plants have only grown about 1 inch in height while producing 2-3 nodes. The newer leaves are healthy and are not suffering from any obvious Mg problems as earlier, however they are stunted in growth (very very slow vertical growth).

***IMPORTANT*** For some reason the plants began to preflower and flower, and now all of the males are cut, leaving only females. The flowers are about 2 weeks into fowering though, and I am worried that the veg growth has been permanantly stunted by early flowering. These were all grown outdoors and I can't figure out why the early flowering appeared unless due to shade of nearby folliage. Any ideas as to why these plants would flower so early outdoors? Strains Northern Lights, Big Bud, Durban Poison. These are all supposed to be good outdoor strains and hearty.

Following are some pictures (sorry, image quality not as good as usual, these were taken with a BlackBerry as opposed to usual camera).

What would cause this rosetting (stunted growth), how can I increase verticle growth and more bud sites, how can I prevent the early flowering from having too much deleterious effect on the grow, etc? I considered Chleated Manganese, however I don't have access to any at present (besides possibly a lab, I'm not sure if they would have it). If there are any chemicals needed, please let me know what they are and where readily available sources are (I have some access to a University Lab if that helps). I also considered the possibility that the pH is too high. These are all in soil, and I am wondering what would be the best agent to lower pH, if infact pH is causing rosetting (which I suspect). Would the flowering also cause stunted growth vertically? The only chemical compound from the lab I have right now is CaCO3 (Calcium Carbonate) - however this is usually used to raise pH and won't help me (this is left over from a previous grow in which the soil was too acidic).

All help appreciated! Thanks!!!
Stinky, if you can weigh in, I'll love you forever!

[stinkyattic]

You already do ;)
Was the Mg applied as a foliar or watered-in, and what was the app rate?
I gotta run for a min; brb

[Delta9Haze420]

You already do ;)
Was the Mg applied as a foliar or watered-in, and what was the app rate?
I gotta run for a min; brb

Lol, true, true :jointsmile:.

Mg was titrated to 15% solution in DiH2O; initially foliar fed then watered in. The plants rebounded nicely from the low Mg symptoms. Now I'm worried mainly about high pH and a possible Manganese problem... I don't wanna just go grab one of those bottles of 12 molar HCL and pour it in, ya know? :thumbsup:

[stinkyattic]

You don't have to titrate it to get a %w/w number. 150g/L is a 15% solution w/w. That's quite high. MY carpool is here; back to you later.

[Delta9Haze420]

Here are a few pics - as you may be able to tell they are short and have some flowering activity. Attempting to lengthen photoperiod by moving plants. Crossing my fingers that I can correct for verticle growth. I dont want them filling up at only 1.5 feet. Some of the newer leaves have reverted to 3 leaflets as opposed to 5, especially near the top. Most of the middle leaves are still either 5-7.

[jakezking]

Delta9Haze420, I have the same problem with my single plant. She started flowering after only about 1 month of vegitative stage. Since my grow is fairly simple at this point - only MG soil and some Superthrive every other watering - I am thinking my early flowering is due to only about 10 hours of direct sunlight per day with remaining sunlight being indirect, shaded by my house. Seems like a few folks have provided me the above answer. It plainly appears you know well more than I about growing, but thought I'd toss my bits onto the table. I'll be anxiously following this thread now, as I am hoping to find an answer to allow me to get more from my 1 plant.

Good luck, my friend!

[Delta9Haze420]

I am thinking my early flowering is due to only about 10 hours of direct sunlight per day with remaining sunlight being indirect, shaded by my house.

Good luck with your grow jake! I was dismayed a bit to say the least when I saw some of these preflowers, however, most of them turned female, and most survived, so I am withholding any major complaints at this time :thumbsup:...

These are also exposed to ~10 hours direct light per day, however indirect lighting is usually enough to maintain a long enough photoperiod to prevent flowering (in the past I've never come across this problem with indirect light as long as there was *enough* indirect light). The previous grow with Kali Mist as the primary strain was produced similarly with the same natural lighting conditions (although at an alternate location until the last month of veg and into flowering). As mentioned I plan on increasing the photoperiod by reducing the indirect light (thus increasing direct) as much as I can (though this is tough due to the aforementioned stealthing techniques I touched on earlier in the thread). It looks like it may be a compromise between stealth and sunlight...

In regard to the leaves, does anyone have any sugestions or experience to give me an idea why the fan leaves (and flower leaves) have reverted back to 3 leaflets each as opposed to 5-7? This is more of a problem on a few of the younger DP, but has hit the NL as well. My best guess is that stress on the plants caused them to revert to early lifecycle production of fan leaves. This probably due to Mg problems as well as lighting and pH. I'll stay away from going off the deep and and saying they all had point mutations in their DNA causing growth inversion for the time ;).

Finally, anyone want to suggest the best way to lower the pH in a soil medium considering the plants are prematurely flowering and recovering from strain?

Thanks all!

[Shovelhandle]

I almost remember <G> when I tried to reveg an indoor plant outdoors it had smooth unserated leaves with three fingers. I don't know what this has to do with your grow though. Good luck.

Shov

[Delta9Haze420]

I almost remember <G> when I tried to reveg an indoor plant outdoors it had smooth unserated leaves with three fingers. I don't know what this has to do with your grow though. Good luck.

Shov

*scratching head* ... ???

[Delta9Haze420]

Just for fun in this thread from now on I'd like to tally how stoned everyone is when they post (if they are infact stoned)...

//slightly baked


I am leaning toward taking a few clones from this grow to go through winter as well as adding a few late seedlings... We'll see what happens...

[stinkyattic]

Reversion to a lower leaf number happens under stress or during flower time.
Read the sticky in plant problems on flushing. That's how to lower your soil pH. You'll need some pH down, or whatever you can scavenge... Don't use HCl. HNO3 or H3PO4 are correct. Same for pH up; NaOH is harmful and KOH is good. What do the 3 'good' ones have in common? You know the answer to this one.
Let me guess... does your cloaking method involve crab grass? lol! If not, get it out of your pots PRONTO. :D
For the record: I rarely post stoned. Medicated to a very low level, perhaps, but if I wouldn't go to work like that, I won't try to answer grow questions like that. To me, it's the same.
Try not to over-think your outdoor plants. You still have 5 months to harvest. The flower response, even if it IS a false start and not just preflowering, isn't anything to worry about. There are 3 months to the time when outdoor plants flower in earnest; relax!

[Delta9Haze420]

Here are a couple of apical shots from the top of a lady NL. This is what I meant when I didn't understand why they started to flower in a summer setting outdoors in midlatitudes... You can see the early flowering; however, since things were changed a bit, they haven't seemed to flower any further (although their growth is also quite slow). It is almost as if they are half in flower, half in veg, and can't decide (which could very well be the case I suppose). I am assuming this is due to the stress of putting so much energy into flowering before it was time along with the nute problems aforementioned (now solved to the best of my knowledge). Hopefully they will revert back to mostly veg and get a little taller...

[jakezking]

I thought I was high, until I read your upper level discussion - I had to lay on my back upon the earth and look up into the clouds too witness your banter. I may have gleaned something from your exchange, but it may have just been the fresh-baked southern-style biscuit with butter and buttery syrup.

I'm still following your grow, bro. Sounds like I needed to flush my bucket and watch my ph too.

Aloha

[Delta9Haze420]

I thought I was high, until I read your upper level discussion - I had to lay on my back upon the earth and look up into the clouds too witness your banter. I may have gleaned something from your exchange, but it may have just been the fresh-baked southern-style biscuit with butter and buttery syrup.

I'm still following your grow, bro. Sounds like I needed to flush my bucket and watch my ph too.

Aloha

Haha - well thanks, and sometimes those biscuits are exactly what I'm diggin for (sound pretty damn good right now infact)! Stink and I can go a little overboard; it all comes from too much schooling :jointsmile:. It tends to help us (especially her) explain the science to people I think, but sometimes we just end up in what aren't much more than inside jokes to chemists/biologists/etc resulting in mostly unintelligible giberish :D. I had a good laugh over it though, and she seems to like taking those shots with me in our chats and emails - always a pleasure...

Best luck on your Queen and others, I am quite excitedly watching the logs.

More pics soon, some with detailed images of the funky leaf morphology I am starting to notice, as well as some verticle growth measurements for comparison to what would be expected. Maybe even a couple shots from the archive just for eye candy if I have the time to dig a few out! Good luck all and "I say 'Of,' you say 'A,' I say 'Revolution,' you say JAH!"

May Jah be with me - and watch over us tonight...

[stinkyattic]

^^GREAT track^^^

Got yer email; wish I had more time to reply- I'm in the process of breaking down a grow that HAS to go :abduct: by the first week in July. Nothing like driving around with a car full of live to really brighten your weekend and make ya feel like you just swallowed a handful of very active worms... I swear my life is starting to resemble a whole SEASON of Weeds, but with significantly less attractive actors, and more plot twists. Arrgh. Check your messages; I'll catch ya in a sec.

[jakezking]

D9, I am looking forward to some pics, as a lot of the time when I am reviewing your thread and posts, I need the illustrations - I feel like a beginner reader who looks at the pictures to help understand the text! And, never fear about your dialogue with Stinky - reading such higher levels of discussion will eventually lead me to an understanding.

Thanks for your comments within my log. I can always use experienced eyes helping me see things more clearly.

And, I don't mean to hijack your log to provide a statement to Stinky - but, Stinky, I hope your life slows down. Although Weeds is an incredible show, it wouldn't be nearly as funny if it were real.

Take good care out there, D9, and may Jah be with you and yours, my friend!

[Delta9Haze420]

Here are a few relatively recent pulls from the project. Notice the delayed growth and the early flowering, especially in the DP. There is also an interesting little side growth on one of the DP ladies that I am including. The leaf structure and morphology is strange on it, and I suspect there may be some health issues with it - but it looks like it will produce flowers so I am not complaining. Disappointing to me that this got set back and growth was screwed up in the middle of the season, but better to salvage what is left than abort I say...

In order:

One of the DP ladies Apical stems showing flower growth
The side shoot coming from a DP
Top down view of one of the NL
Side/angle view of another NL
View along stem of NL showing some flowering throughout

[jakezking]

D9, those NLs do have a wicked looking leaf pattern with single leaf structure? I haven't seen too much in my time, but I don't know that I've ever seen that. She appears healthy though. As always, I am interested in watching you and Stinky identify the cause of this structuring, as well as watching these ladies continue to grow.

I wish you much luck, my friend. Be good out there!

[Delta9Haze420]

Well last night I lost my primary external hard drive (500GB), which stores most of the data used for posting here. I expect to have the data recovered within two weeks, but will attempt to update some while recovery takes place. I had intended on some new images, but those were on the EHDD and thus need to be recovered. Today I noticed a pest problem on one of the NL; some of the leaves near the apical cola were somewhat chewed up (only a few), but I found the little bugger and disposed of him with extreme prejudice. I then put on some organic (garden safe) multicide to prevent any further pest problems including spider mites, mold, and insects. Shouldn't be too much of a problem as it was caught fairly early. I'll try to get some images up here soon, as well as more details. Till then, happy gardening all...

[greenatik]

definitely looks to be reveggin :thumbsup:

[jakezking]

D9, I'm sorry to read of your recent past bad luck, but know things will look up for you. You seem a very resourceful and resilient individual, so I know you will bounce back stronger than ever, with improving luck. I'm glad to hear you dealt with you insect issues -
disposed of him with extreme prejudice.I have some pest issues that I will study up on how to dispose of them - I really can't blame the insects from eating on our ladies. If I were a bug, I would eat trichomes as if they were ice cream cones!

I'm looking forward to new pictures and progress report. Hope all else is well with you and yours, bro! Be good out there!

[Delta9Haze420]

D9, I'm sorry to read of your recent past bad luck, but know things will look up for you. You seem a very resourceful and resilient individual, so I know you will bounce back stronger than ever, with improving luck. I'm glad to hear you dealt with you insect issues - I have some pest issues that I will study up on how to dispose of them - I really can't blame the insects from eating on our ladies. If I were a bug, I would eat trichomes as if they were ice cream cones!

I'm looking forward to new pictures and progress report. Hope all else is well with you and yours, bro! Be good out there!

Thanks for the kind words, j!

No doubt if I were a little critter (assuming I had THC receptors in my brain and could feel the effect) I would be munchin all day long on trichs.

Anywho, I had a spare 160GB pocket HDD so I was able to work off of that for some stuff. There are a few new pics, so I'll caption them in the order they load...


NL from an angle. It is obvious that growth was slowed, but it is still climbing...
NL along stem showing flowers; possibly a hermie(?) from stress
DP - what was last week a little twig shoot is now exploding
DP view of some flowering, fairly advanced for this time of year

[hatch]

Looking Awesome Bro!!!Good Luck With Them Outside!!!!It Rough Out In The Element!!!!:rastasmoke::rastasmoke::rastasmoke: